Outsourcing and Talk:Wales/Archive 1: Difference between pages

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== Intro Text ==

'''Outsourcing''' (or '''contracting out''') is often defined as the delegation of non-core [[Business Operations|operations]] or jobs from internal production within a business to an external entity (such as a [[subcontractor]]) that specializes in that operation. Outsourcing is a business decision that is often made to lower costs or focus on [[core competence|competencies]]. A related term, [[offshoring]], means transferring work to another country, typically overseas. Offshoring is similar to outsourcing when companies hire overseas subcontractors, but differs when companies transfer work to the same company in another country. "Outsourcing" became a popular [[buzzword]] in [[business]] and [[management]] in the mid-[[1990s]].

Is it just me or is the intro text

"The nation has had no real independence since 1282, when it was taken by the English King. It has no significant national government (see the National Assembly for Wales), does not issue its own currency and is not in control of any armed forces. These are the powers of the national government of the UK, based at Westminster."

==Overview==

a tad anti-Welsh? Seems almost unecessary information at best, Welsh-bashing at worst. Edward I is covered below, and what other nation governed externally has such a putdown for an intro? I'd rather see geographic ___location (western peninsula of GB), statement on no taxing powers, mention of the Acts of Union etc. [[User:mynameismonkey|mynameismonkey]]

Outsourcing is defined as the "the process of transferring an existing business function, including the relevant physical and/or human assets, to an external provider in order to strategically use outside resources to perform activities previously handled in-house."<ref>Baziotopoulos, 2006</ref>

Outsourcing involves transferring a significant amount of management control and decision-making to the outside supplier. Buying products from another entity is not outsourcing or out-tasking, but merely a vendor relationship. Likewise, buying services from a provider is not necessarily outsourcing or out-tasking. Outsourcing always involves a considerable degree of two-way information exchange, coordination, and trust.

== Welsh Politics ==

Organizations that deliver such services feel that outsourcing requires the turning over of [[management]] responsibility for running a segment of business. In theory, this business segment should not be mission-critical, but practice often dictates otherwise. Many companies look to employ expert organizations in the areas targeted for outsourcing. Business segments typically outsourced include [[information technology]], [[human resources]], [[facilities management|facilities]] and [[real estate]] management, and [[accounting]]. Many companies also outsource customer support and [[call center]] functions, manufacturing and engineering. Outsourcing business is often characterized by expertise not inherent to the core of the client organization.

I just wanted to know, what can Orders-in-council do for Wales? I thought also that in theory, the prince of wales is actually the real Head of State in Wales?

The overhead costs of customer service are typically less where outsourcing has been used{{citation needed}}, leading to many companies, from utilities to manufacturers, closing their in-house customer relations departments and outsourcing their customer service to third party call centers. The logical extension of these decisions was of outsourcing labor overseas to countries with lower labor costs, this trend is often referred to as offshoring of customer service.

[[User:Amlder20|Amlder20]] 23:51, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

Due to this demand, call centers have sprung up in [[Economy of Canada|Canada]], [[Economy of China|China]], [[Eastern Europe]], [[Economy of India|India]], [[Economy of Sri Lanka|Sri Lanka]], [[Economy of Israel|Israel]], [[Economy of Ireland|Ireland]], [[Economy of Pakistan|Pakistan]], [[Economy of the Philippines|Philippines]], and even the [[Caribbean]].

:I'm not a constitutional lawyer, but as Wales is bound by the laws of "England and Wales" (medieval imperialist power-term if ever there was one!) then Orders in Council can be used to subject anyone in Wales to pretty much anything the Privy Council decree, just as they can in England. This came into full force during the second world war for example, when large portions of land belonging to Welsh farmers were taken away from them by the MoD under spurious O-in-C inspired control orders. The local officials on the ground were primed to say it would be "returned after the war" - of course, in many cases, it never was. [[User:MarkThomas|MarkThomas]] 08:27, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

Many companies, most notably [[Dell]], have gained significant negative publicity for their decisions to use outsourced labor for customer service and technical support. One of the most prominent customer complaints is that the outsourced staff deliver a lower quality of service to customers. A prominent business complaint is that outsourcing only offers an industry average cost structure, potentially reducing competitive advantage.<ref>[http://news.zdnet.com/2100-9584_22-5182611.html ZDNet 2004].</ref>

The Government of Wales Act 2006 means that for the first time ever Orders in Council for Wales will be signed by the Queen on the advice of the First Minister of Wales and Welsh Ministers instead of by the Prime Minister. Whilst still subject to supervision by the UK government this represents a definate step forward for Wales as far as equality with Scotland stands.

A related term is '''[[out-tasking]]''': turning over a narrowly-defined segment of business to another business, typically on an annual contract, or sometimes a shorter one{{citation needed}}. This usually involves continued direct or indirect management and decision-making by the client of the out-tasking business.

==Removed list of places==

The term "outsourcing" became more well known largely because of a growth in the number of high-tech companies in the early 1990s that were often not large enough to be able to easily maintain large customer service departments of their own{{citation needed}}. In some cases these companies hired technical writers to simplify the usage instructions of their products, index the key points of information and contracted with temporary employment agencies to find, train and hire generally low-skilled workers to answer their telephone technical support and customer service calls{{citation needed}}. These agents generally worked in call centers where the information needed to assist the calling customer was indexed in a computer system. The agents were often not able to tell the customer they did not actually directly work for the original manufacturer. In some cases, the agents are not allowed to even give out their real name.

I've removed the list of places which would otherwise be orphaned, as they are all now linked to, with the exception of [[Abersychan]], leaving no good reason for them being listed. [[User:Warofdreams|Warofdreams]] 17:15, 30 Sep 2003 (UTC)

===Shared services===

Organizations now often establish [[shared services]] within their firm as an alternative to outsourcing{{citation needed}}. Shared Services are the convergence and streamlining of an organization’s functions to ensure that they deliver the organization the services required of them as effectively and efficiently as possible{{citation needed}}. Rather than having a department (e.g. human resources) devolved over a number of offices, a shared service is the centralizing and convergence of these. This often involves the centralizing of back office functions such as HR and Finance but can also be applied to the middle or front offices. A key advantage of this convergence is that it enables the appreciation of economies of scale within the function and can enable multi function working (e.g. linking HR and Finance together, where there is the potential to create synergies). A large scale cultural and process transformation is often a key component of a move to shared services. This transformation often results in a better quality of work life for employees.{{citation needed}}

== Not the Royal Coat of Arms ==

===Outsourcing, offshoring, and offshore outsourcing===

Note that “outsourcing,” “offshore outsourcing,” and “offshoring” are used interchangeably in public discourse despite important technical differences. To be consistent, “outsourcing,” in corporate context, represents an organizational practice that involves the transfer of an organizational function to a third party.<ref>[http://www.napawash.org/Pubs/Off-ShoringJan06.pdf NAPA 2006: 38 (pdf)]</ref> When this third party is located in another country the term “offshore outsourcing” makes more sense. “Offshoring,” in contrast, represents the transfer of an organizational function to another country, regardless of whether the work stays in the corporation or not.<ref>[http://www.napawash.org/Pubs/Off-ShoringJan06.pdf NAPA 2006: 38 (pdf)]</ref> In short, “outsourcing” means sharing organizational control with another organization, or a process of establishing network relations within an organizational field. "Offshoring,” on the other hand, represents a relocation of an organizational function to a foreign country, not necessarily a transformation of internal organizational control.

I am a republican, so what do I care? But that is not the Royal Coat of Arms for Wales. maybe it is something to do with the Prince of Wales? But he is not the sovreign so his coat of arms are not those of Wales.

==Types of outsourced work==

{{copyedit}}

:I think you're right. What references do we have for this coat of arms, and what is it supposed to be the coat of arms ''of''? I can see how the royal coats of arms for Scotland and England-and-Wales are different, because they have separate heraldic systems. But that doesn't explain how Wales could have one. Perhaps it's historical, and it's the arms of Glynd&#373;r or someone, but then it should be in the history section. Can anyone explain why we should keep this? [[User:Marnanel|Marnanel]] 00:47, Apr 1, 2004 (UTC)

Some outsourcing companies use a competition/contest-style approach to get their advanced work done as well as to hunt for international talents for potential employment.

