Talk:Chewbacca defense and SS Lazio: Difference between pages

(Difference between pages)
Content deleted Content added
 
 
Line 1:
{{Football club infobox |
== Botheration ==
clubname = S.S. Lazio |
I fail to see how anyone would bother sitting down and writing this article 20:57, 28 Apr 2005 (UTC)
image = [[Image:Ss_lazio.gif|150px|logo]] |
fullname = Società Sportiva Lazio<br>1900 SpA |
nickname = ''Biancocelesti'' |
founded = [[1900]] |
ground = [[Stadio Olimpico]],<br/>[[Rome]], [[Italy]] |
capacity = 82,656 |
chairman = [[Claudio Lotito]] |
manager = [[Delio Rossi]] |
league = [[Serie A]] |
season = 2004-05 |
position = [[Serie A]], 10th |
pattern_la1=|pattern_b1=_thinwhitesides|pattern_ra1=|
leftarm1=7EC9E4|body1=7EC9E4|rightarm1=7EC9E4|shorts1=FFFFFF|socks1=FFFFFF|
pattern_la2=|pattern_b2=|pattern_ra2=|
leftarm2=FFFFFF|body2=FFFFFF|rightarm2=FFFFFF|shorts2=7EC9E4|socks2=7EC9E4|
}}
 
'''S.S. Lazio''' ([[Italian language|Italian]]: ''Società Sportiva Lazio SpA'') is an [[Italy|Italian]] [[football (soccer)|football]] club based in [[Rome]]. They are known as the ''biancocelesti''. They play in light blue shirts, with white shorts and socks.
== Is this legitimate ? ==
Is this a legitimate article? Nothing links to it except the [[Wikipedia:Sandbox]]. I uderstand that this was an act in [[South Park]], but is this term useful? All of the [[Google test|Google hits]] seem to be referring to or spoofing this South Park joke. If it is legitimate, shouldn't the lengthy quotes be cut down? -- [[User:Next Paige|Paige]] 16:24, 29 Sep 2003 (UTC)
 
The club was founded on January 9th 1900 as Società Podistica Lazio. The name Lazio was taken from the Latin word "Latium", that means "wide", meeting the aim of the founders to symbolize something that includes Rome, but which is not limited to Rome (in fact, Lazio is the name of [[Latium|the region where Rome lies]]). The sky blue and white strip colours were inspired by the [[Greece|Greek]] flag and the country which gave birth to Olympic tradition. At the very beginning of its history, the club ran a number of different sporting activities and, from 1902, the club started the football section.
:I agree. If it is legitimate, I'd like to see a better introduction than just "The Chewbacca Defense is a nonsensical legal defence" -[[User:Fernkes|Fernkes]] 17:43, Sep 29, 2003 (UTC)
 
The club did not join the [[Italian Football League|league]] competition until 1913. They made the national decider a number of times but lost, often heavily - 9-1 on aggregate to Casale in 1914 and 6-1 on aggregate to [[Genoa 1893]] in 1923.
::Perhaps something like what was done with the [[Generalissimo Francisco Franco is still dead]] article from SNL? -- [[User:Next Paige|Paige]] 18:27, 29 Sep 2003 (UTC)
 
The club played in the first [[Serie A]], but their highest pre-war finish was second in 1937. Post-war the club continued to fail in the league, but did win the [[Coppa Italia]] in 1958. However, they had to wait until 1974 for their first ''scudetto''.
:::Yes, that gives the reader a bit of history and gets him/her acquainted with what's going on. As it is now, I'm in the dark. - [[User:Fernkes|Fernkes]] 21:46, Sep 29, 2003 (UTC)
::::I first encountered the term "Chewbacca Defense" in an online debate re: Alan Derhowitz. I was very puzzled. The author seemed to think that everyone would understand what he meant. After a ''lot'' of searching, I found what it did mean. I thought, "why not put this on wikipedia?"
 
