Talk:United States dollar and Talk:Wales/Archive 1: Difference between pages

Revision as of 21:38, 7 January 2006

Revision as of 21:06, 31 December 2006

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== Intro Text ==

{{Numismaticnotice}}

Is it just me or is the intro text

"The nation has had no real independence since 1282, when it was taken by the English King. It has no significant national government (see the National Assembly for Wales), does not issue its own currency and is not in control of any armed forces. These are the powers of the national government of the UK, based at Westminster."

==Mills and thalers==

a tad anti-Welsh? Seems almost unecessary information at best, Welsh-bashing at worst. Edward I is covered below, and what other nation governed externally has such a putdown for an intro? I'd rather see geographic ___location (western peninsula of GB), statement on no taxing powers, mention of the Acts of Union etc. [[User:mynameismonkey|mynameismonkey]]

There seems to be a prety big mistake ont he page regarding mills. There is no such animal, and never was. The US coin page makes no mention of them and the mill page says that while the mill was approved, it was never minted. This page says it was minted, and provides an explaination for why production was stopped.

The word "thaler" from which the word "dollar" evolved from actually comes from a woman by the name of Elizabeth Thaler. Her image adorned the obverse of the most commonly traded, pre-revolutionary silver coin in the colonies. The coins were called "thalers", and somewhere, somehow, like a lot of words in American English, "thaler" became "dollar", and we still refer to American currency as "dollars" to this day.

== Welsh Politics ==

:Mills, while never produced by the ''federal'' government, ''were'' produced by local governments.

:Secondly, I have never heard that explanation, and quite frankly, strikes me as rather unlikely

I just wanted to know, what can Orders-in-council do for Wales? I thought also that in theory, the prince of wales is actually the real Head of State in Wales?

==First half==

[[User:Amlder20|Amlder20]] 23:51, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

The first half is a bit confusing

[[user:Ilyanep|Ilyanep]]

:I'm not a constitutional lawyer, but as Wales is bound by the laws of "England and Wales" (medieval imperialist power-term if ever there was one!) then Orders in Council can be used to subject anyone in Wales to pretty much anything the Privy Council decree, just as they can in England. This came into full force during the second world war for example, when large portions of land belonging to Welsh farmers were taken away from them by the MoD under spurious O-in-C inspired control orders. The local officials on the ground were primed to say it would be "returned after the war" - of course, in many cases, it never was. [[User:MarkThomas|MarkThomas]] 08:27, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

==Explanation of $==

The Government of Wales Act 2006 means that for the first time ever Orders in Council for Wales will be signed by the Queen on the advice of the First Minister of Wales and Welsh Ministers instead of by the Prime Minister. Whilst still subject to supervision by the UK government this represents a definate step forward for Wales as far as equality with Scotland stands.

I removed the following explanation of th $:

:, which was originally a superimposed U and S

Because I believe it is wrong. I believe the $ is derived from the sign for Imperial Spain (which, as the article points out, was the source of the dollar). Can someone offer historical evidence for the US claim? [[User:Slrubenstein|Slrubenstein]]

:I believe it actually comes not from the sign for Imperial Spain, but rather from the Spanish abbreviation for "peso", which slowly overtime became the dollar symbol. -- [[user:SJK|SJK]]

==Removed list of places==

We agree that the $ derives from Spain, and is not a superimposed U and S. But I am stil not sure about the history. I do not think $ is an abbreviation of Peso; my guess is the peso (just spanish for "weight") also had the Imperial Seal on it during the colonial period. I found this:

:Cuando en Estados Unidos se decidió que la moneda única sería el dólar coexistía todavía el Spanish Dollar acuñado con el escudo de España en una de sus caras. Como se ve en la imagen tiene en sus laterales las columnas de Hércules y unos lazos que las abrazan con la inscripción "PLUS ULTRA".

I've removed the list of places which would otherwise be orphaned, as they are all now linked to, with the exception of [[Abersychan]], leaving no good reason for them being listed. [[User:Warofdreams|Warofdreams]] 17:15, 30 Sep 2003 (UTC)

:Para indicar que se pagaba con esa moneda ponían detrás de la cantidad el signo $ que recuerda la torre y la cinta que le abraza. Desde entonces pasó a ser el símbolo universal del dólar.

on the web-site, http://usuarios.lycos.es/aurenauta/spanishdolar.htm

which suggests that the two vertical lines represent the pillars of Hercules, and the S represented the sash, but I do not know how authoritative this source is! [[User:Slrubenstein|Slrubenstein]]

== Not the Royal Coat of Arms ==

It isn't. As reported, the $ sign comes from a melded PS, meaning "peso". The first written example has only one slash, not two, which sort of puts a hole in the Pillars of Hercules idea. Anyway, the whole thing was clarified by Dr. Florian Cajori - I'll find you a cite, but it may be on the [http://www.straightdope.com Straight Dope] archive - I'll try to find it when I'm not behind a firewall :) [[User:Montrealais]]

I am a republican, so what do I care? But that is not the Royal Coat of Arms for Wales. maybe it is something to do with the Prince of Wales? But he is not the sovreign so his coat of arms are not those of Wales.

:Here it is: [http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a3_178.html]. - [[User:Montrealais|Montréalais]]

:I think you're right. What references do we have for this coat of arms, and what is it supposed to be the coat of arms ''of''? I can see how the royal coats of arms for Scotland and England-and-Wales are different, because they have separate heraldic systems. But that doesn't explain how Wales could have one. Perhaps it's historical, and it's the arms of Glyndŵr or someone, but then it should be in the history section. Can anyone explain why we should keep this? [[User:Marnanel|Marnanel]] 00:47, Apr 1, 2004 (UTC)

I checked the SD site; it sounds like the ps. argument is still conjecture, although I admit no less reasonable than the Spanish seal conjecture (also, Cajori was a notable mathematician but not an historian -- which doesn't mean he was wrong, but one would still have to check his research). In any event, we still all agree that it is NOT derived from an abbreviation for "United States," which is what the article originally claimed. [[User:Slrubenstein|Slrubenstein]]

::After a little googling, it turns out that ''quarterly or and argent four lions passant gardant counterchanged'' appears to be associated with [[Llywelyn ap Gruffydd]]: [http://www.baronage.co.uk/classic1/herart07.html]. Some more searching shows that Burke's Peerage appears to believe that these are "the arms of the Principality of Wales"[http://www.burkes-peerage.net/Sites/Peerage/SitePages/page62-6d.asp], which is probably authoritative enough. [[User:Marnanel|Marnanel]] 00:59, Apr 1, 2004 (UTC)

----

:::I'm about as nationalist a Welshman as you'll ever find, but there is no "royal coat of arms" other than that of the UK. The arms depicted on the page are Llywelyn's. [[User:mynameismonkey|mynameismonkey]]

According to the [http://www.bep.treas.gov/document.cfm/18/113 Bureau of Engraving and Printing] (they make those dollars, after all):

:The origin of the "$" sign has been variously accounted for. Perhaps the most widely accepted explanation is that it is the result of the evolution of the Mexican or Spanish "P's" for pesos, or piastres, or pieces of eight. This theory, derived from a study of old manuscripts, explains that the "S," gradually came to be written over the "P," developing a close equivalent to the"$" mark. It was widely used before the adoption of the United States dollar in 1785.

