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==Archive==
{{shortcut|[[WP:RD/M]] or [[WP:RD/MISC]]}}
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*[[/Archive 1]]
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== indentBad infaith the capslock keyedits ==
When a User reverts all my edits with no explanation but a childishly untrue claim in the edit summary that my own edit summary was inaccurate, I don't feel the need to explain my consequent revert, and I shan't in future. If anyone wants to explain what they think is wrong with my attempts to improve the article, then I'll be happy to discuss the issue. --[[User:Mel Etitis|Mel Etitis]] ([[User talk:Mel Etitis|<font color="green">Μελ Ετητης</font>)]] 21:18, 27 October 2005 (UTC)
Why is there a indent in the capslock key?
Your well aware of my objections to your watchdogging this page, we've already discussed this [[User_talk:Sam_Spade#Adi_Shankara|here]]. its seems I'm not alone in my concerns... funny, that... [[User:Sam Spade|Sam Spade]] 03:21, 29 October 2005 (UTC)
I not know, but speculate it may be related to assisting people who are blind and totally touch type. [[User:AlMac|AlMac]]|[[User talk:AlMac|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] 04:15, 20 August 2005 (UTC)
:You mean that you reverted my edits because you object to my having this page on my Watchlist and trying to improve it and protect it from poor edits? Well at least you're honest about your bad-faith editing, but that doesn't really make it any better. --[[User:Mel Etitis|Mel Etitis]] ([[User talk:Mel Etitis|<font color="green">Μελ Ετητης</font>)]] 22:17, 29 October 2005 (UTC)
:Or who can see, but take seriously the fact that you are not supposed to look at the keyboard when you [[touch typing|touchtype]]... 05:50, 20 August 2005 (UTC)
I object to your reverts, and the reasoning for them, yes. [[User:Sam Spade|Sam Spade]] 00:05, 30 October 2005 (UTC)
::This was my first thought too, but touch-typing assistance is usually limited to bumps on the 'f' and 'j' (or 'd' and 'k') keys. I think the indentation on my caps lock key is to keep it separated from the 'a' key so that it's not so easy to hit the caps lock accidentally. I'm not sure if this is what the original poster was referring to, though, since keyboards vary in details like this. --[[User:Zeborah|Zeborah]] 11:32, 20 August 2005 (UTC)
== RfC ==
:::I don't have any indent on my capslock. PS those "bumps" are called the 'home keys' (F,J and NUM5). {{User:Nichalp/sg}} 19:05, August 20, 2005 (UTC)
As [[User:Sam Spade|SS]] insists on reverting my edits but refuses to explain (the nearest he gets is calling them "bizarre" in his edit summary) I've asked for comments. Fresh eyes on the article would be appreciated. --[[User:Mel Etitis|Mel Etitis]] ([[User talk:Mel Etitis|<font color="green">Μελ Ετητης</font>)]] 22:30, 29 October 2005 (UTC)
::::I've always used 'home keys' refer to all the keys your fingers rest on when typing 'properly', ie asdfjkl; - the [http://webinstituteforteachers.org/~gammakeys/Lesson/Lesson1.htm first site I googled] uses this definition. --[[User:Zeborah|Zeborah]] 00:37, 21 August 2005 (UTC)
:I think we're getting a little too quick on the revert trigger on the part of both parties here. Maybe both Mel and Sam could agree to try observing a variation on the [[Wikipedia:One-revert rule|one-revert rule]] for a little while; let the article sit as it is right now, and commit only non-revert edits for a while. If one of you makes an edit that the other disagrees with that you would ordinarily revert, discuss it on the talk page. Most of the edits at issue in the series of reverts I look at and think "some of these are good changes, some are debatable, and some should probably be undone". Reverts of an entire submission is too coarse a tool for dealing with these situations, particular the debatable changes. The real problem here is that edits by third parties are at risk of being inadvertantly wiped out during reverts and counterreverts (this seems to have happened in the latest edit by [[User:Imc]]). Sound sensible? --[[User:Spasemunki|Clay Collier]] 05:22, 30 October 2005 (UTC)
Absolutely, that is my thought entirely. This all started because I saw [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Adi_Shankara&diff=26218323&oldid=26103100 this revert by Mel]. As you can see from [[User_talk:Sam_Spade#Adi_Shankara]], that has been my concern all along. Also, if you notice, I have been observing the 1 rr, making no more than 1 revert every 24hrs, and I have done my best to merge in any actual improvements. [[User:Sam Spade|Sam Spade]] 14:34, 30 October 2005 (UTC)
:::::asdf-jkl; is "home row," and f and j (or d and k on old-school Mac keyboards… took me forever to get used to it when they switched) are the "braille keys." At least, that's how I learned it. As for the indent in the caps-lock key, perhaps the OP is referring to how some keyboards have caps-lock keys that are "flat" for about half a centimeter on the right side, before the key rises up to normal height. I also believe it's to reduce headaches from accidentally pressing it. [[User:Garrett Albright|Garrett Albright]] 02:19, 21 August 2005 (UTC)
:Could you both please summarise the stylistic or other differences between you two here? It looks like an extremely trivial dispute. --[[User:Ravikiran r|Ravikiran]] 17:16, 30 October 2005 (UTC)
If I remember correctly, many typewriters had a CAPS LOCK key and a separate key to release CAPS LOCK. Can't remember the shapes exactly - maybe one was shaped like a backwards "L" and the other was much smaller and sort of fit in the 'pocket' of the L. [[User:Ike9898|ike9898]] 00:24, August 26, 2005 (UTC)
It is. Basically I object to Mel having reverted a generally good edit, I reverted his revert, he reverted me back, and here we are. [[User:Sam Spade|Sam Spade]] 22:11, 30 October 2005 (UTC)
== Da Vinci Code Filimg at Rosslyn Chapel, Scotland ==
:I made a series of edits that I thought improved the article. SS reverted them, calling them bizarre. Since then he's refused to explain what it is about them that is bizarre, or to which he objects. I am still completely in the dark as to his reasons for revrting. Some of my edits reverted earlier edits by an anon, which I take to have replaced good style with slightly worse style. For example:
We will be in Edinburgh in September. We understand that Ron Howard will be filming at the Chapel in September. Do you happen to know the dates of the filming in Scotland?
::"From a young age, Shankara was attracted to asceticism and to the life of a renunciate. His mother Aryamba was however entirely against his becoming a ''Sannyasi'', and consistently refused him her formal permission, which was required before he could take ''Sannyasam''. Once when Shankara was bathing in the river, a crocodile gripped him by the leg and began rapidly to drag him into the water."
:was changed to:
::"From a young age, Shankara was attracted to [[asceticism]] and to the life of a renunciate. However, his mother, Aryamba, was entirely against his becoming a ''Sannyasi'', and consistently refused him her formal permission, which was required before he could take ''Sannyasam''. Once when Shankara was bathing in the river, a [[crocodile]] gripped him by the leg and began to rapidly drag him into the water."
:Why SS thinks that the former is so much better as to warrant regular reverting I don't know. I don't hold that so-called split infinitives are grammatically wrong and must be avoided, but I can see no reason to insist on including one when the original text avoided it.
:The changes which I reverted also included unnecessary division of the article into smaller sections, a lot of duplicated internal links, some PoV language (e.g., I replaced "his greatest lesson" with "his main lesson"), and the addition of a section which mentions what one writer (out of very many) has said about Shankara's dates — an addition which I think is somewhat PoV, as it raises one opinion above others. I also removed a duplication in the bibliography ("The commentary on the [[Bhagavad Gita]]" appears both as book that he certainly wrote and as one that he probably wrote, but on which there's no scholarly agreement, and I organised the external links section so that links to the same sites were grouped together.
:Why is SS reverting all these and a host of other edits? I don't know; he refuses to say. The nearest he's come is to say that he opposes my watching over this article — something that Wikipedia editors do all the time (including, of course, SS himself). --[[User:Mel Etitis|Mel Etitis]] ([[User talk:Mel Etitis|<font color="green">Μελ Ετητης</font>)]] 23:48, 30 October 2005 (UTC)
I would describe that as a complete mischaracterisation, and advise any interested parties to review my statements, the links I provide, and the articles edit history. [[User:Sam Spade|Sam Spade]] 01:52, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
Thank you,
:There will be a user conduct RfC is false edit summaries like [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Adi_Shankara&diff=27475128&oldid=27360203 this] continue to be used. [[User:Sam Spade|Sam Spade]] 16:25, 6 November 2005 (UTC)
Abernathy's
Texas--[[User:12.147.148.195|12.147.148.195]] 05:21, 20 August 2005 (UTC)
*I don't, but I would expect the local tourist organization knows more. - [[User:MacGyverMagic|Mgm]]|[[User talk:MacGyverMagic|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] 06:33, August 20, 2005 (UTC)
==Attempt to resolve dispute==
== Photos and copyright ==
:I wonder if the two of you couldn't try to go through the items in dispute one by one and find agreement on at least some of them? For example, the first item is "Hindu [[scripture]]s" v. "[[Hindu]] [[scripture]]s"[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Adi_Shankara&diff=27545022&oldid=27543146]. Now, I don't have a strong opinion about this, but it seems to me that since [[Hinduism]] is hyperlinked a few lines above, and that links in turn to [[Hindu]], that might suffice. But then, that is just my opinion.
