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'''''When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser.'''''
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# [[User talk:Skookum1/Archive 1|October 28, 2005 - October 31, 2006]]
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- '''Socrates''' (attrib.)
==Skookum Illahee==
It's indeed a nice name for [[Cascadia]]. Are you aware of any source we could cite to put it in the article? &mdash; [[User:SebastianHelm|Sebastian]] [[User_talk:SebastianHelm|(talk)]] 20:54, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
:No one's ever used it; I coined it during my involvement with the Chinook Jargon listserve; I'm one of the few non-academic, non-Native Americans/First Nations, who's bothered to undertake to learn the Jargon, and also who'll try to use it to coin new applications, such as the immortal "maika house naika house?" ("your place or mine?"). Skookum Illahee was one of those, partly because there's been an old grind around BC about getting rid of its "colonial" name - it's that "British" word they don't like, and while we're at it "Columbia" is colonialistic too, although I'm fine with the combination form myself; a name is just a name. Partly, also, though, because "we" (in the listserve/Jargon community) needed a shorthand for the geographic range/turf of the Jargon, instead of BC-OR-WA-ID-MT-AB-YT-AK and sometimes NV, CA, UT and WY. Oh, and as it turns out there are even CJ placenames in Quebec and New Hampshire, no less (see [[List of Chinook Jargon placenames]]), but not to the degree you find in the "core ecumene", the Skookum Illahee proper (roughly coincident with that Cascadia place) and the combination happens to be a handy one. While skookum remains pretty common in t he region, nobody uses illahee anymore (in English), not to mean a country anyway - it generally means a piece of land or a pasture; so it's a bit awkward that way: Skookumland doesn't have the same ring to it, although I'd also liked "The Skookum Country", which as with Skookum Illahee really needs the definite article to sound right. The sense is the same whether it's illahee/country; either the country that ''is'' skookum (in whatever shade of meaning chosen), or the country ''of'' skookum, i.e. where you hear the word (other than those placenames in Quebec, NH and elsewhere). But no, it's not a citable usage, not until I publish a book anyway; there might be a listserve cite you could dig out from the CHINOOK archives on linguistlist.org, though[[User:Skookum1|Skookum1]] 00:52, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
 
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==Pacific Northwest and Cascadia==
I'm writing to you as one of the people who contributed to [[Pacific Northwest|this article]]. I hope I could contribute to [[Talk:Pacific_Northwest#Conclusion_and_proposed_agreement|defusing the emotional debate]] and I would appreciate if you could participate in the new effort of [[Talk:Pacific_Northwest#Finding_a_good_name_for_this_article|finding a good name for the article]]. &mdash; [[User:SebastianHelm|Sebastian]] [[User_talk:SebastianHelm|(talk)]] 22:54, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
 
==Liberty Bell to Liberty bell==
: Hello again! Could you please take a look at the section [[Talk:Pacific Northwest#Which definitions do we have for the map?|Which definitions do we have for the map?]] I agree with you that defining the area by political boundaries does not do it justice, but without a clearly sourced map, many people will automatically refer to state and province borders to make their point. &mdash; [[User:SebastianHelm|Sebastian]] [[User_talk:SebastianHelm|(talk)]] 20:56, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
Good one (but you may have given some editors an idea...). Anyway, speaking of the Bell, want to see something cool? Awhile ago I added a template or three to the page 'United States Declaration of Independence' and, completely by accident, when I looked at the template stack I thought 'Darn if that doesn't look like the shape of the Liberty Bell'. Check it out. [[user:Randy Kryn|Randy Kryn]] 13:27 12 February, 2015 (UTC)
 
== Hwlitsum ==
: After I split up the article I thought it would be a good idea to split up the talk page, as well. The only contribution that was hard to split up was your contribution about the origin of the name. I didn't wan't to split it up in the middle of a paragraph which was relevant for both topics. Maybe you can find a better splitting point or, if not, just duplicate the paragraph. &mdash; [[User:SebastianHelm|Sebastian]] [[User_talk:SebastianHelm|(talk)]] 05:42, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
 
For a complete list of task forces, see [[Template:MILHIST]].
: In the article [[Wealth]], there is a sentence: "In ecologically rich areas such as those inhabited by the [[Haida]] in the [[Pacific Northwest|Cascadia]] [[Pacific East Rim]] [[ecoregion]], traditions like [[potlatch]] kept wealth relatively evenly distributed, ...". When I just disamb'ed Cascadia it occurred to me that "Pacific East Rim" seems quite redundant there. Maybe both this and "ecoregion" could be deleted, or should we create a separate article for it? &mdash; [[User:SebastianHelm|Sebastian]] [[User_talk:SebastianHelm|(talk)]] 06:00, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
 
== Nomination of [[:Lisa Ellen Niver]] for deletion ==
== [[Pacific Northwest]] ==
<div class="floatleft" style="margin-bottom:0">[[File:Ambox warning orange.svg|48px|alt=|link=]]</div>A discussion is taking place as to whether the article '''[[:Lisa Ellen Niver]]''' is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to [[Wikipedia:List of policies and guidelines|Wikipedia's policies and guidelines]] or whether it should be [[Wikipedia:Deletion policy|deleted]].
 
The article will be discussed at [[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Lisa Ellen Niver ]] until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.
Yah, i'd like to reiterate that I am sorry if I did take things too personally. I get your drift when you say you are ''a really nice guy, just with a taste for salty language and colourful metaphors'' . . In hindsight, I think its mostly my fault for interpreting you wrongly. (Although, call me pretentious, but I do take it personally when people say I was schooled wrong!) I'll put that on the Pac NW talk page at some point. In the meantime, I will read ''Beyond the Tragic Vision'', or at least the relevant parts of it - I do have enough time and have been having trouble finding at least concise sources, so any suggestions are great. Thanks. --[[User:Gregorof|<font color="#7BA05B">GREGorof</font>]] → <sup>[[User talk:Gregorof|<font color="blue">talk</font>]]</sup> 05:24, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
 
Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article.<!-- Template:afd-notice --> '''[[User:DGG| DGG]]''' ([[User talk:DGG| talk ]]) 17:48, 15 April 2015 (UTC)
==WikiProject Vancouver==
== Nomination of [[:George Kenneth Rajna]] for deletion ==
This is an important message being sent out too all participants. We are currently recalling our list of participants. Any one who is inactive in the project will be moved to the "inactive" list respectively. See Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Vancouver#ROLL_CALL_-_All_Read|the project talk page for more details]] -- [[User:Selmo|<font color="red"><b>Selmo</b></font>]] <sup><i>([[User_talk:Selmo|talk]])</i></sup> 20:45, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
<div class="floatleft" style="margin-bottom:0">[[File:Ambox warning orange.svg|48px|alt=|link=]]</div>A discussion is taking place as to whether the article '''[[:George Kenneth Rajna]]''' is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to [[Wikipedia:List of policies and guidelines|Wikipedia's policies and guidelines]] or whether it should be [[Wikipedia:Deletion policy|deleted]].
 
