Wikipedia:Village pump (technical) and Willa Ford: Difference between pages

Revision as of 14:49, 8 November 2005

Revision as of 21:35, 22 November 2005

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{{Villagepumppages|Technical|The '''technical''' section of the village pump is used to discuss technical issues. Bugs and feature requests should be made at [[MediaZilla:|BugZilla]] since there is no guarantee developers will read this page.

{{unreferenced}}

'''Willa Ford''' (born '''Amanda Lee Williford''' on [[January 22]], [[1981]]) is an [[United States|American]] [[pop singer]].

'''FAQ:''' Intermittent database lags can make new articles take some minutes to appear, and cause the watchlist, contributions, and page history/old views sometimes not show the very latest changes. This is an ongoing issue we are working on.

[[Image:Willaford.jpeg|right|thumbnail|Willa Ford]]

'''Details about the occasional slow speeds and deadlock errors: [http://www.livejournal.com/community/wikitech/1432.html here]'''

==Biography==

Please sign and date your post (by typing <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki> or clicking the signature icon in the edit toolbar).

Willa was born and raised in [[Ruskin, Florida]]. She began pursuing her dream of becoming a singer at the age of 8, when she started singing with the ''Tampa Bay Children's Choir''. By the time she reached age 11, she had moved on from the children’s choir to the Tampa-based children’s performing arts troupe, ''Entertainment Revue''. This group consisted of 20 girls ages 5-16. The tour the area and sang at such places as, [[Walt Disney World]] and Busch Gardens. Willa worked hard in the group and moved her way up from a chorus member to the role of featured soloist. When Willa was 15, she left the troupe and landed spot with a local foursome ''FLA''. She didn’t stay long with the group before deciding to head out to Los Angeles.

In 1999 Willa while performing under the stage name '''Mandah''', she was signed to [[MCA]]. While with MCA she released a song on the double-platinum soundtrack ‘''Pokémon The First Movie’'' called ‘''Lullaby''’. She also landed a spot as an opening act for the [[Backstreet Boys]]. Which managed to attract a lot of attention, for her performances as well as her relationship with one of its members. Soon Willa’s label changed her stage name from Mandah, to avoid confusion with another female singer, to Willa Ford and tried to promote a beautiful singer with a good-girl image. After some negative publicity that tainted their clean-cut image for Willa, MCA decided to drop her, letting her move on to a label that would embrace her bad-girl image.

'''Please add new topics at the bottom of the page.'''}}

{{Shortcut|[[WP:VPT]]}}

It wasn’t long before [[Lava/Atlantic]] would give Willa a deal and put her in to studio with a diverse variety of writers and producers. Although she had many talented writers working with her, Willa was determined to write most of the lyrics herself, which was unlike other teen singers at the time. She would use her life for material or make up a character that she would want to be.

On July 17, 2001 Willa released her debut album ‘''Willa Was Here''’. The album contained the single (with a hyper link to the sexy video), ‘''I Wanna Be Bad''’. The album used smooth pop/R&B grooves, hot dance beats and vocoders. Although Willa has the beauty and talent mixed in with a hit single, her album only reached #56 on the [[Billboard Charts]].

While promoting her album, Willa did a Mall tour for ''Nautica Kids'', served as the spokesperson for ''Pantene Pro-V’s ‘Pro-Voice’'' campaign, and appeared on the in-concert cable special, ''Teensation''. Also [[MTV]] got Willa to host their reality series ‘''I Bet You Will''’. MTV was impressed by Willa’s hosting they got her to also host their Spring Break series, which included ‘''The Morning After''’. Willa’s song ‘''I Wanna Be Bad''’ became the theme song for ''Six-Flags'' theme parks and was also use by ''7-UP'' for one of their campaigns. Willa also became a model for ''Bongo'' Ads. In 2002 Willa co-wrote and sang a duet with [[Koreans|Korean]] Pop star [[Park Ji Yoon]] intitled ‘''Nastified''’, which was on Park's 5th album ''Man''.

In 2003 Willa came back with a hot dance song that forever immortalized a sorority chant, ‘''A Toast To Men''’, which featured a special guest rapper [[Lady May]]. The single was from her unreleased sophomore album ‘''Sexysexobsessive''’. The single did well, but cause of some legalities at her label her album wasn’t released. This also caused Willa to leave the label and go in search for a new one.

== [[Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)/Archive|Technical archive]] ==

While fans wait for a her sophomore release, Willa has made some appearances. In 2005 Willa was chosen from many candidates to host the fighting competition reality show ‘''The Ultimate Fighter''’. After the show’s finale Willa got a shot at being the summers guest doll, for the Vegas ''Pussy Cat Dolls'' show. As well as being one of the celebrity quarterbacks in the upcoming ''2006 Lingerie Bowl III''. Which will air during the ''Super Bowl'' halftime.

Discussions older than 7 days (date of last made comment) are moved [[Wikipedia:Village_pump_(technical)/Archive|here]]. These discussions will be kept archived for 7 more days. During this

period the discussion can be moved to a relevant talk page if appropriate. After 7 days the

discussion will be permanently removed.

==Discography==

==Can't make new pages with IE==

Here's another strange one... ever since the block I mentioned above was listed, I've been unable to make any new pages with IE. Every time I try, I get "HTTP Error: Resource is not found". I can still create pages OK with Safari and Mozilla, but I don't always have access to them. Editing existing pages with IE seems to be fine. It's got me stumped - anyone got any idea what's going on? (I haven't changed my preferences at all, so it's unlikely to be anything to do with that). [[User:Grutness|Grutness]]...<font color=green><small>''[[User_talk:Grutness|wha?''</small></font>]] 14:22, 13 October 2005 (UTC)

===Albums===

: Interesting - sounds like it may be related to the recent change to make non-existent pages correctly return 404 Not Found. When exactly do you get this message (steps to reproduce)? And do you know if you're using a proxy server? [[User:Tom-|Tom-]] 15:31, 13 October 2005 (UTC)

::Actually, my bot has been getting the same error. If I create the new category, it runs fine, but if I dont' I get the 404 error. I thought it had to do with using this link ''en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=NON-existant-article&action=edit'' instead of ''en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title='', but I got the same error with both. This is only when trying to create a new file. <font color=#000000>[[Special:Contributions/Who|&infin;]]</font>[[User:Who|Who]][[User talk:Who|<font color=#FF0033>?</font><font color=#FF00FF>&iquest;</font><font color=#0033FF>?</font>]] 15:38, 13 October 2005 (UTC)

:You use Macs, don’t you? There is special processing for Mac IE now, see [[bugzilla:2676]]. [[User:Susvolans|Susvolans]] [[User talk:Susvolans|⇔]] 15:42, 13 October 2005 (UTC)

*2001: Willa Was Here

::Oh yea, no, no proxy server for me. Windows XP btw. The page works fine with Mozilla, but shows up different in IE. When my bot runs this command:

<pre>GET http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Category:Bosnian_football_managers&action=edit</pre>

:It gets this in return [[User:Who/Test2|response]]. I think the new changes send a 404 code with the page, IE sometimes will igonre the server side 404 page and use its own, Mozilla will use the server 404. Perl on the other hand just sees the 404 and dies. <font color=#000000>[[Special:Contributions/Who|&infin;]]</font>[[User:Who|Who]][[User talk:Who|<font color=#FF0033>?</font><font color=#FF00FF>&iquest;</font><font color=#0033FF>?</font>]] 15:50, 13 October 2005 (UTC)

===Singles===

:::I'm also having trouble creating new pages. Will try another browser and let you know the results. [[User:Paul Klenk|paul klenk]] [[User talk:Paul Klenk|^talk]] 22:48, 13 October 2005 (UTC)

:::Yeah, it's an IE thing. Just created a new page with Mozilla. [[User:Paul Klenk|paul klenk]] [[User talk:Paul Klenk|^talk]] 23:09, 13 October 2005 (UTC)

FWIW, I ''do'' use IE and Mac (IE5.2.1 and OS10.2.8), but creating new pages was no problem at all up until yesterday. As I said, it's fine if I try to create new pages with Safari or Mozilla, but not IE. I don't know if I'm using a proxy server (sorry), but the step in the process is identical to that mentioned above. If, say, I tried to load either <nowiki>[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mippity-moppity-moo] or [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Mippity-moppity-moo&action=edit] </nowiki> it would try to load but would be unable to, coming up with the message as mentioned above. [[User:Grutness|Grutness]]...<font color=green><small>''[[User_talk:Grutness|wha?''</small></font>]] 23:32, 13 October 2005 (UTC)

*2001: I Wanna Be Bad (feat. Royce Da 5'9)

I have the same problem. When I click on a red link, I get a 404 error instead of an edit page. And I'm on Windows Me. [[User:Zoe]]|[[User talk:Zoe|^(talk)]] 03:11, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

*2001: Did Ya Understand That

:Yep, it works fine with Firefox, but I've been having problems with Firefox lately and hate to use it. BTW, with IE I also get the 404 error when I try to "delete" a page that somebody else has already deleted. [[User:172.184.238.193|172.184.238.193]] 03:16, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

*2001: Santa Baby (Gimme, Gimme, Gimme)

::Whoops, that was me. [[User:Zoe]]|[[User talk:Zoe|^(talk)]] 03:26, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

*2003: A Toast To Men (feat. Lady May)

===Soundtracks/Others===

::Windows ME? Egads! Which version of IE? '''''<font color="green">[[Wikipedia:Esperanza|a]]</font>'''''<font color="green">[[User:Android79|ndroid]]</font><font color="purple">[[User talk:Android79|79]]</font> 03:28, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

::6.0.2800.1106. I can't afford to upgrade my operating system. :( [[User:Zoe]]|[[User talk:Zoe|^(talk)]] 03:51, 15 October 2005 (UTC)

*1999: Pokémon: The First Movie [Soundtrack]

Our article on the [[404 error]] says IE will ignore a 404 if it's less than 512 bytes. A quick look at the [[User:Who/Test2|sample]] [[User:Who|Who]]'s linked to above shows it's ''almost 25 kilobytes'', so it shouldn't be a problem. We really need to do something to reduce the bloat. --[[User:CesarB|cesarb]] 03:47, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

*2001: Pantene Pro Voice Vol 1

:A quick look shows ''more than 10 kilobytes'' are used by the <nowiki><charinsert></nowiki> bits on [[MediaWiki:Copyrightwarning]]. --[[User:CesarB|cesarb]] 03:54, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

*2001: Spyder Games [Soundtrack]

*2001: Totally Hits 2001

*2001: MTV: TRL Christams

*2002: Park Ji Yoon - Man

*2002: MTV-The Best Of Trl Pop

*2002: Undercover Brother [Soundtrack]

*2003: What A Girl Wants [Soundtrack]

*2003: Dickie Roberts: Former Child Star [Soundtrack]

*2004: Gay.com: Winter 2004 Hits

==Filmography==

Works fine for me in IE 5.2.3, Mac OS X 10.4.2. --[[User:Brion VIBBER|Brion]] 22:00, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

:strange - still no go in IE5.2.1/OS10.2.8. [[User:Grutness|Grutness]]...<font color=green><small>''[[User_talk:Grutness|wha?''</small></font>]] 01:12, 15 October 2005 (UTC)

===Music Videos===

Still happening for me. [[User:Zoe]]|[[User talk:Zoe|^(talk)]] 03:53, 15 October 2005 (UTC)

:Zoe, I had this problem before, but have since been able to create new pages. Now I just tried it again, and was unable to. [[User:Paul Klenk|paul klenk]] [[User talk:Paul Klenk|^talk]] 05:13, 15 October 2005 (UTC)