::::I'm a Welshman, not a nationalist (although come on Wales, let's beat England this afternoon!) but a communist, but there are seperate coats of arms for Scotland and England (although they're almost identical). Charles as Prince of Wales has his own standard as can be seen at http://www.fotw.net/flags/gb-royal.html#pow [[User:Dafyddyoung|Dafyddyoung]] 16:38, 5 Feb 2005 (UTC)

==US dollar==

OK, I take it that the above backs up my edit today? [[User: Doops|Doops]] | [[User_talk:Doops | talk]] 06:30, 31 August 2005 (UTC)

Isn't the most common usage "US dollar" rather than "United States dollar? If I were searching on Google (for example) I'd search on "US dollar". </stupid nitpick> [[User:Tannin|Tannin]]

These 'arms' were used as the standard of Owain Glyndwr during his rebellion (1400-10). It has since become a symbol of welsh independence and can be seen particularly in North Wales. In 2003 the Millenium Stadium authorities tried to ban it from the ground as racist but backed down after many pointed out it was no more racist than the English three lions. It was flown throughout Wales (including by the National Assembly) during 2004 to mark the 600th anniversary of the first sitting of the Welsh Parliament at Machynlleth.

:[[US dollar]] redirects here. - [[User:Montrealais|Montr&eacute;alais]]

According to the www.princeofwales.gov.uk 'The Duke of Edinburgh suggested in 1962 that The Prince of Wales should have his own flag to use after his investiture exclusively for use during visits to Wales and in Welsh waters. The Queen gave her approval. The standard, devised by the College of Arms, is based on the Arms of the Principality of Wales, also known as the Arms of Llewelyn ap Gruffydd, the last native Prince of Wales.' If the College of Arms says they are the Arms of Wales then legally they are.

==Nickel==

:According to the ''Book of Public Arms'' (W.H. Fox-Davies, 2nd ecition 1915):

'''Jordan Langelier''': ''nickel is the term used by the mint. http://www.usmint.gov/about_the_mint/index.cfm?action=coin_specifications'''

:''"These arms have had some offficial recognition since the the reign of Queen elizabeth, and by a Royal Warrant, dated 1912, are now borne by the Price of wales on an inescutcheon in the centre of his arms."''

:(An inescutcheon is a small shield in the middle of the big shield)

:[[User:Lozleader|Lozleader]] 08:05, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

== Principality ==

:Yes, and the mint occasionally uses the word "penny" as well, for example at [http://www.usmint.gov/about_the_mint/fun_facts/index.cfm?action=fun_facts2]. Nonetheless, both "penny" and "nickel" are slang terms, not the name of US coins. "Nickel" doesn't mean "twentieth of a dollar", it refers to the metal that the coin is traditionally made of.

:: I don't think it's slang anymore. Today, an educated man would say he picked up a 'nickle'; saying he picked up a 'five cent piece' would be unusual. Cent/penny; there is no argument, but nickle is no longer slang. IMHO, of course ;) [[User:Jordan Langelier|Jordan Langelier]]

::: The same could be said of the "penny", in that saying "one cent piece" would be unusual. But ponder this. Each coin contains, in writing, its own name. The twenty-five cent piece, for example, says "Quarter Dollar". What is written on the "nickel"? Also, consider that the mint is only allowed to issue coins which congress authorizes it to. Read the law authorizing the issuance of the "nickel" and see what the law calls it... The word "nickel" is mentioned over at [[United_States_Coin]], which lists every denomination of coin currently or previously issued.

::: Perhaps the fine distinction we should make is this. The word "nickel" doesn't mean "twentieth of a dollar", it means "five cent coin". -[[User:º¡º|º¡º]]

Despite often being called one, I don't believe Wales is a principality. Dictionaries define one as "a territory ruled by a prince". Wales, however, isn't. "The Prince of Wales" is merely a title. He has nothing to do with the rule of Wales - Wales is ruled by the Queen, by Parliament, or by the Welsh Assembly, depending on how you look at it, but certainly has nothing to do with the Prince of Wales. -- [[User:Varitek|Varitek]]

==Green==

:Well, Kingdom is defined as "A political or territorial unit ruled by a sovereign.", and I don't really see Brenda doing much ruling as such. So does that make the UK not a Kingdom? [[User:Morwen|Morwen]] 14:25, 16 Nov 2003 (UTC)

:: Ah, but she does rule the country. She chooses the Prime Minister to wield power in her name, she has to give Royal Assent to bills, she alone has the power to dissolve Parliament, etc. I know that no royal since Anne has refused assent, and that the monarch always chooses the ruler of the party with a workable majority, and always takes the PM's advice on dissolution - but nonetheless, the powers are hers. The Prince of Wales has no power whatsoever in the rule of Wales (or any other powers unconnected with the Duchy of Cornwall, as far as I know.) [[User:Varitek|Varitek]]

The Queen cannot be considered to rule in any manner. Like Charles, she is no more than a symbol who rubber stamps parliament law. Not many realise it, but Wales is not actually considered part of the united Kingdom because it is a principality. This is the reason why the royal standard shows scotland, ireland and England twice. This is why the royal crown contains symbols of sctotland, ireland and englnad but not Wales.

In short, although it means absolutely nothing, the Prince of Wales is the monarch of Wales and Not the Queen.

::Absolute nonsense. The Queen is the monarch over all of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Wales is as much an integral part of the country as any other part. The reason the Royal standard doesn't show a Wales-related symbol is because Wales was an integral part of England when the unions with Scotland and Ireland took place. The Prince of Wales is not a monarch but a monarch-in-waiting. [[User:Owain|Owain]] 12:31, 30 October 2005 (UTC)

The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland is not one country but a Union made up of [[Wales]], [[Northern Ireland]]], [[Scotland]], [[Cornwall]], [[Cumbria]], [[Isle of Man]] and [[England]].

:Er, don't let the Manx here you say that, [[User:Rhydd Meddwl|RhM]]. The [[Isle of Man]] is a [[Crown dependency]] but not part of the [[United Kingdom]]. -- [[User:Picapica|Picapica]] 14:15, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

::Anyway, what's wrong with thinking of it as a country made up of other countries? I call Wales a country and I call the UK one too. ''Country'' is just one of those words whose definition is quite vague. But I'm really not sure if Cumbria counts as one! [[User:Garik|Garik]] 22:36, 29 April 2006 (BST)

:''The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland is not one country...''. Eh? What a load of rubbish. The United Kingdom is a [[State|state]], it is '''not''' a [[Nation state|nation state]], as it comprises several [[nation]]s. The term ''[[Country|country]]'' can be applied to both a state and a nation. So the UK '''is''' a country and Wales is a country as well. [[User:Wobble|Alun]] 06:32, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

::I agree. It's in the name, isn't it? "Consituent country"? But it bothers me that none of the UK countries are in the [[List of countries|list]]. [[User:VolatileChemical|VolatileChemical]] 16:08, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

The Queen rules the UK as a constitutional monarch,the Prime Minister governs it with parliament.

The Principality of Wales is specifically created by the Queen for her heir. It is a title but carries no governmental roles nowadays although it did in the middle ages. Wales is a Principality just as England is a Kingdom. Both are subsumed within the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

It says on the article that 'many people' object to the word Principality for Wales. Which poll of Welsh people says that? Some Welsh people with nationalist or republican sympathies dont like it many others love it. I saw a poll on BBC Wales Today that said that 77% of Welsh speakers in a poll liked the Prince of Wales. Unfortunately I cant find a link to that anywhere on the internet. This article should not be biased towards any particular political view.

----

There's this concept called [[feudalism]]. Each territorial unit has a lord, who is a vassal of a higher lord in a hierarchical structure. The term "sovereign" only applies to a lord at some level in the system when the territory he controls is... sovereign. The Prince of Wales is in name the non-sovereign feudal lord of the principality, and a vassal of the sovereign of the UK.

