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Don't know what should go here. Talk to me!
:See [[/Archive1]] for older discussion.
Actually, what I meant was, if you'd like to know something. Ask!
I moved the discussion about the province names to the archive because it basically got dry. There are so many articles using the old format that the cost in time of renaming and fixing links would probably be too high, and since a strong (abundant) consensus was not reached, I think we might consider this closed for a while. Feel free to paste the discussion back here if you want to revive it. --[[User:Pablo-flores|Pablo D. Flores]] <span style="font-size: 80%">([[User talk:Pablo-flores|Talk]])</span> 22:18, 27 August 2005 (UTC)
[[User:ZackStone|ZackStone]] 17:50, 9 October 2005 (UTC)
:See [[/Placebox]] for development of the city-town-etc. infobox.
== Translations ==
I just created a stub for our national flower, the [[ceibo]] (actually that's a redirect to [[Erythrina crista-galli]]). I took most of it from the Spanish Wikipedia ([[:es:Ceibo]]). On doing this, and after translating several [[National parks of Argentina]] articles, I realized that we need translators (or at least helpful bilingual people) with a background on botany, zoology, ecology and similar. Otherwise we're missing very good descriptive content. --[[User:Pablo-flores|Pablo D. Flores]] 12:35, 12 August 2005 (UTC)
:Problem is, there are very few of us actually working in ''Argentine related'' articles, not to mention specialist. Besides you and me, there are a couple more with isolated contributions ([[User:Jfa]], [[User:Maberk]], [[User:Qsebas]]) or focused around football ( [[User:Elpincha]], [[User:Sebastiankessel]]), or not into Argentine topics at all ([[User:Luis María Benítez]]). Perhaps it would be wiser to ask for help at some spanish-language-related place? Try perhaps [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Latin America countries]].
:BTW, good work with the [[National Parks of Argentina|National Parks]]. Texts are not so complete, but give a good idea about the topic, and connects to other information sources for those interested in knowing more. -[[User:Marianocecowski|Mariano]] 14:50, 12 August 2005 (UTC)
== [[Hoax]]er is back ==
Known [[Argentina|Argentine]] [[Wikipedia:Vandalism|vandal]] author of [[Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/Rana lechuza|VFD:Rana lechuza]], [[Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/Blue tiger|VDF:Blue tiger]], [[Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/Vandera|VFD:Vandera]], [[Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/Pumpkin spoof|VFD:Pumpkin spoof]], [[Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/Gauchos Pesados|VFD:Gauchos Pesados]], [[Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/Glamorous cumbia|VFD:Glamorous cumbia]] and God knows what else, brought as a new artice: [[Eduardito De La Puentes]]. Please, do not move this page to [[Eduardo de la Puente]] if you would like to ''fix'' it in order match the journalist, but rather create a new article so this can be deleted and the hoax is not kept in the history. Thank you very much, [[User:Marianocecowski|Mariano]] 08:29, 16 August 2005 (UTC)
== Nomination for adminship ==
People, I propose we nominate Mariano for adminship. He has the experience and the required # of edits to be an admin, besides, it will come useful for all the edits he's doing. See here [[Administrators]].
If we get some kind of agreement in this page, I'll propose the nomination on [[Requests_for_adminship]].
--[[User:Sebastiankessel|Sebastian Kessel]] 16:49, 22 August 2005 (UTC)
:Wow, let's first ask Mariano if he wants to be an Admin! :o)
:I've been reading a bit about what does it mean to be an [[Wikipedia:Administrators|Admin]]. Basically its just an user with the ability of ''deleting articles and uploaded files, protecting and unprotecting pages and blocking and unblocking IP addresses''([[Wikipedia:Administration FAQ|FAQs]]); that is: Fighting Vandalism. It's true that I've been prosecuting a few vandals lately, but thanks god (cross fingers, touch left one) we don't have any serious vandal on Argentine articles.
