Talk:Irish people and User talk:Susvolans: Difference between pages

Revision as of 14:52, 27 October 2005

Revision as of 16:10, 22 November 2005

Line 1:

{{add|Add a new comment here}}

{{peerreview}}

==Y- ChromosomeArchives analysis==

[[User talk:Susvolans/Archive 1|August 2004 to September 2005]]

''Yet intriguingly, recent Y-chromosome (male descent) DNA studies have shown that most Irish people (in addition to the Welsh, some Scots and English) are close genetic relatives of the Basque people, setting them all apart from most European peoples (mtDNA, or female descent shows their maternal ancestors to be of broad north European origin)''<br>

My reading of the ''Nature'' paper does not indicate that the Y-chromosome work sets ''them all apart from most European peoples''. In fact what it says is <br>''we estimate that hg 1 (haplogroup 1) frequencies follow a cline within Europe, extending from the Near East (1.8% in Turkey) to a peak in the Spanish Basque country (89%) in the west. This cline mirrors other genetic gradients in Europe and is best explained by the migration of Neolithic farmers from the Near East.''<br>

My understanding of this is that certain genetic markers become more frequent the further west one travels in Europe, with a peak frequency in the far west. To state that this sets them appart from most European peoples is either a deliberate distortion of the science, or most likely a misunderstanding of it.

It does not necessarily make Irish men who possess these Y-chromosome markers more genetically similar to Basque people, it just means that their Y-chromosomes are more similar, but Y-chromosomes are a special case, which is why they are used for these studies. In fact the mitochondrial DNA data do not support the claim of Irish-Basque people being set appart from other Europeans either. The piece also says that there are ''highly significant differences in the frequency of hg 1 (haplogroup 1) between Irish gaelic and non gaelic Y-chromosomes'', they mean Irish non-gaelic and Irish gaelic, based on their assumptions regarding surname and geography. That is that Irish men with Irish names appear to possess Y-chromosomes with hg 1 more frequently than Irish men without Irish names, but this is not supprising, as they point out that surnames are inherited patrilineally and so are Y-chromosomes. These sort of genetic data are highly specialised and specific and do not necessarily support the sort of conclusions non-experts might draw.[[User:Wobble|Alun]] 14:28, 23 October 2005 (UTC)

==Removal ofThank you Photos==

Thank you for speaking up on the behalf of a user you did not even know. I appreciate your efforts for justice. Should you have any lingering concerns, I encourage you to come to my talk page and join the dialog there on what has occured. Discussion is the best way to calm stormy waters. [[User:TheChief|<font color=#0000ff>The</font><font color=#ff7f00>Chief</font>]] [[User_talk:TheChief|(<font color=#0000ff>Pow</font><font color=#ff7f00>Wow</font>)]] 17:30, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

Who, and why, were the photos of Ali, Jeff and Jimi removed? What was so objectionable about featuring them?[[User:Fergananim|Fergananim]] 17:20, 23 October 2005 (UTC)

==Ignore all rules==

== African-American Irish ==

First, obviously, if rule 5 were deleted, it would become four pillars rather than five. I think that any change to the four/five pillars should be well discussed on its talk page first. Failure to do so would be to ignore all rules, which could be seen as [[WP:POINT]].

Why are "Jimi" Hendrix and Cassius Clay included as people of Irish descent? Their inclusion makes Wikipedia seem foolish, juvenile, and unreliable. It is as if some teenage sports and rock music fan is being allowed to express his own pubescent enthusiasm. Thus the insistence on displaying prominent photographs of them, when many important Irish people are not shown.

I personally think that the five pillars document is fine, because it says that there are no rules other than those listed, and the writers' rules of engagement are one of the pillars. The real problem is that Ignore All Rules is the wrong summary of the guideline, and is sufficiently wrong as to be a destructive title, because it can easily be read as meaning that one can ignore civility. [[User:Robert McClenon|Robert McClenon]] 18:16, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

Did Hendrix and Clay claim Irish parentage? If so, such a claim may be on a level with the popular assertion of descent from Cherokee Indians. Can it be proved? If not, is it suitable for an encyclopedia, which Wikipedia aspires to be?

Thanks Susvolans - I'm just taking baby steps for now [[User:Redkaty|Redkaty]] 14:38, 10 November 2005 (UTC)

Why was "Jimi" Hendrix described as "hugely influential?" My POV is that he was hugely inconsequential. Am I more right or wrong than someone else?

==Final decision==

Is it racist to exclude Hendrix and Clay? This is supposed to be a list of people whose genetic background derived from a North Atlantic island near England. If so, then political correctness has again been shown to be laughable, if not dangerous.[[User:205.188.116.12|205.188.116.12]] 13:46, 27 October 2005 (UTC)RyanWalsh

The arbitration committee has reached a final decision in the [[Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Louis Epstein]] case [[User:Raul654|&rarr;Raul654]] 02:12, 12 November 2005 (UTC)

== [[Wikipedia:Neutral point of view]] ==

: I agree. Unless proved, this makes Wikipedia look like nothing more than someplace for kids to add their grafitti. Having grown up in the era of Mohammed Ali (Cassius Clay) and Jimi Hendrix, I never heard either they or their spokespeople claim they had any Irish background.

Regarding the [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Neutral_point_of_view&curid=39805&diff=28415528&oldid=28413773 revert; the claim that all five pillars are unchangeable has no foundation in policy], why is it there then? Is the [[Wikipedia:Five pillars]], wrong? -- [[User:Zondor|Zondor]] 17:42, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

:And quite frankly it makes no more sense than if I went over to a list of famous African Americans and added Daniel O'Day and John L. Sullivan.[[User:IrishHermit|Finbar]] 14:52, 27 October 2005 (UTC)

== Updated poll ==

I have completely changed the poll. Please see [[Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (years in titles)/Poll]] --[[User:AllyUnion|AllyUnion]] [[User talk:AllyUnion|(talk)]] 02:39, 17 November 2005 (UTC)

== curly quotes ==

May I ask why you moved [["—All You Zombies—"]] to [[“—All You Zombies—”]]? &mdash; [[User:Flamingspinach|flamingspinach]] | [[User_talk:Flamingspinach|(talk)]] 06:13, 21 November 2005 (UTC)

== class="wikitable" ==

I wouldn't know how, but why would you want to anyway? [[User:Bluemoose|Martin]] 14:32, 22 November 2005 (UTC)

:Aha, so you mean find occurances where it was expanded when it used [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Prettytable&oldid=23029079 this] revision of the prettytable. In which case the only way I think you could find them would be to get someone to use an SQL query on the database dump, but I don't know how successful that would be. At the moment I am not capable of doing this, but plently of other people are. [[User:Bluemoose|Martin]] 16:10, 22 November 2005 (UTC)