Talk:Hagia Sophia and Kelly Clarkson: Difference between pages

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Revision as of 19:07, 23 November 2005

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== alternate spelling ==

{{unreferenced}}

[[Image:Kelly Clarkson 01.jpg|thumb|200px|Kelly Clarkson]]

I've added the alternate spelling '''Ayia Sophia''', as this is now the transliteration most Greeks prefer, and is the one provided on official Greek government literature. The "H" at the beginning represents a breath-mark in ancient Greek that no longer exists in modern Greek, but in any case was likely not pronounced like an English "h" would be. The "g" in the older transliteration represents a gamma, which has a sound somewhat between a "g" and a "y"; however, in this context, it clearly is much closer to a "y". (The shift is somewhat analogous to the Indian government renaming Bombay to Mumbai and the Chinese government renaming Peking to Beijing.) [[User:Delirium|Delirium]] 07:53 27 Jun 2003 (UTC)

: I have corrected the spelling from "Sophia" to "Sofia". Sophia is the Latin version of the name: proper spelling and usage is Sofia. [[User:Eliasbizannes|Elias Bizannes]] 18:02, 19 September 2005 (UTC)

'''Kelly Brianne Clarkson''' (born [[April 24]] [[1982]]) is an [[United States|American]] singer who won the first season of ''[[American Idol]]'' and has since gone on to have a successful recording career. She has had six Top-10 United States [[Single (music)|singles]], including three number-one radio hits from the same album (''Breakaway''), and both of her [[Album (music)|albums]] have entered the top five on the [[Billboard Top 200]] chart.

:: The "correction" made is in fact not to the most common English usage. The most common English usage (which is what dictates Wikipedia naming convention; see [[Wikipedia:Naming conventions (use English)]]) is '''Hagia Sophia'''. Google yields 391,000 hits for ''Hagia Sophia'', but only 76,800 for ''Hagia Sofia''. Additionally, ''Hagia Sophia'' is the spelling in both the ''Oxford Dictionary of Byzantium'' and the ''Blackwell Dictionary of Eastern Christianity''.

==Biography and music career==

::It is true that that spelling comes from Latin, but then again, so do many English usages regarding Greek subjects. For instance, the Wikipedia article for the sainted hero of the [[First Council of Nicea]] is spelled as ''[[Athanasius]]'', and not ''Athanasios''. The same goes for [[Ignatius of Antioch]].

=== Early life ===

Clarkson was born in [[Fort Worth, Texas|Fort Worth]], [[Texas]] to Stephen Michael Clarkson and Jeanne Ann Rose. Her parents divorced when she was six years old, after which her brother went to live with their father, her sister with their aunt, and Clarkson with her mother. She eventually moved to [[Burleson, Texas]] after fourth grade. In middle school, she was overheard singing in a school corridor by a teacher, who invited her to join the school [[choir]]. Her participation in choral and musical activities spurred her interest in a recording [[career]] and, following her high school graduation, she relocated to [[Los Angeles, California]].

Clarkson worked as an extra on [[television]] (one such appearance was on ''[[Sabrina the Teenage Witch]]'') and worked briefly with songwriter [[Gerry Goffin]]. After her Los Angeles [[apartment]] burned down, however, she moved back to Texas, discouraged but still intent on a career in show business. She still managed some odd jobs such as cocktail waitress, [[Red Bull]] promo girl, and [[Telemarketing|telemarketer]].

::This name change should not have been enacted without a discussion first. I've reverted the changes. —{{User:ASDamick/sig}} 01:31, 20 September 2005 (UTC)

=== ''American Idol'' competition ===

:::Apologies for not dıscussing it fırst but I acted because despıte common usage, it is so obviously wrong. Using the other major search engines, wıth the alternate prefixes of agia and ayia, yield higher results for Sofia. Furthermore, the spelling of the name sofia as a sıngle word is more common then Sophia, usıng any search engine. This may be because of the capital of Bulgaria skewıng the results. But lookıng deeper at that, the city of Sofia also got ıts name from a church wıth the same name, ın the city.

[[Image:Kelly Clarkson.jpg|150px|thumb|right|Clarkson performing on ''Idol'']]

Clarkson auditioned for ''American Idol '' along with ten thousand other people in [[2002]]. Impressed by her performance, the panel of judges put her through to the next round. Upon landing a final thirty spot, Clarkson was praised by the judges for her rendition of [[Aretha Franklin]]'s "[[Respect (Aretha Franklin song)|Respect]]". She moved on to the final ten, receiving a number two spot in her group. Once in the top ten, Clarkson gradually moved into the position of competition favorite, performing songs such as [[Carole King]]'s "(You Make Me Feel Like) A Natural Woman" and [[Bette Midler]]'s "Stuff Like That There".

On [[September 4]] [[2002]], Clarkson won the competition, earning 58% of the audience vote over [[Justin Guarini]], who had previously been leading. As the newly crowned "American Idol", Clarkson performed the ballad "[[A Moment Like This]]". Clarkson, [[Clay Aiken]] of season two and [[Carrie Underwood]] of season four were the only contestants in ''American Idol'' history who succeeded in staying out of the bottom three places in weekly voting results. Clarkson and Underwood both went on to win the competition.

:::Nevertheless, the PH ın the name does stretch the name a bıt, renderıng the pronouncıatıon closer to the orıgınal name ın Greek, as readers saying sofia mıght pronounce ıt as sof-ya, rather than the correct so-phee-a. It ıs still wrong, but arguing over names ıs petty, so do what you want. [[User:Eliasbizannes|Elias Bizannes]] 13:08, 25 September 2005 (UTC)

=== ''Idol'' recording career ===

:::: Common usage is precisely what determines the "right" and "wrong" of spelling in any language. Dictionaries and encyclopedias, after all, simply represent what the consensus is—they can't dictate it. A culture will spell words how it likes, and in this case, English speakers tend to want to spell this subject as ''Hagia Sophia''.

[[Image:Kelly Clarkson Thankful.jpg|left|thumb|200px|''Thankful'' — [[April 15]] [[2003]]]]

:::: One could just as easily argue (probably with more grounds, in fact) that this name shouldn't be spelled with anything but Greek letters, that Latin letters are inherently wrong. —{{User:ASDamick/sig}} 21:35, 25 September 2005 (UTC)

On [[October 5]] [[2002]], Clarkson's first single, "A Moment Like This", broke the record for biggest jump on the charts when it jumped from number fifty-two to number one on the [[Billboard Hot 100]] chart. This broke the long-standing record set by [[The Beatles]] in [[1964]], when "[[Can't Buy Me Love]]" moved from number twenty-seven to number one. "A Moment Like This" was eventually certified gold, selling upwards of 500,000 copies.