::After a little googling, it turns out that ''quarterly or and argent four lions passant gardant counterchanged'' appears to be associated with [[Llywelyn ap Gruffydd]]: [http://www.baronage.co.uk/classic1/herart07.html]. Some more searching shows that Burke's Peerage appears to believe that these are "the arms of the Principality of Wales"[http://www.burkes-peerage.net/Sites/Peerage/SitePages/page62-6d.asp], which is probably authoritative enough. [[User:Marnanel|Marnanel]] 00:59, Apr 1, 2004 (UTC)

===Data analysis===

{{expert}}

:::I'm about as nationalist a Welshman as you'll ever find, but there is no "royal coat of arms" other than that of the UK. The arms depicted on the page are Llywelyn's. [[User:mynameismonkey|mynameismonkey]]

Every organization generates huge chunks of data. Hidden in them is information. Data analysis is the crucial process to extract information out of the otherwise random pile of data. The analysis results in gaining intelligence, such as trends, out of the data. This is vital in any processes let it be banking operations, retail or pharmaceutical research. Depending on the process, varying amounts of data are generated. These amounts reflect in quality as well as quantity. Similarly, the analysis requirements differ, contingent on the method. For example, the huge chunk of data generated by drug trials needs to be analyzed to conclude the result. Likewise, data from a diversified field needs to be pulled together and analyzed to forecast the trend in the stock market.

::::I'm a Welshman, not a nationalist (although come on Wales, let's beat England this afternoon!) but a communist, but there are seperate coats of arms for Scotland and England (although they're almost identical). Charles as Prince of Wales has his own standard as can be seen at http://www.fotw.net/flags/gb-royal.html#pow [[User:Dafyddyoung|Dafyddyoung]] 16:38, 5 Feb 2005 (UTC)

There are numerous ways the outsourcing is exploited for business advantages. For example, the data generated out of the [[New York Stock Exchange]] (NYSE), during the day's transaction, is sent to the analysis centers at [[Bangalore, India]] which is at the opposite end of the time zone. The Data Analysts perform the analysis required for the trading company executives and send it back to New York. The day for the New York executive starts with the needed picture processed out of the data.

OK, I take it that the above backs up my edit today? [[User: Doops|Doops]] | [[User_talk:Doops | talk]] 06:30, 31 August 2005 (UTC)

===Research process===

This is treated as a [[niche]] sector in outsourcing. The research processes are outsourced in full or in parts. Whether it is research in [[nanotechnology]] or research in [[genetics]], the process is viable for outsourcing. Generally larger research projects are cut into various sub projects or tasks. The outsourcing is then carried out based on the viability and competitiveness of the outsourcing destinations. Thus exploiting the competitiveness available at various parts of the world into a single large project. The research process outsourcing (RPO) is also known as [[Knowledge Process Outsourcing]] (KPO), as it calls for the application of specialized knowledge of a high level. The KPO typically involves a component of Analysis Proves Outsourcing (APO) and [[Research Process Outsourcing]] (RPO). [[General Electric]] is one of the pioneers in RPO.

These 'arms' were used as the standard of Owain Glyndwr during his rebellion (1400-10). It has since become a symbol of welsh independence and can be seen particularly in North Wales. In 2003 the Millenium Stadium authorities tried to ban it from the ground as racist but backed down after many pointed out it was no more racist than the English three lions. It was flown throughout Wales (including by the National Assembly) during 2004 to mark the 600th anniversary of the first sitting of the Welsh Parliament at Machynlleth.

===Customer support===

Outsourced customer support has been a huge trend as of late. Small to large corporations have outsourced to support to companies that specialize in these services.

According to the www.princeofwales.gov.uk 'The Duke of Edinburgh suggested in 1962 that The Prince of Wales should have his own flag to use after his investiture exclusively for use during visits to Wales and in Welsh waters. The Queen gave her approval. The standard, devised by the College of Arms, is based on the Arms of the Principality of Wales, also known as the Arms of Llewelyn ap Gruffydd, the last native Prince of Wales.' If the College of Arms says they are the Arms of Wales then legally they are.

===Information technology operations===

This is one of the newcomers in the outsourcing arena. The task basically involves the management of information technology assets of corporations from a remote ___location. For example the management of a computer network of a large corporation includes outage monitoring, alarms monitoring, remote monitoring of data centers, etc. The nature of these operations calls for a real-time support when the need arises. That means such tasks are not easily outsourced to the places in far time zones. Instead it’s outsourced to comparable time zone locations, which are competitive. This need for the geographical proximity earned it a specific name ''Near sourcing''.

:According to the ''Book of Public Arms'' (W.H. Fox-Davies, 2nd ecition 1915):

===Engineering design===

:''"These arms have had some offficial recognition since the the reign of Queen elizabeth, and by a Royal Warrant, dated 1912, are now borne by the Price of wales on an inescutcheon in the centre of his arms."''

Anything from design of huge refineries to wristwatch design can be outsourced. This is probably the next matured outsourcing process after the software development outsourcing. There are two types of business houses in this arena. The first is the captive design houses, which are design houses setup for the exclusive work of one client. There are different cases such as the parent company themselves setup the design center at a different (economically competitive) country or partner with another company at the outsourcing ___location or completely depend on the partners resources (with appropriate contractual obligations). Popularly such facilities are called Offshore Development Center (ODC). The second types of design firms are open in nature. That’s they win contracts for design from customers in an open market, just like any other services for sale.

:(An inescutcheon is a small shield in the middle of the big shield)

:[[User:Lozleader|Lozleader]] 08:05, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

== Principality ==

A typical specialty of engineering design outsourcing includes Structural design (buildings, factories, bridges, etc.), Hardware design (consumer electronics, home appliances, toys, industrial instruments, etc.), Product design ( medical devices, white goods, automobiles, etc.), Architectural design, Mechanical engineering (Gas turbines, aircraft engines, automobile parts, etc.)

Despite often being called one, I don't believe Wales is a principality. Dictionaries define one as "a territory ruled by a prince". Wales, however, isn't. "The Prince of Wales" is merely a title. He has nothing to do with the rule of Wales - Wales is ruled by the Queen, by Parliament, or by the Welsh Assembly, depending on how you look at it, but certainly has nothing to do with the Prince of Wales. -- [[User:Varitek|Varitek]]

===Medicare===

This is often touted as the most promising yet contentious area of outsourcing. The services that can be outsourced in [[Medicare]] could be anything from the trivial keying in of the physicians transcript (in audio) of the treatment records into a structured documents to physically sending the patients to another country for treatment. Other services include using the service of radiologists at a remote but competitive country to interpret scan images such as CT or [[MRI]].

:Well, Kingdom is defined as "A political or territorial unit ruled by a sovereign.", and I don't really see Brenda doing much ruling as such. So does that make the UK not a Kingdom? [[User:Morwen|Morwen]] 14:25, 16 Nov 2003 (UTC)

A recent example of Medicare outsourcing is that of United Kingdom’s decision to send blood and urine samples from [[National Health Service]] (NHS) patients to India for [[pathology test]]s to cut cost. The non-emergency requirements (where the results are required not within 48 hours) of pathology tests are conducted at the clinical lab setup at [[Mumbai]], India. The [[blood sample|blood]] and [[urine sample]]s are flown to Mumbai. The 24-hour lab conducts the test and the results are uploaded into the special network linked to the NHS. The NHS hospitals in the UK get the reports in 24 hours.

:: Ah, but she does rule the country. She chooses the Prime Minister to wield power in her name, she has to give Royal Assent to bills, she alone has the power to dissolve Parliament, etc. I know that no royal since Anne has refused assent, and that the monarch always chooses the ruler of the party with a workable majority, and always takes the PM's advice on dissolution - but nonetheless, the powers are hers. The Prince of Wales has no power whatsoever in the rule of Wales (or any other powers unconnected with the Duchy of Cornwall, as far as I know.) [[User:Varitek|Varitek]]

Another larger area of outsourcing in biological area is [[bioinformatics]] and [[biotechnology]]. Here again the outsourcing ranges from data analysis to basic research.

