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The Indo-Pakistani War of 1947 sometimes known as the '''First Kashmir War''' was a war fought between [[India]] and [[Pakistan]] over the region of [[Kashmir]] from [[1947]] to [[1949]]. It was the first of the many wars fought among the two newly independent nations.
:Hello, you've reached User:Hyacinth, Mikhail Abraham, please edit yourself at the bottom this page. I normally respond quickly on your talk pages, but could be vacationing for a month, you never know.
==Cause==
''If you do not sign messages I have no way of replying to you on your talk page. Please do not carry on conversations with other users on my talk page. That is why you all have talk pages. Thanks!''
The state of [[Jammu and Kashmir]] had been part of India since time immemorial. It was one of a number of Indian states that recognised British paramountcy. Prior to the withdrawal of the British from India, the state came under pressure from both India and Pakistan to join their states. The [[Maharaja]] of Kashmir, [[Hari Singh]] wanted to remain independent and tried to delay the issue. However at the time of British withdrawal the state was invaded by a concentrated force of Pakistani-backed irregulars and regular Pakistani soldiers. This forced him to accede Kashmir to India who promptly rushed into Kashmir and thus the war had started.
==Summary of War==
:My user name is a reference to [[Hyacinth (mythology)]] rather than [[Hyacinth Bucket]].
The AZK had several advantages in the war, notably:
*Prior to the war the Jammu and Kashmir state forces had been spread thinly around the border as a response to terrorist activity, and so were badly deployed to counter a full scale invasion.
*Some of the state forces rebelled and joined the invaders.
*The AZK were also aided by regular Pakistani soldiers who manned some of their units, with the proportion increasing throughout the war.
*British officers may have helped the Pakistanis plan the attack.
As a result of these advantages the main invasion force quickly brushed aside the Jammu and Kashmir state forces. But the attacker’s advantage was not vigorously pressed and the Indians saved the country by airlifting reinforcements. This was at the price of the state formally succeeding to India. With Indian reinforcements the Pakistani / AZK offensive ran out of steam towards the end of 1947. The exception to this was in the High Himalayas sector where the AZK were able to make substantial progress until turned back at the outskirts of Leh in late June 1948. Throughout 1948 many small-scale battles were fought. None of these gave a strategic advantage to either side and the fronts gradually solidified. Support for the AZK forces by Pakistan became gradually more overt with regular Pakistani units becoming involved. A formal cease-fire was declared on [[31 December]], 1948.
==Results of the War==
The independent state of Jammu and Kashmir ceased to exist. The cease fire line has over the years became a de facto division of the country. This has given about one third of the land area to Pakistan and about two thirds to India. The Indians retained control of the relatively wealthy and populous Kashmir Valley, and a majority of the population. In [[1956]], this area became the state of Jammu and Kashmir in the India union.
==Stages of the War==
::'''Archives'''
This war has been split into ten stages by time. The individual stages are detailed below.
:::''Do not leave messages in archive as I am not notified automatically. Leave a message on the bottom of this page.''
*[[User talk:Hyacinth/Welcome]]
*[[User talk:Hyacinth/Music]]
*[[User talk:Hyacinth/Music II]]
*[[User talk:Hyacinth/Identity]]
*[[User talk:Hyacinth/Administration]]
*[[User talk:Hyacinth/Edit summary]]
*[[User talk:Hyacinth/Words of wisdom from someone who's actually SANE]]
----
== Wikipedia:Categorization ==
===Initial Invasion 22 Oct 1947 – 26 Oct 1947 (Op Gulmarg)===
Please see: [[Wikipedia_talk:Categorization#.22An_article_on_a_subject_should_be_in_a_category_of_the_same_name..22]]
[[Image:J&K01low.jpg|Initial Invasion 22 Oct 1947 – 26 Oct 1947 (Op Gulmarg)]]<br>
I hope you would add more explanation to this. Thanks! [[User:JesseW|JesseW]] 01:28, 11 Nov 2004 (UTC)
A large invasion of the Kashmir valley was mounted by the irregular forces, aimed at Srinagar, the capital of Jammu and Kashmir. The state forces were defeated and the way to the capital, ([[Srinagar]]), was open. There was also a mutiny by state forces in favour of the AZK in Domel.
In desperation, Hari Singh, the ruler of Kashmir requested the Indian Government for Indian troops to stop the uprising. The Indians told him that if Singh signed an Instrument of Accession allowing Kashmir to join the Indian Union, only then would India rush in troops for the protection of one of its territories. This, the Maharaja promptly did. Following this accession, the Indian troops arrived and quickly blocked the advance of the invaders, preventing the imminent sacking of Srinigar.
==[[Degree (disambiguation)]] and [[Degree]]==
However, many of the irregular forces went home with their loot after plundering local towns and thus failed to press the attack home. In the Punch valley the Jammu and Kashmir state forces retreated into towns and were besieged.