I offered to end the argument because I could not be bothered but we can continue if you insist. First of all, using SoPHia implies a cultural bias. Secondly, Hagia Sophia is as common as the other variants, rendering the Wikipedia naming convention of common usage not applicable. Thirdly, if there is no commonly used English name, the convention asks for an accepted transliteration of the name in the original language.

Her first [[Album (music)|album ]] ''[[Thankful]]'' was released by [[RCA Records]] on [[April 15]] [[2003]]. In May 2003 it was certified [[platinum record|double platinum]] by the [[Recording Industry Association of America|RIAA]]. ''Thankful'' also received good reviews, though critics said that much of her success could be credited to the commerciality of the music. Clarkson co-wrote four of the twelve songs on the album.

Sophia is common usage. But so is the alternate spelling of Sofia. (Using other search engines show a smaller gap). The 'common usage' of the term Hagia Sophia is by no means the majority view. Furtehrmore your search engine methodology is distorted, because it takes advantage of the three different spellings of 'Hagia' hence splitting the commonly held view of spelling sofia/sophia. Searching Sofia as a single term is by far more 'common usage'. And using the prefixes of agia and ayia, yield higher results for Sofia.

Songs from the album released as singles include "[[Low (song)|Low]]", which peaked at number fifty-eight in the US, and "[[The Trouble with Love Is]]", which was featured on the [[soundtrack]] of the 2004 film ''[[Love Actually]]''.

Clarkson starred with fellow ''American Idol'' contestant Justin Guarini in ''[[From Justin to Kelly]]'' which was released in the summer of [[2003 in film|2003]]. The film received weak reviews and was a [[box office bomb|box office disaster]]. Some critics named it one of the [[List of movies that have been cited as being among the worst ever made|worst movies ever made]]. The two stars revealed that their work in the film was stipulated in their ''Idol'' contracts.

If "English speakers tend to want to spell this subject as ''Hagia Sophia''" why is it there are so many different types of spellings with no dominant and majority view? Despite your attempts to represent the Crusade for how English speakers REALLY want to spell things, the answer to my question is because transliteration is opinion. Opinion is not fact. And in our case, there is not single common usage.

In September 2003, Clarkson appeared [[NBC]]'s ''[[American Dreams]]'' as [[Brenda Lee]], performing "Sweet Nothings".

On a direct Greek-to-Latin translation it is 'Agia Sofia' with the 'g' open to interpretation because there is no direct latin character equivilant. The sound is a mix between Y and G. For that reason, I don't argue about Hagia/agia/ayia and leave it to linguists more intelligent than me. But what justification is there to spell it as Sophia rather than Sofia? soPHia is a western european interpretation - the same guys that bagged out anything to do with the Byzantine Empire up until recently. I am not going to go into that, but people who know about Byzantine hisory know it has been distorted. And the spelling implies a cultural bias - like the cultural bias of the Byzantine empire. Whilst English is a western European language, the English encyclopedia is transnational. Seeing as the PH sound is exactly the same as the F sound, why insist on PH, when F is closer to the truth?

In December 2003, Clarkson participated in the ''[[World Idol]]'' competition. She placed second to Norwegian Idol winner [[Kurt Nilsen]].

Because of the distortion of the search results with the first word, shouldn't we be using common usage for 'sofia' instead? Given the games Google is currently playing with its 'guess how many pages we can index' it may be more accurate to rely on the other engines15:52, 28 September 2005 (UTC)

In [[Grammy Awards of 2004|2004]], Clarkson received a nomination for the [[Grammy Award for Best Female Pop Vocal Performance|Best Female Pop Vocal Performance]] [[Grammy Awards|Grammy]] for her edgy top-ten hit single "[[Miss Independent]]". It was co-written by [[Christina Aguilera]] and Clarkson.

== dates ==

Later in 2004, Clarkson embarked on the thirty-city "Independent Tour" with fellow ''Idol'' contestant [[Clay Aiken]].

'''Hagia Sofia''', according to my information, was consecrated by Emperor Justinian in December [[563]]. This does not quite fit with the construction dates in the main page. Does anyone have more accurate information? 203.79.72.140

=== Solo career established ===

: I wouldn't think any emperor would do the actual consecration; that should have been done by a bishop or patriarch. According to [http://www.patriarchate.org/ecumenical_patriarchate/chapter_4/html/hagia_sophia.html this web site], "on December 27, 537, Patriarch Menas consecrated the magnificent church." That date is also confirmed [http://www.bialystok.telbank.pl/orthodox/en/hagia.htm here]. That also says that Hagia Sofia was actually the third temple at that ___location, and the work done in the 530s was a rebuilding from the foundations. [[user:Wesley|Wesley]]

[[Image:Breakaway.jpg|thumb|right|200px|''Breakaway'' — [[November 30]] [[2004]]]]

On [[November 30]] [[2004]], RCA Records released Clarkson's second album ''[[Breakaway (album)|Breakaway]]''. Entering the Billboard album chart at number three, ''Breakaway'' received praise from critics, who noted its harder, more [[rock and roll|rock]]-flavored edge, one that invited comparisons to [[Avril Lavigne]]. The album has also been characterized by Clarkson herself as being in the [[pop rock]] genre.

:: Your evidence looks good to me. The reference I have (a guidebook) is that on Christmas Eve, 563, Justinian ''inaugurated' the Church. (in the last months of his reign). [[user:Vignaux|Vignaux]]

Clarkson took a more hands-on approach to creating ''Breakaway'', co-writing six of the eleven tracks in the process. Producers and fellow artists also helped Clarkson craft the album, some of which include [[Max Martin]] ("Since U Been Gone", "Behind These Hazel Eyes"), Avril Lavigne ("Breakaway"), and former [[Evanescence]] band members Ben Moody and David Hodges ("Because of You", "Addicted").

:: First off, in English we use 'church' rather than 'temple' for Orthodox, Catholic, and most Protestant worship buildings.

''Breakaway's'' first four singles, "[[Breakaway (song)|Breakaway]]", "[[Since U Been Gone]]", "[[Behind These Hazel Eyes]]" and "[[Because of You (Kelly Clarkson song)|Because of You]]", have all received widespread airplay in several different radio formats and reached the [[Billboard Hot 100]] top-ten, peaking at number six, number two, number six and number seven, respectively. "Because of You" became ''Breakaway'''s third number one mainstream radio hit in the U.S. following "Breakaway" and "Since U Been Gone". The song is also currently ranked at number six in Canada and number 8 in the U.S..