:The next item is [[Namboothiri]] v. [[Namboodiri]]. The latter redirects to the former. So, I don't understand why this is in dispute. It should be [[Namboothiri]]. The discussion of the spelling of this name should be moved to the [[Namboothiri]] talk page so that the editors of that article can participate.
I was wondering, if you were to take a photo of a copyrighted photo, who would then own the rights to the photo you have take? And does it depend on things like how much of that original photo is visible in your one? Thank you, [[User:Akamad|Akamad]] 08:45, August 20, 2005 (UTC)
:The third item is ''is'' v. ''are''. Since the subject of the sentence, "traditional source", is singular, "is" is the correct word.
:Well, if it's a clear and non-creative representation of the original copyrighted photo, then ''your'' photo would be a breach of copyright... [[User:Notinasnaid|Notinasnaid]] 13:24, 20 August 2005 (UTC)
::If a substantial portion of the old picture is used, even creatively, and clearly or unclearly, it is a copyright infringement. The best you can hope for is [[fair use]] in the US. [[User:Superm401|Superm401]] | [[User_talk:Superm401|Talk]] 21:15, August 20, 2005 (UTC)
:Now, I notice that I've sided with Mel on the first two items, and Sam on the third, but I would caution both of you against drawing any conclusions from this. That is just how it happened to come out. The important thing is that if you can come to an agreement on any or all of these items, maybe some of the other items can be resolved as well. Even if you can't resolve all the items, finding agreement on some would be a big help if you do have seek arbitration to resolve the balance. Thank you both for trying to improve Wikipedea and best wishes. -[[User:Wsiegmund|Walter Siegmund]] [[User_talk:Wsiegmund|(talk)]] 23:06, 6 November 2005 (UTC)
:Your photograph is a derivative work of the original. You hold the copyright to whatever original input you have in your new photograph, but still need permission from the original copyright holder to do stuff with it. -- [[User:Cyrius|Cyrius]]|[[User talk:Cyrius|✎]] 20:37, 21 August 2005 (UTC)
Thank you for your helpful comments. So that you know, [[Hinduism]] does not link to [[Hindu]]. [[Namboothiri]] I have no problem with, but he reverted a large number of wikilinks as well. My primary problem is his usage of a revert in these cases, which was clearly inappropriate and problematic. [[User:Sam Spade|Sam Spade]] 23:55, 6 November 2005 (UTC)
===Derivative Software Copyrights===
:There is a concept in programming, of [[derivative software]] in which we write a program, but copy chunks of code to do various standard things, from other programs, which may be copyrighted. Suppose I write a 100,000 line program, and use only 10 lines of code that are copyrighted ... the copyright on the microscopic addition applies to the whole result, because I used ANY copyrighted material in crafting my new program (actuallty my employer's because the program is the property of who is paying for the work to be done, unless there is a contract to the contrary).
::Suppose in crafting the new program, I use chunks of code from several prior programs that have DIFFERENT copyrights ... ALL of them now belong in the copyright statements of the new program.
::The reason it is important to keep track of this ... my employer has a contract with some supplier of software that gives us permission to use their source code in the development of our internal other programs, but let's suppose future management decides to end that contract, quit paying annual fees to maintain it ... that means that we have lost permission to use that source code ... we have to find all programs we used that code in, and stop using those programs, because they contain source code, whose right to use it in a derivative matter, has now expired.
:Different rules apply to different kinds of copyrightable material, so this derivative rule for software might not apply to photographs, music, other intellectual property.
[[User:AlMac|AlMac]]|[[User talk:AlMac|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] 23:18, 20 August 2005 (UTC)
:Sam, I appreciate very much your agreement with my opinion on the [[Namboothiri]] matter. I will proceed to make the change. I'd like to ask that Mel not revert the article to his version as long as progress in resolving the disputed items is occurring. I know that will be disagreeable to him because it is mostly Sam's version at this point, but I would be grateful for Mel's help in this regard. Now, the matter of whether [[Hinduism]] links to [[Hindu]] can be resolved, I think. The link that I found is just above the table of '''Contents''' of [[Hinduism]]: "See [[Hindu]] for more about a Hindu and different communities of Hindus." Now, I think that is bad style because it is easy to overlook. I had to search for it. I think it would be better if a place for [[Hindu]] could be found in the first two or three sentences. The wording of the sentence containing the link is bad too, because it is reminiscent of the '''See also''' section at the ends of article and breaks up the flow of the writing. But, perhaps we can agree to work with the other editors of [[Hinduism]] to improve the wording and to give [[Hindu]] more prominence. Thank you. [[User:Wsiegmund|Walter Siegmund]] [[User_talk:Wsiegmund|(talk)]] 02:27, 7 November 2005 (UTC)
:If you look at the copyright notices for large programs that have evolved over time, like various Unix flavours, you will usually see that there is a whole list of "Portions copyright...." which is how they acknowledge the bits they have used. If you wanted to use a chunk that was really only ten lines or so you would be better to rewrite it. IANAL, but if you rewrite code yourself, even if it does exactly the same as the original, you are not violating copyright. [[User:DJ Clayworth|DJ Clayworth]] 23:43, 20 August 2005 (UTC)
Oh, I'm sorry, i misunderstood you at first. I thought ''you'' thought [[Hindu]] redirected to [[hinduism]] (which it once did, but no longer does). Now I see you were refering to the fact that the article [[Hinduism]] contains within it a link to [[Hindu]]. That is indeed the case, but I feel this article ([[Adi Shankara]]) ought to link to [[hindu]] as well, and indeed generally should link to a wide variety of relevant articles. I sincerely appreciate your mediations here, Walter Siegmund. [[User:Sam Spade|Sam Spade]] 03:34, 7 November 2005 (UTC)
== Upper Nile University Sudan ==
:Sam, I'm sorry that I wasn't clear in my previous comment. For the record, it seems to me that a reader of this article is probably already fairly knowledgeable about Hinduism and Hindus since a beginner would be unlikely to start here. On the other hand, at least one link is appropriate, just to be safe. It seems to me that Hinduism is the more relevant of the two. From Hinduism, the reader can reach Hindu, albeit with the misgivings I expressed previously. I am sure that you know of the discussions occur among editors on the extent of links. Many share your view that the links should be more extensive than less. I would summarize as follows: More links are better because who can know what link might be helpful to a future reader v. too many links make it hard for the reader to find the one that is useful or necessary, and detract from the appearance of the article. I think we should give Mel an opportunity to comment. I'm pleased that you think I've been helpful, Sam. Thank you. -[[User:Wsiegmund|Walter Siegmund]] [[User_talk:Wsiegmund|(talk)]] 04:24, 7 November 2005 (UTC)
What is the actual contact address of the "Upper Nile University" in Sudan? Will that be in Karthoum or Malakal?
==Use of links==
: According to [http://www.aau.org/english/member.htm?AddressID=123 this website] among others it is PO Box 1660 in Khartoum, and the phone number +249 (11) 222 174. A [http://groups.yahoo.com/group/inter-l/message/10130 Yahoo Groups message] suggests that the university moved to Khartoum during the civil war, and that in 2004 plans were announced for it to move back to Malakal, but I'd imagine this move back would take some time and so the university is probably still at this address. --[[User:Zeborah|Zeborah]] 11:20, 20 August 2005 (UTC)
:First, for the record, I made the change of Namboodiri to Namboothiri before my edit above at 04:24, 7 November 2005 (UTC). Second, I want to thank Mel for not reverting the current content.
:Since the subject of links has been broached, I wonder if it wouldn't be good to try to resolve that category next, rather than item by item. A cross-wiki link to Wiktionary may be better for some of the links, but for now, I'd like to focus on only the issue of whether the word should be linked or not. Here are my thoughts.
:[[Wikipedia:Make_only_links_relevant_to_the_context#What_should_not_be_linked|What should ''not'' be linked]]
:'''Plain English words:'''
*[[crocodile]]
*[[universe]]
*[[mortality]]
*[[theistic]]
:The time, space, causation, change and eternity articles do include sections on philosophy, but it is embarrassing that the only comment on Asian thought on these matters I found was one sentence in [[Causality]]. Consequently, a reader of this article would find little of help in those. Moreover, this article does not discuss the philosophy of time, space, causation, change or eternity in any significant detail. But, I would support linking to those articles once they include significant Asian philosophical content. But, even then, the link should be to the philosophy section, not to the top of the article. I didn't find anything on philosophy or religion in [[universe]] or [[mortality]].
*[[time]]
*[[space]]
*[[causation]]
*[[change]]
*[[eternity]]
:[[Wikipedia:Make_only_links_relevant_to_the_context#What_should_be_linked|What should be linked]]
== Jeff Foxworthy ==
:'''Major connections with the subject of another article that will help readers to understand the current article more fully:'''
*[[Vishwanath]]
*[[Kashi]]
*[[Shiva]]
*[[Ishwara]]
*[[Manisha Panchakam]] But only if the article is written promptly.