*2001 I Wanna Be Bad

I've switched back to Firefox in order to access Wikipedia, though I hope it isn't going to hang my computer up like it has been doing. But this is unacceptable for people who have no choice but to use IE, the largest browser in the world. [[User:Zoe]]|[[User talk:Zoe|^(talk)]] 03:47, 16 October 2005 (UTC)

*2001 Did Ya Understand That

*2001 Santa Baby (Gimme, Gimme, Gimme)

*2002 Uncle Kracker's: In A Little While -"Girlfriend"

*2003 A Toast To Men

===TV===

:I cannot find any report on bugzilla about this problem. If it is still happening, someone should file a bug report there. --[[User:CesarB|cesarb]] 23:14, 16 October 2005 (UTC)

::Okay. (Embarrassed silence) So... erm... how do you do that? [[User:Grutness|Grutness]]...<font color=green><small>''[[User_talk:Grutness|wha?''</small></font>]] 00:17, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

:::http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/, you have to register with your email (which is visible to anyone, unlike here), chose "Enter Bug", "MediaWiki", and enter the details. I'd do it (I already have an account there), if not for the fact that I do not have a computer with MSIE, and so the bug report would end up like "someone said somewhere MSIE has some problem with something related to 404s on the edit pages". --[[User:CesarB|cesarb]] 00:29, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

::::Did you already report it? It's not necessarily an IE issue, as perl's get function is now receiving the 404, where as it didn't before. I have a temporary workaround, but think they must have changed something in the response headers for this to happen. I don't think it has to do with a Microsoft update because it effected people with Macs too. <font color=#9999ff>[[Special:Contributions/Who|&laquo;&raquo;]]</font>[[User:Who|Who]][[User talk:Who|<font color=#00Ff00>?</font><font color=#FF00FF>&iquest;</font><font color=#0033FF>?</font>]]^{<font color=#cc6600>[[m:User:Who|meta]]</font>} 10:07, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

*2001 Pantene Pro-Voice Featuring Jewel - Herself

:I found this report [[bugzilla:3161]], it deals with the Special:Export function, but it discusses 404 header on the GET function but not with post. I am not sure this is the same issue or not. <font color=#9999ff>[[Special:Contributions/Who|&laquo;&raquo;]]</font>[[User:Who|Who]][[User talk:Who|<font color=#00Ff00>?</font><font color=#FF00FF>&iquest;</font><font color=#0033FF>?</font>]]^{<font color=#cc6600>[[m:User:Who|meta]]</font>} 10:15, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

*2001 The Mind of the Married Man - Herself

Now submitted as [[bugzilla:3730]]

*2002 Six Flags Commercial - Herself

*2002 Rasing Dad - Edie "Bully"

*2002 I Bet You Will - Herself

*2002 The Miss Teen USA Pageant - Co-host

*2003 Morning After - Herself

*2004 VH1's 100 Most Outrageous Celebrity Moments - Herself "commentator"

*2004 VH1's My Coolest Years: Bad Girls - Herself "featured"

*2005 VH1's 100 Greatest Kids Stars - Herself "commentator"

*2005 WB Morning Show - Herself "featured"

*2005 The Ultimate Fighter - Host

*2005 My Fair Brady: Episode 3 - Herself "model"

*2005 The Fabulous Life Of: Las Vegas - Herself "featured"

*2005 ESPN Hollywood: Lingerie Bowl - Herself "featured"

*2005 Last Call With Carson Daly: Lingerie Bowl Event - Herself "featured"

==References==

This is still happening. This needs to be fixed '''''now'''''. Not only does it make it impossible to warn vandals before I block them, I can't create new AfD entries, I can't see the contributions of users whose edits I see on Recent Changes, and it's going to drive away new users who will almost surely be using IE. 22:52, 23 October 2005 (UTC)

===Biography===

:Since Tom hasn't made any further response on this I've gone ahead and reverted the change for now. Please let me know if it's all working properly now. --[[User:Brion VIBBER|Brion]] 02:48, 24 October 2005 (UTC)

::Now works fine using PERL using GET, described above. Thanks. <font color=#9999ff>[[Special:Contributions/Who|&laquo;&raquo;]]</font>[[User:Who|Who]][[User talk:Who|<font color=#00Ff00>?</font><font color=#FF00FF>&iquest;</font><font color=#0033FF>?</font>]]^{<font color=#cc6600>[[m:User:Who|meta]]</font>} 03:46, 24 October 2005 (UTC)

:::Thank you! I can now make new pages in IE again! Whee! [[User:Grutness|Grutness]]...<font color=green><small>''[[User_talk:Grutness|wha?''</small></font>]] 11:11, 24 October 2005 (UTC)

::::Me, too! Huzzah! [[User:Zoe]]|[[User talk:Zoe|^(talk)]] 02:29, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

*http://www.mtv.com/bands/az/ford_willa/bio.jhtml

==Disabling the new skip to navigation and skip to search links?==

*http://www.spiketv.com/shows/series/ultimatefighter/

Is there any way to disable the new links at the top of the page that take you directly to the search and navigation sections? I don't need them because I can already use keyboard shortcuts to access the sections, and the links are a distraction for me. Also, was there a discussion page for this change, and if so, where was it? - [[user:pianoman87|Graham/pianoman87]] [[user talk:pianoman87|talk]] 04:21, 16 October 2005 (UTC)

*http://www.lingeriebowl.com/

*http://www.scopemag.com/2005/06/30/pussycats.html

===Albums===

:They are hidden in the CSS, and are designed for text-mode and voice browsers. If you're seeing them unexpectedly, can you provide details of your browser configuration and preferences? --[[User:Brion VIBBER|Brion]] 04:25, 16 October 2005 (UTC)

*http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-form/103-3054812-9291015

::I am using a screen reader to navigate wikipedia, so I guess it means I should be expecting them. I'm using internet explorer 6 with windows xp Service Pack 2 and [[jaws for windows]]. - [[user:pianoman87|Graham/pianoman87]] [[user talk:pianoman87|talk]] 04:39, 16 October 2005 (UTC)

::I'm also using the monobook skin. I only started seeing them today. - [[user:pianoman87|Graham/pianoman87]] [[user talk:pianoman87|talk]] 04:41, 16 October 2005 (UTC)

===Singles===

:See [[User talk:Tom-#Jump links]]. --[[User:Brion VIBBER|Brion]] 01:30, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

*http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-form/103-3054812-9291015

: Hi there, I'm now back after a week away in sunny [[Edinburgh]], going to look into this in the next few days. May well make an option to disable these, but they really need to be enabled by default. [[User:Tom-|Tom-]] 15:58, 21 October 2005 (UTC)

::It would be best if they were enabled by default, for novice users of accessibility products. As I can use shortcut keys to accomplish the same function, they are not needed. How is it determined whether or not I am using a screen access program? [[user:pianoman87|Graham/pianoman87]] [[user talk:pianoman87|talk]] 11:45, 22 October 2005 (UTC)

===Soundtracks/Others===

: These can now be disabled with a new preference: Enable "jump to" accessibility links. [[User:Tom-|Tom-]] 00:42, 28 October 2005 (UTC)

*http://us.yesasia.com/gb/PrdDept.aspx/pid-1001822521/aid-561/section-music/code-k/version-all

== "Save page" showing a preview instead ==

===Music Videos===

Lately, I've been having a recurrent problem with page editing. I'll make the changes I want, then click on "Save page", but instead of the changes being recorded I get a preview, like I would if I had clicked on "Show preview" instead. Sometimes this will happen four or five times before I can get the changes to register. Is this a known problem, or something on my end? —[[User:Josiah Rowe|Josiah Rowe]] 17:21, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

*http://www.mtv.com/bands/az/ford_willa/audvid.jhtml

:You're not the only one; I get this a lot, and others have said the same thing. Don't know what is causing it, but if you keep trying eventually the page will save. [[User:Antandrus|Antandrus ]] [[User_talk:Antandrus|(talk)]] 17:23, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

*http://www.mtv.com/bands/az/uncle_kracker/audvid.jhtml

===TV===

::Still doing it -- [[User:SGBailey|SGBailey]] 15:34, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

*http://www.vh1.com/artists/az/ford_willa/artist.jhtml

:::It happens when the servers are slow. I'll venture an educated guess based on my understanding of how this whole thing works, but without having looked at the sources and the configuration: when you click "save", your request goes to a front-end server handling HTTP requests. It sees that you want to save and contacts a database server to store the new text. If the database servers are too overloaded and can't fulfill that store request, the front end server gets a time-out. It knows it couldn't save the text and does the next best thing: it treats it like a preview. (A preview is essentially just a save without storing the changes in the database.) There you are. Maybe someone truly knowledgeable will pipe up now and correct all the errors in this description... [[User:Lupo|Lupo]] 18:55, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

*http://www.spiketv.com/shows/series/ultimatefighter/

*http://www.lingeriebowl.com/

[[Category:1981 births|Ford, Willa]]

::::Allright, I ''have'' now taken a look at the sources, and it seems my guess was ''not'' correct. That's what happens when you speculate out into the blue... It's got nothing to do with timeouts from the database. Instead, what happens is the following: when you log in, the servers create a so-called "session": you get assigned some identification number (stored in a [[HTTP cookie|cookie]] in your browser and given back to the Wikipedia servers with each request you make). On the server side, the Wikipedia servers use this ID to associate with it certain data that should persist across several requests: stuff that should remain while you're logged on, i.e for the duration of your log-in [[session (computer science)|session]]. One such data item associated with your "session" is a random string of 32 [[hexadecimal]] digits: a so-called "token". This token is included in every "edit" screen and sent back to Wikipedia when you click "save". (It's also sent back when you click one of the other buttons, but that's besides the point here. The [http://mail.wikipedia.org/pipermail/wikien-l/2005-October/031749.html purpose of this token is explained on the mailing list].) If the token sent back to Wikipedia doesn't match the token the servers have stored with your session, the software refuses to save and handles the request as a preview. For some reason, the servers seem to temporarily "forget" what token they had assigned to your session, and thus get a mismatch, and you get a preview instead of a save. ''Why'' the servers have this problem is unknown. However, I stand by my claim that it primarily happens when the servers are (over-)loaded or slow. I've never had it happen when Wikipedia was running smooth and fast. And retrying usually succeeds eventually. [[User:Lupo|Lupo]] 13:09, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

[[Category:Solo artist|Ford, Willa]]

[[Category:Pop music|Ford, Willa]]

[[Category:Pop singers|Ford, Willa]]

[[Category:Female singers|Ford, Willa]]

[[Category:American pop singers|Ford, Willa]]

[[Category:American songwriters|Ford, Willa]]

[[Category:People from Florida|Ford, Willa]]

[[de:Willa Ford]]

:::And yes, it's a known problem, and yes, retrying will eventually succeed. [[User:Lupo|Lupo]] 18:55, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

[[no:Willa Ford]]

[[sv:Willa Ford]]

::::Apparently now it says "We could not process your edit due to a loss of session data." I've been seeing that a lot in the past few days. [[User:Pfalstad|Pfalstad]] 19:20, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

== The Mystery of the Disappearing Watched Page==

I've noticed that some of the pages in my watchlist occasionaly get removed. In particular, I have to add [[Wikipedia:Administrator intervention against vandalism]] to my watchlist on an almost weekly basis. Has anyone else noticed this? - [[User:Trevor macinnis|Trevor MacInnis]] <small>([[User talk:Trevor macinnis|Talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Trevor macinnis|Contribs)</small>]] 00:34, 21 October 2005 (UTC)

:I've had this same problem with a couple of the pages on my watchlist. [[Wikipedia:Templates for deletion]] seems to be the most often one to disappear from my watchlist. [[User:BlankVerse|<font color=green>''Blank''</font><font color= #F88017>''Verse''</font>]]<font color=#2554C7> </font>[[User talk:BlankVerse|<font color=#F660AB>&empty;</font>]] 02:30, 24 October 2005 (UTC)

