Talk:Lord Richard Cecil and Minerva McGonagall (character): Difference between pages

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{{HP Character|

{{WPBiography|class=B}}

image= [[Image:Minerva cs.jpg|220px|Professor Minerva McGonagall]] <br /><small>[[Maggie Smith|Dame Maggie Smith]] as Minerva McGonagall <br/>in ''[[Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets (movie)|Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets]]'' |

== Date of death ==

bgcolor=#C00|

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name=Minerva McGonagall|

gender=Female|

hair=[[Black hair|Black]]|

eyes= |

house=[[Hogwarts houses#Gryffindor|Gryffindor]]|

blood= |

allegiance=[[Order of the Phoenix]], <br />[[Hogwarts]]|

patronus=|

portrayer=[[Dame Maggie Smith]]|

appearance=''[[Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone]]''

}}

'''Professor Minerva McGonagall''' is a [[fictional character]] in the ''[[Harry Potter]]'' book series written by [[J. K. Rowling]]. At the beginning of the stories she is [[Head teacher|Deputy Headmistress]], head of [[Hogwarts houses#Gryffindor|Gryffindor House]], and the [[Hogwarts subjects#Transfiguration|Transfiguration]] professor at [[Hogwarts|Hogwarts School of Witchcraft and Wizardry]], where she began teaching in [[December]] [[1956]]. McGonagall considers Transfiguration to be among the most complex and dangerous [[Magic (Harry Potter)|magic]] taught at Hogwarts.

Minerva McGonagall is acting Headmistress of Hogwarts School of Witchcraft and Wizardry, succeeding her esteemed colleague [[Albus Dumbledore]] upon his death. It is not yet clear, however, if the school will reopen after the death of Dumbledore. She is still a member of the [[Order of the Phoenix (organisation)|Order of the Phoenix]].

to : Couter-revolutionary, Sussexman, Robert I, Olborne etc etc etc

Her given name comes from [[Minerva]], the [[Roman mythology|Roman]] [[goddess]] of wisdom. Her surname comes from that of a 19th century [[Dundee, Scotland|Dundee]] eccentric, [[William Topaz McGonagall]], <ref>[http://www.quick-quote-quill.org/articles/1999/1099-connectiontransc.html J.K. Rowling interview transcript, The Connection (WBUR Radio), 12 October, 1999]</ref> considered one of the worst poets in the English language.

You have given Lord Richard's date of death as 27 April 1978. I have always had my doubts about the accuracy of that date, although a reference is cited. For one thing, his obituary appeared in The Times on 22 April 1978 (see [[P. K. van der Byl]] reference number 57). Maybe The Times knew something that Lord Richard didn't?.

McGonagall is played by [[Dame Maggie Smith]] in the ''Harry Potter'' film adaptations.

That apart, do you think that describing ZANLA as "terrorists" is entirely neutral?. I mean, it leads into this argument about one man's terrorist being another man's freedom fighter.<br>

==Character description==

best wishes<br>

McGonagall is described as a tall, rather severe-looking woman, with black hair typically drawn into a tight bun, only letting her hair down once at the Yule Ball. She wears emerald green robes, a pointed hat that is crooked on one side and always has a very prim expression. She is, according to Rowling, a "sprightly" 70 year old.<ref> [http://www.accio-quote.org/articles/2000/1000-scholastic-chat.htm Scolastic Chat]. accio-quote.org.</ref> She also has a fondness for tartan patterns, apparently derived from a [[Scotland|Scottish]] heritage; even her dressing gown and biscuit tin have [[tartan]] patterns. She wears square spectacles which match the markings around the eyes of her [[Animagus]] form of a silver [[tabby cat]]; McGonagall is an Animagus &mdash; a witch or wizard who is able to transform into an [[animal]] at will, and the first one to be introduced in the series. She is one of the few Animagi of the century.

Stern, snappy, and generally reserved, Professor McGonagall has nonetheless been shown to have in mind the best interests of the students at Hogwarts, her wards in Gryffindor, and [[Harry Potter (character)|Harry]] himself. McGonagall is also one of [[Albus Dumbledore]]'s staunchest supporters and is still a member of the [[Order of the Phoenix (organisation)|Order of the Phoenix]].

