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#Redirect[[Template:Segunda Division B - Grupo 1]]
Alright, I had nothing to do, so I completely overhauled this again. Feel free to keep your goddamned egos and scene points out of this. To be honest, I give this one week before someone fucks this article up again and gets it marked for POV and cleanup.
-- [[User:Escapeartist|Escapeartist]], the original author, 01:54, 2 Jul 2005 (UTC)
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I added a "song structure" section.
my email is liquidfission@gmail.com
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Hi,
I've never editted on Wikipedia before, so I'm pretty new to this. I also don't claim to know the enitirity of Metalcore, on top of which you all have obviously been to great lengths on this page and its still far from finished. So all that said, I'm incredibly hesitant to edit it and make anything worse.
So instead I'm just gonna throw a few suggestions out for anyone who edits this page regularly.
===Gothencore??===
I have never heard of this type of music, bare in mind that there are probably a couple thousand genre names that i have never heard, the problem is that a lot of bands that I follow very closely fall into this supposed "Gothencore." I'm not saying that it doesnt exist or its a misnomer, but having traveled from D.C. to Upstate NY and all venues in beween for Metalcore shows and never having heard the name? I dont think it should be the title of the section.
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I agree, I've never heard the term Gothencore either. However, we all know what it refers to, and we do need an entry for that style, considering it's the most popular form of metalcore. I noticed that the only one that covered that style of the three subgenres listed was Fashioncore, and that's a bit unfair, since a lot of melodic death metal-core bands are not Fashioncore at all. In fact, I think Fashioncore should be gotten rid of as a metalcore category or made a separate page, as it's not really a genre of music but a derrogatory name for a few different subgenres. I added a page for the missing genre, but unfortunately I couldn't think of a better name than 'Swede-core' (at least that's one I've heard though). Everyone please take a look and add in any information that I might have missed (or a better name if you know one). Also it would be cool if someone could add in all the hyperlinks (I figured writing the article was enough time spent, heh)
-Autumn Ash 7/27/2005
===Moshcore===
Really, I dont think thats metalcore, its obviously an influence, especially on the Core part, but I'd never call it metalcore, it should have its own page I think.
-Shai Hulud... Doesn't appear on this page, which is funny because they are one of the only bands I have ever seen advertise themselves as Metalcore. They have very strong influences in both Metal and Hardcore and while their sound isnt typical metalcore (to me that means unearth ala oncoming storm or darkest hour circa so sedated) they are a very good example of metalcore.
- Style... Little is said about the musical stylings of metalcore and things that are specific to it as a genre, Drop C tuning (or Drop D), Doublebass (drums), the intricacy in guitar riffs that is typical to Metal (Opeth, Emperor) with the brutal vocals that resemble Hardcore (Throwdown, Blood for Blood), Drums that stray between the two, sometimes straightforward and fast, half-time moshes, importance of time signature (im not a drummer, so im a little lost in that dept.) Anyway, this article is historically weak, which is understandable, because everyone has different ideas about how we got where we are and where that even is, but the music is there in front of us, so describe it right? If the problem is agreeing on bands that fall into the genre "Metalcore" then lets start with a general list. I don't proclaim to be an expert on this, but I will end this post with what I believe to be a basic list of current and recent Metalcore bands, people should add or subtract as they see fit, we may find this impossible to do, but if we can get a working lst of metalcore bands, perhaps we can get this ball rolling a little better
===Mathcore===
One other thing - Mathcore is its own thing, maybe its a metalcore subgenre, maybe, but its different, but to mention that it is also called "noisecore" is terrible. (noiscore is a fine genre, hear me out) The names of the two genres imply that they are essentially polar opposites. Math Metal, and therefore Mathcore are "mathy", they are really technical and there is little or no "noise". Noisecore is noisy, its a term that is commonly missused by someone whos ear is not attuned to what they are listening to. Noisecore bands (from what I know) are not taht common and really just sound liek noise with some screaming overtop. There is no metal and barely any hardcore involved, I think its just kinda an indierock subgenre that often borders on electronic music. The closest thing to a metalcore/noisecore crossover is ( I think) The Locust. Some will disagree, thats fine, I dont even like the Locust.