Thanks for your comments. Please can you adjust these in the way you suggest as and when you are ready. It occurs to me that as I'm tidying links to all the degree articles, I should take these articles into account at the same time. Thanks again, [[User:Icairns|Ian Cairns]] 00:36, 24 Nov 2004 (UTC)
== Article Licensing ==
I've "started" the [[User:rambot|Free the Rambot Articles Project]] which aims to get users to release all of their contributions to the U.S. state, county, and city articles under the CC-by-sa 1.0 and 2.0 license (at minimum) or into the public ___domain if they prefer. A secondary goal is to get those users to release ALL of their edits for ALL articles. I've personally chosen to [[Wikipedia:Multi-licensing|multi-license]] all of the [[User:rambot|rambot]] and [[User:Ram-Man|Ram-Man]] contributions under the [[Creative Commons]] Attribution-Share Alike [[Creative Commons License|License]] so that other projects, such as [[WikiTravel]], can use our articles. I was wondering if you would be willing to multi-license all your contributions (or at ''minimum'' those on the geographic articles) so that we can keep most of the articles available under the multi-license. Many users use the '''<nowiki>{{DualLicenseWithCC-BySA-Dual}}</nowiki>''' template (or even '''<nowiki>{{MultiLicensePD}}</nowiki>''' for [[public ___domain]]) on their user page, but there are other templates for other options at [[Wikipedia:Template messages/User namespace#Licensing Templates|Template messages/User namespace]]. If you only prefer using the [[GFDL]], I understand, but I thought I'd at least ask, just in case, since the number of your edits is in the top 100. If you do want to do it, simply just copy and paste one of the above two templates into your user page and it will allow us to track those users who have done it. For example:
:'''Option 1'''
:<nowiki>I agree to [[Wikipedia:Multi-licensing|multi-license]] all my contributions, with the exception of my user pages, as described below:</nowiki>
:<nowiki>{{DualLicenseWithCC-BySA-Dual}}</nowiki>
'''OR'''
:'''Option 2'''
:<nowiki>I agree to [[Wikipedia:Multi-licensing|multi-license]] all my contributions to any [[U.S. state]], county, or city article as described below:</nowiki>
:<nowiki>{{DualLicenseWithCC-BySA-Dual}}</nowiki>
Or if you wanted to place your work into the public ___domain (which many people do or don't like to do, see [[Wikipedia:Multi-licensing]]), you could replace '''<nowiki>{{DualLicenseWithCC-BySA-Dual}}</nowiki>''' with '''<nowiki>{{MultiLicensePD}}</nowiki>''' -- [[User:Ram-Man|Ram-Man]] 22:41, Nov 25, 2004 (UTC)
== Image copyrights ==
Hi. I noticed that some images that you've uploaded are lacking the copyright details, can you please add them? As far as I understand the system, impilicitically the images are copyrighted to you at the moment, which would technically prevent others from editing them (excluding fair use). See [[Wikipedia:Copyrights]]. If you want them to be freely copied, just put <nowiki>{{pd}}</nowiki> on them. Nice contributions anyway. :) --[[User:Kooo|kooo]] 10:21, Nov 28, 2004 (UTC)
==Unverified images==
Hi! Thanks for uploading the following images:
*[[:Image:Interval_cycles_C1-C4_and_C6.PNG]]
*[[:Image:Iron_Butterfly_In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida_Riff.PNG]]
*[[:Image:Iron_Butterfly_In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida_Riff.mp3]]
*[[:Image:Iron_Man_riff.PNG]]
*[[:Image:Iron_Man_riff.mp3]]
I notice it currently doesn't have an [[Wikipedia:Image copyright tags|image copyright tag]]. Could you add one to let us know its [[copyright]] status? (You can use <nowiki>{{gfdl}}</nowiki> if you release it under the [[GNU Free Documentation License]], <nowiki>{{fairuse}}</nowiki> if you claim [[Wikipedia:Fair use|fair use]], etc.) If you don't know what any of this means, just ''let me know [[User talk:Poccil|at my talk page]]'' where you got the images and I'll tag them for you. Thanks so much. [[User:Poccil|[[User:Poccil|Peter O.]] ([[User Talk:Poccil|Talk]], [[User:Poccil/Automation.js|automation script]])]] 22:03, Dec 10, 2004 (UTC)
P.S. You can help tag other images at [[User:Yann/Untagged_Images]]. Thanks again.
==Missoula Entry==
Hi Hyancinth. Just wanted to let you know I posted a comment to the [[Talk:Missoula, Montana]] talk page, reviving a question that came up some months ago. Hope we can talk it out. -
[[User:Luke Powell|Luke Powell]] 02:39, 16 Dec 2004 (UTC)
==Hello==
Umm ok this is the nuttiest way I've had to try and talk to you but hey it works... Micky I wanted to give you your x-mes presents but I'm going to helena on tuesday but I'll be back for first night, sooo you should give me a call and maybe we can ring in the new year togeather for a bit... ohhh and I can take a few minutes to hop in the sack with your boyfriend. ok I'll check this later to see if you got my message.