:What I want mean is that I'm not sure we actually ''need'' and ''Argentine Admin''. But if you decide we need one, I would be of course honoured to go for it. Sebas, thanks for your vote of trust. -[[User:Marianocecowski|Mariano]] 08:12, 23 August 2005 (UTC)
::Let's hope you don't need to use your powers very often. :) --[[User:Sebastiankessel|Sebastian Kessel]] 15:14, 23 August 2005 (UTC)
:::We don't ''need'' an admin, but it's always good to know that a capable person, someone you can trust, is there to set things straight in case anything goes wrong. I support. --[[User:Pablo-flores|Pablo D. Flores]] 16:00, 23 August 2005 (UTC)
'''Pablo's message was enough for me :). He is nominated in [[Requests_for_adminship]], if you wish, please show support.''' --[[User:Sebastiankessel|Sebastian Kessel]] 16:06, 23 August 2005 (UTC)
== New Categories ==
I've created two new categories:
<nowiki>
[[Category:Boca Juniors footballers]] and [[Category:Footballers in Argentina by club]]
</nowiki>
I've mimicked the Spanish hierarchy for this (see <nowiki>[[Category:Footballers in Spain by club]]</nowiki>), and even when we do have <nowiki>[[Category:Argentine footballers]]</nowiki>, the former one should group them by club, whereas the latter just shows that they are from [[Argentina]].
People willing to help categorize all football players by their club is more than welcome.
:You can avoid the nowiki tags and insert category names by prefixing an extra ''':''' to the name: [[:Category:Footballers in Argentina by club]]. The question I have is, with players being sold and bought all the time, will everybody keep track? Or the categories will include players who were in a team but are no more? --[[User:Pablo-flores|Pablo D. Flores]] <span style="font-size: 80%">([[User talk:Pablo-flores|Talk]])</span> 18:01, 24 August 2005 (UTC)
::They should include players who played for the club, regardless of their current status. At least, that is the way the spanish categories are organized and the way I started to categorize the players. For example, [[Diego Maradona|Maradona]] is still in [[:Category:Argentine footballers]]. It may be too much to handle if we try to keep up with the market. Besides, around 25 players are in a team at one point...
PS: Thanks for the tip. --[[User:Sebastiankessel|Sebastian Kessel]] 18:31, 24 August 2005 (UTC)
== Glamorous cumbia ==
Does anybody know why [[Glamorous cumbia]] was undeleted? --[[User:Pablo-flores|Pablo D. Flores]] <span style="font-size: 80%">([[User talk:Pablo-flores|Talk]])</span> 22:12, 27 August 2005 (UTC)
:Well I checked myself. [[User:Shoaler|Shoaler]] undeleted it, after seeing that the VfD hadn't had much support. He now knows what the problem was. Now the article should be deleted again, but some of the text, IMHO, should be incorporated into another article ([[Argentine cumbia]]?). --[[User:Pablo-flores|Pablo D. Flores]] <span style="font-size: 80%">([[User talk:Pablo-flores|Talk]])</span> 01:32, 29 August 2005 (UTC)
::Pablo, only an administrator can actually ''delete'' an article. It was restored because the voting had no result, and your comment (''some of the text, should be incorporated into another article'') makes it feel we should do that other article before deleting [[Glamorous cumbia]] (what I think would be the best, got any spare hour? :) -[[User:Marianocecowski|Mariano]] 08:41, 29 August 2005 (UTC)
:::I've just created [[Argentine cumbia]]. It needs expansion and checking, but it's a start. --[[User:Pablo-flores|Pablo D. Flores]] <span style="font-size: 80%">([[User talk:Pablo-flores|Talk]])</span> 17:24, 29 August 2005 (UTC)
I just noticed that [[Glamorous cumbia]] has a [[de:Cumbia Romántica|German counterpart]]. Anyone who reads German and who can check what the people over there wrote or translated, and leave a message? --[[User:Pablo-flores|Pablo D. Flores]] <span style="font-size: 80%">([[User talk:Pablo-flores|Talk]])</span> 10:28, 1 September 2005 (UTC)
::It doesn't seam to be a translation of [[Glamorous cumbia]], but rather an article about Romantic cumbia in Argentina, with a short article-less reference to ''Glamorous cumbia''. Check altavista translation[http://babelfish.altavista.com/babelfish/trurl_pagecontent?lp=de_en&url=http%3A%2F%2Fde.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FCumbia_Rom%C3%A1ntica]. I thin we could leave a message in English in the [http://de.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Diskussion:Cumbia_Rom%C3%A1ntica&action=edit Talk Page]. -[[User:Marianocecowski|Mariano]] 10:42, 1 September 2005 (UTC)
== Admin - Leave of Absence ==
I want to thank [[User:Sebastiankessel|Sebastian]] for the nomination, and all those who voted took a minute to vote at [[Wikipedia:Requests for adminship|Requests for adminship]] . I hope I will fulfil your expectations.
