Wikipedia talk:Disambiguation pages with links and Kelly Clarkson: Difference between pages

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[[Image:Kelly Clarkson 01.jpg|thumb|200px|Kelly Clarkson]]

==Prince==

'''Kelly Brianne Clarkson''' (born [[April 24]] [[1982]]) is an [[United States|American]] singer who won the first season of ''[[American Idol]]'' and has since gone on to have a successful recording career. She has had six Top-10 United States [[Single (music)|singles]], including three number-one radio hits from the same album (''Breakaway''), and both of her [[Album (music)|albums]] have entered the top five on the [[Billboard Top 200]] chart.

The [[Prince]] page is not really a disambiguation page, just a list of definitions of the various ways a prince can be a prince, along with a disambiguation block re: [[Prince Rogers Nelson]] and [[The Prince]]. However, since people are likely to keep linking to <nowiki>[[Prince]] when they mean [[Prince Rogers Nelson]]</nowiki>, I'm inclined to leave it on the [[Wikipedia:Links_to_disambiguating_pages]] list so that links to it get listed here and reviewed every now and then.... what say others? [[User:CatherineMunro|Catherine]] 03:00 Mar 25, 2003 (UTC)

==Biography and music career==

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==Vikipedio= Early life ===

Clarkson was born in [[Fort Worth, Texas|Fort Worth]], [[Texas]] to Stephen Michael Clarkson and Jeanne Ann Rose. Her parents divorced when she was six years old, after which her brother went to live with their father, her sister with their aunt, and Clarkson with her mother. She eventually moved to [[Burleson, Texas]] after fourth grade. In middle school, she was overheard singing in a school corridor by a teacher, who invited her to join the school [[choir]]. Her participation in choral and musical activities spurred her interest in a recording [[career]] and, following her high school graduation, she relocated to [[Los Angeles, California]].

Clarkson worked as an extra on [[television]] (one such appearance was on ''[[Sabrina the Teenage Witch]]'') and worked briefly with songwriter [[Gerry Goffin]]. After her Los Angeles [[apartment]] burned down, however, she moved back to Texas, discouraged but still intent on a career in show business. She still managed some odd jobs such as cocktail waitress, [[Red Bull]] promo girl, and [[Telemarketing|telemarketer]].

How do I edit the Esperanto Wiki to redirect Comic? [[User:Skeetch|Skeetch]] 03:09, Oct 29, 2003 (UTC)

=== ''American Idol'' competition ===

:Hi. I'm not sure what it is you want to do:

[[Image:Kelly Clarkson.jpg|150px|thumb|right|Clarkson performing on ''Idol'']]

Clarkson auditioned for ''American Idol '' along with ten thousand other people in [[2002]]. Impressed by her performance, the panel of judges put her through to the next round. Upon landing a final thirty spot, Clarkson was praised by the judges for her rendition of [[Aretha Franklin]]'s "[[Respect (Aretha Franklin song)|Respect]]". She moved on to the final ten, receiving a number two spot in her group. Once in the top ten, Clarkson gradually moved into the position of competition favorite, performing songs such as [[Carole King]]'s "(You Make Me Feel Like) A Natural Woman" and [[Bette Midler]]'s "Stuff Like That There".

On [[September 4]] [[2002]], Clarkson won the competition, earning 58% of the audience vote over [[Justin Guarini]], who had previously been leading. As the newly crowned "American Idol", Clarkson performed the ballad "[[A Moment Like This]]". Clarkson, [[Clay Aiken]] of season two and [[Carrie Underwood]] of season four were the only contestants in ''American Idol'' history who succeeded in staying out of the bottom three places in weekly voting results. Clarkson and Underwood both went on to win the competition.

*The esparanto wikipedia is at [http://eo.wikipedia.org/ http://eo.wikipedia.org/]. If you want to edit a page there click on "Redaktu la pa&#285;on" on the left margin;

*if you want to get to the "Komikso" page without being redirected to "Bildliteraturo" then [http://eo.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Komikso&redirect=no this link] should take you there (to get to a redirect page, click on the link next to "redirected from");

*if you want to change the interwiki link on "comic", then edit the "comic" article and change <nowiki> [[eo:Komikso]] to [[eo:Bildliteraturo]] (or wherever you want the link to lead)</nowiki>;

*If I've completely confused you and not answered you question in any way .... let me know!

=== ''Idol'' recording career ===

:[[User:Sannse|sannse]] 09:53, 29 Oct 2003 (UTC)

*Thanks! The issue was <nowiki> [[eo:Bildliteraturo]] linked to disambiguation page [[en:Comic]] </nowiki>. I editied eo:Bildliteraturo but kept seeing the original page. A cache issue apparently. My edit is there today.[[User:Skeetch|Skeetch]]

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==Vector and pitch==

[[Image:Kelly Clarkson Thankful.jpg|left|thumb|200px|''Thankful'' &mdash; [[April 15]] [[2003]]]]

It may make more sense to remove Vector from the list of disambiguation pages. It contains pertinent discussion on the subject and there already exists a Vector (disambiguation) page. [[User:Skeetch|Skeetch]] 20:19, Nov 10, 2003 (UTC)

:I agree that the discussion on [[Vector]] is relevant, but 1) [[Vector (disambiguation)]] redirects to [[Vector]] and 2) a quick sample suggests that most of the links should go directly to one of the detail pages. This is going to be a tough one. The proper goal may not be complete disambiguation but just a reduction of the volume. [[User:Rossami|Rossami]] 22:50, 10 Nov 2003 (UTC)

On [[October 5]] [[2002]], Clarkson's first single, "A Moment Like This", broke the record for biggest jump on the charts when it jumped from number fifty-two to number one on the [[Billboard Hot 100]] chart. This broke the long-standing record set by [[The Beatles]] in [[1964]], when "[[Can't Buy Me Love]]" moved from number twenty-seven to number one. "A Moment Like This" was eventually certified gold, selling upwards of 500,000 copies.

::[[vector]] seems to me considerably easier than [[pitch]]. I think the disambiguation page for pitch could use some clean up. There are multiple meanings defined on a single target, multiple targets for a single meaning, and more than two thirds of the offered meanings don't include targets. Worse, when looking at the linking pages, quite a few of them fit multple meanings of pitch. Seems hopeless. --[[User:Ssd|ssd]] 04:46, 17 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Her first [[Album (music)|album ]] ''[[Thankful]]'' was released by [[RCA Records]] on [[April 15]] [[2003]]. In May 2003 it was certified [[platinum record|double platinum]] by the [[Recording Industry Association of America|RIAA]]. ''Thankful'' also received good reviews, though critics said that much of her success could be credited to the commerciality of the music. Clarkson co-wrote four of the twelve songs on the album.

::I've just discovered that [[Vector (mathematics)]] is a redirect to [[Vector (spatial)]]. Maybe we should replace this redirect with a subdisambiguator, which would take the first bullet point from the main [[Vector]] page. Of course it will mean that links'll need to point to another disambiguation page, but at least it's a more specialised one. What does everyone think? -- [[User:Smjg|Smjg]] 14:07, 17 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Songs from the album released as singles include "[[Low (song)|Low]]", which peaked at number fifty-eight in the US, and "[[The Trouble with Love Is]]", which was featured on the [[soundtrack]] of the 2004 film ''[[Love Actually]]''.

Clarkson starred with fellow ''American Idol'' contestant Justin Guarini in ''[[From Justin to Kelly]]'' which was released in the summer of [[2003 in film|2003]]. The film received weak reviews and was a [[box office bomb|box office disaster]]. Some critics named it one of the [[List of movies that have been cited as being among the worst ever made|worst movies ever made]]. The two stars revealed that their work in the film was stipulated in their ''Idol'' contracts.

:::I think most vectors in math are spatial vectors anyway. Even a 4-vector could be considered a spatial vector. Matricies in this context are not vectors, only used to manipulate vectors. It would be nice of the stuff under math were put in a more sane format, though. --[[User:Ssd|ssd]] 04:41, 18 Mar 2004 (UTC)

In September 2003, Clarkson appeared [[NBC]]'s ''[[American Dreams]]'' as [[Brenda Lee]], performing "Sweet Nothings".

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== search and redirects? ==

In December 2003, Clarkson participated in the ''[[World Idol]]'' competition. She placed second to Norwegian Idol winner [[Kurt Nilsen]].

How does the search work when there is a redirect to the disambiguation page? Will it count links in to both pages? Or do both pages have be listed separately on the [[Wikipedia:Links to disambiguating pages]] page? [[User:Rossami|Rossami]] 02:45, 16 Nov 2003 (UTC)

In [[Grammy Awards of 2004|2004]], Clarkson received a nomination for the [[Grammy Award for Best Female Pop Vocal Performance|Best Female Pop Vocal Performance]] [[Grammy Awards|Grammy]] for her edgy top-ten hit single "[[Miss Independent]]". It was co-written by [[Christina Aguilera]] and Clarkson.

:Preferrably the latter. Only links to the 'end' page are counted, the redirecting page counts only once (for itself linking to it), but not more than that. [[User:Andre Engels|Andre Engels]] 16:18, 16 Nov 2003 (UTC)

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==Multiple place names==

For the new list I have also included all pages linked from "Wikipedia:Multiple-place names A" and the other 25 letters. There are quite a few of those that are not really disambiguation pages though. Just remove those that are not from this list. [[User:Andre Engels|Andre Engels]] 09:08, 13 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Later in 2004, Clarkson embarked on the thirty-city "Independent Tour" with fellow ''Idol'' contestant [[Clay Aiken]].

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==Function==

Gah! [[Function]] was just converted into a disambiguation page. There's 549 links to it!! This'll be a job to convert. Granted, they did a really good job of constructing the disambiguation page, but I'm not sure page history was correctly copied, and I'm not convinced it should go here, rather than [[function (disambiguation)]] or something (which is a redirect). (Would this be less work to fix?) Any comments on this before I start working on fixing these? --[[User:Ssd|ssd]] 04:41, 18 Mar 2004 (UTC)

=== Solo career established ===

:What would we put at <nowiki>[[function]] in that case? If it were just a redirect to [[function (disambiguation)]] </nowiki>then the links would need fixing anyway, and there doesn't seem to be a primary topic to put at the main article name (and really the links would need checking and fixing anyway). So I'm afraid this is one that probably needs to be done... 'course, those who made the page a disambig should rightly do the work ;) -- [[User:Sannse|sannse]] [[User talk:Sannse|(talk)]] 10:05, 18 Mar 2004 (UTC)

[[Image:Breakaway.jpg|thumb|right|200px|''Breakaway'' &mdash; [[November 30]] [[2004]]]]

On [[November 30]] [[2004]], RCA Records released Clarkson's second album ''[[Breakaway (album)|Breakaway]]''. Entering the Billboard album chart at number three, ''Breakaway'' received praise from critics, who noted its harder, more [[rock and roll|rock]]-flavored edge, one that invited comparisons to [[Avril Lavigne]]. The album has also been characterized by Clarkson herself as being in the [[pop rock]] genre.

::I don't mind doing some of 'em. Spread the job, etc... Well, I've started anyway. The "main" topic previously was (I think) function (mathematics), but looking at the links, there's quite a few things that were some other kind of function, so maybe the disambiguation page is best as the main page. --[[User:Ssd|ssd]] 13:39, 18 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Clarkson took a more hands-on approach to creating ''Breakaway'', co-writing six of the eleven tracks in the process. Producers and fellow artists also helped Clarkson craft the album, some of which include [[Max Martin]] ("Since U Been Gone", "Behind These Hazel Eyes"), Avril Lavigne ("Breakaway"), and former [[Evanescence]] band members Ben Moody and David Hodges ("Because of You", "Addicted").

:I'm almost done doing this one with [[User:Robbot|Robbot]], but even with the robot it's a hell of a job. I have left some links in biological meanings, because I was unsure whether to disambiguate them to [[purpose]] or to add a separate page for it. - [[User:Andre Engels|Andre Engels]] 10:26, 23 Mar 2004 (UTC)

''Breakaway's'' first four singles, "[[Breakaway (song)|Breakaway]]", "[[Since U Been Gone]]", "[[Behind These Hazel Eyes]]" and "[[Because of You (Kelly Clarkson song)|Because of You]]", have all received widespread airplay in several different radio formats and reached the [[Billboard Hot 100]] top-ten, peaking at number six, number two, number six and number seven, respectively. "Because of You" became ''Breakaway'''s third number one mainstream radio hit in the U.S. following "Breakaway" and "Since U Been Gone". The song is also currently ranked at number six in Canada and number 8 in the U.S..

::Ya, I left those too. I think some meanings of ''function'' don't exactly match ''purpose''. Perhaps another meaning is lurking there. [[User:Ssd|ssd]] 14:04, 23 Mar 2004 (UTC)

On October 22, 2005, she became the first pop artist in five years to have four top 10 hits off one album.

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[[Image:Behind These Hazel Eyes.jpg|154px|thumb|left|"Behind These Hazel Eyes" CD single cover]]

==Cleaning up Hebrew==

Industry experts noted that Clarkson had avoided the "sophomore slump", and that the artistic and commercial success of the album and its singles cemented Clarkson's place in the pop music industry, separate from the ''American Idol'' machine. ''Breakaway'' has proved to have staying power. Eleven months after its release, it has not left the top-twenty.

I'm slowly working on it. Feel free to join in!

In [[2005]] Clarkson was a musical guest on ''[[Saturday Night Live]]'' and acted in two sketches. Clarkson was also named by [[People (magazine)|Teen People Magazine]] as one of the "Hottest 25 Stars Under 25".