The Queen cannot be considered to rule in any manner. Like Charles, she is no more than a symbol who rubber stamps parliament law. Not many realise it, but Wales is not actually considered part of the united Kingdom because it is a principality. This is the reason why the royal standard shows scotland, ireland and England twice. This is why the royal crown contains symbols of sctotland, ireland and englnad but not Wales.

===Legal support services===

Works outsourced in this field range from those in the techno-legal (such as drafting patent claims) to the keying in of legal transcripts (from audio) to structured legal documents. Patent application preparation is a painstakingly labor intensive process (searching patents all over the world) that demands special knowledge in the subject under patenting and the legal requirements. Nevertheless this is a multibillion dollar business and hence its place in the outsourcing arena.

In short, although it means absolutely nothing, the Prince of Wales is the monarch of Wales and Not the Queen.

===Art, animation, editorial and DTP work===

::Absolute nonsense. The Queen is the monarch over all of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Wales is as much an integral part of the country as any other part. The reason the Royal standard doesn't show a Wales-related symbol is because Wales was an integral part of England when the unions with Scotland and Ireland took place. The Prince of Wales is not a monarch but a monarch-in-waiting. [[User:Owain|Owain]] 12:31, 30 October 2005 (UTC)

This is where the creative business finds its overseas partners at a competitive country. Anything from apparel design to cartoon animation in the creative business is outsourced. For example, creative houses are setup at competitive locations to get the animation of movies done.

Another example is [[Desktop Publishing|DTP]] work. The text transcript of a book can be sent to another country, where designing takes place (typeset, artwork, illustrations, cover design etc). This can then be directly sent to press.

The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland is not one country but a Union made up of [[Wales]], [[Northern Ireland]]], [[Scotland]], [[Cornwall]], [[Cumbria]], [[Isle of Man]] and [[England]].

===Software development===

:Er, don't let the Manx here you say that, [[User:Rhydd Meddwl|RhM]]. The [[Isle of Man]] is a [[Crown dependency]] but not part of the [[United Kingdom]]. -- [[User:Picapica|Picapica]] 14:15, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

This is likely the most talked about subject in the outsourcing field.{{citation needed}} Due to the nature of programming, the outsourcing of software development has evolved more rapidly than other areas of job outsourcing.{{citation needed}}

::Anyway, what's wrong with thinking of it as a country made up of other countries? I call Wales a country and I call the UK one too. ''Country'' is just one of those words whose definition is quite vague. But I'm really not sure if Cumbria counts as one! [[User:Garik|Garik]] 22:36, 29 April 2006 (BST)

* [[Software development]] e.g. [[TopCoder]]

:''The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland is not one country...''. Eh? What a load of rubbish. The United Kingdom is a [[State|state]], it is '''not''' a [[Nation state|nation state]], as it comprises several [[nation]]s. The term ''[[Country|country]]'' can be applied to both a state and a nation. So the UK '''is''' a country and Wales is a country as well. [[User:Wobble|Alun]] 06:32, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

* '''Business process'''

::I agree. It's in the name, isn't it? "Consituent country"? But it bothers me that none of the UK countries are in the [[List of countries|list]]. [[User:VolatileChemical|VolatileChemical]] 16:08, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

See [[Business Process Outsourcing]]

* '''Home Tutors'''

* '''Translators'''

The Queen rules the UK as a constitutional monarch,the Prime Minister governs it with parliament.

===Environmental services===

The Principality of Wales is specifically created by the Queen for her heir. It is a title but carries no governmental roles nowadays although it did in the middle ages. Wales is a Principality just as England is a Kingdom. Both are subsumed within the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

It says on the article that 'many people' object to the word Principality for Wales. Which poll of Welsh people says that? Some Welsh people with nationalist or republican sympathies dont like it many others love it. I saw a poll on BBC Wales Today that said that 77% of Welsh speakers in a poll liked the Prince of Wales. Unfortunately I cant find a link to that anywhere on the internet. This article should not be biased towards any particular political view.

Many large institutions have outsourced the management of their environmental service facilities, such as laundries and waste management plants, to service providers. Thus, while appearing to save on operating costs, the institution gives up control of these vital functions to the outsourcing company.

----

There's this concept called [[feudalism]]. Each territorial unit has a lord, who is a vassal of a higher lord in a hierarchical structure. The term "sovereign" only applies to a lord at some level in the system when the territory he controls is... sovereign. The Prince of Wales is in name the non-sovereign feudal lord of the principality, and a vassal of the sovereign of the UK.

== De-annexation ==

==Benefits of outsourcing==

The fact that many large businesses outsource and continue to outsource suggests that, in many cases, outsourcing is successful in that it increases product quality, lowers costs substantially, or both. Some economists have argued that outsourcing is a form of technological innovation analogous to machines on a car assembly line. [[Ford Motor Company]] relied heavily on workers in the past to assemble car parts. Today these workers are replaced by machines because they are cheaper in the long run, produce better quality products, or a combination of the two (the firm is trying to increase its quality to cost ratio, quality being defined by the consumer and inferred from revenue). Economists state that machines on the car assembly line must have a higher quality to cost ratio than workers because, if they didn't, there would be no [[incentive]] for the firm to replace workers with machines. Although workers’ jobs were lost from this replacement of workers with machines, the Ford Motor Company made more money by lowering costs (and increasing quality, thereby increasing revenue). Some argue that greater profits to the labor owners lead to higher [[consumption (economics)|consumption]], which leads to further job creation, allowing those who lost jobs to gain jobs in other sectors of the economy. A firm's motivation for replacing workers with machines is identical to the motivation for outsourcing, i.e. the firm is trying to maximize the quality of its product given cost (its [[productivity (economics)|productivity]]). Because outsourcing allows for lower costs, even if quality reduces slightly or not at all, productivity increases, which benefits the economy in aggregate.

When was Wales de-annexed from England? It got annexed in [[1536]] or whenever, was considered part of [[England]] when the [[Kingdom of Great Britain]] was formed, but at some point the term 'England and Wales' began being used in legislation. Does anyone know when this was? [[User:Morwen|Morwen]] 14:27, 16 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Professor Drezner reports that for every dollar spent on outsourcing to India, the United States reaps between $1.12 and $1.14 in benefits. Drezner also points out that large software companies such as Microsoft and Oracle have increased outsourcing and used the savings for investment and larger domestic payrolls.

:Aha, found it. [[User:Morwen|Morwen]] 15:54, 16 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Likewise, outsourcing can present advantages to non-Western states. "Developing" countries, such as China or India, benefit from the patronage of companies that outsource to them - in terms of increased wages, job prestige, education and [[quality of life]].

In 2006 the Government of Wales Act was given Royal Assent and for the first time in British history at least there is now a legal place called Wales that is separate from England. The Act says that there will from now on be a legal entity called 'Her Majesty the Queen in Right of Wales' which puts Wales on equal footing with Scotland and Northern Ireland. Interestingly I dont think there is a similar status for England whose laws are passed as UK laws. {{unsigned|86.132.102.96}}

On a political level, there are also benefits. As [[Thomas L. Friedman]] details, countries with a vested interest in their economies are much less likely to go to war, and there is virtually no possibility that they will go to war with countries that participate in their economies. Although, it is worth noting that Germany and Britain were each other's largest trading partners prior to the start of World War I.

:The actual wording is the "Crown in right of the Welsh Assembly Government", which isn't the same thing. [[User:Owain|Owain]] <small>([[User_talk:Owain|talk]])</small> 17:55, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

I disagree, Wales was annexed into the Kingdom of England under the Act of Union 1536 and remains so to this day; thats why in law reference to England includes Wales. The Government of Wales Act 2006 will not change this, although there will be an entity known as Her Majesty in Right of Wales, Wales will not be on equal footing with Scotland, Northern Ireland and England.