== De-annexation ==

Is there any good reason that all the American bills are green? I mean why didn't they use different colours for every bill like in Canada, I mean, like in every other country in the world that I have ever been to (which includes most of Western Europe, pre-Euro). [[User:Dgrant|dave]] 06:02 May 14, 2003 (UTC)

:Yeah, tradition. What I remember from school is that U.S. currency is green is because it was extremely expensive to make green ink, then (during the Civil War). But, when I started looking around, there seems to be a lot speculation, but there apparently is no one reason known, but green ink fades much more slowly than other colors. Please don't compare the Almighty Greenback to Western European currency. Seriously, though; if you were comparing it to others from all over, that would be different, but don't group the U.S. in with Western Europe and don't buy that "common culture" crap. We, really, have very little in common with Europe.

When was Wales de-annexed from England? It got annexed in [[1536]] or whenever, was considered part of [[England]] when the [[Kingdom of Great Britain]] was formed, but at some point the term 'England and Wales' began being used in legislation. Does anyone know when this was? [[User:Morwen|Morwen]] 14:27, 16 Nov 2003 (UTC)

::No doubt! I don't like this Monopoly money other countries have. Long live the greenback . . . heck, I'm upset that they've added a bit of color to the $20 bill.

:Aha, found it. [[User:Morwen|Morwen]] 15:54, 16 Nov 2003 (UTC)

:::Personally, I think all the bills should be in completely different colors. It discourages counterfeiting (as the bills are in different colors, not just green) and it looks nice. The new $20 bill just looks like it's been dipped in dark green paint or something at either end. Oh, and towards the second person, he was talking about the pre-Euro currencies. I wouldn't exactly call it the "almighty greenback" now, seeing as the US dollar is falling against many major currencies. :P

In 2006 the Government of Wales Act was given Royal Assent and for the first time in British history at least there is now a legal place called Wales that is separate from England. The Act says that there will from now on be a legal entity called 'Her Majesty the Queen in Right of Wales' which puts Wales on equal footing with Scotland and Northern Ireland. Interestingly I dont think there is a similar status for England whose laws are passed as UK laws. {{unsigned|86.132.102.96}}

==Issuance==

:The actual wording is the "Crown in right of the Welsh Assembly Government", which isn't the same thing. [[User:Owain|Owain]] <small>([[User_talk:Owain|talk]])</small> 17:55, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

I disagree, Wales was annexed into the Kingdom of England under the Act of Union 1536 and remains so to this day; thats why in law reference to England includes Wales. The Government of Wales Act 2006 will not change this, although there will be an entity known as Her Majesty in Right of Wales, Wales will not be on equal footing with Scotland, Northern Ireland and England.

I was going to change "issuance" to "issue", but I wondered if the former is actually correct usage in American English? [[User:Jimfbleak|jimfbleak]] 15:20 May 14, 2003 (UTC)

:Yes issuance is a word. Even the World Bank website uses it. [[User:Rmhermen|Rmhermen]] 15:27 May 14, 2003 (UTC)

It is still part of the Royal Kingdom of England but that means nothing as England joined with Scotland in 1603 and then Ireland in 1801 to form the United Kingdom. So Wales, England, Northern Ireland and Scotland are all subsumed within the UK. Does anyone argue England is not a country? No. So why say Wales isnt?

==Welfare increase==

==Cambria==

Did spending on welfare increase in the early 70s contributing to inflation ?

[[User:Smith03]]

>>The Romans gave Wales the name of Cambria<<

Government spending in general increased during the Johnson administration, and part of that was because of welfare programs, part of it was wartime expenditures. Also, the energy crisis of 1973 caused price shock inflation. So there were many inflationary factors at this time. [[User:128.227.191.106|128.227.191.106]] 05:29, 21 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Oh, no, they didn't. This part of the historical introduction needs rewriting.

== Page to use for the $1 bill ==

Wales, together with what is today the "West Country" of England, was a part of Britannia Prima (a 4th-century subdivision of the earlier Britannia Superior). ''Cambria'' is a Latinization of ''Cymru'' first used centuries after the Romans had quit Britain.

The [[United_States_Two_dollar_bill|$2]] through [[American_hundred_dollar_bill|$100]] bills all have their own pages. Until recently, I thought that the $1 bill should link here, but now I feel that a better page is [[Federal Reserve notes]]. Which do you think is a better page??

== The $200 billMonmouthshire ==

I'm not too clear on the details but for a long time Monmouthshire's status as being in England or Wales was somewhat ambiguous - a lot of legislation applying to Wales only would refer to "Wales and Monmouthshire". Does anyone know much about this and want to put in a note? -- [[User:Timrollpickering|Timrollpickering]] 11:00, 11 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Somebody who saw this page appears to think that there was a $200 bill with Theodore Roosevelt. What kind of person says this??

: See http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/timelines/wales/status.shtml [[User:Gareth Owen|GWO]] 12:38, 11 Feb 2004 (UTC)

General question on Welsh History.

==US $1 coin==

The second Welsh wars were started after Dafydd ap Gruffydd attacked Hawerden Castle in North Wales. From Where did he launch this attack? Anyone know? Denbigh or Caergwrle - have read differing histories.

No mention of this? - it was minted in [[2000]], and has an eagle on one side, and a Native American woman on the other side, with baby in papoose (I forget the name, someone who helped the Lewis & Clark expedition survive I think). - [[User:MPF|MPF]] 16:06, 27 Mar 2004 (UTC)

: All the books I have read say Caergwrle and it woujld make more sense geographically as a base for the raid--[[User:Snowded|Snowded]] 11:00, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

:Ah yes, the "golden dollar." Bears a likeness of [[Sacagawea]]. -- [[User:Scott Sanchez|knoodelhed]] 05:26, 28 Mar 2004 (UTC)

==Motto==

==New & old $20 notes==

Reading the bit about the introduction of new coloured bills - for how long will the old ones remain valid? - [[User:MPF|MPF]] 16:06, 27 Mar 2004 (UTC)

:American currency remains valid at face value forever. - [[User:Scott Sanchez|knoodelhed]] 05:28, 28 Mar 2004 (UTC)

::Thanks; got the impression the old style were being withdrawn because of the ease of conterfeiting them - [[User:MPF|MPF]] 11:45, 28 Mar 2004 (UTC)

:::The notes are technically valid indefinitely, but paper currency degrades a LOT with repeated handling. It is likely that the older styles of bill will become more and more rare as time passes. This doesn't, unfortunately, stop the problem of it being possible to create many Series 1990 $20 bills, screw them up a bit and pass them off with the excuse "I just found these" or similar. :( [[User:RDevz|RDevz]] 22:25, 3 Sep 2004 (UTC)

This page gives "Y ddraig Goch ddyry cychwyn" (aside: why the capital G?); the Welsh ([[:cy:Cymru|w:cy]]) article has "Cymru am byth". Which is it? [[User:Hajor|&ndash;''Hajor'']]

== Chronology of denomination articles ==

:''Cymru am Byth'' is the national motto, ''Y ddraig goch...'' is the royal motto; for about 6 years in the 1950s the national flag included a badge with the draig goch motto, but it was dropped reputedly because there's an alternative translation which is rather more, um, earthy! [[User:Arwel Parry|Arwel]] 16:29, 3 Mar 2004 (UTC)

OK, thanks. Changing the one here to ''Cymru am byth'' then. "Wales For Ever", right? [[User:Hajor|&ndash;''Hajor'']] 00:31, 4 Mar 2004 (UTC)

:Yes. [[User:Arwel Parry|Arwel]] 00:47, 4 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Hi "Y ddraig Goch.." is incorrect spelling of the motto. Its correct spelling is "Y ddraig coch ddyry cychwyn". Which means The Red Dragon Advances.