*[[Nrsimha]]
*[[Kali]]
*[[Laksmi]]
*[[Buddhism]]
*[[South India]] Kashmir is linked, so South India or India should be linked as well (but only the first occurrence). The second is a redlink.
:'''Technical terms should be linked unless they are fully defined in the article:'''
I am looking for an email address for Jeff Foxworthy. I have "redneck wedding" pictures that someone sent me I thought he may like. Thanks.
*[[shlokas]]
*[[atman]] But only the first occurrence and it should be spelled consistently in this article (and hopefully with the referenced article as well).
*[[sacerdotalism]]
:'''Discussed earlier, see entry at 04:24, 7 November 2005 (UTC) above.'''
:You could try [http://www.addresses.com/people-search-results.php addresses.com] or [http://people.yahoo.com/ Yahoo people search] -- each have several different possibilities though it's possible that none of these will be the one you're looking for. Good luck! --[[User:Zeborah|Zeborah]] 11:44, 20 August 2005 (UTC)
*[[Hindu]]
::You could also try writing to his management. They may forward them on to him. [[User:Dismas|Dismas]] 13:32, 20 August 2005 (UTC)
:::In response to the comment you left on my talk page (in case you don't go back there but do come here)... Well, I'd try going to his web site first of all. Then scroll all the way down and follow the link for the web designer. Ask them if they have some contact info for J.F.'s management and go from there. [[User:Dismas|Dismas]] 13:32, 23 August 2005 (UTC)
:Thank you. [[User:Wsiegmund|Walter Siegmund]] [[User_talk:Wsiegmund|(talk)]] 18:28, 7 November 2005 (UTC)
== Contact for Christian Clavier ==
We don't agree philosophically regarding wikilinks, I feel more is better, and that any concivably useful link should occur at least once per section. However, you have been communicative and reasonable regarding your preference, so I am willing to accept your preference for this page, as long as Mel does not resume reversions of edits which improve the article. [[User:Sam Spade|Sam Spade]] 23:17, 7 November 2005 (UTC)
dear wikipedia,
:Sam, thank you for your spirit of cooperation and your interest in resolving disagreements through discussion. I think I summarized your position on links (and that of those who disagree with you) in my comment of 04:24, 7 November 2005 (UTC), but correct me if I'm wrong. We are fortunate, however, that the [[Wikipedia:Make only links relevant to the context|Style Guide section on links]] can help us resolve our differences. That is why I linked to sections of the Style Guide in my list of the links in dispute above. I thought that you and Mel might be able to discuss whether the link in question was in the correct sublist, rather than rehashing philosophical positions on links. The latter is not relevant to this discussion, in my view, and is unlikely to lead to agreement, in any case.
i'm a great fan of [[Christian Clavier]]. i've been looking for a long time just for a fanmailing of him. do you, wikipedia maby know how i can contact him? at least send him a email. i'm not a person who wants to know what's his phone number or such other stuff, but just a fanmailing. i would like to ask him something very important for me. please, could you help me? i hope for a request. many greetings Sanela
:Subsequent to your acceptance of the link changes that I suggested, I was disappointed to see that Mel reverted the article that you and I were working on to his version and requested that it be blocked. Further effort on my part, in the absence of participation by Mel, seems fruitless to me. Best wishes to you both. -[[User:Wsiegmund|Walter Siegmund]] [[User_talk:Wsiegmund|(talk)]] 18:26, 8 November 2005 (UTC)
email: meluvchris@hotmail.com
:There's no guarantee they'll pass it on to him, but you can mail his production company, Ouille Productions, at ouille2@wanadoo.fr [[User:Superm401|Superm401]] | [[User_talk:Superm401|Talk]] 21:11, August 20, 2005 (UTC)
Your attempt to mediate has been noted and appreciated. Thank you very much. [[User:Sam Spade|Sam Spade]] 00:36, 9 November 2005 (UTC)
== famous pubs ==
==Article protected==
I previously asked this question. What is the most famous [[pub]]? There's so many in the world, surely theres some world-famous ones --[[User:Wonderfool|Wonderfool]] [[User talk:Wonderfool|t]][[Special:Contributions/Wonderfool|(c)]] 23:55, 20 August 2005 (UTC)
The article has been protected per the request at [[WP:RFP]]. And please don't accuse me of taking sides, Mel did not contact me and I'd have protected the [[meta:The_Wrong_Version|wrong version]] either way. Once you've resolved your differences of opinion, it can be unprotected. [[User:FeloniousMonk|FeloniousMonk]] 01:09, 8 November 2005 (UTC)
:LOL! What a joke, as soon as reasonable people start agreeing on what edits to make, a good friend of Mel (who has refused to participate in discussion) locks the page... shortly after Mel reverts! What a coincidence! [[User:Sam Spade|Sam Spade]] 20:01, 8 November 2005 (UTC)
:Why, the "Fool & Firkin at 2 Gasking Street in Plymouth of course. ;-) [[User:Hydnjo|hydnjo]] [[User talk:Hydnjo|talk]] 00:17, 21 August 2005 (UTC)
== My position ==
:The [[Cheers]] pub in Boston could be considered one of the more famous pubs. [[User:Rentastrawberry|Rentastrawberry]] 01:32, August 21, 2005 (UTC)
I had explained to SS why I'd made the edits that I had, and he refused to discuss the issue, merely making general comments about me and the edits (mainly in edit summaries). I eventually (two days ago) asked for the page to be protected. I'm currently struggling with a particularly heavy teaching load, so I'm a couple of days behind checking on my Watchlist (I'm now at 02:06 on 8 x 05, if anyone's interested), and I missed the current discussion. I'm pleased that the intervention of a third party, Walter Siegmund, has finally brought SS to the discussion, but I'd asked for page protection before most of that discussion had taken place.
::Cheers. Famous TV tourist trap - yes. Famous for other than popular entertainment: ''guess where I am'' - no. [[User:Hydnjo|hydnjo]] [[User talk:Hydnjo|talk]] 02:03, 21 August 2005 (UTC)
I agree with almost everything that Walter Siegmund said, and even where I don't I appreciate his calm and serious approach. I hope that he'll return to the Talk page. --[[User:Mel Etitis|Mel Etitis]] ([[User talk:Mel Etitis|<font color="green">Μελ Ετητης</font>)]] 22:40, 9 November 2005 (UTC)
:The oldest pubs tend to be famous if they brag about it. For example, the oldest pubs in england are either [[The Bell Inn (Nottingham)]], or [[The Old Trip To Jerusalem (Nottingham)]] depending on your definition of pub.
== Proposal to resolve this dispute ==
:Similarly, anything used as a ___location in a work of literature, film, etc. will be famous. I don't know if you're counting fictional pubs such as the [[Prancing Pony]]*.
Sam Spade and Mel Etitis, thank you both for your kind words about my efforts. I've been thinking about how best to proceed given that Mel Etitis has little time to devote to this discussion at present and that it is in all of our interests to unblock the article promptly so that we and others can resume our efforts to improve it. Since you both have expressed confidence in my efforts and little inclination to examine my comments one by one, I wonder if a solution along the follow lines might be acceptable?
''(* didn't I once see a [[List of fictional drinking establishments]] page which should be in [[:Category:Lists of fictional things]]?)''
*I will undertake to edit the disputed items consistent with my suggestions above. These have been accepted by Sam Spade and mostly agreed to by Mel Etitis.
*I will edit the items not yet discussed in a manner that seems best to me. I will give prompt consideration and response to queries posted here regarding all edits.
*Both parties will agree to not make any further change(s) to the disputed items without proposing the change(s) here for comment one week prior to making the change(s). Each agrees to make the change(s) only if a clear consensus, or no dissent, occurs.
*In the future, both parties agree to avoid criticizing one another or their actions in general terms. A well-reasoned comment on a specific edit is appropriate, however, and will be accepted as such by the recipient.
*Both parties agree not to revert the other in the future on this or any other article. But, if you edit anonymously, please don't complain if you are reverted by the other.
*Neither party is restrained by this agreement from reverting edits by third parties to this or other articles, as he sees fit, and in accordance with the policies of Wikipedia.
*Both parties agree that this is the full and final settlement of this dispute and agree not to rehash it henceforth.
*Once both parties have accepted these terms (or as modified by subsequent discussion), Mel Etitis will request the block on the article be removed so that the other items can be accomplished.
*For the record, this is the [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Adi_Shankara&diff=27545022&oldid=27543146| difference page] for the disputed items.