That said here is a working list, add subtract, justify, most importantly, JUSTIFY. don't just delete a band and add the Blood Brothers cause you think it should be that way. Lets all try to do this with an open mind and remember that this genre is fairly obscure in the grand scheme of things and our definitions are going to be different based on geographical differences more than anything else. So I grew up outside Philly and now live in Upstate NY, this is how I see it:
==Metalcore bands==
*A life Once Lost (????),
*Age of Ruin,
*As I lay Dying,
*As Hope Dies,
*Buried Inside,
*Coalesce (??),
*Converge,
*Hamartia (listen to them, you'll see),
*If hope dies,
*It Dies Today,
*Into the Moat (elements of metalcore + spazzcore, noisier than most, still not noisecore),
*Killswitch Engage(?),
*Misery Signals,
*Saving Throw,
*Shai Hulud,
*The Red Chord (?),
*This Day forward (?),
*Unearth,
*Zao (??),
*Zombie Apocolypse,
===Atreyu is a huge maybe for me===
One more note, there is a bit of mention of Punk in all this talk. My take on it is that we are now (being IN metalcore) twice removed from Punk. Punk kindof spawned Hardcore, and thats a big Kindof (idealogically they are pretty different at their roots, nevertheless there is a lot of punk influence in hardcore, the big transition coming with bands like Bad Brains and Minor Threat). Hardcore spawned the "Core" in "metalcore" and Metal is obviously responsible for the "metal". Metal as a genre is so removed from Punk as far as roots go, that to call "Metalcore" a subgenre of either Metal, Hardcore, or Punk, isn't fully true. It's a blending of two very different styles (that sound the same to your parents), Metal and Hardcore.
Now I'm done.
==Editing disputes==
June 13th
Which asshole deleted my section on metalcore song structure?
Its one thing to clean it up, modify it, or add to it, but some idiot deleted it.
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Ok, it's pretty much agreed that this article has become mess. I've cleaned up the article somewhat, by removing the several links to bands and lists, as they do not appear in the same fashion under other music genre articles. For "External links", please only add links concerning metalcore music, ''not'' to links to a band's website (which would only cause disputes and possibly misrepresentations).
Unfortunately, I cannot solve the NPOV dispute. I'll probably watch the page, but mainly for the way it's formatted rather than its content. I hope that someone edits this article fairly, but it cannot be done if people keep on yelling out obscenities instead of solving the dispute. But please, especially, stop the name calling. It takes the article nowhere.
SCooley138,
Please do NOT delete Talk comments. If you wish to archive the discussion, refer to [[Wikipedia:How to archive a talk page]], but do not delete discussions. Even though it appears that you've been treated quite rudely, blaking pages just shows a lack of respect and it makes matters worse.
--[[User:Jivi|Jivi]] 04:20, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC)
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Disagree with you here Jivi. Take a look at this: [[Wikipedia:Remove_personal_attacks]]
This discussion has become a long series of personal attacks on bands and editors.
--[[User:SCooley138|SCooley138]] 03:27, 2 May 2005 (UTC)
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I took out some of the Avenged Sevenfold gushing, they are a good band but come on now, the release of their 3rd album hardly belongs on the general metalcore page. This page is terrible, through and through, and needs to be completely re-written. Phrases like "not for the emo kids or weak hearted" and "taken their musical direction to new heights" are for press releases, not wikipedia. Deicide81 23:16, 30 May 2005 (UTC)
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I wonder if someone should make a "[[List of metalcore bands]]" article, so all those who feel like they desperately need to expose their own or their favorite band can do it there instead of clogging up the article here.
PS. Thanks for turning an otherwise clean article into a goddamn mess. Do whatever the hell you want with it, I barely feel like bothering to edit this anymore.