Bob [[User:BScar23625|BScar23625]] 19:06, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

==Role in the series==

ps. I think he was actually killed on 20 April : [http://pages.prodigy.net/ptheroff/gotha/salisbury.html Cecil]

Minerva McGonagall is first introduced in the opening chapter of ''[[Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone]]'', when she meets Albus Dumbledore at Number 4 Privet Drive, [[Little Whinging]], [[Surrey]] (the home of Harry Potter's aunt and uncle). It is immediately demonstrated that she is an [[Animagus]], as she has waited on a brick wall all day in the form of a tabby cat. In this chapter, Professor McGonagall's personality is summarised: her caring side (she is worried when Dumbledore reveals his plans to leave Harry Potter, fresh from [[Lord Voldemort]]'s devastating attack, with the Dursley family, his only living relatives); her snappy, brusque side (she criticises a number of people, including [[Rubeus Hagrid]]); and ultimately, her intelligence (to become an Animagus is very difficult, and can sometimes take years to master the magic). [[Image:Hp3 11mcgonacat.jpg|thumb|200 px|right|Prof. McGonagall in her animal form in ''[[Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone (movie)|Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone]]'']] As Deputy Headmistress, McGonagall is the member of staff who runs the [[Sorting Hat|Sorting Ceremony]] at Hogwarts. Harry's immediate impression of her is of someone who is not to be crossed. Throughout the series, McGonagall is the professor of Transfiguration at Hogwarts, a subject which she sees as complex and elegant. She is infamously known for giving vast amounts of homework and for tolerating no misconduct of behaviour during her classes.

McGonagall, in her capacity as Head of Gryffindor House is very keen on the success of the house [[Quidditch]] team. In the first book, after seeing Harry fly masterfully his very first time on a broom, she recommends him to fill the position of [[Seeker]], even though as a first year student he would not normally be allowed a broom. Also, in the first film, a plaque for the Gryffindor Quidditch team reads M.G. McGonagall, suggesting that at least in the canon of the films she was a member of the team. Furthermore, although a strict disciplinarian, she often assists Harry indirectly with activities that are not strictly within the rules of Hogwarts: for example, allowing Harry and his friends to use the Transfiguration classroom to practice for tasks in the [[Triwizard Tournament]]. Despite her stern front, McGonagall has been known to display a range of emotions when either unaware of observation or overcome by feeling.

I quite agree with you on the issue of the date of his death. I also believe we can safely say that, at the time, those who killed Lord Richard were most certainly terrorists and most definitely rebels. May I ask why your comment was addressed to a plethora of users who do not even seem to have edited this page. Yours &c., --[[User:Couter-revolutionary|Couter-revolutionary]] 11:47, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

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''Couter-revolutionary.''

Professor McGonagall is a member of the Order of the Phoenix, a fact revealed to Harry in ''[[Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix]]'', and warns Harry not to provoke [[Dolores Umbridge]], who works for the [[Ministry of Magic]]. Nevertheless, she and Umbridge seemed to have a mutual dislike for each other, as Umbridge continuously usurped more and more power from the staff and from Dumbledore and McGonagall in particular. McGonagall attempted to stop Umbridge and her fellow Ministry officials from unjustly taking Hagrid away by force, and paid for it when she was hit by four [[Stunning Spell]]s. Taken from the school to [[St Mungo's Hospital for Magical Maladies and Injuries|St Mungo's]], she returned to the school some time after the battle at the Ministry for Magic, though she temporarily used a [[walking stick]] to support herself. When Umbridge attempted to leave the school unnoticed, [[Peeves]] borrowed the walking stick to chase Umbridge gleefully from the premises (along with a sack of [[chalk]]). Professor McGongall is heard to say that she would have also chased her out if Peeves hadn't taken her walking stick.

After the death of Albus Dumbledore at the hands of [[Severus Snape]] in ''[[Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince]]'', she again became the acting Headmistress of Hogwarts. Whether she will continue to hold the post of Headmistress is not yet apparent at the conclusion of that book, especially since she and others question whether Hogwarts will even stay open. Still, several quotes from characters and events have hinted that she will indeed become the next Head of Hogwarts. For example, Hagrid refers to her almost immediately after Dumbledore's death as the ''Headmistress''. Minerva also tells Harry to go to "her" office. The office she took him to was the Headmaster/Headmistress' office. If McGonagall does indeed continue in the position, she will need to appoint a new Deputy Head, Head Of Gryffindor House and Transfiguration Professor.

''The Rory Peck Trust website places his death on 27 April. I am pretty sure that must be incorrect. But the 27 April date has been picked up and used by a few people. This illustrates how an error, once made, can become widely accepted as fact.''