Thank you for your consideration of my proposal. -[[User:Wsiegmund|Walter Siegmund]] [[User_talk:Wsiegmund|(talk)]] 19:47, 10 November 2005 (UTC)
**''[[The World's End]]'' in Edinburgh was briefly notorious after a spate of murders (the "World's End Murders" in 1977, recently solved), though I believe that was only nationally - I note the article is on the London pub of that name. We have a [[:Category:British public houses]], but most of the ones I can name aren't in there. [[User:Shimgray|Shimgray]] 13:40, 21 August 2005 (UTC)
:I agree to that, unless the agreement not to revert applies to pages other than this one, and w the stipulation that Mel (and I) not revert non-vandalism edits to this page w/o prior consensus. [[User:Sam Spade|Sam Spade]] 21:34, 10 November 2005 (UTC)
It's hard enough to pick the most famous in any given city... -- [[User:Jmabel|Jmabel]] | [[User talk:Jmabel|Talk]] 22:22, August 21, 2005 (UTC)
Sam Spade, I'm sorry. I can't agree to your stipulation to allow reversions of each other's work under any circumstance and I've modified the language above to make this clear. I fear that to do otherwise opens the door to a transfer of this dispute to another article or a resumption of the dispute on this article. I think that the history of this dispute demonstrates that reversion is not going to resolve a dispute between you and Mel Etitis. You are not giving up a useful tool by agreeing to this provision. You are gaining an end to the vexation that his reversions have caused you. I would be very grateful if you would be kind enough to reconsider your objection to this provision. Thank you. [[User:Wsiegmund|Walter Siegmund]] [[User_talk:Wsiegmund|(talk)]] 22:58, 10 November 2005 (UTC)
*Very ___location-specific. The ''Wunderbar'', the ''Greyhound'', the ''Crossways'', the ''White Hart'', the ''Jack-O'', etc. All pubs local to me; all "known" within the community for something. Perhaps one of the most famous (albeit fictional) pubs in the UK would be the Queen Vic from [[Eastenders]]; the Rover's Return from [[Coronation Street]], etc. [[User:Robchurch|Rob Church]] <sup>''[[User_talk:Robchurch|Talk]]'' | ''[[User:Robchurch/Desk|Desk]]''</sup> 01:25, 25 August 2005 (UTC)
:There's nothing in [[User:Wsiegmund|Walter Siegmund]]'s proposal to which I could reasonably object, and I agree to all parts, and thank him for the time and thought that he's put in to this. I'd rather not tie my hands with regard to edits by anyone else, though. (For example, the insistence of certain religious groups to impose their non-standard views concerning Shankara's dates don't count as vandalism, but needs to be dealt with.) --[[User:Mel Etitis|Mel Etitis]] ([[User talk:Mel Etitis|<font color="green">Μελ Ετητης</font>)]] 22:26, 10 November 2005 (UTC)
**I've recently added [[The Coach and Horses, Greek Street, Soho, London]], but I think for worldwide recognition it would have to be the inn that played host to Jesus, Mary and Joseph when their housing benefit didn't come through. --[[User:Bodnotbod|bodnotbod]] 19:47, August 25, 2005 (UTC)
Mel Etitis, thank you for your prompt reply, especially in light of your busy schedule. Nothing in my proposal should be construed as restraining either of the parties from reverting edits by third parties as he sees fit and in accordance with the policies of Wikipedia. I've added language to this effect above. Thank you for pointing out the need to explicitly address this point. [[User:Wsiegmund|Walter Siegmund]] [[User_talk:Wsiegmund|(talk)]] 22:58, 10 November 2005 (UTC)
== Wikisolution ==
:In that case I cannot agree, this entire problem is the result of [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Adi_Shankara&diff=26218323&oldid=26103100 a revert Mel made of an anon edit]. I don't have major edits to be making to this article, but others do. Mel cannot be allowed to stand in their way. [[User:Sam Spade|Sam Spade]] 00:37, 11 November 2005 (UTC)
Hello,
::Thank you for giving serious consideration to my proposal. I have found that fighting other people's battles is rarely rewarded or appreciated. But that is your decision. Perhaps you can understand my disinclination to put effort into resolving a dispute that seems certain to erupt again. Best wishes. [[User:Wsiegmund|Walter Siegmund]] [[User_talk:Wsiegmund|(talk)]] 02:55, 11 November 2005 (UTC)
I was wondeing if Wiki will start a new project which will be similar to Google Answers.
::Sam Spade, you deserve a more complete response than I've given. I am sorry. I don't think your proposal that you and Mel Etitis not revert non-vandalism edits to the article without prior consensus is workable. What is and is not vandalism is a matter of judgement. I think before long you would disagree and fall back into conflict. The POV date dispute, is not [[Wikipedia:Vandalism|Vandalism]], in my opinion. If that is correct, under your proposal, a consensus would have to be obtained before each such edit could be reverted. Surely, the ensuing delay would only encourage the POV advocates. I suppose that an exception could be made for that category, but that makes deciding when to seek consensus before reverting more complex and thereby open to criticism. -[[User:Wsiegmund|Walter Siegmund]] [[User_talk:Wsiegmund|(talk)]] 04:44, 11 November 2005 (UTC)
It could have endless amount of problems with the solutions.
I don't like seeing Mel revert good edits. That is the root of our conflict here. I am agreeable w things that make that stop happening. [[User:Sam Spade|Sam Spade]] 03:56, 12 November 2005 (UTC)
IE. How do you find the square root of something?
:''For example type in http://www.google.com which means call up Google and put "sqrt of 7" in the question box. And then magically you get the answer. I guess I don't get the question, [[User:Hydnjo|hydnjo]] [[User talk:Hydnjo|talk]] 03:57, 21 August 2005 (UTC)''
==Outside comments on this dispute==
I don't understand. I can't find any differences of opinion, only some relatively dubious grammatical 'correction'. Is there really any difference in substance between the two supposedly alternative articles?
Then someone could answer it.
{{unsigned|195.93.21.104|09:06, 13 November 2005 }}
:Editing disputes often seem to be about rather minor matters when viewed by others. However, it is important to know that the editors of an article often care a great deal about the subject and the content of the article, e.g., [[Chimera]] and [[Circumcision]]. I found the following differences (parties correct me as necessary):
Is there any furtue for this type of project?
* grammar, especially the use of split infinitives.
* spelling/upper & lower case (always a problem when transliterating between two languages).
* extent of word-linking.
* the number of sections.
* one item in the biography list.
* wording described as somewhat POV.
* inclusion of a reference described as somewhat POV.
:I think that the progress made above suggests that it is possible to resolve these matters. Unfortunately, they do not seem to be at the root of this dispute. Sam Spade states, "... this entire problem is the result of a revert Mel made of an anon edit. I don't have major edits to be making to this article, but others do. Mel cannot be allowed to stand in their way." Also, "I don't like seeing Mel revert good edits. That is the root of our conflict here. I am agreeable w things that make that stop happening." [Talk:Adi_Shankara#Proposal_to_resolve_this_dispute]
:When I thought this dispute was about content, I resisted commenting on its history. (Rehashing the past is not a good way to move forward.) At this point, however, a short comment may be in order. I think [[WP:AGF|AGF]] might have helped. Suppose Sam Spade had assumed that Mel Etitis had overlooked the good points in the edit in question and that he would appreciate a kind and thoughtful note on his talk page to that effect. Something like the following might have been appropriate:
:''Wikipedia is first of all an online Encyclopedia. To the extent that someone has a question about a specific topic, our article will I think provide a comprehensive response. To the extent that an arbitrary question is posed, then we have [[Wikipedia:Ask a question]] to help the user that may have a question not addressed in our catalog of articles.''
...
:''Google Answers is an excellent place to pose specific (out of the ordinary) questions that most likely wouldn't be addressed within an encyclopedia article (How do I know if my septic system is working?). These types of questions may also be posed at the [[Wikipedia:Reference desk]] (or as a shortcut: [[WP:RD]]). Both places will probably get you a satisfactory response although at the [[Wikipedia:Reference desk]] there is no cost for an answer.<small>[[User:Hydnjo|hydnjo]] [[User talk:Hydnjo|talk]] 03:57, 21 August 2005 (UTC)</small>''
Regarding your reversion of the edits of 129.79.205.132 on [[Adi Shankara]], I think you may have overlooked certain positive aspects of those edits.
::Maybe he's asking if we could create technology like Google's that instantly answers questions automatically. If so, the answer is definitely not. However, the Reference Desk(this) is a great free substitute for Google Answers, IMHO. [[User:Superm401|Superm401]] | [[User_talk:Superm401|Talk]] 04:50, August 21, 2005 (UTC)
* An extra parenthesis was deleted in the first line. It is easy to miss, but surely a good thing.
* South was made lower case in keeping with my reading of the [[WP:MoS|MoS]] on directions. Am I misinterpreting the MoS here? I notice that [[South India]] exists. Perhaps that link should be substituted here.
* I wonder if the variant spelling of keraliya might be kept parenthetically, at least until the redlink article is stubbed and it can be debated there?
* Perhaps one or two of the grammar edits could be retained on the principle of [[WP:bite|encouraging newcomers]]?
Thank you for considering these items and for your efforts fighting vandals.
Best wishes, ...
:I think Mel Etitis may have responded in a manner more to your liking to such an approach. I think it is important to keep in mind the saying, "You can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar."
