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This talk page was [[Wikipedia:refactoring talk pages|refactored]] on 19 July 2005. Previous versions available "history" above.
''I'm currently involved in a debate over Esperanza, have a lot of other issues and whatnot, so forgive me if I can't respond quickly. I've lost precious time just typing this message!''
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==Disconnect of GW's Wealth==
"Washington farmed roughly 8,000 acres (32 km²). Like many Virginia planters at the time, he was frequently in debt and never had much cash on hand. In fact, he had to borrow £600 to relocate to New York, then the center of the American government, to take office as president.
In 1788–9, George Washington was elected the first President of the United States. The First U.S. Congress voted to pay Washington a salary of $25,000 a year—a significant sum in 1789. Washington, whose wealth by some estimates exceeded $500 million in current dollars, refused to accept his salary."
Something has to be re-worded in there.[[User:Oldsoul|Oldsoul]] 11:02, 1 October 2005 (UTC)
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==Repairs undone>==
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I'm trying to fix the article and Stephenb wants to revert for unknown reasons. [[User:Rjensen|Rjensen]] 14:49, 7 December 2005 (UTC)
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:He probably had wealth but no income (as in a regular, fixed stream of cashflows)? - just guessing --[[User:Gurubrahma|Gurubrahma]] 07:38, 17 November 2005 (UTC)
::Actually, he had quite a lot of real estate income from properties he owned on the frontier. –[[User:Shoaler|Shoaler]] ([[User talk:Shoaler|talk]]) 17:39, 17 November 2005 (UTC)
:Surely, if he had $500 million in today's dollars he would've rather liquidated a portion of it instead of borrowing $600 dollars. This has been bugging me since I first noticed the incongruence.[[User:Oldsoul|Oldsoul]] 19:44, 24 November 2005 (UTC)
::Here is what the most recent major biography (Ellis's ''His Excellency'') has to say:
:::''[In 1799, to write his will] Washington compiled a comprehensive assessment of all his property. It revealed a personal empire that included acreage in Kentucky, Maryland, New York, and Pennsylvania, housing lots in Alexandria and Federal City...and multiple plots in Virginia beyond the borders of Mount Vernon. The mother lode, however, were his tracts on the Ohio and Great Kanawha, which accounted for more than half his landed wealth. In total, he estimated his net worth at $530,000, which did not include the land and slaves at Mount Vernon.''
:::''Two facts leap out from these numbers. First, Washington was hardly the impoverished farmer he often claimed to be, especially when friends or family asked him for financial assistance. He did have what we might call a cash flow problem, meaning that his assets were tied up in land rather than more liquid forms of wealth, so he could honestly refuse a request for money on the grounds that he did not have any to spare. But the belief that Washington was living out his retirement on the edge of bankruptcy, a view that has seeped into some of the history books, is dead wrong. In fact, Washington was one of the richest men in America.'' [p. 262]
::This doesn't tell us anything about his cash flow situation ten years earlier when he assumed the presidency, but I suppose one can deduce that it was much the same. What is the source of the statement that he had to borrow £600 to move to New York? -[[User:EDM|EDM]] 20:38, 24 November 2005 (UTC)
==First President and "under the Constitution" issues==
I removed "under the current Constitution", because, despite many many urban legends, there were NO other Presidents of the United States before Washington, they were called [[President of the United States in Congress Assembled]], and was nothing more than chairman of the Continental Congress. Also, this article is a MAJOR mess. The table and the non-table entries overlap each other. -- [[User:Zoe|Zoe]]
They shouldn't overlap now--at least on my screen they don't. In general I found that most of the presidents have little to no information about them, which is why I started making the tables. I hope to follow it up with some biographical information. Even in this particular case, more space seems to be spent on the cherry tree story and his rank as a Freemason than on his actual presidency and legacy. [[User:Danny|Danny]]
:I have no problem with the tables, it was just impossible to read. :-)
::You're right, it does need work, I'll try to do some when I get a chance -- [[User:Zoe|Zoe]]
::But, they're still overlapping -- [[User:Zoe|Zoe]]
Zoe has a very valid point about the 'under the current constitution' wording. Yes there were men who had the title of ''President'' before Washington but this was because the <i>presided</i> over the Congress. The ''President'' back then would be the equivalent of the Speaker of the House combined with the responsibility of being the head of the federal government bureaucracy and, if memory serves, was appointed by Congress on a yearly basis. The Congress is where the real power was; they are the only ones who had the authority to set policy. In essence the President was little more than a bureaucrat who had to largely do the bidding of Congress. See [[President of the United States of America]] for a better explanation. Therefore it is highly misleading to say 'President under the current constitution' because the earlier position by that name is not at all what we would now call a 'President'. --[[User:Maveric149|mav]]
===President of the Union===
oop. I guess I should say a kind of "sorry" for putting back in the 11th President of the Union fact, but however you wanna wrangle with the words, he was the 11th of the Union and the 1st of the Constitutional union. If you count your country beginning in 1776 instead of 1789, you really oughta give some credit to persons at the head of it meantimes. =p In any case, I don't think it does WP any good to ignore this dispute/debate/error on the GW main page. Reword if you feel you must - there may indeed be a problem with "11th president of the USA" as opposed to "11th of the Union", but for God's sake don't go sweeping it under the rug again. There's little point to an "encyclopaedia" that simply repeats what "everyone knows" and no point to it if it's not quite the truth.