By the way, does someone/something periodically run the automated update process? How often does this happen?

By July 2005 Clarkson is the top-selling ''American Idol'' contestant and the only one having released two mainstream CDs. ''Breakaway'' has so far sold 3.9 million copies domestically (certified 4 times-platinum by the [[Recording Industry Association of America|RIAA]] on [[November]] [[2005]]).

:I would like to update it, but the problem is that the SQL search it requires takes longer than the 30 seconds that sysops are given for their queries. And that at the moment sysop SQL queries have been disabled completely. But to get to your question: No, it is not done periodically. The last updates have been (according to Page history)

:* 3-12-2002 by me

:* 8-2-2003 by [[User:Enchanter|Enchanter]]

:* 25-3-2003 by [[User:Sannse|Sannse]]

:* 14-4-2003 by Sannse

:* 4-7-2003 by Sannse

:* 29-9-2003 by me

:* 11-10-2003 by me

:* 14-10-2003 by me

:* 20-10-2003 by me

:* 9-11-2003 by me

:* 13-12-2003 by me

:* 27-2-2004 by Sannse

- [[User:Andre Engels|Andre Engels]] 10:37, 23 Mar 2004 (UTC)

In August, Clarkson won several [[Teen Choice Award|Teen Choice Awards]] and [[Video Music Awards|MTV Video Music Awards]].

*Hebrew is now done, and ''staying'' done. I check it twice a day (and there's usually a new link to fix every other time). --[[User:BDAbramson|<font style="background: lightgreen">&nbsp;BDAbramson</font>]] [[User talk:BDAbramson|^<b>talk</b>]] July 6, 2005 17:52 (UTC)

**Perhaps you should check it once a day ;-) [[User:Flowerparty|Flowerparty]] [[User talk:Flowerparty|^talk]] 13:10, 13 August 2005 (UTC)

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Despite having bronchitis, Clarkson appeared on ''ReAct Now: Music & Relief'', a live performance broadcast on [[Viacom]]'s networks MTV, VH1 and CMT on [[September 10]] [[2005]]. The program raised funds for the [[American Red Cross]] and the victims of [[Hurricane Katrina]]. Clarkson performed a cover of [[Ray LaMontagne]]'s "Shelter".

==What about talk links?==

Should we remove links from the list only when ALL links are fixed (except redirects and appropriate links)? Should User:Talk and Talk: links be fixed as well? I removed Car and Current because the only remaining links are Talk, User or Redirect links. Is this appropriate? --[[User:Golbez|Golbez]] 09:01, 3 Apr 2004 (UTC)

== Personal life and persona ==

:I usually fix Talk links if the conversation is not too recent and is not particularly controversial. Often the talk actually refers to the disambiguation page anyway, in which case I leave it (although I have "nowikied" in instead on occasion). If I think the change is likely to cause upset then I leave alone - after all it's not that vital.

Clarkson has a well-known conservative reputation, which is considered unusual by typical "Hollywood" standards. Clarkson's personal relationships are rarely outspoken, although some past love interests have sparked curiosity among fans and media outlets everywhere. While giving her acceptance speech for Best Female Video at the MTV Video Music Awards on [[August 28]], [[2005]], Clarkson briefly thanked her beau in the crowd, essentially confirming a rumor that she was in a new relationship. It's revealed later that her new beau is [[Graham Colton]], the lead singer of the Texas-based [[Graham Colton Band]], the opening band for her 2005 summer tour.

:On User Talk pages I usually correct the links, but if I do I leave a message explaining what I've done. That's just to make sure people aren't confused by the "you have new messages" notice.

Clarkson is known for her bond with her fans, with whom she goes out of her way to meet and talk. Once on her ''Breakaway Tour'', she was sick after a show in [[Chicago]]. Instead of cancelling the meet-and-greet afterward, as many artists would do, she went through with it and even apologized to her fans for not being able to talk much to them.

:I fix User page links if I'm sure enough that I know where to link them. If I'm in any doubt I leave a message on the user's talk page to ask them to fix it.

Clarkson has also had her share of minor controversy, such as allegations that her work doing demos for a record company broke ''American Idol'' rules about not having a contract with a record company. However, she was cleared of all allegations, having only had a contract to do demonstration work. Later as what some saw as poor sportsmanship on her part during the ''World Idol'' competition when she realized she was not going to win; she would instead earn second place.

:In all cases I only ever change the link, never the text, using <nowiki>[[piped links|the pipe trick]]</nowiki> I've only ever had one mild complaint from working this way, which I think shows it works well.

According to a fall 2005 issue of Pop-Star, Clarkson has written a song called "Haunted" based on a real life experience. "But it's not about me," she says. "It's about a friend of mine. We went to high school together and she committed suicide about a year after we graduated. She was a very cool girl. It's always the people you'd never expect. I would have never thought that."

:Redirect pages can be treated the same as articles - if the link can be redirected to a specific page then do so, otherwise it should stay linked to the disambiguation page.

== Tours ==

:I remove a page from this list once I've done all the fixing I think appropriate, even if a few links remain.

'''2002: The ''American Idol'' Tour'''

:That's all just how I work, but I hope it helps -- [[User:Sannse|sannse]] [[User talk:Sannse|(talk)]] 12:40, 3 Apr 2004 (UTC)

* 28-City U.S. Tour (October - November 2002)

** Two-month arena tour starring Kelly and the other ''American Idol'' finalists.

'''2004: The Independent Tour, co-headlining with Clay Aiken'''

::Sometimes the disabiguation page is clearly the best page. In these cases, you're suppose to redirect it to <nowiki>[[item (disambiguation)|]]</nowiki> which is either the disambiguation page, or a link to the dab page. However, sometimes the right one just isn't on the list. In those cases, I suppose it is best to leave the link unfixed for someone in the future to figure out, perhaps when new disambiguations are added to the dab page. [[User:Ssd|ssd]] 13:53, 3 Apr 2004 (UTC)

* 30-City U.S. Tour (February - April 2004)

* The final show in [[St. Paul, Minnesota]] on April 16, 2004, featured the acoustic performance of a new song entitled "Don't", written by Clarkson and her band's lead guitarist Danny Weissfeld during the tour. "Don't" also became a part of the regular set list throughout the ''Breakaway'' tour, and is rumored to appear on Clarkson's third studio album.

'''2005: The ''Breakaway'' Spring Tour'''

:::That makes sense, saves someone else checking another time. -- [[User:Sannse|sannse]] [[User talk:Sannse|(talk)]] 21:09, 4 Apr 2004 (UTC)

* 35-City U.S. / Canada Tour (March&ndash;May 2005)

* The ''Breakaway'' Tour is Clarkson's most successful to date, selling-out the majority of venues in its 35-city run.

'''2005: The Hazel Eyes Summer Tour'''

::My policy is to change the link if it is about the ''subject'' of the page, but keep it if it is about the page itself. Sometimes the distinction is blurry, of course, but I'd say that "if you really want to discuss this, take your [[car]] and drive over to me" should be disambiguated, while "Just like [[car]], I think this page should/should not be a disambiguation page" clearly should not. Still, disambiguation discussion pages is clearly less important than doing so with the encyclopedia itself. When all main namespace articles have been disambiguated, a page can be removed from this list, whether talk pages have been disambiguated 'as far as possible' or not, in my opinion. - [[User:Andre Engels|Andre Engels]] 19:37, 4 Apr 2004 (UTC)

* Dates are currently scheduled throughout the US and Canada, the forty-six-city tour ran from [[July 6]] opening in Lubbock, TX and ended in New York, NY on [[October 11]].

*The [[July 17]] [[Orlando, Florida]] concert was [[webcast]] live on [[AOL]]. A key thematic moment in her concerts is her rendition of [[Annie Lennox]]'s 1992 hit, "Why", which she introduces as her favorite song. The 70-minute show features frequent sing-alongs from the audience and expressions of gratitude from Clarkson. There are rock arrangements to most songs, with an [[a cappella]] "Beautiful Disaster" and a two-[[acoustic guitar]]-only shambolic "Breakaway".

*Due to popular demand, "Hear Me" was added to the tour set list after Clarkson was, as she put it, "hated on" during the ''Breakaway'' Tour for not performing this song at any of her shows.

* The Hazel Eyes Tour features a new song called "Come Here" which is, according to Clarkson, "probably going to be on the next record".

*Several venues were cancelled, due to Clarkson contracting bronchitis and walking pneumonia. She will return in December to finish up her Hazel Eyes Tour. Currently scheduled stops are in Texas, California, Nevada and Washington.

'''2005: The ''Breakaway'' World Tour'''

*In a June 2005 radio interview on [[Capital FM]] in London, Clarkson mentioned that she would begin planning a world tour that will visit Australia, Asia, and Europe, after finishing ''The Hazel Eyes Tour'' in the U.S.

*The ''Breakaway'' World Tour began on Friday [[November 4]], 2005, at the [[Challenge Stadium]] in [[Perth, Western Australia|Perth, Australia]]. Her final show in Australia and both New Zealand dates have been postponed due to vocal strain. This may affect her return to the United States to finish up her Hazel Eyes tour. She is scheduled to head to the British Isles beginning February 17th in Manchester, UK. New dates are announced regularly, but may be pushed back due to Clarkson's current sickness.

:I've been working through this list recently. I have been leaving ''Talk'' and ''User'' pages untouched. "French" is down to one because for the life of me I cant find the link to it on the [[Korcula]] page.- Go Flames Go - [[User:Drhaggis|Drhaggis]] 05:05, 20 May 2004 (UTC)

== Discography ==

== deleting finished entries ==

=== Albums ===

I notice that a lot of the entries people finished left in with a comment "needs constant watching". Considering that this page isn't getting regenerated very often, perhaps it should be split into ''links needing disambiguation'' and ''disambiguation pages fixed but frequently needing rechecks'', where stuff doesn't get deleted from the latter... --[[User:Ssd|ssd]] 05:15, 20 May 2004 (UTC)

* [[2003]]: ''[[Thankful]]'' &mdash; '''#1''' US (1 week, 2x Platinum); '''#1''' CAN (1 week, Platinum); #30 AUS (Gold); #52 UK

* [[2004]]: ''[[Breakaway (album)|Breakaway]]'' &mdash; #3 US (4x Platinum); #6 CAN (3x Platinum); #2 AUS (3x Platinum); #5 NZ (2x Platinum); #6 UK (Platinum); South Africa (Platinum); Ireland (Platinum); Singapore (Gold); Indonesia (Gold) - over 5.5 million worldwide

** ''[[Breakaway (album)|Breakaway]]'' was re-released in Australia on [[November 7]] [[2005]]. The re-release contains a second disc, including remixes, live tracks and music videos.

*** There has recently been talk of re-releasing ''[[Breakaway (album)|Breakaway]]'' in the United States. There have been several descriptions and several release dates from major retailers, and nothing has been confirmed as of yet by RCA or by Clarkson.

=== Singles ===

:Sounds OK to me, I have a similar list on my user page - but it's very out of date and a public list would be more useful IMO. I suggest we only add the ''very'' commonly linked pages, otherwise it would simply end up as another list of all disambiguation pages. -- [[User:Sannse|sannse]] [[User talk:Sannse|(talk)]] 07:39, 24 May 2004 (UTC)

[[Image:Kelly Clarkson - A Moment Like This CD cover.jpg|150 px|thumb|right|"A Moment Like This"<br>CD single cover]]

*from ''Thankful''

See [[Wikipedia:Disambiguation pages maintenance]]. [[User:Josh Parris|Josh Parris]] [[User_talk:Josh Parris|&#9993;]] 01:03, 2 August 2005 (UTC)

** 2002: "[[A Moment Like This]]" &mdash; '''#1''' US (2 weeks;(US Certification: '''Gold'''); '''#1''' CAN (2 weeks; (CAN Certification: '''2x Platinum''')

*** Released in the US as a [[double A-side]] with "Before Your Love"

** 2003: "[[Miss Independent]]" &mdash; #9 (US Certification: '''Gold'''); #6 CAN; #6 UK; #3 AUS (Gold)

** 2003: "[[Low (song)|Low]]" &mdash; #58 US; #2 CAN; #11 AUS

** 2003: "[[The Trouble with Love Is]]" &mdash; #35 UK; #11 AUS

*** Released in the UK as a double A-side with "Low"

*from ''Breakaway''

== Updating now more difficult... ==

** 2004: "[[Breakaway (song)|Breakaway]]" &mdash; #6 (US Certification: '''2x Platinum'''); #3 CAN; #10 (AUS Certification: '''Gold'''); #12 NZ

** 2004: "[[Since U Been Gone]]" &mdash; #2 (US Certification: '''4x Platinum'''); '''#1''' CAN (2 weeks); #5 UK; #3 (AUS Certification: '''Platinum'''); '''#1''' SA (3 weeks); #4 IRL; '''#1''' CHI; #6 GER; #11 NZ; #7 SWZ

** 2005: "[[Behind These Hazel Eyes]]" &mdash; #6 (US Certification: '''Platinum'''); #4 CAN; #9 UK; #6 AUS; #5 CHI; #16 SA

** 2005: "[[Because of You (Kelly Clarkson song)|Because of You]]" &mdash; #7 US; #5 CAN

== UK chart performance ==

AIUI, now that we're on MediaWiki 1.3, the links table works differently, and so tho above code fragments won't work - so, presumably, you need to do a nested SELECT to work out the article_id for the page [[Wikipedia:Links to disambiguating pages]] (?)...