:: Second, Constantine built a Hagia Sophia in the 320s - it was a basilical church, shaped and decorated much like St. Paul's Outside the Walls in Rome (like the 4th century church of St. Peter's and the 4th century Church of St. John Lateran, too, but the first of those was replaced and the second so remodeled you can't tell). Constantine's H.S. was burned in the Nike Riot of 532. The initial rebuilding (in the present form) was complete by 537. The central dome collapsed about 20 years later and was rebuilt. That's where the 563 comes from - so it wasn't consecrated, but re-consecrated (if that). [[user:MichaelTinkler|MichaelTinkler]]

On October 22, 2005, she became the first pop artist in five years to have four top 10 hits off one album.

::: Thanks for the additional history. In my very limited time in the Orthodox Church in America, it's been my experience that buildings are typically called 'chapel', 'temple', or 'cathedral', by native speakers of English. Sometimes 'church' is used as well. Is there any particular reason why the sentence about the mosaics on the floor being uncovered was deleted? Was that thought to be inaccurate or irrelevant? Seems relevant to me, if true. [[User:Wesley|Wesley]]

[[Image:Behind These Hazel Eyes.jpg|154px|thumb|left|"Behind These Hazel Eyes" CD single cover]]

:::: The sentence about the mosaics on the floor being uncovered was not deleted, it was just moved to chronological order. [[User:Hephaestos|Hephaestos]]

Industry experts noted that Clarkson had avoided the "sophomore slump", and that the artistic and commercial success of the album and its singles cemented Clarkson's place in the pop music industry, separate from the ''American Idol'' machine. ''Breakaway'' has proved to have staying power. Eleven months after its release, it has not left the top-twenty.

In [[2005]] Clarkson was a musical guest on ''[[Saturday Night Live]]'' and acted in two sketches. Clarkson was also named by [[People (magazine)|Teen People Magazine]] as one of the "Hottest 25 Stars Under 25".

::: Really? I've walked by a church just east of Lake Calhoun in Minneapolis on which a conspicuous sign says "Saint Mary's Greek Orthodox Church". I think it says that on their web site too. In ''My Big Fat Greek Wedding'' the sign on the church said "Greek Orthodox Church" (I think it was preceeded by a name). And when a church across the street from the World Trade Center was nearly (or totally?) destroyed on 9/11/2001, it was identified in a newspaper article I read about it as being a "Greek Orthodox Church" and its priest was quoted as saying something about "my church". Could it be that your experience of Russian-affiliated churches has exposed you to language different from that of Greek-affiliated ones? [[User:Michael Hardy|Michael Hardy]] 02:45 Jan 14, 2003 (UTC)

By July 2005 Clarkson is the top-selling ''American Idol'' contestant and the only one having released two mainstream CDs. ''Breakaway'' has so far sold 3.9 million copies domestically (certified 4 times-platinum by the [[Recording Industry Association of America|RIAA]] on [[November]] [[2005]]).

:::: I think that a variety of uses can be found. For instance, in this list of OCA parishes in Alaska (http://www.oca.org/pages/directory/list_results.asp?___location=AK&B1=Submit), you can see the names of various parishes ending with Church, Mission, Deanery, Chapel, Cathedral, and even Community. Looking for Greek Orthodox parishes in California turned up mostly Churches, but also a few Chapels and Cathedrals: http://www.goarch.org/en/parishes/ParishSearch.asp?parish=&clergy=&State=CA&city=&SearchRadius=15&SearchZip=&Diocese=&btnSubmit.x=51&btnSubmit.y=12&offset=10. When it comes to stuff like this, it's not surprising to find a variety of sorts of names in use. But you're right in that there doesn't seem to be any special effort to avoid calling the place a "Church", and to keep this relevant, it looks like the place in question was called the ''Church of Hagia Sophia''. [[User:Wesley|Wesley]] 16:12 16 Jul 2003 (UTC)

In August, Clarkson won several [[Teen Choice Award|Teen Choice Awards]] and [[Video Music Awards|MTV Video Music Awards]].

Despite having bronchitis, Clarkson appeared on ''ReAct Now: Music & Relief'', a live performance broadcast on [[Viacom]]'s networks MTV, VH1 and CMT on [[September 10]] [[2005]]. The program raised funds for the [[American Red Cross]] and the victims of [[Hurricane Katrina]]. Clarkson performed a cover of [[Ray LaMontagne]]'s "Shelter".

::: Being Greek it is my understanding that the best word to use is church. A Greek orthodox "building" of any kind would certainly never be called a cathedral. It is to my best knowledge a word used by every other christian dogma than Orthodoxes for reasons unfortunately not known to me. Communities and missions might have a greek translation but not meaning a church and rather a mission in it's original meaning in English. You could call the really small churches chapels. The original Greek word is 'ekklisia' which is ancient greek and means gathering-in this case as it has been used in christian times, gathering of the people to worship god. In classical Greece and namely in the democratic Athens ekklisia tou dimou (gathering of the citizens) was their means for commonly deciding matters. It is obvious that the popoulation was less!

== Personal life and persona ==

::: And by the way tha Ayia Sofia is really magnificent. I've been there and so should every one else.

Clarkson has a well-known conservative reputation, which is considered unusual by typical "Hollywood" standards. Clarkson's personal relationships are rarely outspoken, although some past love interests have sparked curiosity among fans and media outlets everywhere. While giving her acceptance speech for Best Female Video at the MTV Video Music Awards on [[August 28]], [[2005]], Clarkson briefly thanked her beau in the crowd, essentially confirming a rumor that she was in a new relationship. It's revealed later that her new beau is [[Graham Colton]], the lead singer of the Texas-based [[Graham Colton Band]], the opening band for her 2005 summer tour.

::: Hoping to have enlightened you. Gerasimos

Clarkson is known for her bond with her fans, with whom she goes out of her way to meet and talk. Once on her ''Breakaway Tour'', she was sick after a show in [[Chicago]]. Instead of cancelling the meet-and-greet afterward, as many artists would do, she went through with it and even apologized to her fans for not being able to talk much to them.

:::: A ''cathedral'' is a church where the head priest is a [[bishop]]. If the Hagia Sophia was used by the bishop of Constantinople, then it is a cathedral. [[User:David.Monniaux|David.Monniaux]] 07:11, 7 May 2004 (UTC)

Clarkson has also had her share of minor controversy, such as allegations that her work doing demos for a record company broke ''American Idol'' rules about not having a contract with a record company. However, she was cleared of all allegations, having only had a contract to do demonstration work. Later as what some saw as poor sportsmanship on her part during the ''World Idol'' competition when she realized she was not going to win; she would instead earn second place.

== a may 7 anniversary ==

According to a fall 2005 issue of Pop-Star, Clarkson has written a song called "Haunted" based on a real life experience. "But it's not about me," she says. "It's about a friend of mine. We went to high school together and she committed suicide about a year after we graduated. She was a very cool girl. It's always the people you'd never expect. I would have never thought that."