::I wonder if it's at all related to [[Wikipedia:Village pump (miscellaneous)#Watchlist weirdness]]... &mdash;[[User:Cryptic|Cryptic]] [[User talk:Cryptic|(talk)]] 07:09, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

== Image display problem??? ==

Can anyone figure out why the first image at [[Great Lakes Storm of 1913]] won't display? It does exist, if you go directly to the image page, but it won't show up in the article, just as a red link. It also doesn't show up at [[Gallery of 1913 Great Lakes storm images/Other images]]. &mdash; <small>[[User:Brian0918|<b><font color=black>BRIAN</font></b>]][[User_talk:Brian0918|<font color=gray>0918</font>]] &bull; 2005-10-21 03:15</small>

:The problem is that it's a PNG which is over the [http://mail.wikipedia.org/pipermail/wikitech-l/2005-October/032030.html 12.5 megapixel limit]. Please reupload it in a format that won't kill the servers, e.g. a JPEG or small PNG. -- [[User:Tim Starling|Tim Starling]]

::Way to break our shit. --[[User:SPUI|SPUI]] ([[User talk:SPUI|talk]]) 21:42, 24 October 2005 (UTC)

:::Same to you. You crash the site, I'll break your shit, fair deal? -- [[User:Tim Starling|Tim Starling]] 18:31, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

== Bad Section Edits ==

A few minutes ago, I made two section edits that went awry and erased everything but the edited section. It may have happened to others; I'm not sure. The diffs I could find, all showing the trademark "section edit" summary, are http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Superm401/Sandbox&diff=26228979&oldid=26228910 and http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:Reference_desk&diff=26228252&oldid=26228181

--[[User:Superm401|Superm401]] | [[User_talk:Superm401|Talk]] 01:59, 23 October 2005 (UTC)

:Can you describe the editing and submission process for these edits? On both, you had made the previous edit shortly before. Was there simultaneous editing going on? Back/forth clicking? etc --[[User:Brion VIBBER|Brion]] 02:22, 23 October 2005 (UTC)

:I didn't ever have either open for editing in more than one tab(or window). I also didn't use the back button in these cases. First, I edited the RD talk and posted a section(I think manually, not with the new section button[I don't think it matters, but...). Pretty quickly I realized I had a typo, but I am confident that it was after the page had fully loaded. I clicked the section edit button and added the "?". I think I previewed it, just because I hate to have to make two (or more) minor edits after a meaningful one. It previewed fine; the rest of the page wasn't there, but that's normal for section edits. I then saved, and everything vanished but the section. I then modified my sandbox page to have a few sections. I saved, and I'm pretty sure waited for it to load completely(though I'm slightly less sure about this one), clicked the edit section button again, made a nonsense edit, then saved. I was very careful to pay attention to what I was doing, so I know I didn't click preview(why would I). However, it forced me to preview 3 times, the most I've ever had. Finally, it saved and erased the rest of the page, as expected. In both cases I definitely used the edit section button. I'm sure some of that detail is extraneous, but I hope I've clarified. [[User:Superm401|Superm401]] | [[User_talk:Superm401|Talk]] 03:34, 23 October 2005 (UTC)

::Numerous times on a very old, slow laptop I have found that if I don't wait for the ''entire'' page to render in Firefox (any version) then the submit button will act like a preview button. It's ''very'' annoying. - [[User:Ta bu shi da yu|Ta bu shi da yu]] 10:55, 23 October 2005 (UTC)

:It also happens on newer desktops. I've been getting this every now and again - especially accompanying the "preview" glitch mentioned a bit further up this page. If I'm editing one section of a long page and press save and it comes back with preview, I've learnt to copy what I've written to clipboard, reload the article and re-edit the section - otherwise I'm liable to lose the rest of the page. This happens in IE, in Safari, and in Mozilla. [[User:Grutness|Grutness]]...<font color=green><small>''[[User_talk:Grutness|wha?''</small></font>]] 22:47, 24 October 2005 (UTC)

== Whitespace issue ==

[[Image:Toomuchwhitespace.PNG|thumb|Too much whitespace]] Far too much whitespace! what is going on? - [[User:Ta bu shi da yu|Ta bu shi da yu]] 08:20, 23 October 2005 (UTC)

<br clear="all" />

:Maybe somebody inserted a <nowiki><br clear="all" /></nowiki> tag? Just for testing, I inserted that tag between your post and mine. [[User:Thue|Thue]] | [[User talk:Thue|talk]] 12:25, 23 October 2005 (UTC)

::I just came across this on another article ([[Hugo Chávez]]). The problem is the two images, one directly above each other, each "connected" to a different paragraph. The formatting, as it's given, requires that each of their tops be aligned with their respective paragraphs, and the only way for it to manage that is to add a bunch of whitespace and shift the lower image's paragraph downwards... Anyway, to avoid it, you can either move/remove/resize one of the images, or move one of them over to the other side. Or add more text, of course. Also note that one reason why this problem isn't usually caught is because you won't see it if you just use section editing on one of the two paragraphs involved; whoever added the image that "broke" it didn't notice because of that. --[[User:Aquillion|Aquillion]] 07:24, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

:I have seen the same problem on a lot of pages. They look fine in Firefox, but "spaced out" in MSIE. I have solved the problem, especially if the text to images ratio is low, by putting the images together at the top of the article rather than attaching them to paragraphs. Hard to explain, but if you look at the before and after results and look at the code you'll see what I mean. Sorry, the only page I've edited recently that I can remember had this problem deals with the vagina, so you have been warned:

::* [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Vagina&oldid=26440732 Before]

::* [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Vagina&oldid=26441944 After]

::* [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Vagina&diff=26441944&oldid=26440732 Diff]

:If you look at these pages in Firefox, they will be identical, but in MSIE 6 on Windows XP you will see that the "before" look is spaced out and the "after" looks fine.

:--[[User:Lapsus Linguae|Craig]] 10:21, 27 October 2005 (UTC)

== Block link in the toolbox ==

There's now a block link in the toolbox for administrators when visiting user and user talk pages. —{{User:Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason/Sig}} 09:10, 24 October 2005 (UTC)

: It doesn't appear to work in the Classic skin, however. -- [[User:Finlay McWalter|Finlay McWalter]] | [[User talk:Finlay McWalter | Talk]] 18:53, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

== Commons image problems ==

See [[User:SPUI/wtf]]. [[:Image:Amtrak schematic.png]] exists on commons, and I can embed it full-size or in a frame, or even thumbed as part of the text. But thumbing it in a frame gives a red link. --[[User:SPUI|SPUI]] ([[User talk:SPUI|talk]]) 09:23, 24 October 2005 (UTC)

*See [[Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)#Image display problem???|above]], where I had the same problem. They no longer thumbnail images larger than 3500x3500. For you, your best bet is to make a smaller version and add a link to the larger version on its Image: page. &mdash; <small>[[User:Brian0918|<b><font color=black>BRIAN</font></b>]][[User_talk:Brian0918|<font color=gray>0918</font>]] &bull; 2005-10-24 11:50</small>

**Argh, what bullshit. A smaller version won't show everything. --[[User:SPUI|SPUI]] ([[User talk:SPUI|talk]]) 21:40, 24 October 2005 (UTC)

***In this case it may be a good idea to adopt the scheme that was used before thumbnailing was implemented. Create a super-simplified fat-line version with no text (maybe with a simple US coastline - I can give you a vector of that if you need one) but the same basic scheme (colors etc.) as your mega-detailed version. Put that in an image-frame on the target page, and link to the full version from both the frame caption and the small image's imagepage. Even if the thumbnail code ''did'' work on your Amtrak map, the thumbnail would inevitably look spindly and blocky and generally nasty. It would be ''particularly'' cool if [[SVG]]s had adaptive [[Level of Detail (Programming)|level of detail]], but ([http://www.svgopen.org/2004/papers/AdaptiveLoD/ right now]) one has to do that stuff manually. -- [[User:Finlay McWalter|Finlay McWalter]] | [[User talk:Finlay McWalter | Talk]] 18:48, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

* I made a smaller version of [[commons:Image:Tectonic plates.png]], so the thumbnail in [[Plate tectonics]] would work. It got reverted. Maybe that means more poorly-announced changes are about to take place. ([[User:SEWilco|SEWilco]] 20:42, 26 October 2005 (UTC))

** Further activity no longer implies any changes. ([[User:SEWilco|SEWilco]] 14:49, 28 October 2005 (UTC))

== reverting an image ==

A new user uploaded a new pic replacing the image "Resurrection.jpg". How do I revert the image? (I already told the new user about this and asked him to upload his image under a different name.) Thanks - [[User:Tempshill|Tempshill]] 18:27, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

:Click on the (rev) link next to the revision you want to revert to. ~~ '''[[User:Nickptar|N]]''' ([[User talk:Nickptar|t]]/[[Special:Contributions/Nickptar|c]]) 18:33, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

::Thanks. [[User:Tempshill|Tempshill]] 23:35, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

== what if the page i want to create is already created, but the already created page feautres a different definition/information? ==

i'm very sorry if this is mentioned somewhere else on the site, but i can't find it.

please help.

: Say you wanted to make an article about "Joe Taylor", a baseball player. But there was already an article at "Joe Taylor", for a politician. Then you'd create "Joe Taylor (baseball player)" instead, and you'd put a little note on the top of both Joe Taylor pages pointing to the other, saying "For the baseball player, see Joe Taylor (baseball player)". More details at [[Wikipedia:Disambiguation]]. -- [[User:Finlay McWalter|Finlay McWalter]] | [[User talk:Finlay McWalter | Talk]] 23:59, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

::(the following post was written at the same time as the one above e.g. i got an edit conflict)

::see [[wikipedia:disambiguation]] for details but you basically have 3 choices depending on the relative merits of the two topics.

::add an inline disambig link to the existing article pointing at your new one.

::move the existing article and put an inline disambig link at the top of your new one (be VERY carefull with this choice though you are likely to ignite flamewars but sometimes it is the write option)

::move the existing article and put a disambiguation page in its place. Try not to do that if there are only ever likely to be two articles on that disabiguation page though that just means everyone has to navigate to a second page rather than a portion of them (and hopefully that portion should be less than half if you choose the primary topic correctly)

::remember when moving articles always do so by using the proper page move feature. If you can't do it yourself go through requested moves or ask an admin directly. [[User:Plugwash|Plugwash]] 00:05, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

== Article not appearing in category ==

Article [[Ça Va]] has category [[:Category:Avant-progressive rock albums]], yet it does not appear in [[:Category:Avant-progressive rock albums]]. What gives? --[[User:Bruce1ee|Bruce1ee]] 06:04, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

:It showed up after I null-edited the article. I've noticed that sometimes "failed" edits go through on the article, but related things like category listings, whatlinkshere lists, and image links don't get updated. &mdash;[[User:Cryptic|Cryptic]] [[User talk:Cryptic|(talk)]] 06:37, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

::Thanks for that. The last edit I did on the article (which was to add the cat) did give an error and it logged me out - hence the anon edit. BTW how do you do a "null edit"? --[[User:Bruce1ee|Bruce1ee]] 06:51, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

:::Edit the article and hit "save" without changing anything. &mdash;[[User:Cryptic|Cryptic]] [[User talk:Cryptic|(talk)]] 07:08, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

== Internal Links ==

I'm curious, I made an article WITH internal links but without any categorization (I'm new at this), and then somehow the logger didn't record any of them and then the admin reinstated some (not all) of them, along with the categorization. I'm very curious as to why the logger would remove them? Is it because I didn't put a categorization? I'm just confused because I wouldn't want to go through all of it and put internal links all over again in another instance. And my friend doesn't believe me when I tell him I did indeed put them in.