~from Janette
== Homophobic Vandalism ==
I have reason to believe that the following are all sockpuppets of each other
[[User:148.136.141.172]], [[User:Rienzo]], [[User:Baffinisland]], [[User:Lady Tara]], [[User:Nasse]]
I believe that one of them recently vandalised your user page
if you wish to add evidence to the arbitration against any of them, you can do so at [[Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Rienzo/Evidence]]
[[User:Cheese Dreams|CheeseDreams]] 01:52, 8 Jan 2005 (UTC)
== Surrealism ==
Please check history before making pronouncements. Thank you. [[User:Stirling Newberry|Stirling Newberry]] 19:54, 8 Jan 2005 (UTC)
I am afraid I find your input so far on this to be both rude and unhelpful. [[User:Stirling Newberry|Stirling Newberry]] 20:11, 8 Jan 2005 (UTC)
That was rude of me and short tempered, I am currently involved in two editor wars and so was inclined to be curt. I do fine work and I should be giving you the benefit of every doubt rather than being snappish.
The problem on Surrealism is very much that there is an active - the word "cult" has been used, but prefer to think of it as a subculture - that thinks of "Surrealism" as Breton's system for social revolution, and thus desires "Surrealism" the page to conform to dogma, rather than the documentable use and influence of the wider movement. I am currently trying to get the article up to the full spectrum of information on Surrealism. [[User:Stirling Newberry|Stirling Newberry]] 20:22, 8 Jan 2005 (UTC)
==[[Modular arithmetic]]==
Thank you for your addition. It had been me who removed the applications part. Now, I am all for applications, and am happy with your recent addition. The reason for my original deletion was that the article had become a huge mess, and among other things the applications section had been inserted right in the middle of the article, before the main idea of the article was even developed :( So I just reverted the article to a much earlier version.
I am not sure I like the place of your external link, looks kind of unnatural, also in that subsection thing. I don't know how to put it better though. Do you think there is a way to put the external link at the very bottom, and make a footnote to it in the applications section? Maybe this is not a good idea, but still, I would like to ask you to take a look again at that external link and see if it can be put in a better way (better place). [[User:Oleg Alexandrov]] 18:52, 17 Jan 2005 (UTC)
:Thanks for fixing my signature. A tilda makes a big difference. [[User:Oleg Alexandrov|Oleg Alexandrov]] 22:40, 17 Jan 2005 (UTC)
==Gay Template==
Please vote your opinion of [[template:gay]]. Thanks. [[User:Apollomelos|Apollomelos]] 19:34, 23 Jan 2005 (UTC)
== One Question ==
Are you a fan of [[Keeping Up Appearances]], i just had to ask.--[[User:Boothy443]] | [[User talk:Boothy443|comhrÚ]] 11:24, 29 Jan 2005 (UTC)
:Ahh i see, no gay connotation indented, i figured it was either that or the flower/bush, i am not to well versed in mythology that far off the surface. Well anyway, mind the pedestrian.--[[User:Boothy443]] | [[User talk:Boothy443|comhrÚ]] 11:36, 29 Jan 2005 (UTC)
==Digital Gay Bashing==
The digital gay bashing you've received is shameful. Where do these people find the time for their hatred? --[[User:Astanhope|AStanhope]] 17:46, 29 Jan 2005 (UTC)
==Surrealism==
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_comment/User:24.168.66.27]
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_comment/User:Daniel_C._Boyer]
I've reached my limit with these two. They behave well enough to avoid sanction and then go back to their nonsense. [[User:Stirling Newberry|Stirling Newberry]] 21:18, 30 Jan 2005 (UTC)
Thanks. [[User:Stirling Newberry|Stirling Newberry]] 01:13, 31 Jan 2005 (UTC)
== Islamic music ==
Hullo Hyacinth,
I'm a musical ignoramus who nevertheless enjoys listening to Arabic, Persian, Afghan, and Indian pop music. All of those are areas that you would probably include under Islamic music. There are, indeed, significant similarities between the musical styles and, I understand, the underlying musical structures (the maqam, the raga, the dastgah).
However, I'm somewhat troubled by the category "Islamic music". I can see the various styles as being linked both by musical contacts BEFORE the Arabs erupted out of Arabia, and by contacts since then ... contacts facilitated by conquest and trade. But I'm not sure that I would describe the music as Islamic per se, given that Muslims, Christians, Hindus, Buddhists, and Parsis were all playing the same kind of secular music. Describing it as Islamic strikes me as somehow just OFF or WRONG.
Except Sufi music, but even that employed widespread "Central Asian" or "Silk Road" styles for Islamic ends.
Also, the usual Wikipedia spelling is Qur'an, not Koran.
Perhaps it would be better to retitle the article as Islam and music?
Or write an article about the commonalities in Silk Road or Central Asian music?
I don't have strong opinions about these matters -- nor do I have the requisite background in music theory to understand web pages like this one:
[http://www.lianrecords.com/pgs/p_m_theory.html]
on Persian musical theory. Let's discuss these things -- and perhaps drag in a few of the sensible Muslims on Wikipedia, like Ifaqeer or Mustafaa. I've worked with them on several Islamic articles and they're both reasonable people. [[User:Zora|Zora]] 05:48, 31 Jan 2005 (UTC)
----
===Indian defence of the Kashmir Valley 27 Oct 1947 – 17 Nov 1947===
Hyacinth, that quote relates to ARAB music, not to your so-called Muslim music. I don't feel that you've really engaged with my concerns.
