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#REDIRECT [[Nintendo GameCube]] {{R from alternate spelling}}
{{Shortcut|[[WP:SFD]]}}
{{WSS}}
{{deletiontools}}
This page only deals with the deletion of '''stub types''', which consist of a [[Wikipedia:template|template]] and a [[Wikipedia:category|category]], and are intended to be used for sorting [[Wikipedia:Stub|stubs]]. Stub templates that are missing categories and stub categories without associated templates are also appropriate here. '''All other templates or categories nominated for deletion have to be put on [[WP:TFD]] or [[WP:CFD]], respectively.'''
==About this page==
===Putting a stub type on SfD, and what happens afterwards===
* '''Put {{tl|sfd-t}} on the stub template'''
* '''Put {{tl|sfd-c}} on the stub category'''
* '''List the new stub and/or category on [[Template:sfd-current]].''' This will let several relevant pages know of the nomination
* '''List the stub type below''' in a new subsection '''''at the top of the section which has the current date'''''. If that section does not yet exist, create it.
** Mention the template as well as the category (if it exists), like this:<br /><pre><nowiki>==== {{tl|banana stub}} / [[:Category:Banana stubs]] ====</nowiki></pre>
** Also mention how many articles currently use the template, and if it is listed anywhere else.
** Of course, state your reason for nominating the stub type for deletion!
* After a voting period of seven days, action will be taken if there is consensus on the fate of the stub type. ''Please do not act before this period is over.''
* Archived discussions are logged per the instructions at [[{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}/Log]], and are located at [[{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}/Log/Deleted]] and [[{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}/Log/Not deleted]]. If the decision is to rename the category or template, the discussion is logged on the "deleted" page, since the stub's name, at least, has been deleted.
===Possible reasons for the deletion of a stub type===
* They are not used in any article, and their category is empty
* They overlap with other stub categories, or duplicate them outright
* Their scope is too limited - As a rule of thumb, there should be at least 50 appropriate stubs '''in existence'''
* The stub category or template is misnamed. In this case, make this clear when nominating and propose a new category or template name. Note that - in the case of a template but not a category - it may be more appropriate to make it into a redirect
===What this page is ''not'' for===
* [[Wikipedia:Patent nonsense|Patently nonsensical]] or [[Wikipedia:No personal attacks|insulting]] stub types - they may be [[Wikipedia:Speedy deletion|speedily deleted]]
* Empty categories with no corresponding template - they maybe [[Wikipedia:Speedy deletion|speedily deleted]] (after 24 hours)
* Malformed stub types to which no further deletion reasons apply - fix them or tell the [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Stub sorting]]
* Stub templates that were not approved by the [[WP:WSS|WikiProject Stub sorting]] (again, unless other reasons apply) - list those on [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Stub sorting/Discoveries]]
* Stub categories that are too large - these are not deleted, even if they get subdivided
* Stub types that have a limited scope, but where there is a [[Wikipedia:WikiProject|WikiProject]] on the specific topic
You should, however, notify the [[WP:WSS|WikiProject Stub sorting]] of all stub types that are problematic but do not match the criteria for listing here.
===Typical voting options===
* '''Keep''' (do not delete or modify)
* '''Delete''' (delete template and category)
* '''Merge with xx-stub''' (Delete category, redirect template to xx-stub)
* '''Merge with xx-stub without redirect''' (delete category and template, put xx-stub on all articles that use it)
* '''Change scope''' (reword the template, typically giving it a larger scope. Usually also means renaming the category)
* '''BJAODN''' (add to [[Wikipedia:Bad Jokes and Other Deleted Nonsense]], then delete)
When voting, please try to give a more substantial reason than simply "I like it/find it useful" or "I dislike it/don't find it useful"
===Current listings===
According to {{tl|sfd-current}}, the following stub types are being discussed on this page. If you notice a discrepancy, please [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Sfd-current&action=edit correct the template].
{{sfd-current}}
==Listings==
===October 18th===
===={{tl|California County Routes Stub}} / {{cl|California County Routes stubs}}====
A recent discuvery missed out in the previous road discussions below. Is this one needed at all? If it is, surely California-road-stub is a better name... [[User:Grutness|Grutness]]...<font color=green><small>''[[User_talk:Grutness|wha?''</small></font>]] 23:53, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
:There is a WP that goes with this. [[Wikipedia:WikiProject California County Routes]] However it would be nice to make it singular. --'''[[User:Rschen7754|Rschen7754]] ([[User_talk:Rschen7754|talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Rschen7754|contribs]])''' 01:51, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
'''Keep''' as is. It's attached to a wikiproject.[[User:Gateman1997|Gateman1997]] 02:08, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
===October 17th===
===={{tl|Nebraska-stub}} and {{cl|Nebraska stubs}}====
Created at the beginning of the month. had four stubs 9two of which were geo-stubs). I added the category, just so that articles didn't get "lost" while this debate was going on. No known WikiProject. '''Delete''', as per precedent of other such state-stubs. [[User:Grutness|Grutness]]...<font color=green><small>''[[User_talk:Grutness|wha?''</small></font>]] 09:28, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
*Sorry about that; I should have looked into the standards for stub creation. My bad. '''Delete''' –[[User:Swid|Swid]] 15:40, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
===={{tl|Music Video-stub}} → {{tl|Music-video-stub}}====
Only created today and used twice, but there is a [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Music Video|wikiproject]]. '''Rename''' to standard capitalization and hyphenation, tho. --[[User:Mairi|Mairi]] 04:47, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
:agreed. '''Rename'''. [[User:Grutness|Grutness]]...<font color=green><small>''[[User_talk:Grutness|wha?''</small></font>]] 04:51, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
====Irregularly named US-road-stub sub-cats====
The following were all created via process, it must be said, but are nonetheless erratically named (routes, roads, highways? Caps? Hyphens?), inconsistently used (non-highways in titular "highway" categories, and where only one "road" category exists per state), and in several cases, well below the usual creation theshold (supposedly 60ish ordinarily, somewhat less with WP).
*{{tl|Arizona State Route Stub}}. 7 stubs, no WP. '''Delete'''
*{{tl|Kentucky State Highway Stub}}. 10 stubs <s> -- not all even highways. '''Delete'''</s>
*{{tl|Maryland-State-Highway-Stub}}. 11 articles, no WP. '''Delete'''
*{{tl|Massachusetts-State-Highway-Stub}}. 18 stubs, [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Massachusetts]]. '''Rename''' as {{tl|Massachusetts-road-stub}}
*{{tl|Michigan-State-Highway-Stub}}. 24 stubs, no WP.
*{{tl|Missouri-State-Highway-Stub}}. 0 stubs. '''Delete'''
*{{tl|Nevada-State-Highway-Stub}}. 31 stubs, no WP.
*{{tl|New-Hampshire-State-Highway-Stub}} 83 stubs. '''Rename''' to {{tl|New-Hampshire-road-stub}}.
*{{tl|Nhroute}}. 0 stubs, no category. '''Delete'''
*{{tl|Washington-State-Highway-Stub}}. 45 stubs, not all "State Highways". '''Rename''' to {{tl|Washington-road-stub}}.
[[User:Alai|Alai]] 01:54, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Rename''' to {{tl|Kentucky-road-stub}}. [[Audubon Parkway]], [[Louie B. Nunn Parkway]], [[Wendell H. Ford Western Kentucky Parkway]] and [[William H. Natcher Parkway]] are officially designated Kentucky State Highway 9005, Kentucky State Highway 9008, Kentucky State Highway 9002 and Kentucky State Highway 9007, respectively. There are currently only 10 as the project is just getting started. We had new members join this past week to help out. Once underway, there is the potential for approximately 120 stubs at even given time--but once the project has accomplished its goals, I would see that the stub wouldn't necessarily be needed as {{tl|US-road-stub}} could be used for any new highways created by the Kentucky Transportation Cabinet--which doesn't happen often. Renaming to {{tl|Kentucky-road-stub}} will follow stub hyphenation presedence, alleviate confusion on the Parkway vs. Highway naming convention and provide for the segregation of KY road stubs from other state projects. Thanks for pointing out the naming convention disparity. I agree it needs to be cleaned up. '''>:''' [[User:RobyWayne|<span style="color:blue">'''Roby Wayne'''</span>]] <sup>[[User talk:RobyWayne|<span style="color:blue">Talk</span>]] • [[Special:Contributions/RobyWayne|<span style="color:blue">Hist</span>]] • [[Wikipedia:Esperanza|<span style="color:green">E@</span>]]</sup> 02:28, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' {{tl|Nhroute}}, {{tl|Missouri-State-Highway-Stub}} as they are not used. As for the ones with stubs but no WikiProject, a move was underway to build a "catchall" project for roads that didn't have a state-related WikiProject. '''>:''' [[User:RobyWayne|<span style="color:blue">'''Roby Wayne'''</span>]] <sup>[[User talk:RobyWayne|<span style="color:blue">Talk</span>]] • [[Special:Contributions/RobyWayne|<span style="color:blue">Hist</span>]] • [[Wikipedia:Esperanza|<span style="color:green">E@</span>]]</sup> 02:28, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
:I created it, see below. I did populate the missouri stub today. --'''[[User:Rschen7754|Rschen7754]] ([[User_talk:Rschen7754|talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Rschen7754|contribs]])''' 04:29, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Rename''' for consitency. They were created as part of the state highways wikiproject I do believe. I'd say "highway", "route", "road" etc should stay the way they are as long as they are consistent with the way the respective states name them. Different states have different conventions on how to name their state highways and that should be reflected in these stub names. However the capitalization needs to be changed. An example is {{tl|Maryland-State-Highway-Stub}} which should be capatalized {{tl|Maryland-state-highway-stub}} since it is not a proper noun, the others should have thier capatalization changed accordingly as well. Also "stub" should be lowercase and hyphens should be used to be consistent with the way other stubs are named.