In February 2004, the articles for the $5 to $100 bills were created at pages like this: [[Five dollar bill]]. A few seconds later, they were moved to articles like this to avoid being unfair to Canadians: [[American five dollar bill]]. Originally, they had links only to articles that I thought were of great importance. Then, a few days later, people went to [[American twenty dollar bill]] and thought that it should be moved to [[United States twenty dollar bill]]. Then, someone moved the pages to articles like [[U.S. twenty dollar banknote]] and put more links in them. By then, the articles for the bill pages have improved so much. Then, finally, they moved to pages like [[U.S. five dollar bill]] because "banknote" is a primarily European term. People appeared to be doing a good job editing the bill pages. The next major change in the bill articles was to add nicknames such as "sawbuck", and then to give links to bill galleries at http://www.currencygallery.org. The next change was to add the bill's pre-Federal Reserve histories. After that, a blue box was added that simply links all denominations of coins and currency.

Can''Y youddraig thinkgoch'' ofis whatcorrect: the''draig'' nextis changefeminine inand so triggers the historiessoft mutation of the billinitial pagesconsonant shouldof be??the following adjective. --[[User:66.32.158.89Angr|66.32.158.89Angr]]/[[User_talk:Angr|_comhrá]] 1413:2407, 912 Apr 20042005 (UTC)

Y ddraig coch ddyry cychwyn is the official motto of the Welsh Office, now Wales Office. It is therefore the official motto of the UK government in Wales.

== The denomination table ==

Until very recently, the denomination table was at the top. Now, however, it is at the bottom, where it is more difficult to find. Can anyone decide where the best place to put it is?? [[User:66.32.70.244|66.32.70.244]] 01:16, 8 May 2004 (UTC)

:FWIW this comment was also left on 'needs attention'--I will remove it from there as this issue seems to have been addressed. [[User:Niteowlneils|Niteowlneils]] 01:13, 5 Jun 2004 (UTC)

:I'm not too bothered about the Wales Office but [[User:Angr|Angr]] is right; the motto is ''Y ddraig goch ddyry cychwyn'' ("The red dragon should go forward"). Actually the ''draig goch'' in question was not a dragon but a tawny-coloured bull. The motto comes from a later 15th century [[cywydd]] by the poet [[Deio ab Ieuan Du]], from [[Cardiganshire]]. It comes near the end of a ''cywydd diolch'' (a cywydd of thanks in response to a gift asked of someone by way a ''cywydd gofyn'', or "beseeching cywydd") to Siôn ap Rhys of [[Aberpergwm]]. This bull seems to have been a formidable breeder. The poet states that it and its partner are "of the breed of dragons to bring forth calves and milk". The "red dragon" (the bull) "should get going" by mounting its partner in a grove (a convention borrowed from the love poetry of the period)! Good poem too (see A. Eleri Davies (ed.), ''Gwaith Deio ab Ieuan Du'' (Cardiff, 1992): you'll find the Welsh text on pages 36-37). I don't know how the motto found its way to the Welsh Office, but I rather imagine it was a lover of Welsh literature with a sense of humour - and mischief! - who might have suggested it. Could anyone enlighten me on that part of the story? [[User:Enaidmawr|Enaidmawr]] 00:12, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

== Nickel ==

The reverse of the U.S. nickel is Monticello, Jefforson's residence, not the Indian Peace Medal. The page wont allow me to edit this so I'm posting it hear in hopes that someone else will be able to correct the mistake.

::The motto predates the Welsh Office: it was added to the badge of Wales by [[order in council]] dated [[March 11]], [[1953]]:

:Actually, as of March 1, 2004, it is now the Indian Peace Medal. It will return to Monticello in January 2006. More information can be found at [[Nickel (U.S. coin)#Westward Journey Nickel Series]]. --[[User:Pascal666|Pascal666]] 02:19, 6 Jul 2004 (UTC)

'''London Gazette Issue 39798 published on the 13 March 1953'''

'At the Court at Buckingham Palace, the llth day of March, 1953.<br>

PRESENT,

The QUEEN's Most Excellent Majesty in Council.<br>

HER Majesty was this day graciously pleased, by<br>

and with the advice of Her Privy Council, to order<br>

that for the greater honour and distinction of Wales<br>

the Royal Badge of Wales, namely, the Red Dragon<br>

passant, be augmented as follows: "Within a<br>

circular riband argent fimbriated or bearing the<br>

motto, Y-DDRAIG-GOCH-DDYRY-CYCHWYN, in<br>

letters vert, and ensigned with a representation of<br>

the Crown proper, an escutcheon per fesse argent<br>

and vert and thereon the Red Dragon passant" as<br>

in the painting hereunto annexed is more plainly<br>

depicted.<br>

And that the Most Noble Bernard Marmaduke,<br>

Duke of. Norfolk. K.G.,. G.C.V.O., £arl Marshal<br>

and Hereditary Marshal of England, do forthwith<br>

cause the necessary directions to be given herein<br>

accordingly.'

::It had earlier ([[1906]]) been included in the grant of arms to the City of Cardiff (Letters Patent dated August 26 1906). The arms themselves were an amalgam of national emblems (dragon, leek and ostrich feathers all make an appearance). As the grantee is free to chose any motto they want (as long as it isn't the royal motto), somebody connected with Cardiff corporation in the Edwardian era must have been the insigator.

== 1970s’ inflation not necessarily caused by commodity price increases ==

::[[User:Lozleader|Lozleader]] 07:58, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

==Caerdydd==

It is doubtful inflation in the 70s was caused by commodities increasing prices, as this was a worldwide phenomenon but countries had wildly varying inflation rates.

Removing a piece of useful information ('Caerdydd') from the page just because it's not English was pretty damned childish. [[User:Varitek|Varitek]] 20:48, 9 Mar 2004 (UTC)

The more likely cause was simply government spending and thus printing dollars, not only for the Vietnam war but mainly, and more enduringly, for welfare.

==Nation or not?==

That's correct. The hyperinflation of the '70s was caused by the Federal Reserve literally printing money. The deficit was financed with this newly printed money, and hyperinflation ensued. --[[User:Dissipate|Dissipate]] 17:16, 8 Jul 2004 (UTC)

The page has been edited with the comment 'Wales is not a nation'. But the OED definition of the word 'nation' includes ''A group of people having a single ethnic, tribal, or religious affiliation, but without a separate or politically independent territory.''. Therefore Wales is a nation. Besides, I'd rather talk about 'Six Nations Rugby' than 'Two nations, a combined nation and province, two countries and a principality Rugby'.

While the United States endured high rates of inflation in the 1970's, it did not approach a state that could be described as hyperinflation. [[User:Christopherparham|Christopher Parham]] 21:19, 2005 May 1 (UTC)

:Wales is a nation, a country, and a principality. Th terms are not mutually exclusive. Wales is *not* a state. It is also part of a Kingdom. [[User:mynameismonkey|mynameismonkey]]

== Crime added to the overview ==

:Although, it should become gradually obvious to a reader, it is not stated anywhere that "Wales is a nation" (or "almost universally considered to be one including by the UN and the UK government" or something if anyone objects to that statement). The word, "nation", isn't even in the article. Whereas, [[Scotland]] and [[England]] are both initially described as nations.