On the other hand, I'm afraid that, starting today, I will take a Leave of Absence on a last-minute all-of-the-sudden imperative ''"mission to take pictures in order to make them freely available at the Wikipedia"'' (a.k.a. "vacas"). I don't know if I will be able to get my hands on a computer, but I might be only for an hour or so. I'll be back next wednesday (7th) or thursday.
Take care, [[User:Marianocecowski|Mariano]] 06:38, 31 August 2005 (UTC)
:Well, it seams I'm going nowhere. A piece of advice, if you are planning on going to [[Bulgaria]], check wether you need a Visa or not... - [[User:Marianocecowski|Mariano]] 18:28, 31 August 2005 (UTC)
== Admin ==
"contact administrator Mariano for assistance."... It looks like it went to his head already. :)
jajaja, tipico argentino, eh? :)
--[[User:Sebastiankessel|Sebastian Kessel]] <sup>''[[User_talk:Sebastiankessel|Talk]]''</sup> 19:01, 31 August 2005 (UTC)
:Shut up or I'll blok you! and its ''Sir Mister Administrator'' for you. :oP
:-[[User:Marianocecowski|Mariano]] 07:30, 1 September 2005 (UTC)
:Oh dear, it started... :) --[[User:Sebastiankessel|Sebastian Kessel]] <sup>''[[User_talk:Sebastiankessel|Talk]]''</sup> 17:30, 6 September 2005 (UTC)
== Legal System ==
Hi, everybody, [[User:Tcalle|Tcalle]] has created [[Argentinian Legal System]]. It is a prime candidate for [[WP:VfD|VfD]] unless we really improve it. I tidied up a little bit, but I'm going to need lots of help building it... Maybe we should contact [[User:Tcalle]], to help. He probably has some ideas in mind.
--[[User:Sebastiankessel|Sebastian Kessel]] <sup>''[[User_talk:Sebastiankessel|Talk]]''</sup> 17:32, 6 September 2005 (UTC)
:I would prefer someone to fix both [[Law of Argentina]] and [[Constitution of Argentina]] rather than deleting them. I think they are the kind of thing the Wikipedia should have. Models for the constitution are [[United States Constitution]] or the [[Spain|Spanish]] model with different constitutions ([[Spanish Constitution of 1978]]), or at least a brief description such as that of [[Constitution of Slovenia]]. For the Law system: [[Law of the United States]] and [[Law of Australia]]. I'm afraid I have neither the time nor the knowledge to do it myself. Pablo? [[User:Marianocecowski|Mariano]]<small>([[User talk:Marianocecowski|t]]/[[Special:Contributions/Marianocecowski|c]])</small> 07:52, 7 September 2005 (UTC)
::I've been wanting to get an [[Argentine constitution]] article. I'll take a look at it, since the important things are already there. [[Law of Argentina]] is much much too broad for me to tackle. --[[User:Pablo-flores|Pablo D. Flores]] <span style="font-size: 80%">([[User talk:Pablo-flores|Talk]])</span> 11:14, 7 September 2005 (UTC)
== Election and politics articles ==
I propose we adopt a standard format for articles on elections. We have [[Argentine presidential election, 2003]] and then [[Elections in Argentina]] has a number of red links named [[Argentine elections, YYYY]]. Now a gazillion articles link to the 2003 elections article, but most do so through {{tl|Politics of Argentina}}, so changing the template will solve the redirect problem.
My idea:
# Let's keep articles on parties separate from articles on elections, template-wise. The now long dead [[Intransigent Radical Civic Union]], for example, has nothing to do with the 2003 elections. Maybe there should be a template with the major parties of today and historically important parties.