<br />

[[User:Jdforrester|James F.]] [[User_talk:Jdforrester|(talk)]] 19:45, 30 May 2004 (UTC)

Following the trend of several previous American artists, Clarkson's album dropped in the United States before hitting the United Kingdom as well as the rest of Europe, as success in the UK tends to reflect success in the rest of Europe.

== Yugoslavia ==

What does [[Yugoslavia]] 243 do here? It is not a dab page. [[User:Mikkalai|Mikkalai]] 03:40, 4 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Clarkson's first single released in the U.K. was "Miss Independent", which reached the top ten. However when she released her debut album, ''Thankful'', it did poorly on the charts, as did her singles "Low" and "The Trouble with Love Is". However she came back with "Since U Been Gone", which reached number five, and stayed a further eight weeks in the top ten. It is currently in the top fifty after nearly half a year. The second single, "Behind These Hazel Eyes," also reached the top ten, and is now in the top twenty.

==Script==

Her second album, ''Breakaway'', reached number six, and is currently in the top ten; it has been certified platinum. Clarkson is the first American female to reach a peak that high since [[Britney Spears]]' ''Greatest Hits'' album. Clarkson has had more sucess than many other US female pop acts, and is currently the only American female to have a album in the top twenty.

I have done some work on "script", but there is still a problem. There is no article for a comic book script or a theater script. What sould I do with these? Should I remove the wikilinks? Should I create wikilinks to non-existing articles and hope they get written by someone else? [[User:JoaoRicardo|JoaoRicardo]] 01:10, 8 Feb 2005 (UTC)

She is tenth on the list of Christmas favorites, behind some of the U.K.'s biggest artists: [[Coldplay]], [[Robbie Williams]], [[Westlife]], [[Girls Aloud]], and [[Sugababes]].

==Punk==

==Videography==

I have been working on punk now for a reasonable amount of time now, but it seems that i keep running into quite a few of the same links as before. DOes anyone know the reason why?? [[User:Jaberwocky6669|Jaberwocky6669]] 03:24, Apr 6, 2005 (UTC)

*from ''Thankful''

== Suggested improvements ==

''(Moved from article)''

{| class="wikitable"

* Do not include User and Talk namespaces in the count (links to [[IRC]] were 90% User: or Talk:). [[User:SeventyThree|SeventyThree]] 02:44, 17 Apr 2005 (UTC)

|- bgcolor="#CCCCCC"

*:Should already be done. The script selects namespace=0 articles only. However the "what links here" page is less discriminatory. [[User:Rich Farmbrough|Rich Farmbrough]] 11:30, 21 Apr 2005 (UTC)

! Date !! Video !! Director !! [[Total Request Live|TRL]] Stats !! Notes

* Have a "Whatlinkshere" link next to each dab page link. [[User:Alphax|Alphax]]&nbsp;<sup >[[User talk:Alphax|&tau;]][[Special:Emailuser/Alphax|&epsilon;]][[Special:Contributions/Alphax|&chi;]]</sup > 07:01, 22 May 2005 (UTC)

|-

* Is there some way that a watchlist could indicate when a disambig is linked to? I've put fair labor into cleaning up links to a few of the disambigs below, and I check them every few days to fix any new links made to them - but it would be much more convenient if I could be alerted to new links without having to check each page. --[[User:BDAbramson|<font style="background: green" color=#FFC000>&nbsp;BDAbramson</font>]] [[User talk:BDAbramson|<sup><font color="Blue"><b>talk</b></font>]] 03:22, 2005 May 30 (UTC)

| September 2002 || "Before Your Love" || Antti Jokinen || 13 days <br> (1 at #1) || Kelly's first official video, featured and world premiered on MTV's [[Making the Video]].

* If there was a way to get a "Whatlinkshere" list for a page in a machine-readable format, it would be very doably to write a tool similar to [[User:Humanbot]] for this project. That would '''really''' speed up this project. Alas, there's no way to get that list, that I can find :-( [[User:Biot|Biot]] 19:12, Jun 3, 2005 (UTC)

|-

| October 2002 || "A Moment Like This" || Antti Jokinen || 19 days <br> (1 at #1) || Features clips of Clarkson's winning moment on ''American Idol''.

|-

| May 2003 || "Miss Independent" || Liz Friedlander || 50 days <br> (14 at #1) || Nominated for [[MTV Video Music Award for Best New Artist|Best New Artist in a Video]], [[MTV Video Music Award for Best Pop Video|Best Pop Video]], and [[MTV Video Music Award - Viewer's Choice|Viewer's Choice]] at the 2003 MTV Video Music Awards.

Clarkson's first video to be [[TRL retired videos|retired]] from the ''[[Total Request Live|TRL]]'' countdown.

== 6/22/2005, I have begun disambig of Vietnamese. ==

|-

| August 2003 || "Low" || Antti Jokinen || 26 days <br> (4 at #1) || First video to feature Clarkson singing with a live band.

|-

| November 2003 || "The Trouble with Love Is" || Bryan Barber || 22 days <br> (0 at #1) || Soundtrack video for [[Love Actually|''Love Actually'']]

|}

*from ''Breakaway''

I have to stay awake to wait for someone who will be showing up around 2 AM, so I figured I'd keep myself occupied with something productive. With any luck I should be finished tomorrow morning.

{| class="wikitable"

== I have completed disambiguation of Vietnamese ==

|- bgcolor="#CCCCCC"

! Date !! Video !! Director !! [[Total Request Live|TRL]] Stats !! [[VH1]] Stats !! Notes

|-

| July 2004 || "Breakaway" || Dave Meyers || 23 days <br> (0 at #1) || 7 weeks <br> (0 at #1) || Soundtrack video for [[The Princess Diaries 2: Royal Engagement|''The Princess Diaries 2: Royal Engagement'']]

|-

| November 2004 || "Since U Been Gone" || Alex De Rakoff || 43 days <br> (6 at #1) || 14 weeks <br> (1 at #1) || Won for [[MTV Video Music Award for Best Female Video|Best Female Video]] and [[MTV Video Music Award for Best Pop Video|Best Pop Video]] at the 2005 MTV Video Music Awards.

Video was produced by [[Santa Monica]]-based production company [http://www.fmrocks.com/ FM Rocks].

albeit slightly behind schedule. Yay! [[User:CAPS LOCK|CAPS LOCK]] 07:16, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)

|-

| May 2005 || "Behind These Hazel Eyes" || Joseph Kahn || 50 days <br> (33 at #1) || 11 weeks <br> (0 at #1) ||

Clarkson is credited with writing the complete original [[Film treatment|treatment]] for the video,<br>which underwent very few edits and was happily executed by director Joseph Kahn.

The exterior forest scenes for "Behind These Hazel Eyes" were done in one of the largest indoor sets ever built for a music video.

== Working on Disney, Template problem ==

All interior gothic cathedral scenes were filmed in Ontario, Canada.

I was working on the disney disambiguation page, and found that there was a template sitting on 200 pages or so that linked to the page. So I tracked down the template and changed the link to "The walt disney company".

Set a record on ''TRL'' for the most days at number one by a solo female artist.

I thought 'problem solved', and it should have been. However, many of these pages, including [[Captain Loyal Hawk]], are still listed as linking to the disambiguation page, even though visiting the page itself shows no links to the disambiguation page. What am I missing?--[[User:Measure|Measure]] July 6, 2005 17:44 (UTC)

*That's just a bug of Wikipedia - when the template gets changed, you need to make a blank save (i.e. click edit, then click save without making any changes) to get the page to reset the template. --[[User:BDAbramson|<font style="background: lightgreen">&nbsp;BDAbramson</font>]] [[User talk:BDAbramson|^<b>talk</b>]] July 6, 2005 17:50 (UTC)

**Ok I'm confused. I've been working on Director and there are several templates related to television shows. I've gone in and corrected the template. I then view a page that uses the template that I've never viewed and it has the correct link, but still shows up on the "what links here". What am I missing?[[User:Barkeep49|Barkeep49]] 16:41, 23 July 2005 (UTC)

***The articles just don't know that the template has been reset. --[[User:BDAbramson|<font style="background: lightgreen">&nbsp;BDAbramson</font>]] [[User talk:BDAbramson|^<b>talk</b>]] 19:01, July 23, 2005 (UTC)

****So in other words fixing the template only fixes future problems? Grr... I thought I had saved myself a lot of work as I have to admit I'm rather daunted by the 350 links on Director.[[User:Barkeep49|Barkeep49]] 19:58, 23 July 2005 (UTC)

*****The problem ''is'' fixed. '''What links here''' reporting false positives is just a cosmetic issue. [[User:Bo Lindbergh|Bo Lindbergh]] 21:16, July 23, 2005 (UTC)

******Let me rephrase my above comment in that light: doing a blank save gets rid of the false positive. The page doesn't actually change, it just thinks it has. --[[User:BDAbramson|<font style="background: lightgreen">&nbsp;BDAbramson</font>]] [[User talk:BDAbramson|^<b>talk</b>]] 00:30, August 14, 2005 (UTC)

Clarkson's second video to be retired from the TRL countdown, and also her first video to be retired internationally (TRL Poland).

== Musical Tempo ==

|-

| September 2005 || "Because of You" || Vadim Perelman || 30 days <br> (19 at #1) || 6 Weeks<br> (3 at #1) || Filmed in Irvine, California.

The video "Because of You" marks the second time that Clarkson has submitted her own treatment for a video.

What is the proper way to do these musical tempo disambig links? For instance:

*Allegro

*Largo

*Presto

These are listed together in many different symphony pages as the names of movements. However, the disambig pages for these all lead to [[Tempo]]. It would seem odd to give a list of links of these movement names, and have them all link to the same Tempo page. In order to maintain unique links in case these links are differentiated in the future for whatever reason, should I link them to Allegro_(Tempo), Largo_(Tempo), etc, and then set up those pages as redirects to Tempo? Or should I just not worry about it, and link them all directly? - [[User:Marvin01|Marvin01]] | [[User talk:Marvin01|<small>talk</small>]] 8 July 2005 18:49 (UTC)

:If anybody cares, I went ahead and did the former (since several terms that did not have disambig pages did this already). If anyone wants to help with tempo terms, you can get the redirects I added from the tempo section on [[Italian_musical_terms]] - [[User:Marvin01|Marvin01]] | [[User talk:Marvin01|<small>talk</small>]] 8 July 2005 20:05 (UTC)

World Premiered on ''TRL'' on Monday, [[October 3]] [[2005]].

==Please slow down==

"Because of You" became Kelly's first video to debut at number one on ''TRL'', a feat accomplished only by a handful of artists.

It is more important to have links disambiguated right than have them disambiguated fast. I just checked ten links on a word I was disambiguating slowly and which a disambiguator had raced past me on. One was probably the wrong dab, one almost certainly a suboptimal dab, one I had left ambiguous intentionally because the web leaves it unclear whether a general or specific sense is meant. Four of them ignored errors in the same sentence, and most left clumsy prose.

Number one on Yahoo Music's Top 100 Videos

I don't think this dabber was in any way to blame; but do remember that a link, once dabbed, may never be looked at again. [[User:Pmanderson|Septentrionalis]] 02:17, 22 July 2005 (UTC)

|}

== If you want a headache... ==

==Filmography==

Try disentangling nationalities from ethnicities in [[Involuntary settlements in the Soviet Union]], preferably not one word at a time. [[User:Bo Lindbergh|Bo Lindbergh]] 03:02, July 23, 2005 (UTC)

*2002: ''Issues 101'' - Crystal

==Remove links?==

*2003: ''[[From Justin to Kelly]]''

Is there ever a time when it is better to remove the link entirely? I started to disambiguate "south" and one of the first links referred to the southern part of the state the article was about, call it "south Nebraska." Since, naturally, there is no article which covers south Nebraska, the link is useless. Or so it seems to me. &ndash;[[User:Shoaler|Shoaler]] ([[User talk:Shoaler|talk]]) 16:14, 28 July 2005 (UTC)

:In my experience, there is often a case for removing links. For example, an article may link to Japan and Japanese. The only appropriate link for the latter might be Japan, in which case there's no point creating a duplicate link; just unlink "Japanese". You just have to hope that no one restores the link latter. [[User:Agentsoo|Agentsoo]] 14:22, 5 August 2005 (UTC)

*I agree I'd probably have removed that one. Equally, [[Logical conditional|if]] [[I]] [[Visual perception|see]] [[a]] [[Sentence (linguistics)|sentence]] [[like]] [[demonstrative pronoun|this]] [[I]] [http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Special:Search/Usual usually] [http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Special:Search/Get get] [[Article (grammar)|the]] [[pruning]] [[scissors]] [http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Special:Search/Out out] and remove the links that seem least relevant to whatever context it appears in. And I rarely feel guilty about chopping links to cardinal numbers (e.g. ''...[[one]] of the [[three]] bishops defrocked after...'') in non-numeric contexts. I'll sometimes leave in links like your ''South'' that don't disambig sensibly if the article doesn't have many links, but I can't think of a way to formulate a rule that isn't entirely subjective: my usual criterion is, ''would I be interested or irritated after following this link if I were browsing the article?''. ~ [[User:Veledan|Veledan]] | [[User talk:Veledan|Talk]] <small>| [[Special:Contributions/Veledan|c]]</small>[[Special:Contributions/Veledan|.]] 16:35, 5 August 2005 (UTC)

:**I just disambig'd my reply after realising I'd added another 8 links to dab pages to the pile *blush*. And here's another example: in an article, I'd probably have removed the 3 links I've had to redirect to Wiktionary rather than their dab pages for the same reason you removed ''South'' ~ [[User:Veledan|Veledan]] | [[User talk:Veledan|Talk]] <small>| [[Special:Contributions/Veledan|c]]</small>[[Special:Contributions/Veledan|.]] 16:48, 5 August 2005 (UTC)

== Chart accomplishments ==

== User lists to user categories transition ==

* Biggest jump to number one with "A Moment Like this" (from fifty-two). Broke the previous record held by [[The Beatles]] (from twenty-seven with "Can't Buy Me Love").