Recently, someone just added something about crime to the overview. Is the crime of this kind still common as of 2004?? Well, here is a question that I want to see if any registered Wikipedians can answer:

:Would anyone object if I change "is one of the four constituent parts of" to "is a nation (and one of four constituent parts) of" or "is a nation"?

:--[[User:Joeblakesley|Joe Llywelyn Griffith Blakesley]] [[user_talk:joeblakesley|_talk]] [[Special:Contributions/joeblakesley|_contrib]] 23:09, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

::Go ahead, if someone objects they will let you know [[PDQ]]. [[User:Wobble|Alun]] 07:15, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

Suppose there were a billion dollar bill. As I'm sure you know, U.S. currency is well-known internationally, and even though billion means 10^9 in the United States, it means 10^12 in many European countries. People would want to counterfeit A LOT, adding 3 extra 0's to the 1,000,000,000. Therefore, it would DEFINITELY need a new anti-counterfeiting feature of changing the footer at the bottom from "ONE BILLION DOLLARS" to something like "ONE GIGADOLLAR". How do you think people would respond??

:::Did it myself. Take care. [[User:Wobble|Alun]] 06:38, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

(Please don't read too much into this. I'm not expecting there to be a time in the near future when a billion-dollar bill enters circulation; this is only an IF statement.) [[User:66.245.10.239|66.245.10.239]] 13:35, 4 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Wales is a nation under occupation. <small>—The preceding [[Wikipedia:Sign your posts on talk pages|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:195.93.21.134|195.93.21.134]] ([[User talk:195.93.21.134|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/195.93.21.134|contribs]]) {{{2|}}}.</small>

:Any counterfeits with "1,000,000,000,000" would stand out to anyone familiar with US currency. Besides, if we ever got to such ridiculously high numbers, it would be due to [[hyperinflation]], and no one would be using such a bill outside the US. Besides, surely anyone who needs to handle US currency would take the time to familiarize themselves with the legal currency, to avoid counterfeits if nothing else, and would therefore be familiar with the fact that the US billion is his milliard [[User:Nik42|Nik42]] 09:47, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

Occupied by who the elected Welsh Assembly or the elected UK government? Both are Labour for whom the majority of Welsh people voted. Thats the problem with democracy, people dont all vote for who the nationalists want them too!

==Captialisation?==

Shouldn't the D in "United States Dollar" be capitalised? [[User:Anthony DiPierro|anthony]] [[User:Anthony_DiPierro/warning|(see warning)]] 14:36, 18 Oct 2004 (UTC)

== "Stranger or slave" ==

:To quote from another response to this same question: ''This topic has been addressed at [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Numismatics/Style]], you'rre welcome to continue it there.'' [[User:Markkawika|Markkawika]] 08:39, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

Can anyone point me to an authoritative source that shows that the Germanic root from which the name of Wales derives can mean "slave"? [[User:Marnanel|Marnanel]] 15:39, 10 Jun 2004 (UTC)

== currencies pegged to USD, countries accepting USD ==

:Wealas, from Saxon wealh - servant, slave: http://www.websters-dictionary-online.org/definition/english/we/wealas.html [[User:Mynameismonkey|Mynameismonkey]]

there is a mess in these lists on the page. Panama's currency is pegged to the USD, but they are not using USD as currency (according to the Panama Wikipedia page)

"and a few more countries use USD" - who exactly? full list needed.

East Caribbean Dollar is pegged to USD.

My understanding is that the Germanic term may ultimately come from the name of a Celtic tribe living under Roman rule, possibly the "Volcae" in what is now southern Germany or Bohemia. This led to the use of the tribe's name to mean "Romanised Celts" in general, and it is this sense which is supposed to be behind the use of the term elsewhere e.g. the "Welsh" were Romanised Celts to the Germanic Anglo-Saxon invaders, the French-speaking population of Belgium known as "Walloons" would also ultimately be descended from Romanised Celts, as would the Wallachians of modern Romania. I think Germanic tribes tended to use different terms to describe other non-Celtic "strangers". The Anglo-Saxon reference above might actually be a secondary meaning resulting from Anglo-Saxon dominance over their "Welsh" neighbours.

== International usage ==

Any academic references to back this up would of course be helpful.

I would feel better if the analysis of the Dollar/Euro interactions and the ongoing fall of the USD with respect to the EUR was backed by some citations of prominent economists. In the present state, it looks like a lot of economic speculation, that ''may'' be true, but that is surely controversial enough to warrant some back-up. [[User:David.Monniaux|David.Monniaux]] 17:54, 15 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Wealas is a Saxon word meaning foreingers, this has then developed into Wales. In 990, while it is true that the Saxons had pushed the Welsh back, Wales was still a distinctly different country that Saxon kings had no authority over. As for the Bible entry in Genesis I fail to see how an ancient book translated from Hebrew, to Latin and then into Old English is a difintive source of information.--[[User:Rhydd Meddwl|Rhydd Meddwl]] 18:49, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

Agreed. If an article is going to make me nervous, I want to see the facts to back it up. -[[User:FunnyMan3595|FunnyMan]] 23:09, Dec 30, 2004 (UTC)

:As I was writing this, I stopped to read through the history and find the initial occurance of these theories. The majority of that section was contributed by a single anonymous user way back on Nov 24 ([http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=United_States_dollar&oldid=7818956] / [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=United_States_dollar&direction=next&oldid=7818956]). I'm reverting that entire section as a precaution, others are welcome to re-add any useful and fact-backed content that was in it. -[[User:FunnyMan3595|FunnyMan]] 23:09, Dec 30, 2004 (UTC)

== "Cymru fo am byth" ==

:: Whoa there, that's a huge revert... The latter parts did sound like shaky conjecture, but the initial factoids are true. There appears to be ample reason to list and elaborate what happened so far, even if we completely omit all futurology. --[[User:Joy|Joy <small><small>&#91;shallot&#93;</small></small>]] 23:18, 30 Dec 2004 (UTC)

...means "Wales for ever", doesn't it? Some anon has just changed the translation to "Wales never yields". Can someone with more Welsh than I have comment? [[User:Marnanel|Marnanel]] 16:38, 15 Aug 2004 (UTC)

:::I've got no problem with what you put back, it looks fine to me. I was just doing a blind revert of the section and leaving it up to "the next guy"--you, in this case--to sort through the conjecture and find anything useful that was in there. You did exactly what still needed to be done, so more power to you. As it stands, though, the section could use a bit of reworking, it seems a bit fragmented, especially the line "The majority of US paper currency is actually held outside of the United States.". One line paragraphs should be avoided whenever possible. -[[User:FunnyMan3595|FunnyMan]] 23:46, Dec 30, 2004 (UTC)

:The form "Cymru fo am byth" is only used as part of the lyrics of ''[[Men of Harlech]]'' as far as I can tell [http://www.google.com/search?num=20&hl=cy&ie=UTF-8&safe=active&q=%22cymru+fo+am+byth%22&btnG=Chwiliwch (Google search).] The more popular version is "Cymru am byth", but this is still far from being a national motto. It is, however, probably the closest thing we have to one. And it means "Wales for ever", yes. [[User:Gareth Wyn|Gareth]] 21:34, 25 Aug 2004 (UTC)

== The term "buck" ==

== Cities ==

The article states the following:

An anon has added Bangor and St David's to the list of subdivisions of Wales under "cities". While it's true that they are cities, they're administered by county councils and aren't unitary authorities in the same way that Cardiff or Swansea are. I'm not sure how properly to resolve the ambiguity here; perhaps the whole section needs rewriting. [[User:Marnanel|Marnanel]] 18:55, 16 Aug 2004 (UTC)

The word "buck" is commonly used by Americans to refer to a U.S. dollar. It originated with the colonial fur trade.