[[Image:J&K02low.jpg|Indian defence of the Kashmir Valley 27 Oct 1947 – 17 Nov 1947]]<br>
Indian forces, rapidly airlifted to Srinagar managed to defeat the irregular forces on the outskirts of the town. This was partially due to an outflanking manoeuvre by armoured cars. Shattered, the AZK were pursued as far as Baramula and Uri and these towns were recaptured. In the Punch valley the sieges of the loyal Jammu and Kashmir state forces continued. Meanwhile, the troops in Gilgit (the Gilgit Scouts) mutinied and this yielded most of the far north of the state to the AZK.
Would you describe European music as "Christian" music? It was mostly written by Christians, and a significant portion of it was intended for church services. But that doesn't mean that European music is necessarily "Christian".
I like to listen to Indian [[filmi]]. Muslim or Hindu music? The categories just don't apply. It's INDIAN music. [[User:Zora|Zora]] 18:43, 31 Jan 2005 (UTC)
----
=== Attempted link-up at Punch 18 Nov 1947 – 26 Nov 1947===
[[Image:J&K03low.jpg|Attempted link-up at Punch 18 Nov 1947 – 26 Nov 1947]]<br>
The Indian forces ceased their pursuit of the shattered AZK forces and swung south in an attempt to relieve Punch. This was less successful than hoped, because inadequate reconnaissance had underestimated the difficulty of the roads. Although the relief column eventually reached Punch, the siege could not be lifted. A second relief column reached only Kotli and was forced to evacuate its garrison. Mirpur was captured by the AZK and its inhabitants particularly the Hindus were slaughtered.
----
===Fall of Jhanger and attacks on Naoshera and Uri 25 Nov 1947 - 6 Feb 1948===
[[Image:J&K04low.jpg|Fall of Jhanger and attacks on Naoshera and Uri 25 Nov 1947 - 6 Feb 1948]]<br>
The Pakistani/AZK forces attacked and captured Jhanger. They then attacked Naoshera unsuccessfully. In both areas they killed and raped not only Hindus but any muslims who were against them. Other Pakistani/AZK forces made a series of unsuccessful attacks on Uri. In the south a minor Indian attack secured Chhamb. By this stage of the war the front line began to stabilise as more Indian troops became available.
----
===Op Vijay: counterattack to Jhanger 7 Feb 1948 - 1 May 1948===
[[Image:J&K05low.jpg| Op Vijay: counterattack to Jhanger 7 Feb 1948 - 1 May 1948]]<br>
The Indian forces launched a counterattack in the south recapturing Jhanger and Rajauri. In the Kashmir Valley the Pakistani/AZK forces continued attacking the Uri garrison. In the north Skardu was brought under siege by Pakistani/AZK forces.
----
===Indian Spring Offensive 1 May 1948 - 19 May 1948===
[[Image:J&K06low.jpg|Indian Spring Offensive 1 May 1948 - 19 May 1948]]<br>
The Indians held onto Jhanger against numerous counterattacks from the AZK, who were increasingly supported by regular Pakistani Forces. In the Kashmir Valley the Indians attacked, recapturing Tithwail. The AZK made good progress in the High Himalayas sector, infiltrating troops to bring Leh under siege, capturing Kargil and defeating a relief column heading for Skardu.
----
===Operations Gulab and Erase 19 May 1948 - 14 Aug 1948===
[[Image:J&K07low.jpg|Indian Spring Offensive 1 May 1948 - 19 May 1948]]<br>
The Indians continued to attack in the Kashmir Valley sector driving north to capture Keran and Gurais. They also repelled a counterattack aimed at Tithwail. In the Punch Valley the forces besieged in Punch broke out and temporarily linked up with the outside world again. The AZK made good progress in the High Himalayas sector and got to the outskirts of Leh and eventually captured Skardu. However an attempt to take the town of Leh itself was unsuccessful.
----
===Operation Duck 15 Aug 1948 - 1 Nov 1948===
[[Image:J&K08low.jpg|Operation Duck 15 Aug 1948 - 1 Nov 1948]]<br>
During this time the front began to settle down with less activity by either side, the only major event was an unsuccessful attack by the Indians towards Dras (Operation Duck). The siege of Punch continued.
----
===Operation Easy. Punch link-up 1 Nov 1948 - 26 Nov 1948===
[[Image:J&K09low.jpg|Operation Easy. Punch link-up 1 Nov 1948 - 26 Nov 1948]]<br>
The Indians now started to get the upper hand in all sectors. Punch was finally relieved after a siege of over a year. The AZK forces in the High Himalayas, who had previously made good progress, were finally defeated. The Indians pursued as far as Kargil before being forced to halt due to supply problems. The Zoji-La pass was forced by using tanks (which had not been thought possible at that altitude) and Dras was recaptured. The use of tanks was based on experience gained in Burma in 1945.
----
===Moves up to cease-fire. 27 Nov 1948 - 31 Dec 1948===
[[Image:J&K10low.jpg| Moves up to cease-fire. 27 Nov 1948 - 31 Dec 1948]]<br>
Realising that they were not going to make any further progress in any sector, the Pakistanis decided to end the war. A UN cease-fire was arranged for the 31st Dec 1948. A few days before the cease-fire the Pakistanis launched a counter attack, which cut the road between Uri and Punch.