# Let's name all articles using the same format. I propose [[Elections in Argentina, YYYY]]. It avoids the adjective (which everyone gets differently) and keeps the trend of the main article. We can make a bunch of redirects later.
# Let's actually ''write'' the articles on the previous elections. :) At least presidential winners and/or some comment on the political implications.
# [[Argentine presidential election, 2003]] should be moved and incorporate more info; we have [[:es:Elecciones argentinas (2003)]] to get data.
--[[User:Pablo-flores|Pablo D. Flores]] <span style="font-size: 80%">([[User talk:Pablo-flores|Talk]])</span> 22:25, 13 September 2005 (UTC)
:I like it. :) --[[User:Sebastiankessel|Sebastian Kessel]] <sup>''[[User_talk:Sebastiankessel|Talk]]''</sup> 22:30, 13 September 2005 (UTC)
::Regarding the names of the elections, I checked the election categories of other countries and it seams to be common to add ''presidential'', ''parliament'', ''regional'' or other adjectives to the name of the article. [[:Category:Elections in Spain]], [[:Category:Elections in Belgium]], [[:Category:Elections in New Zealand]]. Anyhow, there seams to be no ''standard'' on this, so we can do either with or without ''presidential''. It could be included, though, since they are somehome ''more important'' than the ''other'' ones, and then make a redirection from the name without it.
::What about the comming elections? Does anyone have any info to create the article ''before'' they actually take place? [[User:Marianocecowski|Mariano]]<small>([[User talk:Marianocecowski|t]]/[[Special:Contributions/Marianocecowski|c]])</small> 07:27, 14 September 2005 (UTC)
:::As for the names, I would go for shortness. If you're looking for info directly (rather than following a link), then you'll probably start by searching without qualifications. Unless you're an Argentine voter, also, you may not remember which kind the election was. I noticed "general elections" articles; I think the adjective is rather superfluous, as long as we specify the scope of the article in the first paragraph.
:::A standard for ''content'' and layout we also need, but that's secondary. I'd be inclined to include summarized results and some comments, and point to the sources directly.
:::For the coming elections, if we agree on the comments thing above, we may explain it's a legislative election (point to the main article to explain the procedure), comment on the slaughter and mishmash of candidates in Buenos Aires Province, on the fact that Santa Fe won't employ [[Ley de Lemas]], on the "plebiscitary" nature of this elections for Kirchner, etc. --[[User:Pablo-flores|Pablo D. Flores]] <span style="font-size: 80%">([[User talk:Pablo-flores|Talk]])</span> 10:34, 14 September 2005 (UTC)
::I stoped worring too much about names some time ago. For the format, either the english or spanish versions are good. I like the spanish version with all the candidates for presindet, and the rest of the elections divided by province. Perhaps we could add the Second place and vote counts for Governors (if data available). -[[User:Marianocecowski|Mariano]]<small>([[User talk:Marianocecowski|t]]/[[Special:Contributions/Marianocecowski|c]])</small> 11:16, 14 September 2005 (UTC)
:::I would not put "Presidential", since they sometimes also include Senadores and Diputados, and would mislead people. As far as how to divide them, the nationwide elections (President, referendums, etc...) should have a total and a breakdown by province (if we find one) the rest should have a main page explaining the process and a breakdown by province as well. --[[User:Sebastiankessel|Sebastian Kessel]] <sup>''[[User_talk:Sebastiankessel|Talk]]''</sup> 15:54, 14 September 2005 (UTC)
::About the coming elections, I started a page on the spanish wikipedia [[es:Elecciones argentinas (2005)]], but I basically let it die, because nobody helped me, and because I personally decided not to vote anymore, so I lost interest. If anyone wishes to translate it and expand it (because is quite limited), go ahead. [[User:Jfa|Jfa]] [[Special:Random|X]] [[User Talk:Jfa|<<afJ>>]] 17:32, 26 September 2005 (UTC)
== [[South Shetland Islands]] ==
please go to the talk page, there is a big discussion about to start. English wikipedia says that they discovery was in 1819 but i have govenment web pages (.gov domains) that talks about argentinian fishing permissions in 1818 [[User:Argentino]] 21:43, 21 September 2005 (UTC)
== Football Player Infobox ==
Hey, guys I'm going to Football Database [[http://www.footballdatabase.com/site/players/index.php?page=index.php¶m=&from=25&sortBy=all&orderBy=country.countryname]] and getting stats on all Argentine Football players. I already did A-B (going alphabetically) and added the infobox to those players who I have stats for. Once I finish with the ones this site has stats for, I'll do some research and finish the rest. Help is appreciated. :)
PS: If you continue, please do it alphabetically and let us know where you finished so we can do it in an organized way.