*What is the name of the article? [[User:Joy Stovall|Joyous ]] [[User_talk:Joy Stovall|(talk)]] 01:37, 27 October 2005 (UTC)

* The reference to "the logger didn't record any of them and then the admin reinstated" suggests to me that perhaps "the logger" may be "my watchlist". As the watchlist only shows the most recent change, the person only saw someone else's edit which added categorization. The editor may be unaware of the ability to go to an Article and using the History feature to see all edits. ([[User:SEWilco|SEWilco]] 14:54, 27 October 2005 (UTC))

== Non Isolated High Voltage DC Testing ==

Looking for procedures, experiences and practices on how to complete a

non-isolated 24kv DC test placing a engineer/human at equal potential to the 24kv DC test object without personal protective equipment (PPE) utilized.

Please reply with any technical references, practices, references, etc.

J. Harvey

<email removed>

:This question should be asked on the [[Wikipedia:reference desk|reference desk]]. --[[User:CesarB|cesarb]] 15:14, 29 October 2005 (UTC)

== Missing entries in Watchlist ==

No matter how much I fiddle with my watchlist, some edits are missing. If I look at my contributions, all edits they appear, and the page history, they're all there too, but not in the watchlist. In fact, it seems like the most recent edit of a page is listed, but earlier edits aren't. If I edit a page, the listing gets updated to that edit, and any previous ones disappear.

I saw an old bug on [http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2647 bugzilla] that was fixed, so its not that. I try Ctrl+F5, restart FireFox, restart PC to no avail. Also happens in IE. --[[User:Konrad West|K.]] <small>AKA</small> [http://www.konradwest.com Konrad West] <small>'''[[User_talk:Konrad West|TALK]]'''</small> 03:34, 27 October 2005 (UTC)

:That's not an error, that's normal! By design, the watchlist shows only the most recent edit. It's a short overview of what's been changed, not a complete list of all changes. --[[User:Brion VIBBER|Brion]] 06:13, 27 October 2005 (UTC)

::Bizarre. I guess I never noticed that that's how it works. Anyway, I wish it would show all the edits; then I can monitor pages just with the diffs from the watchlist. Oh well! --[[User:Konrad West|K.]] <small>AKA</small> [http://www.konradwest.com Konrad West] <small>'''[[User_talk:Konrad West|TALK]]'''</small> 06:29, 27 October 2005 (UTC)

== HTTP 500 errors ==

I keep getting "HTTP 500 - Internal server error", over and over again, whether I want to view a page, edit it, delete it, whatever. I have to keep trying five or six times before the task finally takes.

Also, if I use my Back arrow to go back to the Recent changes page, instead of taking me to the most recent version of the page, it takes me to the first version of the page I saw tonight. [[User:Zoe]]|[[User talk:Zoe|^(talk)]] 03:49, 27 October 2005 (UTC)

:I'm not experiencing any such problem, is it over? --[[User:Brion VIBBER|Brion]] 06:16, 27 October 2005 (UTC)

::I've been getting this a lot for the last couple days. "Refresh" usually works though. What is interesting to me is that it is a new error; I'd never seen it until a couple days ago. (Occasionally I get the "sorry we have a problem" error on a refresh of an HTTP 500 error page.) [[User:Antandrus|Antandrus ]] [[User_talk:Antandrus|(talk)]] 15:26, 27 October 2005 (UTC)

:This doesn't seem to be happening tonight. [[User:Zoe]]|[[User talk:Zoe|^(talk)]] 03:27, 28 October 2005 (UTC)

== Back and Forwards Button Behaviour with Articles with Same Name and Different Capitalisation ==

I ran into an interesting thing when looking at two articles: [[ETA]] and [[Eta]]. I have duplicated the same problem in both Firefox and MSIE on Windows.

To see this problem for yourself you need to have visited some other page (anywhere on the Web) before going to one or other of the above pages. Then load one or other of these pages. If you load [[ETA]] first you'll see that there is a disambiguation link at the top to [[Eta]]; if you load [[Eta]] first, the first link in the second section is to [[ETA]]. Click through to the "eta" page that you did not load. Now click your back button. You will go back two pages; the back button will skip the intervening page. Then click the forwards button; with Firefox you will go to the first "eta" page you loaded, but the forwards button will then be disabled, not allowing you to go forward to the next "eta" page; with MSIE you will go to the second "eta" page you loaded, skipping the intervening "eta" page.

Actually, here's an even more straightforward demonstration. Open a new browser window (Firefox or MSIE), type in the address for one of the "eta" pages, then click on the link to the other "eta" page. Look at your back button; it is still disabled, so you can't go back to the first "eta" page you loaded.

I'm not going to run an exhaustive survey of all the possible permutations and results, as I think I've made my point. It's also interesting that it happens in the latest versions of both Firefox and MSIE, so perhaps (since Windows is not a case-sensitive operating system) it's a Windows problem. Anyone out there running a desktop Linux system who can duplicate the problem?

'''Suggested solution:''' Perhaps the powers that be (forgive me; I'm new here) should restrict creating articles that have the same name, but are capitalised differently. Any thoughts, or am I missing something or the 50 billionth person to bring this up? :) I did look around but didn't see anything similar.

--[[User:Lapsus Linguae|Craig]] 11:03, 27 October 2005 (UTC)

:Another example: from any Wiki page (say [[Main Page]]), go to [[CAT]], then from CAT go to [[Cat]] (another article). Now hitting the "Back" button takes you back to the Main Page and not CAT. This is in IE6 on WinXP. --[[User:Bruce1ee|Bruce1ee]] 11:20, 27 October 2005 (UTC)

::These are simply bugs in IE and Firefox (not exhibited by Safari on Max OS X, BTW). The hostname portion of a URL is case insensitive (because DNS is case insensitive), but the rest is case sensitive. Instituting a naming restriction in Wikipedia to cater to software bugs strikes me as completely unnecessary. -- [[user:Rick Block|Rick Block]] <small>([[user talk:Rick Block|talk]])</small> 14:53, 27 October 2005 (UTC)

:::Well, I agree with you 100% from a technological point of view and am aware that the host name is case-insensitive by definition. From a practicality and usability point of view I disagree with respect to the URI; what is right in a perfect world isn't necessarily right in the real world. In addition to that, I think that having articles with identical names but with different capitalisation (ETA/Eta, CAT/Cat, and probably lots more) is just confusing, especially to the masses who have forgotten where their "Shift" key is, so I would think that would tip the balance in favour of avoiding the issue. That said, if there are thousands of such articles out there then perhaps it's more work than it's worth, but I do think it's worth the consideration of whoever would actually make such technical and policy decisions. --[[User:Lapsus Linguae|Craig]] 15:12, 27 October 2005 (UTC)

::::Sorry if my answer sounded overly flippant. I meant in this case, not in general, I don't see a reason to change Wikipedia for these specific bugs. I'm not sure how many sets of articles there are with names that differ only in capitalization, but I suspect it's at least thousands. In all of these cases I think it's important to include a link to articles with titles in other capitalizations to address the confusion factor. With the 1.5 version of the software, article titles can now even include non-ASCII characters - I strongly suspect moving to case insensitive from where we are would be very unpopular (there's even a subset of users unhappy that the first character of an article title is always converted to upper case). And, if you're wondering, technical decisions are generally made by the volunteer developers who work on the project (anyone who can help is more than welcome to join the effort) and policy decisions are generally made by community consensus. If you feel strongly enough about this to pursue it in either the technical or policy arenas, please do so. I'm a user, just like you (perhaps I've been around longer) - ultimately your opinion counts just as much as mine. -- [[user:Rick Block|Rick Block]] <small>([[user talk:Rick Block|talk]])</small> 00:41, 28 October 2005 (UTC)

:::::No worries about the almost-flippant reply. :)

:::::It's not a life-threatening issue (the browser bug, that is) and I will sleep well tonight... assuming I actually go to bed for a change. (Thankfully the weekend is coming and I'll get away from the computer for a bit.) By the lack of response it seems I'm the only one (or one of two) who was rather alarmed by the discovery -- more "Cool, I found a bug!" alarmed than "Oh my god!" alarmed, mind you -- because the structure of Wikipedia URLs is rather unique compared to most other Web sites, so it's not something you'd usually run into on other sites. But balancing usability, technical and administrative issues, based on what you say it makes the most sense give the most weight to the administrative issue of retroactively dealing with a whole lot of articles with the same name and different capitalisation.

:::::I will clarify though that I wasn't implying Wikipedia use a case-insensitive system; I've seen that issue addressed elsewhere. Although I didn't elaborate, my suggested solution (using "ETA" as an example) would have been to make both "ETA" and "Eta" a single disambiguation page and then require the "ETA" article on the Basque terrorist organisation to have a different title, either the full name (in [[Basque language|Basque]], [[Spanish language|Spanish]] or [[English language|English]], depending on existing guidelines) or something like "ETA (Basque organisation)".

:::::Finally, thanks for the reminder about the Wiki organisational structure vis-a-vis consensus decisions on technical and policy matters. You correctly noted that I am rather new, and one of the things I am still learning is how to participate effectively and where, besides the obvious task of editing and creating articles.

:::::--[[User:Lapsus Linguae|Craig]] 03:39, 28 October 2005 (UTC)

:::::I reported the bug a few days ago and someone said it should be fixed in the next release of Firefox (1.5). -- [[User:Kjkolb|Kjkolb]] 12:43, 29 October 2005 (UTC)

:::::: Great! Now can someone let [[Bill Gates|Bill]] know? :) --[[User:Lapsus Linguae|Craig]] ([[User talk:Lapsus Linguae|t]]|[[Special:Contributions/Lapsus Linguae|c]]) 13:57, 29 October 2005 (UTC)

:::::Works for me on Firefox 1.5 beta2, so the bug should already be fixed. --[[User:CesarB|cesarb]] 15:11, 29 October 2005 (UTC)

== Slow, sluggish and database problems ==

I've noticed that, over the last three days, Wikipedia has been rather slow, and the database is down 30% of the time [[User:Sceptre|Sceptre]] 18:03, 27 October 2005 (UTC)

:Well, hop on #wikimedia-tech on irc.freenode.net and give us a hand. I see from your user page that you're a PHP programmer. Why not help out with some optimisation work? -- [[User:Tim Starling|Tim Starling]] 19:15, 27 October 2005 (UTC)

::I figured out the problem, it was something with Greasemonkey, not with Wikpedia [[User:Sceptre|Sceptre]] 08:49, 28 October 2005 (UTC)

== I can't stay logged in ==

Sorry to re-open this question, but every so often I have difficulty staying logged in. When I go to IRC to check it out, I am informed that the problem is my side, even though when I am experiencing this it doesn't matter where I am logging on to Wikipedia from, it happens. It's just started happening again, I'm fed up with it, and I really don't want to go through the same "it's something wrong your side/no it's not" discussion all over again. What causes this and how can I make sure it stops happening? -- [[User:86.134.201.199|86.134.201.199]] 21:07, 27 October 2005 (UTC) ([[User:Francs2000|Francs2000]])

:I experienced the same problem recently. Although I can't tell just what the problem was, it seems the cookies get corrupted somehow (just a guess); the problem went away as soon as I deleted them. [[User:Ddawson|Ddawson]] 12:59, 28 October 2005 (UTC)

::This has been happening to me with extremely monotonous regularity over the past couple of days, and it's getting worse. It's now reaching the stage where I get logged out mid-edit (the edit session complains that it's "lost session information" when I save and invites me to re-try the save, which ''sometimes'' works). Quite how this is down to cookie corruption at my end I can't see, since a) it comes and goes (if my machine had a problem I wouldn't expect it to cure itself) and b) the '''only''' site where I see this is WP. [[User:Tonywalton|Tonywalton]] [[Image:Pentacle-circumscribed.png|15px]]&nbsp;|<small> [[User talk:Tonywalton|Talk]]</small> 17:27, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

:: Yep. I've had this happen so many times. I created an account so at least my articles would be traceable to me, but by the time I've finished writing it I've been logged out. Occasionally I'm lucky and it's just lost the session info and I have to re-submit it 5 times for it to take. In fact, I was just logged out while typing this!!! [[User:WauloK|WauloK]] 22:35, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

== would like to place a link ==

Dear Sir/Madam,

I am representing my client who owns a website on "coins and coin collecting". We would like to place a link in your website,please let us know how we go about it.

