Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Fascism/Archive 4 and Australian Cattle Dog: Difference between pages

(Difference between pages)
Content deleted Content added
 
Just had to add that
 
Line 1:
<!--- The following markup is for the breed table displayed on the page. Scroll down to get to the main text --->
==To Do==
{| border=1 cellspacing=0 align=right cellpadding=2
{{todo}}
|- align=center bgcolor=pink
!Australian Cattle Dog
|-align="center"
|[[Image:AustrCattleDogBlue_wb.jpg|thumbnail|250px|none|Blue coat color; this dog's tail is docked.]]
|- align=center bgcolor=pink
!Alternative names
|-
|
{| align=center
|-
|Australian Heeler
|-
|Blue Heeler
|-
|Red Heeler
|-
|Hall's Heeler
|-
|Queensland Heeler
|}
|- align=center bgcolor=pink
!Country of origin
|- align=center
|[[Australia]]
|- align=center bgcolor=pink
!Common nicknames
|- align=center
|Bluey, ACD, Cattledog
|- align=center bgcolor=pink
!Classification and breed standards
|-
|
{| align=center
|[[Fédération Cynologique Internationale|FCI]]: ||Group 1 Section 2 #287
|-
|[[American Kennel Club|AKC]]: ||Herding
|[http://www.akc.org/breeds/australian_cattle_dog/index.cfm Std]
|-
|[[Australian National Kennel Council|ANKC]]: ||Group 5 (Working Dogs)
|[http://www.ankc.aust.com/austcat.html Std]
|-
|[[Canadian Kennel Club|CKC]]: ||Group 7 - Herding Dogs
|[http://www.nwstar.com/~acdcc/standard.htm Std]
|-
|[[Kennel Club (UK)|KC(UK)]]: ||Pastoral
|[http://www.the-kennel-club.org.uk/discoverdogs/pastoral/p835.htm Std]
|-
|[[New Zealand Kennel Club|NZKC]]: ||Working
|[http://www.nzkc.org.nz/br504.html Std]
|-
|[[United Kennel Club|UKC]]: || Herding Dog Breeds
|[http://www.ukcdogs.com/breeds/herdingdogs/australiancattledog.std.shtml Std]
|-
|}
|}<!-- end of breed table -->
The '''Australian Cattle Dog''' (ACD), also known as the '''Queensland Heeler''', '''Blue Heeler''', and '''Red Heeler''', is a [[herding dog]] developed in Australia for controlling [[cattle]]. It is a medium-sized dog with a lot of energy and an independent streak.
 
==General talkAppearance==
[[Image:AustrCattleDogBlueFace_wb.jpg|thumbnail|left|One variant of Blue face markings]]
I think someone is really paranoid. Accusing any parties fascist need some solid proofs. I object the idea someone can run around and add this tag on whatever page he wishes. [[User:Bobbybuilder|Bobbybuilder]] 11:58, 9 September 2005 (UTC) {{n}}
The Cattle Dog's coat comes in a variety of markings, sometimes quite striking. The basic coat colors are ''blue'' and ''red speckle''. For dog owners whose interest is primarily in their qualification for [[dog show]]s, even markings are preferred over uneven markings, and large solid-color marks on the body are undesireable. For owners who are more interested in their dogs' performance in activities such as [[herding]] or [[dog sports]], the breed's strong work ethic and intelligence are of more importance than the exact coat markings.
 
The mask is one of the most distinctive features of an ACD. This mask consists of a darker red patch over one or both eyes (for the red speckle coat color) or a black patch over one or both eyes (for the blue coat color). These are called, respectively, ''single mask'' and ''double mask''. ACDs without a mask are called ''plain-faced''. Any of these is correct according to the breed standard, and the only limitation is the owner's preference.
==Posse Comitatus==
Hello? What evidence do people have to call the Posse Comitatus "Fascist?" It is an anarchical movement. There were undoubtedly some neofascists in it, but let's not toss every ultra-right group into the Fascist bucket.--[[User:Cberlet|Cberlet]] 13:50, 8 September 2005 (UTC)
[[Image:AustrCattleDogRed_wb.jpg|thumbnail|left|Red speckle coat color with undocked tail]]
:''see discussion on [[Talk:Posse Comitatus (U.S. movement)]]. It was agreed that Posse Comitatus has some connections to American fascism, but does not meet the criteria for a fascist movement. [[User:Stlemur|Stlemur]] 14:31, 9 September 2005 (UTC)''
Many Australian Cattle Dogs have a stripe of white hair in the center of the forehead, usually 1/2 inch to 1 inch by 2 inches to 3 inches (about 2 cm by 7 cm) called the ''Bentley Mark''. This is similar in appearance to the blaze markings sometimes found on [[horse]]s. According to legend, a popular dog owned by Tom Bentley passed on this distinctive mark to all Australian Cattle Dogs.
 