PS2. To the guy who said that it mentions Most Precious Blood without mentioning Indecision: yeah, I did that. Guess what? If you're new to hardcore and metalcore, how much do you think you're going to hear about Indecision in comparison to Most Precious Blood? Yeah, that's right.
-- [[User:Escapeartist|Escapeartist]], the original author, 16:30, 10 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Like I said in my adding of the NPOV, it looks to me like whoever included "Gothencore" in here is not fond of the genre. The bit about the bands being [[drag]] didn't seem to make a lot of sense to me, I don't see bands like [[In Flames]], [[Children of Bodom]], [[Soilwork]] and such being like drag queens or said "fashioncore." In addition the writer basically says that all "Gothencore" sounds the same, whereas I belive these bands, while having a similar niché sound, hardly sound "the same." Just my 2 cents. Also, from what I have read, Gothenburg Metal pretty much = [[Melodic Death Metal]] (check the [[Death Metal]] article yourself, it references to this article), I mean that's around the area melodic death metal started, so I don't see how "Gothencore" borrows elements from what it essentially is. Come to think of it, I don't even see how this style of music has anything to do with Metalcore (which is like punk metal, right?)
Anyway, it seems that parts of this article contain some POV elements that Sp0rk was mentioning, the "harder-core-than-thou diatribes." Basically I think this article needs the entire part about "Gothencore" removed or re-worked to be less POV filled. At the very least the part about drag and such should go. I await some responses, and will think about what I can do to clean this up. -- [[User:AshTM|AshTM]] 08:04, 1 Apr 2005 (UTC)
The beautiful thing about this page is the harder-core-than-thou diatribes RE: fashion-core, combined with the hilarious over-genre-fication. "mathcore"? Bravo guys, good job! You make us all look like stupid, sniveling hypocrites!!
--[[User:Sp0rk|Sp0rk]] 02:55, 22 Nov 2004 (UTC)
Having two band lists seems a little redundant.
Okay, who the heck is it that keeps putting in the indier-than-thou local bands?
I was thinking about rewriting this page, but somebody beat me to it... and did a great job I might add.
--[[User:SCooley138|SCooley138]] 09:24, 17 Oct 2004 (UTC)
I removed the following:
''Converge, while initially being a fairly straight-forward metalcore band, have on later releases been known to experiment with time signatures and progressive song structures while remaining true to their original metalcore origins. This started most notably on 1998's 'The Poacher Diaries', a split with famed grindcore band [[Agoraphobic Nosebleed]].''
First of all, according to www.convergecult.com, the split w/ ANB was released in late 1999. Second, the "noise" didn't start with that release. Converge experimented with time signatures and "noise" back in the 1994 release of Caring and Killing. Not to mention "When Forever Comes Crashing". (Which was released before the ANB split)
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There is so much wrong with this page, I cannot even begin to edit it.. And to the person who said that Metalcore is the blending of NU METAL and TRADITIONAL METAL: Please, Please, Please do a little more research on this genre.. Some of the first Metalcore bands (Converge, Zao, Overcast) were around before Nu Metal even existed. Metalcore is the blending of many different types of METAL, with the aesthetics of the HARDCORE genre. Hardcore has nothing to do with Nu Metal; hell, Nu Metal itself has nothing to do with Metal.
Could somoeone familiar with the scene please merge [[Black Metalcore]] to Metalcore and redirect it? Thanks--[[User:Petaholmes|nixie]] 23:05, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC)
== Really cool people have written and edited this article... ==
Wow! This article is a joke, right? It seems to be just a list of favorite bands for the last person who edited it.
'''"every now and then a band that isn't easy to peg even within these styles pops up, such as...The Blood Brothers...and...Neurosis"'''
OK... The Blood Brothers are ''screamo'', which isn't even mentioned on this page, obviously because no one who knows enough has taken the time to make an edit.