Thanks for sparing some time.

sukumar

:Sorry, that's not appropriate for Wikipedia. If you have an incredibly notable website that an unrelated person would feel inspired to write about, ''then'' an article would be appropriate. I know the article title is offensive, but see [[Wikipedia:Spam]]. Thanks - [[User:Tempshill|Tempshill]] 04:10, 28 October 2005 (UTC)

:If the site is quite comprehensive then adding a link to it under "External links" in [[coin collecting]] might be worthwhile. [[User:Violetriga|violet/riga]] [[User_talk:violetriga|(t)]] 10:35, 28 October 2005 (UTC)

== Remove one licensing choice from Upload page ==

Hi,

On the "Upload file" page, can we remove the "Images copyrighted by Wikimedia" choice from the "Licensing" popup menu? That choice tags the image with "CopyrightByWikimedia", which says:

:This image is copyrighted by the Wikimedia foundation. It is one of the official logos or designs used by the Wikimedia foundation or by one of its projects. Notwithstanding any other statement on this page this image has not been licensed under the GFDL. © & ™ All rights reserved, Wikimedia Foundation, Inc..

No ordinary user will ever use this tag, so it shouldn't be in the popup menu. Obviously the tag should exist, but anybody who will be using the tag will be familiar with using <nowiki>{{double brackets}}</nowiki>.

This came up when a user tagged [[:Image:Le Marche.JPG]] with this tag from the popup menu because she wished to donate the photo to Wikipedia, and thought "CopyrightByWikimedia" would be nice to use. Thanks - [[User:Tempshill|Tempshill]] 04:04, 28 October 2005 (UTC)

:Posted to [[Wikipedia:Bug reports]]. [[User:Tempshill|Tempshill]] 18:13, 30 October 2005 (UTC)

== Help fixing a link ==

For the [[WP:RD|Reference desk]], I'm trying to create a link that will help people ask their questions. To that end I've created a link, which is supposed to lead to an edit page with an special page at the top, to explain the rules.

The syntax is <nowiki>[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:Wikipedia:{{PAGENAME}}/science|action=edit&section=new&editintro=User_talk:Ec5618/Laboratory/Dog link]</nowiki> or variations thereof.

The odd thing is that [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Reference_desk/science&action=edit&section=new&editintro=Wikipedia:Reference_desk/How_to_ask Wikipedia:Reference_desk/science] does work (although it's useless as it points to a page named ''Wikipedia:Reference_desk/science'' (uncapped science). The correct link should point to [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Science&action=edit&section=new&editintro=Wikipedia:Reference_desk/How_to_ask Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Science], but that one doesn't seem to work. The template that should explain the rules does not appear (and neither does the standard template).

Does anyone have any idea what I'm missing? Is it a bug or am I misusing something? -- [[User:Ec5618|Ec5618]] 10:14, 28 October 2005 (UTC)

It seems to have something to do with the fact that the page already exists, in which case there is no need for the standard '''Wikipedia does not have an article with this exact name.'''-banner. Is there any way this can be enabled/bypassed? It would help to be able to do this on pages such as [[WP:RD]], [[WP:HD]] , [[WP:AFD]] and the like. -- [[User:Ec5618|Ec5618]] 10:22, 28 October 2005 (UTC)

:It's a great idea and could have many uses, but I think you've figured the problem yourself. Perhaps it's just a mediawiki tweak. [[User:Violetriga|violet/riga]] [[User_talk:violetriga|(t)]] 10:33, 28 October 2005 (UTC)

::Drat, I really wasn't looking to spearhear a campaign to change the Mediawiki software. How would I go about fixing this? Who do I see? - [[User:Ec5618|Ec5618]] 17:29, 29 October 2005 (UTC)

== No Google search of Commons ==

Google searching for "Rosa Parks" in [http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&safe=off&c2coff=1&q=%22rosa+parks%22+site%3Aen.wikimedia.org&btnG=Search en.wikimedia.org search] or [http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&safe=off&c2coff=1&q=%22rosa+parks%22+site%3Acommons.wikimedia.org&btnG=Search commons.wikipedia.org search] produces no results. A [http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&safe=off&c2coff=1&q=%22rosa+parks%22+site%3A.wikimedia.org&btnG=Search .wikipedia.org search] only produces 40 results, many from "Kate's Quickview". ([[User:SEWilco|SEWilco]] 15:19, 28 October 2005 (UTC))

:The English Wikipedia is at en.wikipedia.org (with a 'P' not an 'M': pedia, not media), Commons is at commons.wikimedia.org (with an 'M' not a 'P': media, not pedia). Adjust and re-search. - [[User:Mark|Mark]] 15:26, 28 October 2005 (UTC)

:: Oops. I had started with [http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&safe=off&c2coff=1&q=%22rosa+parks%22+site%3Acommons.wikimedia.org&btnG=Search commons.wikipedia.org search] (produces no results) and forgot to change domains for wikipedia.org. So "en" still works, while "commons" does not. ([[User:SEWilco|SEWilco]] 15:35, 28 October 2005 (UTC))

::: Were there any Rosa Parks images on commons when google last spidered it (sometime in the last month, probably)? Searching commons for [http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&c2coff=1&q=site%3Acommons.wikimedia.org+monument+valley%22&btnG=Search Monument Valley] works fine. -- [[User:Finlay McWalter|Finlay McWalter]] | [[User talk:Finlay McWalter | Talk]] 15:48, 28 October 2005 (UTC)

== Current SVG support? ==

What's the current state of SVG support in Wikipedia? The meta page [[m:SVG image support]] seems to be rather outdated. I've been trying to use SVGs for the first time (at [[polarizer]]), but the server-side renderer seems to have problems. Sometimes my images don't appear, and when they do render, the text (despite the glyphs apparently being properly embedded) doesn't use the correct font. My picture look ok off-line in the Adobe SVG renderer. I'd like to convert some of my diagrams (e.g.: [[:image:Abbe-diagram.png]]) to SVG but not if the text doesn't render correctly. Is this as good as it gets at the moment, or am I doing something wrong? --[[User:DrBob|Bob Mellish]] 16:57, 28 October 2005 (UTC)

:At the moment we're using a slightly out-of-date version of librsvg to render SVGs; we'll upgrade that soon the latest goodies which should fix some bugs. In the future we may move to Batik as a renderer, but this requires some more footwork (setting up a server of some sort to get decent performance, etc). --[[User:Brion VIBBER|Brion]] 21:06, 30 October 2005 (UTC)

:I should also add that our librsvg is patched to disable external image references; this will cause files with such references to fail to render. (Otherwise it will happily grab any file off the filesystem and try including it as an inline image; this could be a security risk.) --[[User:Brion VIBBER|Brion]] 21:08, 30 October 2005 (UTC)

== subst: problems ==

There are two issues I have with subst; it is not exactly equivalent to simple template transclusion.

First of all, it doesn't process &lt;noinclude&gt; and &lt;includeonly&gt;, which means some templates will behave differently if they are used as <nowiki>{{subst:template}}</nowiki> instead of <nowiki>{{template}}</nowiki>.

Second, parameters with default arguments remain in the substituted text. For example, in <nowiki> {{{2|Blah}}}</nowiki>, if the subst'ed template did not have a second parameter, it will insert <code><nowiki>{{{2|Blah}}}</nowiki></code> in the wikimarkup instead of <code>Blah</code>. This isn't a problem (currently), but it looks pretty silly. I can't seem to get in BugZilla at the moment, otherwise I'd have put this there. &mdash; [[User:Squell|squell]]\^{[[User talk:Squell|talk]]} 22:34, 29 October 2005 (UTC)

**Both issues are listed on BugZilla. [[User:Squell|squell]] 23:29, 29 October 2005 (UTC)

== editcountitis ==

I've noticed that the User edits counter doesnt work, which is a shame, because I want to see how much of a life I haven't got :) [[User:Sceptre|Sceptre]] 03:21, 30 October 2005 (UTC)

: My understanding is that it was intentionally disabled. (It was never a supported application, and it was up to {{user|Kate}} whether or not to provide it.) You can still figure out your edit count on your contributions page by hand! &mdash;&nbsp;[[User:mendel|mendel]]&nbsp;[[User_talk:Mendel|&#9742;]] 04:27, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

::It appears to be working now. -- [[User:DS1953|DS1953]] [[User talk:DS1953|^talk]] 23:00, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

no, it was never intentionally disabled (well not recently, anyway :). please stop spreading this rumour. kate.

== External Link Icon Problem? ==

I am using Opera 9 tp1 and it is displaying external link icons after internal links for all but the menu, tabs, and class .plainlinks. This didn't happen in 8.5 iirc. I can't find where this icon is put in (in the CSS) so I can't see why it's doing this. Please help me as this is getting really annoying. &mdash; [[User:Ilyanep|<span style="color:gray;">Il&gamma;&alpha;&eta;&epsilon;&rho;</span>]] [[User talk:Ilyanep|<span style="color: #333333;">(T&alpha;l&kappa;)</span>]] 03:53, 30 October 2005 (UTC)

:Fixed by adding something to [[User:Ilyanep/monobook.css]], thanks [[User:IceKarma]]. Perhaps adding it to the sitewide stylesheet would help? &mdash; [[User:Ilyanep|<span style="color:gray;">Il&gamma;&alpha;&eta;&epsilon;&rho;</span>]] [[User talk:Ilyanep|<span style="color: #333333;">(T&alpha;l&kappa;)</span>]] 04:31, 30 October 2005 (UTC)

==Using Contributions page to track Related changes==

It appears that currently, we can't click on "Related changes" on a contributions page. This would be a useful feature, especially for tracking the edits of anons. I'm trying to reply to an anon that uses a small range of IPs, but have no way of knowing what their current IP. They are only editing a small number of articles, so I could check the history of each article to find the new IP. It'd be much easier to just click Related Changes. &mdash; <small>[[User:Brian0918|<b><font color=black>BRIAN</font></b>]][[User_talk:Brian0918|<font color=gray>0918</font>]] &bull; 2005-10-30 13:51</small>

== Uploading .pdf files ==

No response on Policy in 5 days, so I'll try here:

I've been patrolling images the last few days and noticed a few instances of people uploading .pdf files. [[:Image:Turinys.pdf]] is an example from today. What is the intention of letting people do this? It won't show up as an image in our pages. (And, probably beside the point, it's not really a free format.) [[User:Tempshill|Tempshill]] 22:06, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

==SVG image not rendering==

Can anyone suggest a reason why [[:Image:UK_IT_and_NIC_2005-06.svg]] will not render correctly in Wikipedia? The file itself renders correctly in Firefox 1.5 (beta2), Opera 8.5, Adobe SVG viewer in Internet Explorer and Adobe Illustrator CS -- but not in Wikipedia. I would be grateful of any suggestions. --{{User:Throup/signature}} 17:34, 30 October 2005 (UTC)

:I've got it working now (at [[:Image:UK Tax.svg]]). The problem was that my text editor ([[TextPad]]) was saving a [[UTF-8]] [[Byte Order Mark|BOM]] which was obviously confusing the server. Thanks to the [http://validator.w3.org/ W3C Validator] for solving that one. --{{User:Throup/signature}} 20:59, 30 October 2005 (UTC)

==Editintro with new section==

No links in the format http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=PAGENAME&action=edit&section=new&editintro=INTROPAGE will work unless PAGENAME doesn't exist. As an example, http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Reference%20desk/Humanities&action=edit&section=new&editintro=Wikipedia:Reference%20desk/How%20to%20ask doesn't work. They still load a section edit page, but the edit intro does not display. Is this a feature, bug, or "issue"? :) [[User:Superm401|Superm401]] | [[User_talk:Superm401|Talk]] 18:52, 30 October 2005 (UTC)

==Artificial delay (very brief block) after username registration==

Would it be possible to introduce an artificial delay between the time a username is registered (and appears in Special:Log/newusers) and the time the newly-registered user can make their first edit? It should be at least 60 seconds, perhaps a few minutes, and perhaps this could be enforced in the software by automatically applying a very short block (one that doesn't affect the underlying IP).