:This has been covered in discussion elsewhere (though unfortunately I don't remember exactly where); the distinction is made between [[President of the United States]] (constitutional form) and [[President of the United States in Congress assembled]] (which Washington never was). It's not so much that Wikipedia is ''ignoring'' that period (each of the previous ten has an article), but it's inaccurate to call them "President of the United States" or even "President of the Union; it was a completely different office with different powers etc. - [[User:Hephaestos|Hephaestos]] 22:12, 7 Oct 2003 (UTC)
:see [[President of the United States in Congress assembled]]. As Hephaestos points out, Wikipedia has not "simply repeated" what "everyone knows": it has sorted out the facts pertaining to this particular urban legend. -- [[User:Someone else|Someone else]] 22:19, 7 Oct 2003 (UTC)
Do we have a page for the Presidents of the Cont Congress pre Art of Confedency. I have heard the arguement of Hanson being consider the first pres because he was president of congress at the time of the adoption of the articles but what about pre AOC presidents like Handcock who was president of the congress July 1776[[User:Smith03|Smith03]] 22:33, 7 Oct 2003 (UTC)
::President at time of ''ratification'' of the articles. I'm such a nitpicking pest! - [[User:Calmypal|Woodrow XXIII<sup><small>II</small></sup>, ]][[User:Calmypal#The Imperial News Network (INN)|Emperor of the United States, Minister of Ministry]] 00:46, 22 Apr 2004 (UTC)
:I can't find one. [[User:Rmhermen|Rmhermen]] 22:50, Oct 7, 2003 (UTC)
::I made a stub at [[President of Continental Congress]]. Should it be at President of ''the'' Continental Congress? [[User:Rmhermen|Rmhermen]] 23:19, Oct 7, 2003 (UTC)
:::Now I see that [[President of Continental Congress]] and [[President of the United States in Congress assembled]] information is duplicated in the [[President of the United States]] article. Is this necessary? [[User:Rmhermen|Rmhermen]] 23:24, Oct 7, 2003 (UTC)
:::: I'd cut out extra info there and move it to the appropriate article [with the wikilink to the main article] ... for what it's worth (I made the main article links) [[User:Reddi|reddi]] 01:26, 8 Oct 2003 (UTC)
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Just a status note: I've combined the material for the two President of the Congress articles, and adjusted some of the President of the United States to try to clean up some of this whole area. I will still try to improve some of the biographies of the CC presidents. [[User:LouI|Lou I]] 23:05, 20 Jan 2004 (UTC)
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# [[User talk:DoomsDay349/Archive 1|May 2006 – October 2006]]
===Note on the Cyrus Griffin link===
# [[User talk:DoomsDay349/Archive 2|October 2006 - November 2006]]
Since the Articles of Confederation is the legitimate predecessor to the current Constitution, the link should be established showing the transition of power between authorities. -- [[User:Emperorbma|EmperorBMA / ブリイアン]] 04:25, 2 Apr 2004 (UTC)
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:In consideration, nevermind... removed. -- [[User:Emperorbma|EmperorBMA / ブリイアン]] 04:42, 2 Apr 2004 (UTC)
::Very nicely done, I think -- [[User:Nunh-huh|Nunh-huh]] 04:44, 2 Apr 2004 (UTC)
=== remove "under the constitution ===
The qualifier "under the constitution" after "first president of the US" is awkward and out of place. Do all the other presidential entries need to be amended? Should Ronald Reagon be called the 40th president "under the constitution" because there were men who held a completely seperate office but also called president under the Articles of the Confederation?
*Good point. Sometimes the thought is right there but the language isn't. Needs adjustment. [[User:Robby159|Robby159]] 15:03, 19 July 2005 (UTC)
==Religious beliefs==
The new (JUL 2004 ) article says:
"George Washington was one of the few early American Presidents who was not a total follower of any one specific Christian denomination."
I think it would be more accurate to say: "'''Like many of the Founding Fathers & earliest presidents, Washington was a Deist. He occasionally accompanied others (his wife especially) to Christian churches but never became a communicant. Before the Revolution, holding church office was a condition of membership in the Virginia House of Burgesses, and so Washington was also then a vestryman in an Episcopal church."'''
: My research indicates that virtually all presidents at least up to and including Grant cannot be counted as "Christians". A great many were Deists. Several often expressed the social utility of having people believing in some religion, without necessarily including themselves among those needing such "faith". Many accompanied their wives to church services, but did not consider themselves members of any church. Washington repeatedly left the church before communion services.
'''Many states still had established religions & religious tests for office (even in 2004 MA, MD, NC, PA, SC, TN, and TX STILL have religious tests for office)'''. No one wanted to be branded an infidel (as Jefferson had been), so there were several reasons to be quiet about not being Christians.
:Washington: http://www.infidels.org/library/historical/john_remsburg/six_historic_americans/chapter_3.html
:Adams & others: http://www.dimensional.com/~randl/founders.htm
:Jefferson: http://www.infidels.org/library/historical/john_remsburg/six_historic_americans/chapter_2.html
:Madison: http://www.humanistsofutah.org/1995/artmay95.html
:Madison: http://lcweb.loc.gov/loc/madison/hutson-paper.html
:Lincoln: http://www.adherents.com/misc/Lincoln.html
:Lincoln: http://www.positiveatheism.org/hist/steiner0.htm
:Grant: http://www.infidels.org/library/historical/john_remsburg/six_historic_americans/chapter_6.html
:4 Unitarians: http://www.mind.net/rvuuf/pages/4pres.htm
:More
:http://www.anotherperspective.org/advoc550.html
:http://www.straighttalkers.com/new_page_1.htm
:http://www.infidels.org/library/historical/franklin_steiner/presidents.html
Why can't you put all these links on an article called [[Religious beliefs]] rather than the Talk:George Washington article?? They don't necessarily have to do with George Washington. [[User:66.32.139.109|66.32.139.109]] 00:32, 22 Apr 2004 (UTC)
:They have to do with George Washington's religious beliefs. - [[User:Calmypal|Woodrow XXIII<sup><small>II</small></sup>, ]][[User:Calmypal#The Imperial News Network (INN)|Emperor of the United States, Minister of Ministry]] 00:33, 22 Apr 2004 (UTC)
::Not necessarily. They have to do with religious beliefs about the Presidents of the United States. [[User:66.32.139.109|66.32.139.109]] 00:35, 22 Apr 2004 (UTC)
:::Up to President Grant, which includes George Washington. I haven't checked, but isn't this the only article which has some focus on a President's religious beliefs? - [[User:Calmypal|Woodrow XXIII<sup><small>II</small></sup>, ]][[User:Calmypal#The Imperial News Network (INN)|Emperor of the United States, Minister of Ministry]] 00:44, 22 Apr 2004 (UTC)
::::Try moving this to the [[Talk:Presidents of the United States]] page. That makes much more sense to me because that is a page for talk about U.S. Presidents in general, while this page is for talking about George Washington Or, you may move these links to the appropriate President's page (e.g. Thomas Jefferson's religious beliefs should go on [[Thomas Jefferson]].) Any objections?? [[User:66.32.139.109|66.32.139.109]] 00:48, 22 Apr 2004 (UTC)
:::::Site by site at [[Wikipedia:Presidential religions]]? - [[User:Calmypal|Woodrow XXIII<sup><small>II</small></sup>, ]][[User:Calmypal#The Imperial News Network (INN)|Emperor of the United States, Minister of Ministry]] 00:53, 22 Apr 2004 (UTC)
: the older article said
"George Washington was arguably one of the '''few''' American Presidents who was not a Christian."
: the 2004-JUL article now says
"George Washington was one of the few early American Presidents who was not a total follower of any one specific Christian denomination."
http://www.infidels.org/library/historical/franklin_steiner/presidents.html
: "If a member of the Episcopal Church is supposed to be a communicant, Washington and William Henry Harrison were not Episcopalians; and there is no evidence Madison, Monroe, Taylor, Tyler and Arthur were. The lumping together of so many Presidents as Episcopalians is due to the fact that St. John's Church of that denomination, in Washington, is located only 3,000 yards from the White House, on Lafayette Square."