== hut in the Melbourne Botanical Gardens ==
:In conclusion, I don't know how, short of an indefinite block, to prevent an editor from reverting good, or bad, edits. All you can do is try to persuade the editor of your opinion of a particular edit. If you make a good case, most editors will either agree with you or try to reach an acceptable compromise. If not, you may have made the editor more receptive to the edit and you may persuade third parties. In either event, if you move on, you can improve some of the other 800,000 articles that need your attention. The anonymous editor, 129.79.205.132, has done that and has been complemented on his/her [[User talk:129.79.205.132|talk page]] on the quality of his/her contributions.
Does anyone know what [[:Image:Hut at melb botanical gardens.jpg|this hut]] is? Like is it Captain Cook's Cottage? It was taken at the Royal Melbourne Botanical Gardens --[[User:Fir0002|Fir0002]] 05:23, August 21, 2005 (UTC)
:It does look like Captain Cook's cottage, but that is in the Fitzroy Gardens, not the Royal Melbourne Botanical Gardens (unless it's been shifted again since I saw it in 1998).-[[User:Gadfium|gadfium]] 05:40, 21 August 2005 (UTC)
::Whatever it is, it looks far too new to have been used by Cook! At a guess, I'd say it is less than 30-40 years old - [[User:MPF|MPF]] 11:43, 21 August 2005 (UTC)
I hope that those reading my comments will not see them as one-sided. Although I have directed most of my comments toward Sam Spade, I have criticized the reversion of Mel Etitis in my example of how Sam Spade might have handled the dispute differently.
== wanna help u! ==
:Best wishes, [[User:Wsiegmund|Walter Siegmund]] [[User_talk:Wsiegmund|(talk)]] 23:58, 13 November 2005 (UTC)
hi
i am from shiraz/iran!
i would like to work with u
to complete the infos on shiraz my city!
contact me @ (email removed)
[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Adi_Shankara&diff=26218323&oldid=26103100 The anonymous edit at the root of this dispute.]
:[[Wikipedia:Welcome, newcomers|Welcome]]! Thanks for your offer of assistance; you don't need our permission, just go to the [[Shiraz, Iran]] page, click on the link that says "edit this page", and make any corrections and improvements you'd like to make to it, or indeed any other article. You may also be interested in the [http://fa.wikipedia.org/wiki/ Persian language Wikipedia] and the [http://ar.wikipedia.org/wiki/ Arabic-language wikipedia]. (''NB: I have sent an email to our Iranian friend pointing him to this reply''). --[[User:Robert Merkel|Robert Merkel]] 00:33, 22 August 2005 (UTC)
== A Dam, A Rock, A City, but what's the name ==
I am trying to find a name of a dam and city in the US that share the name of a rock.
:Plymouth? Plymouth rock. The city Plymouth. Results on yahoo show that there is a Plymouth Dam. I don't really understand your question, but I hope thats what your looking for. [[User:Rentastrawberry|Rentastrawberry]] 03:30, August 22, 2005 (UTC)
How about Boulder? The dam is a bit better known. [[User:Alteripse|alteripse]] 03:34, 22 August 2005 (UTC)
:Yeah but the dam's name is [[Hoover Dam]]. --[[User:Jpgordon|jpgordon]][[User talk:Jpgordon|∇∆∇∆]] 04:04, 22 August 2005 (UTC)
::Yeah, but originally it was called Boulder Dam; [[Boulder_Dam#The_naming_controversy]] ¦ [[User:Reisio|Reisio]] 04:20, 2005 August 22 (UTC)
:::Yeah, and Old New York was once New Amsterdam. --[[User:Jpgordon|jpgordon]][[User talk:Jpgordon|∇∆∇∆]] 05:14, 22 August 2005 (UTC)
::::Yeah, and one time my sister and her friends dressed up like [[The Bangles]] and made a music video, but that's also completely irrelevant. ¦ [[User:Reisio|Reisio]] 05:23, 2005 August 22 (UTC)
[[Rock Island Dam]]? I tried :( [[User:K1Bond007|K1Bond007]] 05:26, August 22, 2005 (UTC)
== Want to be registered ==
I am a Namibian citizen and old Swapo support. However, I have realised my support, to be invisible hence I am not a registered member of Swapo.
Therefore, my question goes like, "How do I become a registered member of Swapo? I am not in Namiba now and I have been living in a marginalised village while home therefore.
I'm reachable at the following e-mail addresses.
rkanime2001 at yahoo dot ca
rubestov at yahoo dot com
Your kindly attention will be highly appreciated!!
*Sorry, this is not the website of [[SWAPO]] but of Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. Apparently SWAPO does not have an operating website (though I would check on [http://www.swapo.org www.swapo.org] again in the future), so we were the first google result. I suggest calling friends and family back in Namibia or talking to fellow Namibian expatriates in the country you're in now (presumably Canada) about registering with SWAPO.--[[User:Pharos|Pharos]] 11:07, 22 August 2005 (UTC)
== Underground ==
(moved from article space - [[User:MacGyverMagic|Mgm]]|[[User talk:MacGyverMagic|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] 10:32, August 22, 2005 (UTC))<br>
i am looking in the unergroud of old sacamento,ca i have heard there is a undergound but not much is know any thing that is know would be good to know. - anon [[User:12.72.149.184]]
*Please be more specific. Do you mean an underground railway? I looked on www.urbanrail.net and www.lightrail.com, but could find nothing. Do you mean underground tunnels? [[User:Ground Zero|Ground Zero]] 20:15, 22 August 2005 (UTC)
The streets of Sacramento were raised in the 1860s because of repeated flooding. Try http://www.newsreview.com/issues/sacto/2003-07-17/cover.asp. [[User:Zoe|Zoe]] 23:44, August 22, 2005 (UTC)
== bengals vs. broncos mnf 2004 ==
Last night me and some people had a disagreement about the 2004 monday night football game bengals vs. broncos 2004. The issue was, when they came back from commercial they showed a local chili place called Camp Washington Chili. When they showed it John Madden said he loved Cincinnati style chili. The dispute over this is they say that the local area here is the only ones that seen this. Did the people of Denver see Camp Washington Chili on TV like we did?? Please let me know
Thanks,Chris
:Without having any specific knowledge of that particular broadcast, I would say that the answer is no. It is unlikely that a local restaurant would pay the amount of money necessary for a national ad. What seems more likely is that since it was a Bengals game, that John Madden was watching the Cincinnati feed and so made the related comment. --[[User:Cvaneg|CVaneg]] 19:07, 22 August 2005 (UTC)
:It sounds like they showed the place ''as part of the ABC feed'' before returning to the game, in which case everybody saw it -- it's not an ad but rather a culture spot. There wouldn't be a Cincy or Denver TV feed for a nationally-broadcast game, anyway. — [[User:Lomn|Lomn]] | [[User Talk:Lomn|Talk]] 19:23:35, 2005-08-23 (UTC)
== company registerred in gibralter ==
can i get info on a company reg. no 52251 adress po box 847 gibralter
:Write to them at PO Box 847, Gibralter? What information do you want? [[User:Trollderella|Trollderella]] 16:30, 22 August 2005 (UTC)
:I'd recommend spelling it [[Gibraltar]] when you do. [[User:DJ Clayworth|DJ Clayworth]] 16:54, 22 August 2005 (UTC)
== Tickets for sights in London ==
Is it possible to purchase tickets for 1. Buckingham Palace 2. Tower of London in Victoria Station? I have heard there is a shop for this right in Victoria Sta. Can you help? Regards Dave email DAVE5907@aol.com
:Why not buy a ticket to Buckingham palace at the [http://www.the-royal-collection.com/royaltickets/default.asp official Royal Collection site] and for the Tower of London try calling (0171) 709 0765 (British dialing code is 44) [[User:Superm401|Superm401]] | [[User_talk:Superm401|Talk]] 21:13, August 22, 2005 (UTC)
::Ye gods, it's years since we had 0171 numbers! That number maps to (020) 7709 0765 since London now has 8-digit local numbers. Buckingham Palace is only open in the summer when the Queen's away on holiday (only in August if I recall). The only other way in (other than hang-gliding or climbing the walls, which usually results in a quick exit) is to get invited to a Royal Garden Party, as I did in 1997 - no, I've no idea how you get invited, the invitation from the Lord Chancellor's Office just came in the post one Saturday morning.... -- [[User:Arwel Parry|Arwel]] 13:09, 23 August 2005 (UTC)
