Association football and User talk:Kuban kazak: Difference between pages

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*** POLITE SUGGESTION to potential editors: The intro paragraphs should be short and to the point (refer Wikipedia Manual of Style); Details of what the sport is called where are probably better covered in the [[names of the game]] article. This article represents a compromise between many factions; please be careful in keeping the point of view neutral, no matter how correct you think you are. ***

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:''Soccer redirects here. For other senses, see [[soccer (disambiguation)]].''

[[Image:football_iu_1996.jpg|thumb|300px|right|The striker (wearing a red shirt) has run past the defender (in white shirt) and is about to take a shot at the goal, while the goalkeeper positions himself to attempt to stop the ball.]]

== Kharkiv ==

'''Football''' is a ball game played between two teams of eleven players, each attempting to win by scoring more goals than their opponent. Football is played predominantly with the feet, but players may use any part of their body except their hands and arms to propel the ball; the exceptions to this are the two players acting as [[goalkeeper|goalkeepers]], who are the only ones allowed to handle the ball on the field of play, albeit with restrictions.

Hey Kuban kazak. The use of ''[[Kharkiv]]'' vs. ''Kharkov'' has been discussed at length and the current form is the result of the consensus several editors. Please consult [[talk:Kharkiv]] and its archive, and discuss there if you want to propose such a change. Cheers, ''[[User:Mzajac |Michael]]&nbsp;[[User talk:Mzajac |Z.]]&nbsp;<small>2005-10-15&nbsp;23:17&nbsp;Z</small>''

The sport is also known by [[football (soccer) names|other names]] in some parts of the [[English language|English]]-speaking world, usually '''association football''' and its contraction, '''soccer'''. These names are often used to distinguish the game from [[football|other codes of football]], since [[football (word)|the word "football"]] may be used (often incorrectly) to refer to several quite different games. <!-- Please see above polite suggestions before changing this line-->

==Moscow Metro==

Football is played at a professional level all over the world, and millions of people regularly go to a football [[stadium]] to follow their favourite team, whilst millions more avidly watch the game on television. A very large number of people also play football at an amateur level.

Hi there, kazak! I noticed that you put the apostrophes back in the names of some of the Moscow Metro stations. Just wanted to let you know that English Wikipedia traditionally utilizes Russian transliteration guidelines outlined [[Transliteration of Russian into English|here]]. While it is generally understood that there is no single transliteration system used by everyone, it had been decided that the usage of one system greatly helps maintain the consistency of the articles. At this time, most articles dealing with Russia-related topics use that transliteration system (which omits apostrophes used for soft and hard signs). You may also want to check out [[Portal:Russia/New article announcements|this announcement board]] (just do an in-page search for "metro" to find relevant announcements) for more information specifically regarding the naming of Moscow Metro stations. By all means do not hesitate to contact me if you have questions. Best,&mdash;[[User:Ezhiki|Ëzhiki (erinaceus amurensis)]] 18:36, 16 October 2005 (UTC)

==Welcome==

According to a survey conducted by [[FIFA|Fédération Internationale de Football Association]] (FIFA), football's governing body, published in the spring of 2001, over 240 million people regularly play football in more than 200 countries in every part of the world. Its simple rules and minimal equipment requirements have no doubt aided its spread and growth in popularity. In many parts of the world football evokes great passions and plays an important role in the life of individual fans, local communities, and even nations; it is therefore often claimed to be the most popular [[sport]] in the world.

Just to say Welcome! I'm glad we now have a Cossack on Wikipedia :) [[User:Nikola Smolenski|Nikola]] 18:13, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

==Transliteration==

== Nature of the game ==

The point of transliteration is to enable English speakers to be able to pronounce these Russian names in the correct fashion. The reason Y is used to represent Ы, Й, -ий, -ый is that it is the closest English letter to those sounds. I understand your objection to using the "ai" sound to represent all these letters, which would be incorrect, but you have to understand that most of the time Y is not pronounced "ai" in English. It can also be pronounced "i" as in "system" and "ee" as in "fiery," not to mention the Y consonant sound.

A native English speaker will pronounce "Leninsky Prospekt" and "Leninskiy Prospekt" the same, and he or she would never say "LeninskAI Prospekt." Using "iy" as opposed to "y" does not change the way the word is pronounced, and "iy" is an unfamiliar letter combination in English that readers may not know how to pronounce.

Two teams of eleven players each compete to get a spherical ball (itself known as a ''[[football (ball)|football]]'') into the other team's goal, thereby scoring a goal. The team which has scored the most goals at the conclusion of the game is the winner; if both teams have an equal number of goals then the game is a draw. The primary rule for this objective is that players, other than the goalkeepers, may not ''intentionally'' touch the ball with their hands or arms during play (though they do use their hands during a [[throw-in]] restart). Although players mainly use their feet to move the ball around, they may use any part of their bodies other than their hands or arms.

Using a J to represent the consonant Y sound is even more ridiculous. J ''never'' makes a Y sound in English. An English reader confronted with a word like "Oktjabrskaja" will have no idea how to pronounce it, and if they attempt to say it they will almost certainly be wrong. The spelling "Oktyabrskaya," which correctly uses the letter Y to represent the Y consonant sound, will be pronounced correctly by an English speaker.

[[Image:Soccer goalkeeper.jpg|thumb|250px|A goalkeeper dives to stop the ball from entering his goal.]]

As to your other objections, in English "north-south" does not imply that the street (or avenue) runs from the north TO the south, it just means the street's alignment is along the north-south axis as opposed to the east-west axis. Removing Profsoyuznaya from the list was an accident. Regarding your request for British spelling, by Wikipedia convention either spelling is appropriate.

In typical game play, players attempt to move towards a goal through individual control of the ball, such as by dribbling (running with the ball close to their feet); by passing the ball from team-mate to team-mate; and by taking shots at the goal. Opposition players may try to regain control of the ball by intercepting a pass or through tackling the opponent who controls the ball.

I appreciate your work on the rolling stock, extensions, and correction to the plans of Park Pobedy and Izmaylovsky Park. I did not realize that they were done by you because you were listed as an IP address.

Football is generally a free-flowing game with the ball in play at all times except when the ball has left the field of play by wholly crossing over a boundary line (either on the ground or in the air), or play has been stopped by the referee. When play has been stopped, it recommences with a specified restart (see below).

[[User:Camerafiend|Camerafiend]] 13:24, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

The game is played in accordance with a set of rules known as the [[Laws of the Game]], which are summarised below.