: "That Washington was a vestryman has no special significance religiously. In Virginia, this office was also political. The vestry managed the civil affairs of the parish, among others, the assessment of taxes. Being the largest property holder in the parish, '''Washington could hardly afford not to be a vestryman, which office he would have to hold before he could become a member of the House of Burgesses. Thomas Jefferson, a pronounced unbeliever, was also a vestryman, and for the same reasons'''. General A.W. Greeley once said, in 'The Ladies Home Journal,' that in that day "it required no more religion to be a vestryman than it did to sail a ship." It is remarkable, after the civil functions of the vestry were abolished in Virginia, in 1780, how few times Washington attended church. He no longer had a business reason for going."
: ...
: '''Benjamin Harrison''', the '''23rd''' President of the United States, was a great-grandson of Benjamin Harrison, who signed the Declaration of Independence, and a grandson of William Henry Harrison, the ninth President, at whose house he was born, in 1833. He was a Presbyterian, an elder in the Church, and '''the first President who was unquestionably a communicant in an orthodox Church at the time he was elected'''. Grover Cleveland was a communicant in his youth and late in life, but there is no evidence that he was such when he was first elected.
Both Adams' were Unitarian. Unitarians do not believe Jesus is/was God, and so cannot be really regarded as Christian.
Jefferson was a Deist. Madison kept his religious views to himself, but agreed with Jefferson on many things - especially separation of church & state. -- JimWae; 2004-Nov
=== Religious writings ===
It's very fair to say that GW was "religiously tolerant" and open minded, however, it's not conclusive to say that he did not view himself as a Christian. At the very least, present both aspects in the article on GW's religious beliefs and indicate there is evidence for both sides.
Numerous sources of his own writing indicate direct references to Christian belief and activity.
namely:
"... the characteristics of the Divine Author of our blessed Religion, and without an humble imitation of whose example in these things, we can never hope to be a happy Nation. "
from:
George Washington's Circular to the States, June 8, 1783, in John C. Fitzpatrick, editor, The Writings of George Washington, Vol. XXVI (Washinton: U.S. Government Printing Office, 1932), p. 496.
:'''-Response:''' '''''Divine Author''' is Deist terminology.'' --[[User:JimWae|JimWae]] 09:37, 2004 Nov 17 (UTC)
-
and a letter to the leaders of Native American communities in Delaware: (ostensibilty proselytizing)
"You do well to wish to learn our arts and our ways of life and above all, the religion of Jesus Christ. These will make you a greater and happier people than you are. Congress will do everything they can to assist you in this wise intention."
from:
George Washington's Speech to Delaware Indian Chiefs on May 12, 1779, in John C. Fitzpatrick, editor, The Writings of George Washington, Vol. XV (Washinton: U.S. Government Printing Office, 1932), p. 55.
:'''Response:'''''Many of these [[Delaware Indians]] chiefs were already Christian. The Delawares ([[Lenape]]s) were among the few Indian tribes NOT fighting against the colonists & for the British (who by [[Treaty of Paris (1763)]] had prohibited colonists from settling in Indian Territories). The Delawares were in trouble with other tribes & were (or would soon be)negotiating terms favorable to their resettlement (homes & church) further West. Washington was being diplomatic, passing responsibility to Congress, & complimenting on things they were already proud of. Many ended up mistakenly massacred by Pennsylvania militia in 1782.
:''http://www.ohiohistorycentral.org/ohc/history/h_indian/tribes/delaware.shtml''
: -- --[[User:JimWae|JimWae]] 08:08, 2004 Nov 25 (UTC)
and from a private letter:
"The Hand of providence has been so conspicuous in all this, that he must be worse than an infidel that lacks faith, and more than wicked, that has not gratitude enough to acknowledge his obligations. "
from:
George Washington's letter of August 20, 1778 to Brig. General Thomas Nelson, in John C. Fitzpatrick, editor, The Writings of George Washington, Vol. XII (Washinton: U.S. Government Printing Office, 1932), p. 343.
:'''Response:''' '''''Providence''' is Deist terminology.'' --[[User:JimWae|JimWae]] 09:37, 2004 Nov 17 (UTC)
To ignore these very easily found and referenced items and claim outright that GW was not a Christian is intellectual dishonesty and revisionism of the worst sort.
:'''Response:'''One needs to have an idea what a ''Deist'' is to participate in this properly --[[User:JimWae|JimWae]] 09:37, 2004 Nov 17 (UTC)
JJW says look here --- http://www.positiveatheism.org/hist/quotes/washington.htm
If one were to take a peek at Washington’s papers at the Library of Congress, one would quickly see that the man was not a “deist” by any stretch of the imagination. Those who say that Washington was a “deist” are not interested even in the man’s own words; they are interested in rewriting history to ease their own guilty consciences. The link above that JJW provides is one of an agenda. Why not try searching for the truth and go straight to the source?
Just one example:
http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/r?ammem/mgw:@field(DOCID+@lit(gw300388))
*There is nothing there that shows him not to be a deist, even had he written it himself --[[User:JimWae|JimWae]] 06:45, 2005 August 19 (UTC)
This is supposed to be an encyclopedia not a forum for personal agenda; deism by definition is the belief that once He created everything God no longer is involved in the affairs of man. This is clearly not what George Washington believed. In his own words:
http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/r?ammem/mgw:@field(DOCID+@lit(gw050322))
The section on Washington’s religious beliefs needs to, and will, present the truth.
*There is plenty of evidence of his deism; this is not simply a personal agenda on my part. Prayers are not always for divine intervention, but also serve as a form of meditation & self-cleansing - perhaps even with future consequences. The article mentions how important he thought religion & religious observances were. Orders he gives as a general cannot always be taken to reflect his own personal beliefs, but also can be seen as an appeal to the motivations of those he is addressing. There are also deists who do believe that God does sometimes intervene. --[[User:JimWae|JimWae]] 05:15, 2005 August 22 (UTC)
Oh, so now you interject what you "think" he might have meant with all of his ref. to God? That is "agenda" driven. Somehow I knew that you would resort to this self-interpretation of Washington's words.
*You have declared your agenda. You are making blind reversions without considering or responding to points made in edit summaries. You have removed well-supported sentences & phrases. He also supported the religious freedom of Muslims & atheists. Many Christians accept he was a deist too. Saying "among atheists & agnostics" is misleading & clearly shows your POV. Please read the [[Deism]] article--[[User:JimWae|JimWae]] 05:57, 2005 August 22 (UTC)
Sight credible sources that Washington supported “religious pluralism”; “atheism” websites will not suffice. In the meantime, also sight credible references that Washington was a “deist” and that every time he spoke of Jesus, God, righteousness, prayer, Heaven, etc., he meant it in an “deistic way. At the same time, prove that his prayer journals are not really his own.