I ended up spending HOURS rewriting the article to make it clear that there's a distinction between regional musical styles and devotional music. I added links to sites with sound samples.
After protracted negotiations a cease-fire was agreed to by both countries, which came into effect. The terms of the cease-fire as laid out in the UNCIP resolution (http://www.mtholyoke.edu/acad/intrel/uncom1.htm) of [[August 13]], 1948 were adopted by the UN on [[January 5]], 1949. This required Pakistan to withdraw her forces, both regular and irregular, while allowing India to maintain minimum strength of her forces in the state to preserve law and order. On compliance of these conditions a plebiscite was to be held to determine the future of the territory. In all, 1,500 soldiers died on each side during the war and Pakistan was able to acquire roughly two-fifths of Kashmir. (http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/war/indo-pak_1947.htm)
I also deleted most of your writing on the Sufis. There was so much in it that was wrong or misleading. There are MANY Sufi orders, not just one, Sufism coalesced rather than being founded in one swell foop, the Mevlevi rituals are not representative of all Sufi rituals, and naats are Punjabi rather than Turkish, as implied by your description of the whirling dervishes.
I set up a link to an unwritten article on [[Sufi music]], which might be worth doing in detail. There would be room there to talk about regional musical styles (Punjabi, Persian, Kurdish, Egyptian, Berber, Turkish, Albanian, etc.) and also about the spread of the various orders, some of which were purely local and some of which spanned continents. Each order would have its own characteristic rituals and musical forms. If you want to write about this, I'd recommend a lot of research and working with Ifaqeer, who IS a Sufi (though he's very quiet about it, in his modest way).
I really don't like being at loggerheads with you, since you strike me as an intelligent and sincere editor, and also because you know a whole heck of a lot more about music theory than I do. There's a lot more to be said technically about the modes and the melismatic vocal styles of Middle Eastern and South Asian music, and I don't even have the vocabulary for it. I hope I haven't pissed you off, and that we can work together productively. [[User:Zora|Zora]] 03:00, 1 Feb 2005 (UTC)
==Hello==
You’re not the only one to get bashed on Wikipedia. Check out my new evil twin [[User:Apollomelos2| Apollomelos2]] who is apparently communist, courtesy on [[User:Noah Peters |Noah Peters]]. lol Later [[User:Apollomelos|Apollomelos]] 00:57, 1 Feb 2005 (UTC)
==Gay templates==
Heya...do you think there's anything in [[:Template:Gay]] that can be usefully reorganized and put into [[:Template:LGBT]] instead? It strikes me that they have a very high potential of duplicating or competing with each other. I'm all for gay topics on Wikipedia, being in the club myself and all, but I also think [[:Template:Gay]], viewed objectively, does a pretty lousy job of what it's trying to do. On merit, LGBT is definitely the '''much''' better of the two...and the more appropriately titled, for that matter.[[User:Bearcat|Bearcat]] 19:57, 1 Feb 2005 (UTC)
==sawt is sout?==
Do you know if the ''sawt'' referenced (to Toumas) as a secular genre at [[Arab music]] is the same thing as the ''sout'' referred to at [[music of Kuwait]] and [[music of Bahrain]]? If so, I don't know which transliteration is better, but they should be standardized. If not (or in any case), good work on your recent improvements to that and [[Muslim music]]! [[User:TUF-KAT|Tuf-Kat]] 22:23, Feb 1, 2005 (UTC)
:I'll change the uses to ''sawt'' then, as my reference uses some odd spellings in other cases, and googling reveals more likely relevant hits for ''sawt'' than ''sout''. [[User:TUF-KAT|Tuf-Kat]] 00:16, Feb 2, 2005 (UTC)
== Salah, Adhan as revised by H. 2/2/05 ==
I had to revert some of your changes to [[salah]] because putting the [[muezzin]] in the [[fard]] sentence was ambiguous (nah, plain wrong). The remaining ones were kinda good.
Actually, work badly needed on [[salah]] is to merge its content with the prayer section of the [[Five pillars of Islam]] article. But if that's not your cup of tea, somebody will.