:::Oooh, royalty in our midst, eh? [[User:Robchurch|Rob Church]] <sup>''[[User_talk:Robchurch|Talk]]'' | ''[[User:Robchurch/Desk|Desk]]''</sup> 01:34, 25 August 2005 (UTC)
::If you are a citizen of a [[Commonwealth of Nations|Commonwealth]] country, contact your High Commission. I believe that they may be able to help get an invite to a Royal Garden Party. [[User:Ground Zero|Ground Zero]] 13:26, 23 August 2005 (UTC)
== Edith Falls and other unknown places ==
Hello I would like to know where [[Edith Falls]] should go? Thank you. --[[User:Newsreporter|Newsreporter]] 19:03, 22 August 2005 (UTC)
:[[Wikipedia:Naming_conventions]] ¦ [[User:Reisio|Reisio]] 23:06, 2005 August 22 (UTC)
=== Unknown ===
http://www.psu.edu/ur/about/oldom.jpg Hello what is this place? --[[User:Newsreporter|Newsreporter]] 19:43, 22 August 2005 (UTC)
*If I may hazzard a guess its a farm somewhere in [[Pennsylvania]] since it is on a [[Penn State]] server. [[User:68.83.229.146|68.83.229.146]] 22:11, 22 August 2005 (UTC)
*Clicking around in the folder that image is in finds some links and it appears much of it is about penn State history. Then [http://www.libraries.psu.edu/speccolls/psua/psgeneralhistory/historicaltimeline/histtoc.htm this] was linked to from one of those pages. It is the history of the Old Main building on what I assume is Penn State's campus. So your picture looks like farming around the unfinished old Old Main building sometime between 1856 and 1864. - [[User:Taxman|Taxman]] <sup><small>[[User talk:Taxman|Talk]]</sup></small> 22:46, August 22, 2005 (UTC)
=== Unknown ===
http://www.dreamlandscapes.com/space/space13.jpg Hello what is this? --[[User:Newsreporter|Newsreporter]] 19:42, 22 August 2005 (UTC)
:Looks like a poorly managed piece of [[macadam]] to me. --[[User:Bodnotbod|bodnotbod]] 00:09, August 23, 2005 (UTC)
=== Unknown road ===
Hello what road is this http://www.istockphoto.com/file_thumbview_approve/97489/2/Road_to_the_unknown.jpg? --[[User:Newsreporter|Newsreporter]] 19:40, 22 August 2005 (UTC)
Impossible to say with so little to go on. Could be almost anywhere, but reminds me of Switzerland. [[User:Shantavira|Shantavira]] 17:23, 25 August 2005 (UTC)
=== Unknown ___location ===
Hello where is this? http://www.trailblazersww2.org/gettypics3/Unknown%20Location%201.jpg --[[User:Newsreporter|Newsreporter]] 19:36, 22 August 2005 (UTC)
*With absolutely no proof and very limited memories of the city, it reminds me somewhat of [[Bristol]]. --[[User:Brasswatchman|Brasswatchman]] 06:04, August 23, 2005 (UTC)
*I'd concur that in some respects, it does look a little like Bristol, although of course, Bristol has been redeveloped so much that some of the older architecture is no longer there, making deduction and comparison like this tricky. I'll ponder this one for a while in the back of my head and get back to you if I have an answer. [[User:Robchurch|Rob Church]] <sup>''[[User_talk:Robchurch|Talk]]'' | ''[[User:Robchurch/Desk|Desk]]''</sup> 01:37, 25 August 2005 (UTC)
*My contact in Bristol says it's not Bristol, but could be [[Llandudno]]. However, the pic comes from a site dedicated to World War II Campaigns in Central Europe so I think we're looking at Germany. Maybe ask on the German Wikipedia? [[User:Shantavira|Shantavira]] 08:00, 26 August 2005 (UTC)
== Bell of Silence ==
Hello does anyone know anything about this? --[[User:Newsreporter|Newsreporter]] 19:24, 22 August 2005 (UTC)
: Did you mean the "[[Cone of Silence]]" of the comedy ''[[Get Smart]]''? -- [[User:Toytoy|Toytoy]] 01:26, August 23, 2005 (UTC)
==Serial Number Location on a [[Model T Ford]] Truck==
Are you asking where you would find it, or what format they take, or what they mean, or who came up with them, or ... ? [[User:Proto|Proto]]<small> [[User_talk:Proto|t]] [[Special:Contributions/Proto|c]]</small> 14:59, 23 August 2005 (UTC)
== Pedefiles ==
Do they abuse both male and female children, or do they choose one gender only?
* There is no simple answer. Some prefer one sex over the other, while others abuse children of both sexes. See [[Pedophilia]]. [[User:Ground Zero|Ground Zero]] 21:52, 22 August 2005 (UTC)
:*In exactly the same way as for adults who are attracted to other adults it depends on the individual - some are attracted to girls, some to boys and some to either. I cannot cite any sources for this, but I have a vague recollection of hearing somewhere that the proportion attracted to either gender is higher than the proportion of bisexual adults in the general population; if this correct or even if the study was scientifically rigourous and statistically significant I cannot say. For those attracted to both, I suspect that the 'availablity' (for what of a much better term) of the children has an impact on who they become involved with. See also the [[Paedophile]] article. [[User:Thryduulf|Thryduulf]] 21:58, 22 August 2005 (UTC)
::*I don't think it's a question of these paedophiles being "bisexual" as much as it is that they are attracted to "children" as children, and not as boys or girls. [[User:Ground Zero|Ground Zero]] 22:03, 22 August 2005 (UTC)
::: I agree. Many people tend to confuse paedophilia with homosexuality. The fact that a particular paedophile is attracted to children of the same sex does not make them a homosexual. The fact that a particular paedophile is attracted to children of the opposite sex does not make them a heterosexual. The fact that a male adult is attracted to other male adults does not mean they have any sexual interest in little boys (or little girls for that matter), despite what some elements of popular culture and media-induced hype would often have us believe. Hetero-, homo- and bi- sexuality all relate to sexual activity or relationships between adults. Where the victim of an adult's sexual attention is a child, that is paedophilia, pure and simple. I am even tempted to say that the majority of paedophiles whose victims are the same sex are heterosexual rather than homosexual when it comes to their relationships with adults. That is just my belief and I have no evidence to back it up, but certainly media reports would tend to suggest this is the case. Cheers [[User:JackofOz|JackofOz]] 02:14, 23 August 2005 (UTC)
The [[Greek language|Greek]] word "paedophilia" means "love of boys". Despite this, paedophiles can be attracted to boys, girls, or both. While most paedophiles are men, I'm sure female paedophiles exist. [[User:JIP|— <font color="#CC0000">J</font><font color="#00CC00">I</font><font color="#0000CC">P</font>]] | [[User talk:JIP|Talk]] 18:49, 23 August 2005 (UTC)
*Arguably, see [[Mary Kay Letourneau]]. [[User:Ground Zero|Ground Zero]] 18:55, 23 August 2005 (UTC)
==[[Wikipedia:Citing Wikipedia]]==
We have an article on how to cite Wikipedia, and it seems likely that some people do. Are there some examples of books, papers or articles that cite Wikipedia? [[User:Radiant!|R]][[User_talk:Radiant!|adiant]][[meta:mergist|_<font color="orange">>|<</font>]] 14:03, August 23, 2005 (UTC)
:There's [[Wikipedia:Wikipedia as an academic source]]. [[User:Frencheigh|Frencheigh]] 14:18, 23 August 2005 (UTC)
*Excellent. Thanks. [[User:Radiant!|R]][[User_talk:Radiant!|adiant]][[meta:mergist|_<font color="orange">>|<</font>]] 14:25, August 23, 2005 (UTC)
== NTB IN BENIN ==
:You need to ask a question. See [[NTB]] and [[Benin]] perhaps? [[User:Duncharris|Dunc]]|[[User talk:duncharris|☺]] 15:15, 23 August 2005 (UTC)
::I found the [[NTB]] article to be pretty uniformative, to be honest... but I would hazzard a guess that the user is looking for the application of negotiations to end [[non-tariff barrier]]s to trade in agricultural produce for Benin, one of the major achievements of the [[Uruguay Round]] of the [[Agreement on Agriculture]] [http://www.fao.org/documents/show_cdr.asp?url_file=/docrep/003/x7353e/x7353e02.htm here] is a start. [[User:Trollderella|Trollderella]] 16:47, 23 August 2005 (UTC)
== InuYasha ==
In the wikipedia article on Inu Yasha, found at:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inuyasha
It states that there is an episode #168 available only in Japan.
The most popular/frequented websites on the Inu Yasha anime do not list or mention this episode, neither do the various fansub sites that have followed and translated the Inu Yasha anime.
Can I please have further information on this reference?