The article will be discussed at [[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/George Kenneth Rajna ]] until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.
== Chinook Jargon ==
 
Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article.<!-- Template:afd-notice --> '''[[User:DGG| DGG]]''' ([[User talk:DGG| talk ]]) 17:50, 15 April 2015 (UTC)
thanks for this translation! Can I write sth to you in Polish Wikipedia? (for example an article about your city) Best regards, [[:pl:User:Szoltys|Szoltys]]
 
==Category:Historical Chinatowns in British Columbia==
Hi Szoltys. Had a few days think about this; take your pick between: [[Lillooet, British Columbia]], [[Shalalth, British Columbia]] and my namesake article, [[Skookum]]; the two town articles may be revised in future and are somewhat incomplete at the moment, though. Dękuje. (No, I don't speak Polish, but I did study some once upon a time). [[Skookum]] may be the best one to translate, as it's not likely to change all that much, and maybe is the most interesting.[[User:Skookum1|Skookum1]] 17:58, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
 
'''[[:Category:Historical Chinatowns in British Columbia]]''', which you created, has been nominated for deletion. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at '''[[Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2015 April 29#Category:Historical Chinatowns in British Columbia|the category's entry]]''' on the [[Wikipedia:Categories for discussion|Categories for discussion]] page.<!-- Template:Cfd-notify--> Thank you. [[User:RevelationDirect|RevelationDirect]] ([[User talk:RevelationDirect|talk]]) 03:02, 29 April 2015 (UTC)
==Archive==
'This page is 267 kilobytes long.' This exceeds Wikipedia page standards by 237 kilbytes. You should consider archiving your discussion page. If you do not know how to, leave me a message and I will be happy to do it for you. [[User:Mkdw|<span style="font-size: 13px arial; color: #3366FF;">Mkdw</span>]][[User talk:Mkdw|<sup>''talk''</sup>]] 01:24, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
:Your page has been archived. Also that 'practical joke' on the top of my page was created by me. Just a little fun at the top of my page for my visitors. [[User:Mkdw|<span style="font-size: 13px arial; color: #3366FF;">Mkdw</span>]][[User talk:Mkdw|<sup>''talk''</sup>]] 23:22, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
 
== Invitation to join Wikiproject ==
== Chinese immigration ==
 
{{tmbox
::The reason the Chinese overturned streambeds was to get at the deep gravel and "black sand" found down against bedrock; white miners were rarely so thorough and marvelled at the Chinese skills in the goldfield - contrary to the CCNC's site, which claims that Chinese were left with what the leavings only after whites had taken the pickings; in reality while Chinese did work sites left over by whites, they often made them more profitable because of their superior mining techniques; and in the case of the streambeds led the way (...) people were amused to see the Indians chasing the Chinese off the streambeds. [[User:Skookum1|Skookum1]]
|image = [[Image:Ageing and culture.jpg|100px]]
I'm happy to admit that you know more about this topic than me, but you need to include information like this if you want to include statements like the one you did. While the the implications of what you say are different than that of the CCNC, your statement doesn't actually contradict the one you say they make. Write the above on the page (hopefully with citations and minus the political rhetoric about the CCNC of course) and I won't remove it.[[User:Themightyquill|TheMightyQuill]]
|text = Hello {{PAGENAME}}! Thank you for your contributions to articles related to ageing. I'd like to invite you to become a part of the ageing and culture WikiProject, a WikiProject aimed at improving the quality of articles dealing with ageing on Wikipedia.
:The Chinese worked their ''own'' original sites ''and'' the leavings of other miners; yes, they did rework non-Chinese diggings, but not cause they ''had to'' but because they could; the CCNC site paints it completely different, as more evidence of white discrimination yadayada; it was true in California, but they treat it (as did this page originally) as if it applied in BC as well. ''It did not''. Anyway, this streambed thing I can cite as soon as I find, amid the piles of paper and books scattered around my apartment, the Harris and Edwards books. [[User:Skookum1|Skookum1]]
If you would like to participate, please visit the [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Ageing and culture|WikiProject Ageing and culture page]] for more information. Feel free to sign your name under "Members". Thanks! {{{1|<includeonly>~~</includeonly>~~<noinclude><nowiki>~~</nowiki></noinclude>}}}
}}
[[User:MaudeG3|MaudeG3]] ([[User talk:MaudeG3|talk]]) 15:12, 4 May 2015 (UTC)
 
:Hahahaha sorry Maude, I'm an older editor who just went through a block perpetrated by younger editors who condemned me for, basically, being a crotchety old f**k and standing up to childish nonsense from a teenager who wanted exclusive control over a subject area he really knows nothing abuot but has a very decided POV agenda for....; I'm leaving Wikipedia once and for all; done done done; see section below. Wikipedia is being run by people who got their adminships when they were in their early teens who have no real knowledge of teh world, that's my summatino of the problem in a nutshell. I've got only so many years left, tired of arguing with the arrogantly ill-informed and those with power they don't deserve and very little common sense and even less real manners. But man, a whole ''lot'' of attitude.[[User:Skookum1|Skookum1]] ([[User talk:Skookum1#top|talk]]) 02:44, 17 June 2015 (UTC)
::ALL miners in the Canyon engaged in sluicing benchland and other till well above waterline, but the Chinese were not exempt from this violation of native food resources and burial grounds; the syntax of my statement put it in a subphrase, "including the Chinese" when perhaps the sentence should start with "The Chinese, along with miners from other backgrounds" etc.[[User:Skookum1|Skookum1]]
 
== Notice to The Interior and Moonriddengirl re illicit removal of POV/ESSAY/SYNTH tags ==
:::But the page also included "Chinese miners had to live in tents" or something to that effect in the railway section; as if every other kind of pioneer didn't and as if that had to do with immigration. This page includes all kinds of stuff which don't have to do with immigration ''per se'', the same way that the old HongCouver page contained all kinds of things that didn't belong on it, such as it was. I replaced what had been here before about how Chinese had supposedly been chased off gold workings with this more accurate account; they were driven off ''only'' at Tulameen and ''nowhere'' else, but this is enough for the CCNC and a coterie of academics to treat that one instance like it was a standard, which it was anything ''but''. There were many conflicts between First Nations and Chinese, as individuals and sometimes in parties (as with the streambed quarrels), often escalating to violence and no small amount of court cases relating to same; and this because the Chinese stayed on in the goldfields longer, and in the Lillooet area (the "Upper Canyon" or "Upper Fraser" in gold rush-era parlance) the bulk of hydraulic mining was Chinese-owned and worked (i.e. always on food-bearing lands because of the nature of the local geography/biome and the density of native populations) . All this is a reminder that Chinese, like all other colonist/exploiters, were as much a disturbance to First Nations life and resources ''as anybody else''. This should be reflected on this page, just as whites are slagged for nearly everything under the sun concerning the general history of the province, which is a complete double standard. If it's not relevant to ''immigration'', fine, it can be completely removed or put somewhere else; but I'll be watching like a hawk for finger-pointing about bad stuff that whites are chastised for having done when it's clear that the ''Chinese'', like everyone else, should share in the blame. The original content here glossed over the gold rushes and made them seem like inconsequential relative to the railway, and also as if they were another example of white high-handedness; quite the contrary, and if it weren't for the successes of gold rush Chinese, the railway Chinese would never have been brought in, nor would they have come. I may be able to get a "rate" of land displacement up and down the canyon, as a friend of mine just completed an exhaustive history/geography of ''all'' placer workings from Boston Bar to Big Bar or so, including who owned them; this is a good indicator of the degree of (a) Chinese economic success relative to others and (b) the primacy of Chinese in the displacement of lands for hydraulic workings (back in mid-September I stayed on a place at 12 Mile south of Lillooet that had been a Chinese mine-working; either that or a [[quiggly]] town, but the "holes" don't look right for the latter; but given its ___location it's quite probable that, prior to the Chinese ditching and pits on the site, it ''had been'' a First Nations site (because of its strategic ___location and water supply ''it must have been''); interesting problem that the landowner will only resolve (i.e. get the Lillooet Tribal Council) off his back if he can prove it was a Chinese hydraulic working; and yeah, the records exist...or should.[[User:Skookum1|Skookum1]] 07:31, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
 