Most other versions of Wikipedia (other than English) have implemented a system of categories that users can add themselves to on their user page - the English wikipedia up until now has had a very tangled and minimal system of categories for this and has mostly used a series of lists on the [[Wikipedia:Wikipedians]] page. For example, the [[Wikipedia:Alphabetical list of Wikipedians]], which has spawned many errors in the past and grown almost the point of not being manageable. This entire system should be replaced by categories, such as [[:Category:Wikipedians]] and its subcategories such as [[:Category:Wikipedians by ___location]] and ''its'' subcategories such as [[:Category:Wikipedians in the United States]] (which would be the replacement for [[Wikipedia:Wikipedians/United States]]. Anybody who would like to lend a hand in converting these pages should refer to the changes that are slowly being made to [[Wikipedia:Wikipedians]] and the different emerging, afformentioned categories to find a starting place. Whenever a page in Wikipedia:Wikipedians is replaced, all links to that page should ''also'' be replaced with a link to the newly created category. Also, a hierarchy should be maintained among the categories (for example, [[:Category:Wikipedians in Acadia]] had been tagged in the [[:Category:Canadian Wikipedians]] category which is then tagged in the [[:Category:Wikipedians by ___location]] category which is, in turn, tagged in the master [[:Category:Wikipedians]] category.--[[User:Thereverendeg|thereverendeg]] 17:53, 28 July 2005 (UTC)

* First solo artist to hold number-one positions on two U.S. Billboard charts simultaneously with two different singles:

** "Breakaway" &mdash; number one, Adult Contemporary

** "Since U Been Gone" &mdash; number one, Top 40

* First artist to have two songs in the top three of the Billboard Pop Airplay 100 simultaneously, with "Since U Been Gone" and "Behind These Hazel Eyes".

* "Breakaway" was number one on the Adult Contemporary charts for twenty-one non-consecutive weeks (twenty of these being consecutive), tied for the longest run for a female artist with [[Céline Dion]] (Kelly's own idol) and her song "A New Day Has Come".

* "Since U Been Gone" is currently the song with the second most number of digital downloads ever with over 900.000 downloads. Only Gwen Stefani's "Hollaback Girl" has more digital downloads of over 1.000.000.

* The "Behind These Hazel Eyes" video currently holds the record of the longest number of days at #1 on TRL by a female artist.

* "Because Of You" debuted #1 on TRL. This feature has only been done by a handful of artists.

==Awards and nominations==

'''A project page has been added for this - [[Wikipedia:User categorisation]]'''

--[[User:Thereverendeg|thereverendeg]] 00:54, 30 July 2005 (UTC)

[[Image:kelly vma05.jpg|175px|thumb|right|Kelly accepting her award for Best Female Video at the 2005 MTV Video Music Awards]]

== Disambiguation in M*A*S*H template ==

'''[[American Music Awards]]'''

* 2005: Nominated - Favorite Pop/Rock Female Artist

* 2005: Nominated - Favorite Pop/Rock Album

* 2005: '''Won''' - Favorite Adult Contemporary Artist

* 2005: '''Won''' - T-Mobile Text-In Award (Artist of the Year) (''Voted by the fans, regardless of music genre'')

** '''The 2005 American Music Awards aired November 22, 2005 on [[American Broadcasting Company|ABC]].'''

* 2003: Nominated - Best New Pop/Rock Artist

'''ASCAP Pop Music Awards'''

[[Special:Whatlinkshere/M*A*S*H|M*A*S*H Whatlinkshere]] indicates quite a few links to the disambiguation page. However, it appears this is due to a bad link in the template used to show a M*A*S*H character. The problem is the template assumes a character is generic for both the film and the TV show. Should I just leave the disambiguation intact as the template's context is technically ambiguous itself?

* 2004: '''Won''' - Song Writer Award (''Kelly Clarkson & Rhett Lawrence - Miss Independent'')

Example:

{{MASH character|

image= |

bgcolor=#c00|

fgcolor=#000|

rank=[[Corporal]] (formerly)<br>[[Sergeant]] (currently)|

name=Klinger|

gender=[[Male]]|

hair=Black|

eyes=Brown|

home=[[Toledo, Ohio|Toledo]], [[Ohio]], [[United States|USA]]|

film=None|

tv=[[Jamie Farr]]

}}

:: One possibility. Unlink the reference in the top, and add separate links under the words "Film" and "Television" towards the bottom. Then you have links to both, and the user can jump to each as desired. Workable? [[User:TexasAndroid|TexasAndroid]] 20:11, 29 July 2005 (UTC)

:::: Perfect! -- [[User:Nuggetboy|Nuggetboy]] 20:45, 29 July 2005 (UTC)

'''AOL Awards'''

== Vatican monster hunters from the Holy See ==

* 2005: '''Won''' - Best Musical Buddy

* 2004: '''Won''' - Hottest Song (''The Trouble with Love Is'')

'''BDS Certified Spin Award'''

I'm working through Vatican now... the distinction between the [[Vatican City|Vatican]] (state) and the [[Holy See]] can be subtle, but never more so than when you have to decide just which one ''was'' responsible for sending immortal monster hunter Van Helsing after Dracula in the popular movie...?</br>

* 2003: '''Won''' - 50,000 Spins (''Low'')

~ [[User:Veledan|Veledan]] | [[User talk:Veledan|Talk]] <small>| [[Special:Contributions/Veledan|c]]</small>[[Special:Contributions/Veledan|.]] 15:12, 30 July 2005 (UTC)

'''[[Billboard Music Awards]]'''

== Query ==

* 2005: Nominated - Hot 100 Song Of The Year (''Since U Been Gone'')

* 2005: Nominated - Digital Song Of The Year (''Since U Been Gone'')

* 2005: Nominated - Artist Of The Year

** '''The 2005 Billboard Music Awards airs December 6, 2005 on [[Fox Broadcasting Company|FOX]].'''

* 2002: '''Won''' - Best Selling Single Of The Year (''A Moment Like This'')

'''[[Grammy awards|Grammy Awards]]'''

Am I right in asuming that if you are fixing up the DAB [[Rage]], for example, since the word rage (meaning angry etc) doesn't have its own article, you should remove any links that attempt to link to the angry meaning of rage? --[[User:Commander Keane|Commander Keane]] 04:18, July 31, 2005 (UTC)

* 2004: Nominated - Best Female Pop Vocal Performance (''Miss Independent'')

*Probably better to make them link to [[anger]], if it fits the context. --[[User:BDAbramson|<font style="background: lightgreen">&nbsp;BDAbramson</font>]] [[User talk:BDAbramson|^<b>talk</b>]] 04:39, July 31, 2005 (UTC)

*and where it doesn't fit / isn't required by the context, I'd say yes remove the link. I think it's generally unnecessary to link a word like rage where its meaning is not the main point of the sentence and it isn't part of a list. You may find it's better to remove the link for the sake of clarity, or at least to avoid annoying people who dutifully follow the link only to find it's a blind alley so far as relevance to their article is concerned. ~ [[User:Veledan|Veledan]] | [[User talk:Veledan|Talk]] <small>| [[Special:Contributions/Veledan|c]]</small>[[Special:Contributions/Veledan|.]] 08:04, 31 July 2005 (UTC)

'''[[Video Music Awards|Latin Video Music Awards]]'''

== Mis-spellings in DAB's ==

* 2005: Nominated - Best International Pop Artist

* 2005: Nominated - Best New International Artist

'''[[Video Music Awards|MTV Video Music Awards]]'''

Is it appropriate to have mispellings in DAB pages? What about the special case of [[Dike]] and [[Dyke]], these page need to be linked, what is the best way? --[[User:Commander Keane|Commander Keane]] 13:18, August 1, 2005 (UTC)

* 2005: '''Won''' - Best Female Video (''Since U Been Gone'')

:[[Wikipedia:Manual of Style (disambiguation pages)]] says to include them in the '''See also''' section. [[User:Josh Parris|Josh Parris]] [[User_talk:Josh Parris|&#9993;]] 00:57, 2 August 2005 (UTC)

* 2005: '''Won''' - Best Pop Video (''Since U Been Gone'')

* 2005: Nominated - Viewer's Choice Award (''Since U Been Gone'')

* 2003: Nominated - Best New Artist In A Video (''Miss Independent'')

* 2003: Nominated - Best Pop Video (''Miss Independent'')

* 2003: Nominated - Viewer's Choice Award (''Miss Independent'')

'''New Music Weekly Awards'''

== Origin of names ==

* 2004: '''Won''' - Female Artist Of The Year

* 2004: '''Won''' - Top 40 Single Of The Year (''Miss Independent'')

'''Radio Music Awards'''

In [[Johnson]], for example, at the top of the article (it is a dab) there is explantion about the orign of the name "Johnson". I don't think this info complies with the Manual of style for a dab, but it could have a place somewhere else in Wikipedia, where should I put it? --[[User:Commander Keane|Commander Keane]] 07:44, August 2, 2005 (UTC)

* 2005: Nominated - Song of the Year/ Adult Hit Radio {''Breakaway'')

* 2005: Nominated - Song of the Year/ Mainstream Hit Radio {''Since U Been Gone and Behind These Hazel Eyes'')

* 2005: Nominated - Artist of the Year/ Adult Hit Radio

* 2005: Nominated - Artist of the Year / Mainstream Hit Radio

** '''The 2005 Radio Music Awards air December 16, 2005

* 2003: Nominated - Song Of The Year / Top 40 Radio (''Miss Independent'')

* 2003: Nominated - Best Driving Song

'''[[Teen Choice Awards]]'''

*I agree it can't stay in the dab. Should Wikipedia contain surname etymologies? I can't find an official policy, but the only example I can find is [[Origin of the surname "Whitehead"]] and that's under vote to be removed to Wiktionary. Wiktionary, however, ''does'' list surnames and has brief derivations, so I'd guess you simply delete it from the dab and add the first sentence you've deleted to meaning (1) in the [http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Johnson Wiktionary entry for Johnson]. You wouldn't add the remaining sentences, but if you were feeling really energetic, each variant spelling would have its own entry referring to the common spelling :-) ~ [[User:Veledan|Veledan]] | [[User talk:Veledan|Talk]] <small>| [[Special:Contributions/Veledan|c]]</small>[[Special:Contributions/Veledan|.]] 21:55, 2 August 2005 (UTC)

* 2005: '''Won''' - Choice Album (''Breakaway'')

**A ''short'' etymology within a disambig is permissible (as it is one possible meaning to which the disambig might refer); however, anything more than a few lines should be broken out into its own article, ''if'' this will be more than a mere etymology. To be an article, a surname must have some social or historical siginificance beyond merely being someone's name. (See [[Smith (surname)]], [[Zhang]]). --[[User:BDAbramson|<font style="background: lightgreen">&nbsp;BDAbramson</font>]] [[User talk:BDAbramson|^<b>talk</b>]] 22:29, August 2, 2005 (UTC)

* 2005: '''Won''' - Choice Summer Song (''Behind These Hazel Eyes'')

* 2005: '''Won''' - Choice Single (''Since U Been Gone'')

* 2005: '''Won''' - Choice Female Artist

* 2003: '''Won''' - Choice Female Music Artist

* 2003: Nominated - Choice Summer Movie (''From Justin To Kelly'')

* 2003: Nominated - Choice Summer Song (''Miss Independent'')

* 2003: Nominated - Choice Crossover Artist

* 2003: Nominated - Choice Breakout Artist

* 2003: Nominated - Choice Breakout Movie Star, Female

* 2003: Nominated - Choice Chemistry (''From Justin To Kelly'')

* 2003: Nominated - Choice Love Song (''A Moment Like This'')

'''[[World Music Awards]]'''

==Can we get rid of the fixed disambiguation pages?==

* 2005: Nominated - World's Best-Selling Pop Female Artist

Can we get rid of the struck through links? We could either move them to a separate page of fixed disambiguation pages that we can check later, or we could just delete them. I would be willing to do this, if others agree. Oh, and if we do just move the pages, the we could move them back some time in the future, like in half a year or something...just so we wouldn't have to keep checking them. --[[User:Quadraxis|Quadraxis]] 02:23, 7 August 2005 (UTC)

* 2003: Nominated - Best New Female Artist

*I quite enjoy seeing all the struckthrough links - it makes it clear that we're making progress. [[User:Agentsoo|Agentsoo]] 09:39, 8 August 2005 (UTC)

*Yeah, I like them too. For the same reason. &ndash;[[User:Shoaler|Shoaler]] ([[User talk:Shoaler|talk]]) 12:11, 8 August 2005 (UTC)

*See [[Wikipedia:Disambiguation pages maintenance]]. It's your call as to whether you or not you delete completed links. [[User_talk:Josh Parris|Josh Parris]] <span class="plainlinks">[http://kohl.wikimedia.org/~kate/cgi-bin/count_edits?user=Josh+Parris&dbname=enwiki #]</span> 12:36, 8 August 2005 (UTC)

*How about just splitting it into to subheadings on the main Disambiguation w. links page? One for completed and one for active pages (as in, pages needing attention)?