My exact votes are:
* <s>{{tl|Arizona State Route Stub}} '''rename''' {{tl|Arizona-state-route-stub}}</s>
* <s>{{tl|Kentucky State Highway Stub}} '''rename''' {{tl|Kentucky-state-highway-stub}}</s>
* <s>{{tl|Maryland-State-Highway-Stub}} '''rename''' {{tl|Maryland-state-highway-stub}}</s>
* <s>{{tl|Massachusetts-State-Highway-Stub}} '''rename''' {{tl|Massachusetts-state-highway-stub}}</s>
* <s>{{tl|Michigan-State-Highway-Stub}} '''rename''' {{tl|Michigan-state-highway-stub}}</s>
* <s>{{tl|Missouri-State-Highway-Stub}} '''rename''' {{tl|Missouri-state-highway-stub}}</s>
* <s>{{tl|Nevada-State-Highway-Stub}} '''rename''' {{tl|Nevada-state-highway-stub}}</s>
* <s>{{tl|New-Hampshire-State-Highway-Stub}} '''rename''' {{tl|New-Hampshire-state-highway-stub}}</s>
* {{tl|Nhroute}} '''delete''' already one for NH
* <s>{{tl|Washington-State-Highway-Stub}} '''rename''' {{tl|Washington-state-highway-stub}}</s>
(Changed to <nowiki>{{xx-road-stub}}</nowiki> see below)
[[user:Jeff02|-Jeff]] 02:41, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
:'''Maryland State Highway''' is a proper noun, see [[Talk:List of California State Routes/Archive2]] for a similar discussion. --'''[[User:Rschen7754|Rschen7754]] ([[User_talk:Rschen7754|talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Rschen7754|contribs]])''' 03:41, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Rename''' {{tl|Kentucky State Highway Stub}} to {{tl|Kentucky-road-stub}}. Sorry, Roby, didn't realize there was an associated WP in that case. Thanks for the info. [[User:Alai|Alai]] 02:48, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''See my votes below''' I realize how weird that sounds but here is the breakdown:
*{{tl|Arizona State Route Stub}}. I'd say rename to {{tl|Arizona-State-Route-Stub}}
*{{tl|Kentucky State Highway Stub}}. There is a WP with this one. Rename for hyphens
*{{tl|Maryland-State-Highway-Stub}}. Needed, see below
*{{tl|Massachusetts-State-Highway-Stub}}. Don't rename.
*{{tl|Michigan-State-Highway-Stub}}. Don't rename.
*{{tl|Missouri-State-Highway-Stub}}. I haven't gotten around to populating this category since I've been populating the other categories... but I did tonight.
*{{tl|Nevada-State-Highway-Stub}}. Keep.
*{{tl|New-Hampshire-State-Highway-Stub}} Keep as is
*{{tl|Nhroute}}. This is NOT a stub category. Therefore it goes to TFD. I dislike this since we have {{tl|routeboxnh}}.
*{{tl|Washington-State-Highway-Stub}}. Keep, there shouldn't be other roads in here (I got lazy).
All of these stubs DO have a WP- [[Wikipedia:WikiProject U.S. Roads]]. Also, {{tl|US-road-stub}} has over '''500''' pages, something needs to be done...
Eventually there will be WPs for all 50 state highway systems, so we will need stubs for these projects...
--'''[[User:Rschen7754|Rschen7754]] ([[User_talk:Rschen7754|talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Rschen7754|contribs]])''' 03:28, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
*I think these ought to have been proposed individually; this discussion is getting far too confusing. '''Delete''' the mostly unused ones without WikiProjects. '''Rename''' {{tl|Washington-State-Highway-Stub}} to {{tl|Washington-road-stub}}, {{tl|New-Hampshire-State-Highway-Stub}} to {{tl|NewHampshire-road-stub}} and {{tl|Massachusetts-State-Highway-Stub}} to {{tl|Massachusetts-road-stub}}; as they don't have ''specific'' wikiprojects, there's no reason to make them overly specific. At the very least, '''rename''' all other kept ones to StateName-state-highway-stub (or StateName-statehighway-stub). --[[User:Mairi|Mairi]] 04:28, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' the unused ones. '''No opinion''' on {{tl|Nhroute}} stub until someone tells me what a "Nh route" is (some weird abbreviation of north?) '''Rename''' all the others to either Statename-road-stub or Statename-state-highway-stub (preferably the former, as it's more all-inclusive - and there's a proposal at WSS/P to create some regional US-road-stub types anyway, so it would make a lot of sense (Highway wikiprojects notwithstanding) to combine what would be pairs of fairly small categories into larger (but still not huge) categories. [[User:Grutness|Grutness]]...<font color=green><small>''[[User_talk:Grutness|wha?''</small></font>]] 04:47, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
**'Nh' is the miscapitalized [[U.S. postal abbreviations|postal abbreviation]] for New Hampshire; so it's be New Hampshire routes. --[[User:Mairi|Mairi]]
***Gah. Should have guessed. Ridiculous stub name. [[User:Grutness|Grutness]]...<font color=green><small>''[[User_talk:Grutness|wha?''</small></font>]] 05:02, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
****{{tl|Nhroute}} is not a stub... but I'd like it gone anyway. --'''[[User:Rschen7754|Rschen7754]] ([[User_talk:Rschen7754|talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Rschen7754|contribs]])''' 02:01, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Comment''' It should be noted that these stubs are not for roads in these states but specifically for their [[state highway|state highways]]. Like I said before we should be using whatever convention each individual state uses for its state highways such as {{tl|Maryland-state-highway-stub}} and not {{tl|Maryland-road-stub}} for [[List of Maryland state highways|Maryland state highways]] and {{tl|Arizona-state-route-stub}} for [[List of Arizona state routes|Arizona state routes]]. As for {{tl|Nhroute}}, it belongs in tfd but I say we cut out the middle man and just get rid of it.
[[user:Jeff02|-Jeff]] 12:40, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
**Except that firstly, that's unduly narrow: ''why'' are they restricted to state highways only? Surely this just makes an already fiddly split of US-road-stub even more so, and delays them getting over a reasonable threshold for sensible creation. Where they have WikiProjects ''specifically'' on the State Highways of that state (and I'm tempted to add, actual active ones with more than than just one member) that's partial justification, but stub categories for seven articles, is silly either way, and moreso with no WP. And secondly, they ''already'' contain more than just state highways, and Rschen (main perpetrator and defender of this naming scheme) has said he uses them that way anyway. So unless, as with California, more than one stub category can reasonably be created per state, inclusive is surely the way to go, and inclusive categories should have inclusive names.
**There are no such state inactive ones with only one member. The only one is the US Highway one... people are working on the US Roads one. It's like the Highway one... it just holds things together, and sets a standard for things... like a Wikipedia namespace page for example. Also note that there are over 500 stubs in US-road-stub, and there are over 50 articles in a few of the categories above... --'''[[User:Rschen7754|Rschen7754]] ([[User_talk:Rschen7754|talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Rschen7754|contribs]])''' 02:01, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
**You're right about Nhroute: I assumed it was intended to be a stub template of sorts, as it appears in the corresponding stub category. I'd move it to tfd, but if it gets "erroneously" deleted here first I won't be sad. :) [[User:Alai|Alai]] 16:06, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Rename''' all stubs using Jeff's outline above. --[[User:K1vsr|K1vsr]] ([[User_talk:K1vsr|talk]]) 14:27, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Rename''' to foo-road-stub. Someone interested in expanding an article about a state highway in a state should also be interested in other highways. Redirect the old names. Redirects won't kill you. --[[User:SPUI|SPUI]] ([[User talk:SPUI|talk]]) 17:13, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Keep''' and '''Rename''' all the ones requiring hyphens. Also keep the capitalization on them per the arguments previously held over whether is is a "California State Route" or the incorrect "California state route".[[User:Gateman1997|Gateman1997]] 02:17, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Rename''' to <nowiki>{{xx-road-stub}}</nowiki>. Per Alai's comments I change my vote to rename these to <nowiki>{{xx-road-stub}}</nowiki>, since the topics of state highways for each state are too narrow to have a stub category for, but as for all the roads in each state, that's a different story.