*His support for religious freedom went beyond Jews & Christians. There is plenty of support for this and more in these links
**[http://www.infidels.org/library/historical/franklin_steiner/presidents.html Excerpts from ''The Religious Beliefs of Our Presidents'', 1936, by Franklin Steiner]
**[http://www.infidels.org/library/historical/john_remsburg/six_historic_americans/index.shtml ''Six Historic Americans'' by John Remsburg, 1906, examines religious views of Paine, Jefferson, Washington, Franklin, Lincoln, & Grant]
*Regardless of whether or not you consider them to be "atheist" sites, they are book excerpts. His prayerbook was written when he was quite young - and he abandoned it. I suggest you do more research before you revert again -- which would violate the 3RR rule. Have you even noticed you are reverting spelling corrections too?--[[User:JimWae|JimWae]] 06:18, 2005 August 22 (UTC)
You offer no proof? Only agenda-driven sources? That is not "fact".
Here is a credible source
http://www.ushistory.org/valleyforge/washington/index.html
You just violated the 3 revert rule. If you think Deists never pray, you know nothing of Deism. Have you found a single mention of Jesus anyhwere? Nothing will count as proof to those who will not consider alternative possibilities--[[User:JimWae|JimWae]] 06:31, 2005 August 22 (UTC)
You have violated the first rule: do your research!
===Jews===
: On the other hand he is also credited with the statment "The Jews work more effectively against us, than the enemy's armies. They are a hundred times more dangerous to our liberties and the great cause we are engaged in ... It is much to be lamented that each state, long ago, has not hunted them down as pest to society and the greatest enemies we have to the happiness of America."
This would appear to be a fact, why was it removed? Has anyone got proof that he never said such a thing? [http://voteforusa.com/georgew1.htm] [http://www.libreopinion.com/members/standarteslc/jewishquestion08.html] If it is in fact not true, it seems to be a popular misconception, so it should be debunked in the article. -[[User:MyRedDice|Martin]]
Martin: Both of those sources cite "Maxims of George Washington". Read more at http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Cyprus/8815/what_they_said.html about that.... --[[User:Gabbe|Gabbe]] 18:39 Dec 18, 2002 (UTC)
The following material was removed by 217.127.141.173: <blockquote>In recent years Washington's image has been unfairly tarnished by anti-Semites who attempt to use his name to further their goals. Many [[Anti-Semitism|anti-Semitic]] [[Arab]] and Neo-[[Nazi]] books, journals and websites offer forged "quotes" supposedly by America's founding fathers, especially George Washington and [[Benjamin Franklin]]. These supposed quotes have been debunked as forgeries by historians.
-
- [http://abbc.com/islam/english/toread/frnklin.htm Example of an Anti-Semitic website pushing fraudulent quotes from America's founding fathers]
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- [http://christianactionforisrael.org/antiholo/personality.html Egyptian government sponsored press spreads Anti-Semitic forgeries about Washington and Franklin]
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- [http://www.snopes.com/quotes/thejews.htm Urban Legends website debunks the anti-Semitic Washington quote forgery]</blockquote>.
The reason given (on my talk page) is that the material is "out-of-place, not noteworthy enough to be mentioned in an encyclopedia article, stigmatizing and written by somebody with an axe to grind. "
I generally find snopes.com to be quite useful in sorting out disinformation, but let others judge. -- [[User:Someone else|Someone else]] 03:32 16 Jul 2003 (UTC)
:I personally find the information somewhat irrelevant to an article on Washington, as it rarely comes up, and the single sentence already there suffices to inform that Washington was not an anti-Semite. Given that the exact same content was added word-for-word to several articles (this one and [[Benjamin Franklin]] are the two I know of), it strikes me as a somewhat POV attempt to attack Arab anti-Semitism in the guise of defending 18th-century Americans. --[[User:Delirium|Delirium]] 03:39 16 Jul 2003 (UTC)
::I don't disagree that it seems disproportionate. The Snopes link may come in handy if someone stops by to add in bogus quotes. -- [[User:Someone else|Someone else]] 03:43 16 Jul 2003 (UTC)
I think the lines badly written and out of place. [[User:Jtdirl|FearÉIREANN]] 03:50 16 Jul 2003 (UTC)
== Odd stories ==
As a matter of historical curiousity, has everyone heard the three stories about George Washington that circulated over the years:
* that Washington was a eunich;
* that 'he' was really a ''she'' in disguise; (a US presidential 'pope Joan!!!')
* that in 1798, Washington wrote a letter to ''Sally Fairfax'', wife of his friend George Fairfax, asking her to leave her husband and 'run away' with him. She never replied to his letter, helping to preserve the 'fairy tale' image of the 'George and Martha love affair' that never was true, certainly not in a sexual sense. [[User:Jtdirl|JTD]] 03:19 Feb 28, 2003 (UTC)
: I think I'd heard reference to the the third, but this is the first time I've heard the first 2 rumors. -- [[User:Infrogmation|Infrogmation]]
Apparently someone even checked his corpse just to be sure he . . . em . . . dangled (if you catch my drift!). And sure enough, he dangled. So the stories that there was something ''very'' feminine about him, with soft small hands and a lack of a need to shave. His body shape and also some his behaviour led to rumours to the effect that he could be, like the legendary and possibly mythical Pope Joan, a woman who got places in a male patriarchal society by 'pretending' to be a man. The fact that he never fathered children, had no love affairs (apart from one rumour that was spread around by friends that seems to have been intended to kill of the other rumours, just as a rumour was spread around by Lincoln's 'true love' when gossip began to spread about whether he was a homosexual) all added fuel to the fire. But then US presidents attract rumours the way Bill Clinton attracts women. And there is about as much truth to most of them as in Bill's claim that 'I did not have sex with that woman'. [[User:Jtdirl|JTD]] 05:34 Feb 28, 2003 (UTC)
== Father of his/the/our Country ==
Hmmm... I've always read this as "Father of The Country", but Google seems to disagree:
* 597 hits: "George Washington" "father of the country"
* 4730 hits: "George Washington" "father of his country"
I had changed it to "Father of the Country" before double-checking with a Google search, but a little more digging found that the most common expression seems to be:
* 8840 hits: "George Washington" "father of our country"
So, I'm going with ''that''. [[User:Daniel Quinlan|Daniel Quinlan]] 18:55, Oct 25, 2003 (UTC)
== Honored Americans ==
Do you know of a list of Americans who get honored in order by how often they get honored?? (There is a site called "The Political Graveyard" that you can use as a reference tool.) Here are some ways:
*By having a portrait on a [[denomination (currency)|denomination]] of [[United_States_coinage|U.S. coins]] or [[United_States_dollar|U.S. currency]] (For example, George Washington's portrait is on the $1 bill and quarter.)