Fair enough. I still don't understand the advantage of using -iy instead of -y, but if that's what you want to use I'm fine with it. I'm glad you figured out how to move the pages without creating duplicate articles. [[User:Camerafiend|Camerafiend]] 21:00, 21 October 2005 (UTC)

== The Laws of the Game ==

:Pardon me for intervening, but I would like to note that Wikipedia transliteration system is not a matter of someone's personal preference. Using "ja" is definitily not incorrect, but "ya" is also by no means not incorrect&mdash;these are merely conventions of two different transliteration systems (which, I repeat, are both "correct", but used for different purposes). The WP transliteration system was devised to maintain consistency&mdash;any other system could have certainly been used with the same effect (be it ISO-9, straight BCGN/PGN, or Russian GOST). [[Transliteration of Russian into English|Current system]] has been selected as the best for transliterating Russian into '''English'''; it is not merely a generic system, but one that targets the needs of English-speaking readers and is, as such, more common in English media/texts. I would recommend that you adjust your transliteration habits when dealing with the English WP articles. Using just one system benefits English WP greatly, and, since the tradition is pretty much set, I suggest you accept it. Just imagine that suddenly your system is adopted just as widely as the current one is&mdash;how would you deal with someone who comes in in half a year and insists that ISO-9 is the only way to go? Hope for your understanding, and keep up your otherwise great work. Feel free to drop me a line if you have questions or comments. Cheers,&mdash;[[User:Ezhiki|Ëzhiki (erinaceus amurensis)]] 01:34, 22 October 2005 (UTC)

==Ukraine==

=== History and development ===

Hi, Kuban Kazak, and welcome again. I just thought I stop by and request that you use some extra caution in UA-RU controvercial issues. It is easy to make others lose their temper and extra care is warranted. Since you seem interested in religeous affairs of Ukraine, you may take a look at [[Patriarch Filaret (Mykhailo Denysenko)]] article and click on the links. Hopefully, you will help to improve Ukrainian topics and avoid the edit wars. Thanks, --[[User:Irpen|Irpen]] 16:17, 22 October 2005 (UTC)

{{seealso|Football}}

:Sorry about that, got carried away... anyway thanks for watering down the version, I suppose that that is any wikipedia's responsibility...I also wish for your help on the Kiev Metro section (photographs, we need photographs there). Actually I want to make a portal about all the metro systems of the former Ussr and hope for your help. [[User:Kuban kazak|Kuban kazak]] 14:54, 23 October 2005 (UTC)

Thanks a lot for your work on expansion of [[Kiev Metro]] coverage. Cheers, --[[User:Irpen|Irpen]] 05:16, 27 October 2005 (UTC)

==Russian portal==

The ''Laws of the Game'' are based on efforts made in the mid-[[19th century]] to standardise the rules of the widely varying games of football played at the [[public school (England)|public schools]] of [[England]]. The first set of rules resembling the modern game were produced at [[Trinity College, Cambridge]] in [[1848]], at a meeting attended by representatives from [[Eton College|Eton]], [[Harrow School|Harrow]], [[Rugby School|Rugby]], [[Winchester College|Winchester]] and [[Shrewsbury School|Shrewsbury]], but they were far from universally adopted. During the [[1850s]], many clubs were formed, thoughout the English-speaking world, independent of schools or universities, to play various forms of football. Some came up with their own distinct codes of rules, most notably the [[Sheffield F.C.|Sheffield Football Club]] (formed by former pupils from [[Harrow_School|Harrow]]) in [[1857]], which led to formation of a [[Sheffield & Hallamshire Football Association|Sheffield FA]] in 1867. In [[1862]], J.C. Thring of [[Uppingham School]] also devised an influential set of rules.

Dear colleague, it would have been nice of you to announce newly created articles [[Wikipedia:Wikiportal/Russia/New_article_announcements|here]]. Thanks. --[[User:Ghirlandajo|Ghirlandajo]] 13:34, 24 October 2005 (UTC)

:And also [[Wikipedia:Wikiportal/Ukraine/New_article_announcements|here]]. I will try to help with what I can with metro. BTW, IMO we should probably use modern Ukrainian names for most, if not all, stations/lines in [[Kiev Metro]]. Thanks for your interest. Feel free to contact me if you have any questions. --[[User:Irpen|Irpen]] 20:28, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

==St. Volodymyr's==

See [[Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents#Repeated_wholesale_removal_of_info_from_St._Volodymyr.27s_Cathedral]]. Feel free to comment. --[[User:Irpen|Irpen]] 01:15, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

: Oh I commeted alright, one thing is to argue a POV, another thing is to descredit a POV and delete whole sections, Варварство причем варварство в самом прямом смысле.[[User:Kuban kazak|Kuban kazak]] 13:20, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

What a mess!!! I hope this would be soon put to an end. I haven't realized that you were writing to AndriyK at the same time as I was writing to him. I corrected the title of your section at his talk. I hope it is OK with you. Please send me your email address if you don't mind --[[User:Irpen|Irpen]] 21:52, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

These efforts contribute to the formation of [[The Football Association]] (The FA) in [[1863]] which first met on the evening of [[26 October]] [[1863]] at the Freemason's Tavern in Great Queen Street, [[London]]. The only school to be represented on this occasion was [[Charterhouse School|Charterhouse]]. The Freemason's Tavern was the setting for five more meetings between October and December, which eventually produced the first comprehensive set of rules. At the final meeting, the first FA treasurer, who was the representative from [[Blackheath Rugby Club|Blackheath]], withdrew his club from the FA over the removal of two draft rules at the previous meeting, the first which allowed for the running with the ball in hand and the second, obstructing such a run by hacking (kicking an opponent in the shins), tripping and holding. Other [[History of rugby union|English rugby clubs followed this lead]] and did not join the FA but instead in [[1871]] formed the [[Rugby Football Union]]. The eleven remaining clubs, under the charge of [[Ebenezer Cobb Morley]], went on to ratify the original fourteen rules of the game. Despite this, the Sheffield FA played by its own rules until the 1870s.

:And sorry, I could not yet get to your Metro articles. You obviously see the reasons. --[[User:Irpen|Irpen]] 22:40, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

::Опыт говорит что правокаторы приходят и уходят, а метро уже 70, 50, 45 лет в Мск, СПб и Киеве соответственно. Сейчас выметем мусор а потом делом займемся.[[User:Kuban kazak|Kuban kazak]] 22:45, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

Hi, please do not get mad that I removed your entry from St Volodymyr's talk. Let's not get people crazy when we are approaching a difficult compromise there. I wholeheartedly share your desire for Ukraine to finally get a single canonical local Church which I would prefer to see [[autocephalous]]. I just thought the article you linked will start another barrage of flames. Cheers, --[[User:Irpen|Irpen]] 21:56, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

Today the laws of the game are determined by the [[International Football Association Board]] (IFAB). The Board was formed in [[1882]] after a meeting in [[Manchester]] of The Football Association, the [[Scottish Football Association]], the [[Football Association of Wales]], and the [[Irish Football Association]]. The Fédération Internationale de Football Association [[FIFA]], the international football body, was formed in [[Paris]] in [[1904]] and declared that they would adhere to the rules laid down by the IFAB. The growing popularity of the international game led to the admittance of FIFA representatives to the IFAB in [[1913]]. Today the board is made up of four representatives from FIFA and one representative from each of the four British associations.

==[[Wikipedia:Naming conventions/Geographic names]]==

[[Image:Kid playing soccer.jpg|thumb|250px|Football is popular among children as well as adults.]]

Another thing, I think there is quiet a good discussion with an excellent proposal being hammered out by several users at [[Wikipedia:Naming_conventions/Geographic_names]]. The latest version is very close to what I would like to see as a Wikipedia policy and, if implemented, it would also help to quickly put an end to certain behaviours of certain users if you know what I mean. --[[User:Irpen|Irpen]] 01:24, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

== Wikipedia is not a "Russian Orthodox Encyclopaedia" ==

===Overview of the Laws===

Please stop pushing Russian Orthodox POV to the articles. Please pay attention that ''canonicity''

There are seventeen Laws in the official [[Laws of the Game]]. The same laws are designed to apply to all levels of football, although the preface to the Laws does grant national associations the ability to authorise certain modifications for juniors, seniors, women, etc. The Laws are often framed in broad terms, which allows flexibility in their application depending on the nature of the game. In addition to the seventeen Laws, numerous IFAB decisions and other directives contribute to the regulation of football. The Laws can be found on the [http://www.fifa.com/en/regulations/regulation/0,3527,3,00.html official FIFA website].