However, when [[Sergio Cragnotti]] became president of the club, he was prepared to invest long-term in new players for the club. In 1993 Lazio finished fifth in Serie A, fourth in 1994, second in 1995, third in 1996, and fourth again in 1997 before winning the ''scudetto'' for the second time in 2000 with [[Sven-Göran Eriksson]] (1997-2001) as manager. They had Coppa Italia victories in 1998, 2000 and 2004 and they also won the last UEFA [[Cup Winners' Cup]] in 1999.
::::The wikipedia connects to more than itself. It connects to the outside world. My description is short but accurate. Einstein said that "Everything should be made as simple as possible but no simpler."
 
But after a financial scandal which invested Cragnotti and his foodstuff multinational [[Cirio]], Lazio was controlled in 2004 by a bank pool, in order to be sold to enterpreneur [[Claudio Lotito]], who is the current team owner. The new season for Lazio brought away several strong team players, who were sold to make up the big deficit that regarded the team, which is quoted at the ''Piazza Affari'' Italian stock market. During this summer, former 36-year old Lazio star [[Paolo Di Canio]] accepted to join his favourite team one more time, giving up a much more worthwhile contract from his previous team [[Charlton Athletic F.C.|Charlton Athletic]].
::::I believe the article should stay. Add to it if you must.
 
The club plays at the 82,656 seater Stadio Olimpico, shared with [[A.S. Roma]]. The two teams play one another each year in the [[Rome derby]], a fiery, emotional match often marked with tension and fights in the stands. The two clubs have a history of rivalry; in the 2003 season an unprecedented event occurred when the [[A.S. Roma|Roma]] [[Ultras]] forced the game to be suspended after false rumours spread around the stadium that a child had been killed by the police prior to the beginning of the game. In the current 2004/2005 season, Lazio won the first leg of the derby 3-1, while the second leg was a 0-0 draw.
I've tried my best to make this a little bit more encyclopedic. I wonder if this might be considered source text, but quotations (even lengthy ones) are often quite useful. [[User:Evercat|Evercat]] 23:40, 29 Sep 2003 (UTC)
 
Famous Lazio players include [[Alen Bokšić]], [[Giorgio Chinaglia]], [[Paul Gascoigne]], [[Silvio Piola]], [[Giuseppe Signori]], [[Pavel Nedvěd]], [[Juan Sebastián Verón]], [[Paolo Di Canio]], [[Jaap Stam]], [[Angelo Peruzzi]], [[Hernán Crespo]], [[Dino Baggio]], [[Roberto Mancini]], [[Christian Vieri]] and [[Alessandro Nesta]].
:Well, now that it's been explained a bit more clearly, and one of the quotes dropped, I can see where this is legitimate. (And I now regret not having added "First post!" to my original comments above.) :oP [[User:Next Paige|Paige]] 02:29, 30 Sep 2003 (UTC)
 
==First team squad==
:Ditto! -[[User:Fernkes|Fernkes]] 12:06, Sep 30, 2003 (UTC)
{|
|valign="top"|
'''Goalkeepers'''
*1 {{flagicon|Italy}} [[Angelo Peruzzi]]
*32 {{flagicon|Italy}} [[Marco Ballotta]]
*33 {{flagicon|Italy}} [[Matteo Sereni]]
'''Defenders'''
*2 {{flagicon|Italy}} [[Guglielmo Stendardo]]
*5 {{flagicon|Italy}} [[Felice Piccolo]]
*7 {{flagicon|Italy}} [[Manuel Belleri]]
*8 {{flagicon|Italy}} [[Luciano Zauri]]
*13 {{flagicon|Italy}} [[Sebastiano Siviglia]]
*16 {{flagicon|Italy}} [[Andrea Giallombardo]]
*22 {{flagicon|Italy}} [[Massimo Oddo]]
*25 {{flagicon|Brazil}} [[Emilson Sanchez Cribari|Cribari]]
|valign="top"|
'''Midfielders'''
*3 {{flagicon|Italy}} [[Roberto Baronio]]
*4 {{flagicon|Italy}} [[Fabio Firmani]]
*6 {{flagicon|France}} [[Ousmane Dabo]]
*10 {{flagicon|Brazil}} [[César Rodríguez Aparecido|Fucking Bitch]]
*20 {{flagicon|Italy}} [[Fabio Liverani]]
*31 {{flagicon|Denmark}} [[Christian Keller]]
*68 {{flagicon|Italy}} [[Christian Manfredini]]
*85 {{flagicon|Switzerland}} [[Valon Behrami]]
*TBD {{flagicon|Belgium}} [[Gaby Mudingayi]]
|width="50"|&nbsp;
|valign="top"|
'''Attackers'''
*9 {{flagicon|Italy}} [[Paolo Di Canio]]
*17 {{flagicon|Albania}} [[Igli Tare]]
*18 {{flagicon|Italy}} [[Tommaso Rocchi]]
*19 {{flagicon|Macedonia}} [[Goran Pandev]]
*21 {{flagicon|Italy}} [[Simone Inzaghi]]
|}
 