*By having a [[state]], [[city]], or [[county]] named after him. (For example, the state of [[Washington]] as well as the capital [[city]] of the [[United States]], as well as several [[county|counties]] were named for George Washington.) The total counts as one honor per city, state, or county.
*By having a geographic feature, such as a mountain, named after him.
*By having a person from a later time in history be named for him. (For example, we have [[Washington Irving]] and [[George Washington Carver]].) The total counts as one honor per person being named.
*By being carved in a known area. (For example, George Washington has a statue carved at [[Mount Rushmore]].)
*By having a college or university named after him.
*By having a holiday in their honor.
*By being honored with an award, medal, or knighthood.
*By having a navy ship named after them.
*By being compared to another.
As far as I know, I believe it is most likely that [[George Washington]] got honored the most, followed by [[Thomas Jefferson]] and [[Benjamin Franklin]]. How far do you know about how this list goes?? Try to make it go as far as you can, at least to #10; there is no maximum limit. You may include any American who lived entirely between [[1706]] and [[1945]].
# [[Abraham Lincoln]]
# [[George Washington]]
# [[Thomas Jefferson]]
# [[Benjamin Franklin]]
# [[Andrew Jackson]]
# [[James Madison]]
# [[Theodore Roosevelt]]
# [[Grover Cleveland]]
# [[Franklin Delano Roosevelt]]
# [[William McKinley]]
# [[Alexander Hamilton]]
# [[Ulysses Grant]]
# [[Jefferson Davis]]
# [[Francis Marion]]
Some possible answers that could rank somewhere from #11 to #16 include [[James Monroe]], [[John Q. Adams]], [[Henry Clay]], [[James Polk]], [[Robert E. Lee]], and [[Woodrow Wilson]]. Try to put them wherever they go in this list, but remember that there really is no maximum, as long as you are using Americans who lived entirely between [[1706]] and [[1945]].[[User:66.32.139.147|66.32.139.147]] 17:21, 4 Apr 2004 (UTC) <!---Oops... I briefly added the Marquis de la Fayette, since virtually all places in the US called "Lafayette" or "Fayette" are named in his honor, but I realized he was a Frenchman. :) --->
===Honors===
George Washington
----
#$1 bill
#quarter
#$50 war bond
#Mount Rushmore
#Washington state
#Washington, D.C.
#Washington County, Alabama
#Washington County, Arkansas
#Washington County, Colorado
#Washington County, Florida
#Washington County, Georgia
#Washington County, Idaho
#Washington County, Illinois
#Washington County, Indiana
#Washington County, Kansas
#Washington County, Kentucky
#Washington County, Maine
#Washington County, Maryland
#Washington County, Minnesota
#Washington County, Mississippi
#Washington County, Missouri
#Washington County, Nebraska
#Washington County, New York
#Washington County, North Carolina
#Washington County, Ohio
#Washington County, Oklahoma
#Washington County, Oregon
#Washington County, Pennsylvania
#Washington County, Rhode Island
#Washington County, Tennessee
#Washington County, Utah
#Washington County, Vermont
#Washington County, Virginia
#Washington Parish, Louisiana
#Mount Washington in New Hampshire
#George Washington Carver
#Washington Irving
#''USS George Washington'' (SSBN-598)
#''USS George Washington'' (CVN-73)
#George Washington University
#Washington and Lee University
#Washington and Jefferson College
#Washington University in St. Louis (?)
#Washington Township, New Jersey
#Washington Monument, Washington, D.C.
#George Washington Doane
#Cincinnati, Ohio (he was called "The American [[Cincinnatus]]")
Thomas Jefferson
----
#$2 bill
#nickel
#Mount Rushmore
#Jefferson City, Missouri
#Jefferson, Maine
#Jefferson, Texas (Jefferson County, Texas was named for this city, not for the President)
#Jefferson County, Alabama
#Jefferson County, Arkansas
#Jefferson County, Colorado
#Jefferson County, Florida
#Jefferson County, Georgia
#Jefferson County, Idaho
#Jefferson County, Illinois
#Jefferson County, Indiana
#Jefferson County, Iowa
#Jefferson County, Kansas (?)
#Jefferson County, Kentucky
#Jefferson County, Mississippi (?)
#Jefferson County, Missouri
#Jefferson County, Montana (?)
#Jefferson County, Nebraska
#Jefferson County, New York
#Jefferson County, Ohio
#Jefferson County, Oklahoma
#Jefferson County, Pennsylvania
#Jefferson County, Washington (?)
#Jefferson County, West Virginia
#Jefferson County, Wisconsin
#Jefferson Parish, Louisiana (?)
#Mount Jefferson in New Hampshire
#Mount Jefferson in Oregon (Jefferson County, Oregon was named for this mountain, not for the President)
#Jefferson Memorial
#USS ''Thomas Jefferson'' (SSBN-618)
#Jefferson Davis
#William Jefferson Clinton
#Washington and Jefferson College
Andrew Jackson
----
#$10 bill (1914-1928)
#$20 bill (1928-present)
#Jacksonville, Florida
#Jackson, Mississippi
#Jackson, Georgia
#Jackson, Ohio
#Jacksonville, Florida (Called Cowford from 1816 to 1822)
#Jackson County, Alabama
#Jackson County, Arkansas
#Jackson County, Colorado
#Jackson County, Florida
#Jackson County, Illinois
#Jackson County, Indiana
#Jackson County, Iowa
#Jackson County, Kansas
#Jackson County, Kentucky
#Jackson County, Michigan
#Jackson County, Mississippi
#Jackson County, Missouri
#Jackson County, North Carolina
#Jackson County, Ohio
#Jackson County, Oklahoma
#Jackson County, Oregon
#Jackson County, Tennessee
#Jackson County, Texas
#Jackson County, West Virginia
#Jackson County, Wisconsin
#Jackson Parish, Louisiana
#Hickory County, Missouri (named for his nickname, "Old Hickory")
#Mount Jackson in New Hampshire
#USS ''Andrew Jackson'' (SSBN-619)
James Madison
----
#5000 bill (1918-1946)
#$200 war bond
#Madison, Wisconsin
#Madison, Georgia
#Madison, New Jersey
#Madisonville, Kentucky
#Madison County, Alabama
#Madison County, Arkansas
#Madison County, Florida
#Madison County, Georgia
#Madison County, Idaho
#Madison County, Illinois
#Madison County, Indiana
#Madison County, Iowa
#Madison County, Kentucky
#Madison County, Mississippi
#Madison County, Missouri
#Madison County, Montana
#Madison County, Nebraska
#Madison County, New York
#Madison County, North Carolina
#Madison County, Ohio
#Madison County, Tennessee
#Madison County, Texas
#Madison County, Virginia
#Mount Madison in New Hampshire
#James Madison University
#USS ''James Madison'' (SSBN-627)
Abraham Lincoln
----
#Penny
#$5 bill
#Illinois State Quarter (has Lincoln on the back)
#Mount Rushmore
#Lincoln Memorial
#Lincoln Highway (Runs from New York to San Francisco. The route is approximated today by Interstate Highway 80 and U.S. Highway 30 and was the first coast to coast paved road in the United States.)