Thank you
:Someone here might know but the better bet would be to ask on the talk page for that article, [[Talk:InuYasha]]. [[User:Dismas|Dismas]] 21:26, 23 August 2005 (UTC)
== [[General Hospital]] ==
Can anyone give me a plot synopsis of what's happened in the past week on [[General Hospital]]? I haven't been able to see the show due to my schedule. [[User:Hermione1980|Hermione]]'''[[User talk:Hermione1980|1980]]''' 20:42, 23 August 2005 (UTC)
:[http://www.soapcentral.com/soapcentral/index.php Soap Opera Central] has recaps of several soap operas, including General Hospital. [[User:Chuck Carroll|Chuck]] 21:47, August 23, 2005 (UTC)
== PLEASE HELP! ==
I am writing a term paper on James D Watson and i would like his email address
:The article [[James D. Watson]] says that he serves as chancellor of the [[Cold Spring Harbor Laboratory]] in Cold Spring Harbor, New York. This link http://www.cshl.edu/ at the bottom of the article gives a contact link. [[User:Hydnjo|hydnjo]] [[User talk:Hydnjo|talk]] 00:54, 24 August 2005 (UTC)
== What is Wikipedia's copyright date? ==
Please see [[Wikipedia:Citing Wikipedia]] (presuming that's what you're aiming at).--[[User:Pharos|Pharos]] 01:40, 24 August 2005 (UTC)
:<s>But, I think it is also important to note that technically Wikipedia's contents are not copyrighted. The text and much of the other contents are released under the [[GNU Free Documentation License]]. </s> [[User:Ike9898|ike9898]] 00:35, August 26, 2005 (UTC)
::They most certainly are. You can't licence something unless it's copyrighted, and I certainly haven't agreed to give up the copyright on my edits. We merely licence it under the GFDL to allow others to reuse it. --[[User:fvw|fvw]][[User talk:Fvw|<SMALL><FONT COLOR="green">*</FONT></SMALL>]] 00:38, August 26, 2005 (UTC)
:::Oops. You know, that makes sense now that I think of it. (I'll strike my comment to avoid spearding mis-information. [[User:Ike9898|ike9898]] 01:44, August 26, 2005 (UTC)
::::So to answer the original question, the copyright date on a Wikipedia article can be determined by looking at the page's history. [[User:Gentgeen|Gentgeen]] 08:53, 26 August 2005 (UTC)
== beggarman, thief (1979) ==
Hello, Do you know where I can purchase a video of the mini-series Beggarman, Thief (1979)? thank you,
*I think you actually mean [http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0080297/ Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy] of the same year. Hopefully you'll find it easier to buy now (especially with shopping links on the right hand side of that IMDB page). --[[User:Bodnotbod|bodnotbod]] 19:05, August 24, 2005 (UTC)
**''Beggarman, Thief'' is the sequel miniseries to ''[[Rich Man, Poor Man]]'', but there is no listing for it at amazon, so I imagine it isn't released on video. [[User:Zoe|Zoe]] 22:29, August 24, 2005 (UTC)
== Adding a Biography ==
I would like to add the biography of Roberto Alvarez-Galloso,CPUR to Wikipedia.
:Well, I don't know who he is, and google wasn't much help, but if you can establish the fact that he's notable for something, go ahead and write the article! You don't need anyone's permission to write an article. Happy writing! [[User:Dismas|Dismas]] 13:04, 24 August 2005 (UTC)
== How to determine if a book is first edition or first printing ==
How would you determine if a book was first edition or first printing? Does it mean anything if there is not an ISBN # on the book? Are Book Club Editions thought to be worth less or are they altered in any way from a "normal" publication? What is a "remainder mark?" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_publishing Thanks for any help. Barbara Guest
*Usually stuff like the book's edition are mentioned on one of the first few pages together with it's copyright notice. Each seperate edition needs a new ISBN, so if you could establish one it would help. Maybe the book doesn't have an ISBN because it's self-published. I could try to find out more if I knew the title. - [[User:131.211.210.12|131.211.210.12]] 13:27, 24 August 2005 (UTC)
**If the book is old it might not have an [[ISBN]] number. [[User:Ornil|Ornil]] 14:17, 24 August 2005 (UTC)
: First editions are generally those which do ''not'' mention on their imprint page any other editions or reprintings. Book Club editions are generally worth less than original editions as they are mass produced and sold direct to the consumer. Since they are new editions they might well be altered in some way; they might even be completely resigned and re-set. Books without an ISBN are those published before about 1970, or for private circulation, or self-published by someone who does not understand the ISBN system. A remainder mark is any mark, on the outside of book, used by the publisher to show that the book has been withdrawn for the normal markets and that the remaining stock has been sold off cheaply to a remainder specialist. [[User:Shantavira|Shantavira]] 14:30, 24 August 2005 (UTC)
:Since books don't necessarily tell you whether they are first editions, try searching a large antique book seller like http://www.abebooks.com/. See if they list a first edition of your book. See if it matches your book in every respect. If so you probably have a first. [[User:Notinasnaid|Notinasnaid]] 17:47, 24 August 2005 (UTC)
*I was under the impression that the edition numbers in the front page counted down sequentially to 1 if the item was a first edition. Some newer titles also specify "First Edition." As an example, I've a book near me which counts "10 9 8 7 6 5 4" indicating a fourth edition. [[User:Robchurch|Rob Church]] <sup>''[[User_talk:Robchurch|Talk]]'' | ''[[User:Robchurch/Desk|Desk]]''</sup> 01:47, 25 August 2005 (UTC)
**I think, but am not sure, that those numbers may actually be printings rather than editions. If a book actually says "first edition" on the copyright page, it almost surely is one. but many books never use this wording. [[User:DESiegel|DES]] [[User talk:DESiegel|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] 00:47, 26 August 2005 (UTC)
**Yes, those numbers are (re)printings. [[User:Shantavira|Shantavira]] 08:02, 26 August 2005 (UTC)
== english bank notes ==
Can you tell us which denomination of bank note did the Bank of England introduce in 1752 and withdraw in 1945.
joyce.peter@tesco.net
Peter
*I can't answer your question, but our article on [[British banknotes]] provides some clues. [[User:Warofdreams|Warofdreams]] 13:57, 24 August 2005 (UTC)
I'm assuming that this is a quiz question. If I recall correctly all denominations above £5 were withdrawn in 1945 to counter the forgeries produced by [[Operation Bernhardt]]. Question is what was introduced in 1752? I would guess the tenner. [[User:Jooler|Jooler]] 01:38, 25 August 2005 (UTC)
== submarines of the world ==
According to a NY Times article about the recent distressed Russian submarine, 38 countries currently have submarines. Do you all know which countries?
thanks, Richard
:our article on [[List of submarine classes]] lists:
#[[Royal Australian Navy|Australia]]
#[[Canadian Navy|Canada]]
#[[French Navy|France]]
#[[German Navy|Germany]]
#[[Italian Navy|Italy]]
#[[Japanese Navy|Japan]]
#[[Dutch Navy|Netherlands]]
#[[Singaporean Navy|Singapore]]
#[[Soviet Navy|Soviet Union]] / [[Russian Navy|Russia]]
#[[Royal Navy|United Kingdom]]
#:the [[:Category:Submarines by country]] also inlcudes
#[[Royal Norwegian Navy|Norway]]
#[[Turkish Navy|Turkey]]
#[[Peoples Liberation Army Navy|Peoples Republic of China]]
#:Other countries can be inferred from separate articles
#[[Polish Navy|Poland]] ([[ORP Orzeł]])
#[[Finnish Navy|Finland]] ([[Vesikko]])
#[[Pakistani Navy|Pakistan]] ([[PNS Hangor]])
:Although that doens't get to 38. [[User:Thryduulf|Thryduulf]] 16:13, 24 August 2005 (UTC)
:17. The [[United States Navy]] has the [[Submarines in the United States Navy|odd submarine or 10]]. -- [[User:ALoan|ALoan]] [[User_talk:ALoan|(Talk)]] 17:03, 24 August 2005 (UTC)
:18. [[Danish Navy|Denmark]] ([[HDMS Sælen (S323)]])
:: Also this from [Jane's http://www.janes.com/regional_news/europe/news_briefs/jdw990602_04.shtml] about Danish submarines surving military budget cuts. [[User:AlMac|AlMac]]|[[User talk:AlMac|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] 07:28, 25 August 2005 (UTC)
:19. [[Argentine Navy|Argentina]] ([[ARA San Luis]]) -- [[User:ALoan|ALoan]] [[User_talk:ALoan|(Talk)]] 17:07, 24 August 2005 (UTC)
:From a Google search, 20
:20 [[Israeli Navy|Israel]],
:21. [[Swedish Navy|Sweden]] ([[HMS Gotland (Gtd)]]),
:22. [[Indian Navy|India]],
plus from [http://library.nps.navy.mil/home/bibs/submarine/subarticlescntry.htm here] ,
:23. [[Greek Navy|Greece]],
:24. [[Iranian Navy|Iran]],
:25. [[Indonesian Navy|Indonesia]],
:26. [[Korean People's Army|North Korea]],
:27. [[Royal Malaysian Navy|Malaysia]],
:28. [[South African Navy|South Africa]],
:29. [[Taiwanese Navy|Taiwan]],
:Query Spain and Portugal.
:Does anyone have a copy of ''[[Jane's]] submarines''? -- [[User:ALoan|ALoan]] [[User_talk:ALoan|(Talk)]] 17:22, 24 August 2005 (UTC)
Also
:30. [[Ukrainian Navy|Ukraine]] [http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/ukraine/vms.htm]
:31. [[Spanish Navy|Spain]] [http://reference.allrefer.com/country-guide-study/spain/spain164.html]
:<s>Holland [http://www.dutchsubmarines.com/]</s> [Holland is the Netherlands!]