:And since I've seen this mentioned a couple of times already I thought I'd just add that since California state route, Maryland state highway, etc. can be used as the subject of an indefinite article ([[California State Route 99]] is '''a California state route''') and can be pluralized ([[Maryland State Highway 2|Ritchie Higway]] and [[Maryland State Highway 3|Crain Highway]] are '''Maryland state highways''') they can't possibly be refering to an ''individual'' person/place/thing, and therefore are not proper nouns. [[user:Jeff02|-Jeff]] 20:17, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
:Except for the fact that there are specific State Highway WPs... except for the county routes anything below a state highway gets sent to AFD (Ladner Trunk Road?) so I don't see the point in changing the templates... and some states don't have county routes. --'''[[User:Rschen7754|Rschen7754]] ([[User_talk:Rschen7754|talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Rschen7754|contribs]])''' 02:01, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' stubs, per Alai. '''Lower case''' for state route, state highway, etc. per Jeff02. [[User:BlankVerse|<font color=green>''Blank''</font><font color= #F88017>''Verse''</font>]]<font color=#2554C7> </font>[[User talk:BlankVerse|<font color=#F660AB>∅</font>]] 00:17, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
**''California State Route'' is a '''specific''' type of highway. Just like U.S. Highway 101 is an interstate highway, but it is not an Interstate Highway. --'''[[User:Rschen7754|Rschen7754]] ([[User_talk:Rschen7754|talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Rschen7754|contribs]])''' 02:17, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Comment''' I'd say that we should close this debate and split things up, this is too confusing. --'''[[User:Rschen7754|Rschen7754]] ([[User_talk:Rschen7754|talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Rschen7754|contribs]])''' 02:01, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
===October 16th===
===={{tl|SA-stub}}====
I propose renaming the abbreviated {{tl|SA-stub}} to the unabbreviated {{tl|SouthAfrica-stub}}. [[User:Aecis|Aecis]] 22:32, 16 October 2005 (UTC)
:SA's one we've been turning a blind eye to... but you're probably right - and what about SA-geo-stub? Given that a saudi Arabia geo-split is likely soon (and there's already a South Australia geo-stub) it's probably a good idea. [[User:Grutness|Grutness]]...<font color=green><small>''[[User_talk:Grutness|wha?''</small></font>]] 23:40, 16 October 2005 (UTC)
:'''Rename''' them both, and likewise, {{tl|SA-mil-stub}}. [[User:Alai|Alai]] 01:54, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
:We have a {{tl|Saudi-stub}}, so this isn't needed for disambiguation, but as long as it's done on all of the RSA stubs including {{tl|SA-road-stub}}, I have no objections to a '''rename'''. [[User:Caerwine|Caerwine]] 23:18, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
::Well technically {{tl|Saudi-stub}}'s name implies that it's only for stubs about the royal family, so that needs a rename too. In any case, simply having Saudi-stub doesn't mean that people won't think SA-stub could be about Saudi Arabia. [[User:Grutness|Grutness]]...<font color=green><small>''[[User_talk:Grutness|wha?''</small></font>]] 01:06, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
===={{tl|Buddhistub}} / {{cl|Buddhism-related stubs}}====
I propose renaming the template to {{tl|buddhism-stub}} (which currently is a redirect to {{tl|buddhistub}}) and the category to {{cl|Buddhism stubs}}. [[User:Aecis|Aecis]] 10:51, 16 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Rename''' "buddhism-stub". Portmanteau is confusing --[[User:MacRusgail|MacRusgail]] 19:30, 16 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Rename''' [[User:Alai|Alai]] 01:54, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
*I support renaming (despite the fact that it's harder to type) ''if'' the XYZ-stub is currently a standard in use for all stub templates. So, that's a '''rename''' if the person who closes this discussion makes a factual judgment that it is a universal standard, and a '''keep''' if the person closing judges otherwise. I do support moving the category, because it's shorter and appears to be the standard on other stub types. - [[User:Nat Krause|Nat Kraus]][[User_Talk:Nat Krause|e]] 09:04, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
**It is the standard, though it is not yet used for all templates. It isn't currently used for {{tl|Buddhistub}} for instance. But it is used for about 95% of them, and we're working on the other 5%. I suggest you check [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Stub sorting/Naming guidelines]]. [[User:Grutness|Grutness]]...<font color=green><small>''[[User_talk:Grutness|wha?''</small></font>]] 09:38, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Redirect''' I have no problem with making the base stub {{tl|Buddhism-stub}}, but keep {{tl|Buddhistub}} as a redirect. I like the portmanteau. [[User:Caerwine|Caerwine]] 23:11, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
===={{tl|DE-gov-stub}} (redirect)====
Redirects to {{tl|Delaware stub}}, as it was created and moved there today. Used on 1 article. However, DE is also the ISO code for Germany, and even a Delaware-gov-stub likely wouldn't get much use. '''Delete'''. --[[User:Mairi|Mairi]] 03:40, 16 October 2005 (UTC)
:'''delete'''. And now that {{tl|delaware stub}} has been moved to {{tl|delaware-stub}}, delete {{tl|Delaware stub}}, too! [[User:Grutness|Grutness]]...<font color=green><small>''[[User_talk:Grutness|wha?''</small></font>]] 05:46, 16 October 2005 (UTC)
:'''Del.''' [[User:BL Lacertae|<font color=red>BL]] [[User talk:BL Lacertae|<font color=gray><small>kiss the lizard</small></font>]] 08:16, 16 October 2005 (UTC)
:'''delete.''' I made it and once done realized I really wanted {{tl|Delaware-stub}}. Just learning. Please leave {{tl|Delaware stub}} as I will be using it more than some might think. [[User:Stilltim|stilltim]] 11:19, 16 October 2005 (UTC)
::The problem with {{tl|delaware stub}} is that it doesn't meet the formatting guidelines, because of the lack of a hyphen. The articles that use the {{tl|delaware stub}} tag instead of the {{tl|delaware-stub}} tag can easily be traced and appropriately edited. (this can be counted as a '''delete''' vote) [[User:Aecis|Aecis]] 11:32, 16 October 2005 (UTC)
:'''Delete''' {{tl|DE-gov-stub}}, {{tl|delaware stub}} and {{tl|delaware-stub}}. Not even close to viability threshold. Regional stub-cat is adequate until there are many more of these. [[User:Alai|Alai]] 01:54, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
===October 15th===
===={{tl|Netherlands-school-stub}} ====
Created today, no category (well it links to a non-existing category) and only used in one article. --[[User:Sherool|Sherool]] 19:42, 15 October 2005 (UTC)
:couldnt this one be useful? how many stubs are there in the school catagory from holland? [[User:BL Lacertae|<font color=red>BL]] [[User talk:BL Lacertae|<font color=gray><small>kiss the lizard</small></font>]] 08:16, 16 October 2005 (UTC)
:Just a note that we already have [[:Category:Universities in the Netherlands]] and [[:Category:Education in the Netherlands]] [[User:Sherurcij|Sherurcij]] 04:57, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
===={{tl|Belize-bio-stub}} / [[:Category:Belizean people stubs|Belizean people stubs]]====
Another one for pruning. Less than 10 entries for several months, as per [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia%3AWikiProject_Stub_sorting%2FStub_types&diff=25578431&oldid=25577770 this diff]. I propose this be deleted, and the stubs merged into its parent, {{tl|CentralAm-bio-stub}} (which contains <10 stub articles). --[[User:TheParanoidOne|TheParanoidOne]] 11:40, 15 October 2005 (UTC)
===={{tl|BurkinaFaso-stub}} / {{cl|Burkina Faso stubs}}====
This ''might'' just about be speediable. This category/template pair is used on a healthy 58 articles. Like to guess how many are geo-stubs? 58. That's right - this is really BurkinaFaso-''geo''-stub masquerading as a standard stub. With that many stubs (and a reasonable number still marked AfricaW-geo-stub) there shouldn't be any problem with it reaching threshold, but it desperately needs a '''rename'''. [[User:Grutness|Grutness]]...<font color=green><small>''[[User_talk:Grutness|wha?''</small></font>]] 09:05, 15 October 2005 (UTC) (PS - sorry to have added so much here today!)