==Team honors==
== VFD discussion from 2003 ==
*Italian Champions '''2''' 1973/74 1999/00
Moved from [[Wikipedia:Votes for deletion]] after a concensus emerged to keep:
*[[Coppa Italia|Italian Cup]] '''4''' 1958 1997/98 1999/00 2003/04
*Italian SuperCup '''1''' 1998
*UEFA [[Cup Winners' Cup]] '''1''' 1998/99
*[[European Super Cup]] '''1''' 1999
 
==External links==
*[[Chewbacca Defense]] - nonsense, very specific, very unencyclopedic. [[User:TwoOneTwo|TwoOneTwo]] 22:00, 29 Sep 2003 (UTC)
*''[http://www.sslazio.it/ Official site]'' (in [[Italian language|Italian]])
**Delete -- although there's plenty of genuine google hits, and it looks like a valid a piece of "internet culture", we don't have pages for other (better known) internet wonders like maher,hamsterdance, or tubgirl. Furthermore, if Chewbacca lives on Endor, this page must go :) -- [[User:Finlay McWalter|Finlay McWalter]] 22:47, 29 Sep 2003 (UTC)
*[http://www.lazionet.net Lazio.net Community] (Ass. Cult. Lazio.net)
***How could we delete a term in standard use with a lot of Google hits (and a clear, uniquely defined ''phrase'' at that . . . not a collocation like "Bush is an idiot")? We have a page devoted solely to [[Slashdot trolling phenomena]], for crying out loud! Oh, and if we don't have an article for Hamsterdance yet, someone needs to make one! [[User:Wiwaxia|Wiwaxia]] 02:13, 30 Sep 2003 (UTC)
*[http://www.fcitalia.com/lazio/news/newslazio.htm SS Lazio News] (FC Italia, in Italian)
**I've tried to make it a little bit more encyclopedic. I think it's harmless. Don't delete. [[User:Evercat|Evercat]] 23:41, 29 Sep 2003 (UTC)
*[http://www.laziofever.com LazioFever] The International site in English language about Lazio
***Much better. The wookie wins. Keep. -- [[User:Finlay McWalter|Finlay McWalter]] 00:49, 30 Sep 2003 (UTC)
*[http://www.franciabiancoceleste.com Francia Biancoceleste] (Ultras Lazio, in french)
** Keep. I never watch Southpark, but Slashdot and others use the term so much, it's become part of our "cultural" landscape. [[User:Fuzheado|Fuzheado]] 01:02, 30 Sep 2003 (UTC)
** Delete -- Imagine if we started having lots of pages like this refering to Star Trek? We'd have pages for the [[Corbomite maneuver]], dozens of MadLibs-esque [[Dammit Jim! I'm a doctor, not a ___]] pages, and [[Of course, the Russians inwented ___]]... ;) -- [[User:Bcorr|Bcorr]] 02:23, 30 Sep 2003 (UTC)
***Keep. I questioned this earlier because it seemed like it was ''just'' a South Park ref, but it now illustrates how it has been applied elsewhere. (And frankly, I'm surprised there isn't a Dammit Jim article already!) [[User:Next Paige|Paige]] 02:38, 30 Sep 2003 (UTC)
*** "Dammit Jim..." and "Of course..." trail off and have (as you said) Mad-libs, wildcard type relevance, so they wouldn't make good articles anyway. Now Corbomite Maneuver, that I could get behind. The Chewbacca Defense article was actually useful for me, as lots of Slashdotters refer to it, and I find it agonizing to sit through even 2 minutes of South Park. :) [[User:Fuzheado|Fuzheado]] 03:27, 30 Sep 2003 (UTC)
**Delete. -- [[User:Daran|Daran]] 15:01, 30 Sep 2003 (UTC)
**Keep. This is decently written page about a term that is now used beyond just referring to South Park. It is more encyclopedic than a lot of pages people don't complain about. [[User:InanimateCarbonRod|InanimateCarbonRod]]
**Keep. It is just another [[innovative defense]] that desperate criminal defense lawyers should have available in their bag of wicks. [[User:Alex756|Alex756]] 06:54, 3 Oct 2003 (UTC)
**Keep. [[User:Daniel Quinlan|Daniel Quinlan]] 07:31, Oct 3, 2003 (UTC)
** Strong Keep. Look: Ladies and gentlemen of the supposed wiki, [[User:TwoOneTwo|TwoOneTwo]] would certainly want you to believe that this article, ''Chewbacca defence'', is an unencyclopedic article. And they make a good case. Hell, I almost fell for it myself!
But ladies and gentlemen of this supposed wiki, I have one final thing I want you to consider: Ladies and gentlemen of the wiki, this [[Image:Chewbacca.jpg|thumb|200px|center|Chewbacca]] is Chewbacca. Chewbacca is a Wookiee from the planet Kashyyyk, but Chewbacca lives on the planet Endor. Now, think about that. That does not make sense! Why would a Wookiee&#8212;an eight foot tall Wookiee&#8212;want to live on Endor with a bunch of two foot tall Ewoks? That does not make sense!
But more important, you have to ask yourself, what does this have to do with this case? Nothing. Ladies and gentlemen, it has nothing to do with this case! It does not make sense!
Look at me, I'm a geek editor defending a noted geek joke article, and I'm talkin' about Chewbacca. Does that make sense? Ladies and gentlemen, I am not making any sense. None of this makes sense!
And so you have to remember, when you're in your computer rooms deliberating and conjugating the Emancipation Proclamation... does it make sense? No! Ladies and gentlemen of this supposed wiki, it does not make sense.
If Chewbacca lived on Endor, you must keep! The defense rests.
 