''An event mentioned in this article is a [[MediaWiki:May 7 selected anniversaries|May 7 selected anniversary]]'' (may be in HTML comment) --[[User:Maveric149]] 08:28, May 3, 2004 (UTC)

== Tours ==

== illustration Blue Mosque ==

'''2002: The ''American Idol'' Tour'''

Why in the world is an article on the Hagia Sophia illustrated with a picture of the interior of the Blue Mosque? Why is that image there at all? --[[User:Delirium|Delirium]] 23:16, May 7, 2004 (UTC)

* 28-City U.S. Tour (October - November 2002)

** Two-month arena tour starring Kelly and the other ''American Idol'' finalists.

'''2004: The Independent Tour, co-headlining with Clay Aiken'''

== translation ==

* 30-City U.S. Tour (February - April 2004)

* The final show in [[St. Paul, Minnesota]] on April 16, 2004, featured the acoustic performance of a new song entitled "Don't", written by Clarkson and her band's lead guitarist Danny Weissfeld during the tour. "Don't" also became a part of the regular set list throughout the ''Breakaway'' tour, and is rumored to appear on Clarkson's third studio album.

'''2005: The ''Breakaway'' Spring Tour'''

I changed this part, because I don't think it's true:

* 35-City U.S. / Canada Tour (March–May 2005)

:''Αγια Σοφια in Greek that means "Holy Wisdom", not "Saint Sophia" except in mistranslation''

* The ''Breakaway'' Tour is Clarkson's most successful to date, selling-out the majority of venues in its 35-city run.

It can mean either, as ''Άγια'' means ''holy'' and ''Σοφία'' is both ''wisdom'' and a Greek name that derives from the word ''wisdom''. Therefore ''[[Saint Sophia]]'' is written in [[Greek language|Greek]] as ''Άγια Σοφία''. Now whether the church was intended to be named after Wisdom, after St. Sophia, or after both, is another matter, but the translation itself is not incorrect. --[[User:Delirium|Delirium]] 22:25, Jun 12, 2004 (UTC)

'''2005: The Hazel Eyes Summer Tour'''

== I object to this statement ==

* Dates are currently scheduled throughout the US and Canada, the forty-six-city tour ran from [[July 6]] opening in Lubbock, TX and ended in New York, NY on [[October 11]].

*The [[July 17]] [[Orlando, Florida]] concert was [[webcast]] live on [[AOL]]. A key thematic moment in her concerts is her rendition of [[Annie Lennox]]'s 1992 hit, "Why", which she introduces as her favorite song. The 70-minute show features frequent sing-alongs from the audience and expressions of gratitude from Clarkson. There are rock arrangements to most songs, with an [[a cappella]] "Beautiful Disaster" and a two-[[acoustic guitar]]-only shambolic "Breakaway".

*Due to popular demand, "Hear Me" was added to the tour set list after Clarkson was, as she put it, "hated on" during the ''Breakaway'' Tour for not performing this song at any of her shows.

* The Hazel Eyes Tour features a new song called "Come Here" which is, according to Clarkson, "probably going to be on the next record".

*Several venues were cancelled, due to Clarkson contracting bronchitis and walking pneumonia. She will return in December to finish up her Hazel Eyes Tour. Currently scheduled stops are in Texas, California, Nevada and Washington.

'''2005: The ''Breakaway'' World Tour'''

"This means that Muslims do not have to confront Christian imagery in the main chamber of the building, which was a mosque for nearly 500 years."

*In a June 2005 radio interview on [[Capital FM]] in London, Clarkson mentioned that she would begin planning a world tour that will visit Australia, Asia, and Europe, after finishing ''The Hazel Eyes Tour'' in the U.S.

*The ''Breakaway'' World Tour began on Friday [[November 4]], 2005, at the [[Challenge Stadium]] in [[Perth, Western Australia|Perth, Australia]]. Her final show in Australia and both New Zealand dates have been postponed due to vocal strain. This may affect her return to the United States to finish up her Hazel Eyes tour. She is scheduled to head to the British Isles beginning February 17th in Manchester, UK. New dates are announced regularly, but may be pushed back due to Clarkson's current sickness.

It is an opinion and has nothing to do with Hagia Sophia.

== Discography ==

It is not an opinion, it is a perfectly factual statement. [[User:Adam Carr|Adam]] 09:23, 13 May 2005 (UTC)

=== Albums ===

Here is my take about this "crap" : Last time I've been to Ayasofya I don't remember paying anything to go up the stairs.

* [[2003]]: ''[[Thankful]]'' — '''#1''' US (1 week, 2x Platinum); '''#1''' CAN (1 week, Platinum); #30 AUS (Gold); #52 UK

But even IF I had to pay (it's a museum, they may decide to charge if they want) it would not mean that muslims are spared of

* [[2004]]: ''[[Breakaway (album)|Breakaway]]'' — #3 US (4x Platinum); #6 CAN (3x Platinum); #2 AUS (3x Platinum); #5 NZ (2x Platinum); #6 UK (Platinum); South Africa (Platinum); Ireland (Platinum); Singapore (Gold); Indonesia (Gold) - over 5.5 million worldwide

pictures of a guy who died 2000 years ago. The cause and effect of this sentence is a bit weird don't you think: "you have to

** ''[[Breakaway (album)|Breakaway]]'' was re-released in Australia on [[November 7]] [[2005]]. The re-release contains a second disc, including remixes, live tracks and music videos.

pay to go up, so this means muslims don't have to see pictures" ??? If people don't want to see a picture of a saint, then they don't climb upstairs, even if it's free. The sentence in the article sounds like by making it fee-based, they

*** There has recently been talk of re-releasing ''[[Breakaway (album)|Breakaway]]'' in the United States. There have been several descriptions and several release dates from major retailers, and nothing has been confirmed as of yet by RCA or by Clarkson.

spare muslims or something. I don't even understand what this sentence is trying to tell. Hence, it's a total bullcrap in short. I propose to remove it. I am also not comfortable with other things in the article, but this one is totally stupid, besides the fact that it's POV which doesn't belong here.

=== Singles ===

: It's not POV -- it's conjecture. It's perhaps not written in the clearest fashion, but the conjecture is that only icons in the upper galleries are being uncovered, so as not to offend the iconoclastic doctries of Islam. --{{User:ASDamick/sig}} 19:23, Jun 6, 2005 (UTC)

[[Image:Kelly Clarkson - A Moment Like This CD cover.jpg|150 px|thumb|right|"A Moment Like This"<br>CD single cover]]

*from ''Thankful''

:: There's a little difference btw. conjecture and POV. Here's my conjecture: the mosaics and

** 2002: "[[A Moment Like This]]" &mdash; '''#1''' US (2 weeks;(US Certification: '''Gold'''); '''#1''' CAN (2 weeks; (CAN Certification: '''2x Platinum''')

icons are being uncovered starting from top to allow for maximum amount of visiting time.