With the departure of Severus Snape, she will also have the duty to appoint a new Defence Against The Dark Arts Professor and Head of Slytherin House. The post of Potions Master was taken over by [[Horace Slughorn]] in the first term, and he filled in as Head of Slytherin House when Severus Snape fled after killing Dumbledore. However, Slughorn only initially agreed to return to Hogwarts for one year, he may leave before the next school year starts. The position of Head of Gryffindor is also unclear: the fourth senior teacher present in the Headteacher's office at the end of ''Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince'' was Hagrid, a former Gryffindor, leading to speculation that McGonagall will appoint him as her replacement in Gryffindor. However, he is not a very competent wizard, having been expelled in his third year.

''Whether or not ZANLA can be described as "terrorists and rebels" is open to debate. For one thing, the UDI regime they were fighting against was widely described as "rebel". Who were the rebels?. The use of the word "terrorists" indicates disapproval, which is not neutral.''

Though injured by four stunning spells in ''[[Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix]]'', McGonagall is an exceptional duelist, capable of holding her own against much younger and more agile [[Death Eaters]], as seen in ''[[Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince]]''. [[Madam Pomfrey]] also comments on Minerva's impressive power and skill as a witch, remarking that "As if [[Dolores Umbridge]] and her Minions could have Stunned Minerva McGonagall face on by daylight! Cowardice, that's what it was...Despicable cowardice." She was also able to come out of the fight against the Death Eaters in the sixth book with only tattered robes.

''As regards this matter of identities ... well, I have mentioned before that you are welcome to e-mail me. My e-mail address is on my user page.''

==Other Media==

''best wishes''

Minerva McGonagall appeared in the ''[[Robot Chicken]]'' episode "[[Password: Swordfish (Robot Chicken episode)|Password: Swordfish]]" voiced by [[Emma Caulfield]]. She teaches a class as Harry and Ron worry about the puberty creature Pubertis getting to them.

==References==

''Bob'' [[User:BScar23625|BScar23625]] 13:18, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

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== External links ==

== Use of the word "terrorist" ==

*[http://www.hp-lexicon.org/wizards/mcgonagall.html Minerva McGonagall] at the [[Harry Potter Lexicon]].

{{hpw|Minerva McGonagall}}

<!-- WIKIPEDIA IS NOT A PLACE FOR SPECULATION OR PREDICTIONS. Please see the talk page before editing this box. Wikipedia is not a crystal ball. CITE YOUR SOURCES. Do not include names here unless you can back it up with proof -->

{{harrypotter}}

I really don't think the use of "terrorists" implies disapproval or bias. The IRA, for instance, would never be described as anything other than terrorists on Wikipedia. --[[User:Couter-revolutionary|Couter-revolutionary]] 17:11, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

{{Harry Potter characters}}

{{DEFAULTSORT:McGonagall, Minerva}}

''Couter-revolutionary. Is that so?. Take a look at [[Provisional Irish Republican Army]] or any of the associated pages. I don't see the IRA described as terrorists anywhere, although I might be overlooking something. As an aside, the people who ran the IRA in the 70s and 80s are now being ushered into the corridors of power to almost universal approval. Nobody calls them terrorists nowadays. Bob'' [[User:BScar23625|BScar23625]] 17:31, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

[[Category:Fictional principals]]

[[Category:Fictional schoolteachers]]

[[Category:Fictional Scottish people]]

[[Category:Fictional shapeshifters]]

[[Category:Fictional witches]]

[[Category:Gryffindors]]

[[Category:Hogwarts employees]]

[[Category:Hogwarts Headmasters and Headmistresses]]

[[Category:Order of the Phoenix]]

[[ar:منيرفا مكجونجال]]

* Perhaps this is something that needs corrected, although it is described as "paramilitary", which is as good as and also is linked to the category of "Terrorists". The IRA are still very much seen as terrorists, and so are there former leaders, amongst those from a Unionist background. Just because some of their members are now politicians it does not justify their past terrorist actions, I believe the same is true of Rhodesia.--[[User:Couter-revolutionary|Couter-revolutionary]] 00:08, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

[[bs:Minerva McGonagall]]

[[cs:Minerva McGonagallová]]

''Couter-revolutionary. Your final sentence confirms my view that use of the word "terrorist" implies disapproval. Whatever the rights and wrongs of the matter are, I don't think you will find much support among the Wikipedia community for describing particular participants in the former conflicts in Northern Ireland and Zimbabwe as terrorists. Bob'' [[User:BScar23625|BScar23625]] 06:48, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

[[da:Minerva McGonagall]]

[[de:Figuren der Harry-Potter-Romane#Minerva McGonagall]]

Perhaps you are right, but then again, that does speak volumes for Wikipedia.