{{Serie A}}
I think it is kinda trollish to ask for a informal vfd in the talk page, where not a lot of people are going to stumble upon AFTER the "official" VfD ended with a major win for '''Keep'''. It's like trying to pull a slight of hand.
 
[[Category:Italian football clubs|Lazio]]
i'm removing the vfd notice. If you want to delete the article, i suggest you put it up for vfd a second time.
[[Category:Rome|Lazio S.S.]]
[[User:Project2501a|Project2501a]] 20:42, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 
[[cs:SS Lazio]]
== Martha Stewart ==
[[da:S.S. Lazio]]
 
[[de:Lazio Rom]]
Martha Stewart's defense is using something similar:
[[es:SS Lazio]]
 
[[fr:SS Lazio]]
On Monday, Strassberg called the prosecution's case a house of cards, repeating "it makes no sense" 23 times in the first hour of his closing argument.
[[it:Società Sportiva Lazio]]
 
[[he:אס אס לאציו]]
[http://money.cnn.com/2004/03/02/news/companies/martha/index.htm?cnn=yes http://money.cnn.com/2004/03/02/news/companies/martha/index.htm?cnn=yes]
[[nl:SS Lazio]]
 
[[ja:SSラツィオ]]
[[User:67.113.40.155|67.113.40.155]] 18:23, 2 Mar 2004 (UTC)
[[pl:Lazio Rzym]]
 
[[ru:Лацио Рим (футбольный клуб)]]
== "Chewbacca Defense" as a chess strategy? ==
[[sv:SS Lazio]]
 
doesn't the term also have to do with the film scene where chewbacca is playing chess? (at least this lead someone at everything2 to [http://www.everything2.org/index.pl?node_id=1119650&displaytype=printable define] it as ''An unorthodox strategy in chess consisting of threats of violence after the game''.) even if not, the scene should still be mentioned. regards, [[User:High on a tree|High on a tree]] 01:33, 15 Jul 2004 (UTC)
 
== The bloody glove ==
 
I don't think that the Chewbacca Defense has anything to do with the bloody glove, other than the phrase "you must acquit". The glove is actually a relevent piece of evidence. It's the rest of Cochrane's distractions that it's parodying. I've removed that bit.
 