(Good old [[User:Elpincha|elpincha]] 21:28, 2 Feb 2005 (UTC))
==Categorization==
Greetings! I've left a few notices about regarding categorization of the music articles, but I'm not sure where to put them to get anyone's attention; currently my thoughts are sitting at [[Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Music#Categorization]]. Since you seem to be on a categorization push yourself, I'd appreciate your thoughts. [[User:Mindspillage|Mindspillage]] [[User talk:Mindspillage|(spill yours?)]] 02:41, 5 Feb 2005 (UTC)
==Music clips==
Hello Hyacinth
I'm undertaking a new music project and would invite your comments on my talk page. [[User:UninvitedCompany|The Uninvited]] Co., [[User_talk:UninvitedCompany|Inc.]] 21:27, 7 Feb 2005 (UTC)
== user 155.84.57.253 ==
Hi, I noticed that you banned 155.84.57.253 for vandalism. This IP address has made many uncontested edits, so it would be nice if you could specify which edit(s) in particular provoked the action. Thanks, --[[User:Paraphelion|Paraphelion]] 17:41, 8 Feb 2005 (UTC)
:Thanks for the lookup, I was not aware of that page. I don't know how anyone has the will to police those areas for vandalism. The same user has made what I think are some fairly idiotic edits to [[List of ethnic stereotypes]]. --[[User:Paraphelion|Paraphelion]] 22:47, 8 Feb 2005 (UTC)
== [[:Category:Wikipedia templates]] ==
Please stop listing template talk pages in [[:Category:Wikipedia templates]]. You've misunderstood what that category is for, which is for pages realted to templates on Wikipedia. Templates ''themselves'' should not need to be categorized. - Please help me clean up by undoing your edits. -- [[User:Netoholic|Netoholic]] [[User talk:Netoholic|@]] 23:32, 2005 Feb 18 (UTC)
Because there are hundreds of templates. It is impractical to categorize them when we have [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3AAllpages&from=&namespace=10 this mechanism]. -- [[User:Netoholic|Netoholic]] [[User talk:Netoholic|@]] 05:25, 2005 Feb 19 (UTC)
:But that is one list, not a categorization (many lists?). Wouldn't it be useful to have a list of all music related templates? [[User:Hyacinth|Hyacinth]] 18:20, 19 Feb 2005 (UTC)
:: Sure a -list- is fine, and very common. Don't confuse a category with a list though. For your music templates, create a page somewhere and ''list'' the templates, just don't categorize them. Hopefully the distinction makes sense. -- [[User:Netoholic|Netoholic]] [[User talk:Netoholic|@]] 03:33, 2005 Feb 20 (UTC)
== vandalism? ==
I found someone has removed the content of article [[Musical composition]]. As you were the last to edit it before that, I hope you will fix it, if it was not meant to be like this. --[[User:Blondel|Blondel]] 12:09, 19 Feb 2005 (UTC)
==Good work==
Your recent edits on [[History of music]] were excellent. Good job :) [[User:Raul654|→Raul654]] 23:18, Feb 19, 2005 (UTC)
== Template messages - Informational ==
I see you've created [[Wikipedia:Template messages/Informational]] containing templates for Indian classical music and American roots music. I'm wondering whether these templates shouldn't actually be listed at [[Wikipedia:Navigational templates]] instead (<nowiki>{{Americanrootsmusic}}</nowiki> already is), since their main purpose is ease of navigation between related articles. See also my comment at [[Wikipedia talk:Template messages#Navigational templates creeping into table]]. - [[User:Dcljr|dcljr]] 00:38, 20 Feb 2005 (UTC)
: Pages like this should be under the appropriate Wikiproject only. [[Wikipedia:Template messages]] and its subpages are for more genereic template types, used across many subject areas. -- [[User:Netoholic|Netoholic]] [[User talk:Netoholic|@]] 03:35, 2005 Feb 20 (UTC)
==[[Native American music]]==
Nice work on [[Native American music]] and [[Pueblo music]]. I added a bit more after noticing your source is the same author as a book I recently picked up. Mine's a bit newer than yours, but he doesn't do a tribal breakdown, except for [[Arapaho music]] as an example. I'm not sure why you kept the Zuni and Hopi redirects in the infobox, but I have put them in parentheses to save space and added Arapaho and Navajo links. Is this agreeable to you? [[User:TUF-KAT|Tuf-Kat]] 04:17, Feb 21, 2005 (UTC)
== Thanks for the pleasant greeting ==
Nice to get your friendly welcome message Hyacinth.
It certainly has made me feel a lot friendlier towards this wikithing.
I'm learning how to suppress my outrage at some of the absolute tosh written as authoritative knowledge, and perhaps even begining to enjoy seeing things from other perspectives.
Although I must confess i do have a bit of trouble biting my lip (or should that be keyboard) at some of the more american centric entries - the cowboy/cowhand issue is a case in point.
Hopefully I'll end up a well rounded wikiperson.
I have just spent some time trying to clarify some of the Arts related definitions - the subject is close to my heart (and livelihood)
in particular 'visual art' and 'fine art' there was a lot of guesswork going on on these pages.
then when i got here I noticed that there is a broader issue to do with the arts definitions. not suprising really it is one of the most misunderstood words - if indeed anyone really has an understanding of it.
part of the problem stems from the fact that art seems to mean seperate things for consumers and producers.
it has a specialist proffesional language, perhaps even many, for the producers within the various disciplines, these languages are as important to production as a plumbers or a computer programmers. but these terms are used differently by the consumers such as the historians or the critics, who have a professional language of their own, and then again the terms are used even more hazily by the interested onlookers or art appreciators.
I hope that the few changes that I have made are helpfull. It has made me try to map the landscape of these tricky relationships, perhaps when ive made sense of it ill be able to help iron out some of the really bad mismatches.
There is a real reluctance in the art pages to allow for overlap. for example; the term 'performing arts' does have a specific meaning, but many performing art forms are also visual art forms.
pah... look im sorry to labour this on my first message to you so ill go away and try to bring some clarity to the subject, a little bit at a time.
take care.