*is viewed somewhat differently by Orthodox and Catholic Churches;

*is not recognized by Protestant Churches;

*is not recognized by most of people in the wold that are not Cristian at all.

Please read [[WP:NPOV]] carefully.

=== Players and equipment ===

::''NPOV policy often means presenting multiple points of view.''

Each team consists of a maximum of eleven players (excluding substitutes), one of whom must be the goalkeeper. Competition rules may state a minimum of seven players are required to constitute a team. There are a variety of positions in which the outfield players are strategically placed by a manager/coach, though these positions are not defined or required by the Laws.

Please pay attention that pushing Orthodox POV is against the WP policies.--[[User:AndriyK|AndriyK]] 21:00, 6 November 2005 (UTC)

One player on each team must be designated as that team's goalkeeper. The goalkeeper is the only player allowed to handle the ball with his hands or arms, but is restricted to doing so within the [[Penalty area (football)|penalty area]] (also known as the "box" or "18 yard box") in front of his own goal.

:The original article said something along the lines of "a church viewed uncannonical by the Orthodox Communion" i.e. Protestant, Catholics and other religions have nothing to do with this article. The church is NOT recognignised by other Orthodox Churches which happen to have cannonical standing. It is you who needs to pay attention and not omitt these facts, same NPOV argument my ''Drug'' [[User:Kuban kazak|Kuban kazak]] 22:22, 6 November 2005 (UTC)

The basic equipment players are required to wear includes a shirt (or jersey), shorts, socks (or stockings), footwear and adequate shin guards. Players are forbidden to wear or use anything that is dangerous to themselves or another player (including jewellery or watches).

Kuban kazak, I also got this message. I will respond shortly at AndriyK's talk. Please see [[Talk:Lviv Oblast]] re names. The issue isn't trivial. Also, please email me with your email address if you don't mind. --[[User:Irpen|Irpen]] 00:16, 7 November 2005 (UTC)

A number of players may be replaced by ''substitutes'' during the course of the game. The maximum substitutions permitted in international games and in national level leagues is three, though substitution numbers may be varied in other leagues. The usual reasons for a player's replacement include injury, tiredness, ineffectiveness, a tactical switch, or to waste a little time at the end of a finely poised game. In standard adult matches, a player who has been substituted may not take further part in the match.

:Sorry for interfering again, but let's not inflame our opponents in the edit summaries. I responded on the essence on their positions on the article's and AndriyK's talk pages. Cheers, --[[User:Irpen|Irpen]] 01:46, 8 November 2005 (UTC)

=== Officials...вряд ли ===

A game is presided over by a [[Referee (football)|referee]], who has "full authority to enforce the Laws of the Game in connection with the match to which he has been appointed" (Law 5), and whose decisions regarding facts connected with play are final. The referee is assisted by two [[assistant referee]]s (formerly called linesmen). In many high-level games there is also a [[fourth official]], who assists the referee and may replace another official should the need arise.

Родом я из Москвы. У меня прадед, будучи казаком, воевал в первую войну. Другие предки у меня с Полтавщины - наверняка с Хмельницким были. А сам я не то что бы казак, а скорее потомок казацкий - хотя шашка и нагайка дома имеются.

=== Playing field ===

<br>[[User:Kazak|Kazak]] 02:27, 8 November 2005 (UTC)

[[Image:Football pitch small.png|right|frame|Standard pitch measurements ([[:Image:Football pitch.png|Large version]]) ([[:Image:Football pitch metric.png|Metric version]])]]

{{main|Football (soccer) field}}

==Challenge==

The length of the field (pitch) for international adult matches should be in the range 100-130 yards (90-120m) and the width should be in the range 50-100 yards (45-90m).The pitch must be rectangular, with the length of the touch line longer than the width of the goal line.

Man, saw your challenge for AndriyK. Ahhh, I want it :)) Anyway, I see why you want him to do it, and I am not going to interfere, but if you have anything else that's equally interesting and not so recent (administrative divisions are a hobby of mine), let me know, OK?.&mdash;[[User:Ezhiki|Ëzhiki (erinaceus amurensis)]] 01:12, 9 November 2005 (UTC)

:Try Belarus, from the same 1940s atlas. Or Russia, all of the historic regions, gubernia, different borders etc.[[User:Kuban kazak|Kuban kazak]] 11:55, 9 November 2005 (UTC)

::Guberniyas, them I've been doing anyway (see [[History of the administrative division of Russia]]), albeit it's progressing much slower than I wanted. What I had in mind was a specific, well-defined challenge. I'll take a look at Belarus, though. Thanks!&mdash;[[User:Ezhiki|Ëzhiki (erinaceus amurensis)]] 13:22, 9 November 2005 (UTC)

==Request for help==

The longer boundary lines are ''touch lines'', while the shorter boundaries (on which the goals are placed) are ''goal lines''. On the goal line at each end of the field is a goal. The inner edges of the goal posts must be 8 yards (7.32m) apart, and the lower edge of the crossbar must be 8 feet (2.44m) above the ground. Nets are usually placed behind the goal, though are not required by the Laws.

[[User:Molobo]] has been in habit of vandalizing articles on [[Smolensk War]], [[Russophobia]], [[Belovezhskaya Pushcha]], etc. Now she attacks [[Berlin Congress]]. Please help to neutrilize her. Thanks, [[User:Ghirlandajo|Ghirlandajo]] 12:13, 10 November 2005 (UTC)

In front of each goal is an area of the field known as the [[penalty area]] (colloquially "penalty box", "18 yard box" or simply "the box"). This area consists of the area formed by the goal-line, two lines starting on the goal-line 18 yards (16.5m) from the goalposts and extending 18 yards into the pitch from the goal-line, and a line joining these. This area has a number of important functions, the most prominent being to denote where the goalkeeper may handle the ball and where a foul by a defender which would usually punished by a direct free kick becomes punishable by a [[penalty kick (football)|penalty kick]].

==Metro :(==

The field has other field markings and defined areas; these are described in the main article above.

Hi, Kazak. To be completely honest, I'm a bit disappointed with your recent moves of metro articles, especially considering the fact that you were the one scolding someone else for making silly edits. I already explained the Russian transliteration system used in Wikipedia, and I also explained that neither that system, nor the one you are more fond of, is by itself incorrect. However, only one system should be used for consistency sake. I would suggest that you adopt one that's already widely used instead of moving articles back and forth. [[Transliteration of Russian into English]] happens to be the system that Wikipedia's policies [[Wikipedia:Naming conventions#Russian names|prescribe]], and, as you undoubtedly know, non-complying with the policies is not usually the best idea. I do not mean to be petty or waste our time, but I am a consistency hobgoblin, that's for sure, and I ''do'' see consistency as one of the virtues Wikipedia should pursue. Thank you for your attention and understanding, and I would appreciate if you undid the rest of your changes yourself.&mdash;[[User:Ezhiki|Ëzhiki (erinaceus amurensis)]] 22:59, 10 November 2005 (UTC)

Additionally, I would also recommend you a refresher on [[Wikipedia:Manual of Style#National varieties of English]] and to remind you that American spelling should not be changed into British (and vice versa) except when both variants co-exist on one page or when British spelling is used in an article on an American-related topic (and vice versa). In all other cases, the variant of English used by the original contributor should be used.&mdash;[[User:Ezhiki|Ëzhiki (erinaceus amurensis)]] 23:09, 10 November 2005 (UTC)