My block is over; who cares? I don't. The only thing that's prevented me from responding with one final condemnation of the illicitness of this peremptory block, which gave ''carte blance'' to a highly POV and persistently AGF editor, is personal circumstances including six weeks ago the smashing of my laptop screen; other than that I was going to condemn, item by item, violations of policy/guideline committed by yourselves and comebacks to some of the inane comments in the ANI. D
That's silly. It doesn't belong on this page any more than it would belong on page like "Irish Immigration to Canada" as they likely participated in the gold rush too. This certainly belongs in an article on the gold rush, but since it has nothing specific to do with the Chinese (and there's no reason to think they would act any differently than other miners) it doesn't belong on this page, and you know it.[[User:Themightyquill|TheMightyQuill]]
::Yet the pretense in p.c. historiography, and in the Chinese community's own political bumpf, is that they ''did'' act differently than other miners; I'm just trying to put it that they ''didn't'' (other than being more "efficient" - i.e. destructive - in their displacement of land in the course of their workings).....[[User:Skookum1|Skookum1]]
 
But here's what it is: why would I spend more time responding to people who refused to read anything I said while pandering to whining and pleading by WTM who even said, "is there a way to block him that won't be subject to consensus at ANI" - where his ally-in-enmity LegacyPac failed to get consensus. So yes, there was; harrassing me and demanding I stop 'interfering with' his sole authorship of his soapboxing about BC history on purely biased lines; I cringe at seeing some of his additions since my departure; but hell, MRG, you plunged in from the start saying you didn't want to have to research the previous months, and the lot of you - The Interior, yourself, Viriditas , Anna - refused to read anything I had to say, whether here or on the article talkpage. You have supported not just a POV fork but a blatantly OWN one, with loads of ESSAY/TRIVIA ''bunk'' and washed your hands of it and walked away.
:Most Irish in the goldfields were of two kinds: American Irish from California and parts east, generally Catholic; and Anglo-Irish officials, particularly military (e.g. [[Chartres Brew]], the first Chief Constable of the new colony). Why there ''isn't'' an article on [[Irish immigration to Canada]] is a good question; perhaps it's addressed on [[Irish Canadian]] but if that's the case, why aren't the Chinese immigration to Canada issues addressed on [[Chinese Canadian]]? There were, by the way, as many Irish died as Chinese in the building of the CPR, as they were the grunt labour east of the Rockies (the worst stretch to build, contrary to the text which says the Chinese were "given the worst stretch" to build, was actually the long and dire nastiness of the Canadian Shield from Kenora to southern Ontario; Irish and other British labour were not used in BC because they were too expensive to ship out west via the US or Panama or Cape Horn, and Chinese were not used east of BC because they were too expensive to ship east via the same routes; but the article paints it like the Chinese were ''deliberately'' given the worst work, when in fact it was the result of happenstance and practical logistics. And the same tight-fisted budgeting which ruled out British immigration for railway labour in favour of bargain-basement Chinese coolies, obligingly provided by the Chinese entrepreneurs who had struck it rich on the Fraser and in the Cariboo and elsewhere, or in Victoria in the course of supplying the rush (most gold rush money, anywhere, is made by people providing supplies and services, not by actual miners).[[User:Skookum1|Skookum1]] 07:31, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
 
''NPOV is not negotiable'', Moonriddengirl; your comment about nobody else commenting about POV being there is no consensus is completely out of line; read NPOV again and its POV fork again; using personal complaints as a way to denounce and override complaints of POV is ''against policy''. But my own personal complaints ''about him'' were ignored, while his about me were pandered to and encouraged/mollycoddled.
::[[Cole Harris]] in his ''The Resetttlement of British Columbia'', in the chapters on the gold rush and the benighted Nlaka'pamux of the region (I used "benighted" here because he manages to omit, or is unaware, of their genocidal wars on the Stl'atl'imx, Lil'wat and Stuwix, while speaking of a white genocide against the Nlaka'pamux in the Fraser Canyon War) tries to pin this on whites alone, but as in my other edit just now "other" rather than "white" is the proper terminology here because it wasn't just a white/Chinese racial dichotomy, as there were other "races" in the Fraser Canyon gold rush; but he goes on to describe Chinese hydraulic mining and farming on what obviously beforehand had been native land (a typical blinkers-on blame-game played by modern BC historiographies)
Cole Harris specifically says it was whites alone, or simply uses "whites" as the "other" to indigenous people? If it's the former, I'd be more inclined to believe your complaints about white-bashing. If it's the latter, he's just oversimplifying things into a white/native racial dichotomy, which although incorrect, is hardly the same thing. It's no more wrong than grouping all indigenous people together as one race, is it? Or all Chinese, which [[List of ethnic groups in China|I recently discovered]] is equally incorrect.[[User:Themightyquill|TheMightyQuill]]
:The Chinese claim that the red-headed, spiral-tattooed fair-skinned mummmies of the Tarim Basin are Chinese, and that the Tibetans are Chinese, and the Uighurs are Chinese, and that the Manchurians and countless others are Chinese. This is like the multiple meanings nowadays for "Canadian"; all Chinese present in the colony were Cantonese, although maybe there was a Yao or Hmong in there somewhere, who knows. And yeah, Harris like other post-modern politically-correct academics, pins everything on whites alone (or to use the pastiche neologism, "Euro-Americans", which obscures the very real differences between various kinds of Brit, Canadian and Americans of European ''and'' British origin; the other p.c. term that's also inappropriate re early BC is "European" because of its multiple meanings, i.e. it can't just be used as a replacement for the overtly racial term "white", even though that's what is clearly meant), in the same way that he turns a blind eye to the Nlaka'pamux-Shuswap invasion and enslavement of the Lillooets, and the extermination of the Stuwix (the Nicola Athapaskans); the Chinese, and the First Nations, in Cole Harris' world, can do no wrong.[[User:Skookum1|Skookum1]] 07:31, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
 
The Interior's b.s. about me writing 20,000 character opuses was a laugh; at the top of my talkpage at the same t ime was a link to the NOR board discussion which, if you go find it in the archive, was called a complete was of time by the ''sane'' editor who closed it. Do a word count on the 'new' CCinGV article - it's twice that length. Have even ''one'' of you read its content and fact-checkecd it, or noted my complaints about the content he had cultivated on the CCinBC article about how much repetition there was, about obvious SYNTH, about blatant POV, about working to exclude sources while cherrypicking others? No, obviously not, if you don't have the time to research what you're pronouncing judgement on ''you shouldn't be pronouncing judgement'' on it, ''never mind taking sides as you have done''.
You can reply here, I'll watch your page.- [[User:Themightyquill|TheMightyQuill]] 05:03, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
 
So we have, other than the token British Columbian who levelled the block against me, an American-Texan-Chinese now OWNing articls about BC after successfully blocking the sole active British Columbian who works (worked) in historical areas and listed point after point after point about what was wrong ''all of which was ignored'' and not just ignored, but condemned. The Anglo-American bias issue of [[WP:Systemic bias]] is very much in evidence here, and also in WTM's behaviour and content, where the Sino-globalist bias is also very much not just in evidence ''but his whole agenda''.
As a history major specializing in Chinese-immigration to Canada (and as the person who began this article), I respectfully disagree with your view that Chinese-Canadians portray their history as "revisionist" and only view itself as the victims. There was very severe discrimination against ethnic Chinese in Canada before multiculturalism, and I simply stated those discriminations when I began the article. I'd like to point out the following:
 
That you, MRG, claimed my saying he was "ill-informed" was an NPA while never considering the AGF against me, and his covert NPAs implicit throughout that AGF ''from day one'' - that you refused to take the time to read - is incredibly hypocritical and alos ironic - because you, too, are ill-informed and willfully so. but that you would call ''that'' an NPA while allowing "paranoid delusional" and various other very nasty and unfair ''direct NPAs'' to stand, including indulging in personal attacks yourself, is so much part of wiki-culture now that it's pointless to even explain it to you; you can never admit you're wrong and what you claim are guideline-driven actions on your part are actually ''policy violations''.
* The Chinese are not the only ethnic group to portray their history from a victim POV (e.g.: Jewish-Canadians, Ukrainian-Canadians, etc.)
* The Chinese-Canadian experience was one of the best-documented examples of institutional discrimination in Canada (as no other ethnic groups were subjected to a Head Tax for entering Canada)
* While other European groups were discriminated within Canada, Canada did welcome European immigrations in an effort to encourage Western settlement, as the Canadian government placed ads in newspapers throughout Europe, promising free land in Western Canada. Although there was some discriminations against other ethncities in Europe, they were relatively mild to what the Chinese had experienced.
 