===Response to benefits of outsourcing===

It is still part of the Royal Kingdom of England but that means nothing as England joined with Scotland in 1603 and then Ireland in 1801 to form the United Kingdom. So Wales, England, Northern Ireland and Scotland are all subsumed within the UK. Does anyone argue England is not a country? No. So why say Wales isnt?

It is apparent that many organizations today are making the decision to outsource. In today’s global marketplace outsourcing has made itself accessible to many organizations on a National and International level. Offshore outsourcing has provided many businesses with the opportunity to harvest the benefits of lower labor costs and to exploit the value of less than par foreign currencies. Through outsourcing companies today have the ability to develop competitive strategies that will leverage their financial positions in the ever competitive global marketplace.

==Cambria==

Some of the major advantages that today’s organizations can expect to obtain through outsourcing are:

>>The Romans gave Wales the name of Cambria<<

====Ability to purchase intellectual capital====

Oh, no, they didn't. This part of the historical introduction needs rewriting.

Through outsourcing, today’s businesses have the ability to utilize the technological know- how of other organizations. This allows businesses to find the specific requirements they need to implement their target objectives.

Wales, together with what is today the "West Country" of England, was a part of Britannia Prima (a 4th-century subdivision of the earlier Britannia Superior). ''Cambria'' is a Latinization of ''Cymru'' first used centuries after the Romans had quit Britain.

====Ability to focus on core competencies====

== Monmouthshire ==

Outsourcing allows businesses to delegate non-vital projects they need completed to vendors. This ultimately provides an organization with the ability to focus on distinctive core competencies which will help yield long term benefits. If an organization experiences long term advantages from well developed core competencies they are said to have achieved a sustainable competitive advantage.

I'm not too clear on the details but for a long time Monmouthshire's status as being in England or Wales was somewhat ambiguous - a lot of legislation applying to Wales only would refer to "Wales and Monmouthshire". Does anyone know much about this and want to put in a note? -- [[User:Timrollpickering|Timrollpickering]] 11:00, 11 Feb 2004 (UTC)

====Ability to better anticipate future costs====

: See http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/timelines/wales/status.shtml [[User:Gareth Owen|GWO]] 12:38, 11 Feb 2004 (UTC)

General question on Welsh History.

Organizations that choose to outsource have the ability to determine exact future costs. Prior to the contract development of any outsourcing agreement, the outsourcing company develops a request for proposal (RFP) document which highlights the major requirements and scope of the project which is to be outsourced. Through bids vendors have the ability to make offers to perform the outsourcing for the given project. When a bid has been accepted the organization has an exact figure illustrating what the expense will be to outsource the project.

The second Welsh wars were started after Dafydd ap Gruffydd attacked Hawerden Castle in North Wales. From Where did he launch this attack? Anyone know? Denbigh or Caergwrle - have read differing histories.

: All the books I have read say Caergwrle and it woujld make more sense geographically as a base for the raid--[[User:Snowded|Snowded]] 11:00, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

==Motto==

====Ability to lower costs====

This page gives "Y ddraig Goch ddyry cychwyn" (aside: why the capital G?); the Welsh ([[:cy:Cymru|w:cy]]) article has "Cymru am byth". Which is it? [[User:Hajor|&ndash;''Hajor'']]

Overall outsourcing is viewed by many organizations as a strong business tactic that ultimately is a superior economical approach to developing products and services.

:''Cymru am Byth'' is the national motto, ''Y ddraig goch...'' is the royal motto; for about 6 years in the 1950s the national flag included a badge with the draig goch motto, but it was dropped reputedly because there's an alternative translation which is rather more, um, earthy! [[User:Arwel Parry|Arwel]] 16:29, 3 Mar 2004 (UTC)

OK, thanks. Changing the one here to ''Cymru am byth'' then. "Wales For Ever", right? [[User:Hajor|&ndash;''Hajor'']] 00:31, 4 Mar 2004 (UTC)

:Yes. [[User:Arwel Parry|Arwel]] 00:47, 4 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Hi "Y ddraig Goch.." is incorrect spelling of the motto. Its correct spelling is "Y ddraig coch ddyry cychwyn". Which means The Red Dragon Advances.

==Criticisms of outsourcing==

===Quality of service===

Because "outsourced" workers are not actually paid agents of the company, it has been argued that there is less incentive for the agent to show loyalty or work ethic in its representation of said company. It has been therefore argued that quality levels of customer service and technical support of outsourced tasks are lower than where they have remained 'in-house'.

''Y ddraig goch'' is correct: ''draig'' is feminine and so triggers the soft mutation of the initial consonant of the following adjective. --[[User:Angr|Angr]]/[[User_talk:Angr|_comhrá]] 13:07, 12 Apr 2005 (UTC)

In [[hospitals]] whose environmental services have been outsourced, the regular staff members commonly complain that the outsourced services were performed better and less expensively when they were performed in-house. Outsource companies may not be able to meet the demanding quality standards which a health care facility is likely to require. Also, managers at outsource companies tend to assume that all hospitals are alike, thus underestimating the service needs of major institutions.

Y ddraig coch ddyry cychwyn is the official motto of the Welsh Office, now Wales Office. It is therefore the official motto of the UK government in Wales.

Criticism of outsourcing from the public and media sometimes tend to concentrate on lackluster customer service and technical support being provided by either local workers who are not actually employees of the company, or by overseas workers attempting to communicate with Americans in broken or incomprehensible English. Defenders of outsourcing say if this were true, then companies would experience market forces compelling them to return service and support handling back from the outsourced company. However, service and support are often not considered by customers as part of their original purchases. Customers only experience outsourced service and support after they have spent their money since sales is generally done in-house by the original company. Dealing with lackluster outsourced service is a negative surprise after the money is already spent.

:I'm not too bothered about the Wales Office but [[User:Angr|Angr]] is right; the motto is ''Y ddraig goch ddyry cychwyn'' ("The red dragon should go forward"). Actually the ''draig goch'' in question was not a dragon but a tawny-coloured bull. The motto comes from a later 15th century [[cywydd]] by the poet [[Deio ab Ieuan Du]], from [[Cardiganshire]]. It comes near the end of a ''cywydd diolch'' (a cywydd of thanks in response to a gift asked of someone by way a ''cywydd gofyn'', or "beseeching cywydd") to Siôn ap Rhys of [[Aberpergwm]]. This bull seems to have been a formidable breeder. The poet states that it and its partner are "of the breed of dragons to bring forth calves and milk". The "red dragon" (the bull) "should get going" by mounting its partner in a grove (a convention borrowed from the love poetry of the period)! Good poem too (see A. Eleri Davies (ed.), ''Gwaith Deio ab Ieuan Du'' (Cardiff, 1992): you'll find the Welsh text on pages 36-37). I don't know how the motto found its way to the Welsh Office, but I rather imagine it was a lover of Welsh literature with a sense of humour - and mischief! - who might have suggested it. Could anyone enlighten me on that part of the story? [[User:Enaidmawr|Enaidmawr]] 00:12, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

===Work, labor, and economy===

The [[2004 U.S. presidential election]] campaign focused on outsourcing to some degree. This debate did not center on problems of declining quality of customer services but on the threat to U.S. jobs and work. [[United States Democratic Party|Democratic]] U.S. presidential candidate [[John Kerry]] blasted firms that outsource jobs abroad or that incorporate overseas in tax havens to avoid paying their fair share of U.S. taxes during his 2004 campaign, calling such firms "[[Benedict Arnold corporations]]," in reference to the infamous [[traitor]] [[Benedict Arnold]]. Criticism of outsourcing, from the perspective of U.S. citizens, by-and-large, revolves around the costs associated with transferring control of the labor process to an external entity in another country. A Zogby International poll reports that 71% of American voters believe that “outsourcing jobs overseas” hurts the economy and another 62% believe that the U.S. government should impose some legislative action against companies that transfer domestic jobs overseas, possibly in the form of increased taxes on companies that outsource. The poll of over 1,000 Americans was conducted in August 2004.<ref>Zogby International survey results online at [http://www.zogby.com/news/ReadNews.dbm?ID=870 zogby.com]</ref>

Outsourcing appears to threaten the livelihood of domestic workers and, in the United States, the [[American Dream]]. This is especially true for high-tech workers who were promised the “jobs of tomorrow”- a phrase Bill Clinton iterated in 1994 to justify his conservative position on the [[North American Free Trade Agreement]] (NAFTA). Outsourcing appears to work contrary to the claim that “free trade” will create the “jobs of tomorrow” in America when high-tech or high paying white collar jobs are transferred to or created in foreign countries. Thus, outsourcing is representative of a specific historical moment where the United States government fails to mediate business-labor relations in a way conducive to prevailing values that places the American middle class worker as a central priority. At a more general level it represents a new threat to labor, contributing to rampant worker insecurity, and reflective of the general process of globalization culminating in Western societies as a whole.