=== Duration ===

:If consistency is to be followed then you will find that british spelling is used on the main page, and the main page of the KRL was changed to my system and used since, what kind of consistency is this if one line will use one version and another one a different one. Me and Camerafield agreed to take off -ja and -ij in preference to -YA and -IY. So no point reverting my changes.[[User:Kuban kazak|Kuban kazak]] 23:22, 10 November 2005 (UTC)

====Standard durations====

::The point is not something you discussed with another user. The point is to follow policies. If you see British spelling in one line and American in another, by all means correct that (but make sure you correct it to one the original author used, not the one you like the most). As for translit, please always correct it to conform with what the policies tell you to. I realize it may be hard for you&mdash;I, for example, cannot stand British spelling, but if that's what the original author used, then I will change all American spelling back to British if I happen to edit the page (mind you, some people actually choose to hunt down pages with inconsistent spelling). Again, this is not just the matter of personal courtesy, it's the matter of following the policies. You would not break the three-revert rule just because you do not like it or think that it was invented by a bunch of morons who had nothing better to do with their time, would you? Same goes for transliteration and spelling. Trust me, people broke too many spears and wasted too much time over these seemingly petty issues in the past. Each policy is there for a reason. I once again ask you to ''please'' comply.&mdash;[[User:Ezhiki|Ëzhiki (erinaceus amurensis)]] 03:13, 11 November 2005 (UTC)

May I add to that what's my own take on this. Being not a native speaker I never interfere with American/British spelling issue. I just leave those words as they are (unless I edit a piece) and leave it up to native speakers Wikipedians to bother about this. This is really such a minor issue for us, that there is no need to persist if it is such a major issue for others. As for the choice of the transliteration, especially in the article's names, I only move them when I know what version of the name is prevails in English. Like I moved the article about the Soviet rocket designer called until recently ''Korolev'' to ''Korolyov'' simply because the latter is used in English clearly wider. For subway stations, there is no way to get any meaningful statistics of the English usage. So, I suggest to propose the moves at talk first and wait for a while. It is really not a big deal, is it? --[[User:Irpen|Irpen]] 05:04, 11 November 2005 (UTC)

A standard adult football match consists of two periods (known as halves) of 45 minutes each. There is usually a 15-minute break between halves, known as half time. The end of the match is known as full-time.

== NPOV ==

====Extra time and shootouts====

... Whilst I might have patriotic POVs, I am against an article not repressinting the other side of the story. NPOV is a wikipedia policy which everyone must adhere to. ... [[User:Kuban kazak|Kuban kazak]] 13:30, 11 November 2005

If tied at the end of regulation time, in some competitions the game may go into extra time, which consists of two further 15-minute periods. If the score is still tied after extra time, some competitions allow the use of [[penalty shootout (football)|penalty shootouts]] (known officially in the Laws of the Game as "kicks from the penalty mark") to determine which team will progress to the next stage of the tournament. Note that goals scored during extra time periods count towards the final score of the game, unlike kicks from the penalty mark which are only used to decide the team that progresses to the next part of the tournament (with goals scored not making up part of the final score).

''(This is copied from my talk page)''--[[User:AndriyK|AndriyK]] 15:56, 11 November 2005 (UTC)

::Please find below some citations of your edits. Just to think once more about NPOV that "is a wikipedia policy which everyone must adhere to."--[[User:AndriyK|AndriyK]] 15:56, 11 November 2005 (UTC)

Competitions utilising two-leg stages (i.e. where each round involves the two teams playing each other twice) may utilise the so-called [[away goals rule]] to attempt to determine which team progresses in the event of the teams being equal on wins; however, should results still be equal following this calculation kicks from the penalty mark are usually required. Other competitions may require a tied game to be replayed.

::::''It seen the revival of Orthodox religion in 1988 when the millenium celebration of the baptism of Rus marked a turn in the Soviet policy of religion. However afterwards dark times came on it again. In 1992, after Metropolitan of Kiev and all Ukraine Filaret refused to resign, the cathedral became the first building to be captured by the UOC-KP. After the Karkov sinod and with the return of the new Metropolitan of Kiev and all Ukraine Vladimir, members of the neo-fascist UNA-UNSO barrikaded themselves inside the cathedral and refused entry to the new cannonical church leader and several thousand believers who gathered to meet them. Despite numerous protests from all the world Orthodox communities the cathedral is yet to return to the church and is still in the hands of the schismatics.''[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=St_Volodymyr%27s_Cathedral&diff=26189124&oldid=25962321]

====Golden and silver goal experiments====

{{main2|Golden goal|Silver goal}}

::::''After the pillage of Kiev by the Mongolian Tatarsin 1180 the cathedral fell into decline and was even taken up by the uniats ''[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Saint_Sophia_Cathedral_in_Kiev&diff=prev&oldid=26809258]

In the late [[1990s]], the IFAB experimented with ways of making matches more likely to end without requiring [[kicks from the penalty mark]], which were often seen as an undesirable way to end a match.

::Do you think your slighting attitude to other confessions is the way how the WP articles should be written?--[[User:AndriyK|AndriyK]] 15:56, 11 November 2005 (UTC)

These involved rules ending a game in extra time early, either when the first goal in extra time was scored ([[golden goal]]), or at the end of the first period of extra time if one team was by then leading ([[silver goal]]). Both these experiments have been discontinued by IFAB.

:::I did not say that I was the perfect example, yet I did not mind people editing my posts so that it be presented in an NPOV way. On the contrary before you people showed up, me and Irpen discussed how to water down the first example. In the end the seizure was agreed upon.

====Referee as official timekeeper====

:::What I do not understand is how my extensive contribution about Sophia is a breach of NPOV. Поясни.

The referee is the official timekeeper for the match, and it is part of his duties to make allowance for time lost through substitutions, injured players requiring attention, cautions and dismissals, sundry time wasting, etc. When making such an allowance for time lost, the referee is often said to be "adding time on". The amount of time is at the sole discretion of the referee, and the referee alone signals when the match has been completed. There are no other timekeepers, although assistant referees carry a watch and may provide a second opinion if requested by the referee. In matches where a fourth official is appointed, towards the end of the half the referee will signal how many minutes remain to be played, and the fourth official then signals this to players and spectators by holding up a board showing this number.

[[User:Kuban kazak|Kuban kazak]] 16:25, 11 November 2005 (UTC)

== Mediation concerning [[St Volodymyr's Cathedral]] ==

Note that there is often semantic debate as to whether the referee is "adding on" time to the end of a half, or rather treating time during stoppages as though it never existed as part of the match time; this distinction has little bearing on the practical conduct of a game, however it may be noted that the pre-[[1997]] wording of the laws stated that the referee "shall ... allow the full or agreed time ''adding thereto'' all time lost through injury or accident" (Law V), and later FIFA guidelines regarding the annotation of goal scoring times suggested that time is indeed "added-on" to the end of the agreed half period.