NPOV is not negotiable. Period. Read [[WP:NPOV]] and [[WP:POV fork]] sometime; be warned, they're longer than seven sentences; they're "too long did not read".
Thus, I wouldn't exactly mention discrimination against the Chinese and that of the Irish in the same breath. [[User:Bourquie|Bourquie]] 13:18, 23 Nov 2006
 
"Wikipedia is not censored" is hilarious bullshit; wikilawyering is all ove the place, NPOV violations are commonplace, OWNership behaviour and DIVAism I've beeen accused of; both describe WTM to a 't'. (capital T). "I don't want to be interefered with:" as he said to someone, Viriditas I think, sums it up. No, he wants control of the sandbox and no messing around freom somebody in the way of his agenda, or his notions of content; I see bias and shabby logic not just in his content and arguments ''but in yours''.
: I thought that the focus was the discrimination of ethnic groups in Canada, ''not what they were subjected to back in the "old country."'' I'm not terribly interested the treatment of Irish back in Ireland (or Chinese back in China for that matter), since the focus of that article has to do with ethnic immigration to Canada. Second, I'm not the person who put in that misinformation. I started this article well after I've taken a course about Chinese immigration to Canada in university. Third, I'm quite proud of my "hypenated Canadian" staus (as I'm Chinese-Canadian). If Canada celebrates its multicultural policy ("the cultural moasic") so much, then long-time Canadians should accept newcomers who like to identify with their heritage. Finally, having lived in a province with a significant Ukrainian population (Alberta), I'm quite interested in the Ukrainian experience in Canada. [[User:Bourquie|Bourquie]] 12:01, 24 Nov 2006
 
The block is over, but I will not be back, other than to answer Anna below;
==Historical photos==
Hey Skookum - I reposted the argument, links, and copyright tags beneath your reply so that the info and resources are available to everyone. Hopefully it'll encourage others to upload historical photos because there's a lot of great ones on the web. My original post with that stuff seems to have been archived.[[User:Bobanny|Bobanny]] 17:44, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
 
I will now re-place the [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Chinese_Canadians_in_British_Columbia&diff=prev&oldid=657025225 templates] he removed a month after you blocked me, The Interior - ''did you even notice''. And they belong in "his" new article, which is a travesty not just of bias and essay/synth/trivia but also of incredibly bad english composition.
==Panama==
(the canal, not the Van Halen song...)
It's a little simplistic to say X caused Y, but that's hard to avoid in this format when more than one sentence per idea is considered extravagant. If the port's coming of age has to be boiled down to one thing, it might be better to say it was the reduction of freight rates on goods shipped through the Rockies in the 1920s. Prior to that, there were discriminatory rates imposed by the railways that made it uneconomical to ship prairie grain west even though Vancouver was the nearest port. Van was, obviously, also the new kid on the block, so all the infrastructure was already oriented to shipping it east. Anticipation that the Panama Canal would bring a sea change in int'l shipping that might leave BC out in the cold I think drew a lot of energy and summoned the political will for developing the port to where it had state of the art facilities compared with the biggest int'l ports. Thus, the federal Harbour Commission was set up and took over much of the stewardship of the harbour from the CPR and other business interests.
 
Wikipedia has become a bureaucracy ruled by the uninformed with no sense of logic, and pandering to bias and empire-building and entrenched empire building by established admins and editors; it is not the collaborative environment it once was, and now is a battlefield and ''I'm not the one to blame for that''. Ignorance is, on the one hand, and 'gaming the system' on the other. and 'gaming the system' is exactly what has gone on here, and you have either been suckered by it ''or were part of it''.
Much of the grain trade was then diverted to Vancouver not only from Montreal's port, but even from American ports that were in on the action. The 1st grain elevator in Van was called "Stevens Folly" (after H.H. Stevens) because it was mostly unused in its 1st years. Part of that was the war as you mentioned (the elevator was built in 1914), and port development didn't really take off til the 20s. Vancouver also pioneered storage methods for grain so it could actually make it to the UK without rotting even if it travelled through the tropics (apparently that was one of the major arguments against shipping grain west. There's also Western Canada's lumber and mineral resources that are much closer to the Pacific coast than eastern ports. No matter how cheap trains are, it's still cheaper by water, so it made economic sense to float stuff down to Panama from Vancouver and back up again to the UK, or even to the Atlantic coast (BC timber for NYC construction, for example). Anyway, if you can give me an email address, I can send this article (its a PDF). It's a good read, succinct and she explains it better than I can.[[User:Bobanny|Bobanny]] 02:49, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
 
That this anti-consensus block in direct violation of policy was done by two ''paid editors'' - paid by the WMF no less - makes it all the more noxious; you have lost yourself a once-loyal contributor by pandering to an obvious propagandist. I will place those templates; I've already said ''over and over'' what is wrong with the CCinBC article; the same applies on the CCinGV article. So why bother contributing ''anything more to Wikipedia AT ALL'' when I have been hounded and harassed to help along a prodigious but suspicious editor. Please note - he is now no. 21 up from no. 34 onthe lsit of all time contributors; that is not some kind of proof of his validity, MRG, rather it calls into question the value of those contributions and note, the very bad writing and repetitious content and bad sourcing; i still think he's not one editor but a team, and if he isn't then prove it by opening his edit summary instead of concealing it; CHECKUSER is called for but given the bureaucracy is staffed by the same kind of people who have hounded and condemned me I have better things to be doing with my life and time.
==history section==
Just as I read your comment about the battle in seattle movie, a super-bright movie set light began shining through my window (somewhere north of hastings near main - is that your people?) That's hysterical that they're bringing authentic Seattleites across the border for the shoot.
:Also a fiscal issue. Even at ten beans an hour, multiply that by 1000, then add 1.5x/hr for four hours of basic overtime, then 2.0x/hr for the next 4. Plus meal penalties and, after 16 hours, triple time (or, hm, is it quadruple time?)...also they're likely to be a lot more enthusiastic than Canadian extras, although apparently the few dozen they used today for the silent-protest phase of the story did a smack-on job, so real the director or a.d. or whomever came into holding kudo'd them for looking and behaving like the real thing (a detailed video of the story/riots had been shown in holding, over and over, so people would have an idea how to behave; quite a few people got upgrades from camera close-ups today, I'd gather; I was a bland passerby, mostly sat in holding. And no, we were on the Library steps and at street level at GM Place. What you saw was probably ''Intelligence'', the DaVinci spinof series.[[User:Skookum1|Skookum1]] 03:33, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
 
I will not be writing in Wikipedia anymore; but I definitely will be writing ''about'' wikipedia, {{ping|User:Jimbo Wales}} take note. Not that you care, it seems that your own staffers were who hounded me out and blockerd me- you ''condoned'' their violation of the NPOV policy.
About the Vancouver article, I'm gonna try and step back for a little while. I've already put way too much time into it, and the FA process has been very frustrating, so I'll wait until the dust settles a bit. The introduction's already been completely re-written since yesterday. I just glanced through the Vancouver article on the Canadian Encyclopedia, which was interesting. I didn't pay too much to the content - most of the usual stuff - but I like the structure. It was written by Patricia Roy, an historian, but interestingly enough, it didn't have a "history" section. Instead, she goes through the various themes ("economy," "transportation," etcetera) and treats them all historically. It's a bit late to reconceptualize our Vancouver article, but I think maybe it could be reworked in that direction. No matter what factoids you choose, it feels unsatisfying to cram it all in to 2 paragraphs, while the rest of the article can be somewhat a-historical. For example, transportation could cover a fair bit of interesting historical developments (BCER, anti-freeway campaign) rather than beginning with the skytrain in 1986. Same with demographics - it might flow better if it were organized chronologically. The history section, rather than being a ghetto, could be left to deal with the earlier history, maybe divided between pre and post incorporation. That's my thoughts, but I'll let it sit for a while and see what develops.
 