== Home ==

Is this an indisputable fact? I've heard various theories about the origin of the name. At any rate, given that a deer is not a fur-bearing animal (a buck, of course, is a male deer), I don't quite see the connection with the fur trade. A little more in the way of explanation would be nice.

My great-grandfather immigrated to America around the turn of the century; so Cymru is still home to me, but I've never seen my homeland. I've tried to find research sites, but all I've gotten is sites for the damned tourists. Can anyone give me a hint as to good places to look for family in Cymru and information on it as a whole? I'd be much obliged.

== circulation.... ==

== incorrect ==

According to the ''Review Text in American History'' by Irving Gordon (1995), the amount of money in circulation in 1892 was about $20 per person. The U.S. Populist Party wanted to change the ratio to $50 per person. The text gives no references nor equations. How was this calculated?

The nation has had no real independence since 1282, when it was taken by the English King.

My second question is this...what is the ratio today? According to this [[United States dollar]] article, there is nearly US$700 billion in circulation, with an estimated half to two-thirds of it still being held overseas.

The above statement is incorrect in the sense that Wales has just as much independence as any other nation in great britain.All power is central at westminster,with representatives from both England,Scotland,Northern Ireland and Wales.

$700,000,000,000/3=233333333333.33 in circulation in the U.S.

$233333333333.33/295,786,000 people=$788.85/per person.

:Which doesn't really sound like real independence to me.

is that accurate?

both statments are incorrect

please help. [[User:Kingturtle|Kingturtle]] 01:40, 12 Apr 2005 (UTC)

The welsh people had a short spell of independence during the 1400's thanks to the King of free Wales, Owain Glyndwr currently Wales is going through the devolution process which in lamens terms means that we can make our own decisions but the english is still in overall control.

:Yes that does sound accurate. But remember that it is the amount of printed currency per person not the amount of money in the bank per person in the U.S. So I am not sure why this statistic would be important or useful for anything. --[[User:Clawed|Clawed]] 09:09, 14 May 2005 (UTC)

:The UK parliament is in control, which consists of MPs representing England and Wales (and the rest!). There are more English MPs because it is a bigger country, but most of the people in power in the cabinet actually seem to be scottish! [[User:Jameskeates|Jameskeates]] 11:43, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

Wales is unable to become an independent country because we no longer have anything worth trading.

== Dimes ==

The page mentions Eagles, Dollars and Cents as the currency of the US. However, I believe the Dime is also one. This is supported by the fact that the dime coin says "One Dime" and not "Ten Cents". Can anyone confirm this? [[User:Mkehrt|Mkehrt]]

The above is not true, Cymru has plenty of commodities worth trading, these include farming products, timber, fishing and mining, Cymru also has a tremendous amount of unexplored potential for tourism. So if Cymru became independent once more then we would be able to cope fine and our economy would actually improve than it is now.--[[User:Rhydd Meddwl|Rhydd Meddwl]] 19:36, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

:It is. Furthermore, Eagle was never an official currency unit. The US Coinage Act established Dollars as the units, Dismes (sic) equal to 1/10, Cents equal to 1/100 and Mils equal to 1/1000. Eagle was used for the name of gold coins Eagle, Half-Eagle, and Quarter-Eagle, but was never authorized as a unit of currency. It had formerly explained the use of dimes, but that was changed at some point [[User:Nik42|Nik42]] 09:49, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

Can people stop giving their opinions as facts. It is fine to say 'I think Wales should be independent' but you cannot say 'Wales should be independent' as that implies you somehow know things that noone else does.

== US Mint's New Custom ==

== "Character of the Welshman"? ==

Shouldn't we mention the US Mint's new custom of revising the 20 dollar bill's design every ten years? --[[User:Crumb|crumb]] 01:31, July 14, 2005 (UTC)

:First off, the Mint has nothing to do with banknotes, secondly, it's not just the 20 that's been revised. Everything from 5-100 was revised in the 90's, and the 20 and 50 were changed most recently, with the 10 being revised next year. Thirdly, there's nothing unusual in a government altering its paper money every so often. [[User:Nik42|Nik42]] 09:52, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

a native pure-blood welshman is a coch draig with unchallanged intelligance and language skills

==Franklin Half Dollar==

The Franklin Half Dollar was removed from the table because it was "no longer in circulation". It was restored to the table because "it is still legal tender".

My understanding is that all U.S. coins, except the gold ones removed from circulation, are still legal tender. If "legal tender" is the criteria, then almost all U.S. coins ever issued should be listed on the chart.

Would these language skills reach to the correct spelling of "Intelligence" perhaps?

The chart says it is meant for "Contemporary Designs". This raises the question of how recent a design must be to be "Contemporary". On this question, I can only speak anecdotally. The Franklin half dollar ceased production in 1963. My wife has been a bank teller since 1989 and has never seen Franklin half dollar.

:And indeed better punctuation and better Welsh (draig goch)... [[User:Garik|garik]] 14:30, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

The next most recent coin that ceased production appears to be the Eisnenhower dollar. It was in production until 1978. It is still relatively common. My wife sees these at her bank about once a month.

The Eisenhower dollar seems recent and common enough to keep in the chart. However, the Franklin seems to be a rare coin, likely to be seen only by collectors. Based on that, and its position as the coin with the oldest circulation date on the chart, it seems reasonable to remove it from a chart of "Contemporary Designs". --[[User:Seitz|Seitz]] 06:54, 6 September 2005 (UTC)

Actually it's ddraig goch ;)

The Franklin half dollar, '''along with any other U.S. coin that contains silver (pre-1965)''', is no longer in circulation. If one looks at the history of this article, the Franklin half dollar was mistakenly put in as an entry that would belong to a table of all U.S. coins. --[[User:DieYuppieScum|Kurthalomieu J. McCool]] 07:12, September 6, 2005 (UTC)

:No it's not! Well, it is if there's a definite article (so y ddraig goch), but the radical form (meaning '(a) red dragon') is ''draig goch'', as in 'Draig goch yw pob Cymro y mae ei waed yn bur':) [[User:Garik|garik]] 11:19, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

:A few silver coins are in circulation. I've run across a few silver dimes and 1 silver quarter since I started paying attention to that about a few months ago [[User:Nik42|Nik42]] 21:35, 9 November 2005 (UTC)

== Age breakdown ==

::But, by the same logic, Indian Head cents are still in circulation too. I've found 2 in my lifetime, but this doesn't necessarily mean that are "in circulation". Circulation is being used here as a relative term meaning, more or less, "active circulation" and not fluke instances of a coin surfacing. --[[User:DieYuppieScum|Kurthalomieu J. McCool]] 22:53, 9 November 2005 (UTC)

Why are the age ranges listed so skewed?

== New security features? ==

Its no surprise, and not really informative, that the age ranges spanning 15 years have more people in that range than the ranges that span only 2 years. I'm not quite sure what this is supposed to show. Whatever it is intended for, I'm sure it could be done better by having a more balanced distribution of ranges, perhaps targetting a 10 year span for each group.