== External links ==

==Guide to Efficient Disambiguation==

Having racked up a few thousand edits on this project and learnt a good few time-saving tricks along the way, I wondered whether it would be worth writing a brief guide to efficient disambiguation? I'm sure there are plenty of handy tips that the many other dedicated contributors to this project could add, too. How about it? [[User:Agentsoo|Agentsoo]] 16:58, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

*As a new Wikipedian (6 weeks) who's helping out with the housekeeping but still has plenty to learn, I'd love to read it. Are you going to start it Agentsoo? ~ [[User:Veledan|Veledan]] | [[User talk:Veledan|Talk]] <small>| [[Special:Contributions/Veledan|c]]</small>[[Special:Contributions/Veledan|.]] 17:13, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

::The basis of my strategy is to do things simultaneously so as to minimise the time you spend waiting for the Wikipedia servers to respond. I've had a go at describing it below, and all improvements and corrections are welcome.

*Nice start and I've added a small section between your two about piped links. Feel free to put it elsewhere or delete it if it's covered in something you were about to write anyway :-) ~ [[User:Veledan|Veledan]] | [[User talk:Veledan|Talk]] <small>| [[Special:Contributions/Veledan|c]]</small>[[Special:Contributions/Veledan|.]] 18:57, 10 August 2005 (UTC)

:It's good. We definitely need something like this on the page. Bit wordy, though. The essential piece of information is that you need to use the "find" button; I can only imagine what an impossible task this project must be without it. As an aside, how do you flag the edit as minor with this technique? [[User:Flowerparty|Flowerparty]] ^{[[User talk:Flowerparty|talk]]} 20:29, 10 August 2005 (UTC)

**You can set your edits to be minor by default. Under Preferences > Editing > Mark all edits minor by default ~ [[User:Veledan|Veledan]] | [[User talk:Veledan|Talk]] <small>| [[Special:Contributions/Veledan|c]]</small>[[Special:Contributions/Veledan|.]] 22:22, 10 August 2005 (UTC)

***Ah, thought it must be something like that. That'll come in useful then, cheers. [[User:Flowerparty|Flowerparty]] ^{[[User talk:Flowerparty|talk]]} 22:40, 10 August 2005 (UTC)

===First attempt at Guide To Efficient Disambiguation===

#Clear your cache. Now visit the disambiguation page, and read it carefully. The more of the options you can remember, the easier it will be to disambiguate, so it's worth reading it several times. Your objective is efficient but ''correct'' disambiguation. The latter criterion is the more important.

#Click 'What Links Here' in the toolbox on the left, and it will show you the first 50 pages that link here. Often, a fair number of these will be redirects, or User:, Talk: or Wikipedia: pages. Whether you want to fix User and Talk pages is up to you.

#For the next stage, it is worth using a browser that supports tabs, as this will save you quite a bit of time. Click down the list of pages, opening each in a new tab. It's up to you how many pages you are going to fix in one batch. 25 to 50 is reasonable, although your browser may become sluggish if you open too many.

#By the time you finish opening those tabs, the first one should have finished loading. Scan the first paragraph; often you will see the link you are trying to fix right there. If so, click the Edit This Page link or (more efficiently) change your [[Special:Preferences|preferences]] to enable "Edit pages on double click" (under the Edit section), then just double click. The link should be distinctive as the only visited link on the page; it will be purple in the default skin. If you don't see it immediately, use your browser's Find function (probably Ctrl+F) to search for the relevant word. Once you find it, click the Edit button for the particular section. Editing only the relevant section is easier on the servers and will likely cause the page to load faster.

#While the first edit page is loading, switch to the next tab, and again find the relevant link. Repeat this along the list of tabs. By the time you start loading the last Edit page, the first one should have finished loading, so switch back to it.

#Now you have to find the link inside the edit box. This can be harder than it sounds. Internet Explorer's Find function will find the relevant term inside the edit box; Firefox's won't, although the Highlight feature will (for some reason). In Firefox, you can hold Ctrl and hit F and then Enter to quickly enable highlighting; the link should now leap out at you.

#Now for the fun part! You have to decide where to send the link to. Most of the time, this is not difficult, although sometimes it will require some thought. If you are unsure where to link to, leave a note on the Talk page - I am continually surprised at how quickly other Wikipedians respond to this notes and make the appropriate fix.

#Keeping the "disambiguation link repair ([[Wikipedia:Disambiguation pages with links|You can help!]])" message on your clipboard, ready to paste into the Edit Summary box, can be really helpful. This is probably the way that we recruit the greatest number of helpers, so it's well worth doing, and it saves you the trouble of summarising your edit yourself. In Firefox, you can edit the article, hit Tab, End, then hold Ctrl and rapidly hit V, Enter, Tab, F, Enter; this will paste the message into the Edit Box, submit the page, switch to the next tab and highlight the appropriate links.

#Work your way through the tabs, editing each one appropriately.

#Once you're done, close all the tabs, refresh the What Links Here tab, and enjoy that wonderful feeling of altruism! Occasionally, you will see the same page appear again; this means that the page linked to the disambiguation page more than once. This is quite rare, so just open the page again and fix any other links.

====What to do if the link doesn't appear on the page====

If you find a page that simply doesn't contain the name of the linked article, go ahead and hit Edit anyway, then try find the link in the edit box. The cause is usually piped links. If you are disambiguating ''Vatican'', for example, and the page doesn't have the word ''Vatican'' in a link anywhere, do your ctrl+F again in the edit box and you'll find the culprit is something like [[Vatican|Holy See]] - which does link to ''Vatican'' on closer examination ( ''<nowiki>[[Vatican|Holy See]]</nowiki>'' ).

*[http://www.kellyclarksonweb.com/ The Official Homepage of Kelly Clarkson]

====What to do if the link doesn't appear in the edit box====

*[http://www.kellyclarksonuk.com/ The Official UK Homepage of Kelly Clarkson]

*It may be part of a template that the page is [[transclusion|transcluding]]; you'll have to work out which template it is and edit that accordingly.

*[http://www.kellyclarkson.com/ The Official Fan Club of Kelly Clarkson]

*It may be linked via a redirect; the What Links Here page should tell you about this, and you'll need to search for the link to the redirect instead.

*{{imdb name|id=1225628|name=Kelly Clarkson}}

*Very occasionally, the links database seems to get confused, and will insist that a page links to another when demonstrably it doesn't. If this is the case, try saving an unchanged version of the page; this usually fixes the problem. If the phony link remains, skip the page and leave a note on [[Wikipedia:Disambiguation pages with links|dam page]].

*{{nndb name|id=658/000045523|name=Kelly Clarkson}}

{{start box}}

{{succession box|title= ''[[American Idol]]'' Winners|before=''None''|after=[[Ruben Studdard]]|years=Season 1 (2002)}}

{{end box}}

[[Category:1982 births|Clarkson, Kelly]]

==Disambiguation to Disambiguation Links==

[[Category:American Idol contestants|Clarkson, Kelly]]

What should we do when a dam page links to anothe dam page? For example, [[The Director]] links to [[Director]], but there's no way to disambiguate which particular sort of director it should link to. Should we just leave them? It would be a bit annoying to jump from dam to dam, but what else can we do? [[User:Agentsoo|Agentsoo]] 09:17, 11 August 2005 (UTC)

[[Category:American pop singers|Clarkson, Kelly]]

*How about merging them? Make ''The Director'' a redirect to ''Director'' and add its two meanings to ''Director''? I should think anyone looking for Osama bin Laden under that title (not likely, but possible) would go first to ''Director'' rather than ''The Director'' anyway, and until an article exists for it, I think ''The Director (movie)'' would live quite happily on the same dab. ~ [[User:Veledan|Veledan]] | [[User talk:Veledan|Talk]] <small>| [[Special:Contributions/Veledan|c]]</small>[[Special:Contributions/Veledan|.]] 09:44, 11 August 2005 (UTC)

[[Category:Dance Top 40 acts in United States|Clarkson, Kelly]]

[[Category:Female singers|Clarkson, Kelly]]

[[Category:Fort Worthians|Clarkson, Kelly]]

[[Category:People from Texas|Clarkson, Kelly]]

[[Category:Pop musicians|Clarkson, Kelly]]

[[Category:Pop singers|Clarkson, Kelly]]

[[Category:Reality show winners|Clarkson, Kelly]]

[[Category:Vocalists|Clarkson, Kelly]]

[[Category:Whistle register singers|Clarkson, Kelly]]

[[de:Kelly Clarkson]]

== Norman redirected to Normans and disambig page moved ==

[[es:Kelly Clarkson]]

[[fr:Kelly Clarkson]]

I was working on [[Norman]] which had links to a person a romance language spoken in part of france, a city in Oklahoma and the people. I got through about 30-40 and then realised that, with the exception of some that needed to be changed from <nowiki>[[Norman]] invasion to [[Norman invasion]]</nowiki> they were all for [[Normans]]. Also about 10 of them people had written <nowiki>[[Norman]]s</nowiki> so that the correct page would display but link to the disambig page. I decided that raher than re-map all 450 links and then watch for the few a week which would most likley show up it would make more sense to move the disambiguation page to [[Norman (disambiguation)]] and redirected to [[Normans]]. I'm new to this project though so if thats wrong, could some one let me know so I don't repeat the error. [[User:Dalf|Dalf]] | [[User talk:Dalf|Talk]] 05:32, 13 August 2005 (UTC)

[[id:Kelly Clarkson]]

[[ja:ケリー・クラークソン]]

== ''Vatican'' conspiracy theories ==

[[nl:Kelly Clarkson]]

[[no:Kelly Clarkson]]

and other refs to an occult ''Vatican'' are the things I find hardest to disambiguate. Just who ''is'' [[Jack Chick]] accusing of plotting World Wars I and II? Is it the [[Holy See]] or the [[Roman Curia]] or the [[Vatican City]] who send immortal action heroes out in numerous (I find) comic books? Who is it that conspires in so many murders, and just which ''Vatican'' will be excommunicating star systems from essentially political protection in the year 3000? I begin to wonder if a new article, [[Vatican (urban legend)]] or even [[Vatican (fantasy)]] isn't needed, and that we should be dab'ing all those kind of things to it.. but I don't feel competent to write it, and if I did I'd have to go back and undo hundreds of disambiguations, and even then the writers of the articles that refer to it would change the link: they'd insist that '''''they''' meant the '''real''' Vatican, not that '''urban legend''' article, that's only for '''stories''' that '''aren't true'''...'' etc Opinions anyone? ~ [[User:Veledan|Veledan]] 23:08, 13 August 2005 (UTC)

[[sv:Kelly Clarkson]]

:In most cases, the articles dealing with urban legends and such use ''Vatican'' to refer to the leadership of the [[Roman Catholic Church]], so the correct disambiguation would be to [[Holy See]]. However, some of them probably assert that the Holy See is '''not''' the '''actual''' leadership of the Church, so we might eventually need a [[Holy See (popular culture)]] article that would discuss the various conspiracy theories in a single place and could be used as a destination for the more problematic links. &mdash; [[User:Kirill Lokshin|Kirill Lokshin]] | [[User talk:Kirill Lokshin|Talk]] 23:52, August 13, 2005 (UTC)

:In dab-ing these pages I have had the feeling that the list of options on the dab page is incomplete. There are a lot of historical references to the Vatican that really feel like they mean [[Roman Catholic Church]], but in a sort of quasi political context that I am not sure really mean what is in the current article. Most of your urban legend stuff intersects with this too. There are also instances (and not just for Vatican) where I think that the reference itself is so ambiguous that linking to the dab page would not be inappropriate (or perhaps removing the link all together). Some specific examples that I had trouble dab-ing are [[Ratline (history)]] where I am not sure if the allegation of that the [[Holy See]] approved of and organized the activity described, or if some subset of people working in [[Vatican City]] were doing so. If its the second is [[Vatican City]] the correct link or some other article? In a conspiracy theory that only involves members of the church do we reference the church article? The Holy See? Roman Curia? [[User:Dalf|Dalf]] | [[User talk:Dalf|Talk]] 07:47, 14 August 2005 (UTC)

:: my reply got too long and specific to be on-topic here, so I've moved it back to [[Talk:Vatican]]! ~ [[User:Veledan|Veledan]] | [[User talk:Veledan|Talk]] <small>| [[Special:Contributions/Veledan|c]]</small>[[Special:Contributions/Veledan|.]] 12:23, 14 August 2005 (UTC)

== Maintenance Collaboration of the Week ==

''This page is the Maintenance Collaboration of the Week. The following comments are preserved from the nomination and voting process because they may be useful to contributors.''