--[[User:Sebastiankessel|Sebastian Kessel]] <sup>''[[User_talk:Sebastiankessel|Talk]]''</sup> 18:25, 22 September 2005 (UTC)
:Great source of Info! careful, if statistics show 0 - 0, it might be actually ''No Data''. About the Template, sometimes it gets kinda wide ([[Guillermo Barros Schelotto]]), and there is one question: For 3 seasons in one club, should be add the total matches and goals and put it in one line or have each season separately? -[[User:Marianocecowski|Mariano]]<small>([[User talk:Marianocecowski|t]]/[[Special:Contributions/Marianocecowski|c]])</small> 07:18, 23 September 2005 (UTC)
----
Is it really redundant to have a table of goals per season?
The current scheme has only goals per team, so if the player stays 3 seasons in one team we know how many matches and goals he had in those 3 years, but not for the season specifically.
Options are:
# Keep both (table, and infobox)
# Put the data in the info-box season by season
# loose the data and have lees information.
[[User:Marianocecowski|Mariano]]<small>([[User talk:Marianocecowski|t]]/[[Special:Contributions/Marianocecowski|c]])</small> 15:54, 4 October 2005 (UTC)
:Is it ok if I go with 3? It is really that relevant? I would cite a particular outstanding season if the player has one (like Palermo scoring 20 times in 19 games) but asides from that, seems like a "waste of good bytes"? :)
:--[[User:Sebastiankessel|Sebastian Kessel]] <sup>''[[User_talk:Sebastiankessel|Talk]]''</sup> 15:59, 4 October 2005 (UTC)
== WikiProject Argentina? ==
Guys, this page is evolving from a "Notice Board" to a project. Shouldn't we move some of the content to [[Wikipedia:WikiProject_Latin_America_countries]], or create a [[Wikipedia:Wikiproject_Argentina]]?
Just an idea.
--[[User:Sebastiankessel|Sebastian Kessel]] <sup>''[[User_talk:Sebastiankessel|Talk]]''</sup> 18:12, 13 September 2005 (UTC)
:I would go for WikiProject Argentina. I feel, however, that for this to make sense it is necessary that there are at least two kinds of users, 1) those who can contribute from time to time or just appreciate having articles and news on Argentina, and 2) those who do and want to contribute to make articles at a good rate, with research and sources and all. Group 1 will just take a look at the notice board, Group 2 will also join the WikiProject. We could do this already, but if there are not enough people in both groups, splitting the page seems unnecessary.