:32. [[Portuguese Navy|Portugal]] [http://www.fuelcelltoday.com/FuelCellToday/IndustryInformation/IndustryInformationExternal/NewsDisplayArticle/0,1602,5862,00.html]
:[[User:DJ Clayworth|DJ Clayworth]] 18:18, 24 August 2005 (UTC)
:33. [[South Korean Navy|South Korea]] -- [[User:ALoan|ALoan]] [[User_talk:ALoan|(Talk)]] 19:16, 24 August 2005 (UTC)
:From hazegray.org...
::34 - Bulgaria (1 ex-Soviet) [http://www.hazegray.org/worldnav/europe/bulgaria.htm]
::35 - Croatia (1 "ex-Yugoslav midget") [http://www.hazegray.org/worldnav/europe/croatia.htm]
::36 - Romania (1, inoperable) [http://www.hazegray.org/worldnav/europe/romania.htm]
::37 - Yugoslavia (1) [http://www.hazegray.org/worldnav/europe/yugo.htm], though this dates to 2001 so presumably Serbia/Montenegro now.
::38 - Colombia (4) [http://www.hazegray.org/worldnav/americas/colombia.htm]
::39 - Brazil (4, 1 building) [http://www.hazegray.org/worldnav/americas/brazil.htm]
::40 - Venezuela (2) [http://www.hazegray.org/worldnav/americas/venez.htm]'
::41 - Peru (4, 2 reserve) [http://www.hazegray.org/worldnav/americas/peru.htm]
::42 - Chile (3, 2 building) [http://www.hazegray.org/worldnav/americas/chile.htm]
::43 - Ecuador (2) [http://www.hazegray.org/worldnav/americas/ecuador.htm
::44 - Egypt (4) [http://www.hazegray.org/worldnav/africa/egypt.htm]
::45 - Algeria (2) [http://www.hazegray.org/worldnav/africa/algeria.htm]
:It also looks like Cuba may have had subs, now derelict. Note we're past 38 - some of these may have recently been paid off/scrapped, or are too small / sufficiently inoperable to not be included in the counts. I think I culled all the duplicates, though. [[User:Shimgray|Shimgray]] 22:47, 24 August 2005 (UTC)
:A key source is [Jane's http://www.janes.com/]. [[User:AlMac|AlMac]]|[[User talk:AlMac|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] 07:25, 25 August 2005 (UTC)
== where in the hell can i purchase group x's albums? ==
hey up everybody, i wanna get stepping on the crowetch owf your americain presidaint, (by group x) but, i cant find anywhere that supplies this c.d that can send it out to either the u.k or spain, just what can i do?! please help!
magie mai
:<small>This delightful question by [[81.47.71.21]]. [[User:Hydnjo|hydnjo]] [[User talk:Hydnjo|talk]] 21:38, 24 August 2005 (UTC) </small>
:The [[Group X]] article has a link to their website which has a section for buying exactly what you want: http://www.groupxarab.com/buy.html ¦ [[User:Reisio|Reisio]] 22:59, 2005 August 24 (UTC)
== Citytv Edmonton through the internet ==
I am interested in getting CKEC through the internet, because I live in another province and my cable provider doesn't have rights to that channel. I don't have money to invest in a satelite dish, which is the only way I could get the channel on TV. Can anyone guide me with regards to how to obtain access through the internet, and which website I should visit to set it up?
Salouah
== Subsidiary vs. Joint Venture ==
To whom it may concern:
I am writing a case study for a foreign enterprise [ABC Co.] that set up an equity joint venture with a local company here in Shanghai, China [ABC (Shanghai) Co., Ltd.]. I would like to know if it is correct to call ABC (Shanghai) Co., Ltd. a subsidiary of ABC Co. (the mother company) even if its not a wholly owned subsidiary but a joint venture with a local chinese company. The equity share is 70% foreign, 30% local.
I appreciate your kind help.
A Wikipedia member
Lui Dacera
P.S. I am extremely thankful of this website. I am hoping that I can contribute some contents as soon as I get some free time. Thank you again.
== NEW YORK AREA ==
Could you please let me kmow if any part or district of South Shields was known as New York. I have an address 1 Coronation St New York 1907., but very much doubt if this refers to America.
regards
Robert
*You are llikely looking for [[New York, Tyne and Wear]], part of [[North Tyneside]] near [[North Shields]]. There is also a [[New York, Lincolnshire|"New York" in Lincolnshire]] in [[East Lindsey]]. These places are not historical; they still exist today.--[[User:Pharos|Pharos]] 10:20, 25 August 2005 (UTC)
== Are Old Reference Desk Questions and Answers Archived? ==
*Have a look at the top of this page. - [[User:131.211.210.14|131.211.210.14]] 09:08, 25 August 2005 (UTC)
*Or just follow this link: [[Wikipedia:Reference desk archive]]. -- [[User:FirstPrinciples|FP]] <sup>[[User_talk:FirstPrinciples|<talk>]][[Special:Contributions/FirstPrinciples|<edits>]]</sup> 09:11, August 25, 2005 (UTC)
== Pain management ==
Would you kindly let me know if there is any reference material on the 'best practice' relating to the British Medical Association on pain management and the use of drug treatment. How for instance do they avoid drug dependance or excessive use of the same drug i.e opiods or similar drugs that can lose effivacy or through excessive use, body tolerence, or addiction. i am particulalry interested in paracetomol/codine preparations. Prescribed or over the counter.
I hope this makes sense.
i much appreciate your time.
Steve Manning
steve manningandco co uk
Hi Steve. You may find this article interesting [http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4153134.stm Addiction warning for painkillers] - the [[BMA]] do not have a Best Practice guideline for pain management, but there a few links on the right of this BBC article that may help you. [[User:Proto|Proto]]<small> [[User_talk:Proto|t]] [[Special:Contributions/Proto|c]]</small> 11:16, 25 August 2005 (UTC)
== points of view about fast food restaurant ==
From the top of this page: "The Wikipedia Reference desk serves the same function as a library reference desk. It answers questions about the world around us.". Please read the rest of the instructions there and ask a question with details on exactly what you want to know. - [[User:MacGyverMagic|Mgm]]|[[User talk:MacGyverMagic|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] 13:00, August 25, 2005 (UTC)
:If the questioner goes to [[WP:RD]] and selects '''Post''' in any category they get an ''edit'' window with no instructions. Also, since your response was not indented I thought at first that it ''was'' the question. [[User:Hydnjo|hydnjo]] [[User talk:Hydnjo|talk]] 18:42, 25 August 2005 (UTC)
== WD & HO Wells ==
Hello there,
I was just wondering if you might have any information on collectable items around the time of Queeen Victoria for the above mentioned Tobacco company formed in 1876?
Thank you for yor time
Chris Evans
== Pop out side menus ==
How do you create pop out side menus for a website similar to [http://www.dpreview.com/ these]? Is there a nice little java script or a program which will generate the necessary code? --[[User:Fir0002|Fir0002]] 10:41, August 24, 2005 (UTC)
:http://www.htmldog.com/articles/suckerfish/dropdowns/example/vertical.html<br/>http://www.htmldog.com/articles/suckerfish/dropdowns/ ¦ [[User:Reisio|Reisio]] 13:46, 2005 August 24 (UTC)
::That's exactly what I wanted, but I don't know much about html, and I can't follow the steps laid out in that second link. Could someone with more skills tell me exactly what I'd put into a cell (I'm using Frontpage with the td tags) for the drop down menu to work? the text is obvioulsy irrelevant as I ''can'' at least find and replace that! --[[User:Fir0002|Fir0002]] 12:12, August 25, 2005 (UTC)
:::''I'm using Frontpage with the td tags'' - that's bad on both counts. [[FrontPage]] creates terrible code and table cells (<tt><nowiki><td></nowiki></tt>'s) should not be used for layout. If you can provide an image of what you want or the website as it exists now, though, I can provide explicit instructions. ¦ [[User:Reisio|Reisio]] 19:16, 2005 August 25 (UTC)
::::Ok, [[:Image:Website.jpg|this]] is the basic layout of the page (I'll probably be making some changes to the banner though) Along the left blue bar is where I want the pop out menus. There needs to be about six inital choices on the menu: accomodation, shopping food and services, events listing, historic places, gallery and links. In accomodation there has to be three more options: Motels, Bed & Breakfast, Hotels and Hotel Units, Farmhouse or Groups, and Caravan Parks. Then in each of those groups there will be some more options (if you could maybe just put item 1 etc to about 10? I think I should be able to catch on!)
::::I'll also want to put some more options to food and services but I haven't decided yet. If I can't catch on to what you've done with the rest I'll ask you then
::::Thanks so much for your help!!! --[[User:Fir0002|Fir0002]] 06:27, August 26, 2005 (UTC)
== Bob Mackie Barbie Empress Bride ==
In speaking with several individuals the question that repeatedly comes up is why do some of the Bob Mackie Empress Bride Barbies have a certificate of authenticity and others don't? Some of us think that the original first grouping that saturated the market did not have the certificates. Is it possible that this logic is correct? Please help us solve this mystery question. Thanks so much for your time and effort. Teri O.
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