: The defence's main point is parody of the phrase "If it doesn't fit, you must acquit"; this is quite a famous phrase, there are 744 google hits. To explain the joke (which is what encyclopaedia is for), tt's important to explain the context of the phrase. - [[User:Asn|ASN]] 15:56, 2004 Jul 29 (UTC)
 
== Slashdot ==
 
Have your Slashdot aside if you must, but the "see also" should be part of the usage section, not a separate section. --[[User:Ihatepotsmokinghippies|ihatepotsmokinghippies]] 05:42, 17 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 
 
I stand by that. --[[User:Ihatepotsmokinghippies|ihatepotsmokinghippies]] 09:51, 17 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 
== Note on Ewoks ==
 
I'm not sure how the "Note on Ewoks" is relevant to the rest of the article:
 
"It is inconclusive as to whether George Lucas created Ewoks out of budget constraint or as a marketing scheme."
 
It looks a bit gratuitous to me. --[[User:Lorem Ipsum|Lorem Ipsum]] 06:21, 19 Jan 2004 (UTC)
 
==Reference to actual copyright infingement case==
When I saw the original South Park episode, I assumed the Chewbacca argument was a reference to an actual copyright infingement case, ''Dean Preston v. 20th Century Fox Canada Limited et al'' (1990), but the article makes no mention of this. Essentially the plaintiff claimed that the ewoks were taken from a script he sent to 20th Century Fox, rather than being adapted from the Wookiee concept.
Some details in [http://www.robic.ca/publications/Pdf/142.015.pdf this pdf] [[User:Zoganes|Zoganes]] 14:01, 2005 Jan 25 (UTC)
 
: The connection doesn't seem likely to me... [[User:Evercat|Evercat]] 23:23, 28 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 
== VfD notice ==
 
''Moved from Wikipedia:Votes for deletion after a concensus emerged to keep''
 
So, what you're trying to say is that someone VfD'd the article, concensus emerged to keep the article, but since that's not the outcome you wanted, you're going to have an informal vfd poll. Am I right?
 
''Yes, hi, how are you, this is 2005 calling you about that vfd in 2003.'' wtf?
 
As I said:
''I think it is kinda trollish to ask for a informal vfd in the talk page, where not a lot of people are going to stumble upon AFTER the "official" VfD ended with a major win for Keep. It's like trying to pull a slight of hand.''
 
I'll wait for a responce, but the VfD is over and the label should be removed.
 
[[User:Project2501a|Project2501a]] 00:21, 18 Jun 2005 (UTC)
*No, you are not right, and no, the VFD discussion is not over. Please ''read'' both the first paragraph of [[Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/Chewbacca Defense]] and the ''dates'' on the above discussion. [[User:Uncle G|Uncle G]] 03:07, 2005 Jun 18 (UTC)
 
 
:: INSERT(FOOT, MOUTH); APOLOGISE();
:: I'm sorry, I didn't RTFWA :( [[User:Project2501a|Project2501a]] 09:47, 18 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 
So, the vote was closed two years ago. Why is the notice back up? [[User:Mgw|Mgw]] 05:31, Jun 19, 2005 (UTC)
 
: New VfD [[User:Project2501a|Project2501a]] 11:32, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)
::Which ended in the same answer:''keep'', ''keep'', ''keep'', ''keep''![[User:Rickyrab|<nowiki></nowiki>]] &mdash; [[User:Rickyrab|Rickyrab]] | [[User talk:Rickyrab|Talk]] 23:05, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)