Talk:Gothic rock and Alismatales: Difference between pages

Revision as of 08:16, 24 May 2005

Revision as of 15:40, 13 June 2005

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{{Taxobox_begin | color = lightgreen | name = Alismatids}}

Firstly, I think the redirect should have been to goth music, rather than gothic rock, since gothic rock is a subset of goth music. -- Birchtree

{{Taxobox_image | image = [[Image:Lemna trisulca0.jpg|250px|Lemna trisulca]] | caption = Ivy Duckweed (''Lemna trisulca'')}}

{{Taxobox_begin_placement | color = lightgreen}}

{{Taxobox_regnum_entry | taxon = [[Plant]]ae}}

{{Taxobox_divisio_entry | taxon = [[Flowering plant|Magnoliophyta]]}}

{{Taxobox_classis_entry | taxon = [[Liliopsida]]}}

{{Taxobox_ordo_entry | taxon = '''Alismatales''' <small>Dumort. ([[1829]])</small>}}

{{Taxobox_end_placement}}

{{Taxobox_section_subdivision | color = lightgreen | plural_taxon = Families}}

[[Alismataceae]]<br/>

[[Aponogetonaceae]]<br/>

[[Araceae]]<br/>

[[Butomaceae]]<br/>

[[Cymodoceaceae]]<br/>

[[Hydrocharitaceae]]<br/>

[[Juncaginaceae]]<br/>

[[Limnocharitaceae]]<br/>

[[Posidoniaceae]]<br/>

[[Potamogetonaceae]]<br/>

[[Ruppiaceae]]<br/>

[[Scheuchzeriaceae]]<br/>

[[Tofieldiaceae]]<br/>

[[Zosteraceae]]

{{Taxobox_end}}

The order '''Alismatales''' contains the alismatids, a group of [[monocotyledon]]s (class [[Liliopsida]]). The order contains about 165 genera in 14 families, with cosmopolitic distribution. Most families are comprised of [[herb]]aceous non-[[succulent]] plants. These plants are commonly found in aquatic environmments. The [[flower]]s are usually arranged in [[inflorescence]]s, and the mature seeds lack [[endosperm]].

: OK. When I merge, I tend to remove the smallest article, rather than making complicated decisions about which title is better. Do as ye will. [[User:MyRedDice|Martin]]

Traditionally, the order Alismatales was restricted to contain just three families (Alismataceae, Butomaceae and Limnocharitaceae). The other families were not considered as alismatids, and were assigned to various distinct orders, but this approach produced [[polyphyletic]] groups, and so the whole group of families is now placed into a single order.

Essentially though, such an entry ends up as nothing more than an opinion poll as to which bands are considered to be gothic rock. My vote is for certain parts of this page to be subsumed into the [[Goth]] entry (since the movement and the music are <i>extremely</i> difficult to seperate), and both [[goth music]] and [[gothic rock]] to be set as a redirect to [[Goth]]. -- Birchtree

The [[Petrosaviaceae]] have been placed in this order, but their actual affinity is not so clear. The alismatids have been considered the sister group of the [[Arales]] and the latter are now included here. As a result of this merger, the Araceae became the most important family in the order, accounting alone for over 2000 species in about 100 genera. The rest of families contain together just about 500 species.

: Interestingly, I take the opposite approach: Large chunks of the [[Goth]] article should be moved to [[Gothic music]] or [[Gothic fashion]], as appropriate.

== 90'sSee Gothalso ==

: The music and the fashion and the philosophy are easy to seperate. The fashion aspects of Goth are what you wear. The music aspects of Goth are what you listen to. The philosophical aspects of Goth are what you think. Clearly there are strong links between these aspects, but equally they can be profitably examined individually as well. [[User:MyRedDice|Martin]]

*[[Seagrass]]

== References ==

Well, my point is that if you are to say anything remotely meaningful about the rise of goth, you have to talk about its development as a music scene. The philosophy aspect is something I wouldn't want to touch with a barge-pole because then you really do get into a completely subjective debate about 'what it's all about'. The main thrust of the goth article was to avoid that pitfall and still be informative. -- [[User:Birchtree|Birchtree]]

* [[Barthélemy Charles Joseph du Mortier|B. C. J. du Mortier]] (1829). ''Analyse des Familles de Plantes : avec l'indication des principaux genres qui s'y rattachent'', 54. Imprimerie de J. Casterman, Tournay.

* W. S. Judd, C. S. Campbell, E. A. Kellogg, P. F. Stevens, M. J. Donoghue (2002). ''Plant Systematics: A Phylogenetic Approach, 2nd edition.'' pp. 242-247 (Alismatales). Sinauer Associates, Sunderland, Massachusets. ISBN 0878934030.

[[Category:Alismatales]]

: Well, one can take a holistic view of goth, or a reductionist view of goth. But they don't have to be mutually exclusive: we can have a holistic overview at [[goth]], with more specific articles talking about goth from the perspective of fashion, music, and philosophy/lifestyle/... [[User:MyRedDice|Martin]]

[[da:Skeblad-ordenen (Alismatales)]]

Taken from the article:

[[de:Froschlöffelartige]]

:the solos are more moody & intellectual than aggressive.

[[es:Alismatales]]

Can someone explain this statement? How can a solo be "intellectual"? FWIW, my observation on goth solos are they're generally simple melodies, normally similes of the chorus and less focused on "flashy" playing than hard rock solos. -- [[User:Jimregan|Jim Regan]] 01:32 10 Jul 2003 (UTC)

[[fr:Alismatales]]

[[he:&#1499;&#1507; &#1510;&#1508;&#1512;&#1491;&#1506; (&#1505;&#1491;&#1512;&#1492;)]]

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[[pt:Alismatales]]

[[nl:Alismatales]]

Silly point: since when were Jane's Addiction goth? I know you Do Things Differently in the United States, but not that much! -- Aleph

[[no:Alismatales]]

:They aren't, but I think whoever wrote that thought they had much in common. Feel free to remove them if you want. [[User:Morven|&mdash;Morven]] 18:02, 21 May 2004 (UTC)

== more info just moved in ==

I just transfered a bunch of information concerning gothic music from the [[Goth]] page to this one, since it is more appropriate here. I am kinda burned out from editing the [[Goth]] page, so the info here may still look a bit choppy or half assed. Anyone should feel free to clean it up. If not, I may do it slowly over the next few days or weeks. [[User:Grice|Grice]] 11:41, 31 Oct 2004 (UTC)

==Miscelaneous==

Front 242 is EBM. --[[User:Vininim|vininim]] 20:43, 2 May 2005 (UTC)

== 90's Goth ==

I'm an ex-goth scenester who was pretty involved in the scene in the 90's, and I saw that there's a lot missing about 90's goth in the article, such as mentions of bands like Switchblade Symphony, Sunshine Blind, Bella Morte, the Cruxshadows, Rosetta Stone, etc. These bands were sort of a bridge between the Sisters of Mercy and the modern EBM that everyone's listening to now - electronic, yet still gothy.