'''Actually the blood brothers aren't Screamo at all. I would say roots in it, but def. not screamo'''
And... Neurosis is mentioned as if they ''just'' recently showed up on the scene, never mind the fact that they are one of the biggest influences on so many of the ACTUAL early metalcore bands, like Converge and Coalesce.
And then... there are the ''extra cool people'' who feel the need to put in lesser known bands that they happen to like, but whom ''MOST'' people couldn't care less about. '''Well, some "lesser known acts" ARE pretty important'''
I won't even get started on the ''jackasses'' who keep deleting any and all Christian bands from the page, as if that disqualifies them from playing metalcore... oh wait, I did get started ;)
This article needs SERIOUS help.
Maybe I'll find the time to make it JUST SLIGHTYLY LESS BIASED!
Good plan! <big>'''''[[User:Sam Spade|Sam Spade]]'''''</big> 23:29, 19 May 2005 (UTC)
== People Complaining ==
Yeah, I think that Gothencore distinction was sorta silly...I'd never heard that used before. It's all just more metalcore/noisecore to me. Anyways, my big problem with what has been written is that the bands they use to give examples are poor, take the "mathcore" section, well, first of all the original term was noisecore, it was given to Rorschach in the late 80s, and just about every band since has been influenced by Rorschach, or deadguy, and deadguy was formed by Rorschach members. The metalcore/tough guy hardcore thing, well, problem with that is that they name mostly new bands that aren't that good from the genre, I MEAN COME ON THEY PUT DOWN MOST PRECIOUS BLOOD WITHOUT EVEN MENTIONING INDECISION!
Anyways...if you're complaining that this is getting seperated from hardcore just quit your bitching, it's definitely not hardcore.
== More ==
And Blood Brothers are not screamo, they're math rock with hardcore influence at best. For real screamo check in to:
*Heroin
*Swing Kids
*Antioch Arrow
*Angel Hair
Oh, and Neurosis has been around since the 80s, I tend to think they have more influence on Stoner and Sludge Metal.
I don't think you all need to be quibbling over little subgenres... 'OMG THEY R NOT MATHCOREZ THEY R THE SCREAMO' or whatever... Come on.
Metalcore is a combination of the hardcore (lyric driven, lots of fast distorted power chords) and heavy metal (distorted rifts and solos). As far as I'm concerned metalcore is melodic hardcore. I don't think that nu-metal has much to do with it, since these groups are NOT using turntables or industrial beats.
==I changed a bunch of stuff around==
So I guess there's a bunch of controversy wiht this page. A lot of it seems kind of like a mess.
I modified some stuff around. I also brought up bands like Undertow and Unbroken, who are some pretty crucial bands to the genre.
I got rid of Isis from the Mathcore section, i don't see why they would be on there other than a simalr fan base.
I edited around the "tough guy" and "gothencore" sections because they were sort of bias. I tried to mke it a little more neutral.
The whole fashioncore section seems really useless, especially the stuff about blogging. I might just merge some of the info in that with the "other" section.
== gothenscore == melodic death metal ==
Just look at the bands in the gothenscore section, most of them are defined by [melodic death metal].
We don't need 1 million genres like: londonmetal, parismetal, pragametal.
And I really don't see them relating to hardcore and henceforth metalcore.
--[[User:Vininim|vininim]] 13:14, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)
== WHAT? ==
seriously!?>?!! since I posted that long piece a few hours ago, did someone actually write that METALCORE GUITARS ARE SIMPLE!?!?! THEY FOLLOW THE RYTHYM SECTION!?!?! Are we talking about the same genre?? Hatebreed is pretty much hardcore, can people cite examples for the stuff they are posting? Please just download a few darkest hour songs and a hamartia song.
== Gothencore? ==
I'm sorry but I don't think anybody has pinned such a thing. Someone editing trying to create a name it seems for all the band's mixing the melodic Death/Thrash style (which has been called Gothenburg Sound, popularized by Swedish bands like At The Gates, In Flames and Dark Tranquility.) with Hardcore and in some instances Emo and even Gothic and Glam and straight Punk influences.
