Wikipedia talk:Articles for deletion/Calvary Christian High School and Cyteen: Difference between pages

Revision as of 02:04, 31 July 2005

Revision as of 23:14, 11 November 2005

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{{cleanup-date|July 2005}}

==After-closing comment==

'''Cyteen''' (1988) is a [[Hugo award]] winning [[novel]] by author [[C. J. Cherryh]], and at its heart is a realistic exploration of the myriad problems inherent in human [[cloning]]. It also fleshes out the various aspects of the [[nature versus nurture]] argument concerning human development.

''The following comment was added after the discussion was closed''

==Plot==

The result of the debate was '''Delete'''. While it's nice that Tony Sidaway personally thinks this article should be kept, his views on this are irrelevant in deciding whether it should be kept. There were five delete votes and five that wanted it to be deleted and sent to BJAODN, and only two keep votes. Voting to send to BJAODN has ''never'' meant that the article should be kept in its current form, although it has also never made a judgement on whether it should return in a future decent article. I see no reason to change this practice now (and at the very least not on the unilateral word of Tony), and as such I'm deleting the article per the VFD consensus and according appropriate protest on [[WP:ANI]]. [[User:Ambi|Ambi]] 13:58, 30 July 2005 (UTC)

'''Spoilers may follow:'''

''Cyteen'' is a novel that takes place in Cherryh's Union-Alliance universe. Founded in 2201 by a group of dissident scientists and engineers that were sponsored by financial interests on the Planet Mariner, the Cyteen system includes the Planet Cyteen and Cyteen Inner and Outer Stations. Cyteen declared its independence from the Earth Company in 2300 CE and now serves as the capital of Union. It is located at Lalande 46650, but is more easily referenced in current star catalogues as BD+01 4774.

: There are two schools of thought on consensus when closing VfDs. One school of thought is that votes should be divided up into broad groups (delete, keep, etc), with for instance merge counting as keep unless otherwise indicated, and that the group with the largest number of votes should be sought to see if a consensus can be found. The other is that each vote is separate and consensus is only found if people explicitly say "delete", "merge", or "keep" vote, otherwise there is no consensus. As a closer I adopt the latter view because it more accurately reflects the tenor of discussion. In that view this discussiona arrived at no consensus. Ambi is correct to state that voting for BJAODN has never meant that the article should be kept in its current form, and I addressed this explicitly in my closing comments, saying that any copyright violations should be dealt with in the appropriate place and the article should probably be relisted if there is no serious attempt to write a sensible article within 28 days. Ambi has speedied the article after a close in which there was no consensus to delete. As closer I am therefore restoring it. BJAODN is an ambiguous vote, and I do not think it would be fair for me to second guess the meaning of such votes when each voter could quite easily say, if it was his intention, that the article itself must be deleted.

Cyteen matters because it is the center of all research and development concerning cloned human beings who are the result of incubation, who grow at a normal rate, but instead of being socialized and educated like normal human beings, they are subjected to extension conditioning via "tape" technology. These clones are all referred to as "azi."

: On a point of detail, it's incorrect to say that I "personally [think] this article should be kept." Inasmuch as I have an opinion, it was expressed outside the discussion where I said it was a joke article and would probably be deleted. However there were not enough delete votes to support this when I closed.

A powerful scientist by the name of Ariane Emory runs Cyteen, along with her uncles Denis and Giraud Nye. She rules the place with an iron fist, and as a result a lot of people really dislike her, or just want her out of the way so they can make a grab for power. '''If somebody can fill in here with the whole political situation, please do so, I have never been able to follow this particular aspect of the plot very well despite rereading.''' But Ariane makes the mistake of relocating a scientist by the name of Jordan to a distant part of the planet. Jordan's son Justin, who is also his clone, tries to use his body to bargain with Ariane, but he's very young and hopelessly outclassed. She uses him sexually and subjects him to pornographic tapes, which apparently awakens his latent homosexual tendencies. Jordan also prefers men; Ariane taunts Justin by asking him if he's afraid of women like his father. But Justin has a top-grade azi companion by the name of Grant, to whom he turns for companionship and solace. Ariane had also wanted to relocate Grant, but Justin tried to sneak him out of Cyteen. His attempt failed but Ariane lets Grant stay in Cyteen with Justin.