I propose to ask for official mediation to resolve the dispute concerning [[St Volodymyr's Cathedral]] article. Whould you agree?--[[User:AndriyK|AndriyK]] 18:08, 12 November 2005 (UTC)

=== Starts and re-starts ===

:Not that I am against but then we pretty much have setteled everything there is to settle, I mean if it is something as petty as Kyiv vs Kiev then it is laughable at mediating that (considering the length this article travelled), but if that's how you want to end it, fine by me. [[User:Kuban kazak|Kuban kazak]] 18:12, 12 November 2005 (UTC)

I've got an e-mail from the mediator. Please check your mailsbox so that we can start the dispute resolution.--[[User:AndriyK|AndriyK]] 15:31, 18 November 2005 (UTC)

Each playing period in football commences with a [[kick-off (football)|kick-off]], which is a set kick from the centre-spot by one team. At kick-off all players are required to be in their half of the field, and all players of the non-kicking team must also remain outside the centre-circle, until the ball is kicked and moved. Kick-offs are also used to restart play following a goal.

== Balachka ==

From the initial kick-off of a period until the end of that period, the ball is "in play" at all times until the end of the playing period, except when the ball leaves the field of play or play is stopped by the referee; in these cases play is re-started by one of the following eight methods:

I've never heard of [[Balachka]], until you mentioned it in some discussion recently. It sounds like an interesting article topic. Would you create a stub? ''—[[User:Mzajac |Michael]]&nbsp;[[User talk:Mzajac |Z.]]&nbsp;<small>2005-11-12&nbsp;22:20&nbsp;Z</small>''

[[Image:Directfreekick.jpg|right|300px|thumb|A [[direct free kick]] taken by the blue-white team.]]

: Basically it is not a language, it is a dialect which we cossacks speak, it is similar to Ukranian/Russian mix (although nothing like the surzhik dialect) but volcabulary is solely Russian (ie флаг is used instead of прапор, аnd Дворец instead of Палац etc) although some ecxeptions exist e.g. Червоны(е) Рассийски(е) Ю(г)а. differences exist mostly in the sounds of Г, В, and О. Moreover the dialect varies so much from stanitsa to stanitsa (and the older generations in particular) that there really is no common version of it. For instance in some places the e at the end is muffled others clearly pronounce it. Well anyway here are some examples:

Take pronounciation of cities: Харькаф, Ки'иф, Петербург (the g at the end is pronounced solid, not like h)

* [[Kick-off (football)|Kick-off]]: following a goal by the opposing team, or to begin each period of play. ([http://www.fifa.com/en/laws/Laws8_01.htm Law 8]).

* [[Throw-in]]: when the ball has wholly crossed the touchline; awarded to opposing team to that which last touched the ball. ([http://www.fifa.com/en/laws/Laws15_01.htm Law 15]).

* [[Goal kick]]: when the ball has wholly crossed the goal line without a goal having been scored and having last been touched by an attacker; awarded to defending team. ([http://www.fifa.com/en/laws/Laws16_01.htm Law 16]).

* [[Corner kick]]: when the ball has wholly crossed the goal line without a goal having been scored and having last been touched by a defender; awarded to attacking team. ([http://www.fifa.com/en/laws/Laws17_01.htm Law 17]).

* [[Indirect free kick]]: awarded to the opposing team following "non-penal" fouls, certain technical infringements, or when play is stopped to caution/send-off an opponent without a specific foul having occurred. ([http://www.fifa.com/en/laws/Laws13_01.htm Law 13]).

* [[Direct free kick]]: awarded to fouled team following certain listed "penal" fouls. ([http://www.fifa.com/en/laws/Laws13_01.htm Law 13]).

* [[Penalty kick (football)|Penalty kick]]: awarded to fouled team following "penal" foul having occurred in their opponent's penalty area. ([http://www.fifa.com/en/laws/Laws14_01.htm Law 14]).

* [[Dropped-ball]]: occurs when the referee has stopped play for any other reason (e.g. a serious injury to a player, interference by an external party, or a ball becoming defective). ([http://www.fifa.com/en/laws/Laws8_03.htm Law 8]).

Да шо ты мне (х)оворишь (if there is an h sound then it is very short although in my stanitsa it simply muffled)? Сам знаю шо наши Рус'ськи(э) казачки красние фсех, хотя балтиливые. The э sound at the end of that word is said very briefly but destinguishable.

===Fouls and misconduct===

A ''foul'' occurs when a player (not a substitute) commits a specific offence listed in the Laws of the Game, against an opponent, when the ball is in play. The offences that constitute a foul are mainly listed in Law 12. "Penal fouls", for example handling the ball, tripping an opponent, pushing an opponent, etc, are punishable by a [[direct free kick]] or [[penalty kick (football)|penalty kick]] depending on where the offence occurred. Other fouls are punishable by an [[indirect free kick]].

-Вот был Сталин, да по'аладали потом по'ое'али, но при этам было щастьи а потом умник Хрущоф

''Misconduct'' may occur at any time, and need not be against an opponent. Substitutes may commit misconduct. Whilst the offences that constitute misconduct are listed, the definitions are broad. In particular, the offence of "unsporting behaviour" may be used to deal with most events that violate the spirit of the game, even if they are not listed as specific offences. Misconduct may be punished by a [[yellow card|caution]] (yellow card) or [[red card|sending-off]] (red card).

-Хрющиф чорт е'о падрал

=== Offside ===

{{main|Offside law (football)}}

-Ща ты у миня будеш Хрюкать оГда пад маей шашкай акажишся...Вот взял и ород-ерой (alternatively g's if pronounced are used - no h substitute) СталинГрад периминавал В-Ол'ГоГрад (here is a good example where an В sound is pronounced and also the O sound is fully sounded and streched for longer than in normal Russian) Other examples of BO sound different: сем, осим, девять.

The offside law limits the ability of attacking players to remain forward (i.e. closer to the opponent's goal-line) of both the ball and the second last defending player. It is often assumed that the purpose of this law is to prevent "goal scrounging" or "cherry picking", but in fact the offside law has similar roots to the offside law in rugby (see [[Offside law (football) | full article]]). The details and application of this law are complex, and often result in controversy: for more information on offside please refer to the main article above.

[[User:Kuban kazak|Kuban kazak]] 01:04, 13 November 2005 (UTC)

: Thanks. That's interesting; I can see the Ukrainian connection, although some of it is puzzling since I don't know Russian. Is the akanye usually spelt out, as in "Харькаф"? ''—[[User:Mzajac |Michael]]&nbsp;[[User talk:Mzajac |Z.]]&nbsp;<small>2005-11-13&nbsp;05:04&nbsp;Z</small>''

==Governing bodies==

::It is spelled out using Moscovite Russian translit here, balachka has no grammar or language, we write in Russian (although some stanitsas use the pre-1918 grammar), also it is spoken very quickly. [[User:Kuban kazak|Kuban kazak]] 14:51, 13 November 2005 (UTC)

The recognised international governing body of football (and associated games, such as [[futsal]] and [[beach soccer]]) is the [[Fédération Internationale de Football Association]] (FIFA).

==[[Wikipedia:Requests_for_adminship/Halibutt]]==

Six regional confederations are associated with FIFA; these are:

* Asia: [[Asian Football Confederation]] (AFC)

* Africa: [[Confederation of African Football]] (CAF)

* Central/North America & Caribbean: [[CONCACAF|Confederation of North, Central American and Caribbean Association Football]] (CONCACAF; also known as The Football Confederation)

* Europe: [[UEFA|Union of European Football Associations]] (UEFA)

* Oceania: [[Oceania Football Confederation]] (OFC)

* South America: [[CONMEBOL|Confederación Sudamericana de Fútbol]] (South American Football Confederation; CONMEBOL)

I think you would be interested in voting here, especially as there are voices that Halibutt is an anti-Russian (Ukrainian, etc.) POV-pusher. --[[User:Ghirlandajo|Ghirlandajo]] 23:30, 16 November 2005 (UTC)

The recognised various national associations (see [[football around the world]]) oversee football within their jurisdictions. These are affiliated both with FIFA directly and also with their respective continental confederations.