*'''Rename''' - I don't think that this is very contraversial. --[[user:Celestianpower|Cel]]<font color=green>[[WP:EA|e]]</font>[[User:celestianpower|stianpower]] <sup>[[user talk:Celestianpower|hablamé]]</sup> 15:56, 15 October 2005 (UTC)
:'''Rename'''. [[User:BL Lacertae|<font color=red>BL]] [[User talk:BL Lacertae|<font color=gray><small>kiss the lizard</small></font>]] 08:16, 16 October 2005 (UTC)
====Serbia and Montenegro====
Currently, due to abbreviation and un-debated creation, this whole section is a bit of a mess. Currently we have:
*{{tl|Serbia-stub}} and {{cl|Serbia-related stubs}}
*{{tl|Serbia and Montenegro-stub}} and {{cl|Serbia and Montenegro-related stubs}} (little used)
*{{tl|SM-geo-stub}} and {{cl|Serbia and Montenegro geography stubs}}
As far as I see it:
*the "-related"s have to go.
*We don't need separate Serbia and Serbia and Montenegro categories
*There shouldn't be any spaces in the template name
*For obvious reasons, SM-stub is probably not a good idea.
I propose combining the first two into {{tl|SerbiaMontenegro-stub}} and {{cl|Serbia and Montenegro stubs}}, and keeping the third category but renaming the template as {{tl|SerbiaMontenegro-geo-stub}}. Alternatively, we could have separate Serbia-stub, Serbia-geo-stub, Montenegro-stub and Montenegro-geo-stub templates and equivalent categories.
[[User:Grutness|Grutness]]...<font color=green><small>''[[User_talk:Grutness|wha?''</small></font>]] 05:55, 15 October 2005 (UTC)
*I'd prefer the four-way split option. Works better for back-projection onto historical articles (ie, pre-Yugoslavian Serbia, Serbian culture etc.) and it ought to be easier to redistribute the latter two categories than the first. ALso, there seems to be a strong sense that [[Serbia and Montenegro]]'s days as a political entity are numbered, with a Montenegrin independence referendum likely to pass next year. -[[User:The Tom|The Tom]] 05:50, 16 October 2005 (UTC)
**I must admit I was thinking the same (about pre-empting the probable political split) [[User:Grutness|Grutness]]...<font color=green><small>''[[User_talk:Grutness|wha?''</small></font>]] 06:04, 16 October 2005 (UTC)
*The political split may be imminent, but as long as it hasn't occurred, it shouldn't matter in stub sorting. I suggest {{tl|SerbiaMontenegro-stub}} and {{tl|SerbiaMontenegro-geo-stub}} for articles about the nation as a whole, and {{tl|Serbia-stub}}/{{tl|Serbia-geo-stub}} / {{tl|Montenegro-stub}}/{{tl|Montenegro-geo-stub}} for articles relating to either of the constituent parts of Serbia-Montenegro (iff there are enough articles, the same might be considered for Vojvodina and Kosovo). This mirrors what has been done in {{tl|UK-geo-stub}}: daughters for England, Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales, and granddaughters for the counties (right?). [[User:Aecis|Aecis]] 11:40, 16 October 2005 (UTC)
* I don't see any problem with this. Have the categories renamed to omit the "-related", and two sets of stubs for each republic (even if they decide to remain the same country, chances are that it will still be a group of two distinct countries as it is today). --[[User:Joy|Joy <small><small>[shallot]</small></small>]] 00:12, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
**The only problem is the same one with all the categories that are almost totally subdivided - they have to be regularly emptied into their subcategories. otherwise eeverything that should be in the subcats will end up only being put into the main category (I bail about twelve stubs a day from {{cl|Geography stubs}} alone into its subcats). [[User:Grutness|Grutness]]...<font color=green><small>''[[User_talk:Grutness|wha?''</small></font>]] 05:21, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
*** I don't think there is any need for a top SCG geo-stub category, because relatively very few geographical features exist in both Serbia and Montenegro, and those that do can and should be double-stubbed with those two. The top SCG stub category might be useful for non-geographical issues that are shared. --[[User:Joy|Joy <small><small>[shallot]</small></small>]] 11:28, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
===={{tl|Agronomy-stub}} / {{cl|Agronomy stubs}}====
In the ten weeks since this was created it has been used twice. Useless. '''Delete'''. [[User:Grutness|Grutness]]...<font color=green><small>''[[User_talk:Grutness|wha?''</small></font>]] 05:38, 15 October 2005 (UTC)
===={{tl|Cigar-stub}} / {{cl|Cigar stubs}}====
In the twelve weeks since this was created it has been used three times. I doubt that even a gereral smoking stub would be useful - this one far less so. '''Delete'''. [[User:Grutness|Grutness]]...<font color=green><small>''[[User_talk:Grutness|wha?''</small></font>]] 05:38, 15 October 2005 (UTC)
:'''delete''' stub it out [[User:BL Lacertae|<font color=red>BL]] [[User talk:BL Lacertae|<font color=gray><small>kiss the lizard</small></font>]] 08:16, 16 October 2005 (UTC)
====Australian city stubs, part 3====
=====Perth=====
Given Mairi's comment under "Sydney" (below) about a stub I didn't know about, I'll add
*{{cl|Perth-related stubs}} → {{cl|Perth stubs}}, and
*{{tl|Perthstub}}(redirect) → '''deletion'''.
Anyone going to find a previously unknown Brisbane stub now? :/ [[User:Grutness|Grutness]]...<font color=green><small>''[[User_talk:Grutness|wha?''</small></font>]] 04:30, 15 October 2005 (UTC)
:'''Support''' both. And as far as I can tell, there isn't a Brisbane stub... --[[User:Mairi|Mairi]] 19:58, 15 October 2005 (UTC)
===={{tl|Crab-stub}} / {{cl|Crab stubs}}====
Currently used on 14 articles. However, there's already {{tl|crustacean-stub}}, which is used on 100 articles. And given the small number of crab stubs there (<10 in the first half), it seems doubtful this will get near 60 stubs. '''Delete''' --[[User:Mairi|Mairi]] 03:14, 15 October 2005 (UTC)
====Rename {{tl|Phil-lit-stub}} and {{cl|Philippine literature stubs}}====
The current template name would imply it's for philosphy literature. Furthermore, all 31 articles it's used on are writers. '''Rename''' to {{tl|Philippine-writer-stub}} (or some other more suitable name). --[[User:Mairi|Mairi]] 03:23, 15 October 2005 (UTC)
:I think there was some talk of a {{tl|Philippine-bio-stub}} when this was first discovered... Is that necessary, or just the writer-specific one, or both? '''Rename''' to ''something'', anyway. --[[User:Alynna.Kasmira|Alynna]] 03:27, 15 October 2005 (UTC)
::Shouldn't that be {{tl|Philippines-writer-stub}} or {{tl|Philippines-bio-stub}} with an 's' at the end?