[[el:Μινέρβα ΜακΓκόναγκαλ]]

[[es:Minerva McGonagall]]

''Couter-revolutionary. Maybe Wikipedia just reflects a wider consensus?. See the August Telegraph article [http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/08/28/ntory28.xml "David Cameron ... declared that Margaret Thatcher had been wrong to describe Nelson Mandela and the African National Congress as terrorists during the ... 1980s"] Bob'' [[User:BScar23625|BScar23625]] 10:09, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

[[et:Minerva McGonagall]]

[[fr:Minerva McGonagall]]

I don't think there is any need for Wikipedia to become a populist voice, and nor do I think David Cameron reflects that Populous. Anyway this verbose badinage is academic, what I feel is crucial is that, at the time Lord Richard was murdered he was killed by terrorists acting against the government of Rhodesia.--[[User:Couter-revolutionary|Couter-revolutionary]] 11:06, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

[[hr:Minerva McGonagall]]

[[id:Minerva McGonagall]]

''Couter-revolutionary. How can you possibly justify a statement that Lord Richard was "murdered"?. The chap was wearing an army uniform and carrying a rifle at the time of his death. He died an honourable death in battle - and the people who killed him were lawful combatants. This view is even accepted by his family, who have never claimed he was murdered (please correct me on that, if you can).''

[[is:Minerva McGonagall]]

[[it:Minerva McGranitt]]

''A journalist wearing uniform and carrying a weapon takes all the risks of a combatant, but lacks some of the supports which are available to members of the military unit that he/she is attached to. LR was either too contemptuous of the enemy to understand the risks he was taking, or he understood the risks and elected to accept them. Either way, he has no grounds for complaint about his fate. Bob'' [[User:BScar23625|BScar23625]] 12:08, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

[[he:מינרווה מקגונגל]]

[[ms:Minerva McGonagall]]

==Article enhancement==

[[nl:Minerva Anderling]]

[[ja:ミネルバ・マクゴナガル]]

to : Couter-revolutionary, Lightoftheworld, Sussexman, Robert I, Olborne, Isabella84, Christchurch etc etc etc

[[no:Minerva McSnurp]]

[[pl:Minerwa McGonagall]]

I have added some material to this article. Given that you are its creator I thought I should "touch base" with you. LR is an alumni of [[Eton College]], and I am sure there must be a linkage that is appropriate here. Do you think I should consult [[User:Chicheley|Chicheley]], who is the expert on Eton College matters?. Bob [[User:BScar23625|BScar23625]] 19:56, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

[[pt:Minerva McGonagall]]

[[ru:Минерва Макгонагалл]]

* There is a category for Old Etonians, I shall add it, and don't worry I know a fair bit about Eton myself! I think that is all we need. By the way, you have done some very good work. This is now a very good article!--[[User:Couter-revolutionary|Couter-revolutionary]] 20:38, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

[[sl:Minerva McHudurra]]

[[sh:Minerva McGonagall]]

''Couter-revolutionary. Thankyou for that. On another matter, I have just taken the liberty of reverting the recent changes you made to the [[Rhodesia]] article. I did so because those changes contained opinion and serious errors of fact. As indicated earlier, I am more than happy to have a chat with you about Rhodesia/Zimbabawe. best wishes. Bob'' [[User:BScar23625|BScar23625]] 08:08, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

[[fi:Minerva McGarmiwa]]

[[sv:Minerva McGonagall]]

I'm afriad you are mistaken, I do not believe I have made any recent changes to the Rhodesia article. Why do you think I have?--[[User:Couter-revolutionary|Couter-revolutionary]] 08:10, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

[[th:มิเนอร์ว่า มักกอนนากัล]]

[[tr:Minerva McGonagall]]

''Couter-revolutionary. I thought I "recognised the voice". Sorry if I got it wrong. My offer of a chat remains open, if you care to e-mail me. Bob'' [[User:BScar23625|BScar23625]] 08:15, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

[[zh:米奈娃·麥]]

Yes, I'm afraid I only ever edit under my log-in name. Could you also tell me why you have addressed comments to other users, such as [[User:Isabella84]], who hasn't even edited wikipedia since December last year; I'm just interested to know. yours, --[[User:Couter-revolutionary|Couter-revolutionary]] 08:18, 27 October 2006 (UTC) PS, In fact, most of them seem to have stop editing or been banned.