[[User:Tritium6|Tritium6]] 20:40, 28 Dec 2004 (UTC)

:Those are the age ranges used by the 2001 Census site. -- [[User:Arwel Parry|Arwel]] 21:05, 30 Dec 2004 (UTC)

One rabbit for you to cahse at the battle of Boworth field Henry tudor a welshman had abanner for hos army it was the red dragon ( cadwaladr banner) which is now that of wales. why is this not in your history . This factb is recorded in many history books

Yes the history should make it clearer that the Welsh Twdur/Tudor family took over the English throne by force of arms and from that date on the monarchy was English and Welsh in nature as shown by the use of the Welsh Dragon on the Royal Coat of Arms. It was the Scottish Stuarts who removed the Welsh Dragon and replaced it with a Scottish unicorn. Sometimes history reads like it was all done to Wales when in reality Welsh people, in proportion to their small population size, were just as important in the history of the UK as the other three nations.

I was wondering, are there going to be any new security features on bills besides the EURion constellation? Like, for example, a holographic patch or strip, or a broken number as featured on the Canadian and European notes?

== $Images Orof US$ In Wikipedia?Wales ==

HowI've dochanged Ithe image refergallery to USmake Dollarsuse inof Wikipedia's articles?'gallery' template, Iswhich itseems "$"to orbe "US$"?less intrusive E.for g.the overall feel of "the ticketpage. costsI've $10"also oradded "thesome ticketphotos costsof US$10"?important Welsh Iinstitutions. e.If doesyou don't like the dollarchanges, symbolfeel alwaysfree referto revert back to the USold currencystyle, ifI'm not alternativelyentirely affixedconvinced (C$,of A$,the etc.)?change myself! --[[User:MaikelTwrist|MaikelTwrist]] 1323:4627, 518 NovemberMay 2005 (UTC)

:I would assume it would depend on context. If the context is clear what nation you're talking about, I see no reason to put a disambiguating abbreviation, whether US or other [[User:Nik42|Nik42]] 08:37, 6 November 2005 (UTC)

== Province?? ==

::The Good Style at [[Wikipedia:Naming conventions (currency)#Currency]] says it should be "US$", but it's still marked "proposed," and I agree that there is no ambiguity here. —[[User:RandallJones|RandallJones]] 18:48, 11 November 2005 (UTC)

Wales is a country and nation under english occupation, the same being with scotland and n ireland.

:::Thanks for the link and info! --[[User:Maikel|Maikel]] 14:04, 19 November 2005 (UTC)

I can rest assure everyone here that Wales is not a province. Wales is a country, the first country to unite with England as a matter of fact to form the United Kingdom. Maybe before 1955 Wales was a province of England, but not anymore. The words "Provincial Capital" have been removed.

== Dollar coin nicknames ==

[[User:Draig goch20|Draig goch20]] 13:01, Jun 8, 2005 (UTC)

I've never heard "Gold dollar" or "Sackey" for the Sacagawea dollar, or "Suzy B" for the Susan B Anthony dollar, but I ''have'' heard "Silver Dollar" for both of those, despite the illogic, especially with the Sacagawea one. [[User:Nik42|Nik42]] 08:39, 6 November 2005 (UTC)

<br><br>

::When speaking with tellers, they would laugh in your face if you called either of the small dollars "silver". The "Silver Dollar" is the nickname of the Large Size only. Everyone I have ever encountered knows what a "Suzy B." is. They do get confused when you talk about the "Gold Dollar" but understand when you say "Golden Dollar". "Sacky" is very common among the actual users and proponents of the coins. [[User:TEG24601|TEG]] 14:44, 11 November 2005 (UTC)

Wales is not a country. It is considered by many to be one but factually is not. It is a sovereign state and part of a country.[[User:Palx|<font color="#002266">'''Pal'''<font color="#FF8800">'''''X''''']] 14:19, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

<br>

: Actually, that's not true. Wales is not a country (the only countries in the British Isles are the United Kingdom and the Republic of Ireland), and hasn't been a country for over 700 years, for that matter. It's a ''nation'', and legally a principality, but it isn't a country.

: I think we should revert your removal.

: [[User:Jdforrester|James F.]] [[User_talk:Jdforrester|(talk)]] 13:43, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC)

::You're right, but 'capital' by itself is sufficiently NPoV. After all we can have 'capitals' of counties, &c. Of course this doesn't get into the debate as to whether we need regional capitals or not, and why it should be Cardiff, but that's another debate! :) [[User:Owain|Owain]] 15:23, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Thats like saying that Scotland isn't a country? or England for that matter? and those countries do consider themselves "Countries". What makes it different for Wales, does it make it easier for others to walk all over us?

== Vending machines? ==

[[User:Draig goch20|Draig goch20]] 18:38, Jun 21, 2005 (UTC)

::Well they aren't are they? The UK is the country, which consists of multiple parts. Why do people get all worked up about it anyway? Like you said it makes no real difference, it's all about perception. I'm sure some people in Catalonia or the Basque region consider those places to be separate ''de facto'' countries, but they are not ''de jure''. [[User:Owain|Owain]] 18:46, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)

''As most vending machines are incapable of making change in banknotes, they are frequently designed to give change in dollar coins and occasionally half-dollar coins.''

:::The situation is different, though, because, so far as I am aware, there is no particular official term to refer to the constituent parts of the UK. [[Catalonia]] is an autonomous community (and used to be, I think, a region). But there is no proper term for what England is, or what Scotland is. I'd certainly like to see some evidence that "nation" is used in any more official sense than "country." Certainly the adjective "national" is used to refer to things pertaining to the whole UK, so the UK, in addition to being a state, would appear to be a nation ''and'' a country, as well. The basic fact is, there is no good term for describing any of these places. [[User:John Kenney|john]] [[User_talk:John Kenney|k]] 18:53, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I went into google and it actually states something different. "the territory occupied by a '''nation'''; "he returned to the land of his birth"; "he visited several European countries" type in "define: Country". I am not arguing, I am clearing things up, we have alway's considered ourselves a "Country" and so do Welsh politicians. The UK is a Union of Countries, one a former province (Wales) and two other countries, Scotland and England.

I've never seen a vending maching give change in half-dollars, and have only heard of the Post Office's stamp dispensers giving change in dollar coins. I'm revising that [[User:Nik42|Nik42]] 21:30, 9 November 2005 (UTC)

[[User:Draig goch20|Draig goch20]] 18:53, Jun 21, 2005 (UTC)

::Half dollar coins are rarely used for change from machines. However, many toll systems use them for change, especially on ferry systems like the [[Washington State Ferries]]. [[User:TEG24601|TEG]] 14:46, 11 November 2005 (UTC)

::Ah yes, the old Google = truth test. You may well 'consider' Wales to be a country, and that is your prerogative, but the UK is not a union of countries, it is one country. Wales has never really existed as a single unified entity, even up to the Laws in Wales Act 1543, there was 'the principality' and the Marches. Prior to the Norman invasion of Britain it was a number of separate kingdoms, as was England. The concept of Wales existing as a separate entity that joined a 'Union of countries' a la the EU is pure fiction. [[User:Owain|Owain]] 19:05, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Wales is not a country. It's a common misconception, the same as believing England &c. are countries. It's simply not true. Wales is a region within the country known as the UK. As evidence, I offer the UN's list of member states:

== Federal Reserve ==

http://www.un.org/Overview/unmember.html

''Some cynics also point out that the Federal Reserve makes more profit from dollar bills than dollar coins because they wear out in a few years, whereas coins are more permanent.''

https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/uk.html

I don't think this is true, as the Federal Reserve doesn't make money from ''replacing'' worn-out bills, only from printing ''new'' bills. Am I mistaken, or is that actually incorrect? [[User:Nik42|Nik42]] 21:32, 9 November 2005 (UTC)

Both of these sources include the UK as a country and neither of these sources include Wales as a country.