=='''Gothencore''' appears to be the same as [[Gothcore]]==
Have a look at the related articles [[melodic death metal]] and [[Gothcore]] [[User:Paul foord|Paul foord]] 1 July 2005 08:45 (UTC)
== update ==
I updated the list of metalcore bands, I didn't take any off, even though i disagree with a bunch of them. Everyone I know calls the older 'metalcore' bands just straight up 'hardcore', but overall I think this page is a lot better than it was. Anyway i added the list i'd made in the discussion page to the list that the article linked to.
== Friends and Enemies of Metalcore ==
Why is this genre a hated genre?
For those of you who are as into music as I am, you should know that public media loves to take a spin on a subculture and slap a name on it to market it. All genres have fallen victim to this (Punk, Metal, Hardcore and all its of its prefixes...Metalcore, Grindcore, Mathcore, and even its whiny more popular younger siblings emo and screamo). Metalcore bands that are a "hit" today, were "Metalcore" before it was the next big thing in the underground. Bands such as Poison The Well, Eighteen Visions, Most Precious Blood and its earlier incarnation, Indecision come to mind not to mention others. They have been in existence since about 1997. There is a problem here and that is trying to stick an image with a genre. The idea of metalcore for the uneduated musical masses have been painted due to certain bands popularity such as Atreyu and Bleeding Through. All black down to the clothes they wear, the color of their hair, and even the eyeliner. To me this is what makes the genre look bad. The mall image. Things that are sold in Hot Topic to sell a music genre in form of a clothing style. Now one may ask, what about Eighteen Visions? Don't they do the same thing as the two aformentioned bands? Well the answer is a little difficult to come up with. If we can look atthe history of this band lets recall what lead vocalist James Hart did for a living. He was a hair stylist. So this is understandable as to why he looks like he stepped out of a hair salon all of the time. The man knows his hair. Keep in mind, the band doesnt always dress up. There have been performaces that I have caught where it looked as if the band just stepped out of their bus unshowered and not really taking an interest in how they looked. They just looked like twenty somethings wearing whatever. This is my defense of Eighteen Visions. But I digress from my point, these bands did not choose to be called metalcore. In fact, if you asked them, the would simply say that they are a hardcore band. It seems as if metal purists think they are trying to snake their way into their holier than thou genre. Don't flatter yourslef guys, they best described their music as hardcore and the hardcore underground embraced it. Blame that on record labels. Back to my Eighteen Visions example, the fashioncore labeling is a disgrace to music. The origins of fashioncore are simple. Since Eighteen Visions enjoyed dressing up for their shows, the merch guys as a joke put "fashioncore" on the back of one of their t-shrits for sale. Well, the prhase caught popularity and then became a way to describe a band on how they dress. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, wether it is pro or anti metalcore but take into effect of the wide range musicianship that is there. Metalcore guitarists can play with the technicality of metal guitarists and with the breakdowns, the simplicity of a hardcore punk song. It is a solid musical genre but unfortunately the bands that existed before the turn of the millenium, are the better ones of the genre. What I really hope to accomplish is to find out why the genre is hated from the standpoint of a metal purist.
== Swede-core ==
Very small profile on google, is [[swede-core]] article OK as is, better merged with this one (with redirect) or deleted [[User:Paul foord|Paul foord]] 10:49, 1 August 2005 (UTC)
== Metalcore template ==
I created a [[:Template:Metalcore|Metalcore template]].
{{Metalcore}}
I have some questions and uncertainties about items.
Do people prefer the heavy metal & hardcore punk templates as at present or would it be better to have a specific metalcore template? [[User:Paul foord|Paul foord]] 13:24, 25 August 2005 (UTC)
Pardon me, but 4/4 is a time signature indicating nothing but rhythmic accents. Therefore, to say that a breakdown "slows down" to 4/4 time is ridiculous.
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