Legacypac and others from the political-activist branch of Wikipedia will no doubt be happy that I am gone; watch for the gloating; hell, WTM went out and ''looked'' for enemies to help condemn me with - he was polling, in othr words. Would a responsible admin be doing that? No - bt I don't think there ''are'' many responsible admins; hypocritical ones by the score, to be sure.
Also, I do have a fairly large collection of local history books and would be willing to look up specific information for citations and what not. I know it's not realistic to run to the library to get the proper citations. It would be nice to have more printed and fewer internet sources used as well. Chuck Davis is good because he's in both places, but I'd also like to feel less like we're replicating the Greater Vancouver Book here too. [[User:Bobanny|Bobanny]] 03:23, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
:Chuck also has errors, and repeats errors. Not wilfull confabulation or sins of omission; I haven't read him in detail but I've noticed things here and there that are either mis-takes or repetitions of stories from someone else that may have, for instance, come from bumpf/brochure aeons ago and have come to be considered as fact. That said, I can't provide any immediate examples. Anyway, had a nap and time for my bath....[[User:Skookum1|Skookum1]] 03:33, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
::Yeah, I've noticed some of that. What I like about the GVB though, and probably CD's biggest strength, is that he brought a lot of people together and had them write a piece on something they know something about - an architect on architecture, historian on history, archeologist on archeology (to use some examples cited in Wiki Vancouver article). As a quick reference guide, a source for local trivia and anecdotes, it's great, but I don't think I'd pull it out as the final word in a debate. [[User:Bobanny|Bobanny]] 04:24, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
 
If you ban me for this 'rant' then please delete ALL my contributions and build back the thousands of articles I've contributed ''yourselves''. Maybe WTM would care to undertake that huh?
==Featured Article==
 
Seeing the removal of thoe templates was the height of gall, but it's not the first time he's behaved with incredible arrogance, "Honestly" in his edit comment [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Chinese_Canadians_in_British_Columbia&diff=prev&oldid=657025225 here] is a joke; he hasn't been honest or respectful ever since he barged into Canadian wikispace. He's played you, and won. Maybe he'll be Number One someday huh?
{| style="border: 1px solid {{{border|gray}}}; background-color: {{{color|#fdffe7}}};"
|rowspan="2" valign="top" | [[Image:Wikimedal.jpg|80px]]
|rowspan="2" |
|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 0; vertical-align: bottom; height: 1.1em;" | '''The Featured Article Medal'''
|-
|style="vertical-align: top; border-top: 1px solid gray;" | I gratefully award you [[Template:The_Featured_Article_Medal|The Featured Article Medal]] in recognition of your contributions to the article [[Vancouver]]. Thanks to your efforts and vast improvements on the article, on November 22, 2006 the article successfully went through an FAC and became a Featured Article. I hope you continue to improve the quality of articles relating to the [[WP:Vancouver|WikiProject Vancouver]] as your help was 'beyond the call of duty'. Thank you again, [[User:Mkdw|<span style="font-size: 13px arial; color: #3366FF;">Mkdw</span>]][[User talk:Mkdw|<sup>''talk''</sup>]] 00:27, 23 November 2006 (UTC)
|}
 
Wikipedia should not have been gamed like this. And you should all learn to read and not say you are going to take action against someone if you don't wsant to listen to what they have to say.
== hey there ==
 
Power corrupts, and you are corrupt. And in the wrong.[[User:Skookum1|Skookum1]] ([[User talk:Skookum1#top|talk]]) 01:49, 17 June 2015 (UTC)
Why do you have to get so worked up about everything? I mean, we disagree on this issue, but you don't have to take it personal or accuse the world of working against you. We share a lot of the same views on most things, and you're about as close to a friend as I have on wikipedia, but I feel you're going a little over the top on this Chinese Immigration thing. Fine, you feel it's POV. I saw you had made a bunch of edits on friday (with some pretty extreme edit summaries), and to be honest, I was worried, because I know you have pretty intense feelings on the issue, which run pretty much totally contrary to mine. But when I saw your edits, I didn't see any problem with them. Just keep up your reasonable edits, and there doesn't have to be a fight at all.
 
:Welcome back. Let me see if I get this straight: after being blocked for three months for alleged battleground behavior, disruptive editing, and personal attacks, the first thing you did when your block expired was to ''return'' to battleground behavior, disruptive editing, and personal attacks. Am I correct on this, because that's what your contribution seems to show. Also, you once again complain about how nobody reads what you write, but you've been repeatedly told to shorten your TL;DR rants and ravings into something that is brief and to the point out of ''consideration'' for those of us who have jobs and actually have to work for a living. Is any of this getting through to you? [[User:Viriditas|Viriditas]] ([[User talk:Viriditas|talk]]) 02:21, 17 June 2015 (UTC)
I agree with you that the government didn't issue redress/compensation right away because they were worried that they'd have to give it out to everyone, but I never heard any politician actually give that as an excuse. I can't imagine anyone from Chretien to Harper saying "Yes, that would be the right thing to do, but we don't want to do it because it would cost too much, because we'd have to start doing the right thing all around." I could well be wrong, but usually politicians aren't that honest. My edit wasn't POV. I'm not trying to hide anything, or push an opposite viewpoint from yours, I just never heard anyone responsible make that claim. You freaking out and claiming to be the only person who reads the newspaper is not only uncalled for, it's not going to help anything. If you want to put it back in with a fact ref, or a citation, go right ahead, but calm down a little and assume good faith, okay? -- [[User:Themightyquill|TheMightyQuill]] 05:37, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
 
::coming from someone who claimed to be a moderator and demand I concede to a blatant guideline violation/instruction creep while refusing to discuss the NPOV policy you're nothing more than a hypocrite; you condoned the creation of a POV fork and shepherded a badly-written and over-sourced ''tract'' to mainspace and did ''nothing'' when he removed tags from the CCinBC article without ''ever'' even reading or doing anything about the many problems that article had, and still has. You are not a moderator you are a ''harassser'' and a scold; if you were a moderator you would have sought to understand the POV and sourcing problems instead of demand I accept his ''false'' claims about what RS says (which it doesn't) or his false claims about what that board said in response to him. ''He is a liar''.
==Skookum==
 
::"Is any of this getting through to you"?? hahah repeat after me "I won't be back", other than to chronicle for Anna below the number of times controversial actions have prompted responses frm me and how many there are out there who intervene on subject and title discussions who have no clue what they're talking about. ''That includes YOU''.
Good evening. I got your messages and was slightly taken aback. I have to say that you have made some rather bizarre assumptions! You refer to "my pet" twice and say "you may love your kitten..." What are you talking about? I do not own any Skookums. I am part of the WikiProject Cats group and am working to ensure that all recognised breeds of cat have a page and profile. This is not the only one I have done work on. What on earth gave you the idea that I had a Skookum? I am also slightly bemused at your assertions that the profile was written in overly cutesy language. It is a straightforward description of the physical characteristics of the breed and the history of its development. The only bit which might have been taken this way was the one sentence description of the typical temperament. I have removed this now, although you will find that many of the other breed profiles do have a description of temperament. Thanks for your clarification about TICA, as you will have read the breed was accepted for registration, but the breed name was not approved because someone on the committe thought the word Skookum meant something bad. Obviously this is just one of the organisations and the DCA is also there as a citation. So, no, I have no emotional attachment to the Skookum breed, I do not own one. None even exist in the country I live in. This is not my invention. The info is now accurate and appropriate in tone with citations. And just to make sure I have contacted a person who is a cat breeder who breeds this breed to request that she reviews the page. I do hope this clarifies your issues. Please do not remove any moe cat breed profiles, although go ahead if you want to set the Skookum page to a disambiguation page leading off to four pages. I am not totally sure wikipedia should be used as a dictionary, so perhaps your first definition of skookum shouldn't be here, but there could be a page for the monster and one for the dolls.
 