*** Released in the US as a [[double A-side]] with "Before Your Love"

Had they started from bottom, nobody could visit the museum. How about this? In 21st century,

** 2003: "[[Miss Independent]]" &mdash; #9 (US Certification: '''Gold'''); #6 CAN; #6 UK; #3 AUS (Gold)

Turks do not care much about the "iconoclastic doctrines". I propose to remove the conjecture. Also, please see below about restorations.

** 2003: "[[Low (song)|Low]]" &mdash; #58 US; #2 CAN; #11 AUS

** 2003: "[[The Trouble with Love Is]]" &mdash; #35 UK; #11 AUS

*** Released in the UK as a double A-side with "Low"

*from ''Breakaway''

::: Update: the following photo was taken in Dec. 2004, showing the entrance. So much for your conjecture. You can reach this photo from the link in the article.

** 2004: "[[Breakaway (song)|Breakaway]]" &mdash; #6 (US Certification: '''2x Platinum'''); #3 CAN; #10 (AUS Certification: '''Gold'''); #12 NZ

http://www.pbase.com/dosseman/image/37894800

** 2004: "[[Since U Been Gone]]" &mdash; #2 (US Certification: '''4x Platinum'''); '''#1''' CAN (2 weeks); #5 UK; #3 (AUS Certification: '''Platinum'''); '''#1''' SA (3 weeks); #4 IRL; '''#1''' CHI; #6 GER; #11 NZ; #7 SWZ

** 2005: "[[Behind These Hazel Eyes]]" &mdash; #6 (US Certification: '''Platinum'''); #4 CAN; #9 UK; #6 AUS; #5 CHI; #16 SA

** 2005: "[[Because of You (Kelly Clarkson song)|Because of You]]" &mdash; #7 US; #5 CAN

== RestorationsUK chart performance ==

Regarding the discussions about restoration, please read the following documents and modify

the article appropriately. The building was NOT "allowed to decay".

Following the trend of several previous American artists, Clarkson's album dropped in the United States before hitting the United Kingdom as well as the rest of Europe, as success in the UK tends to reflect success in the rest of Europe.

http://www.islamicarchitecture.org/architecture/hagia.sophia.mosque.html

http://www2.arch.uiuc.edu/research/rgouster/hagiasophia/hs.html

http://archnet.org/library/sites/one-site.tcl?site_id=2966

http://www.unesco.org/archi2000/pdf/ozil.pdf

Clarkson's first single released in the U.K. was "Miss Independent", which reached the top ten. However when she released her debut album, ''Thankful'', it did poorly on the charts, as did her singles "Low" and "The Trouble with Love Is". However she came back with "Since U Been Gone", which reached number five, and stayed a further eight weeks in the top ten. It is currently in the top fifty after nearly half a year. The second single, "Behind These Hazel Eyes," also reached the top ten, and is now in the top twenty.

----

Her second album, ''Breakaway'', reached number six, and is currently in the top ten; it has been certified platinum. Clarkson is the first American female to reach a peak that high since [[Britney Spears]]' ''Greatest Hits'' album. Clarkson has had more sucess than many other US female pop acts, and is currently the only American female to have a album in the top twenty.

I don't dispute that the Christian mosaic above the entrance is visible as shown in the photo, but nevertheless I was told by a Turkish tour guide in 2002 that the reason the majority of the Christian mosaics in the main (ground floor) body of the church had not been uncovered is that this would offend Muslims, since the building was a mosque for 500 years. [[User:Adam Carr|Adam]] 05:15, 7 Jun 2005 (UTC)

She is tenth on the list of Christmas favorites, behind some of the U.K.'s biggest artists: [[Coldplay]], [[Robbie Williams]], [[Westlife]], [[Girls Aloud]], and [[Sugababes]].

: Well, unfortunately there are enough idiots in Turkey as well as in any country and some of them are tour guides for a living. Or maybe he wasn't able to communicate properly, the mosaics were covered as long as the museum was a mosque obviously, but christian mosaics doesn't offend anybody today. Also, if you go through links I provided in restoration above, you'll see that one of the purposes of the restorations was to preserve the different periods of history of Hagia Sophia, and different modifications done to it throughout history. It would offend me if they had gotten rid of everything done to it since 1453, because it is certainly a part of its history and in a museum you should preserve every period. Right now, you can see the influences of different periods in a balanced way.

==Videography==

:: Is it really necessary or helpful to characterize other editors' sources as "idiots"? One would at least hope that a person making such a characterization could be bothered to register for a Wikipedia account rather than appearing only behind the semi-anonymous mask of a mere IP address. --{{User:ASDamick/sig}} 19:15, Jun 8, 2005 (UTC)

*from ''Thankful''

::: Remaining anonymous is a choice, which shouldn't bother you at all. "sources" is a sensitive subject, citing people's opinions on the street hardly constitutes an objective source. I at least bothered to find objective sources on the internet and listed them instead of writing my own (or somebody else's) opinion. Anybody who's offended by a saint's picture in an old church (or islamic art in an old mosque) is an idiot in my book, and that's my opinion, which I didn't put in the article.

{| class="wikitable"

:::: Yes, but you did put it in what ought to be a well-mannered discussion between editors. Additionally, the URLs you posted had no bearing on the question of why the mosaics have been uncovered in the particular way they have. What if others simply characterized your sources as being those of idiots? After all, just because something is on the Internet doesn't make it either objective or accurate.

|- bgcolor="#CCCCCC"

! Date !! Video !! Director !! [[Total Request Live|TRL]] Stats !! Notes

|-

| September 2002 || "Before Your Love" || Antti Jokinen || 13 days <br> (1 at #1) || Kelly's first official video, featured and world premiered on MTV's [[Making the Video]].

|-

| October 2002 || "A Moment Like This" || Antti Jokinen || 19 days <br> (1 at #1) || Features clips of Clarkson's winning moment on ''American Idol''.

|-

| May 2003 || "Miss Independent" || Liz Friedlander || 50 days <br> (14 at #1) || Nominated for [[MTV Video Music Award for Best New Artist|Best New Artist in a Video]], [[MTV Video Music Award for Best Pop Video|Best Pop Video]], and [[MTV Video Music Award - Viewer's Choice|Viewer's Choice]] at the 2003 MTV Video Music Awards.

Clarkson's first video to be [[TRL retired videos|retired]] from the ''[[Total Request Live|TRL]]'' countdown.