----

:''Nominated 01:25, 4 August 2005 (UTC)''

; '''Support:'''

# [[User:Beland|Beland]] 01:25, 4 August 2005 (UTC)

# [[User:Missmarple|Missmarple]] 09:08, 4 August 2005 (UTC)

# [[User:Maurreen|Maurreen]] [[User_talk:Maurreen|(talk)]] 17:09, 5 August 2005 (UTC)

# [[User:Quadraxis|Quadraxis]] 22:26, 6 August 2005 (UTC)

# [[User:Sempron|Sempron]] 10:36, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

#[[User:Eric Forste|Eric Forste]] [[User_talk:Eric Forste|(Talk)]] 17:19, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

# [[User:Magicmonster|Magicmonster]] 23:03, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

# [[User:Dalf|Dalf]] | [[User talk:Dalf|Talk]] 01:49, 13 August 2005 (UTC)

; '''Comments:'''

* This is the oldest project on [[Template:Active Wiki Fixup Projects]]. (Thus it's most in danger of being neglected; this list is also getting rather long, and it would be nice to finish up a project or two.) It currently has active participants, but there is ''a lot'' of work left to be done, and I'm sure new "bad links" have been piling up since the last update. This is also a type of cleanup work that is fairly easy to do - you just need to pick which of several possibilities the referring article meant to link to. (It's kind of a fun lesson in vocabulary and ambiguity.) -- [[User:Beland|Beland]] 01:25, 4 August 2005 (UTC)

* I'm one of the (occasional) active participants. Frankly, I don't think making this a maintenance CoTW will help it much. As [[User:Beland|Beland]] stated, the list is getting long, new entries aren't getting added, and there's a lot to be done still. The project is going nowhere. What's worse is that this is likely something that will need to be done continuously in the future, even if this project ever completes. The way it's going now clearly promises trouble ahead for links to dab pages. In my opinion, this is what is needed for this project to complete, and to be repeated in the future:

## more frequent database dumps, so the list can be updated more often.

## a "whatlinkshere" tool that ignores User and Talk pages, which only clutter the picture for this project.

## a [[User:Humanbot]] style tool should be possible to write, and could make fixing these pages LOTS faster. However, the first 2 points above are required for this, as well as machine-parsable output of "whatlinkshere". -- [[User:Biot|Biot]] 00:33, August 5, 2005 (UTC)

* I think we need to narrow it down a bit. I suggest picking 3 (or so) of the big ones to work on. How about: [[Persia]], [[NBA]], and [[Afghan]]? if they get fixed, we could add more! --[[User:Quadraxis|Quadraxis]] 22:26, 6 August 2005 (UTC)

* I think we'd get more participation if we let people pick a topic that interests them. -- [[User:Beland|Beland]] 00:20, 7 August 2005 (UTC)

** Maybe, but i find that the number of links there overwhelms me. If we got together and picked a few to do this week/day/whatever, it might help. Maybe we should do that anyways? Just take a few of them and say they are this week's Disambiguation pages' collaboration. --[[User:Quadraxis|Quadraxis]] 02:03, 7 August 2005 (UTC)

*** I know the feeling. "Too...many...choices!...Can't...pick!" Feel free to declare a "mini-collaboration" right on that page. Though it might be less work to just say, "Hey, let's all work on the one at the top of the list, since that's the worst offender, and if we're all working on the same one, it'll be more fun." -- [[User:Beland|Beland]] 01:13, 8 August 2005 (UTC)

**** OK, i think i will. --[[User:Quadraxis|Quadraxis]] 18:58, 8 August 2005 (UTC)

*** I think it might be worthwhile to make a few lists to pick from, easy ones and harder ones. There are a number of them that may have lots of links but are really easy to determin what is intended. That way people can start easy and work their way up. [[User:Dalf|Dalf]] | [[User talk:Dalf|Talk]] 04:29, 13 August 2005 (UTC)

*I've done some work on Greek, Chinese, and British, and lately I've been gnawing at Persia. --[[User:Eric Forste|Eric Forste]] [[User_talk:Eric Forste|(Talk)]] 09:09, 11 August 2005 (UTC)

**Excellent - Greek and British are on my list of usual suspects as well. I've also discovered that regularly fixing new disambigs is a good way to dig up articles that should be deleted, or need other attention (sub-sorting, categorization, etc.). --[[User:BDAbramson|<font style="background: lightgreen">&nbsp;BDAbramson</font>]] [[User talk:BDAbramson|^<b>talk</b>]] 00:36, August 14, 2005 (UTC)

== Can't .... See..... Choices...... ==

Having completed categories listed I agree as a good idea, but I was wondering if I could perhaps seperate finished from unfinished so my poor olde eyes can see exactly which ones are finished and which are not. [[User:Magicmonster|Magicmonster]] 01:12, 14 August 2005 (UTC)

== COTW and IRC ==

Is there a channel on the wikipedia [[m:IRC instructions|IRC]] chat for people working on disambiguation to chat and ask questions in real time? I just get all set up and joined but did not see anything obvious in the channel listing. It might be a good idea to set up a room at least while its the COTW and link to instructions on the project page. I suspect it might prevent some bad disambiguation form happening. [[User:Dalf|Dalf]] | [[User talk:Dalf|Talk]] 07:51, 14 August 2005 (UTC)

== Help disambiguating ''Period'' ==

I've come unstuck almost immediately with this one, and have withdrawn my hand till I get advice on how to proceed!

Most of the links to '''''Period''''' are linking to the technical meaning of an interval, a lapse of time. The opposite of [[frequency]]. This is the one meaning that is defined in the dab but has no article, probably because it's too general a meaning to have an article longer than a dictionary definition. Any anyway, it's the opposite of ''frequency'' and its definition in the dab links to that article. So it'll probably '''never''' have an article. I can't link them to ''frequency'' because that would cause either confusion, or me having to re-word every sentence it appeared in. Should I de-link? Create a stub that pretends to be an article, but which is really just a specialised dab, linking to ''frequency'' or other pages? Redirect to wiktionary? Help! ~ [[User:Veledan|Veledan]] | [[User talk:Veledan|Talk]] <small>| [[Special:Contributions/Veledan|c]]</small>[[Special:Contributions/Veledan|.]] 21:31, 14 August 2005 (UTC)

:I am trying to imagine how [[frequency]] is the opposite of '''Period''', to my thinking '''Period''' when used this way means an [[Interval (time)|interval]], while frequency means a number of intervals within a larger interval. Perhaps we can re-direct the time refrence to [[Interval (time)]]? If so we should probble create and redirect [[Period (time)]] to [[Interval (time)]]. [[User:Dalf|Dalf]] | [[User talk:Dalf|Talk]] 21:59, 14 August 2005 (UTC)

::Oh yuck. So poking around this one some more I have found some other problems. First the links that get here via the redirect at [[periodic]] don't seem to fit with any of the articles listed. [[wiktionary:periodic]] meaning:

::#relative to a period or periods

::#having repeated cycles

::#ocurring at regular intervals

::So I thought I woudl be clever and redirect [[periodic] to [[recurring]] only recurring is a redirect to [[Recurring character]] which feels oh so very wrong on many many levels. I think the best idea might actually be to add an article or wiktionary link for the periodic articles and do somethign about the recurring redirect too though I am not sure what just yet. [[User:Dalf|Dalf]] | [[User talk:Dalf|Talk]] 22:14, 14 August 2005 (UTC)

::Frequency is the opposite of period in the sense that their units cancel each other out - a period or interval is expressed in a unit of time (e.g. seconds) while frequency is expressed in a unit of "per time" (e.g. [[Hertz]] = 1 per second = 1/second). Is it too confusing to dab and link directly to [[Interval (time)]]? Is that any less confusing that linking to [[Period (time)]] as a redirect to [[Interval (time)]]? In any case, I don't think linking ot [[frequency]] is a good idea, so that actually has the ''opposite'' meaning to period when used in this context.

--[[User:Tiffanicita|Tiffanicita]] 21:49, August 17, 2005 (UTC)

:::Well, I didn't read this before I dove right into "period," I'm afraid, but wherever I hit these issues, I either redirected to [[periodicity]] or [[Interval (time)]], depending on which seemed appropriate. If I wasn't certain, I included a note in the edit summary explaining the disambiguation, so that the folks working on those articles will (hopefully) take a closer look and redirect it somewhere more appropriate if I got it wrong. In any event, it's done! Only talk and user pages left. --[[User:Brian Olsen|Brian Olsen]] 07:42, August 30, 2005 (UTC)

:::I disagree. In this context when we say opposit we mean antonym which is not in any way associated with reciprocity, which is what we have here. Being inverse in dimension represents a diffrnt type of relationship than opposits. You cannot add periods and frequency together and have them cancle, It is a multiplicative relationship. More importantly I think, the type of relationship here is a good way of explainign the concept, because the real world implications of the relationship is somethign less abstract that people can associate with and understand. Sorry if my thinking here is hard to folow, but basically in normal language when people think of the word opposits they think in terms of addative or qualitative properties; North is the Opposite of south (both mesured in distance), Hot is the opposie of cold (both mesures of relative tempature). The problem is that Hertz is 1 '''SOMETHING''' per second, the seconds do cancel out but then you are still left with ''count'' of something, clock cycles or wavelengths or some such and whatever you ar left with is not the same sort of thign as either of the two thigns that you are claiming as opposites. If you combined 20 meters north with 20 meters south you are left with zero meters. Ok I am rambling now, basically I think the link to frequency is useful in understanding the concept. [[User:Dalf|Dalf]] | [[User talk:Dalf|Talk]] 05:21, 1 September 2005 (UTC)

::::Aye, I meant '''reciprocal''', inversely proportional, y = 1/x. '''Opposite''' in the same sense that ''one third'' is the opposite of ''triple''. If you ''double'' the ''period'' between two occurrences of an event, you ''halve'' the ''frequency'' of that event.

::::Dalf, the timestamp on your edit and the typos you've allowed to remain in your usually immaculate prose give a handy example of the other sense of ''opposite'' you were describing: the always-antagonistic relationship between time spent editing Wikipedia and time spent in sleep :-) ~ [[User:Veledan|Veledan]] • [[User talk:Veledan|Talk]] ^{[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Veledan&action=edit&section=new + new]} 19:39, 1 September 2005 (UTC)

== Blue bonnet strangeness ==

I don't know if this is the correct place to recommend a disambiguation, but

*"Blue bonnet" redirects to the bird

*"Blue bonnet'''S'''" redirects to "Peacekeeping"? blue helmets?

*"bluebonnets" the Texas state flower

--[[User:K.Nevelsteen|Kim Nevelsteen]] 19:43, 16 August 2005 (UTC) (I am too new to know how to create a disamb page)

*A disambig page is created like any other article - list the terms and their respective meanings, and put a <nowiki>{{disambig}}</nowiki> tag on the bottom. Follow the basic style from other disambig pages in terms of wording and formatting. Cheers! --[[User:BDAbramson|<font style="background: lightgreen">&nbsp;BDAbramson</font>]] [[User talk:BDAbramson|^<b>talk</b>]] 20:04, August 16, 2005 (UTC)

==Will this ever end?==

I sometimes wonder if we can ever complete this project. We really need some kind of tool to catch the new dam links as they come in. I can't imagine it would be that difficult to write, would it? At the moment, we seem to have so much to do that, by the time we finish it, the new dump will come along with a whole lot more links to dam pages. A more permanent solution would be very useful. [[User:Agentsoo|Soo]] 00:24, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

:PS Even assuming that all our link counts are correct (they often underestimate) and all the ones that are done really are done (ones that were 'done' a long time ago often grow back), we still have over 17 thousands pages to fix. That's a hell of a lot of work and would make the time spent writing some kind of assisting tool well worth it. [[User:Agentsoo|Soo]] 00:36, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

::Done below 12 thousand now, just ten days later. I feel optimistic again! [[User:Agentsoo|Soo]] 18:37, 27 August 2005 (UTC)

:::4 days later, and it's down to 8744. I'm sure the numbers aren't that accurate but surely that's progress. [[User:Agentsoo|Soo]] 18:01, 31 August 2005 (UTC)

*What sort of output do you imagine for it Soo? A simple bot that counted the 'what links here?' for each problem page regularly, and updated this page with the totals? Or do you mean building on an assisted user interface like [[Meta:solve disambiguation.py|solve disambiguation.py]] (the dab equivalent of Humanbot)? I've tried that but I didn't like not being able to look over the whole article, even though you can repeatedly double the amount of context visible until you have the whole article in a text window if you wish. I kept switching from the text window and bringing up the same article in my browser, which kind of defeats the speed advantage (tho once you've done it and finished reading, it's still nice to be able to switch back to the text window and only have to press 2 keys to actually perform the disambiguation). I've been wondering whether it's convenient menu-option disambiguation could be adapted to an interface that showed the whole page in its normal context. ~ [[User:Veledan|Veledan]] • [[User talk:Veledan|Talk]] ^{[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Veledan&action=edit&section=new + new]} 08:55, 20 August 2005 (UTC)

:I think a modification to mediawiki to put up a warning when a person likes to a DAB page, with an easy way for them to look at the DAB page in question withouth going away from or saving their edit (maybe a link that will open up a tab or a new window) woudl be worthwhile. I think including a '''''How to disambiguate''''' section on the talk page of any DAB that is not totally obvious is a good plan as well. An assisted editing interface would be more difficult than Humanbot and a bit dangerious. The bot could never make theactual DAB choice though making it an easy slection with ability to modify the text displayed (defaulting to not changing whatever is displayed in the article) would be a nice start. So long whatever articles got DABed with it had to be set up in advance it would prevent people from going really fast and doing a bunch of them wrong. [[User:Dalf|Dalf]] | [[User talk:Dalf|Talk]] 19:43, 20 August 2005 (UTC)

::I think most people agree that solve_disambiguation.py is well-intended but extremely awkward to use. However, it does take care of what I find to be the most time-consuming part, i.e. locating the link within the page. I agree that some kind of warning should come up when you create a link to a DAB page, although not in a new window. Maybe something like the Edit Conflict window, with a "save anyway" button if the link to the dam page is deliberate. This wouldn't solve every problem (e.g [[NBA]], which is not itself a dam page), but it would greatly reduce it. It would probably have to be a setting which users can disable if they want, too. At the moment this sounds like a clumsy solution to a tough problem, so better ideas are welcome. [[User:Agentsoo|Soo]] 23:25, 20 August 2005 (UTC)

:::I was thinking somethign like '''Warning: You have created a link to <nowiki>{{{1}}}</nowiki> which is a disambiguation page and may not point to the article you intend. You may want to visit the page and select a more specific article fomr the list provided'''. Where "visit the page" is a link that perhaps targets a new tab or window (Though I suppose that might violae some sort of wikipedia standard). [[User:Dalf|Dalf]] | [[User talk:Dalf|Talk]] 00:34, 21 August 2005 (UTC)

:::I think there are other features which open in a new window, so that sounds a perfectly good solution to me. Can we propose it to the MediaWiki lot? I would code it myself but PHP is one of my programming blindspots. [[User:Agentsoo|Soo]] 19:34, 21 August 2005 (UTC)

== Rush ==

Okay, in trying to fix the links to [[Rush]] I'm baffled by the links in [[Grand Theft Auto III soundtrack]]. The reference there is obviously not to [[Rush (band)]]. (I've played the game, too.) I can't find ANY information on the apparent rap/hip-hop artist "Rush" except that it ''might'' be [[Russell Simmons]]. http://www.allmusic.com lists "Rush" in the rap genre, but has absolutely no information.