This would not inconvenience normal users, who normally only register one username, ever. However it would help to deal with certain abusive sock usernames. Obviously, vandals can register innocuous-sounding sock usernames, but very often the whole point is to create a throwaway single-use username to leave a (taunting or sometimes even obscene) "message" in the contribution history. It would be nice if such "messages" could remain confined to the newusers log.

Right now, vandalbots can make their first edit only seconds after registering, and that's often too fast to block by manual or artificial means. Since the throwaway name is only used for a single hit-and-run edit, there's little benefit to blocking it after the fact, although we do so anyway.

As mentioned above, this wouldn't stop all vandalism, just "taunting username" vandalism. It would remove much of the motivation for even trying to registering "on wheels" or "is communism" sock names, since routine RC patrol would catch these in plenty of time. Right now, such names are often created in bursts, where the vandals engage in a race against time trying to get their edits in before each sock is blocked. We could put an end to that particular bit of nonsense, at least.

-- [[User:Curps|Curps]] 19:59, 30 October 2005 (UTC)

:i certainly find i get highly pissed off by any form registration delays on sites (mainly in the form of waiting for e-mails) and i'm far less likely to actually contribute to a site if i face such a delay. Maybe wikipedias allowing of anon edits would mitigate this a bit but i still think it would piss off prospective contributers. [[User:Plugwash|Plugwash]] 20:16, 30 October 2005 (UTC)

::It's only 60 seconds. I think this is a good idea. ~~ '''[[User:Nickptar|N]]''' ([[User talk:Nickptar|t]]/[[Special:Contributions/Nickptar|c]]) 20:20, 30 October 2005 (UTC)

:::If it's 60 seconds and we tell them why, maybe it would be acceptable, especially as I'd think genuine contributors would often take nearly that long to go (back) to the article they want to edit, read relevant bit, edit, and save. However a simple IP block would lose edits made before 60 seconds are up, wouldn't it? Whereas in that case we'd want to say "hang on, this will appear in 37 seconds because it's your first edit (unless you're blocked between now and then)." [[User:Rd232|Rd232]] ^{[[user talk:rd232|talk]]} 20:36, 30 October 2005 (UTC)

:::I agree; 60 seconds is reasonable. A minute goes by quite quickly when you're navigating a new website, and this delay would be helpful in fighting vandalbots. [[User:Antandrus|Antandrus ]] [[User_talk:Antandrus|(talk)]] 23:46, 30 October 2005 (UTC)

*Maybe an even better idea would be a delay that depends on how many usernames were registered from that IP in the past day or so. 1st user name - 10 seconds. 2nd user name - 1 minute. 3rd user name - 2 minutes. Etc. Prevents massive account creation. [[User:Radiant!|R]][[User_talk:Radiant!|adiant]][[meta:mergist|_<font color="orange">&gt;|&lt;</font>]] 01:45, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

**There would have to be some special provision for shared IPs, or the delays could easily become quite large in some cases. [[User:Rd232|Rd232]] ^{[[user talk:rd232|talk]]} 21:55, 1 November 2005 (UTC)

==Uploading New Version of Image==

Hi, I am trying to upload a new version of an image over the top of the earlier one, which I have done many times before. The specific file I am trying to upload over is [[:Image:Yarralumla_IBMap-TEST-MJC.png]]. I am getting a page that tells me "A file with this name exists already; please go back and upload this file under a new name." and doesn't give me the option to overwrite like I used to get. Is this a problem with the code? --[[User:Martyman|Martyman]]-<span style="font-size:90%">[[User_Talk:Martyman|(talk)]]</span> 03:02, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

I have received the same error on [[:Image:A1a_at_ksc_small.jpg]]. I cannot find any options to change, and I am able to make revision changes to other images. Figure it must be a misconfiguration. --[[User:Mcmillen76|Mcmillen76]] 04:15, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

: I've talked with [[User:Tim Starling|Tim Starling]] and [[User:Brion Vibber|Brion Vibber]], and they told me that it is because they've disallowed it while they're fixing problems with the rendering of images. That restriction will be lifted as soon as they finish the transition to a new server. [[User:Titoxd|Tito]]<font color="#008000">[[Wikipedia:Esperanza|xd]]</font>^{([[User_talk:Titoxd|?!?]])} 05:12, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

:: I just asked again how long it's going to be down, and they estimate a few hours. [[User:Titoxd|Tito]]<font color="#008000">[[Wikipedia:Esperanza|xd]]</font>^{([[User_talk:Titoxd|?!?]])} 05:21, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

:::It's back. Go wild! --[[User:Brion VIBBER|Brion]] 06:44, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

== Vandalism report ==

I was looking up Greek history on wikipedia tonight and came across this Plato page with a picture of a penis on it:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plato

I don't know what to say other than to report it and hope it gets fixed immediately.

thank you.

: I think you're confused. The last edit of that page was about 12 hours before you posted your message, and there are no pictures of penises on the page. In any case, if there was you have the ability to edit that page yourself to remove it, which is the whole point of this encyclopaedia. --[[User:Lapsus Linguae|Craig]] ([[User talk:Lapsus Linguae|t]]|[[Special:Contributions/Lapsus Linguae|c]]) 04:46, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

:The vandalism was to the {{tl|Otheruses}} template. It was reverted after two minutes, and unfortunately you were one of the users who looked at an article which used that template in that time.-[[User:Gadfium|gadfium]] 05:27, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

:: Interesting. Thanks for pointing that out. Learn something new every day. :) --[[User:Lapsus Linguae|Craig]] ([[User talk:Lapsus Linguae|t]]|[[Special:Contributions/Lapsus Linguae|c]]) 05:50, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

== Bad rendering at Category:User_en-N ==

In the article '''Category:User_en-N''' garbage appears right after its own self-cite; this appears to not be a browser problem, but some template gone deeply amok. Alas, I have not the technical wherewithal to diagnose whence the problem actually is. --[[User:Dogcow|moof]] 13:18, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

:That's because somebody placed a [[WP:TFD|tfd]] on [[Template:User sco N]]. See [[Wikipedia:Templates for deletion#User sco templates]]. [[User:Lupo|Lupo]] 13:37, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

== Subst'ing templates ==

A bot is under production to automatically [[Help:Subst|subst]] certain templates. It is generally accepted that certain templates should always be subst'ed rather than transcluded, for page stability and to reduce server load (see [[WP:AUM]] for details). If you have suggestions for templates that should always (or never) be subst'ed, please contribute them to [[Wikipedia:Subst]]. [[User:Radiant!|R]][[User_talk:Radiant!|adiant]][[meta:mergist|_<font color="orange">&gt;|&lt;</font>]] 23:00, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

[[Category:To Village Pump (proposals)]]

[[Category:Wikipedia community forums|{{PAGENAME}}]]

[[Category:Wikipedia features|{{PAGENAME}}]]

== vandals ==

someone vandalised the page on Plato by inserting "Hi mom u rule" in the first sentence.

I cannot seem to edit the page.

Somebody please remedy.

: I see nothing like that on [[Plato]]. Are you talking about another page? --[[User:Lapsus Linguae|Craig]] ([[User talk:Lapsus Linguae|t]]|[[Special:Contributions/Lapsus Linguae|c]]) 13:37, 1 November 2005 (UTC)

==AFD does not display on [[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion]]==

Hi all. I was putting up an article for deletion, [[Midwest lakes policy center]], and I noticed that another article, [[Midwest Lakes Policy Center]], was already on the list. They are two different pages, for the same topic. There is just a capitalization difference between the namespaces. However, only one of them shows up on the list, even though in the AFD list's source code both of them are there. I think this is a bug; can anyone comment? --[[User:Mdd4696|mdd4696]] 14:27, 1 November 2005 (UTC)

:The issue seems to be resolved now. Perhaps a cache issue? Next time, try to click on the "Purge server cache" link just above the Table of Contents. -- [[User:Jitse Niesen|Jitse Niesen]] ([[User talk:Jitse Niesen|talk]]) 19:59, 1 November 2005 (UTC)

== Slow server ==

Why is your server so BLOODY BLOODY SLOW? This must be one of the slowest servers on the internet! At times, it takes AGES to load a page! And this is supposed to be a popular site! Sure, Wikipedia is great, but the server is way, way, way TOO SLOW!!! [[User:131.111.8.101|131.111.8.101]] 21:25, 1 November 2005 (UTC)

:That's ''because'' it's such a popular site. The server is continually overloaded. Want to donate some money to buy new hardware? ~~ '''[[User:Nickptar|N]]''' ([[User talk:Nickptar|t]]/[[Special:Contributions/Nickptar|c]]) 22:32, 1 November 2005 (UTC)

::A little off-topic, perhaps, but whatever happened to the notion that Google might host Wikipedia? Could Google not magically take care of the hardware problem? -- [[User:Ec5618|Ec5618]] 22:38, 1 November 2005 (UTC)

:::It would be good if something was done. For such a supposedly prestigious site it really is shockingly slow. Sometimes I try to convince myself that it's maybe getting a little better, but I really don't think it is. Why doesn't Wikipedia host sponsored ads to raise some money? As long as it's clear what's an ad and what isn't I have no problem with that. Then maybe enough money could be raised to get sufficient server power to run the site properly.

::::There is also the issue of software. Response times, database access, and so on are heavily dependent on the efficiency of the software, especially since wikis require a lot more "interaction" with the server than most sites. Here, we have the problem that a) there is no other wiki of this scale in existence, and b) Wikipedia (and the other Wikimedia projects) run on MediaWiki, which is pretty much written for this specific task. A lot of the scaling issues we encounter have never really cropped up before, so the software will inevitably not be working at its best efficiency at any given time - as we adapt to traffic, the traffic keeps growing. It'll probably begin to flatten out soon (if it doesn't, I'd be amazed), which should help - we'll have our resources growing faster than they're used once that happens.

::::On sponsored ads... generally speaking, they're viewed with great suspicion by the community, and as it stands now we don't ''need'' the money; the project can survive (albeit not perfectly) on donations and volunteer work. It's a can of worms it's probably best not to open. [[User:Shimgray|Shimgray]] | [[User talk:Shimgray|talk]] | 02:11, 5 November 2005 (UTC)

And today, for me, it is atypically fast. -- [[User:Jmabel|Jmabel]] | [[User talk:Jmabel|Talk]] 01:55, 7 November 2005 (UTC)

== Can you insert a photo to go with words about pareidolia? ==

i wrote some words on your pareidolia page and would like to show the example of what i am talking about, without the reader going to the link. Is that possible? i think it would look good on the page. Thanks fred ressler.