:::: In any event, I can't say that I put very much stock in the opinions of someone who won't even register for an account and then acts in such a fashion. You even followed me to my weblog and posted an anonymous comment there, as well. I can't say that I find it altogether worthwhile to try to work on this article with you. --{{User:ASDamick/sig}} 20:50, Jun 8, 2005 (UTC)

|-

| August 2003 || "Low" || Antti Jokinen || 26 days <br> (4 at #1) || First video to feature Clarkson singing with a live band.

|-

| November 2003 || "The Trouble with Love Is" || Bryan Barber || 22 days <br> (0 at #1) || Soundtrack video for [[Love Actually|''Love Actually'']]

|}

*from ''Breakaway''

::::: If you look at my sources you'll see that they are at least either on university or professional web sites. I have no idea why they started from top, you don't either, that's why we shouldn't put any comments on that in the article. What is a fact today is that a lot of mosaics are uncovered, both at the top and at the bottom, and as I said before, the idea is to preserve all periods, not just one.

{| class="wikitable"

::::: Yes I posted something on your weblog, which was my opinion on the subject, and I don't know why you have a problem with that, you made your weblog public but you can remove my comment from it if you want. Being anonymous is my choice and you have to respect that, whether you want to work on any article in wikipedia is your choice. If you decide to work on anything, the least you got to do is to be as objective as you can and think twice before putting something in an article that is baseless and will infuriate people for that reason. This article is far from being perfect, I will read more and try to contribute to it if I have time in future, but I am not planning to respond to your comments, unless they are related to facts.

|- bgcolor="#CCCCCC"

! Date !! Video !! Director !! [[Total Request Live|TRL]] Stats !! [[VH1]] Stats !! Notes

|-

| July 2004 || "Breakaway" || Dave Meyers || 23 days <br> (0 at #1) || 7 weeks <br> (0 at #1) || Soundtrack video for [[The Princess Diaries 2: Royal Engagement|''The Princess Diaries 2: Royal Engagement'']]

|-

| November 2004 || "Since U Been Gone" || Alex De Rakoff || 43 days <br> (6 at #1) || 14 weeks <br> (1 at #1) || Won for [[MTV Video Music Award for Best Female Video|Best Female Video]] and [[MTV Video Music Award for Best Pop Video|Best Pop Video]] at the 2005 MTV Video Music Awards.

Video was produced by [[Santa Monica]]-based production company [http://www.fmrocks.com/ FM Rocks].

::::: Like many Turks, I am sick and tired of people who pay couple of visits to Turkey and start thinking of themselves as some kind of an expert. I may have used a few words that are not polite, but I am very frustrated about some of the stuff people write in wikipedia articles about Turkey, it is one thing to "bend" the truth, it's a totally different thing to write something that is plain wrong. These articles should not be about opinions, but facts, and that requires little more effort than just citing a tour guide. After all, I have lived a big part of my life in Turkey, but I still refer to reputable sources when I modify a wikipedia article about Turkey. And I hope this is the end of this little strayed discussion.

|-

| May 2005 || "Behind These Hazel Eyes" || Joseph Kahn || 50 days <br> (33 at #1) || 11 weeks <br> (0 at #1) ||

Clarkson is credited with writing the complete original [[Film treatment|treatment]] for the video,<br>which underwent very few edits and was happily executed by director Joseph Kahn.

The exterior forest scenes for "Behind These Hazel Eyes" were done in one of the largest indoor sets ever built for a music video.

All interior gothic cathedral scenes were filmed in Ontario, Canada.

:::::: Well, at least you have stated your bias forthrightly, i.e., that you are representing a Turkish POV. For that, at least, we can be grateful. --{{User:ASDamick/sig}} 21:48, Jun 8, 2005 (UTC)

Set a record on ''TRL'' for the most days at number one by a solo female artist.

::::::: Everybody represents their own POV, you, as a devoted Christian, represent your own POV too. I do not, however, include my POV in any article, hence I stand corrected.

Clarkson's second video to be retired from the TRL countdown, and also her first video to be retired internationally (TRL Poland).

What the tour guide said was not that uncovering the mosaics would offend ''Turks'', but that it would offend ''Muslims''. There are other Muslims in the world beside Turks. The guide was not an idiot. As a historian I had a long talk with him about Greek and Turkish history and asked him quite difficult questions, and he was a very intelligent and well-informed person. If I have to choose between his opinion and that of an abusive anonymous editor here on why the mosaics have not all been uncovered, I will choose his, thanks. And I am not a Christian by the way. [[User:Adam Carr|Adam]] 01:41, 9 Jun 2005 (UTC)

|-

| September 2005 || "Because of You" || Vadim Perelman || 30 days <br> (19 at #1) || 6 Weeks<br> (3 at #1) || Filmed in Irvine, California.

The video "Because of You" marks the second time that Clarkson has submitted her own treatment for a video.

: I did offer an alternate explanation, if you read correctly what I wrote. "It WOULD OFFEND ME if they had gotten rid of everything SINCE 1453" and "EVERY period should be presented in a museum". If a structure is used as a mosque for 500 years, of course you don't want to uncover everything at the expense of islamic art. I am NOT abusive, I am trying to make a point, whether you want to accept or not. I do not understand why being anonymous lessens the value of contribution, had I had a name, would that put more weight on my point? By the way, my comment about being a good christian was to ASDamick, not to you. He was the one to stretch this discussion to places which had nothing to do with my point, and I'm afraid nobody gets my point, so be it.

World Premiered on ''TRL'' on Monday, [[October 3]] [[2005]].

== Discussion of "de-Islamized image" ==

"Because of You" became Kelly's first video to debut at number one on ''TRL'', a feat accomplished only by a handful of artists.

:''[[User:Lectiodifficilior|Lectiodifficilior]] is moving this discussion from his talk page and from his revert explanation.''

Number one on Yahoo Music's Top 100 Videos

'''The edit:''' User [[User:CristianChirita]] added the image and text to the right. [[Image:Hagia Sophia BW.jpg|right|thumb|350px|Artistic representation]]

|}

'''Revert explanation:''' [[User:Lectiodifficilior|Lectiodifficilior]] removed the image with ''rv; we are not putting a "religiously cleansed" image—all muslim traces photoshopped out—on top. Good grief the POV''

==Filmography==

'''Talk message from [[User:Lectiodifficilior|Lectiodifficilior]] to [[User:CristianChirita]]''':

*2002: ''Issues 101'' - Crystal

The image you posted is not an "Artistic Representation" it's a "cleansed" representation, with all Muslim elements removed. This is the very definition of POV, akin to Photoshopping the Dome of the Rock from Jerusalem, or NYC from Manhattan. I also wonder about its copyright status. I saw that image somewhere once, and I did not have the impression if was GLFD. [[User:Lectiodifficilior|Lectiodifficilior]]

*2003: ''[[From Justin to Kelly]]''

== Chart accomplishments ==

'''Response by [[User:CristianChirita]]''':

* Biggest jump to number one with "A Moment Like this" (from fifty-two). Broke the previous record held by [[The Beatles]] (from twenty-seven with "Can't Buy Me Love").