Anybody have a clue?

[[User:Aeverett|Al]] 15:18, 18 August 2005 (UTC)

== American redirect ==

It has been suggested that [[American]] be redirected to [[United States]], and the contents of [[American]] be moved to [[American (disambiguation)]].

A lot of "American" wikilinks currently should be directed to "United States", so this change would result saving a lot of work. --[[User:Commander Keane|Commander Keane]] 07:35, August 20, 2005 (UTC)

*In light of the enormous number of links to "American" (over 5,000) and the fact that the vast majority of them clearly are intended to point to [[United States]], redirecting "American" to United States, with a <nowiki>{{redirect|American}}</nowiki> tag atop that page (see [[NBA]] for an example) makes eminent sense. Bear in mind, this issue has been hashed out before (see [[Talk:Use of the word American]] for the discussion), but I believe the result of that discussion simply does not work for Wikipedia, given the constantly growing army of links to "American". --[[User:BDAbramson|<font style="background: lightgreen">&nbsp;BDAbramson</font>]] [[User talk:BDAbramson|^<b>talk</b>]] 07:43, August 20, 2005 (UTC)

**I'd be all for it. [[User:Agentsoo|Soo]] 08:31, 20 August 2005 (UTC)

***Does this mean, once the change is made, all of the links we were going to fix up by going to "What links here" for [[American]] will now all be mixed up with "What links here" for [[United States]]? --[[User:Commander Keane|Commander Keane]] 10:34, August 20, 2005 (UTC)

***No, you can run the "What links here" tool on a redirect page and it will only show the pages linking to that particular redirect. [[User:Agentsoo|Soo]] 11:13, 20 August 2005 (UTC)

*Since the actual meaning and correct use of ''American'' is divisive to a large number of people, I feel it is better to keep [[American]] and [[America]] as dab pages. This is especially true until WP decides whether to pipe the name of the country to link to a nationality or use articles such as [[Irish people]]. -[[User:Acjelen|Acjelen]] 14:19, 20 August 2005 (UTC)

* If it helps make lihnks go to where they should do then I don't see a reason not to do so. {{user:Celestianpower/sig}} 19:15, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

**I think the reason the make [[American]] a redirect to [[United States]] is that, for etenity, editors are going to wikilink "American", thinking that it goes to "United States". How are we going to get on top of other, genuine, dab's with links when [[American]] is bogging us down? --[[User:Commander Keane|Commander Keane]] 13:42, August 24, 2005 (UTC)

***I've decided not to worry about it. There are other disambigs that are more important to address, i.e., those where the person seeking information in Wikipedia has no idea what the linked term is actually supposed to point to. If I say "Aerosmith is an [[American]] rock band, everyone knows what I mean by "American," and the user who is taken to the current disambiguation page will know to go from there to [[United States]] for more info. If I say, one of Aerosmith's best concerts was in [[Springfield]], users following the link will be at a loss to figure out which Springfield it was. If I say they recently recorded a [[Greek (disambiguation)|Greek]] song, users will want to know if the song was actually in [[Greek language|Greek]], or originated in [[Greece]], or merely sounded [[Music of Greece|Greek]]. I therefore vote that we '''procrastinate''' on addressing the thorny "American" issue, and work on the thousands of uncontroversial disambiguations that remain. --[[User:BDAbramson|<font style="background: lightgreen">&nbsp;''BDAbramson''</font>]] [[User talk:BDAbramson|^<b>talk</b>]] 14:02, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

* The problem with leaving nationality links alone is that it encourages undisambiguated links to other nationalities where there are serious ambiguities. Links to genuinely unambiguous nationalities such as [[Australian]] and [[Pakistani]] encourage this too. A flurry of link disambiguation or bypassing, preferably with links to this page from the edit summaries and possibly using bots, is the answer. (sorr, forgot to sign. [[User:Susvolans|Susvolans]] [[User talk:Susvolans|⇔]] 15:44, 25 August 2005 (UTC))

===America===

:''Moved from the article page. [[User:Agentsoo|Soo]] 14:51, 25 August 2005 (UTC)''

All of the links I've fixed so far should go to [[United States of America]]. We might consider automatically redirecting 'American' there. [[User:Franzeska|Franzeska]] 05:59, 20 August 2005 (UTC)

*Actually, [[United States of America]] is a redirect to [[United States]]. I would agree with redirecting "American" there, with a link to the [[American (disambiguation)]] page at the top. --[[User:BDAbramson|<font style="background: lightgreen">&nbsp;BDAbramson</font>]] [[User talk:BDAbramson|^<b>talk</b>]] 06:27, August 20, 2005 (UTC)

*I also agree with redirecting America, but we need to know if we should do it or not.... [[User:Magicmonster|Magicmonster]] 13:41, 25 August 2005 (UTC)

== Automation ==

What sort of tools exist for automating this process? &mdash; [[User:Pekinensis|Pekinensis]] 16:04, 20 August 2005 (UTC)

:As far as I know, none. The above guide to efficient manual damming is about all we have. [[User:Agentsoo|Soo]] 16:50, 20 August 2005 (UTC)

:Have a look at [[Meta:solve disambiguation.py|solve disambiguation.py]] but first you will want to look at [[WP:BOTS|the Wikipedia bot policy]].

::Thank you. &mdash; [[User:Pekinensis|Pekinensis]] 02:10, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

== Tatar vs. Tatars ==

The disambiguation page [[Tatar]] currently has a lot of links to it. I worked on it for a while and found that of the first 20 links 18 of them were to [[Tatars]] of which people had actually displayed the text '''Tatars''' while linking to '''Tatar'''. The other two links were mostly wikified incorrectly <nowiki>Crimean [[Tatar]]s changed to [[Crimean Tatars]]</nowiki>. My inclination is to move the disambiguaiton page to [[Tatar (disambiguation)]] (currently a redirect) and redirect Tatar to Tatars. However, it looks like Tatars use to live at Tatar and was moved intentionally. I left a note similar to this on [[Talk: Tatars]] a few days ago but have not got any response. Should I go ahead and re-arrange the articles as described aboe then check through the links for any that should be changed? [[User:Dalf|Dalf]] | [[User talk:Dalf|Talk]] 21:30, 20 August 2005 (UTC)

:I'd check through first, then move. But the general plan sounds good. [[User:Agentsoo|Soo]] 23:27, 20 August 2005 (UTC)

::Well theres only about a hundred or so left anyway, I had actually thought about correcting them anyway then redirecting as above. But, then I decided that having the links redirect probbly was not that big a resource spender anyway. I'll go thourhg them tonight then redirect. [[User:Dalf|Dalf]] | [[User talk:Dalf|Talk]] 00:29, 21 August 2005 (UTC)

:::Ok in passing through the articles leaving any instances that shoudl refer to Tatars I ended up with:

:::* '''6''' instances that should have been '''Tatar language''' (5 in first sentences of articles followed by the spelling in that language, though most such uses in the articles I looked at were correctly linked).

:::*'''5''' more instances of '''Crimean Tatars''', 3 of which had Crimean Tatar(s) displayed but were linked to the DAB. There were a few cases that were really hard to DAB when it was not clear if Tatars or Crimean Tatars was intended. I think this difficulty might be the reasoning behind why the pages are set up like they currently are. Still we are talking about a small % of links. There are many instances of the term that clearly refers to both groups collectivly, and I have a feeling that the decision to make the term a DAB page had no small amount of national pride involved in it (a much smaller scale version of [[Use of the word American]]).

:::So with the other links that I corrected before that leaves us about 9% of the links going to the DAB page that do not mean [[Tatars]]. GIven this I am not sure if moving the page and changing it to a redirect is the best option. There is still the fact that around half of all the uses of Tatar'''s''' the editors have intentionally linked to the version with no 's' thinking it to be the correct page. Also almost all of the links that do not go to Tatars are cases that I would class as editor error and not actual ambiguity. So which way do you think we shoudl do it? (FWIW if we decided that moving thigns around is a bad idea then DABing the page shoudl be very simple as all the links that are left there are need to be '''Tatar''' since I already did the others.) [[User:Dalf|Dalf]] | [[User talk:Dalf|Talk]] 21:27, 21 August 2005 (UTC)

::::As [[User:Agentsoo|Soo]] pointed out to me its been a while waiting on this and no one has objected so I am going to go ahead and make this change. [[User:Dalf|Dalf]] | [[User talk:Dalf|Talk]] 21:00, 4 September 2005 (UTC)

== Please try to avoid tunnel vision ==

Concentrating on one word at a time is a necessity, but when you come across an article with multiple similar links (e.g. a Scandinavian history article containing <nowiki>[[Danish]], [[Norwegian]], and [[Swedish]]</nowiki>), the right thing to do is to fix all of them rather than just the one you're working on. Otherwise, the article history gets filled up with multiple edits by different people but with identical summaries, which is inefficient and looks silly.

*Multiple edits in the history looks "silly"? I don't think it is such a problem, the edit history is invisble to the casual reader, and the methods I use to maximise my effiency (highlighting in Firefox etc) for dab's with links enhances tunnel vision, and I don't think it can be avoided. I try my best though. --[[User:Commander Keane|Commander Keane]] 10:17, August 26, 2005 (UTC)

== [[Afghan]] collaboration ==

*If someone is "An Afghan writer", does Afghan redirect to [[Afghanistan]] or [[Afghan people]]? --[[User:Commander Keane|Commander Keane]] 08:51, August 29, 2005 (UTC) <small>moved here from main project page by [[User:RussBlau|Russ Blau]] [[User_talk:RussBlau|(talk)]] 16:09, August 29, 2005 (UTC)</small>

**In my opinion, if they were writing in the 20th or 21st century, I would redirect to [[Afghanistan]]. Before the mid-18th century, when there was no Afghan state as such, I would redirect to [[Afghan people]]. The period from 1746 to 1919 is ambiguous, and you'd probably have to look at the individual's biography in more detail to resolve it. --[[User:RussBlau|Russ Blau]] [[User_talk:RussBlau|(talk)]] 16:09, August 29, 2005 (UTC)

***My general practice is to redirect nationality disambig links in articles about people to the "Foo people" article, if one exists. An Afghan writer is still one of the Afghan people, even if he travels abroad. Cheers! --[[User:BDAbramson|<font style="background: lightgreen">&nbsp;''BDAbramson''</font>]] [[User talk:BDAbramson|^<b>talk</b>]] 03:14, 30 August 2005 (UTC)

**By that approach, Ernest Hemingway becomes an "<nowiki>[[English people|English]]</nowiki> author." :-) I'm not saying you're wrong, just that you need to consider the context and not apply ''any'' rule inflexibly. [[User:RussBlau|Russ Blau]] [[User_talk:RussBlau|(talk)]] 11:44, August 30, 2005 (UTC)

***It could also refer to the language he was writing in. I find this is more often the case with poets. It can sometimes be hard to resolve either way. I tend to redirect to the country as a last resort, since it's probably not perfect but at least sometimes seems to follow the "path of least surprise" when someone clicks on the link. --[[User:Agentsoo|Soo]] 16:45, 30 August 2005 (UTC)

== Hints n' Tips ==

While going through the disambiguation collaborations, I have found that many of the disambiguation pages don't have everything that it could link to, example: [[Greek Orthodox Church|Byzantine]] seems to occasionally link to the Greek Orthodox Church, which isn't on the disambig page. We could have a section for each major disambig, so that if we have to reopen a previously finished disambig, we have help and don't have to rediscover things like [[Byzantine emperors]]. [[User:Magicmonster|Magicmonster]] 02:32, 31 August 2005 (UTC)

:This is a good idea. For instance I've used on occasion <nowiki>[[</nowiki>[[Byzantine music]]<nowiki>|Byzantine]]</nowiki> (not on disambig page) in adition to your two examples. Also, there were cases where it would have been nice to use [[Byzantine law]] and [[Byzantine culture]] if they had existed. I just wanted to mention this in case they show up in the future. [[User:Whitejay251|Whitejay251]] 05:01, 31 August 2005 (UTC)

== Specific lists ==

The [[Wikipedia:Disambiguation_pages_with_links#Specific_lists|Specific lists]] section seems to be just like [[Wikipedia:Disambiguation pages maintenance]]. Should we move the contents there instead? --[[User:Commander Keane|Commander Keane]] 11:31, August 31, 2005 (UTC)

*Good idea. The "Specific lists" section probably should be replaced with something like:<br>

<nowiki>==Additional pages needing monitoring==</nowiki><br>

<nowiki>''See'' [[Wikipedia:Disambiguation pages maintenance]] for lists of disambiguation pages needing to be monitored for new links.</nowiki><br>

:If no one objects, I'll make the change in a day or two. --[[User:RussBlau|Russ Blau]] [[User_talk:RussBlau|(talk)]] 14:56, August 31, 2005 (UTC)