:Don't know really, I was not here long enough to become in contact with Halibutt, so I shall withhold for the time being. Anyway you seem to have a strong case against him. [[User:Kuban kazak|Kuban kazak]] 23:50, 16 November 2005 (UTC)

::Ok. I don't have a case against Halibutt. As I explained on his talk page, I will even support him the next time around. But he should learn to dissociate himself from nationalist trolls like Molobo or Space Cadet. If you have had troubles with Molobo, please add the summary of his abuses to my note [[User_talk:Dbachmann#Molobo's RfAr|here]]. I believe we should stand united against his nationalist spree. Thanks, [[User:Ghirlandajo|Ghirlandajo]] 14:31, 18 November 2005 (UTC)

==A bit more on the metro==

Note that the Laws of the Game are not maintained by FIFA itself; rather they are maintained by the [[International Football Association Board]], as discussed in the [[#history and development|history and development section]] above.

Hi there. I have a couple minor questions on your metro project, [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Ulitsa_Podbelskogo&curid=2197317&diff=28587939&oldid=28587890 this edit] in particular. The first one I meant to ask for a while now&mdash;it's regarding the names of the architects. You've been using their initials so far, which is understandable, considering that's probably what most of your sources are using. You do, however, also wikilink them. Now, I don't really know much about those people, but do you think they are notable enough to ever have their own articles? My point is, if the only thing they are famous for is the station(s) they designed, maybe there is no need to link their names, especially when only the last name and initials are known. Anyway, that's just my thought.

The second question is regarding the external links section. I'm not sure why you didn't like my wording ("the description of the station on..."), and I'm not going to concern myself with this, but having a note in parentheses indicating that the link leads to the site which is not in English is a common courtesy to the reader. I've read too many interesting articles that made me hungry for more, only to discover that most of the links in the external links section are to the sites written in Chinese, Dutch, or Hebrew. I admit that not many editors concern themselves with these minor details, but since you are developing quite a few articles from scratch, perhaps you'd consider it? Besides, it's often a combination of both content and those minor details that creates a synergy of a great article.&mdash;[[User:Ezhiki|Ëzhiki (erinaceus amurensis)]] 14:47, 17 November 2005 (UTC)

== Major international competitions ==

:I did not wikilink them as I did not write the original article. Sorry about the removal of the description of the links, that was a typo. But why did you revert my translits, I mean since as you said none is right I just wanted to clarify them. Besides Krasniye vs Krasnye is much more logical considering that Y is not a vowel and is not suitable to substitute Ы since the index Ye is used to substute any E that's after a vowel and hence ЫЕ ЫЙ should be translited as IYE and IY consisdering there is no Ы in english anyway, and in my opinion the Y is overused in Russian to english translits anyway. -ий, -ый, й, ы, е. Give I a chance!!![[User:Kuban kazak|Kuban kazak]] 17:21, 17 November 2005 (UTC)

=== Worldwide international competitions ===

::Sorry, my bad&mdash;it was me myself who added the wikilinks (duh!). That was in hopes someone would come and put the full names in. But since you obviously know the topic&mdash;do you think it'd be better to replace initials with full names and leave the names linked, or would it be better to simply remove the wikilinks because most of the metro stations architects were not all that notable?

:::Not notable? Nina Aleshina, Robert Pogreboi, Alexandr Dushkin... [[User:Kuban kazak|Kuban kazak]] 20:38, 17 November 2005 (UTC)

The major international competition in football is the [[Football World Cup|World Cup]] organised by FIFA. This competition takes place over a four-year period. Over 190 national teams compete in regional qualifying tournaments for a place in the finals. The finals tournament, which is held every four years, now involves 32 national teams (increased from 24 in [[1998]]) competing over a four-week period.

::::Being less than a fan of Moscow and its history, I wouldn't know. Surely, some of the architects mentioned in the metro articles are far less notable than the others. Anyway, I'm leaving this up to your judgement to delink those people who do not deserve articles of their own. All I wanted to do their was to bring someone's attention to incomplete names.&mdash;[[User:Ezhiki|Ëzhiki (erinaceus amurensis)]] 22:03, 17 November 2005 (UTC)

::Thanks for the clarification on the external links format, too.

There has been a [[Football at the Summer Olympics|football tournament]] at the [[Summer Olympic Games]] since [[1900]], except at the [[1932]] games in [[Los Angeles, California|Los Angeles]]. Originally this was for amateurs only, however since the [[1984 Summer Olympics]] professionals have been permitted as well, albeit with certain restrictions which effectively prevent countries from fielding their strongest sides Currently, the Olympic men's tournament is played at Under-23 level with a restricted number of over-age players per team; consequently the competition is not generally considered to carry the same international significance and prestige as the World Cup. A women's tournament was added in [[1996]]; in contrast to the men's event, the women's Olympic tournament is played by full international sides without age restrictions. It thus carries international prestige considered comparable to that of the [[FIFA Women's World Cup]].

::As for the transliteration (sigh), I did indeed mention that no existing system is "correct" (as well as "incorrect"). The question is again consistency. Yes, we can theoretically use "i" for "ы", but notice, however, that neither ISO-9, nor ALA-LC, nor Allworth, nor BGN/PCGN, nor even GOST systems do so. They all use "y". This is, simply put, a tradition. Why invent new rules? Do you really want to introduce ''yet another transliteration'' system to the slew of already existing ones? In the hindsight, the act of modifying BGN/PCGN (slightly!) for Wikipedia was probably not the best idea, but it was only done because using "y" to indicate "-ый" and "-ий" endings is so common when transliterating Russian into English, and because "yy" for "-ый" looks awful to an English-speaking reader. It makes sense, but it introduced elements of transcription into otherwise clean transliteration system. Substituting "i" for "ы" will add another one&mdash;but in this case the question is&mdash;why? It is certainly not traditional, and is not even more common (just google for "krasniye" vs "krasnye", or "chistiye" vs "chistye").

::I hope my explanations make sense to you. You won't believe how many times I had similar conversations in the past. So far I've been able to persuade those people that the system currently in place, while definitely not perfect, is the best for Wikipedia considering 1)&nbsp;the number of articles that already use it; 2)&nbsp;the traditions of transliterating Russian into ''English'' (this is English Wikipedia, so the other languages do not really matter much); 3)&nbsp;the fact that the output is so much readable to an English-speaking person; and 4)&nbsp;it can easily be decoded back to Cyrillics even despite some transcription elements.