1.Yes indeed the image I've posted is an "Artistic Representation" with a "cleansed" representation, with all Muslim elements removed. I don't consider the umage as POV because was a time when the image of church was looking in this way. It is not something fantastic but an artistic representation of the church before the muslim coquest. I don't think that a recostruction of an image hurt someones feelings.I also wonder about its copyright status: the image is declared PD on orthodoxwiki , the te link on the image page.

* First solo artist to hold number-one positions on two U.S. Billboard charts simultaneously with two different singles:

** "Breakaway" &mdash; number one, Adult Contemporary

** "Since U Been Gone" &mdash; number one, Top 40

* First artist to have two songs in the top three of the Billboard Pop Airplay 100 simultaneously, with "Since U Been Gone" and "Behind These Hazel Eyes".

* "Breakaway" was number one on the Adult Contemporary charts for twenty-one non-consecutive weeks (twenty of these being consecutive), tied for the longest run for a female artist with [[Céline Dion]] (Kelly's own idol) and her song "A New Day Has Come".

* "Since U Been Gone" is currently the song with the second most number of digital downloads ever with over 900.000 downloads. Only Gwen Stefani's "Hollaback Girl" has more digital downloads of over 1.000.000.

* The "Behind These Hazel Eyes" video currently holds the record of the longest number of days at #1 on TRL by a female artist.

* "Because Of You" debuted #1 on TRL. This feature has only been done by a handful of artists.

==Awards and nominations==

Considering the history of the church I don't think taht the reconstruction will hurt muslim feeling, because they must be very proud that the church was preserved almoust 100%.

[[Image:kelly vma05.jpg|175px|thumb|right|Kelly accepting her award for Best Female Video at the 2005 MTV Video Music Awards]]

Q: How can you picture a former Orthodox Greek church? please reconsider the POV, is interesting from historic point of view, and remember that the church was protected and preserved when the Constantinopole fall. [[User:CristianChirita|CristianChirita]] 07:12, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)

'''[[American Music Awards]]'''

* 2005: Nominated - Favorite Pop/Rock Female Artist

* 2005: Nominated - Favorite Pop/Rock Album

* 2005: '''Won''' - Favorite Adult Contemporary Artist

* 2005: '''Won''' - T-Mobile Text-In Award (Artist of the Year) (''Voted by the fans, regardless of music genre'')

** '''The 2005 American Music Awards aired November 22, 2005 on [[American Broadcasting Company|ABC]].'''

* 2003: Nominated - Best New Pop/Rock Artist

'''ASCAP Pop Music Awards'''

'''Response by [[User:Lectiodifficilior|Lectiodifficilior]]''':

* 2004: '''Won''' - Song Writer Award (''Kelly Clarkson & Rhett Lawrence - Miss Independent'')

'''AOL Awards'''

Whenever I've seen those images, it has been in decidedly POV contexts. For example, [http://www.byzantines.net/epiphany/hagiasophia.htm#fn_04 this page] has two examples of the genre, together with a lot of spleen directed at the "heathen Turk." Notably, the representations are not of the church ''as it was'', but ''as it should be'' or at least in some alternate-reality universe ("Hagia Sophia idealized," "the cross restored", "as it might appear today"). I at least get the unsettling feeling that an "idealized" Istanbul street scene would include mass graves for all the Turks. Similarly, I found image you are posting on an ''extremely'' POV site [http://www.new-byzantium.org/KrkstsCnstpl.html here], together with the minarets ''reassembled'' together. The site writes:

* 2005: '''Won''' - Best Musical Buddy

* 2004: '''Won''' - Hottest Song (''The Trouble with Love Is'')

'''BDS Certified Spin Award'''

[[Image:Minarets.jpg|right|thumb|The "other half" of the image; the minarets reassembled somewhere else]]

* 2003: '''Won''' - 50,000 Spins (''Low'')

'''[[Billboard Music Awards]]'''

<div style="padding:15px;">"The Christian reader will observe that the four minarets that attempt to stifle the dignified and pious elegance of Hagia Sophia have here been removed and bundled. They were erected in defiance of and as an affront to Christianity. The land upon which they were constructed was usurped.<br>It is suggested that with due care and deference the columns be disassembled by pieces in numerical order and returned to their interested owners for legitimate relocation other than to sites of Christian worship."</div>

* 2005: Nominated - Hot 100 Song Of The Year (''Since U Been Gone'')

* 2005: Nominated - Digital Song Of The Year (''Since U Been Gone'')

* 2005: Nominated - Artist Of The Year

** '''The 2005 Billboard Music Awards airs December 6, 2005 on [[Fox Broadcasting Company|FOX]].'''

* 2002: '''Won''' - Best Selling Single Of The Year (''A Moment Like This'')

'''[[Grammy awards|Grammy Awards]]'''

(The image, on the right, is placed here on the doctrine of fair use, which allows even copyrighted images to be used in the service of commentary and criticism. I have my doubts about the PD nature of these two images.)

* 2004: Nominated - Best Female Pop Vocal Performance (''Miss Independent'')

'''[[Video Music Awards|Latin Video Music Awards]]'''

I think both the text and the companion image demonstrate conclusively that it is intended to show Hagia Sophia as it ''should be'' not as it was. Thus, in origin, the image is POV.

* 2005: Nominated - Best International Pop Artist

* 2005: Nominated - Best New International Artist

'''[[Video Music Awards|MTV Video Music Awards]]'''

Origin aside, is it still useful as a way to picture the church "as it was"? I don't think so. If you tell the reader the minarets are added (that would be a good addition to the picture caption), how much trouble is he really going to have picturing it? It should also be noted that a number of other minor architectural features are also of post 1453 origin, mostly there to shore up the edifice against falling down.