::The motto predates the Welsh Office: it was added to the badge of Wales by [[order in council]] dated [[March 11]], [[1953]]:

In the UK, it is argued a malicious implementation of the [[Higher Education Role Analysis]] (HERA) may force Higher Education administrative and support staff to prematurely retire or seek for new employment in other organizations, thus freeing of staff many departments which could then be effectively outsourced. Outsourcing departments like [[Accounts]], [[Payroll]] and [[Procurement]] is now common practice, as seen in August 2005 at the [[University of Portsmouth]].

'''London Gazette Issue 39798 published on the 13 March 1953'''

'At the Court at Buckingham Palace, the llth day of March, 1953.<br>

PRESENT,

The QUEEN's Most Excellent Majesty in Council.<br>

HER Majesty was this day graciously pleased, by<br>

and with the advice of Her Privy Council, to order<br>

that for the greater honour and distinction of Wales<br>

the Royal Badge of Wales, namely, the Red Dragon<br>

passant, be augmented as follows: "Within a<br>

circular riband argent fimbriated or bearing the<br>

motto, Y-DDRAIG-GOCH-DDYRY-CYCHWYN, in<br>

letters vert, and ensigned with a representation of<br>

the Crown proper, an escutcheon per fesse argent<br>

and vert and thereon the Red Dragon passant" as<br>

in the painting hereunto annexed is more plainly<br>

depicted.<br>

And that the Most Noble Bernard Marmaduke,<br>

Duke of. Norfolk. K.G.,. G.C.V.O., £arl Marshal<br>

and Hereditary Marshal of England, do forthwith<br>

cause the necessary directions to be given herein<br>

accordingly.'

::It had earlier ([[1906]]) been included in the grant of arms to the City of Cardiff (Letters Patent dated August 26 1906). The arms themselves were an amalgam of national emblems (dragon, leek and ostrich feathers all make an appearance). As the grantee is free to chose any motto they want (as long as it isn't the royal motto), somebody connected with Cardiff corporation in the Edwardian era must have been the insigator.

There are obvious implications that outsourcing has a direct analog to the international economic trade construct of [[dumping]], an illegal trade practice in which goods and services are sold internationally at less than fair trade value. It remains to be seen, however, if policymakers will address outsourcing as a trade practice that is both complimentary and analogous to [[Dumping (pricing policy)]]. This may, in part, be due to the perceived widespread acceptance of the use of outsourcing as a technique to increase overall business profitability.

::[[User:Lozleader|Lozleader]] 07:58, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

==Caerdydd==

Policy solutions to outsourcing are also criticized. One solution often offered is retraining of domestic workers to new jobs. However, some of these workers are already highly educated and already possess a bachelor's and master's degree. Retraining to their current level in another field may not be an option due to years of study and cost of education involved. There is also little incentive given that the jobs in their new field could also be outsourced as well. Proportions of workers trained for Science, Technology, Engineering, and Mathematics [[STEM fields|(STEM) fields]] fields in developing nations are viewed to outstrip traditional technology leaders such as the U.S. With these traditionally "safe" jobs perceived to be endangered, this raises questions regarding whether origin countries can maintain any [[comparative advantage]] given the losses in both low and high-value jobs.

Removing a piece of useful information ('Caerdydd') from the page just because it's not English was pretty damned childish. [[User:Varitek|Varitek]] 20:48, 9 Mar 2004 (UTC)

===Security===

There are also security issues concerning companies giving outside access to sensitive customer information. In April of 2005, a high-profile case involving the theft of $350,000 from four Citibank customers occurred when Indian call center workers in Pune, India, acquired the passwords to customer accounts and transferred the money to their own accounts opened under fictitious names. Citibank did not find out about the problem until the American customers noticed discrepancies with their accounts and notified the bank.<ref>http://www.infoworld.com/article/05/04/07/HNcitibankfraud_1.html</ref>

==Nation or not?==

Outright fraud is also a concern. In 2005, Intel discovered and fired 250 Indian employees after they faked their expense reports.<ref>http://www.channelregister.co.uk/2005/09/22/intel_india_sackings/</ref> The firings followed from Intel's internal Business Practice Excellence program of expenses claims. The report concluded that fraudulent practices such as "faking bills to claim your allowances like conveyance [and] drivers’ salaries" were some common malpractices in India. Intel would not put up with such fraud. NASSCOM, which is a forum of IT and ITeS companies, has attempted to address these fraud concerns in India by creating the National Skills Registry. That database contains personal and work-related information, enabling employers to verify a staff member's credentials and allowing police to track the background of workers.

The page has been edited with the comment 'Wales is not a nation'. But the OED definition of the word 'nation' includes ''A group of people having a single ethnic, tribal, or religious affiliation, but without a separate or politically independent territory.''. Therefore Wales is a nation. Besides, I'd rather talk about 'Six Nations Rugby' than 'Two nations, a combined nation and province, two countries and a principality Rugby'.

Opponents often dismiss these reports, saying that fraud and corruption exists everywhere. However, it is disingenuous to therefore insinuate that fraud and corruption is uniform from nation to nation. Corruption is in fact measured for comparison by Transparency International, through their Corruption Perceptions Index.<ref>http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0781359.html</ref> Popular outsourcing destinations such as China (3.2/10) and India (2.9/10) rank low on the index, meaning high levels of corruption.

:Wales is a nation, a country, and a principality. Th terms are not mutually exclusive. Wales is *not* a state. It is also part of a Kingdom. [[User:mynameismonkey|mynameismonkey]]

That being said, security related issues, such as falsifying expense documents, or compromising client financial information, are rare when taken in to account the number of offshore personnel and projects they are associated with.

:Although, it should become gradually obvious to a reader, it is not stated anywhere that "Wales is a nation" (or "almost universally considered to be one including by the UN and the UK government" or something if anyone objects to that statement). The word, "nation", isn't even in the article. Whereas, [[Scotland]] and [[England]] are both initially described as nations.

==Responses to criticism==

:Would anyone object if I change "is one of the four constituent parts of" to "is a nation (and one of four constituent parts) of" or "is a nation"?

====Work, labor and economy====

:--[[User:Joeblakesley|Joe Llywelyn Griffith Blakesley]] [[user_talk:joeblakesley|_talk]] [[Special:Contributions/joeblakesley|_contrib]] 23:09, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

A recent poll of economists by the ''[[Wall Street Journal]]'' found that only 16% of them saw outsourcing as having a significant impact on the overall job picture. [1] This was the conclusion of the distinguished economist [[John Kenneth Galbraith]] in his book, ''The Economics of Innocent Fraud'', published by Houghton Mifflin in 2004. One such delusion is that somehow the Chinese and Indians can not move into highly qualified sectors and out compete the U.S. and European nations there. While the Indians and Chinese are building or expanding their auto industries, economists engage in platitudes to defend outsourcing.