''Couter-revolutionary. There are a group of editors whose pattern of postings appears to be linked and whose voices all sound very similar. I have no problem with that. The internet community accepts that individuals may adopt multiple internet identities, so long as those identities are not used for improper purposes. In your case, my curiosity was aroused - I assure you nothing more than that. Bob'' [[User:BScar23625|BScar23625]] 08:29, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

* Trust me, the only Wikipedia name I have ever edited under is the one I now use. In fact I have rarely encountered these other users as most of the major debate surrounding them seemed to occur over the Summer when I was away. Yes we may say similar things, but so do lots of users on Wikipedia, it doesn't mean we are one at all.--[[User:Couter-revolutionary|Couter-revolutionary]] 08:35, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

''Couter-revolutionary. I am dealing with a gentleman and I will take your word for it. Sorry for the inference and I will not repeat it. Bob'' [[User:BScar23625|BScar23625]] 08:40, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

==Citations tag==

[[User:Mowens35|Mowens35]]. I have added another 4 references to the article. For a short B-Class article, that is adequate. Unless you object, I will remove the tag. regards. Bob [[User:BScar23625|BScar23625]] 19:20, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

ps : as you have not replied, I have taken the liberty of removing the tag [[User:BScar23625|BScar23625]] 08:37, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

== Gravestone ==

[[Zippppo]]. You have added ''Interestingly his headstone bears the "Who Dares Wins" motif of the SAS''. I have never visited his grave, but that just sounds a little "showy" and I wonder if his family would have allowed it?. Can you cite a source or can you show a photograph?. regards. Bob [[User:BScar23625|BScar23625]] 19:14, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

ps : As you have not replied, I have taken the liberty of removing your addition. If you put it back, please cite a source in the article or post a photograph. best wishes. Bob

[[Zippppo]]. Sure he is buried in Cranborne - but that is not a source of information of the kind I invited from you. At the time of his death he was not a serving British soldier and he had previously been a Guards officer. As far as I am aware, he never served with the [[Special Air Service|SAS]]. So what is the logic behind this SAS motif on his grave?. What is the source of your information?. Have you seen the grave yourself?. best wishes. Bob [[User:BScar23625|BScar23625]] 10:16, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

[[User:Zippppo|Zippppo]]/[[User:Couter-revolutionary|Couter-revolutionary]]. Lord Richard was a Grenadier Guards officer, an Old Etonian and his father was a senior member of the House of Lords. These people are dreadful snobs and he would never have allowed the motif of a rag-and-bone outfit like the SAS to be included on his headstone. That said, anything is possible - and if you can provide any evidence, then ... . As regards PK, he may well have labelled blacks as "savages" after the downing of the Hunyani, but he did so on numerous other occasions, not always when he was under the influence of drink. Whatever, I guess that PK's attitude to people of colour is not relevant here. I hope you had a good Christmas. best wishes. Bob [[User:BScar23625|BScar23625]] 15:29, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

[[User Zippppo|Zippppo]]/[[User:Couter-revolutionary|Couter-revoliutionary]]. You now say that the headstone bears ''the "Winged Dagger" emblem of the SAS''. That is not the same thing as the ''Who Dares Wins motif''. What is this winged dagger emblem and are you sure it refers to the [[SAS]]?. I remain unconvinced and still await some indication of your source of information. What is your source of information?. Another consideration is that the [[SAS]] would have objected to use of its official emblem unless the person concerned had died on active service with the regiment. His family would never have ignored such an objection. best wishes. Bob [[User:BScar23625|BScar23625]] 09:11, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

:Dear Bob, I have no opinion on his grave stone inscription as I have not yet seen it. With regards to PK he was terrificaly entertaining, people took his too seriously.--[[User:Couter-revolutionary|Couter-revolutionary]] 11:35, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

[[User:Couter-revolutionary|Couter-revolutionary]]. I am going down there specially to take a look some time in the next two weeks. I will take a photograph of the headstone and post it to the article. I do hope you aren't just winding me up. Bob [[User:BScar23625|BScar23625]] 15:48, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

:Dear Bob, I never made any claim as to the inscription on the headstone. I do, however, await the photograph it shall be interesting to see. My best wishes to you in MMVII.--[[User:Couter-revolutionary|Couter-revolutionary]] 17:35, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

The church warden at St M & B assures me that there are no winged daggers or motifs on the headstone. It will be a few weeks before I can get down there to confirm this in person, but I will remove the relevant statement from the article shortly unless anyone can cite a credible source. Bob [[User:BScar23625|BScar23625]] 15:48, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Righto, I didn't think there would be myself. It would be rather odd!--[[User:Couter-revolutionary|Couter-revolutionary]] 17:58, 16 January 2007 (UTC)