:I actually think you're correct. They would have to lose money, because they replace the worn out bill with a new one, removing no money from the overall supply. That is nothing but an expense. [[User:Markkawika|Markkawika]] 08:28, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

Now unless those claiming that Wales is a country can offer some evidence beyond "Google says" and "everybody knows", this article should be fixed so that it does not refer to Wales as a country.

== deprecated ==

Jim 06:38, 18 Sep 2005 (UTC)

:Hi, Jim. Nobody disagrees with you that Wales, like the other parts of the UK, isn't a sovereign state. The problem is simply with the semantics of the word "country." We're not trying to imply that Wales is an independent country; but many people use the word "country" in another sense which does not require full legal independence. [[User: Doops|Doops]] | [[User_talk:Doops | talk]] 06:06, 18 September 2005 (UTC)

"Large U.S. denominations (deprecated)" is probably bad wording. I had read a "fun fact" once that stated no bill in the history of the u.s. has ever been recalled or deprecated.

Precisely. This is a semantic issue and 'country' is just a rather vague term. Compare the word 'Britain'. It has no official status. Northern Ireland is a part of the United Kingdom, but not Great Britain; whether or not it's part of 'Britain' depends what you mean by the word - and there's no right or wrong about it. In the same way, Wales is a nation and a principality, but not a sovereign nation (or state). There's no right or wrong about calling it a country, however, because the word 'country' is not defined precisely enough. If England, Scotland, (or indeed the Basque Country) are countries, then so is Wales. If they're not, then Wales isn't either. But it's not a matter of right or wrong. Gareth 19:12 26 April 2006

:I don't know what you or the article mean by deprecated, i had to look it up [http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/deprecated]. Which is not that same as "depreciate"(to lessen the value of). Which would be true, large bills, i believe $1000 and above are no longer produced, and when one is turned into a bank they send it into the fed. that would sound like a phase out, or deprecation to me. As for straight up recall, seems weird that none have occured, but I'll have to check it out. [[User:Searchme|<font color="#0047AB">Joe I</font>]] 02:00, 18 November 2005 (UTC)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

== "Dollar" vs. "dollar" ==

WALES IS A COUNRTY<br />

ENGLAND IS A COUNTRY<br />

SCOTLAND IS A COUNTRY<br />

NORTHERN IRELAND IS THE ONLY PROVINCE IN THE UK<br />

The great Cymraeg rebellion overthrough the english oppressors and reclaimed our title as a country! people seem to be missing the fact that when asked in the UK what your ethnic origin is you can selet welsh, scottish, english and irish. Why call the United Kingdom united if its all one country? shouldn't it just be "kingdom"? North and south Wales are provinces of Wales, the welsh language is very different in the north of wales.

I believe this article should be "United States Dollar" rather than "... dollar", and all specific references to the USD should capitalize the word. This is an official monetary unit (and, therefore, a "title"). Essentially, the difference in reference is between "a dollar" (a value) and "The Dollar" (a title). [[User:RadioKirk|RadioKirk]] 04:38, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

I agree Cymru is not a currently an indepedent country but then neither is Scotland or England, they are all ruled from a Westminister government that has elected represantatives from all of the countries of the UK. The UK is not a country but a Union of Countries. The Commonwealth Games are happening now and unless I am greatly, greatly mistaken Scotland, England and Wales are all taking part as diferent countries.--[[User:Rhydd Meddwl|Rhydd Meddwl]] 19:55, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

:This topic has been addressed at [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Numismatics/Style]], your welcome to continue it there. :) [[User:Searchme|<font color="#0047AB">Joe I</font>]] 04:51, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

== Three $1 coins ==

Why are three different one-dollar coins listed in the chart? The Golden Dollar is the only one minted and the only one considered current by the Mint. If we're going to list the SBA and the Eisenhower, why not the Franklin half-dollar and the Buffalo nickel, among others?

There seems to be a nerve been touched here, I am shocked that these people aren't calling England a country. The three nations of the United Kingdom, as the Prime Minsters site suggests are "Three countries in one". There would be no need for devolution if Wales and Scotland were not countries, just not sovereign countries. I will search for where I found this.

The Buffalo nickel has been gone from production since 1938; nearly 70 years ago. In constrast, the Susan B. Anthony dollar has only been gone since 2000 (it was last minted in 1999.) [[User:Georgia guy|Georgia guy]] 14:52, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

[[User:Draig goch20|Draig goch20]] 19:18, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

:There seem to be a lot of poorly informed people out there. Please learn the difference between a [[State]], a [[Country]] and a [[Nation]] before commenting on them. If you are really on the ball you might like to have a go at [[Ethnic group]] as well. In summary:<br>

:I find a length-of-time argument to be unconvincing. How long does it have to be out of production before it's no longer included? 5 years, 10 years, 15 years, 20 years? The Eisenhower dollar has been out of production for nearly 30 years. And one never encounters one in general circulation. At least the SBA's are still out there (when I ask my bank for a roll of dollars, I generally get a mixed roll that's about 1/2 Golden and 1/2 SBA).

*'''State''': ''A state is a set of institutions that possess the authority to make the rules that govern a society, having internal and external sovereignty over a definite territory. Following Max Weber's influential definition, a state has a 'monopoly on legitimate violence'. Hence the state includes such institutions as the armed forces, civil service or state bureaucracy, courts, and police.''

*'''Nation''': ''One of the most influential doctrines in history is that all humans are divided into groups called nations. It is an ethical and philosophical doctrine in itself, and is the starting point for the ideology of nationalism. The nationals are the members of the "nation" and are distinguished by a common identity, and almost always by a common origin, in the sense of ancestry, parentage or descent.''

*'''Country''': ''In political geography and international politics a country is a geographical territory. It is used casually in the sense of both the concept of nation (a cultural entity; see below) and state (a political entity). Some definitions tend to place it as meaning only state, though general use is wider than this.''<br>

:So do we get it? A state is a legal entity recognised as such internationally, a nation is a group of people who share a common identity and a country is a geographical region, either that of a state or that of a nation. So Wales is a nation and is also a country, it is not a State, but if it ever got independence it would be a [[nation-state]], something the United Kingdom is not.

[[User:Wobble|Alun]] 05:49, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

Since the Royal Assent of the Government of Wales Act 2006 Wales now has a legal personality seperate to that of the UK e.g. Her Majesty in Right of Wales. This has some repercussions on this debate. From now on there will be truely Welsh laws signed by the Queen specifically as head of state of Wales rather than the UK. The advice to sign them will be given by Welsh Ministers not UK ministers although the UK government will be able to quosh those laws until a referendum of the Welsh people says otherwise. But from now on Wales is a part of the UK because it chooses to, it has the legal identity now to leave if a referendum said so. {{unsigned|86.132.102.96}}

:If we're including everything that's in general circulation, why are the Monticello-back nickel and the eagle-back quarter excluded? Those will even be produced again after the special series are done, unlike the SBAs, which are gone forever. The time argument doesn't work here, because the eagle-back was last produced in 1998, while the Monticello-back was last produced in 2003 and will be produced again this year. [[User:Jwolfe|Jwolfe]] 21:38, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

:This makes no difference. In the unlikely event of an independence referendum, a 'yes' result would result in a separate legal entity in any case. [[User:Owain|Owain]] <small>([[User_talk:Owain|talk]])</small> 18:36, 9 September 2006 (UTC)