::Go ahead, if someone objects they will let you know [[PDQ]]. [[User:Wobble|Alun]] 07:15, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

Economist [[Thomas Sowell]] from the [[University of Chicago]] said “anything that increases economic efficiency--whether by outsourcing or a hundred other things--is likely to cost somebody's job. The automobile cost the jobs of people who took care of horses or made saddles, carriages, and horseshoes.” <ref name="sow">[http://capmag.com/article.asp?ID=3565 “Outsourcing” and “Saving Jobs”] by Thomas Sowell</ref> Walter Williams, another economist, said “we could probably think of hundreds of jobs that either don't exist or exist in far fewer numbers than in the past--jobs such as elevator operator, TV repairman and coal deliveryman. ‘[[Creative destruction]]’ is a discovery process where we find ways to produce goods and services more cheaply. That in turn makes us all richer.” <ref name="wal">[http://www.capmag.com/article.asp?ID=4113 Should we “Save Jobs”?] by Walter Williams</ref> Nationally, 70,000 computer programmers lost their jobs between 1999 and 2003, but more than 115,000 computer software engineers found higher-paying jobs during that same period. <ref name="bog">"The Outsourcing Bogeyman" (Foreign Affairs, May/June 2004)</ref> However, economists do concede that labor is not always perfectly mobile and that some workers may have difficulty getting new jobs. Some economists suggest that government training programs be provided.

:::Did it myself. Take care. [[User:Wobble|Alun]] 06:38, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

====Quality of service====

One criticism of outsourcing is that product quality suffers. But the outsourcing firm has freedom to move a firm department or division back home if its profits are suffering as a result of poor quality. In fact, many American companies like Dell have moved customer service divisions back to America as a result of poor quality [2]. The decision to outsource is like any other business investment decision in that there is risk. Critics of outsourcing often talk about outsourcing failures without mentioning instances of outsourcing success. The decision to outsource is like the decision to expand a business overseas, to incorporate computer technology, or to hire new workers. If the company does it correctly, it benefits from higher profits. Proponents of outsourcing believe that arguing that outsourcing leads to lower product quality is pointless because if it were true, consumer demand will force firms to shift back to producing the good or service in-firm rather than out-firm.

Wales is a nation under occupation. <small>—The preceding [[Wikipedia:Sign your posts on talk pages|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:195.93.21.134|195.93.21.134]] ([[User talk:195.93.21.134|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/195.93.21.134|contribs]]) {{{2|}}}.</small>

The ability to influence the quality of outsourced production depends on the relationship of power between consumers and producers. The idea that consumers have power over producers is something of a myth, however. Often shoddy goods and services must be accepted in even advanced countries like the United States because accountability systems regarding consumer or user feedback are limited.

Occupied by who the elected Welsh Assembly or the elected UK government? Both are Labour for whom the majority of Welsh people voted. Thats the problem with democracy, people dont all vote for who the nationalists want them too!

In order to increase quality or maintain a high level of quality, many offshore outsource firms also employe American management models. These models range from Taylor to Lean to Six Sigma. Each model has to be tailored to local culture and sensitivities. Differing firms have varying levels of implementation success. As the offshore outsourcing industry matures, quality may stabilize at higher levels due to competitive pressures and ready implementation of foreign quality control management techniques.

== "Stranger or slave" ==

====Security====

Advocates of outsourcing also claim that outsourcing-related fraud is insignificant, averring that such malpractices can occur in any country. For example, 40 million credit card numbers were stolen in June 2005 at Card Systems Solutions in Tucson, Arizona.<ref>{{cite news| url=http://news.zdnet.co.uk/internet/security/0,39020375,39204631,00.htm| title=Hackers steal 40 million credit card numbers| first=Joris| last=Evers| publisher=CNET News.com| date=June 20, 2005}}</ref> In December 2005, nearly 50 people were indicted in connection with a scheme that bilked at least $200,000 from Katrina relief fund at Red Cross claim center in Bakersfield, Calif., which handled calls from storm victims.<ref>{{cite news| url=http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2005-12-27-katrina-fund_x.htm?POE=NEWISVA| date=12/28/2005| title=49 accused of bilking Red Cross hurricane fund| publisher=USA Today}}</ref>

Can anyone point me to an authoritative source that shows that the Germanic root from which the name of Wales derives can mean "slave"? [[User:Marnanel|Marnanel]] 15:39, 10 Jun 2004 (UTC)

==See also==

* [[Comparative advantage]]

* [[Crowdsourcing]]

* [[Freelancing on the Internet]]

* [[Homeshoring]]

* [[Information technology consulting]]

* [[List of management topics]]

* [[Nearshoring]]

* [[Offshoring]]

* [[Offshoring IT Services]]

* [[Open Outsourcing]]

* [[Supply chain]]

* [[Vertical integration]]

* [[Brazil IT]]

* [[Business process outsourcing in the Philippines]]

:Wealas, from Saxon wealh - servant, slave: http://www.websters-dictionary-online.org/definition/english/we/wealas.html [[User:Mynameismonkey|Mynameismonkey]]

==Notes==

<!-- Dead note "NBER": This view is borne out by a recent study by Richard Freeman at the [[National Bureau of Economic Research]] in Washington. He found that in the year 2000, 17% of university bachelor degrees in the U.S. were in science and engineering compared with a world average of 27% and 52% in China. Universities in the European Union granted 40% more science and engineering doctorates than the United States, with that figure expected to reach nearly 100% by about 2010 according to Freeman's paper. -->

<references />

My understanding is that the Germanic term may ultimately come from the name of a Celtic tribe living under Roman rule, possibly the "Volcae" in what is now southern Germany or Bohemia. This led to the use of the tribe's name to mean "Romanised Celts" in general, and it is this sense which is supposed to be behind the use of the term elsewhere e.g. the "Welsh" were Romanised Celts to the Germanic Anglo-Saxon invaders, the French-speaking population of Belgium known as "Walloons" would also ultimately be descended from Romanised Celts, as would the Wallachians of modern Romania. I think Germanic tribes tended to use different terms to describe other non-Celtic "strangers". The Anglo-Saxon reference above might actually be a secondary meaning resulting from Anglo-Saxon dominance over their "Welsh" neighbours.

==References==

* Baziotopoulos A. Leonidas (2006), "Logistics Innovation and Transportation", Work-in-Progress Conference paper, EuroCHRIE Thessaloniki, 2006.

Any academic references to back this up would of course be helpful.

==Further reading==

* Peter Brudenall (editor),''Technology and Offshore Outsourcing Strategies'' (2005), ISBN 1-4039-4619-1

* Lou Dobbs ''Exporting America Why Corporate Greed is Shipping American Jobs Overseas'', 2004 ISBN 0-446-57744-8

*Christopher M. England, ''Outsourcing the American Dream'', October 2001, Writer's Club Press, ISBN 0-595-20148-2

* Georg Erber, Aida Sayed-Ahmed, '' Offshore Outsourcing - A Global Shift in the Present IT Industry '', in: Intereconomics, Volume 40, Number 2, March 2005, S. 100 - 112, [http://springerlink.com/(cjss10jclc5nzv55zy21zmqt)/app/home/contribution.asp?referrer=parent&backto=issue,5,6;journal,8,9;linkingpublicationresults,1:113472,1]

* Thomas L. Friedman, ''The World is Flat: A Brief History of the Twenty-First Century'' 2005 ISBN 0-374-29288-4

* Ron Hira and Anirl Hira, ''Outsourcing America, What's Begind our national crisis and how we can reaclaim American Jobs '' 2005 ISBN 0-8144-0868-0

* [[Mark Kobayashi-Hillary]]. 2004. (2nd ed 2005) ''Outsourcing to India.'' ISBN 3-540-23943-X.

* William Lazonick, ''Globalization of the ICT Labor Force'', in: The Oxford Handbook on ICTs, eds. Claudio Ciborra, Robin Mansell, Danny Quah, Roger Solverstone, Oxford University Press, (forthcoming)

* Catherine Mann, ''Accelerating the Globalization of America: The Role for Information Technology'', Institute for International Economics, Washington D.C., June 2006, [http://bookstore.iie.com/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=3900], ISBN paper 0-88132-390-X

*Stephen Haag, Maeve Cummings, Donald J. McCubbrey, Alain Pinsonneault, Richard Donovan "Management Information Systems For The Information Age", 2006, McGraw-Hill Ryerson, ISBN 0-07-095569-7

* National Academy of Public Administration. (2006). "Off-Shoring: An Elusive Phenomenon". Report for the U.S. Congress and the Bureau of Economic Analysis: Washington.