#[http://www.alincoln-library.com Abraham Lincoln Presidential Library and Museum] (Springfield, Illinois)
#[http://www.thelincolnmuseum.org The Lincoln Museum] (Ft. Wayne, Indiana)
#[http://www.lmunet.edu/museum/Index.html The Lincoln Museum] (Harrogate, Tennessee)
#Lincoln Bedroom
#Lincoln Logs
#Lincoln Cars
#Lincoln Life Insurance Co.
#Lincoln, Alabama
#Lincoln, Arkansas
#Lincoln, California
#Lincoln, Colorado
#Lincoln, Idaho
#Lincoln, Illinois (Founded 1853, only city or town named after Lincoln during his lifetime)
#Lincoln, Indiana
#Lincoln, Iowa
#Lincoln, Kansas
#Lincoln, Nebraska (Was Lancaster until 1869)
#Lincoln, New Mexico
#Lincoln, North Dakota
#Lincoln, Maine
#Lincoln, Michigan
#Lincoln, Minnesota
#Lincoln, Missouri
#Lincoln, Montana
#Lincoln, Oklahoma
#Lincoln, Oregon
#Lincoln, Pennsylvania
#Lincoln, South Dakota
#Lincoln, Tennessee
#Lincoln, Texas
#Lincoln, Utah
#Lincoln, Washington
#Lincoln, West Virginia
#Lincoln, Wisconsin
#Lincoln Acres, California
#Lincoln Beach, Missouri
#Lincoln Beach, Oregon
#Lincoln Center, Iowa
#Lincoln Center, Maine
#Lincoln City, Indiana
#Lincoln City, Nevada
#Lincoln City, Oregon
#Lincoln Crest, California
#Lincoln Estates, Illinois
#Lincoln Estates, Virginia
#Lincoln Falls, Pennsylvania
#Lincoln Heights, California
#Lincoln Heights, Ohio
#Lincoln Heights, Illinois
#Lincoln Heights, Louisiana
#Lincoln Heights, North Carolina
#Lincoln Heights, Pennsylvania
#Lincoln Heights, Virginia
#Lincoln Hill, Pennsylvania
#Lincoln Hills, Colorado
#Lincoln Hills, Illinois
#Lincoln Hills, Indiana
#Lincoln Junction, Michigan
#Lincoln Mills, Maine
#Lincoln Park, Colorado
#Lincoln Park, Louisiana
#Lincoln Park, Michigan
#Lincoln Park, Nevada
#Lincoln Park, New Hampshire
#Lincoln Park, New Jersey
#Lincoln Park, New York
#Lincoln Park, North Carolina
#Lincoln Park, Ohio
#Lincoln Park, Pennsylvania
#Lincoln Park, Tennessee
#Lincoln Park, Texas
#Lincoln Park, Rhode Island
#Lincoln Park, Virginia
#Lincoln Park, West Virginia
#Lincoln Pioneer Village, Indiana
#Lincoln Ridge, Kentucky
#Lincoln Terrace, Arkansas
#Lincoln Terrace, Pennsylvania
#Lincoln Valley, North Dakota
#Lincoln Village, California
#Lincoln Village, Indiana
#Lincolndale, New York
#Lincolnshire, Illinois
#Lincolnshire, Indiana
#Lincolnshire, Kentucky
#Lincolnville, Indiana
#Lincolnville, Maine
#Lincolnville, Kansas
#Lincolnville, Oklahoma
#Lincolnville, Ohio
#Lincolnville Center, Maine
#Lincolnway Village, Iowa
#Lincolnwood, Illinois
#Lincolnwood Hills, Illinois
#Lincoln College (in Lincoln, Illinois - Dedicated February 12, 1865, the only college or university named after Lincoln during his lifetime)
#Lincoln University (Pennsylvania)
#Lincoln Memorial University (Tennessee)
#Lincoln County, Arkansas
#Lincoln County, Colorado
#Lincoln County, Idaho
#Lincoln County, Kansas
#Lincoln County, Kentucky
#Lincoln Parish, Louisiana
#Lincoln County, Maine
#Lincoln County, Minnesota
#Lincoln County, Mississippi
#Lincoln County, Montana
#Lincoln County, Nebraska
#Lincoln County, Nevada
#Lincoln County, New Mexico
#Lincoln County, Oklahoma
#Lincoln County, Oregon
#Lincoln County, South Dakota
#Lincoln County, Tennessee
#Lincoln County, Washington
#Lincoln County, West Virginia
#Lincoln County, Wisconsin
#Lincoln County, Wyoming
#Fort Abraham Lincoln (near Bismarck, North Dakota)
#Mount Lincoln, New Hampshire
#Lincoln National Forest, New Mexico
#''USS Abraham Lincoln'' (SSBN-602)
#''USS Abraham Lincoln'' (CVN-72)
#''Land of Lincoln'' (Illinois state nickname)
#Lincoln's Birthday (State holiday in Illinois and 20+ other states)
Theodore Roosevelt
----
#Mount Rushmore
#1906 Nobel Peace Prize
#''USS Theodore Roosevelt'' (SSBN-600)
#''USS Theodore Roosevelt'' (CVN-71)
#Medal of Honor (Posthumous, 2001)
#Theodore Roosevelt McKeldin
Franklin Delano Roosevelt
----
#Dime
#Franklin D. Roosevelt Library (Presidential library in Hyde Park, New York)
#Franklin Delano Roosevelt Memorial (Monument on Washington Mall)
#USS ''Franklin D. Roosevelt (CV-42)
#USS ''Roosevelt'' (DDG-80)
Alexander Hamilton
----
#$1000 bill (1918-1928)
#$10 bill (1928-2014)
#USS ''Alexander Hamilton'' (SSBN-617)
Jefferson Davis
----
#Jefferson Davis's Birthday (State holiday in some southern states)
Grover Cleveland
----
#$20 bill (1914-1928)
#$1000 bill (1928-1946)
#Grover Cleveland Alexander
Ulysses Grant
----
#$50 bill
#USS Ulysses Grant (SSBN-631)
William McKinley
----
#$500 bill
#Mount McKinley
#McKinely Coutny, New Mexico
Francis Marion
----
#Marion, Alabama
#Marion, Kentucky
#Marion, Indiana
#Marion, Iowa
#Marion, Massachusetts
#Marion, Ohio
#Marion, North Carolina
#Marion, South Carolina
#Marion, New York
#Marion County, Alabama
#Marion County, Arkansas
#Marion County, Florida
#Marion County, Georgia
#Marion County, Indiana
#Marion County, Iowa
#Marion County, Kentucky
#Marion County, Ohio
#Marion County, Tennessee
#Marion County, Texas
#Marion County, West Virginia
#Marion Township, Arkansas
:How come nobody is focusing on the "Honored Americans" section any more?? Can anyone think of a new Wikipedia article to move this section to?? [[User:66.32.131.87|66.32.131.87]] 20:27, 10 May 2004 (UTC)
==Birth date==
I just added some date notes to the "Early Life" section and changed the Old Style year of his birth to 1731 (I did it 1732|1731, so clicking on the Old Style year brings you to the correct Gregorian year).