:If you've got the picture on your computer, upload it at [[Special:Upload]]. You can then put the image into the article by using the following notation: <nowiki>[[Image:file_name_of_your_image.jpg]]</nowiki>. You can also do fancy things with your image using the [[Wikipedia:Extended image syntax|extended image syntax]].

:Hopefully that clears things up, but if you're still confused we can try again.

:--[[User:Cherry blossom tree|Cherry]] [[User talk:Cherry blossom tree|blossom]] [[Special:Contributions/Cherry blossom tree|tree]] 23:59, 1 November 2005 (UTC)

::That assumes, of course, that you created the image yourself, and therefore own the copyright on it. -- [[User:Jmabel|Jmabel]] | [[User talk:Jmabel|Talk]] 01:56, 7 November 2005 (UTC)

== information requested of flavor ==

Dear Sir:

We have mixing plant and flavor business in Iran .

We would like to have more information about raw materials

of liquid flavors and powder flavors (e.g seasoning ) and

circumstance mixing these raw materials and making flavors .

Best regard

Asgharinia

manager director

You should ask at the [[Wikipedia:reference desk|reference desk]]. [[User:Dmharvey|Dmharvey]] [[Image:User_dmharvey_sig.png]] [[User talk:Dmharvey|Talk]] 13:01, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

[[hu:Wikipédia:Kocsmafal (műszaki)]]

== Frequency of household power and it's relationship to electrocution risk. ==

Does the 50 Hz used in EU countries pose more or less of an electrocution risk than the 60Hz used in the USA?

:The frequency wouldn't much matter (although it might have a slight effect on the degree to which muscle spasms cause the victim to hold onto the wire). The amperage is the most important factor, but voltage also matters. And, whether the skin is wet, whether the person is grounded, whether they have a heart condition, etc., also come into play. [[User:StuRat|StuRat]] 02:36, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

== Formatting ==

Okay, when I refreshed a page a moment ago, everything went weird as if it had been reformatted in an XPish sort of way. It was too specific to just have been a loading error. What's going on? It went when I refreshed again.

== Audio links ==

'''The problem:''' We want a way to briefly link to audio files, like so:

:'''Bordeaux''' ([[Image:Loudspeaker.png|Sound]]&nbsp;[[:Image:Fr-Bordeaux.ogg|pronunciation]][[Wikipedia:Media help|<small>[?]</small>]]) is a [[Seaport|port]] city in...

But if you click on the loudspeaker icon, you go to the image page for the loudspeaker icon, which obviously confuses a lot of people. So it currently looks like this:

:'''Bordeaux''' ({{audio|Fr-Bordeaux.ogg|pronunciation}}) is a [[Seaport|port]] city in...

Ideally, we would be able to use css or software changes to make a clickable icon for audio files. One way I found that works is to add the image to all ogg files, in the same way that external link icons are added after all [http://www.example.com external links]:

<pre>

#bodyContent a[href $="ogg"] {

background: url("http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f7/Loudspeaker.png") center left no-repeat;

padding-left: 16px;

}

</pre>

This is probably a bad idea, though. We probably want the icons on a case-by-case basis. We should be able to make a class for this:

<pre>

.audiolink {

background: url("http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f7/Loudspeaker.png") center left no-repeat;

padding-left: 16px;

}

</pre>

This mostly works for me. Problems:

* This behaves a little differently than the other example. The loudspeaker is not actually clickable, which is better than going to the image page but worse than going to the sound file. Someone who knows css should be able to fix this. Probably because the style is a span now instead of being the actual a?

* We can't link to nothing and get a lone loudspeaker that links to the audio, since a link with no text defaults to a number: [http://www.example.com]. Maybe this is ok, though.

* It doesn't override the external links icon, so that would have to be added or else all audio files would get class="plainlinksneverexpand" also.

See [[Template talk:Audio#Possible solution]] and [[MediaWiki_talk:Common.css#Audio_links]] {{User:Omegatron/sig}} 19:48, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

== Converting HTML entities into Unicode characters ==

Does converting HTML entities into actual characters cause problems anywhere?

# It is beneficial because it makes the wikisource much easier to read.

'''But...'''

# It does make it more difficult to edit in external editors(/clipboards?) that don't support the extra characters.

#* Are there any browsers that have the same problem with textareas that will strip out characters they don't understand?

#* '''Could we selectively convert the information into HTML/unicode entities for presenting to these browsers while presenting them as actual characters to other editors? (Or make it a user preference?)'''

#** We already do. See [[bugzilla:2676]]. [[User:Susvolans|Susvolans]] [[User talk:Susvolans|⇔]] 11:19, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

# Another problem is that you can't tell at a glance the difference between similar characters in the markup:

#* <pre>&mdash;, &ndash;, &minus;, -</pre>

#* <pre>&micro;, &mu;</pre>

#* <pre>&sdot;, &middot;</pre>

They are already being used quite a bit.

# By people who type them in directly; especially for non-English languages.

# When people press the buttons in the Insert special characters box underneath the edit box.

# I, [[User:ABCD]], and others have written scripts to do automatic conversions to the special characters, and now I am worried that I might be doing a bad thing. Is this ok? {{User:Omegatron/sig}} 21:38, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

::Not exactly sure, I recall some people complaining that "non standard" characters just displayed as question marks in theyr browser, but if they have such a senile old system I don't know if the HTML entities work much better... --[[User:Sherool|Sherool]] 21:54, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

:::I'm not talking about how it displays. I'm talking about what it looks like in the edit box. If it renders them as question marks then it will replace all special characters with question marks when they save. That would be very bad. {{User:Omegatron/sig}} 01:53, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

::::Problem symbols can better be converted to TeX, or to a symbol that is almost the same, e.g. replace problem symbol "&sdot;"="⋅" by some other dot. Do you have an overview of the codes you think of converting, and the proposed result of the conversion?--[[User:Patrick|Patrick]] 02:30, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

:::::Converting em/en dash, minus sign, mu/micro, Ω, °, and some other entities to their unicode characters. See also [[User:ABCD/monobook.js]] — [[User:Omegatron|Omegatron]] 03:20, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

::::::Problem symbols which can better be converted to TeX, or to a symbol that is almost the same, are, for example, those that no not display in Verdana, IE, see the boxes below:

[[Image:Special characters Verdana IE.png]]--[[User:Patrick|Patrick]] 10:59, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

::::See also some problem symbols in [[m:Image:Special characters under edit box, IE.png]].--[[User:Patrick|Patrick]] 02:43, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

::: Some editing and Wiki tools have problems with Unicode characters. ([[User:SEWilco|SEWilco]] 03:09, 4 November 2005 (UTC))

:Aha! This has already been taken care of.

::"After en switched to utf-8 and interwiki bots started replacing html entities in interwikis with literal unicode text, edits that broke unicode characters became so common they could no longer be ignored. A workaround was developed to allow broken browsers to edit safely provided mediawiki knew they were broken.

::Browsers listed in the setting $wgBrowserBlackList (a list of regexps that match against user agent strings) are supplied text for editing in a special form. Existing hexadecimal html entities in the page have an extra leading zero added, non-ascii characters that are stored in the wikitext are repreresented as hexadecimal html entities with no leading zeros." - [[m:Help:Special_characters#The_workaround]]

:So I'm not going to worry about it. It would be nice if we could selectively access the entities version for use in external editors, though. — [[User:Omegatron|Omegatron]] 16:30, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

==An Error==

The search feature has recently been giving the error<br><br>'''Internal error: no valid response from search server (10.0.0.17)'''<br><br> What does this mean? How can it be fixed? - [[User:42istheanswer|42istheanswer]] 02:20, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

:One of the search servers had gotten a bit sluggish with too much memory usage. I've restarted them and they seem happier now. --[[User:Brion VIBBER|Brion]] 06:27, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

== Search results ==

I am glad to see search producing article results again. Is there any chance of re-instating the summary text for each result? It was very useful to see context. Thanks. [[User:Bobblewik|Bobblewik]] 16:17, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

== ...Baby One More Time ==

I cannot access the article on the song "...Baby One More Time" by Britney Spears. I get the error message "The Document contains no data" when I try. I am using Firefox on OS X -- anyone else having this problem?

-- I've tried it with safari and it doesn't work there either. -- i sent the link to two of my friends, one running XP and the other on OSX (not sure what their browsers are) and both were able to load. Anyone with any ideas? I first noticed the problem at around 10:30 today -- i've never tried to access the page before so i dont know if this is a new problem for me[[User:Tastemyhouse|TastemyHouse]] 18:18, 4 November 2005 (UTC), edited 18:21

*Seems OK to me. [[...Baby One More Time]] redirects to [[Baby One More Time]] correctly. This is using Fire<strike>bert</strike>Fox on WinXP. --[[User:DrBob|Bob Mellish]] 19:45, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

** K, correction: the problem i've having is with THIS link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...Baby_One_More_Time_%28single%29 -- the song, not the album [[User:Tastemyhouse|TastemyHouse]] 22:21, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

** Works for me in Windows XP IE. [[User:WauloK|WauloK]] 22:41, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

*** this really makes no sense. -- I just set up [[Wikipedia:Tools/Navigation_popups|popups]], and if i mouseover the link to the page [[...Baby One More Time (single)]] -- the popup loads fine, and i'm able to click the redirect and get to [[...Baby One More Time (song)]], but i get an error if i try to load the (single) article directly. I dont get it. [[User:Tastemyhouse|TastemyHouse]] 23:31, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

*** Okay! This makes even less sense! I can only get to the ...Baby One More Time (song) article by clicking the link to it in the popup. even though its identical to the link I just placed on this page not 4 minutes ago, if i attempt to get to the article by any means other than clicking on the link in the popup, i get the same error. I can't get to it by typing in the URL of the article directly or by using the "search" box. I can access it ONLY by clicking on the link in the popup. this means that the issue isn't really a problem, since i can access the article... its just... why?! [[User:Tastemyhouse|TastemyHouse]] 23:38, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

**** The page for the album of the same name does not work for me or other people behind the same router as me either. is there something special about these articles? why can't get get to them? [[User:Tastemyhouse|TastemyHouse]] 23:47, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

**** Maybe somehow your router blocks links with two or more dots together for some bizarre reason? (just guessing) [[User:WauloK|WauloK]] 12:31, 5 November 2005 (UTC)

*Perhaps try [[Baby One More Time (single)]]? It is a redirect, without the dots. --[[User:Fastfission|Fastfission]] 19:43, 5 November 2005 (UTC)

* seems like its the dots thats screwing me over.. but why is the popup able to properly load it if its my the network not handling the dots properly? oh well. one of those weird things. [[User:Tastemyhouse|TastemyHouse]] 00:44, 6 November 2005 (UTC)

*:I'm not a user of the popups, but I'd guess they use /w/index.php?title= instead of /wiki/, which could make a difference. --[[User:CesarB|cesarb]] 04:22, 6 November 2005 (UTC)

== Romulus Augustus ==

Can someone please clean up and remove the vandalism on the Wiki article about Romulus Augustus? Also, make it easier to report site vandalism please.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romulus_Augustus

:Since anyone can revert vandalism, this usually isn't a problem. To revert vandalism, just click on the history link, at the top of any page, and look for the most recent unvandalised version. When you then edit that out-of-date revision of the article (click on the edit link at the top) and simply click '''save page'''. You'll have saved a vandalism free version over the vandalised one. -- [[User:Ec5618|Ec5618]] 23:47, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

== copyright dates? ==

My son is trying to make a bibliography card and I don't see anywhere where I would find the author or a date, etc... can you assist?