Wealas is a Saxon word meaning foreingers, this has then developed into Wales. In 990, while it is true that the Saxons had pushed the Welsh back, Wales was still a distinctly different country that Saxon kings had no authority over. As for the Bible entry in Genesis I fail to see how an ancient book translated from Hebrew, to Latin and then into Old English is a difintive source of information.--[[User:Rhydd Meddwl|Rhydd Meddwl]] 18:49, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

==External links==

<!--No advertising in this section please!-->

{{cleanup-spam}}

*[http://www.house.gov/inslee/docs/pdfs/gao_outsourcing_report.pdf GAO Report on Offshoring to Congress]

*[http://www.nasscom.org/articleprint.asp?art_id=2212 The Rise Of India]An article published at [[NASSCOM]] site narrates the inside view of a typical outsourcing center in India.

*[http://zmagsite.zmag.org/Apr2004/bryjak0404.html Outsourcing the American Dream] by George J. Bryjak.

*[http://www.b2bmanagedservice.com/ B2B Outsourcing.

*[http://www.computerworld.com/managementtopics/outsourcing/story/0,10801,105828,00.html?SKC=management-105828 Myth: All Outsourcing Is Offshoring] [[Computerworld]] Magazine.

*[http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/12.02/india.html The New Face of the Silicon Age] - by Daniel H. Pink ''[[Wired Magazine]]''

*[http://www.legadoassociates.com/softwareoutsource.htm Software stays put] - by Wynn Quon, ''[[National Post]]''.

*[http://www.forbes.com/2004/05/11/0511autofacescan01.html GE Ex-CEO Blasts Outsourcing Opponents]

*[http://www.eweek.com/article2/0%2C1895%2C1931483%2C00.asp?kc=ewnws022706dtx1k0000599 India 2.0 Aims to Sustain Its Global IT Influence] by [[Stan Gibson]] for [[eWeek]], explains how Indian [[IT]] industries are planing for new ways to dominate the global [[IT]] market.

== "Cymru fo am byth" ==

[[Category:Outsourcing| ]]

...means "Wales for ever", doesn't it? Some anon has just changed the translation to "Wales never yields". Can someone with more Welsh than I have comment? [[User:Marnanel|Marnanel]] 16:38, 15 Aug 2004 (UTC)

[[be:Аўтсорсынґ]]

[[bg:Аутсорсинг]]

:The form "Cymru fo am byth" is only used as part of the lyrics of ''[[Men of Harlech]]'' as far as I can tell [http://www.google.com/search?num=20&hl=cy&ie=UTF-8&safe=active&q=%22cymru+fo+am+byth%22&btnG=Chwiliwch (Google search).] The more popular version is "Cymru am byth", but this is still far from being a national motto. It is, however, probably the closest thing we have to one. And it means "Wales for ever", yes. [[User:Gareth Wyn|Gareth]] 21:34, 25 Aug 2004 (UTC)

[[cs:Outsourcing]]

[[da:Outsourcing]]

== Cities ==

[[de:Outsourcing]]

[[es:Subcontratación]]

An anon has added Bangor and St David's to the list of subdivisions of Wales under "cities". While it's true that they are cities, they're administered by county councils and aren't unitary authorities in the same way that Cardiff or Swansea are. I'm not sure how properly to resolve the ambiguity here; perhaps the whole section needs rewriting. [[User:Marnanel|Marnanel]] 18:55, 16 Aug 2004 (UTC)

[[eo:Outsourcing]]

[[fa:برون‌سپاری]]

== Home ==

[[fr:Impartition]]

[[it:Outsourcing]]

My great-grandfather immigrated to America around the turn of the century; so Cymru is still home to me, but I've never seen my homeland. I've tried to find research sites, but all I've gotten is sites for the damned tourists. Can anyone give me a hint as to good places to look for family in Cymru and information on it as a whole? I'd be much obliged.

[[he:מיקור חוץ]]

[[nl:Outsourcing]]

== incorrect ==

[[ja:アウトソーシング]]

[[pl:Outsourcing]]

The nation has had no real independence since 1282, when it was taken by the English King.

[[pt:Outsourcing]]

[[ru:Аутсорсинг]]

The above statement is incorrect in the sense that Wales has just as much independence as any other nation in great britain.All power is central at westminster,with representatives from both England,Scotland,Northern Ireland and Wales.

[[sk:Outsourcing]]

[[fi:Ulkoistaminen]]

:Which doesn't really sound like real independence to me.

[[sv:Outsourcing]]

[[vi:Outsourcing]]

both statments are incorrect

[[tr:Dış kaynak kullanımı]]

[[uk:Аутсорсинг]]

The welsh people had a short spell of independence during the 1400's thanks to the King of free Wales, Owain Glyndwr currently Wales is going through the devolution process which in lamens terms means that we can make our own decisions but the english is still in overall control.

:The UK parliament is in control, which consists of MPs representing England and Wales (and the rest!). There are more English MPs because it is a bigger country, but most of the people in power in the cabinet actually seem to be scottish! [[User:Jameskeates|Jameskeates]] 11:43, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

Wales is unable to become an independent country because we no longer have anything worth trading.

The above is not true, Cymru has plenty of commodities worth trading, these include farming products, timber, fishing and mining, Cymru also has a tremendous amount of unexplored potential for tourism. So if Cymru became independent once more then we would be able to cope fine and our economy would actually improve than it is now.--[[User:Rhydd Meddwl|Rhydd Meddwl]] 19:36, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

Can people stop giving their opinions as facts. It is fine to say 'I think Wales should be independent' but you cannot say 'Wales should be independent' as that implies you somehow know things that noone else does.

== "Character of the Welshman"? ==

a native pure-blood welshman is a coch draig with unchallanged intelligance and language skills

Would these language skills reach to the correct spelling of "Intelligence" perhaps?

:And indeed better punctuation and better Welsh (draig goch)... [[User:Garik|garik]] 14:30, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

Actually it's ddraig goch ;)

:No it's not! Well, it is if there's a definite article (so y ddraig goch), but the radical form (meaning '(a) red dragon') is ''draig goch'', as in 'Draig goch yw pob Cymro y mae ei waed yn bur':) [[User:Garik|garik]] 11:19, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

== Age breakdown ==

Why are the age ranges listed so skewed?

Its no surprise, and not really informative, that the age ranges spanning 15 years have more people in that range than the ranges that span only 2 years. I'm not quite sure what this is supposed to show. Whatever it is intended for, I'm sure it could be done better by having a more balanced distribution of ranges, perhaps targetting a 10 year span for each group.

[[User:Tritium6|Tritium6]] 20:40, 28 Dec 2004 (UTC)

:Those are the age ranges used by the 2001 Census site. -- [[User:Arwel Parry|Arwel]] 21:05, 30 Dec 2004 (UTC)

One rabbit for you to cahse at the battle of Boworth field Henry tudor a welshman had abanner for hos army it was the red dragon ( cadwaladr banner) which is now that of wales. why is this not in your history . This factb is recorded in many history books

Yes the history should make it clearer that the Welsh Twdur/Tudor family took over the English throne by force of arms and from that date on the monarchy was English and Welsh in nature as shown by the use of the Welsh Dragon on the Royal Coat of Arms. It was the Scottish Stuarts who removed the Welsh Dragon and replaced it with a Scottish unicorn. Sometimes history reads like it was all done to Wales when in reality Welsh people, in proportion to their small population size, were just as important in the history of the UK as the other three nations.

== Images of Wales ==

I've changed the image gallery to make use of Wikipedia's 'gallery' template, which seems to be less intrusive for the overall feel of the page. I've also added some photos of important Welsh institutions. If you don't like the changes, feel free to revert back to the old style, I'm not entirely convinced of the change myself! [[User:Twrist|Twrist]] 23:27, 18 May 2005 (UTC)

== Province?? ==

Wales is a country and nation under english occupation, the same being with scotland and n ireland.

I can rest assure everyone here that Wales is not a province. Wales is a country, the first country to unite with England as a matter of fact to form the United Kingdom. Maybe before 1955 Wales was a province of England, but not anymore. The words "Provincial Capital" have been removed.