:::Yes, it should. [[User:Mairi|Mairi]] 05:07, 15 October 2005 (UTC)
===October 14th===
===={{tl|kuwait-bio-stub}} / [[:Category:Kuwaiti people stubs|Kuwaiti people stubs]]====
Another one for pruning. This category has had less than 10 entries for several months now, as per [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia%3AWikiProject_Stub_sorting%2FStub_types&diff=25539374&oldid=25499684 this diff]. I propose this be deleted, and the stubs merged into its parent, {{tl|MEast-bio-stub}} (which contains <100 stub articles). --[[User:TheParanoidOne|TheParanoidOne]] 22:36, 14 October 2005 (UTC)
:I concur. --[[User:Alynna.Kasmira|Alynna]] 00:36, 15 October 2005 (UTC)
==== {{tl|bike-stub}} ====
'''Delete''' - it duplicates {{tl|cycling-stub}}. Used by 5 articles, it adds articles directly to [[:Category:Transportation]]. --[[User:Vclaw|Vclaw]] 22:29, 14 October 2005 (UTC)
* '''Delete''' - {{tl|cycling-stub}} is not so large that bikes need to be separated from it. --[[User:Alynna.Kasmira|Alynna]] 00:36, 15 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' Ambiguous as well - "bike" can mean motorcycle. [[User:Grutness|Grutness]]...<font color=green><small>''[[User_talk:Grutness|wha?''</small></font>]] 06:01, 15 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Speedy delete''' - was listed at [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Stub sorting/Discoveries#bike-stub]] since May 12 without remedy, it's time for it to go. --[[User:Joy|Joy <small><small>[shallot]</small></small>]] 11:45, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
===October 13th===
===={{cl|United States football club stubs}} to {{cl|United States football (soccer) club stubs}} or {{cl|United States soccer club stubs}}====
I created this category in order to reduce the load of {{tl|footy-stub}}. However, I forgot to take into consideration the problems with the term "football" in the American context. The current category name does not make it clear enough that the articles are about what in the US would be called soccer clubs, so I request a rename for this category. [[User:Aecis|Aecis]] 23:04, 13 October 2005 (UTC)
:Sounds fair... the non-stub category this relates to is "United States soccer clubs", so I'd probably go for that one. Then again... the original proposal had the parentheses... sigh. A rename is definite, but... which to? [[User:Grutness|Grutness]]...<font color=green><small>''[[User_talk:Grutness|wha?''</small></font>]] 10:46, 14 October 2005 (UTC)
::I'd say {{cl|United States soccer club stubs}} - "football (soccer)" is only really necessary if the category covers an area where both terms are used. [[User:Sjorford|sjorford]] [[User talk:Sjorford|<small>#£@%&$?!</small>]] 15:37, 14 October 2005 (UTC)
:::I would say {{cl|United States football (soccer) club stubs}}, for two reasons. Firstly because the article about the sport is called "football (soccer)", and not for instance Association Football (the official name of the sport), and secondly, because the category is a daughter of {{cl|Football (soccer) stubs}}. [[User:Aecis|Aecis]] 20:07, 14 October 2005 (UTC)
::That's not necessary - there are plenty of articles that say just "football" or "soccer" in the right context. The only ones that don't are those that cover football throughout the world, where either name might be used. See for example, [[:Category:Football (soccer) by country]] - all use one term or the other (apart from [[:Category:Canadian football (soccer)]], which probably ought to be changed). [[User:Sjorford|sjorford]] [[User talk:Sjorford|<small>#£@%&$?!</small>]] 19:36, 16 October 2005 (UTC)
:::You're absolutely right about the use of football and/or soccer. And you're also right when you say that it's not really necessary to use the word football. Soccer in itself is clear and unambiguous enough. The category itself imo definitely needs soccer in the name, because it relates to the US of A. I still think that using the word "football" might be desirable though, if just for the sake of some consistency. [[User:Aecis|Aecis]] 22:42, 16 October 2005 (UTC)
===={{tl|Swedish-politician-stub}} → {{tl|Sweden-politician-stub}} <br> {{cl|Swedish politician stubs}} → {{cl|Sweden politician stubs}}====
We definitely follow a standard of always using a national noun rather than a national adjective in the stub template. The consensus seems that it would be a good idea to do the same with the categories, and since changing the stub will require restubbing anyway, it would be best to change the category at the same time if it is to be done. [[User:Caerwine|Caerwine]] 16:00, 13 October 2005 (UTC)
:A definite '''rename''' for the template. A weaker one for the category - we've got an awful lot of categories named like this, and "Sweden politician stubs" does sound a little stilted. Nouns seems a good way to go, though - although we also need to keep in mind the names of the main categories they're based on. I'm...just unsure. [[User:Grutness|Grutness]]...<font color=green><small>''[[User_talk:Grutness|wha?''</small></font>]] 23:03, 13 October 2005 (UTC)
::I suppose we could always follow the single example of {{cl|People from Quebec stubs}} and go for something like {{cl|Politicians from Sweden stubs}} if we value euphony over brevity. [[User:Caerwine|Caerwine]] 20:13, 14 October 2005 (UTC)
:::Definitely '''rename''' the template, but the category doesn't seem to do much harm as it is, and personally, I'd try to stay consistent with [[:Category:Swedish politicians]]. '''[[User:Jaxl|<font color = "darkblue">Rob</font>]][[Wikipedia:Esperanza|<font color = "green">e</font>]][[User talk:Jaxl|<font color = "darkblue">rt</font>]]''' 00:22, 15 October 2005 (UTC)
===={{tl|State forest-stub}} / {{cl|State forest stubs}}====
'''Delete'''. This was discussed jointly with the state park stub last month; let's discuss them one at a time. The {{cl|State forest stubs}} category is empty; in my opinion it should not exist because any state forest article stub in the future should go into the appropriate stub category for the geographic region. — [[User:Fingers-of-Pyrex|Fingers-of-Pyrex]] 12:29, 13 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Delete'''. The reason this is empty is that all that was in there were a handful of lists and - as has been discussed elsewhere, lists (by definition) are not stubs. They were better served by the new {{cl|Lists of U.S. state forests by state}}, where they 9and all the other similar lists I could find) now reside. It's far more likely that editors will know stubs about specific states than about forests nationwide, anyway. [[User:Grutness|Grutness]]...<font color=green><small>''[[User_talk:Grutness|wha?''</small></font>]] 12:50, 13 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Delete'''; this is unnecessary. --[[User:Alynna.Kasmira|Alynna]] 00:36, 15 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''delete''' why keep it if noones using it. [[User:BL Lacertae|<font color=red>BL]] [[User talk:BL Lacertae|<font color=gray><small>kiss the lizard</small></font>]] 08:16, 16 October 2005 (UTC)
===October 12th===
===={{tl|New Hampshire-stub}} (redirect)====
Created as a new stub type by a new WikiProject, who didn't realise there were naming guidelines for stubs. It's now been moved to {{tl|NewHampshire-stub}}, leaving this incorrectly named redirect which should be '''delete'''d. [[User:Grutness|Grutness]]...<font color=green><small>''[[User_talk:Grutness|wha?''</small></font>]] 06:22, 12 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Speedy delete'''. — [[User:Fingers-of-Pyrex|Fingers-of-Pyrex]] 12:22, 13 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' --[[User:Alynna.Kasmira|Alynna]] 00:36, 15 October 2005 (UTC)
===October 11th===
===={{tl|Pennsylvania-stub}}====
{{tl|Pennsylvania-stub}} was discovered on 1 October 2005. It's unused, and it has no category. No wikiproject exists for [[Pennsylvania]]. '''Delete'''. — [[User:Fingers-of-Pyrex|Fingers-of-Pyrex]] 15:51, 11 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' --[[User:Alynna.Kasmira|Alynna]] 00:36, 15 October 2005 (UTC)
===={{cl|Female-related stubs}} → {{cl|Feminism stubs}}====
The parentage and text of the category indicates that it's for feminism, while the template text, since June, says "female-related" (the template as had both wordings in the past). Almost all the marked articles are about feminism. Female-related poses several problems, including cutting across multiple existing categories (medicine, psychology, politics, etc). '''Rename''' (either way, the template/category need to be clarified). --[[User:Mairi|Mairi]] 23:32, 10 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''rename''' - yes, the name is misleading and possibly more than a little demeaning as well. [[User:Grutness|Grutness]]...<font color=green><small>''[[User_talk:Grutness|wha?''</small></font>]] 00:23, 11 October 2005 (UTC)
*Definitely '''rename'''. --[[User:Alynna.Kasmira|Alynna]] 00:36, 15 October 2005 (UTC)
*<s>rename to {{cl|Grrl stubs}}</s> '''rename''' [[User:BL Lacertae|<font color=red>BL]] [[User talk:BL Lacertae|<font color=gray><small>kiss the lizard</small></font>]] 08:16, 16 October 2005 (UTC)
===={{cl|United States television programme stubs}} → {{cl|United States television program stubs}}====
''(Was tagged with {{tl|cfr}} by [[User:Jayc]], but not listed on [[WP:CFD]])''<br>
There's been some discussion on the [[Category talk:United States television programme stubs|talk page]]. "Program" is the common spelling in the US, and [[Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style#National_varieties_of_English|Manual of Style]] recommends using the relevant national variety of English for country-specific pages. And I can't think of any strong need for consistency in stub category names, unlike templates (although if there is, they could all be renamed to 'television series', which is used by most the main categories). '''Rename'''. -[[User:Mairi|Mairi]] 05:02, 11 October 2005 (UTC)
