Talk:COBOL and Kaiser Chiefs: Difference between pages

Revision as of 20:05, 21 July 2005

Revision as of 11:45, 13 November 2005

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{{about|the band|the football club|[[Kaizer Chiefs Football Club]]}}

==Too little about COBOL yet==

I hoped I could find some solid information on the language COBOL here.

Contributors have as yet mainly concentrated on criticizing and defending COBOL, instead of first factually describing the language and its properties in detail.

I find the result rather boring. Sadly, this is rather typical for many discussions on actually interesting computer subjects.

--[[User:Liberatus|Liberatus]] 00:20, 7 Mar 2005 (UTC)

{{Infobox_band |

band_name = KAISER CHIEFS |

image = [[Image:Chiefs12.jpeg|200px]] |

years_active = [[2003]]–present |

origin = [[Leeds]], [[England]] |

music_genre = [[Post punk]] |

record_label = [[Polydor]]<br>[[B-Unique Records|B-Unique]] |

current_members = [[Ricky Wilson]]<br />[[Andrew White]]<br />[[Simon Rix]]<br />[[Nick Baines]]<br />[[Nick Hodgson]] |

}}

'''Kaiser Chiefs''' are a [[United Kingdom|British]] [[post punk]]/[[art rock]] band from [[Leeds]], formed early in [[2003]]. The band's explosion onto the global music scene in early [[2005]] was epitomised when they opened the [[Philadelphia]] [[Live 8]] concert.

==Current total for lines of COBOL programs==

The article (based on 1981 data?) claims that little new code is being written in Cobol. A more current estimate is at 5 billion codelines a year, so perhaps it depends on the definition of "little"... (See for instance http://www.cobolwebler.com/cobolfacts.htm, citing Gartner Group as a source.)

--

==Line-Up==

==Question about COBOL number formats==

The band consists of:-

*'''[[Ricky Wilson (Kaiser Chiefs)|Ricky Wilson]]''' - [[vocals]]

*'''[[Andrew White]]''' - [[electric guitar|guitar]]

*'''[[Simon Rix]]''' - [[bass guitar|bass]]

*'''[[Nick Baines|Nick 'Peanut' Baines]]''' - [[electronic keyboard|keyboards]], [[synthesizer|synthesizers]]

*'''[[Nick Hodgson]]''' - [[drums]]

{{TOCleft}}

how the heck do i decode these crazy cobol number formats?

i got some data here its all '00040]' and i am thinking that means

-40? or what?

==History==

>> Cobol numbers may be signed ("PIC S9999" for example). The least significant digit is "overpunched" with the sign of the number, saving a character.

Prior to 2003 the members of the band had been a [[garage rock]] band called '''Parva''' (before that having been known as '''Runston Parva'''). However, after being dropped by their label, the band made a conscious decision to adopt a more typical [[britpop]] sound, helping the band reach their current popularity within the UK and beyond as a consequence.

<br>

+0 {<br>

+1 A<br>

+2 B<br>

+3 C<br>

...<br>

+9 I<br>

<br>

-0 } (may be used as NULL)<br>

-1 J<br>

-2 K<br>

-3 L<br>

...<br>

-9 R<br>

<br>

In your example, '00040}' probably indicates -400, or more likely, -4.00 (you'd have to look at the format of the number or the program logic to determine where the implied decimal is).

On [[18 February]], [[2005]] they were the opening act at the [[NME]] Awards show and won the Philip Hall Radar Award.

==Claim: COBOL has no support for structured programming==

The band re-released the single 'Oh My God' on [[21st February]], which charted at #6. The debut album ''[[Employment (album)|Employment]]'' was released on [[7th March]] [[2005]] and entered the charts at #3 that week. Despite becoming favourite after being shortlisted, the album failed to win the [[2005]] [[Mercury Music Prize]].

As far as I understand it, Cobol does support structured programming, at least within a single program subroutines are common in all the code I've seen (and we rarely use GOTO!).

A DVD release, entitled ''Enjoyment'', is due for release late November and will features all the promo videos, live performances and more.

I'd also like to see a list of what Cobol does that other languages don't (or don't do as well), for example variable redefinition or subdefinition.

An internet-only (so far) music video for their song "Sink that ship" has been released in September 2005. The video appears on Electronic Arts website as a promotional tool for their game Burnout Revenge but is completely unbranded.

Cobol variable definition is closely tied to the actual memory space used by the variables (and is probably due to its heritage with punchcards).

==Performances==

Cobol allows the programmer to subdefine variables; this is like a C typedef.

Kaiser Chiefs were the opening act at the [[Philadelphia]] [[Live 8]] concert on [[2 July]] [[2005]], one of only two British acts in the lineup ([[Def Leppard]] being the other). They performed [[I Predict a Riot]], [[Everyday I Love You Less and Less]] and [[Oh My God]]. [[June]] 2005 saw them headline at the [[May Ball]] at [[Queens' College, Cambridge]], before [[August]]'s appearance at the [[V Festival]] where they performed a very enthusiastic set despite Ricky Wilson having his leg in plaster. Also more recently they embarked on the UK [[NME]] Rock n Roll Riot Tour, supported by [[Maximo Park]] and [[The Cribs]]. The group also received a lot of attention by playing a few shows on the [[Foozer]] tour.