::Please let me know if you wish to discuss this further. I am more than willing to. Take care,&nbsp;&mdash;[[User:Ezhiki|Ëzhiki (erinaceus amurensis)]] 18:32, 17 November 2005 (UTC)

:::It is not the question of what is commonly used, it is a question of what is correct, I mean the fact that Y is used instead of I whilst there is no ы sound in english at all is not my convention but then hey Galen was used up until 15th century before Versailles corrected him, so conventions make little difference to me, they will make even less difference to an English user, but the overwhelming preference to Y will, especially in since most of the sounds can be split easilly replaced by I. I mean compare Izmaylovsky Park to Izmailovskiy Park. You are saying that an english person will be fully alright and forgiven for saying ИзмаЫловскЫ Парк or Красн'йe Ворота. No wonder that so many foreigners can't pronounce and read Russian correctly. In addition what is Й in Russian? И-Краткое, ie ''I''-Short, so why use Y for it? [[User:Kuban kazak|Kuban kazak]] 20:38, 17 November 2005 (UTC)

=== Major international competitions ===

::::As far as "correct" goes, let me remind you that Wikipedia is not here to push correct spellings, but to represent common trends (I'll dig you a link to a specific policy, if you don't believe me). In that regards, "Kyiv" is also correct, and "Kiev"&mdash;incorrect, yet the article is at [[Kiev]] because that's what the majority of people uses. By your logic, the best way to handle Russian names is to provide phonetic transcription instead of transliteration. Surely IPA is more "correct" by your standards than any of the translit system I described above. But, transliteration, unlike transcription, renders the original name in letters the reader knows and in ways the reader can understand. Tell me, what makes ''Izmailovskiy Park'' superior to ''Izmaylovsky Park''? Following your example, it can just as easily be converted by an uninformed reader back to ''ИзмаИловскиЫ'', which is equally incorrect. Would you rather see ''Izmailovskii''? Same thing, it can be converted to ''ИзмаиловскиИ''&mdash;again, incorrect (and that is not to mention that we merely traded one ambiguity for another). What about ''Krasniye''? Why do you accept the possibility of it being read as ''КраснИе''? Face it, there is '''NO''' correct way to transliterate Russian, not if we accept your definition of "correct". In which case, why not stick with something that worked before, is working now, is not an artificial invention, and is accepted by the majority of people? I '''really''' want to hear what you have to say now.

The major international competitions of the world and the continental confederations, followed by their major club events where appropriate, are:

::::As for the "y" being used to transliterate "й"&mdash;in modern English "y" is a consonant that sometimes acts as a vowel, which pretty much makes it a semi-vowel. "Й" is also a semi-vowel. To me, that's a perfect match. I'm sure that the authors of all major transliteration systems followed the same logic.&mdash;[[User:Ezhiki|Ëzhiki (erinaceus amurensis)]] 22:03, 17 November 2005 (UTC)

* World: [[FIFA World Cup]]; [[FIFA Club World Championship]]

* Europe: [[European Football Championship|European Championship]]; [[UEFA Champions League]]

* South America: [[Copa América]]; [[Copa Libertadores de América|Copa Libertadores]]

* Africa: [[African Nations Cup]]; [[CAF Champions League]]

* Asia: [[Asian Cup]]; [[AFC Champions League]]

* North/Central America & Caribbean: [[CONCACAF Gold Cup]]; [[CONCACAF Champions Cup]]

* Oceania: [[Oceania Cup]]

:::::Kiev and Kyiv is more a question of familiarity and the comparison is more like Moscow and Moskva. I agree that it will be impossible to fully transliterate Russian into English (although it is possible to do it into Spanish and German where you have the J). In terms of pronounciaciaon of Izmailovskiy lets remeber that I in english is not limited to the и sound, in fact the sound can also be achieved in ee and ei and other examples, so why limit i to и, so why should it become in Russo-English translit. Moreover Измаиловский is actually not entirely incorrect (depending on which Russian accent you take). Anyway since "history" has made it that y represents Ы, then so be it, but representing other sounds, I can't see the disadvantage of not clarifying something like -ий with -iy. Finally I don't expect foreigners get the Ы sound at all, and most substitute with И anyway. I personally have herd them say Красние Ворота and I am alright with that but when they see something like Izmaylovsky Park most say Измаиловски Парк, I consider that to be a much more serious mistake than Красние Ворота, because this is not due to their mother tongue not having these sounds, but due to the transliteration that is given to them. Don't get me wrong I am against -ii and -yy to duplicate -ий and -ый. I thing that the former in particular should be differentiated from the latter by -iy and -yi or -yj respectivelly. Finally in relation to the Krasniye vorota. Note that the letter E has always been made very clear by (guess what) by using the Y, after a vowel it like in Alekseyevskaya and Belyayevo (I don't even want to imagine how many incorrect ways that can be pronounced), so how does Krasnye Vorota fits into this is the y used for the Ы or the E (and I'll finish with saying I have herd Красне Ворота before)[[User:Kuban kazak|Kuban kazak]] 23:05, 17 November 2005 (UTC)

== Names of the game ==

::::::Using "-iy" to represent "-ий" (but not "-ый") is actually all right, even within current policy. In the end, this is the matter of personal taste. I personally like to use "y" anyway (for, you guessed right, consistency sake), but "-iy" has equal rights.

[[Image:Soccerball.jpg|thumb|A [[football (ball)|football]]]]

::::::As for "Krasnye Vorota", "ye" for "-ые" here is used for the same reason why "yy" is not used for "-ый", which is to avoid ugliness of double y. What's more, in these borderline cases "ye" is used more often than "yye" (see google, as well as the article on [[Naberezhnye Chelny]]). So basically to conform with policies we should either use "Krasnye" (because it's more common use) or "Krasnyye" (to stick with the translit guidelines; also note that Encarta uses this convention). "Krasniye" may seem as a good idea, but, as I mentioned above, such variant is not used by any major transliteration system, and Wikipedia should mirror common knowledge/use (to the point where it does not contradict the facts, of course) instead of inventing new conventions. Again, the final variant boils to the personal preference. As for foreigners pronouncing stuff incorrectly&mdash;well, they are foreigners, they would pronounce things incorrectly and/or with accent even if transliteration were perfect.

{{main2|Football (soccer) names|Football (word)}}

::::::Anyway, I will try to compile a list of most common objections to and questions about [[Transliteration of Russian into English|current Wikipedia transliteraton system]]. I should have probably done it long ago, because having the same conversation over and over, only with different people every time, is really a chore. If you want to suggest any objections/questions for such a list, feel free to drop me a note or just continue commenting here. Thanks.&mdash;[[User:Ezhiki|Ëzhiki (erinaceus amurensis)]] 02:11, 18 November 2005 (UTC)

<!--

NB: Keep this overview article streamlined! Please place details/debate of what name is used where and other name debate issues is the dedicated article [[Football (soccer) names]] rather than here!

-->

== Ulitsa 1905 Goda ==

The rules of football were codified in England by the Football Association in [[1863]], and the name ''association football'' was coined to distinguish the game from the [[Football|other forms of football]] played at the time, specifically [[rugby football]]. The term ''soccer'' first appeared in the [[1880s]] as a slang abbreviation of Association football.

I think Ulitsa Tysyacha Devyatsot Pyatogo (1905) Goda should be shortened to Ulitsa 1905 Goda since "Ulitsa Tysyacha Devyatsot Pyatogo (1905) Goda" is rather long for an article title and makes the TKL template uncomfortably wide. I don't see any advantage to spelling out 1905, especially since "Ulitsa 1905 Goda" is the spelling commonly used elsewhere, including Metro signs. [[User:Camerafiend|Camerafiend]] 01:43, 21 November 2005 (UTC)

Today the sport is known by a number of names throughout the English-speaking world, the most common being ''football'' and ''soccer''; this has generated debate regarding the "correct" name for the sport. The term used depends largely on the need to differentiate the sport from other codes of football followed in a community. ''Football'' is the term used by FIFA, the sport's world governing body, and the [[International Olympic Committee]]. For more details of naming throughout the world, please refer to the main articles above.