* 2005: '''Won''' - Best Female Video (''Since U Been Gone'')

* 2005: '''Won''' - Best Pop Video (''Since U Been Gone'')

* 2005: Nominated - Viewer's Choice Award (''Since U Been Gone'')

* 2003: Nominated - Best New Artist In A Video (''Miss Independent'')

* 2003: Nominated - Best Pop Video (''Miss Independent'')

* 2003: Nominated - Viewer's Choice Award (''Miss Independent'')

'''New Music Weekly Awards'''

Lastly, if we're going to admit this image, I vote we also admit one of the Fossati brothers' pictures of Hagia Sophia/Aya Sofya operating as a mosque, with the lamps, carpets, wooden dividers and etc. This would achive NPOV by balance. [[User:Lectiodifficilior|Lectiodifficilior]] 15:16, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)

* 2004: '''Won''' - Female Artist Of The Year

:Side note: The current image isn't so good. It's all trees and minarets. I don't think this is a POV issue—a tree-hugging Muslim perhaps? But it would be nice to get something that shows more of the structure. [[User:Lectiodifficilior|Lectiodifficilior]]

* 2004: '''Won''' - Top 40 Single Of The Year (''Miss Independent'')

I'm not insisting in putting the image. I've my opinion that the image of the church how it was it is important. We agree to disagree. If you consider the religios considerations there will be a never ending discussion. But if you are interested of how the work was performed, then the image is interesting. And considering the quality of the two picture I must confess that the building with minarets is more beautifull. And the most important thing is that erasing the images from wiki is not solving the issue, letting the image on the discussion page and explaining why it is POV is solving the situation.

[[User:CristianChirita|CristianChirita]] 20:24, 26 Jun 2005 (UTC)

'''Radio Music Awards'''

I agree to agree to disagree. I don't like the provinance of that image, but I don't object in principle to a "reconstruction" image, particularly if the mosque interior is also presented. Sorry not to get back sooner. I was hoping others might have feelings on this topic. Even if we can agree on a compromise, I generally feel two people are too little to decide anything on Wikipedia. Does anyone else have feelings on this? [[User:Lectiodifficilior|Lectiodifficilior]] 29 June 2005 22:44 (UTC)

* 2005: Nominated - Song of the Year/ Adult Hit Radio {''Breakaway'')

You have proved that the image source is not ok. I hope that somone will make a reconstruction someday, maybe some request for images of the interior should be also usefull.[[User:CristianChirita|CristianChirita]] 30 June 2005 07:14 (UTC)

* 2005: Nominated - Song of the Year/ Mainstream Hit Radio {''Since U Been Gone and Behind These Hazel Eyes'')

[[Image:Hagia Sophia.jpg|thumb]] I think that the above image settle the issue.[[User:CristianChirita|CristianChirita]] 09:28, 27 September 2005 (UTC)

* 2005: Nominated - Artist of the Year/ Adult Hit Radio

* 2005: Nominated - Artist of the Year / Mainstream Hit Radio

** '''The 2005 Radio Music Awards air December 16, 2005

* 2003: Nominated - Song Of The Year / Top 40 Radio (''Miss Independent'')

* 2003: Nominated - Best Driving Song

'''[[Teen Choice Awards]]'''

==Photos==

* 2005: '''Won''' - Choice Album (''Breakaway'')

* 2005: '''Won''' - Choice Summer Song (''Behind These Hazel Eyes'')

* 2005: '''Won''' - Choice Single (''Since U Been Gone'')

* 2005: '''Won''' - Choice Female Artist

* 2003: '''Won''' - Choice Female Music Artist

* 2003: Nominated - Choice Summer Movie (''From Justin To Kelly'')

* 2003: Nominated - Choice Summer Song (''Miss Independent'')

* 2003: Nominated - Choice Crossover Artist

* 2003: Nominated - Choice Breakout Artist

* 2003: Nominated - Choice Breakout Movie Star, Female

* 2003: Nominated - Choice Chemistry (''From Justin To Kelly'')

* 2003: Nominated - Choice Love Song (''A Moment Like This'')

'''[[World Music Awards]]'''

[[image:agiasofia.jpg|thumb|left|500px|Agia Sofia, April 2002]]

* 2005: Nominated - World's Best-Selling Pop Female Artist

* 2003: Nominated - Best New Female Artist

== External links ==

It's actually quite difficult to get a decent wide-angle photo of Agia Sofia because of the density of the trees in the surrounding parkland. Here is one of mine which shows a little more the building than the one currently used.

*[http://www.kellyclarksonweb.com/ The Official Homepage of Kelly Clarkson]

On the other issue, I don't see that there is anything wrong of a representation of the building as it looked before 1453 provided it is clearly labelled as such. There is nothing anti-Islamic about this. After all it was built as church and was a church for 1,000 years. It only became a mosque when it was seized by force by the Ottomans. [[User:Adam Carr|Adam]] 30 June 2005 07:33 (UTC)

*[http://www.kellyclarksonuk.com/ The Official UK Homepage of Kelly Clarkson]

*[http://www.kellyclarkson.com/ The Official Fan Club of Kelly Clarkson]

*{{imdb name|id=1225628|name=Kelly Clarkson}}

*{{nndb name|id=658/000045523|name=Kelly Clarkson}}

{{start box}}

:Can the parked vans and such be cropped from the bottom before this goes onto the article? --[[User:Wetman|Wetman]] 30 June 2005 23:16 (UTC)

{{succession box|title= ''[[American Idol]]'' Winners|before=''None''|after=[[Ruben Studdard]]|years=Season 1 (2002)}}

{{end box}}

[[Category:1982 births|Clarkson, Kelly]]

I agree that they are not very sightly, but cropping the photo would erase the visual relationship between the church and the ground, and leave it floating above the treetops. The building is located in a modern city, and this is what it looks like. I think altering the image in the interests of beautification would be in effect an editorial statement about what ancient buildings "ought" to look like. [[User:Adam Carr|Adam]] 30 June 2005 23:55 (UTC)

[[Category:American Idol contestants|Clarkson, Kelly]]

[[Category:American pop singers|Clarkson, Kelly]]

[[Category:Dance Top 40 acts in United States|Clarkson, Kelly]]

[[Category:Female singers|Clarkson, Kelly]]

[[Category:Fort Worthians|Clarkson, Kelly]]

[[Category:People from Texas|Clarkson, Kelly]]

[[Category:Pop musicians|Clarkson, Kelly]]

[[Category:Pop singers|Clarkson, Kelly]]

[[Category:Reality show winners|Clarkson, Kelly]]

[[Category:Vocalists|Clarkson, Kelly]]

[[Category:Whistle register singers|Clarkson, Kelly]]

[[de:Kelly Clarkson]]

==100 Most Endangered Sites==

[[es:Kelly Clarkson]]

I removed this tag, as this structure was misidentified as being on the list. The structure on the World Monuments watchlist is the [[Little Hagia Sophia]], also in Istanbul. BrainyBroad 06:55, July 22, 2005 (UTC)

[[fr:Kelly Clarkson]]

[[id:Kelly Clarkson]]

[[ja:ケリー・クラークソン]]

[[nl:Kelly Clarkson]]

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