: I specialize in late closings--the ones that others tend not to touch--and they do tend to be controversial, so I'm not too surprised to find controversy here. However it is wrong to delete an article without consensus. --[[User:Tony Sidaway|Tony Sidaway]]|[[User talk:Tony Sidaway|Talk]] 14:33, 30 July 2005 (UTC)

The taping Ariane used on him left him badly damaged psychologically but when the Nyes try to get him to seek treatment, he refuses. Instead, he continues the work he was doing, and essentially lives the life of a hostage to ensure that Justin doesn't try to cause further trouble.

::BJAODN is ''not'' an ambiguous vote. It has always been, and will always be, a vote to delete. You do ''not'' get to discount votes because they are not wikilawyers and do not see the need to spell out the blatantly obvious. I'll let this one slip because you've taken the time to rewrite it as a stub, but if you persist in overriding people's votes, I'll ask that the arbitration committee steps in. If Cecropia pulled a stunt like this on [[WP:RFA]], he'd be de-bureaucratted in twenty seconds. [[User:Ambi|Ambi]] 01:41, 31 July 2005 (UTC)

Ariane gets murdered and Justin immediately falls under suspicion, worsening his psychological state. Her uncles discover that she was dying of cancer that set in because her rejuvenation treatments were beginning to lose effectiveness. People can get rejuvenation and stay apparently youthful and vigorous well past the age of 100, but for reasons still undiscovered, the effectiveness fades at a different rate for each person.

: We'll have to agree to differ here. I'm sorry but I have never understood BJAODN to be anything other than a flippant comment on content. A vote to delete is a vote in which a person clearly expresses his wish that an article should be deleted, and this did not happen anything like near enough to establish a consensus here.

Before she died, she had laid the groundwork to set up a system to clone herself and raise the clone with a childhood simulating her own as closely as possible.

: I've done the best I can with a split vote. The article is still open to be listed very shortly if there is no improvement. It is simply incorrect to claim that I have overridden people's votes; on the contrary by refraining from deleting I have taken all opinions into account. Your comments here are very close to being inflammatory but it's not the first time a VfD closer has had to face that kind of behavior. I'm perfectly happy, as we should all be, to subject my actions to the arbitration committee at any time, and I'm confident that I've done the right thing by Wikipedia. It isn't the closer's duty to conjure a consensus to delete where he can find none. --[[User:Tony Sidaway|Tony Sidaway]]|[[User talk:Tony Sidaway|Talk]] 02:04, 31 July 2005 (UTC)

Her uncles knew about this and put it into effect even though they weren't sure if Ariane's clone would be enough like her to continue to stay in power in Cyteen. They can hold on for a whole, but ultimately, they need Ariane back. They find a female scientist in her 60s who can simulate the attitudes and approaches of Ariane's mother, and begin the process.

Ariane also wrote an extensive computer program to interact with her clone and give her more information based on her psych results.

So the young clone, nicknamed "Ari" begins her life. Her major childhood life events are duly simulated. Ariane had the companionship of two azi named Florian and Catlin. Because of the tapes, azi personalities can be more easily duplicated, so Florian II and Catlin II are most likely near-perfect copies of the first two. She gets their companionship at the right time.

Against the wishes of her uncles, Ari also tends to seek out Justin to talk to him. This rattles Justin, but she won't stay away from him. However, as she grows up, he begins to realize she is nicer than the original Ariane was.

Ultimately, Ari takes over command of Cyteen at a younger age, but she had the help of Ariane's computer program. She is a kinder person because her uncles refused to duplicate the incestuous sexual abuse the first Ariane had to tolerate until she moved out.

The novel delves into the psychological nature of its characters' sexuality and personality traits, and poses the question of Nature VS Nuture.

[[category:1988 books]]

[[Category:Science fiction novels]]

[[Category:Hugo Award winning works]]