*''Rename''' render unto the US etc etc etc. [[User:Grutness|Grutness]]...<font color=green><small>''[[User_talk:Grutness|wha?''</small></font>]] 07:42, 11 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Rename to''' [[:Category:United States television series stubs]] - [[User:SoM|SoM]] 21:06, 12 October 2005 (UTC)
**Mmm... what about stubs for one-off specials? I think "...programs" is the better name to cover all bases. [[User:Grutness|Grutness]]...<font color=green><small>''[[User_talk:Grutness|wha?''</small></font>]] 00:22, 13 October 2005 (UTC)
*Definitely rename to '''''program'''''. As for ''series'' v. ''programs'' why not just '''''United States television stubs''''' without narrowing it any moe than that. [[User:Jengod|jengod]] 20:48, 13 October 2005 (UTC)
**Because then you'll get personalities, stations, etc etc etc. [[User:Grutness|Grutness]]...<font color=green><small>''[[User_talk:Grutness|wha?''</small></font>]] 22:49, 13 October 2005 (UTC)
====Australian city stubs, part 2====
I left the two big cities until after the others were done, because they probably need a bot (I did the changeover of the others manually). These changes are as per recent discussions at [[WP:WSS/P#Australian cities]]
=====Melbourne=====
*{{tl|melstub}} → {{tl|Melbourne-stub}}
*{{cl|Melbourne-related stubs}} → {{cl|Melbourne stubs}}
This has over 500 articles, so it will need a bot. Mind you, many of them should bein this second category, which currently has only 11 articles:
*{{tl|mel-suburb-stub}}→ {{tl|Melbourne-geo-stub}}
*{{cl|Melbourne suburb stubs}} → {{cl|Melbourne geography stubs}}
This would bring Melbourne into line with everywhere else on the planet as far as stub naming is concerned, and would be in line with recent changes to the Adelaide, Canberra, and Hobart stubs. [[User:Grutness|Grutness]]...<font color=green><small>''[[User_talk:Grutness|wha?''</small></font>]] 07:42, 11 October 2005 (UTC)
'''rename''' as suggested. Consistency is good. [[User:Agnte|Agnte]] 16:40, 14 October 2005 (UTC)
'''Rename'''. Keeps most of Wiki's presentation up to scratch. --[[User:Tetsuya-san|Tetsuya-san]] 00:17, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
=====Sydney=====
*{{tl|Sydney suburb stub}}→ {{tl|Sydney-geo-stub}}
*{{cl|Sydney suburb stubs}} → {{cl|Sydney geography stubs}}
As above, this would bring Sydney into line with everywhere else on the planet as far as stub naming is concerned, and would be in line with recent changes to the Adelaide, Canberra, and Hobart stubs. This would also probably need a bot, since there are about 350 stubs. [[User:Grutness|Grutness]]...<font color=green><small>''[[User_talk:Grutness|wha?''</small></font>]] 07:42, 11 October 2005 (UTC)
: If my maths is correct then it will be in the region of 680 "Sydney suburb stub" articles now, since there was a push by myself and others to flesh out the missing suburbs. If a bot can do the changeover then I think it's a good idea, but if they have to be done by hand then I think it's a bad idea that's not worth it. -- All the best, [[User:Nickj|Nickj]] [[User talk:Nickj|(t)]] 07:47, 12 October 2005 (UTC)
::A shame that push wasn't left until after the changeover, but still (it was announced at the Sydney WikiProject that a change was likely very soon) - currently about 2000 japan-geo-stubs are being changed over by hand, so it would just be a bigger job without a bot, not impossible. [[User:Grutness|Grutness]]...<font color=green><small>''[[User_talk:Grutness|wha?''</small></font>]] 00:25, 13 October 2005 (UTC)
'''rename''' for both Melbourne and Sydney for consistency with the other Australian cities. If there are too many Sydney suburb stubs (now a complete set thanks to Nick and others) to rename, I suppose that could be kept as a subcat of the new {{tl|Sydney-geo-stub}}, and dissolved once most suburb articles have grown beyond stub status. No {{tl|Sydney-stub}}/{{cl|Sydney stubs}}? --[[User:ScottDavis|Scott Davis]] <sup>[[User talk:ScottDavis|Talk]]</sup> 11:54, 14 October 2005 (UTC)
*None currently exists - and there aren't currently any separate stubs for Perth o Brisbane, which is a bit of a surprise. Hopefully if they're needed the WikiProjects will contact us first, now that they know we exist :) [[User:Grutness|Grutness]]...<font color=green><small>''[[User_talk:Grutness|wha?''</small></font>]] 01:30, 15 October 2005 (UTC)
**There actually is a (rather-unused) {{tl|Perth-stub}} that's been sitting around on [[WP:WSS/D]] for a month and a half... --[[User:Mairi|Mairi]] 01:41, 15 October 2005 (UTC)
'''rename''' both as suggested for consistency. --[[User:Alynna.Kasmira|Alynna]] 00:36, 15 October 2005 (UTC)
===October 10th===
===={{cl|Party related stubs}} → {{cl|Political party stubs}}====
This move would do three things: 1) Bring it in line with its non-stub parent {{cl|Political parties}}; 2) remove that word "related"; 3) stop people potentially adding stubs about social get-togethers. '''Rename'''? [[User:Grutness|Grutness]]...<font color=green><small>''[[User_talk:Grutness|wha?''</small></font>]] 07:34, 10 October 2005 (UTC)
:I could agree, but it will take a lot of work to do, since one has to visit all these stubs to rename the stub-category. Is there another solution. - [[User:Wilfried Derksen|Electionworld]] 08:38, 10 October 2005 (UTC)
::Well, there are two solutions - firstly a bot, since it's obvious which stubs need to be changed, and they would all simply need a null edit (in which case there would be virtually no work); secondly, I've put in a proposal at [[WP:WSS/P]] to split some subcategories off this, which would reduce the number of stubs in the category (in which case the articles would need re-stubbing anyway). [[User:Grutness|Grutness]]...<font color=green><small>''[[User_talk:Grutness|wha?''</small></font>]] 09:30, 10 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Rename''' for clarity and consistency --[[User:Alynna.Kasmira|Alynna]] 00:36, 15 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Rename'''. --[[User:Joy|Joy <small><small>[shallot]</small></small>]] 11:33, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
===={{tl|WV-road-stub}}====
Pretty sure this one wasn't debated - if it had been, it would have been at {{tl|WestVirginia-road-stub}}, the name to which I've redirected it. Since it's now at the new name, this incorrectly named one can be '''delete'''d. [[User:Grutness|Grutness]]...<font color=green><small>''[[User_talk:Grutness|wha?''</small></font>]] 07:08, 10 October 2005 (UTC)
*It actually was [[Wikipedia:WikiProject_Stub_sorting/Proposals#A_whole_bunch_of_road_stubs.2C_part_2|proposed]], with some debate too, including mention that 2-letter postal abbrevations are undesirable. '''Delete'''. --[[User:Mairi|Mairi]] 21:05, 10 October 2005 (UTC)
*I agree... I'd prefer that it was at {{tl|West-Virginia-State-Highway-Stub}}, but to prevent further strife I accepted the old name. But it was proposed... I don't always create the road stubs immediately after they are approved (I like to do them in batches), and I didn't create this one. --'''[[User:Rschen7754|Rschen7754]] ([[User_talk:Rschen7754|talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Rschen7754|contribs]])''' 01:14, 11 October 2005 (UTC)
::Sorry - I hadn't noticed the original proposal (that page is just so damn big I'm bound to miss a few) - but the name's not a good one anyway, so... XX-State-Highway-Stub would limit it to state highways, whereas XX-road-stub allows for urban raods and streets as well, so it's a bit more all inclusive. In any case, I still think that all the XX-State-Highway-Stub names need renaming (that would be such a long job, though, that I'm not ready to propose it any time soon). [[User:Grutness|Grutness]]...<font color=green><small>''[[User_talk:Grutness|wha?''</small></font>]] 03:59, 11 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' per above --[[User:Alynna.Kasmira|Alynna]] 00:36, 15 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Delete''', as per the discussion in that self-same moving-target proposal. [[User:Alai|Alai]] 05:54, 15 October 2005 (UTC)
==Old business==
<!-- END OF COMMENT PHASE -->
<div class="boilerplate metadata" id="Old Business" style="{{divstyleamber}}">Everything from here on down is old business; the current 7-day review period has ended. Everything from this point on should be dealt with and removed from the workflow. Move ''this'' marker up as time passes.</div>
===October 6th===
===={{tl|Eng-club-stub}} to {{tl|England-footyclub-stub}}====
This category should be renamed, according to the guidelines set by WP:WSS/P. [[User:Aecis|Aecis]] 18:37, 6 October 2005 (UTC)
*definite '''rename'''. [[User:Grutness|Grutness]]...<font color=green><small>''[[User_talk:Grutness|wha?''</small></font>]] 23:16, 6 October 2005 (UTC)
*Indeed it should :) --[[User:Joy|Joy <small><small>[shallot]</small></small>]] 11:25, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
====[[:Category:Football (soccer) player stubs]] to [[:Category:Football (soccer) biography stubs]]====
This category contains more biographies than just player biographies. As the category itself says, "while the category was originally envisioned only for players, non-playing personnel (managers, coaches, chairmen, executives) can also be included in this category, as long as they are directly connected to the sport." I think a rename is needed to better fit the articles in this category.. [[User:Aecis|Aecis]] 11:48, 5 October 2005 (UTC)
:Renaming for stub categories must be directed to [[Wikipedia:Stub types for deletion]]. -- [[user:Rick Block|Rick Block]] <small>([[user talk:Rick Block|talk]])</small> 04:05, 6 October 2005 (UTC)