[[User:DavidParfitt|DavidP]] 04:02, 26 Feb 2005 (UTC)
== European Classical Music ==
After some thought, I am with your decision to label certain traditions "European", though the more usual phrase for European is "European art music", with proper placement on the disambiguation page, all should be well for the reader looking for "classical music".
Best
[[User:Stirling Newberry|Stirling Newberry]] 23:07, 26 Feb 2005 (UTC)
== [[Myth]] article ==
You "unreverted" the Myth article because you claim that no explanation was given on the talk page. I already explained that CS Lewis is not considered notable and that the only reason Ungtss is listing that there is because of the particular religious spin he wants to put on things, to go along with his longstanding attempt to put religion and Creationism dogma on the [[Deluge (mythology)]] article. You are playing right into the hands of someone who admits his only goal here is to advance Creationism over the so-called "arrogant pseudo-intellectualism" of scientists and mythologists. But I went and added even more explanation to the page, but of course I'm sure that the person harassing me there is going to cause more trouble. [[User:DreamGuy|DreamGuy]] 04:36, Feb 27, 2005 (UTC)
== Cantillation ==
While Mesopotamian music may have cantillation, the [[Cantillation]] article itself had nothing about Mesopotamian cantillation in it. See also is generally reserved for topics related to or which expand on information given in the article. [[User:Jayjg|Jayjg ]]<sup><font color="DarkGreen">[[User_talk:Jayjg|(talk)]]</font></sup> 19:54, 1 Mar 2005 (UTC)
==Template:History by time period==
Please stop adding this template to articles. It is deeply and irrevocably Eurocentric. - [[User:SimonP|SimonP]] 04:02, Mar 2, 2005 (UTC)
:I don't think that list is meant to be exhaustive, and an exhaustive list would have hundreds of eras. - [[User:SimonP|SimonP]] 04:08, Mar 2, 2005 (UTC)
::Yes, though sometimes prehistoric only means "without writing" so some periods of prehistory can also come after periods of history. - [[User:SimonP|SimonP]] 04:19, Mar 2, 2005 (UTC)
:::Also note that [[Template:History of Europe]] has existed for some time, so [[Template:European history by time period]] is not needed. - [[User:SimonP|SimonP]] 04:21, Mar 2, 2005 (UTC)
::::[[Template:History by continent footer]] is great. I'm surprised it didn't already exist. - [[User:SimonP|SimonP]] 05:26, Mar 2, 2005 (UTC)
==How to report/deal with link farming?==
The anonymous user 4.62.127.90 just made a whole long string of edits to various articles to link to different pages all on one site. It's apparent to me that this is nothing more than an attempt to link farm to gett traffic to his own sites. In the past I have removed links on other articles to pages that contained the same copyright notice. I am concerned that we are being gamed here, but don;t know the appropriate place to report this/bring it up for discussion. I thought I'd ask you to see if you had suggestions. [[User:DreamGuy|DreamGuy]] 04:16, Mar 2, 2005 (UTC)
:Thanks for your response on my talk page. [[User:DreamGuy|DreamGuy]] 04:39, Mar 2, 2005 (UTC)
==Maracatu references==
Hi Hyacinth-- just letting you know that I've put back in the references that were added to the [[maracatu]] page because I know those sources and they are legitimate. The book does have an article on maracatu and the Web page is good. In fact I'm glad the person took the trouble to add them. Thanks for the vigilance, though! [[User:Mona-Lynn|Mona-Lynn]] 08:15, 2 Mar 2005 (UTC)
== European Classical Music ==
tell me if you need help arguing for it. I fear that like most "decentrification" proposals it will meet with resistence. [[User:Stirling Newberry|Stirling Newberry]] 12:54, 2 Mar 2005 (UTC)
== The Power of Wikipedia ==
I've been a user with a login for a long time, and finally the other day I saw an obvious error in an entry ([[hum]]) and decided I would quickly fix it. I thought I could do a better job, but due to time constraints I just chopped out the error.
This morning I came to see if I could improve it, and found Hyacinth had redone it very well. I touch an article, someone notices, and improves upon it.
I love this place, and I think I finally "get it".
--[[User:Douglips|Douglips]] 17:02, 3 Mar 2005 (UTC)
== [[Media: A Hard Day's Night modal frame.PNG]] Tag ==
Yes, I agree. When I first started, the difference between <nowiki> {{gfdl}} and {{PD-user}} </nowiki> wasn't apparent to me, but now I see that they are different. I see you have already changed the tag, so I'll go back through my edits to make sure all of same type of mistakes are corrected. Sorry about that.