Reason: At the time of Washington's birth, England started its new years on March 25, not January 1. For English Old Style dates prior to March 25, it's necessary to subtract 1 from the Gregorian year to get the correct Old Style year. See the [[Mixed-style date]] page for a good explanation of this issue. [[User:Dale Arnett|Dale Arnett]] 01:15, 12 Apr 2004 (UTC)
__
Ahem - the switch from the [[Julian calendar]] to the [[Gregorian calendar]] advanced the date by 11 days in the [[1700s]]. The ''year'', however, should really be the same - either [[1731]] or [[1732]]. I don't know which would be correct, but both the "old style" and the "new style" date must have the same year. [[User:Lupo|Lupo]] 14:52, 6 Jul 2004 (UTC)
: Forget it, I learned something new today. [[Mixed-style date|Double dating]] is really bizarre... [[User:Lupo|Lupo]] 15:10, 6 Jul 2004 (UTC)
==Washington's poet friend?==
I may be getting my Presidents mixed up, but I remember reading in one of my English classes poetry by a black female poet who held audience with Washington a couple of times -- apparently, he was quite fond of her. I recall she coined the word "Colombia" in reference to the New World in one of her patriotic poems. I've been trying to recall her name, but with no luck. Since I was thinking on writing an article on "Colombia" in this sense (the current article there on the [[Colombia|Republic of Colombia]] will have to be moved :P ), it would be good if I had her name and could find that poem... Any ideas? [[User:Garrett Albright|Garrett Albright]] 06:16, 14 Jul 2004 (UTC)
Washington apparently wrote a letter to [[Phillis Wheatley]] in appreciation of her poems. I don't know that they ever actually met or if "Colombia" appears in her poetry, but it's a place to look. -- [[User:Nunh-huh|Nunh-huh]] 06:21, 14 Jul 2004 (UTC)
::(The word in question was "[[Columbia]].")
== Birthplace ==
My book ''Presidential Places'' says that he was born in [[Washington's Birthplace, Virginia]] not [[Wakefield, Virginia]]. [[User:Patricknoddy]] [[User talk:Patricknoddy]] 15:51 August 25, 2004 (EDT)
==A series of questions==
=== [[Wakefield, Virginia|Wakefield]] ===
I edited 3 different articles. I haven't worked up the courage to write a whole article yet, but I think I will do so soon.[[User:GuyDoe|GuyDoe]] 23:33, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
[[Wakefield, Virginia]] is in [[Sussex County, Virginia]] not [[Westmoreland County, Virginia|Westmoreland County]] --[[User:Patricknoddy|Patricknoddy]] 19:57, 25 Aug 2004 (UTC)[[User:Patricknoddy]] --[[User:Patricknoddy|Patricknoddy]] 19:57, 25 Aug 2004 (UTC)[[User talk:Patricknoddy]] 15:57 August 25, 2004 (EDT)
Dang. That was fast.[[User:GuyDoe|GuyDoe]] 23:38, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
:This is a thorny issue, but I had to change it since saying his birthplace was "Washington's Birthplace" tells us nothing. I have two sources saying he was born in Wakefield; however, it's apparently in the wrong region of Virginia. Unless it's a different Wakefield, we could change it to "Pope's Creek," "Ferry Farm," or just "Westmoreland County" -- which are other locations for his birthplace I've seen. [[User:Brutannica|Brutannica]] 02:40, 26 Aug 2004 (UTC)
(:)how do i get that tan box with that start talk topic. also how do i title stuff.when you started asking me about m16s when you edited the M16 article. is this how you spell article P.S. look at my user page i made a funny. {{unsigned|GuyDoe}}
Ferry Farm was his childhood home, if I'm not mistaken (I live within a few miles of that area)... [[User:Ugen64|ugen64]] 01:21, Aug 27, 2004 (UTC)
()That helped about the m16s i edited sume stuff and i went to the history icon and D-day349 came up twice just ubove my name. maybe it was refering to me talk page. but did you edit that page?[[User:GuyDoe|GuyDoe]] 00:52, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
:Do you know his birthplace?? [[User:Brutannica|Brutannica]] 01:33, 27 Aug 2004 (UTC)
Well,What someoneis wrote "Pope's Creek," soEsperanza I guess the issue's closed. Anyone know howyou Wakefieldtold hasme tobefore dobut with anything?I fogot[[User:BrutannicaGuyDoe|BrutannicaGuyDoe]] 0301:4814, 1628 SepNovember 20042006 (UTC)
and I saw a bunch of barnstar awards wth? and esperanza what does it do like really do? you go around and edit peoples stuff. how do you know how do you know how many edits you have. what are sockpuppits. can i jion if i only have a 4 edits. does it count as an edit if the original user deletes it? {{unsigned|GuyDoe}}
His [[birthplace]] is not [[Pope's Creek, Virginia]] it is [[Colonial Beach, Virginia]]. --[[User:Patricknoddy|Patricknoddy]] 11:32, 16 Sep 2004 (UTC)[[User:Patricknoddy]] --[[User:Patricknoddy|Patricknoddy]] 11:32, 16 Sep 2004 (UTC)[[User talk:Patricknoddy]] 7:31 September 16, 2004 (EDT)
:No,does Colonialcontinuely Beachediting wasmy ''nearby'',user page after i hefudged wasn'tit actuallyup borncount there.for esperanza[[User:BrutannicaGuyDoe|BrutannicaGuyDoe]] 0003:4001, 1728 SepNovember 20042006 (UTC)
== ECOTM ==
:The website for the [[http://www.nps.gov/gewa/homepg.htm George Washington Birthplace National Monument]] reports that he was born at a place known as Pope's Creek Plantation. The closest municipality is [[Colonial Beach, Virginia]]. The first paragraph under Early Life describes this as well. Since Colonial Beach is actuall several miles distance from the monument, I think it is probably best to simply list [[Westmoreland County, Virginia|Westmoreland County]] as Place of Birth in the table with the explanation in the text. {{User:Bkonrad/sig}} 12:27, 16 Sep 2004 (UTC)