:Moved from [[WP:CFD]] missed it earlier. <font color=#000000>[[Special:Contributions/Who|∞]]</font>[[User:Who|Who]][[User talk:Who|<font color=#FF0033>?</font><font color=#FF00FF>¿</font><font color=#0033FF>?</font>]] 04:40, 6 October 2005 (UTC)
**'''Rename''' - good point. There will be managers, coaches, etc in here too. [[User:Grutness|Grutness]]...<font color=green><small>''[[User_talk:Grutness|wha?''</small></font>]] 06:21, 6 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Comment''': Perhaps it would be better to keep this category, plus create additional related and daughter stubs+categories. If you look at the category, the first page doesn't even get all the way through the letter A. Someone more familiar with [[fútbol]] will have to suggest the best way to divide up the articles. [[User:BlankVerse|<font color=green>''Blank''</font><font color= #F88017>''Verse''</font>]]<font color=#2554C7> </font>[[User talk:BlankVerse|<font color=#F660AB>∅</font>]] 11:36, 8 October 2005 (UTC)
**Well, that would be an obvious one, I'd say - by nationality, in much the same way as the clubs are in the process of being divided. A large proportion of the managers and coaches are former players, but there are still some that aren't, and I'd be happier if they were kept in with the main category since the same editors are likely to know about them. I'd go ahead with the proposed move, but consider tallying up what nationalities can be split off. There are some that would just about be guaranteed (England, Italy, France, Germany, Brazil, and Argentina, to name just six). [[User:Grutness|Grutness]]...<font color=green><small>''[[User_talk:Grutness|wha?''</small></font>]] 11:51, 8 October 2005 (UTC)
***I've gone through about 15% of the stubs (not ''particularly'' randomly), and found: English 59; Scottish 21; Norwegian, Australian 12; Northern Irish 10; Belgian, German, Turkish, Guinean, Brazilian 9; Argentinian 8 (out of 333 checked, of 2206 total). I'd say English and Scottish are fair enough, but the rest are only just big enough to warrant their own stub types. It might be best to split most by continent instead of country: I counted Europe 214 (including Eng/Scot), Africa 54, South America 24, and about 15 for each of the others. This way, the estimated totals for each category would be about: England 400, Scotland 140, Rest of Europe 900 (with possible further splits once we see exactly how many there are of each), Africa 350, South America 170, North America/Asia/Oceania 100 each. (Phew!) [[User:Sjorford|sjorford]] [[User talk:Sjorford|<small>#£@%&$?!</small>]] 13:58, 8 October 2005 (UTC)
**Okay, those sound fair splits to me (by continent, plus the England and Scotland ones) - take this over to [[WP:WSS/P]] and run it past everyone there! [[User:Grutness|Grutness]]...<font color=green><small>''[[User_talk:Grutness|wha?''</small></font>]] 22:35, 8 October 2005 (UTC)
***On its way... BTW, I agree with the renaming as well, just to be clear. [[User:Sjorford|sjorford]] [[User talk:Sjorford|<small>#£@%&$?!</small>]] 09:27, 9 October 2005 (UTC)
===October 2nd===
===={{tl|HRF-bio-stub}}====
Apparently for people who recieve the title [[Hero of the Russian Federation]]. Which cuts across standard categories, seems not particularly useful, and has very few suitable articles. '''Delete'''. --[[User:Mairi|Mairi]] 04:52, 2 October 2005 (UTC)
:How does it cut across standard categories? [[User:Zscout370|Zach]] [[User_talk:Zscout370|(Sound Off)]] 04:57, 2 October 2005 (UTC) (creator of the stub template)
::The standard is to divide by occupation (such as writier, politician and military being common) after dividing by country, and this isn't specific to any occupation. --[[User:Mairi|Mairi]] 05:13, 2 October 2005 (UTC)
:::That I can agree on. While most of the awardings went to Chechnya veterans or cosmonauts, atheletes and some writters recieved the title. The main reason why I created the template is that not only this is only showing that it is not only a subject that relates to Russia, but it (mainly) establishes notability, which is very picky on here. If there was a central website, like with the [[Order of Canada]], that lists everyone who got the hero title, I would have used that instead. [[User:Zscout370|Zach]] [[User_talk:Zscout370|(Sound Off)]] 05:18, 2 October 2005 (UTC)
::::There is the woefully incomplete [[List of heroes of the Russian Federation]]. Establishing notability would also be accomplished by mentioning the title in the article. It's possible there'd be enough articles for a stub relating to Russian military, or the space program (I don't follow bio stubs closely enough to know). --[[User:Mairi|Mairi]] 05:28, 2 October 2005 (UTC)
:::::I am checking that now, and I also happened to create that list. Once it gets to a good size, it will be transwikied (hopefully). [[User:Zscout370|Zach]] [[User_talk:Zscout370|(Sound Off)]] 05:35, 2 October 2005 (UTC)
::::::But since this is a keep/delete situation, I personally will side (and this should not be a big shock), but '''keep.''' I will happy to see this go after a while, but I am going to create these type stubs in the next few years, so they should meet Grutness's 50 article rule. [[User:Zscout370|Zach]] [[User_talk:Zscout370|(Sound Off)]] 06:46, 2 October 2005 (UTC)
'''Delete''' It only has 10 stubs now and it doesn't fit into our existing schemes. However, if there were a WikiProject associated with the Heroes of the Russian Federation, I could see keeping it. There are other ways of keeping track of articles about the Heroes of the Russian Federation that need work, such as [[:Category:Hero of the Russian Federation]] or [[List of heroes of the Russian Federation]] if it is a purely personal endeavour. [[User:Caerwine|Caerwine]] 01:20, 3 October 2005 (UTC)
*I am meerly just getting them up to stub status, then could work on them in the future, but I do not see how this does not work out to a "current scheme." But, I have let the folks know at the [[Portal:Russia]] about the creation of this template and that I am using it now. [[User:Zscout370|Zach]] [[User_talk:Zscout370|(Sound Off)]] 01:29, 3 October 2005 (UTC)
**I still don't see any reason to not use {{tl|Russia-bio-stub}} in combination with {{cl|Hero of the Russian Federation}} until there actually are 60 stubs. [[User:Caerwine|Caerwine]] 19:50, 3 October 2005 (UTC)
***So, until that time comes, can I merge the template into the bio-stub template? [[User:Zscout370|Zach]] [[User_talk:Zscout370|(Sound Off)]] 19:52, 3 October 2005 (UTC)
====Rename [[:Category:Historical Fiction book stubs]] -> [[:Category:Historical fiction book stubs]]====
More standard capitalization. And easier to do while it's still relatively new. --[[User:Mairi|Mairi]] 21:19, 2 October 2005 (UTC)
:CFD would regard this as a speedy rename. Though we don't have set rules for speedying here, I don't see any reason why this shouldn't be counted in the same way. [[User:Grutness|Grutness]]...<font color=green><small>''[[User_talk:Grutness|wha?''</small></font>]] 00:20, 4 October 2005 (UTC)
===September 26th===
====Rename [[:Template:UK-depot-stub]] --> [[:Template:UK-railstation-stub]]====
I just saw this and had a "What the..." moment, since it's not for depots at all, but for railway stations. [[Depot]] = place where stuff is stored temporarily before being moved off. A railway depot is somewhere trains are stored overnight, with not a passenger in sight. A railway station is somewhere passengers get on the trains. They're not even [[synonym]]s. WTH happened here? - [[User:SoM|SoM]] 15:03, 27 September 2005 (UTC)
*'''Rename'''. Depot can also refer to things that aren't train-related. However, the second sentence of depot does say "It most often means a [[train station]]..." --[[User:Mairi|Mairi]] 15:57, 27 September 2005 (UTC)
*'''Comment'''. Although I agree that the term depot is not the most usual word for this in British/International English, it was named this way after quite a lengthly debate so as to be in line with other stub categories on such buildings. The term "station" - even as part of a compound such as "railstation", was deliberately avoided, since at that time "station-stub" referred to broadcast stations. It might be time to revisit this now, but if it is, then all similar stub names ({{tl|US-depot-stub}}, for example) should be similarly renamed for consistency. [[User:Grutness|Grutness]]...<font color=green><small>''[[User_talk:Grutness|wha?''</small></font>]] 00:21, 28 September 2005 (UTC)
**'''Comment'''. For reference, here's what I could find of that discussion: [[Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Stub sorting/Criteria#Problem with the new station stubs]] and [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Stub sorting/Criteria/Archive14]]. Station-stub has also been moved to broadcast-stub, and the redirect was then deleted. --[[User:Mairi|Mairi]] 00:41, 28 September 2005 (UTC)
**'''Comment''', well, rename them all then. If this is intended for railway stations, referring to freight depots is hugely nonintuitive. It's not "not the most common term," it's simply not used. No-one would ever say "I'm going down to the local depot to catch a train," they'd say "station," possibly prefixing train or railway to it. And the stations are called X Station, not X Depot. - [[User:SoM|SoM]] 00:58, 28 September 2005 (UTC)
***Times must have changed since I was a young trainspotter in north London. The term certainly ''was'' used for railway station. Not often, but occasionally. [[User:Grutness|Grutness]]...<font color=green><small>''[[User_talk:Grutness|wha?''</small></font>]] 01:34, 28 September 2005 (UTC)
***I also hear it used occasionally for railway station, in Washington DC and nearby states. --[[User:Mairi|Mairi]] 02:18, 28 September 2005 (UTC)
****I don't think times have changed enough for them to be in the UK, though! :) [[User:Grutness|Grutness]]...<font color=green><small>''[[User_talk:Grutness|wha?''</small></font>]] 07:21, 28 September 2005 (UTC)
*'''Rename'''. I think sometimes used for railways in the sense of bus [[depot]], as well as the freight usage, but not for just any old station. And in any case, the depots are often physically separate from the stations. [[User:Alai|Alai]] 04:59, 29 September 2005 (UTC)