While we're on the subject, are all governmental images (in the U.S.) released into the public ___domain? I know that all federal works are, but how about images made by states, counties, and cities/towns? It would seem like they would be, but one never knows... Thanks, [[User:Bratsche|Bratsche]] 19:11, Mar 5, 2005 (UTC)
:Ok. I think the fair use tag is used only when an image is copyrighted. Is this the case with the image? I noticed you had a couple images of music, etc. If you don't claim a copyright, then a GFDL would be more approriate, as you orginally stated. I'll tag them for you, if you want. Just let me know. [[User:Bratsche|Bratsche]] 19:27, Mar 5, 2005 (UTC)
::Well, the fair use template states that "the image is copyrighted". But if the song itself is copyrighted, then probably the actual music is too. Is that the case with "A Hard Day's Work" ? [[User:Bratsche|Bratsche]]<sup><font color="DarkOrange">[[User_talk:Bratsche|(talk)</font></sup>]] 20:12, Mar 5, 2005 (UTC)
== Music pictures ==
I'm sorry about replacing those music pictures-- I really should have asked first. I guess you can do whatever you want with the old ones. And I'm going to go through the new ones in the next day or two and add credit to you. --humbly, [[User:Bdesham|bdesham]] 03:40, 11 Mar 2005 (UTC)
==Pitch==
==Military insights gained from the war.==
Pitch is a widely used term in the engineering field in applications that have '''nothing''' to do with music, e.g. in speech compression, digital speech, and speech encryption. Having the only listing for it be to an article which is mostly about the musical meaning is completely implausible. I will write a separate "pitch (sound) article and put it back in the disambig page. [[User:Jnc|Noel]] [[User_talk:Jnc|(talk)]] 13:59, 12 Mar 2005 (UTC)
===On the use of armour===
The use of light tanks and armoured cars was important at two stages of the war. Both of these Indian victories involved very small numbers of AFVs. These were:-
*The defeat of the initial thrust at Srinagar, which was aided by the arrival of 2 armoured cars in the rear of the irregular forces.
*The forcing of the Zoji-La pass with 11 Stuart M5 light tanks.
This may show that armour can have a significant psychological impact if it turns up at places thought of as impossible.
It is also likely that the invaders did not deploy anti-tank weapons to counter these threats. Even the lightest weapons will significantly encumber leg infantry units, so they may well have been perceived as not worth the effort of carrying about, and left in rear areas. This will greatly enhance the psychological impact of the armour when it does appear.
The successful use of armour in this campaign strongly influenced Indian tactics in the 1962 war where great efforts were made to deploy armour to inhospitable regions (although with much less success in that case).
===Progression of front lines===
==Music School==
*It is interesting to chart the progress of the front lines. After a certain troop density is reached progress was very slow with victories being counted in the capture of individual villages or peaks. Where troop density was lower (as it was in the High Himalayas sector and at the start of the war) rates of advance can be very high.
Have you studied music through any music programs? If so, where and how did you enter it? I want to study music, but I'm afraid that since I did not receive any form of formal classical study I will not be accepted. [[User:Jaberwocky6669|Jaberwocky6669]] 23:41, Mar 12, 2005 (UTC)
===Deployment of forces===
*I did not take any music classes in High school though I wanted to. I took 10 years of guitar lessons, but I finally realized that I wanted to play another instrument. I didn't advance too well with the guitar lol. I think I want to play a bowed instrument like a chello or violin.
*The Jammu and Kashmir state forces were spread out in small packets along the frontier to deal with terrorist incidents. This made them very vulnerable to a conventional attack. India used this tactic against East Pakistan in 1971.
==References==
===Major Sources===
*“Operations In Jammu and Kashmir 1947-1948” Ministry of Defence, Government of India, Thomson Press (India) Limited. New Delhi 1987. This is the Indian Official History, and was the major source for this work.
*“The Indian Army After Independence”, by KC Praval, 1993. Lancer International, 1-897829-45-0
*“Slender Was The Thread: The Kashmir confrontation 1947-1948”, by Maj Gen LP Sen, 1969. Orient Longmans Ltd New Delhi.
*“Without Baggage: A personal account of the Jammu and Kashmir Operations 1947-1949” Lt Gen. E. A. Vas. 1987. Natraj Publishers Dehradun. ISBN 81-85019-09-6.
===Other Sources===
*“The Indian Armour: History Of The Indian Armoured Corps 1941-1971”, by Maj Gen Gurcharn Sandu, 1987, Vision Books Private Limited, New Delhi, ISBN 81-7094-004-4.
*“Thunder over Kashmir”, by Lt Col Maurice Cohen. 1955 Orient Longman Ltd. Hyderabad
*“Battle of Zoji La”, by Brig Gen SR Hinds, Military Digest, New Delhi, 1962.
*“History of Jammu and Kashmir Rifles (1820-1956)”, by Maj K Barhma Singh, Lancer International New Dehli, 1990, ISBN 81-7062-091-0.
==See Intervals also==
*[[Indo-Pakistani War of 1965]]
*[[Partition of India]]
[[Category:Indo-Pakistan Wars]]
I'd like your feedback on the [[Interval (music)|Interval]]s entry before I take any further action. [[User:Noetica|Noetica]] has properly taken me to task for substantially revising an article which was on the request-for-discussion list, plus made a number of valid editorial comments. Before I make any more changes to the page, though, I'd like to hear from you, since you made the RFC request. --[[User:Wahoofive|Wahoofive]] 06:41, 13 Mar 2005 (UTC)
[[Category:Kashmir]]
[[Category:1947]]
[[Category:Jammu and Kashmir]]
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