:But not how its pronounced in the loudspeakers, anyway I don't really mind, but certainly spell it fully out on the article.[[User:Kuban kazak|Kuban kazak]] 08:41, 21 November 2005 (UTC)

== See also ==

<div style="float: right; clear: right; margin: 0 0 1em 1em; border: solid #aaa 1px; background: #f9f9f9; padding: 1ex; font-size: 90%;">

{|

|| [[Image:Portal.gif|Portal]]

|| '''''[[Wikipedia:Wikiportal/Association football|Football (soccer) portal]]

|}

</div>

===Other varieties of the game===

*Indoor football: [[futsal]], [[five a side football]], and [[indoor soccer]]

*Informal football-style games: see [[street football]]

*[[Paralympic football]]

::Thanks, the template looks a lot better. [[User:Camerafiend|Camerafiend]] 02:08, 22 November 2005 (UTC)

===Teams and players===

*[[List of football teams|List of club/sub-national football teams]]

*[[List of football (soccer) players|List of famous football players]]

*[[List of national football teams]]

==Volyn Crop and [[Holodomor]]==

===Gameplay===

*[[Formation (football)|Football formations]] - common team formations

*[[Football (soccer) positions|Football positions]] - common player positions

*[[Football (soccer) tactics and skills|Football tactics and skills]]

Hi Kazak, that's an interesting point that you're rising. I think the good places to check for this would be [http://www.archiwa.gov.pl/?CIDA=43 National Archives] or [http://www.aan.gov.pl/index2.htm The New Archives] (but the latter don't seem to have an English version online) or maybe [http://www.stat.gov.pl/english/index.htm Central Statistical Office]. Your question seems intriguing and I'll try to investigate it but it's going to take some time, as I'm rather busy these days. Also, we have to remeber that wikipedia is not a place for original research, so we should be rather basing on other authors' works. As far as I know there's been no famine in the 1930-s in Western Ukraine, so that would seem to confirm that the famine in Eastern Ukraine at that time had to be politically driven rather than a natural disaster. As for neutral historians (that is not Polish/Russian/Ukrainian), I've checked that Norman Davies in his "God's Playground" writes that Ukrainians in Poland at that time were horrified at their neighbours across the border starving to death. This would also confirm that it was not a natural famine, but one that was artificially made. Cheers for now. --[[User:Wojsyl|Wojsyl]] ^{([[User talk:Wojsyl|talk]])} 10:20, 21 November 2005 (UTC)

===Miscellaneous===

*[[Football around the world]]

*[[Football culture]]

*[[List of football (soccer) mascots]]

*[[Oldest football club]]s

*[[Cap (football)|Representative caps]]

*[[Women's football around the world]]

*[[Women's football (soccer)]]

== Congratulations! ==

==Further reading==

* Stefan Szymanski and Tim Kuypers (1999), ''Winners and Losers: The Business Strategy of Football'', Viking

Just want to congratulate you and your wife [[User:Alex Bakharev|abakharev]] 08:09, 22 November 2005 (UTC)

::Thank you. Summer 2006. [[User:Kuban kazak|Kuban kazak]] 22:54, 22 November 2005 (UTC)

== External linksArchitects ==

{{commons|Soccer}}

* [http://www.fifa.com/ Federation Internationale de Football Association (FIFA)]

* [http://www.the-afc.com/ Asian Football Confederation (AFC)]

* [http://www.cafonline.com/ Confederation of African Football (CAF)]

* [http://www.concacaf.com/ Confederation of North, Central American and Caribbean Association Football (CONCACAF]

* [http://www.uefa.com/ Union of European Football Associations (UEFA)]

* [http://www.conmebol.com/ South American Football Confederation (CONMEBOL)]

* [http://www.oceaniafootball.com/ Oceania Football Confederation (OFC)]

* [http://www.fifa.com/en/regulations/index.html The Current Laws of the Game (LOTG)]

* [http://www.rsssf.com/ The Rec.Sport.Soccer Statistics Foundation (RSSSF)]

* [http://www.11v11.co.uk/ Association of Football Statisticians (AFS)]

* [http://www.holycross.edu/departments/economics/vmatheso/research/soccerreview.pdf Economics of Football - Literature Review] ([[PDF]])

== Architects' initials ==

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What exactly is the problem with giving the initials of the Moscow Metro architects? [[User:Camerafiend|Camerafiend]] 01:15, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

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:I hope Kazak does not mind me answering this question for him (since it was me bugging him about it in the first place). Actually, there is really no problem. It is just preferable to give full names, if they are known. If they are not known, then, of course, initials are better than nothing, but in that case the names should probably not be wikilinked.&mdash;[[User:Ezhiki|Ëzhiki (erinaceus amurensis)]] 01:55, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

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::I suggest we leave it as surnames alone, and besides official names of Russians are never given (in Wikipedia) with their (son of ) "middle" name. So if giving initials, then just the first name.[[User:Kuban kazak|Kuban kazak]] 08:31, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

==RfAr==

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An [[Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration#Community vs. User:AndriyK|arbitration request]] against [[User:AndriyK]] has been filed. If you intend to participate/co-sign, please add your name to the "Involved parties" section and write a statement.&mdash;[[User:Ezhiki|Ëzhiki (erinaceus amurensis)]] 18:00, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

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== Question ==

[[zh-min-nan:Kha-kiû]]

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Are Kuban kazaks Russians, Ukrainians or Kazaks?

[[bn:এসোসিয়েশন ফুটবল]]

IMO it is Russian sub-ethnical group.

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RGRDS

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[[User:Ben-Velvel|Ben-Velvel]] 14:05, 24 November 2005 (UTC)

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We are Cossacks. Кубанские Казаки. Checl 2002 census.

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My opinion: the followng people Velikorossians, Malorossians, Belorossians, Pomorians, Carpathian Ruthenians and Cossacks are just the different variations of the Russian slavic group. The fact that in 1917 the term Russian was privatised to the Velikorossians is the source of confusion. Cossacks in the 1926 census could not decide where they belong and as they are neither Veliko or Malorossians, culturally and ethnically. Most of the Cossacks by default were turned into Russians (Don, Terek, Ural etc). With us Kubanese when faced with question Russian and Ukranians they would have digested it as Veliko or Malorossians? Well we are neither and there are countless ethnographical accounts which say that Cossacks are a subgroup and do not belong to either side of the eastern slavic branches. In 1926 they would have said we are Cossacks, the census people after their failed attempt to lingustically destinguish the population simply split them, 50:50 and called for further research. Thereby the census itself concludes that the data is provisionary. The fact that US government can't understand that is not surprising, I mean there is a destinct percentage of the US population that thinks in our country winter is all year round and bears walk on our streets.[[User:Kuban kazak|Kuban kazak]] 17:57, 24 November 2005 (UTC)

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What an original point of view! I must write it down. It can be used as smart joke. Especialy this part: "...Carpathian Ruthenians... variation of Rissian slavic group..." LOL!!! Did you tell them already? I think you should, Kazak - they struggle to find identity for a long time already.--[[User:Oleh Petriv|Oleh Petriv]] 02:00, 25 November 2005 (UTC)

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== Dnipro ==

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Kazak, I would gladly take into account your suggestions, but unfortunately I have low credibility in them. Even if I'm only few days here, on English Wikipedia, I have formed my opinion already on your style of writing and changes as well as couple of other "brothers" like Ghirlandajo. Sorry for being so direct. I will talk over the issue about names with Irpen. He seems to be reasonable person. And don't worry too much about poor Anglophones. In this case this excuse in nothing more than a way to promote or pro-Russian point of view.--[[User:Oleh Petriv|Oleh Petriv]] 01:56, 25 November 2005 (UTC)

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