:Of course when I speak of groups I don't mean a clear split, or membership or anything of the kind. The idea is that the board should start to function like a board - attracting visitors actively looking for news and articles on Argentina. Once this is done, the project will be a natural step forward. The sad reality being that at present we're just cuatro gatos (give or take), setting up a project sounds prematurish. I'm willing to be convinced otherwise, though. --[[User:Pablo-flores|Pablo D. Flores]] <span style="font-size: 80%">([[User talk:Pablo-flores|Talk]])</span> 21:52, 13 September 2005 (UTC)
::I agree with Pablo, we are really ''four crazy cats'', and sometimes the RNB seams too big for us. A Wikiproject demands much more work and attention, which I prefer to dedicate to the Wikipedia itself. Hope some day we get more steady contributors to need one! -[[User:Marianocecowski|Mariano]]<small>([[User talk:Marianocecowski|t]]/[[Special:Contributions/Marianocecowski|c]])</small> 07:16, 14 September 2005 (UTC)
:::Good point, I haven't been the best contributor lately... Maybe we'll get some more guys to help out. --[[User:Sebastiankessel|Sebastian Kessel]] <sup>''[[User_talk:Sebastiankessel|Talk]]''</sup> 15:59, 14 September 2005 (UTC)
::::Well, if you don't mind me stepping in, I could be the ''fifth'' cat. I know, I'm not Argentinian, but the fact that I lived for quite a few years in [[Mendoza]] and my love for the country can make for the difference, I hope. I fully support the idea of an Argentinian Wikiproject. Hugs! [[User:Shauri|Shauri]] <small><font color="green">[[User_talk:Shauri|Yes babe?]]</font color></small> 23:49, 29 September 2005 (UTC)
:I have nothing against the move, as long as it really matters. A WikiProject implies work, guidelines and policies, and advertising: looking for contributors and trying to attract the occasional editor who retouches things here and there or suggests something. There should be more coordination with the Spanish Wikipedia, too. Shauri, welcome aboard. You can never have too many [[Wikipedia:Wikipediholic|wikiholics]] in a project. :) --[[User:Pablo-flores|Pablo D. Flores]] <span style="font-size: 80%">([[User talk:Pablo-flores|Talk]])</span> 01:39, 30 September 2005 (UTC)
support project. poco a poco things will be filled. and stuff will be more structured. if one day we all leave the people that follow us will have a better idea of what was decided and why so. a NB can not fullfill this. i don't think it needs much more attention. [[User:Tobias Conradi|Tobias Conradi]] [[User_talk:Tobias Conradi|(Talk)]] 12:43, 30 September 2005 (UTC)
===Placebox===
Now that the [[/Placebox|Placebox]] thing is more or less settled, maybe we should create the [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Argentina|WikiProject Argentina]] and also [[Wikipedia:Placebox]] or something like that. The development of the box has been a bit messy... I wrote some instructions at [[Template talk:Placebox-begin]]. Let's put everything together. How do you exactly start a WikiProject? --[[User:Pablo-flores|Pablo D. Flores]] <span style="font-size: 80%">([[User talk:Pablo-flores|Talk]])</span> 15:56, 30 September 2005 (UTC)
:I think you just click on the redlink and start editing. :) --[[User:Sebastiankessel|Sebastian Kessel]] <sup>''[[User_talk:Sebastiankessel|Talk]]''</sup> 16:11, 30 September 2005 (UTC)
:YAY! I did it!!! Just click here [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Argentina|WikiProject Argentina]]. --[[User:Sebastiankessel|Sebastian Kessel]] <sup>''[[User_talk:Sebastiankessel|Talk]]''</sup> 16:23, 30 September 2005 (UTC)
== Patentes ==
I just created [[Argentine License Plates]]. Please copyedit and improve since I wrote it in 20 minutes before leaving the office. I plan to add some pictures tomorrow. :)
--[[User:Sebastiankessel|Sebastian Kessel]] <sup>''[[User_talk:Sebastiankessel|Talk]]''</sup> 00:04, 5 October 2005 (UTC)
== People from... ==
Hi friends, I encourage you to check the biographies of [[Argentina|Argentine]] people and add them the category "People from... " (e.g.: People from [[Buenos Aires]], [[Rosario]], etc.). I think it would be nice :-).
[[User:Mxcatania|Mxcatania]]
== To Do ==
Shouldn't we move the To Do to the wikiproject?
--[[User:Sebastiankessel|Sebastian Kessel]] <sup>''[[User_talk:Sebastiankessel|Talk]]''</sup> 21:59, 8 October 2005 (UTC)
:I've been meaning to do that, so I've just done it. I believe we should also reformat it: no columns but comma-separated lists, and articles divided in categories of the kind "people", "places", "institutions", "events", "others". --[[User:Pablo-flores|Pablo D. Flores]] <span style="font-size: 80%">([[User talk:Pablo-flores|Talk]])</span> 17:49, 9 October 2005 (UTC)
== Check Spanish ==
Hi,... couldn't really think of anywhere else to find people who speak Spanish, so I guess this is it. I was wondering if anyone could help me check the spelling and grammar of [[:Image:Regiones de China.PNG]]? If you find any errors, please [[User talk:Ran|contact me]]. Your help is greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance! -- [[User:Ran|ran]] ([[User talk:Ran|talk]]) 04:11, 9 October 2005 (UTC)
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