::You have always been a waste of time. But here you are, back to the harassmwent and the scolding and ''still'' not considering t he POV issues I've raised, and ''still'' condoning the ''immortal prose'' of his contributions, which is just plain sophomorically bad English plus too many uses of "So-and-so in such-and-such said that the term is [adjective]" and building SYNTH arguments from that. but you're perhaps in teh same camp as him, and only here to protect rankly POV editors like him frmo people calling "bullshit". which is what this block was, and what all that was said by those refusing to read what the problems were ''without ever researching content''. My anger is justified; and so is my contempt for ''YOU'' in particular. Moderator my ass; have ytou taken down that bit from the Dhammapada from your userpage yet??[[User:Skookum1|Skookum1]] ([[User talk:Skookum1#top|talk]]) 02:38, 17 June 2015 (UTC)
==PS==
 
:::This would be incredibly funny if it wasn't so pathetically sad and depressing. Do you realize that every time you post a comment to Wikipedia, your sole intention is to lash out and attempt to harm others? Here are some words that others might use to describe your behavior: vindictive, vengeful, unforgiving, resentful, jealous and bitter. The best thing you can do for yourself is leave Wikipedia and find a good psychiatrist who will treat you. [[User:Viriditas|Viriditas]] ([[User talk:Viriditas|talk]]) 02:53, 17 June 2015 (UTC)
Also puzzled by your comment "You also shouldn't have the cat breeds category on your own userpage; you're not a cat". I do not understand why you have said this when I do not have the cat breeds category on my userpage. You did not look properly. What is says is "This user is a member of WikiProject Cats". Many thanks for looking at the page though.
 
== Columbia River route map ==
 
::::'''''JEALOUS'''' hahahah man that's a good one; and here you are making more than one rank NPA ("find a good pyschiatrist who will treat you" is a ''rank'' violation of NPA but hey you're immune from any reproach huh?). Hghahahah man you sum up everything that is wrong with this place.[[User:Skookum1|Skookum1]] ([[User talk:Skookum1#top|talk]]) 02:56, 17 June 2015 (UTC)
Hello, Skookum. I’m sorry to take so long to get back to you on this. I was on vacation from Wikipedia for a few months, and then I kept meaning to respond but I kept putting it off. I have updated the Columbia River satellite photo/map as you suggested to show the Columbia’s complete route in British Columbia. The new map is here: [[:Image:Roll On Columbia.jpg]]. (The old one was here: [[:Image:Roll on Columbia.jpg]].) I meant to just overwrite the old one when I uploaded the new one, but due to a capitalization error (On ''vs.'' on) I wound up creating a new image. So I updated the three links to the old image and I requested deletion of the old one with an <nowiki>{{ifd}}</nowiki> tag. •[[User:DanMS|DanMS]] 03:50, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
:Looks great, pity can't get the top of the Big Bend on it, as I'm planning an article on [[Big Bend (British Columbia)]], and there'll be a [[Big Bend, British Columbia]] (which was a town) and [[Big Bend Gold Rush]]; this would be a great map for some BC illustrative maps, particularly history (see [[Cariboo Road]] and [[Okanagan Trail]]. What's really interesting on these satellite maps is you can see the border; because of different land blocks and logging cuts and other activity-shifts from one side of the 49th Parallel to the other; especially through the Kootenays/Idaho-Montana and out onto the Prairie.[[User:Skookum1|Skookum1]] 07:09, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
:*I noticed that you could see the border, after you pointed it out. It’s interesting! Here is something along similar lines that is quite interesting. On my website at [http://www.danshort.com/earthlights/earthlights2.htm www.danshort.com] there is a very dramatic dividing line that you can see from space, where the border between North Korea and South Korea crosses the peninsula. South Korea is ablaze with light, while North Korea has just a few pinpoints here and there. What a difference between a free, capitalist country and a Communist tyranny! •[[User:DanMS|DanMS]] 00:50, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
 
:::::[post-edit conflict] :::It's a complete joke that I was blamed for "battlefield behaviour" when the battlelfield behaviour was his from the ''very start'' from his first appearance on [[WP:CANTALK]]. but ''none'' of those condemning me have condescended to ''read'' the disputes and observe the escalating battlefield against ''me'' though RfCs, NOR RS and other boaards, and illogical responses and arguments against sources and so on; ''none of those condemning me'' including the scold above have read the whole of the dispute, ''or'' paid attention to my points about how he counter-attacked with demands including I should buy a book when he knew I didn't have money, or following my comments asking him to 'back off' as I was having health and life-crisi problem by posting a parody of that bout himself ''then'' launching into a massive amount of edits and also talkpage/board arguments against me. the battlefield has always been of his making; and he enlisted supporters and blatantly polled for support by those hostile to me. but who gets blamed? His victim. You're all sociopaths IMO.[[User:Skookum1|Skookum1]] ([[User talk:Skookum1#top|talk]]) 02:56, 17 June 2015 (UTC)
== Football? ==
 
::::::Per [[WP:NOTTHEM]], you should be immediately re-blocked. To come back here after three months and start right where you left off is a good rationale for an indef. [[User:Viriditas|Viriditas]] ([[User talk:Viriditas|talk]]) 03:01, 17 June 2015 (UTC)
When you Canadians say “football,” are you referring to [[American football]] or [[Football (soccer)]]? •[[User:DanMS|DanMS]] 18:44, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
 
And who are you again? You are a harasser and have refused to consider ''any'' of the content issues I have raised and it is ''you'' who have furthered teh battlefield behaviour here as you have before. Be that as it may, you just made two ''very'' personal attacks and I launched an ANI against you, and it's ''you'' who need disciplining, ''not me''.
:[[Canadian football]], which resembles American football but with slightly different rules (longer field, different scoring system and penalty/"down" rules, game relies more on passing than carrying). [[Football (soccer)]] in Canada is always referred to as soccer, usually even by expat Brits and Euros and Aussies, at least when they're talking to "us". Canadian football and American football are not quite the same game, even though players come and go between the respective leagues; more similar than different, relative to the differences between ordinary rugger and Aussie rules (which are totally different games); the Canadian-American distinction is more to do with rules and style/strategy. Supposedly ours is older, too, as the first game ever known was between the Harvard (or Yale?) rugby club and the McGill soccer league, at McGill (Montreal).[[User:Skookum1|Skookum1]] 21:19, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
:*Interesting. You learn something every day. I didn’t know there was such a game as Canadian football! •[[User:DanMS|DanMS]] 21:47, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
 