:See [[Wikipedia:Citing Wikipedia]]. ~~ '''[[User:Nickptar|N]]''' ([[User talk:Nickptar|t]]/[[Special:Contributions/Nickptar|c]]) 00:57, 5 November 2005 (UTC)

== Wikilink problems in template ==

* I'm trying to have a Wikilink be generated from a template but the '''<nowiki>[[</nowiki>''' opening brackets interfere with the enclosing template. The entire template becomes displayed instead of only the brackets. '''{{show1|1=[[}}Horse]]''' should produce a wikilink to article "Horse". Closing brackets behave as expected. ([[User:SEWilco|SEWilco]] 07:04, 5 November 2005 (UTC))

* Second problem: How can a pipe symbol be within a template? <nowiki>'''[[Horse{{show1|<now</nowiki><nowiki>iki>|</now</nowiki><nowiki>iki>}}Cow]]'''</nowiki> '''[[Horse{{show1|<nowiki>|</nowiki>}}Cow]]''' does not produce a recognized wikilink. The ''nowiki'' seems to be needed to express a pipe symbol within a template, but I think the ''nowiki'' is emitted and interpreted within the attempted wikilink. ([[User:SEWilco|SEWilco]] 07:04, 5 November 2005 (UTC))

* Incidentally, I just realized a way to work around these problems, at least for my situation. Created [[Template:Wikilink]] which contains the troublesome characters in raw form so they don't need to be part of a process to assemble a Wikilink. <nowiki>{{wikilink|Horse|Cow}}</nowiki>: {{wikilink|Horse|Cow}} ([[User:SEWilco|SEWilco]] 07:28, 5 November 2005 (UTC))

::Why do you ''need'' either of these templates? ~~ '''[[User:Nickptar|N]]''' ([[User talk:Nickptar|t]]/[[Special:Contributions/Nickptar|c]]) 02:16, 6 November 2005 (UTC)

:::Yes, what were you trying to do with the original template? [[User:Superm401|Superm401]] | [[User_talk:Superm401|Talk]] 03:33, 6 November 2005 (UTC)

:::: Optional ''Authorlink'' parameter on [[Template:Book reference]] for linking to an author's Wikipedia article. Original attempts involved inserting the troublesome characters where appropriate. ([[User:SEWilco|SEWilco]] 04:11, 6 November 2005 (UTC))

== bot to delete self reference redirects ==

Looking through [[WP:RFD]], there are many votes for deletion of redirects to the wikipedia namespace to [[WP:ASR]].

I propose there to be a bot to search for redirects from the main to the wikipedia namespace and to delete them.

There could be other combinations as well between various namespaces.

Can this be done?

--[[User:Zondor|Zondor]] 19:17, 5 November 2005 (UTC)

== Loss of session data ==

I've been getting this error all day, and logging out and back in doesn't make it go away. Server troubles?

''Sorry! We could not process your edit due to a loss of session data. Please try again. If it still doesn't work, try logging out and logging back in.''

--[[User:Rayc|Rayc]] 22:46, 5 November 2005 (UTC)

:You could try deleting all your wikipedia.org cookies. --[[User:CesarB|cesarb]] 04:56, 6 November 2005 (UTC)

== Error is back ==

The "Internal error: no valid response from search server (10.0.0.17)" error is back. -[[User:42istheanswer|42istheanswer]] 04:45, 6 November 2005 (UTC)

:So it is. Personally, I just always use a google site search. I.E. "site:en.wikipedia.org <terms here>". [[User:Superm401|Superm401]] | [[User_talk:Superm401|Talk]] 04:51, 6 November 2005 (UTC)

== Kates Tool ==

I have just used Kates Tool and it only credited me with 592 when the last time I checked I had 617.

That is 25 edits lost. I don't want to lose edits. Help. Thanks.--[[User:DakotaKahn|<font face=" arial narrow"><b><font color="##6698FF">Dak</font><font color="##FBB117">ota</font>]] [[User Talk:DakotaKahn|<font face=" arial narrow"><b><font color="##6698FF"><sup>t]] [[Wikipedia:Esperanza|<font face=" arial narrow"><b><font color="#66CC00"><sup>e]] 08:18, 6 November 2005 (UTC)

:(replied on [[Wikipedia talk:Kate's Tool]]. kate)

== y with macron problem ==

y with macron, {{Unicode|ȳ}}, Unicode 233 hex, which is used in [[Old English morphology]], appears as a box on my computer even though it is enclosed in Template Unicode. The same problem occurs with Template IPA: {{IPA|ȳ}}

I use MSIE 6.0, and my fonts include Arial Unicode MS, Microsoft Sans Serif.

The problem appears to be that Arial Unicode MS appears before Microsoft Sans Serif in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]], but Arial Unicode MS doesn't support codes 218-24F. --[[User:TEB728|teb728]] 10:46, 6 November 2005 (UTC)

:You should ask about it at [[Template talk:Unicode]]. --[[User:CesarB|cesarb]] 18:52, 6 November 2005 (UTC)

== Wikipedia Source Code ==

Hi;

Is the source code open? Where do I find it?

TIA,

beno

: Yes, it is. See [[Mediawiki]], our article about the software that runs Wikipedia. -- [[User:Finlay McWalter|Finlay McWalter]] | [[User talk:Finlay McWalter | Talk]] 22:51, 6 November 2005 (UTC)

== Tabs ==

I've noticed that the tabs at the [[:es:|Spanish Wikipedia]] have a little bend in the upper-right corner, which makes them look more like tabs. Just wondering, is there a reason why we don't do that here? Because the site would look a little bit nicer in my opinion. [[User:Titoxd|Tito]]<font color="#008000">[[Wikipedia:Esperanza|xd]]</font>^{([[User_talk:Titoxd|?!?]])} 05:44, 7 November 2005 (UTC)

:It's a Mozilla [[Cascading Style Sheets|CSS]] extension - not guaranteed to work on all browsers, and besides, we've ALWAYS had square tabs. If you want, you can add the following to your monobook.css:

<pre><nowiki>

.pBody

{

padding: 0.3em 0.1em;

-moz-border-radius-topright: 0.5em;

}

.portlet h5

{

background-color: #e0e3e6;

border: thin solid silver;

-moz-border-radius-topright: 0.5em;

}

#p-cactions ul li, #p-cactions ul li a

{

-moz-border-radius-topright: 0.5em;

/* -moz-border-radius-topleft: 0.5em; */

}

#content

{

-moz-border-radius-topleft: 0.5em;

}

</nowiki></pre>

:HTH, [[User:Alphax|Alphax]]&nbsp;<sup >[[User talk:Alphax|&tau;]][[Special:Emailuser/Alphax|&epsilon;]][[Special:Contributions/Alphax|&chi;]]</sup > 08:37, 7 November 2005 (UTC)

== Confirmation prompt for cache purge ==

Why do we now have a page asking us if we really want to purge the cache for a specific page? Are users really purging too often? It seems to me that the confirmation page would add more to the server load as it has to load and display the new intermediate page before taking action. [[User:Slambo|slambo]] 16:26, 7 November 2005 (UTC)

:Note that this only happens on certain pages - i.e., those that are large but frequently visited and frequently modified (like WP:AFD's subpages, for instance). I don't fully understand the technical side of these things, but I can see that if the cache was purged every time someone visited those pages it might actually be more strain than only doing so intermittently when asked. [[User:Grutness|Grutness]]...<font color=green><small>''[[User_talk:Grutness|wha?''</small></font>]] 23:51, 7 November 2005 (UTC)

:: It needs to be a POST request so that search engine spiders don't purge our cache when they follow the links that people seem to be putting everywhere. Humans can hit the button as often as they like, within reason, I don't think that'll cause any significant server strain. Feel free to add a purge tab using user javascript, like what [[User:Alphax|Alphax]] has done: [[User:Alphax/monobook.js]]. -- [[User:Tim Starling|Tim Starling]] 04:19, 8 November 2005 (UTC)

== Limit search to own watchlist ==

In the [[Special:Search|search tool]] we can limit a search to specific namespaces. Is it possible somehow to limit a search to the pages on one's own [[Special:Watchlist|watchlist]]? If not, is this bug-worthy? --[[User:Eddideigel|Eddi]] [[User talk:Eddideigel|<small>(Talk)</small>]] 01:33, 8 November 2005 (UTC)

:It's not possible now, and while you can make an enhancement request at http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org , I don't think the developers will make it a priority. [[User:Superm401|Superm401]] | [[User_talk:Superm401|Talk]] 01:43, 8 November 2005 (UTC)

== Image tag won't work ==

OK, I know I'm going to make a fool of myself when someone points out some really obvious thing I've missed, but I've tried. Can anyone explain why the image tag at the top of the section at http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Condom&oldid=27243082#Proper_use is not working? Even if reduced to an absolute minimum of parameters (i.e., just using the image name), all you get is a link. The link works and the image is there, but it does not show up as intended on the page. I even tried moving it somewhere else on the page (right to the top) in case some bug was causing a problem with an open tag somewhere, but the same thing happens.

The mark-up:

<nowiki>[[Image:CondomUse.jpg|thumb|100px|right|Male condom application.]]</nowiki>

results in:

<nowiki><a href="/wiki/Image:CondomUse.jpg" title="Image:CondomUse.jpg">thumb|100px|right|Male condom application.</a></nowiki>

Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks.

--[[User:Lapsus Linguae|Craig]] ([[User talk:Lapsus Linguae|t]]|[[Special:Contributions/Lapsus Linguae|c]]) 04:53, 8 November 2005 (UTC)

: Hmm. Since I've tried inserting the image the regular way, I presume it is on the Bad image list. I'll check. [[User:Titoxd|Tito]]<font color="#008000">[[Wikipedia:Esperanza|xd]]</font>^{([[User_talk:Titoxd|?!?]])} 05:51, 8 November 2005 (UTC)

:: There it is: [[MediaWiki:Bad image list]]. Sorry, it just can't be placed there. [[User:Titoxd|Tito]]<font color="#008000">[[Wikipedia:Esperanza|xd]]</font>^{([[User_talk:Titoxd|?!?]])} 05:52, 8 November 2005 (UTC)

::: Interesting. Thanks. On that page it says, "These images are prohibited by technical means from being displayed inline in articles." Is it just my imagination, or is it sheer coincidence that all of the images (a grand total of 7 of them) that cannot be displayed in-line for "technical" reasons, all display the human male penis? There are plenty of other such images in relevant articles, so I'm at a loss to see the technical reason for this. Any idea? --[[User:Lapsus Linguae|Craig]] ([[User talk:Lapsus Linguae|t]]|[[Special:Contributions/Lapsus Linguae|c]]) 13:27, 8 November 2005 (UTC)

:::: OK, I just re-read that. It says "... by technical means..." not "... for technical reasons...". Still my question stands. In the [[penis]] article there are other pictures (some copies of the "bad images") displayed in-line, so the existence of this list seems very odd to me. Still interested in comments from someone who knows why this list exists. Thanks. --[[User:Lapsus Linguae|Craig]] ([[User talk:Lapsus Linguae|t]]|[[Special:Contributions/Lapsus Linguae|c]]) 13:31, 8 November 2005 (UTC)

:::::That list includes images which are often used on vandalism. The original reason for the creation of that hidden MediaWiki feature is still the first image on the list, [[Wikipedia:Glossary#Autofellatio|Image:Autofellatio 2.jpg]]. The images displayed inline on [[penis]] are reduced versions of the full-sized images (which are on the list), which makes them less useful for vandalism (it doesn't have the same effect as a full-sized one would). And no, I have no idea ''why'' the images most often used on vandalism are images of the human male penis. --[[User:CesarB|cesarb]] 14:10, 8 November 2005 (UTC)

:::::: Ah, OK. Thanks for the explanation. --[[User:Lapsus Linguae|Craig]] ([[User talk:Lapsus Linguae|t]]|[[Special:Contributions/Lapsus Linguae|c]]) 14:49, 8 November 2005 (UTC)