Hello Doomsday. It seems like we have only 15 members and that we still have a lot to do on the American Rev. article. Maybe, until we get more members (maybe put a notice about COTM on the Ezperanza talk page), we should give a little longer time to the article, like a month and a half. Also, since we selected the draft, I don't think I've seen any collaboration at all. There are users from COTM who are making edits, but nothing is being discussed. [[Wikipedia:Editor review/TeckWiz#second time|editor review me!]]-[[User:TeckWiz|'''T''']][[User:TeckWiz/Esperanza|<span style="color:green;">e</span>]][[User:TeckWiz|'''ckWiz''']]<sup>[[User_talk:TeckWiz|Talk]]</sup><small>[[Special:Contributions/TeckWiz|Contribs]]<sub>[http://tools.wikimedia.de/~interiot/cgi-bin/Tool1/wannabe_kate?username=TeckWiz&site=en.wikipedia.org # of Edits]</sub></small> 12:24, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
::Why not just "Pope's Creek Plantation?" [[User:Brutannica|Brutannica]] 00:40, 17 Sep 2004 (UTC)
== More questions ==
==Final Rank==
How does one add pictures to an article?[[User:GuyDoe|GuyDoe]] 23:36, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
For the record, I confirmed that Washington was indeed reappointed as a Lieutenant General after serving as President. Some sources give his rank as Major General, but a special bill authoirzing his appointment granted him three stars. He obtained 6 star rank very posthumously in 1976. -[[User:Husnock|Husnock]] 15:59, 29 July 2005 (UTC)
:Actually, the 6 star is not quite accurate. The rank is [[General of the Armies]], which was only held by [[John J. Pershing]] (besides Washington's posthumous appointment). Pershing never wore more than 4 stars, and the [[United States Army]] has never designated an insignia for that rank, which will probably not be used again. --[[User:Rogerd|Rogerd]] 17:47, July 29, 2005 (UTC)
== D-day ==
Pershing's General of the Armies position was actually different from the 6-star promotion that Washington received in 1976. Before WWII, Washington and Pershing were the highest ranked military officers in US history. After WWII, several generals received a newly created "General of the Army" rank, which carried 5 star. This included Marshall, MacArthur, Eisenhower, Bradley. President Carter raised Washington to 6 stars, a position only he holds. Not sure where Pershing falls now, but he is not an official 5 or 6 star general.
:I wrote a very large portion of the airsoft page. Please go look for mistakes. I put a blurb in its disscutions page. To get to the page type in airsoft my contrib should be the number six one at the bottom of the page it is titled Differant Airsoft Guns. Also how do you get pictures in articles.[[User:GuyDoe|GuyDoe]] 02:02, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
== Wig/powdering ==
== re: my talk page ==
So Washington didn't wear a wig. OK, I accept that. Never really questioned it, really, because every portrait I've ever seen of the man made it look like he was a closet mullet devotee rather than a wig guy.
What's wrong with the TOC???--'''''[[User:Ed|<font color="green" face="comic sans ms">E</font><font color="blue" face="comic sans ms">d</font>]]''''' <sup>[[User talk:Ed|<font color="maroon" face="comic sans ms">¿Cómo estás?</font>]]</sup> 03:08, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
However, I just reverted an anon -- and I feel bad for doing it, because it's certainly plausible -- who claimed, in the same section, that good ol' George powdered his hair. Anyone got a reference for this?--'''[[{{ns:2}}:Clawson|chris.]][[User talk:Clawson|lawson]]''' 23:21, 26 September 2005 (UTC)
== Re:loss ==
:Got a reference for him not wearing a wig? Just because that was there first, we should accept it more than a new addition? I'm not agreeing or disagreeing, just pointing out something I've noticed today - existing unsourced material is kept, while new unsourced material is discarded. --[[User:Golbez|Golbez]] 23:27, 26 September 2005 (UTC)
Hank you for the kind message, DoomsDay! I appreciate it. I'm doing okay, as I know (like WizardryDragon said) that she's out of her pain now. She was sick for a while, I am glad she is at rest.
::I sure don't. But as I mentioned, I've never seen a portrait of him wearing anything that looked like a wig. Now, I accept that wigs can be very hard to distinguish, but the wigs that were stylish in Washington's day were, uh, well, very large and showy. And if there's one thing Washington's hair isn't, it's "large and showy".--'''[[{{ns:2}}:Clawson|chris.]][[User talk:Clawson|lawson]]''' 23:33, 26 September 2005 (UTC)
I hope you're doing okay... I know the EA stuff was stressing you out (as it was us all) but I wanted to commend you for standing up for what you believe in. I most definitely admire your strength! :-)
Well, that was fast. Way to kill two birds with one stone, Josh -- that ref not only supports powdering, but that it was real hair (rather than a wig).--'''[[{{ns:2}}:Clawson|chris.]][[User talk:Clawson|lawson]]''' 23:38, 26 September 2005 (UTC)
*[http://www.mountvernon.org/visit/plan/index.cfm/pid/446/ The Mount Vernon Ladies' Association], says powder, no wig. -[[User:EDM|EDM]] 23:49, 26 September 2005 (UTC)
— [[User:E@L/Esperanza|<font color=#336600 face=papyrus>E</font>]][[User:E@L|<font color=darkred face=papyrus>ditor <font color=black>at</font> <font color=darkgoldenrod>L</font>arge</font>]][[User talk:E@L|<sup><font color=darkgoldenrod face=papyrus>(<font color=black>speak</font>)</font>]] 03:58, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
== Military Rank ==
== Here you go!! ==
George Washington wasn't the only person in history to receive the General of the Armies rank. John J. Pershing also received it, so I made that change.
Hi DoomsDay, I wanna give you this barnstar as a thanks for helping me so many times! You've earned it! Here!
== Category Scottish-American ==
[[Image:Bstares3a2.png|left|frame|A barnstar for outstanding Esperanzians!]]
This category has been added and removed a couple of times recently. In this context of the subject of this article it seems like an anachronism to me. -[[User:EDM|EDM]] 23:10, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
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