Indefinitely blocked for standing up for myself? that's how this place works huh? and who are you again? some interloper who won't consider the subject matter and its POV violations but instead engaged in threatening and demanding behaviour; instead of moderating you ''took sides''. The only reason I don't care about an indefinite block is I want to ''publicly'' explain to Anna below why her question is a conundrum and list off the controversies that I engaged myself in that ''needed engaging'' and gee, which for the most part, ''I won''.
== Football and Culture ==
 
And as for being "bitter" of course I'm bitter that people from outside my province have created a blatantly biased and distorted version of its social history, while engaging in personal attacks in the course of preventing me from adding balance and/or arguing for it. {{Ping|User:JimboWales}} please take note of all this; the harrassment I have received here is a violation of behavioural guidelines in the course of retrenching a violation - a very blatant violation - of [[WP:NPOV]]. I'm not insane, and I'm not stupid either; hilarious that V. 's barntar for me had been, in part, for 'calling a spade a spade'; but when the shit was on his own shovel, he/she turned nasty. Or is he/she on your payroll too, as are Moonriddengirl and The Interior? [[User:Skookum1|Skookum1]] ([[User talk:Skookum1#top|talk]]) 03:23, 17 June 2015 (UTC)
See [[User talk:DanMS|my reply]]. •[[User:DanMS|DanMS]] 22:48, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
 
:Please switch to a decaf. <small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/98.67.0.13|98.67.0.13]] ([[User talk:98.67.0.13|talk]]) 04:43, 20 February 2016 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
==Tree photo==
Hi Skookum1 - just happened on your pic link [http://www.cayoosh.net/pix/cleven/bridgecanyon99.jpg] that you posted on Talk:Lodgepole Pine a few months ago. It looks most like a juniper to me, probably ''Juniperus scopulorum''. - [[User:MPF|MPF]] 13:32, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
 
== Indefinitely blocked ==
==Curious edit to Columbia River==
Hi Skookum1. I'm curious about [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Columbia_River&curid=5408&diff=93765540&oldid=92997163 this edit] to the [[Columbia River]]. You deleted two ''accessdate'' fields in citations, and removed/damaged two ''ISBN'' numbers. The other edit (adding ''allegedly'') is fine. What happened? — [[user:EncMstr|EncMstr]] 07:23, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
 
Skookum1, I have indefinitely blocked you for immediately resuming battleground behavior against [[User:WhisperToMe]] upon your return from your block. Converting your block to indefinite or following with indefinite if the behavior continued was an option presented by several at [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Archive269#Block_review_-_Skookum1 the review of your prior block], where consensus was confirmed for that block. I'm sorry that it's necessary.
All I remember doing is adding "allegedly" and making the edit comment; I don't remember deleting ''anything''. Maybe there was a rapid-type ctrl-select that I didn't see in the course of typing (been known to happen when I'm writing/editing, but in the course of ordinary text - not infobox formatting). I also wasn't anywhere near the section that had ISBN numbers; I made only one edit (that I was aware of) - the addition of "allegedly". Could this be a glitch somehow?[[User:Skookum1|Skookum1]] 08:07, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
 
Content policy concerns do not trump behavioral policy concerns. ([[WP:BATTLEGROUND]], [[WP:CIVIL]] and [[WP:NPA]] are all policies.) It is not necessary to engage in battleground behavior to right wrongs; what is necessary is to demonstrate to other users that your content concerns are valid. If the user with whom you are disagreeing cannot be persuaded, dispute resolution is the way to go. If dispute resolution does not garner consensus to your view, you need to let it go.
That's weird. If it was a glitch, it had a semi-uniform shotgun distribution where it tore up the target. I made the intended fix. Thanks. — [[user:EncMstr|EncMstr]] 08:16, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
 
I do not believe that you should be unblocked without some indication that you are willing to work very differently here. I realize that you are angry that those who have disagreed with your behavior have not also involved themselves in content, but as I noted to you in the past [[WP:INVOLVED]] does not permit this. There are many, many editors who can help tangle out the content issue if you are unblocked and will only engage without the personal attacks, unsupported allegations of impropriety and incivility that you have continued to lodge against WhisperToMe. --[[User:Moonriddengirl|Moonriddengirl]] <sup>[[User talk:Moonriddengirl|(talk)]]</sup> 12:41, 17 June 2015 (UTC)
== Irish Canadian ==
 
== The Wikipedia Library needs you! ==
Try assuming good faith one and a while, eh? I wrote that section, and I'll admit it is actually prairie-centric. But that's not because I'm part of some "Central Canadian" plot to deny BC's existance. I just was using "the West" poetically, and in the "old west", "wild west", "last, best, west", etc. Salright? [[User:Kevlar67|Kevlar67]] 02:44, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
 
[[File:Wikipedia Library owl.svg|110px|right|link=WP:The Wikipedia Library]]
:I know, but it's a common prairie view to regard BC as part of the same region; only by direction and distance from the centre; it's a term which doesn't "work" in BC, and it's incidental (sort of) that the content in that section was about the Prairies only; I just happened to be browsing a book on immigrant groups in BC (''Strangers Entertained'', which you won't find in bookstores as it was a govt centennial publication in '71) and was perusing the Irish section. Ours were different than those in other parts of the country, and BC attracted a certain element/type from any group; Raised myself a storm of definition issues now because have a look at [[Talk:Scots-Irish American]] (which for now includes a section on Canada, which in the Irish-from-Ireland view is "in America", "America" meaning the New World to them, not just the U.S.....); the definition problem now comes because it's hard to tell who to give [[:Category:Irish Canadians]] to, and who to give [[:Category:Ulster-Scottish Canadians]] to, and there might have to be an [[:Category:Anglo-Irish Canadians]] because many of BC's Anglo-Irish weren't from Ulster, nor part Scots; but there's no Anglo-Irish in Canada or Scots-Irish in Canada articles; just the US one. Found this out when I dropped by to add the Irish Canadian tag to [[John Foster McCreight]] and [[Andrew Charles Elliott]] (BC's 1st and 4th Premiers), as I had just done for [[John Andrew Mara]] and [[Forbes George Vernon]].[[User:Skookum1|Skookum1]] 02:51, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
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I removed the French from BC and from other provinces except NB and QC on the grounds that they are officially french-language provinces. Not sure I'm up for an edit war either, but if anyone takes issue, I'll look around and see if there's an actual Wikipedia policy or guideline on the issue. There were other languages I cut out too, and from Ontario to Alberta were all English-only. It's likely that one Francophile went through and stuck the French in, and that it won't be a big issue. I noticed on Newfoundlands talk page there was a discussion about a Japanese translation that had been included. C'est tout bizarre, in my opinion.[[User:Bobanny|Bobanny]] 21:51, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
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== Precious anniversary ==
:"You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him think." Such bizzarities are common in Canada, esp. with language and culture politics...(see [[Talk:Squamish Nation]] if you haven't already)[[User:Skookum1|Skookum1]] 22:00, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
 
{{User QAIbox
== [[Kanaka]] ==
| title = Three years ago ...
| image = Cornflower blue Yogo sapphire.jpg
| image_upright = 0.45
| bold = indigenous common sense<br /> and knowledge
| normal = ... you were recipient<br /> no. '''[[Wikipedia:WikiProject Quality Article Improvement/Precious#Skookum1|583]]''' of [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Quality Article Improvement/Precious|Precious]],<br /> a prize of QAI!
}}
--[[User:Gerda Arendt|Gerda Arendt]] ([[User talk:Gerda Arendt|talk]]) 06:49, 23 August 2016 (UTC)
 