A female Australian Cattle Dog should measure about 17 to 19 inches (43 to 48 cm) at the [[withers]]. A male Australian Cattle Dog should measure about 18 to 20 inches (46 to 51 cm) at the [[withers]]. An ACD is a well-muscled, compact dog with a short, dense coat and a naturally long tail. An ACD in good condition should weigh roughly 40 to 50 pounds (18 to 23 kg).
==Syndicalism==
The question has been raised as to what exactly the "[[Syndicalism|syndicalist]]" in "syndicalist [[Corporatism|corporatist]]" means. Based on [[Fascism]] and [[Talk:Fascism]], I propose the following draft definition:
 
Some breeders [[docking|dock]] ACD's tails. This is a controversial practice and, in some countries, is illegal or is prohibited for dogs in the [[dog show|show ring]].
'''''Syndicalist corporatism''', in the fascist sense, means "corporatism which divides the economy [[Vertical_market|vertically]]"'''
Docking Australian Cattle Dogs' tails is a practice peculiar to the United States - ACD tails are not docked in their country of origin, Australia. This is not to be confused with the Stumpy-tailed Cattle Dog, which is born with a naturally docked, or 'bobbed' tail; this animal strongly resembles the ACD in colouring, but has a slightly taller, leaner conformation.
 
==Temperament==
That is, a syndicalist corporate state would have a government-guided but private automotive sector (possibly but not necessarily a monopoly), separate from an agricultural sector, separate from a telecommunications sector, and so on.
Like many [[herding dog]]s, Cattle Dogs have high energy levels and active minds. They need plenty of exercise and a job to do, such as participating in [[dog sports]], learning tricks, or other activities that engage their minds. Some individuals find repetitive training frustrating and dull, so owners should aim to make training sessions varied and more exciting in order to keep their Dog intrested. Cattle Dogs who do not receive the appropriate exercise and entertainment will invent their own, often destructive, activities. These Dogs are, by nature, timid or wary. They are naturally cautious, and grow more so as they age.Their aggresive nature on strangers make them perfect gaurd dogs.
Cattle Dogs drive cattle by nipping at their heels, but they have also been known to herd other animals, such as ducks or chickens without instruction when left to their own devices. When around people, their instinct to herd is sometimes hard to suppress and they can nip at people to herd them. If these dogs will be around children, they and their owners must have sufficient training to know how to manage or avoid such situations.
 
==Australian Cattle Dog activities==
This is how industry was divided in [[Nazi Germany]], although I'm less certain about Italy.
[[Image:Acd_diving.jpg|thumbnail|left|ACDs need and enjoy any activity, such as diving and swimming.]]
 
Australian Cattle Dogs not only tolerate a high level of physical activity, they almost demand it. Like many other [[herding dog]] breeds, they have active and fertile minds that turn mischievous if not properly channeled. ACDs are highly intelligent and can be very bossy.
Finally, I note that the fascism article has dropped "syndicalist" from its short definition of fascism entirely.
 
Thoughts? [[User:Stlemur|Stlemur]] 21:47, 10 September 2005 (UTC)
 
When not active, an ACD can be kept occupied with mental puzzles such as a [http://www.kongcompany.com Kong] stuffed with treats or a [http://www.sitstay.com/store/toys/toysd.shtml Buster Cube].
==Useful books==
Among the most popular activities for Australian Cattle Dogs is [[dog agility]]. While the ACD is ideally suited for this work, since it is a [[herding dog|herding breed]] and thus very reactive to the handler's body language, some ACDs become easily frustrated at the repetition and routine necessary to hone agility skills. As for many breeds, frequent brief training sessions are more effective than infrequent long training sessions.
Anyone know where I can find ''The Reappearance of the Swastika: Neo-Nazism and Fascist International: A Comprehensive Survey of All Organizations, Leaders, Cross-Connexions, and Their Ideological Background''. London: Gamma Publications, 1960.?
For this reason, many handlers find training an ACD to be challenging. It is important to always change the methods and exercises and not allow the dog or handler to get into a rut. ACDs thrive on change and new experiences.
 