==Influences==

(From memory)

Influences include:

10 employee-name pic x(30)

*[[The Pooh Sticks]]

15 empl-fn pic x(15)

*[[New Order]]

15 empl-mi pic x(01)

*[[The Membranes]],

15 empl-ln pic x(14)

*[[I Ludicrous]],

*[[Cud]],

*[[The_Railway_Children_(band)|The Railway Children]],

*[[The Pastels]],

*[[The Family Cat]],

*[[Lush]],

*[[Bridewell Taxis]],

*[[King of the Slums]],

*[[McCarthy_(band)|McCarthy]],

*[[Blur]],

*[[Pulp]],

*[[Pale Saints]],

*[[Half Man Half Biscuit]],

*[[Small Faces]],

*[[Brilliant_Corners%2C_The|The Brilliant Corners]], and

*[[Madness]].

Several members of the band are ardent fans of the English [[football (soccer)|football]] team [[Leeds United F.C.|Leeds United]]. They are named after the [[South Africa|South African]] [[Kaizer Chiefs Football Club]], the former team of long-serving former Leeds captain [[Lucas Radebe]].

Later in code, "move spaces to employee-name" clears all fields and subfields.

==Discography==

You may also redefine variables, giving a single variable more than one name.

===Albums===

*''[[Employment (album)|Employment]]'' (2005) #3 UK, #86 US

Worldwide Sales: Employment: estimated 2.5 million

===Singles===

10 business-name redefines employee-name

'''From ''Employment'':'''

*"[[Oh My God]]" (2004), #66 UK

*"[[I Predict a Riot]]" (2004), #22 UK

*"[[Oh My God]]" (re-release) (2005), #6 UK

*"[[Everyday I Love You Less and Less]]" (2005), #10 UK

*[[The Cribs |The Cribs]]/Kaiser Chiefs split "7 (features "Modern Way") (2005)

*"[[I Predict a Riot]]" (re-release)/"Sink That Ship" (2005), #9 UK

*"[[Modern Way]]" (2005)

[[Image:Kaiser_Chiefs_Employment.jpg|thumb|[[Employment (album)|Employment]] cover]]

(another example)

10 STD-DATE PIC X(08) /* YYYYMMDD, char format*/

15 STD-DATE-CC PIC X(02)

15 STD-DATE-YYMMDD PIC X(06) /* YYMMDD, char format */

20 STD-DATE-YY PIC X(02)

20 STD-DATE-MMDD PIC X(04)

==External links==

88-level values may be used to list options for flags or allowable values for variables.

*[http://www.kaiserchiefs.co.uk Official website]

*[http://www.bandnews.org/band/K/Kaiser+Chiefs/ Kaiser Chiefs News]

*[http://www.kaiserchiefs.org Kaiser Chiefs Fan Community]

*[http://www.andrewkendall.com/pages/gallery/musicphotography.php?band=kaiserchiefs&viewby=all&Submit=Go andrewkendall.com - Kaiser Chiefs photographs]

*[http://www.hotlyricz.com/K/kaiserchiefs/kaiserchiefsindex.html Kaiser Chiefs Lyrics]

*[http://www.disrecords.com DiS Records: released debut single 'Oh My God']

*[http://www.kaiserchiefs.nl Dutch fansite]

*[http://www.kaiser-chiefs.net Team Mate Fansite]

*[http://www.burnoutrevenge.ea.com/video_popup/video_popup.asp Sink That Ship Music Video]

[[Category:British musical groups]]

[[de:Kaiser Chiefs]]

10 employee-found-sw pic x(01)

[[ms:Kaiser Chiefs]]

88 employee-found value "Y"

88 employee-not-found value "N"

10 employee-type-flag pic x(01)

88 employee-type-standard value "S"

88 employee-type-exempt value "E"

88 employee-type-contractor value "C"

(later, in code:)

move employee-type-standard to employee-type-flag

if employee-type-standard ...

Dare I mention more english-like syntax (though it may perhaps be more readable to PHBs, most programmers don't seem to like it).

move 7 to days-of-the-week

if days-of-the-week=7 then next sentence.

(darn, I don't have my code here so I can't give more examples) -- [[User:Justfred|Justfred]]

Can someone add program sample like "hello world" ?

IDENTIFICATION DIVISION.

PROGRAM-ID. HELLO-WORLD

ENVIRONMENT DIVISION.

DATA DIVISION.

PROCEDURE DIVISION.

DISPLAY "HELLO WORLD".

EXIT PROGRAM.

==Wikipedia naming conventions for languages==

* mention of [[Wikipedia:Naming conventions (languages)]]

==Strange use of second generation language==

Where does come your use of second generation language: it is usually reserved for assembly languages. -- [[User:Hgfernan|Hgfernan]] 12 May 2004

I agree. COBOL is a third generation language.

other examples of third generation languages

would be FORTRAN and BASIC. If someone else doesn't

correct it soon I may do so. It is a clear mistake.

enhandle nov 2004

==Bogus lines deleted==

I have been a Cobol programmer for many years in many different environments and i have NEVER seen a line like the following:

DISPLAY " " LINE 1 POSITION 1 ERASE EOS.

DISPLAY "Hello, world." LINE 15 POSITION 10.

If i want to display "hello word" i just write: display 'hello world'. why do people who obviously have never programmed in Cobol insist on explaining this language to others?

==COBOL makes me think of Erwin==

[[User Friendly]]

I want an Erwin programming language... --[[User:Ihope127|Ihope127]] 20:05, 21 July 2005 (UTC)