== Byzantine collaboration ==

===Moved from Mainpage:===

[[Afghan]] is done&mdash;thanks to everyone who helped! I hesitate to suggest [[Persia]] for the next collaboration; I tried it once and found it extremely tricky. How about [[Byzantine]]? --[[User:RussBlau|Russ Blau]] [[User_talk:RussBlau|(talk)]] 17:53, August 29, 2005 (UTC)

I vote for [[Byzantine]] as well, doing [[Persia]] could flirt dangerously with having a collaboration that has no motivation into it. [[User:Magicmonster|Magicmonster]] 00:09, 30 August 2005 (UTC)

Persia is a sticky issue; it will need at least one person with a significant degree of expertise in the area who is also willing to put a lot of time into the project. So I agree that [[Byzantine]] is a much better choice. --[[User:Agentsoo|Soo]] 15:09, 30 August 2005 (UTC)

I've been working on [[Byzantine]] for the last couple of days. [[Byzantine]] was until recntly a redirect to [[Byzantine Empire]] and then changed to disambig, so most will be <nowiki>[[Byzatine Empire|Byzantine]]</nowiki> (of course, there's again the issue of where an adjective such as "Byzantine" describing a person should point). [[User:Whitejay251|Whitejay251]] 15:58, 30 August 2005 (UTC)

Goodness, this one is going faster than anticipated.... Already down to under 200 [[User:Magicmonster|Magicmonster]] 02:13, 31 August 2005 (UTC)

===Completion===

Finished this morning. The following four are a bit mysterious to me:

*[[Plans and interiors of Mentmore]] (my thought is this would best go to [[Byzantine furniture]] which is so obscure, I doubt it shows up, or maybe a section on Byzantine furniture in [[Byzantine art|art]] or [[Byzantine architecture|architecture]])

*[[Soviet law]] (should be [[Byzantine law]])

**Byzantine law is, in fact, [[Roman law]]. The major codification of Roman law was completed by [[Justinian]] after the Western Empire had been extinguished. --[[User:RussBlau|Russ Blau]] [[User_talk:RussBlau|(talk)]] 18:44, August 31, 2005 (UTC)

*[[Miniature (illuminated manuscript)]], [[Imperial Crown of the Holy Roman Empire]] (it's not at all clear to me how byzantine is being used in these cases - [[Byzantine art|art]]??)

Of course in all these cases we can use the hammer of <nowiki>[[Byzantine Empire|Byzantine]]</nowiki>.

===Database dump===

Wouldn't it be nice to have a new database dump? A lot of the estimates for number of pages that need fixing are very wrong now. Is there someone we can pester? [[User:Agentsoo|Soo]] 15:48, 2 September 2005 (UTC)

== Namespace selection in "What links here" ==

Since we only need to fix up links in the Main namespace, wouldn't it be useful to be able to view only the Main namespace in the "What links here" page. What we need is the namespace slector that is available in "Special:Contributions". How do we go about getting that. I'm not too familar with the [http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/ bugzilla] method, if that's what needs to be done. --[[User:Commander Keane|Commander Keane]] 07:59, September 5, 2005 (UTC)

:I seem to remember this being selected before. It would really make life a lot easier, and would be very straightforward to write for anyone that knows PHP. Anyone want to volunteer? [[User:Agentsoo|Soo]] 11:07, 5 September 2005 (UTC)

::I was thinking that you can put in a feature request, since the code must exist for "Special:Contributions". I imagine you can request it at [[Wikipedia:Feature request]] or [http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/ bugzilla], just thought a more expereinced editor may know the most effective way. --[[User:Commander Keane|Commander Keane]] 11:21, September 5, 2005 (UTC)

:::After a question at the Village pump, it seems that the namespace feature is too much work for the server. --[[User:Commander Keane|Commander Keane]] 01:25, September 13, 2005 (UTC)

== Persian and Turk ==

The "What links here" for [[Persian]] and [[Turk]] are rather difficult. Perhaps for frequently linked to dab's we could have a section on the dab's talk (eg entitled "What link here") with tips for discerning the appropriate destination of the various incoming links. I'm sure this would help for [[Persian]] and [[Turk]], and all the other dab's with links also. --[[User:Commander Keane|Commander Keane]] 03:03, September 8, 2005 (UTC)

== Hyderabad ==

Cleared 100+ entries on [[Hyderabad]] yesterday & today (too slow for 24 hours? ;)). 85% of them link to [[Hyderabad, India]], 10% to [[Hyderabad, Pakistan]] and 5% to [[Hyderabad State]]. (almost disambiguated all [[Hyderabad, India]] entries. Of the unfinished job left, majority would be of [[Hyderabad, Pakistan]] with some to [[Hyderabad State]]). So, I was wondering if [[Hyderabad]] should lead directly to [[Hyderabad, India]] with 2 disambiguation links on that page. Any views? ---[[User:Gurubrahma|Gurubrahma]] 07:44, 8 September 2005 (UTC)

*I have moved you question to [[Talk:Hyderabad]], discussion should continue there, but it was good to put something on this talk page too.

*About 100 edits in 24 hours, I think any contribution is good, no matter the time taken, and the time taken to dab's with links is really dependent on the difficulty, so time doesn't mean much. I just hope you didn't get [[Repetitive strain injury|RSI]]. --[[User:Commander Keane|Commander Keane]] 08:17, September 8, 2005 (UTC)

**My record is ~600 in a day and my only injury was a slightly sore left little finger, so don't fear. [[User:Agentsoo|Soo]] 09:48, 8 September 2005 (UTC)

**When I did ~400 in 24 hours my hand started hurting. I don't have the endurance of [[User:Agentsoo|Soo]]. --[[User:Commander Keane|Commander Keane]] 10:05, September 8, 2005 (UTC)

*I relinked close to 150 disambiguated links to Hyderabad (not at a stretch though), the remaining are either dead pages or very ambiguous. As Gurubrahma noted most linked to Hyderabad, India, I think we should redirect Hyderabad to Hyderabad, India. --[[User:SwiftRakesh|SwiftRakesh]] 11:57, 8 September 2005 (UTC)

== New dump coming ==

It looks like the database dump started on [[2005-09-09]] may finish any day now. In anticipation of this, I wrote an analysis script that handles the new XML dump format. It can be found at [[User:Bo Lindbergh/dabalyze]]. Comments and suggestions welcome. [[User:Bo Lindbergh|Bo Lindbergh]] 22:43, September 11, 2005 (UTC)

:Thanks for working on the technical side of things, it's really appreciated.

::I think when the new list is generated, that significant time should be allocated to sorting out if an article should remain a dab. A couple of months in from the last dump and [[Vice-Chancellor]] stills lies in limbo. --[[User:Commander Keane|Commander Keane]] 15:47, September 12, 2005 (UTC)

Aaand it's finished! Downloading now. [[User:Bo Lindbergh|Bo Lindbergh]] 03:03, 14 September 2005 (UTC)

:Report re-generated. [[User:Bo Lindbergh|Bo Lindbergh]] 06:23, 14 September 2005 (UTC)

== Turk not on new list ==

:<small>I've transplanted this from the the project page --[[User:Commander Keane|Commander Keane]] 10:45, 14 September 2005 (UTC)</small>

So why didn't [[Turk]] even show up on the new list? That's kind of embarassing that the current collaboration isn't on the list. (Not that very many people are working on it anyway.) [[User:Whitejay251|Whitejay251]] 06:37, 14 September 2005 (UTC)

:If it's not on the list then the collaboration has worked somewhat, there are less than 100 links (main namespace), I don't think that's embarassing. --[[User:Commander Keane|Commander Keane]] 10:45, 14 September 2005 (UTC)

::There look like quite a lot including redirects. [[User:Susvolans|Susvolans]] [[User talk:Susvolans|⇔]] 10:58, 14 September 2005 (UTC)

::::It seemed to be around 100 (incl. redirects) and after discounting user pages and Wikipedia space, I can understadn why it's not on the list. --[[User:Commander Keane|Commander Keane]] 11:14, 14 September 2005 (UTC)

::I'll admit I was a bit hasty in my comment, and all because 1. I didn't click "next 50" a second time and 2. since it hasn't been wrapped up and I haven't worked on it, that it's not getting sufficient attention. Has it turned out to be an especially sticky one? I do feel like I should probably help on it. [[User:Whitejay251|Whitejay251]] 12:22, 14 September 2005 (UTC)

:I'm working on a new version of the analyzer that chases redirects. [[User:Bo Lindbergh|Bo Lindbergh]] 16:15, 14 September 2005 (UTC)

::And with redirects included, [[Turk]] is back. [[User:Bo Lindbergh|Bo Lindbergh]] 22:24, 14 September 2005 (UTC)

==Old list==

I've placed the old list [[Wikipedia:Disambiguation pages with links/June 23 2005 database dump|here]], hope that's ok.

Also, do we need the "Suggestions for improvement" section, I've never come across a <nowiki>{{msg:disambig}}</nowiki>? --[[User:Commander Keane|Commander Keane]] 11:14, 14 September 2005 (UTC)

:The <nowiki>{{msg:</nowiki> syntax for templates is obsolete and was removed from all pages before we went to MediaWiki 1.5. [[User:Susvolans|Susvolans]] [[User talk:Susvolans|⇔]] 16:32, 14 September 2005 (UTC)

::But there's nothing to stop people from reintroducing it.

::# [[Arian]]

::# [[CLU]]

::# [[Ester (disambiguation)]]

::# [[Hercule]]

::# [[John Hooke]]

::# [[John Wray]]

::# [[June bug]]

::# [[Lords and Ladies]]

::# [[Major League]]

::# [[Nancy Allen]]

::# [[Red Cedar]]

::# [[RH]]

::# [[Richard Hatch]]

::# [[SEPP]]

::# [[Substantive]]

::# [[Uncle Jesse]]

::[[User:Bo Lindbergh|Bo Lindbergh]] 18:10, 14 September 2005 (UTC)

== Two birds with one stone ==

Using a search/replace bot, I was able to identify and correct over 100 pages that contained the phrase "<code><nowiki>[[album]] by [[American]]</nowiki></code>", invariably followed by "band", "singer", "rock band", etc., thereby reducing the counts for both of our top two targets. Adventurous participants might want to try searching for other double-disambigs like "<code><nowiki>[[album]] by [[German]]</nowiki></code>", "<code><nowiki>[[album]] by [[British]]</nowiki></code>", etc. --[[User:RussBlau|Russ Blau]] [[User_talk:RussBlau|(talk)]] 20:31, 18 September 2005 (UTC)

*Ah, be careful of those - many articles that mention <nowiki>[[album]]</nowiki> in the opening line also have the same link in an infobox! --[[User:BDAbramson|<font style="background: lightgreen">&nbsp;''BDAbramson''</font>]] [[User talk:BDAbramson|^<b>talk</b>]] 20:37, 18 September 2005 (UTC)

== [[District attorney]] ==

[[District attorney]] should ''not'' be a disambig - the two choices it purports to disambig between are virtually the same officials at different levels of government. I intend to make it an actual article on the office, and all the current disambig links will be fine pointing to that article. --[[User:BDAbramson|<font style="background: lightgreen">&nbsp;''BDAbramson''</font>]] [[User talk:BDAbramson|^<b>talk</b>]] 00:00, 19 September 2005 (UTC)

:I'd generally get some consensus before making a change like this one, like at [[Talk:Alice in Wonderland]]. --[[User:Commander Keane|Commander Keane]] 12:19, 19 September 2005 (UTC)

:[[User:BDAbramson]]'s proposal seems sensible to me. [[Wikipedia:Be bold]] [[User:Stewartadcock|Stewart Adcock]] 13:33, 19 September 2005 (UTC)

::Posted my intent here for exactly that reason - but to be sure, I've also posted a similar notice at [[Talk:District attorney]]. I'll wait a few days to see if anyone has a thoughtful objection, and in the meantime draft an article on a temp page. Cheers! --[[User:BDAbramson|<font style="background: lightgreen">&nbsp;''BDAbramson''</font>]] [[User talk:BDAbramson|^<b>talk</b>]] 14:02, 19 September 2005 (UTC)

== Experimental popups-assisted disambiguation ==

I've added some functionality to [[{{User:Lupin/navpopups}}|my popups tool]] which should help with disambiguation. To enable it, you should install the experimental development version of my script. If I think it's a good idea I'll migrate this feature to the stable version. To install it, edit [[User:USERNAME/monobook.js]] and add the lines

<pre>

// [[User:Lupin/popupsdev.js]] - please include this line

document.write('<script type="text/javascript" src="'

+ 'http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Lupin/popupsdev.js'

+ '&action=raw&ctype=text/javascript&dontcountme=s"></script>');

popupFixDabs=true;

</pre>

Note that it's popupsdev.js and not popups.js since this is the dev version of the script. If you already have the script installed, then replace the old installation with these lines.

To use it, hover the mouse over a link pointing to a disambiguation page. A popup should appear, and after a (hopefully short) pause, a preview of the disambig page followed by a list of possible disambiguation targets should appear. Click one of the links at the bottom of the popup to disambiguate the link. The popup can get rather long, so you may have to scroll the page to see the links at the bottom (with keyboard or mousewheel).

If this is useful, if you have an idea to improve it or if it fails to work, please [[User_talk:Lupin|let me know]]! [[User:Lupin|'''Lupin''']]|[[User_talk:Lupin|talk]]|[[Wikipedia:Tools/Navigation popups|popups]] 21:22, 23 September 2005 (UTC)

== User and talk links ==

Test