[[Image:Acd_scent_articles.jpg|thumbnail|right|An ACD finding a scent article as part of obedience competition.]] Only a few ACDs, therefore, have excelled in [[obedience training|obedience competition]]
== Definition of Fascism ==
For example, the [[American Kennel Club]] awards an "Obedience Trial Championship" (OTCh) to the dog-and-handler team that defeats a large number of other teams in open competition. A handful of ACDs have reached this level. While ACDs enjoy the challenge of obedience competition, such as retrieving a scented article, the majority of ACDs are easily bored with precision drilling.
 
===Australian Cattle Dogs in movies===
Could someone please provide a scholarly source which supports this wikiproject's definition of fascism? Such key aspects of fascism as anti-marxism/social democracy (I would say anti-socialism, save that this would bring out the right-wing kooks who will say that fascism ''was'' socialist) and anti-liberalism are not mentioned. ''using violence and modern techniques of propaganda and censorship to forcibly suppress political opposition'' seems to me a pointlessly broad criteria - practically any non-democratic regime will do this. ''stressing loyalty to a single leader'' also seems dubiously broad, but probably could be saved by strengthening. On the other hand, the points about syndicalist corporatism seem to me to be way too narrow - many fascist regimes have not advocated syndicalism in any notable way. The use of "totalitarianism" as a factor possibly defining fascism seems equally dubious, in that the meaning of totalitarianism is at least as disputed as the meaning of fascism. Furthermore, I think most would argue that Mussolini's Italy does ''not'' fit the characteristics of totalitarianism. If we are to try and define Fascist movements, I would suggest we do so in a more explicitly grounded way, by looking at definitions and criteria that have been proposed by actual scholars of fascism.
* ''mad dog'' (blue) and a Dingo (red) in ''[[The Sundowners]]'' ([[1960 in film|1960]])
* ''Dog'' in ''[[Mad Max 2: The Road Warrior]]'' ([[1981 in film|1981]])
* ''Zip'' in ''[[Last of the Dogmen]]'' ([[1995 in film|1995]])
 
==External links==
For instance, Ernst Nolte gives us:
*[http://www.acdca.org Australian Cattle Dog Club of America website]
#the principle of hierarchy
*[http://www.acdcc.ca Australian Cattle Dog Club of Canada website]
#a shared desire to create a "new world"
*[http://www.cattledog.com CattleDog.com Centralized repository for all things ''"Cattledog"'']
#a craving for violence and the worship of youth
*[http://www.acdagility.com ACD Agility website]
#a broad mass appeal
*[http://www.australiancattledog.com Australian Cattle Dog website: Breed FAQ, Photos, Breeders]
#a mixture of revolutionary fervour and "veneration of tradition."
*[http://www.cowdogz.com/ CowDogz.com]
 
==References==
Nolte's book, of course, is rather old, and a bit weird, too. But he's one of the major theorists. Paxton's definition of fascism would probably also be useful, as also Paul Preston. But the important thing is to look at the way scholars of fascism define it, not coming up with our own definition. I would suggest that any movement or regime which can fit into any of several major scholars' definitions of fascism could be included in the project, to keep us from being POV and asserting one definition as the basic standard. But I think something along these lines is absolutely necessary. [[User:John Kenney|john]] [[User_talk:John Kenney|k]] 23:39, 12 September 2005 (UTC)
*Buetow K. ''The Australian Cattle Dog : An Owner's Guide to a Happy Healthy Pet'' ISBN 0876054467.
 
:My first inclination, unsatisfying as it may be, to let the current definition stand for the pragmatic reason that, having read through [[Talk:Fascism]]'s 15 pages, this is the best Wikipedia's been able to to.
 
<gallery>
:Unfortunately all my good texts are packed right now, but which regimes would you classify as fascist but non-syndicalist? I'm wary about casting too wide a net (believe it or not); if you turn "syndicalist corporatist" into "corporatist" and "totalitarian" into "statist", I think you end up drawing in the bulk of modern conservatism.
Image:ACDRedChampion.jpg|Champion Red face markings
Image:Acd_a_frame.jpg|A young ACD at the top of a dog agility A-frame
Image:Acd_jump_chute.jpg|An ACD in a jump chute, practicing [[dog agility]]
Image:Stripepuppy.jpg|Puppy with blue coat color
</gallery>
 
[[Category:Dog breeds]]
:Anticommunism sounds on the face of it like a good determinor; however, it's not absolute. The first counterexample that comes to mind is the [[Mouvement Ouvrier Social-National Breton]]; plus what do we do with [[National Bolshevism]]?
 