[[User:Draig goch20|Draig goch20]] 13:01, Jun 8, 2005 (UTC)

<br><br>

Wales is not a country. It is considered by many to be one but factually is not. It is a sovereign state and part of a country.[[User:Palx|<font color="#002266">'''Pal'''<font color="#FF8800">'''''X''''']] 14:19, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

<br>

: Actually, that's not true. Wales is not a country (the only countries in the British Isles are the United Kingdom and the Republic of Ireland), and hasn't been a country for over 700 years, for that matter. It's a ''nation'', and legally a principality, but it isn't a country.

: I think we should revert your removal.

: [[User:Jdforrester|James F.]] [[User_talk:Jdforrester|(talk)]] 13:43, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC)

::You're right, but 'capital' by itself is sufficiently NPoV. After all we can have 'capitals' of counties, &c. Of course this doesn't get into the debate as to whether we need regional capitals or not, and why it should be Cardiff, but that's another debate! :) [[User:Owain|Owain]] 15:23, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Thats like saying that Scotland isn't a country? or England for that matter? and those countries do consider themselves "Countries". What makes it different for Wales, does it make it easier for others to walk all over us?

[[User:Draig goch20|Draig goch20]] 18:38, Jun 21, 2005 (UTC)

::Well they aren't are they? The UK is the country, which consists of multiple parts. Why do people get all worked up about it anyway? Like you said it makes no real difference, it's all about perception. I'm sure some people in Catalonia or the Basque region consider those places to be separate ''de facto'' countries, but they are not ''de jure''. [[User:Owain|Owain]] 18:46, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)

:::The situation is different, though, because, so far as I am aware, there is no particular official term to refer to the constituent parts of the UK. [[Catalonia]] is an autonomous community (and used to be, I think, a region). But there is no proper term for what England is, or what Scotland is. I'd certainly like to see some evidence that "nation" is used in any more official sense than "country." Certainly the adjective "national" is used to refer to things pertaining to the whole UK, so the UK, in addition to being a state, would appear to be a nation ''and'' a country, as well. The basic fact is, there is no good term for describing any of these places. [[User:John Kenney|john]] [[User_talk:John Kenney|k]] 18:53, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I went into google and it actually states something different. "the territory occupied by a '''nation'''; "he returned to the land of his birth"; "he visited several European countries" type in "define: Country". I am not arguing, I am clearing things up, we have alway's considered ourselves a "Country" and so do Welsh politicians. The UK is a Union of Countries, one a former province (Wales) and two other countries, Scotland and England.

[[User:Draig goch20|Draig goch20]] 18:53, Jun 21, 2005 (UTC)

::Ah yes, the old Google = truth test. You may well 'consider' Wales to be a country, and that is your prerogative, but the UK is not a union of countries, it is one country. Wales has never really existed as a single unified entity, even up to the Laws in Wales Act 1543, there was 'the principality' and the Marches. Prior to the Norman invasion of Britain it was a number of separate kingdoms, as was England. The concept of Wales existing as a separate entity that joined a 'Union of countries' a la the EU is pure fiction. [[User:Owain|Owain]] 19:05, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Wales is not a country. It's a common misconception, the same as believing England &c. are countries. It's simply not true. Wales is a region within the country known as the UK. As evidence, I offer the UN's list of member states:

http://www.un.org/Overview/unmember.html

https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/uk.html

Both of these sources include the UK as a country and neither of these sources include Wales as a country.

Now unless those claiming that Wales is a country can offer some evidence beyond "Google says" and "everybody knows", this article should be fixed so that it does not refer to Wales as a country.

Jim 06:38, 18 Sep 2005 (UTC)

:Hi, Jim. Nobody disagrees with you that Wales, like the other parts of the UK, isn't a sovereign state. The problem is simply with the semantics of the word "country." We're not trying to imply that Wales is an independent country; but many people use the word "country" in another sense which does not require full legal independence. [[User: Doops|Doops]] | [[User_talk:Doops | talk]] 06:06, 18 September 2005 (UTC)

Precisely. This is a semantic issue and 'country' is just a rather vague term. Compare the word 'Britain'. It has no official status. Northern Ireland is a part of the United Kingdom, but not Great Britain; whether or not it's part of 'Britain' depends what you mean by the word - and there's no right or wrong about it. In the same way, Wales is a nation and a principality, but not a sovereign nation (or state). There's no right or wrong about calling it a country, however, because the word 'country' is not defined precisely enough. If England, Scotland, (or indeed the Basque Country) are countries, then so is Wales. If they're not, then Wales isn't either. But it's not a matter of right or wrong. Gareth 19:12 26 April 2006

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WALES IS A COUNRTY<br />

ENGLAND IS A COUNTRY<br />

SCOTLAND IS A COUNTRY<br />

NORTHERN IRELAND IS THE ONLY PROVINCE IN THE UK<br />

The great Cymraeg rebellion overthrough the english oppressors and reclaimed our title as a country! people seem to be missing the fact that when asked in the UK what your ethnic origin is you can selet welsh, scottish, english and irish. Why call the United Kingdom united if its all one country? shouldn't it just be "kingdom"? North and south Wales are provinces of Wales, the welsh language is very different in the north of wales.

I agree Cymru is not a currently an indepedent country but then neither is Scotland or England, they are all ruled from a Westminister government that has elected represantatives from all of the countries of the UK. The UK is not a country but a Union of Countries. The Commonwealth Games are happening now and unless I am greatly, greatly mistaken Scotland, England and Wales are all taking part as diferent countries.--[[User:Rhydd Meddwl|Rhydd Meddwl]] 19:55, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

There seems to be a nerve been touched here, I am shocked that these people aren't calling England a country. The three nations of the United Kingdom, as the Prime Minsters site suggests are "Three countries in one". There would be no need for devolution if Wales and Scotland were not countries, just not sovereign countries. I will search for where I found this.

[[User:Draig goch20|Draig goch20]] 19:18, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

:There seem to be a lot of poorly informed people out there. Please learn the difference between a [[State]], a [[Country]] and a [[Nation]] before commenting on them. If you are really on the ball you might like to have a go at [[Ethnic group]] as well. In summary:<br>

*'''State''': ''A state is a set of institutions that possess the authority to make the rules that govern a society, having internal and external sovereignty over a definite territory. Following Max Weber's influential definition, a state has a 'monopoly on legitimate violence'. Hence the state includes such institutions as the armed forces, civil service or state bureaucracy, courts, and police.''

*'''Nation''': ''One of the most influential doctrines in history is that all humans are divided into groups called nations. It is an ethical and philosophical doctrine in itself, and is the starting point for the ideology of nationalism. The nationals are the members of the "nation" and are distinguished by a common identity, and almost always by a common origin, in the sense of ancestry, parentage or descent.''

*'''Country''': ''In political geography and international politics a country is a geographical territory. It is used casually in the sense of both the concept of nation (a cultural entity; see below) and state (a political entity). Some definitions tend to place it as meaning only state, though general use is wider than this.''<br>

:So do we get it? A state is a legal entity recognised as such internationally, a nation is a group of people who share a common identity and a country is a geographical region, either that of a state or that of a nation. So Wales is a nation and is also a country, it is not a State, but if it ever got independence it would be a [[nation-state]], something the United Kingdom is not.

[[User:Wobble|Alun]] 05:49, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

Since the Royal Assent of the Government of Wales Act 2006 Wales now has a legal personality seperate to that of the UK e.g. Her Majesty in Right of Wales. This has some repercussions on this debate. From now on there will be truely Welsh laws signed by the Queen specifically as head of state of Wales rather than the UK. The advice to sign them will be given by Welsh Ministers not UK ministers although the UK government will be able to quosh those laws until a referendum of the Welsh people says otherwise. But from now on Wales is a part of the UK because it chooses to, it has the legal identity now to leave if a referendum said so. {{unsigned|86.132.102.96}}

:This makes no difference. In the unlikely event of an independence referendum, a 'yes' result would result in a separate legal entity in any case. [[User:Owain|Owain]] <small>([[User_talk:Owain|talk]])</small> 18:36, 9 September 2006 (UTC)