*'''Rename'''. Notionally all British passenger railway stations '''were''' also depots and those that weren't were called X Halt or Y Platform so that shippers knew not to sent parcels or goods there. This was in the days when railways were common carriers and are long gone. Stations that accepted goods and not passenger tended to be called "goods stations", repair-shops and the like were, sometimes, called depots - but there were (of course) regional and company variations. [[User:Saga City|Saga City]] 14:07, 30 September 2005 (UTC)
*'''Keep''', at least until there are less than 300 stubs that use this template. At the moment, there are no less than 922 stubs that have this attached to them. Since the term is used to refer to both freight and passenger facilities, and readers don't see the stub name itself, expand those articles so that they no longer need the stub template. Although another 922 edits would help increase my own standing in [[WP:1000]], there are other tasks here that will use my time better. [[User:Slambo|slambo]] 15:39, 1 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Comment'''. I haven't looked, but I'm confident that most of those 922 articles will be about passenger stations. As far as railways in Britain are concerned, a ''depot'' is a train storage/maintenance facility or a place for freight to be loaded/unloaded, never a place for passengers to get on or off trains. For instance, if you asked someone where "Waterloo Depot" was, they wouldn't know what you meant! However, the text of the stub template is fine, so as long as editors are aware of the template name, and are (grudgingly) willing to put up with it, it shouldn't be a problem. --[[User:RFBailey|RFBailey]] 12:55, 2 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Rename'''. The current name is hugely non-intuitive and, certainly for the article I spotted it on, it is also wrong! In the context of public transport in the United Kingdom, depot exlcusively means a place where the busses/trains are storred and/or maintained. I am not aware of any train depots that routinely allow public access - even when they are on the same site as a boarding/disembarking place the latter will be called X station and the former X depot. What international useage is is irrelevant as this is explicitly for UK railway topics. [[User:Thryduulf|Thryduulf]] 18:55, 16 October 2005 (UTC)
===September 12th===
====<s>{{tl|playwright-stub}} / no category</s>====
Currently empty, this stub feeds into {{cl|Writer stubs}}. The overlapping nature of various forms makes this sort of differentiation tricky (which is probably why {{tl|poet-stub}} redirects to {{tl|writer-stub}}) As this one is empty, I would say delete this one, but a redirect seems reasonable also. [[User:Caerwine|Caerwine]] 00:14, 12 September 2005 (UTC)
*We've not been splitting writers by type of work, so '''delete'''. [[User:Grutness|Grutness]]...<font color=green><small>''[[User_talk:Grutness|wha?''</small></font>]] 05:51, 12 September 2005 (UTC)
* This is somewhat different from poet-stub, but the same rationale applies as below. (Keep.) --[[User:Joy|Joy <small><small>[shallot]</small></small>]] 13:19, 16 September 2005 (UTC)
* '''Comment''' At this point, I think it's reasonable to say that there's enough consensus to turn this into a redirect, but not enough to delete it. Anyway, I'll wait until Monday, and f there's no disagreement, I'll remove the {sfd-t}'s for this and {poet-stub} and make this one into a redirect. [[User:Caerwine|Caerwine]] 05:14, 15 October 2005 (UTC)
**Sounds fair. Same with the poet-stub? [[User:Grutness|Grutness]]...<font color=green><small>''[[User_talk:Grutness|wha?''</small></font>]] 05:29, 15 October 2005 (UTC)
** It's Monday here :) and I replaced playwright-stub with a redirect to writer-stub. --[[User:Joy|Joy <small><small>[shallot]</small></small>]] 11:31, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
===={{tl|poet-stub}} (redirect)====
Currently empty, this stub redirects to {{tl|writer-stub}}. With this now empty, this would be a good time to delete the redirect while we're in the middle of doing a reorganization of the writer stubs. [[User:Caerwine|Caerwine]] 00:24, 12 September 2005 (UTC)
*We've not been splitting writers by type of work, so '''delete'''. [[User:Grutness|Grutness]]...<font color=green><small>''[[User_talk:Grutness|wha?''</small></font>]] 05:51, 12 September 2005 (UTC)
* First off, this is not an "empty" stub with "no category", it is a redirect from an alternate name. I've even listed it on the list of redirects. Secondly, why the hell does such a redirect hurt? It's a known categorization method (poets vs. novelists vs. technical writers vs. whatever) that may help one day if we do start splitting on that criteria as well. Sure, in the meantime it may get trumped by a ___location-based split, but why does it bother you right now? My reaction may sound a bit over the top, but given that we still have thousands of people stubs to sort, I can't fathom how removing an intuitive stub redirect would help any cause whatsoever. --[[User:Joy|Joy <small><small>[shallot]</small></small>]] 08:54, 12 September 2005 (UTC)
**Redirects put more strain on the servers, since two templates are called up every time one is used - that's why we've been slowly trying to get rid of a lot of the ones that are rarely used.
*** But you're contradicting yourself there. The amount of strain put on the servers when you're talking about a redirect accessed ''rarely'' is trivial compared to normal traffic. --[[User:Joy|Joy <small><small>[shallot]</small></small>]]
** Also, a lot of poets are not ''only'' poets. Many many writers write in a lot of different genres, so splitting by type of writing isn't always that helpful. If we want to split by poets, or playwrights, or novelists, or whatever, we can definitely keep it in mind for later, but I really don't think it would ever be a particularly useful split. [[User:Grutness|Grutness]]...<font color=green><small>''[[User_talk:Grutness|wha?''</small></font>]] 10:38, 12 September 2005 (UTC)
*** I agree that splitting by type would increase the amount of double-stubbing, but I don't think that the latter is inherently wrong, on the contrary. --[[User:Joy|Joy <small><small>[shallot]</small></small>]] 13:23, 12 September 2005 (UTC)
*I am at a bit of a disadvantage, having not been involved in the reorganization mentioned above, but as a data point, I found out about the proposed deletion when I added a poet-stub tag to an article about a poet... --[[User:Daedalus-Prime|Daedalus-Prime]] 19:46, 3 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Keep'''. I'm in the same position as [[User:Daedalus-Prime|Daedalus-Prime]]. If there had been no stub, I'd have been puzzled, and would have suggested its creation. Many, many poets are either wholly or overwhelmingly known only for their poetry. --[[User:Mel Etitis|Mel Etitis]] ([[User talk:Mel Etitis|<font color="green">Μελ Ετητης</font>)]] 23:16, 6 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Keep or create'''. I find it somewhat useful, especially when changing poetry stub into poet stub. --[[User:Piotrus|Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus]] <sup>[[User_talk:Piotrus|Talk]]</sup> 00:33, 15 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Comment''' I think it's safe to say that this proposal is at best a no consensus. [[User:Caerwine|Caerwine]] 05:07, 15 October 2005 (UTC)
*Removed the SfD notice from this redirect. [[User:Caerwine|Caerwine]] 23:27, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
===September 10th===
===={{tl|Bible-stub}} (redirect)====
Redirects to {{tl|HeBible-stub}}. However, "Bible" refers to things other than the Hebrew Bible (such as the Christian Bible), so the redirect is misleading and ought to be deleted. It is also currently unused. --[[User:Mairi|Mairi]] 20:33, 10 September 2005 (UTC)
*''Comment''' does HeBible-stub need a rename? It doesnt look like a brilliant name. [[User:BL Lacertae|BL Lacertae]] 00:25, 11 September 2005 (UTC)
**Good point, it probably could do with a re-name. Any suggestions? [[User:Grutness|Grutness]]...<font color=green><small>''[[User_talk:Grutness|wha?''</small></font>]] 05:56, 12 September 2005 (UTC)
*** Should prob. have NT-Bible-stub and Bible-stub for deutoerocanonical books and apocrypha. [[User:Rich Farmbrough|Rich Farmbrough]] 21:10, 15 September 2005 (UTC)
*** Er, how about simply expanding the "He" into {{tl|HebrewBible-stub}}. --[[User:Joy|Joy <small><small>[shallot]</small></small>]] 11:25, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
* The redirect with possibilities should probably be deleted for the time being. --[[User:Joy|Joy <small><small>[shallot]</small></small>]] 11:25, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
==Unfinished business==
===To orphan===
''Stub types in this section have been deemed deletable and have to be removed from all articles using them, so that they can be deleted.''
===To delete===
''Stub types in this section have been orphaned and can be deleted.''
===Listings to log===
''Stub types with completed discussions which have not yet been logged; remove from '''this''' page entirely when logged. Anyone can do this, not just an admin; please see the directions at [[{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}/Log]].''
[[Category:Wikipedia deletion|Stub types for deletion]]
[[Category:WikiProject Stub sorting|Stub types for deletion]]
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