[[de:Australian Cattle Dog]]
:I agree with you in principle that the definition as it stands could use tweaking, although I'm not comfortable with asserting one without consensus.
[[nl:Australische veedrijvershond]]
 
[[pl:Australian Cattle Dog]]
:Sorry this isn't so substantive. Like I said, I don't have access to my really good books until at least the 23rd. [[User:Stlemur|Stlemur]] 00:42, 13 September 2005 (UTC)
 
In terms of corporatism, I'm not sure the issue is so much whether or not they advocated corporatism, as whether or not this is a sufficiently important part of a fascist system to be considered a defining characteristic. An issue, though, is that the only two undisputedly fascist ''regimes'' to exist, outside of a number of Quisling regimes during World War II, were Mussolini's Italy and Hitler's Germany. Thus, comparisons on the basis of regime are bound to not work terribly well. In terms of Fascist ''movements'', I don't recall corporatism being an especially important aspect of the [[Iron Guard]] in Romania or the [[Arrow Cross Party|Arrow Cross]] in Hungary, which were the two fascist movements other than those in Italy and Germany which a) had the most popular support; and b) were the two explicitly fascist movements which were most independent of Italian and German influence. And, to be honest, syndicalism was not a terribly important part of Nazism, if it can be considered an element of Nazism at all. ''Corporatism'' was certainly involved in Nazism, but even that is not one of the most terribly decisive elements. At any rate, I'd suggest that we look into the various definitions of fascism supplied by major theorists, that we look at the cases which are considered fascist by said theorists, and work from there. I would add that, in the meanwhile, a ''definite'' addition to the criteria for fascist regimes would have to be the existence of a fascist movement in positions of power within the government. I would also add that point 7 on the fascist movement scale should be sufficient, in and of itself, for a movement to be considered a fascist one. Or are you saying that, say a hypothetical Swedish National Socialist Fascist Party, which fails to advocate syndicalist corporatism and which does not precisely advocate "totalitarian" systems is not a fascist party? [[User:John Kenney|john]] [[User_talk:John Kenney|k]] 02:39, 13 September 2005 (UTC)
 
:Insightful as always, Mr. K. I'm particularly wary of saying that fascism is necessarily totalitarian.
:Probably one of the biggest services this project could do for Wikipedia would be a good survey of the academic literature on the definition of fascism.
:It also may be that the project name is going to make this all much more contentious than it needs to be. The fact is, "fascism" nowadays is almost always used as a pejorative. Unless the scope of this project largely ''ends'' with World War II, the name is going to cause more difficulty than not. -- [[User:Jmabel|Jmabel]] | [[User talk:Jmabel|Talk]] 02:08, 14 September 2005 (UTC)
 
::My personal primary area of interest ends with 1945 anyway; "Neo"-fascism, especially post-WWII white supremacist groups (another task -- weed out the actual Neo-Nazis from the groups like, Posse Comitatus), can easily be spun off into a subproject, although fascisms arising post-WWII in nonbelligerents (e.g. Argentina, Panama, Guatemala) and inheritor parties like [[Alleanza Nationale]] and the Ustaše-in-exile movement that [[Ante Pavelic]] set up in South America might still be usefully under our scope.
 
::I agree that a party holding itself out to be fascist is important (I've included it on <nowiki>{{FascismTalk2}}</nowiki> as condition 7); I certainly can't think of any counterexamples calling themselves "fascist", although there are a few "national socialist" parties that took that name before the Nazis gave it its current meaning.
 
::As far as syndicalism goes, Kershaw definitely sees it in Germany, although as the politics of the Nazi state developed this began to blur. Certainly the way heavy industry was aligned was, initially, quite vertical, with considerable amounts of government planning and with leaders of German industry in high positions in the government.
 
::I think this leads into the question of how to classify [[Falangism]]; as far as I can tell falangism always includes the syndicalist corporatist element, and I have to admit I don't see why so many historians don't call falangism an intrinsically fascistic movement. [[User:Stlemur|Stlemur]] 02:58, 14 September 2005 (UTC)