Six years now, miss you --[[User:Gerda Arendt|Gerda Arendt]] ([[User talk:Gerda Arendt|talk]]) 05:38, 24 August 2019 (UTC)
Hi. Could you please avoid phrases like ''put the lie to...'', it is hard to read it and assume that you are assuming good faith.
{{clear}}
Words in the English language take on very different <s>meanings </s> implications between canadian, english, american, australian and new zealand usage (eg: football, sloppy joe, thong). I think that Kanaka was probably borrowed in Australia from Canada because it has nicer roots than "kaffir" - which is a better comparison to the Australian treatment of Kanakas, than the comparison between Canadian Kanaka and Australian Kanaka.[[User:GarrieIrons|Ga]][[User_talk:GarrieIrons|rr]][[Special:Contributions/GarrieIrons|ie]] 04:21, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
:The "put the lie to" comment was fair, considering that the article had been written, albeit in good faith, under the assumption that Australian bigotries can be applied across the board to Canadian bigotries; the "indentured servants" wording is POV, unless equal-time is given to the notion that ALL Hudson's Bay Company staff, including managers, clerks and chief factors, were also "indentured servants". I had added material to the article about the different meaning of the word, and the different social situation, on our side of the Pacific, and to back it up included the Koppel cite (out of potentially very many; it's just the most focussed publication); but some earnest Australasian deleted that material because...well, no real good reason was given other than disbelief, based in a lack of knowledge of what happened with Kanakas in North America. I'm of the kind that if something is a lie, I'm going to call it a lie, and that's what I did.[[User:Skookum1|Skookum1]] 00:24, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
 
==[[:Category:Steamboat articles by route]] has been nominated for discussion==
== Grease Trails ==
 
<div class="floatleft" style="margin-bottom:0">[[File:Ambox warning orange.svg|48px|alt=|link=]]</div>'''[[:Category:Steamboat articles by route]]''', which you created, has been nominated for possible deletion, merging, or renaming. A discussion is taking place to see if it abides with the [[Wikipedia:Categorization|categorization]] guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at '''[[Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2016 September 3#Category:Steamboat articles by route|the category's entry]]''' on the [[Wikipedia:Categories for discussion|categories for discussion]] page.<!-- Template:Cfd-notify--> Thank you. <b>[[User:DexDor|DexDor]]</b><sup> [[User talk:DexDor|(talk)]]</sup> 05:19, 3 September 2016 (UTC)
So far we've got the [[Alexander MacKenzie Heritage Trail]], [[Nyan Wheti]], [[Cheslatta Trail]] and [[Whatcom Trail]].
 
== [[Wikipedia:The 1000 Challenge (Nordic)]] ==
I think of them as being grease trails or part of a network of grease trails, rather than parts of '''The Grease Trail''', but that's really just semantics, I guess, and I'm not really knowledgeable on the subject. There's already a [[:Category:Trade routes]], but a category for indigenous trade routes would be worth creating? In the states, it seems like a lot of them have been turned into highways, which makes things a little confusing. =) - [[User:Themightyquill|TheMightyQuill]] 04:13, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
 
Hi. I was wondering if you would be interested in contributing articles to [[Wikipedia:The 1000 Challenge (Nordic)]]? It needs contributors to increase diversity of content from different countries and bring about large scale improvements. The idea at some point will be to host a National Contest related to your country of interest. Thanks. --[[User:MediaWiki message delivery|MediaWiki message delivery]] ([[User talk:MediaWiki message delivery|talk]]) 13:14, 21 September 2016 (UTC)
:There's actual articles on "the" Grease Trail, but again it's a network, although a primary route is usually mapped, with one splinter/alternate route, alongside maps I've seen of it; the Mackenzie trail uses it for most if its stretch. Yes, there are generic grease trails, and maybe that's an article in and of itself; somehow this particular one gained the name of "the" Grease Trail; I'll see what I can find on it; it's old textbook material and also was current in newspaper history articles through the "native renaissance" of the 1970s and '80s (before the counter-coverage began post-Oka).
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==Asian 10,000 Challenge invite==
:As for a separate category of native trade routes vs post-contact ones, that's not going to work as one is often the other; there is nowhere else to go. And many of the native trade routes don't have names, though spots along them do (e.g. a named pass), and they're not quite the same thing as an infrastuctural route, i.e. something constructed/budgeted/maintained - something that could be accounted for in material history rather than by ethnographic cartography; as far as mandated routes go also need writeups are the Hudson's Bay Brigade Trail (Spuzzum-Coldwater-Merritt) and the route of the Company Express (books and profits from Fort Vancouver to Port Churchill, annually...via Colville not via Kamloops as I'd ocne thought...); the Brigade Trail is not a native route but the Express Route consistently used native trade routes (i.e. the rivers and portages connecting them). There can implicitly be no distinction, whether it's the [[Lillooet Cattle Trail]] or [[Douglas Road]] or [[Cariboo Road]], all of which used "native trade routes". I'd suggest maybe a category on something like Heritage Routes rather than Trade Routes, although I'm not fond of the word "heritage" but "historical" doesn't cut it either. Waddington's Road (the aborted Homathko Canyon gold rush route cf [[Chilcotin War]] comes in there; also the route of the Collins Telegraph, known as the Telegraph Trail). BC's history is in large part that of the establishment of constructed, mapped infrastructure (our first military were, needless to say, all professional surveyors and engineers...). The Whatcom Trail was not a native trade route; rather a badly-conceived and largely awkward route from Bellingham Bay to the Chilliwack area of the Fraser; see its inland counterpart the [[Okanagan Trail]] and I have yet to write the [[Couteau Country Trail]] (the Similkameen-Coldwater/Nicola branch of the Okanagan Trail]]).[[User:Skookum1|Skookum1]] 06:42, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
Hi. The [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Asia/The 10,000 Challenge]] has recently started, based on the UK/Ireland [[Wikipedia:The 10,000 Challenge]] and [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Africa/The 10,000 Challenge]]. The idea is not to record every minor edit, but to create a momentum to motivate editors to produce good content improvements and creations and inspire people to work on more countries than they might otherwise work on. There's also the possibility of establishing smaller country or regional challenges for places like South East Asia, Japan/China or India etc, much like [[Wikipedia:The 1000 Challenge (Nordic)]]. For this to really work we need diversity and exciting content and editors from a broad range of countries regularly contributing. At some stage we hope to run some contests to benefit Asian content, a destubathon perhaps, aimed at reducing the stub count would be a good place to start, based on the current [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Africa/The Africa Destubathon]] which has produced near 200 articles in just three days. If you would like to see this happening for Asia, and see potential in this attracting more interest and editors for the country/countries you work on please sign up and being contributing to the challenge! This is a way we can target every country of Asia, and steadily vastly improve the encyclopedia. We need numbers to make this work so consider signing up as a participant! Thank you. --[[User:Ser Amantio di Nicolao|<span style="font-family:Old English Text MT;">Ser Amantio di Nicolao</span>]]<sup>[[User_talk:Ser Amantio di Nicolao|''Che dicono a Signa?'']]</sup><sub>[[Special:Contributions/Ser Amantio di Nicolao|'''Lo dicono a Signa.''']]</sub> 02:59, 21 October 2016 (UTC)
 
== Europe 10,000 Challenge invite ==
== Canadian volcanoes ==
 
Hi. The [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Europe/The 10,000 Challenge]] has recently started, based on the UK/Ireland [[Wikipedia:The 10,000 Challenge]]. The idea is not to record every minor edit, but to create a momentum to motivate editors to produce good content improvements and creations and inspire people to work on more countries than they might otherwise work on. There's also the possibility of establishing smaller country or regional challenges for places like Germany, Italy, the Benelux countries, Iberian Peninsula, Romania, Slovenia etc, much like [[Wikipedia:The 1000 Challenge (Nordic)]]. For this to really work we need diversity and exciting content and editors from a broad range of countries regularly contributing. If you would like to see masses of articles being improved for Europe and your specialist country like [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Africa/The Africa Destubathon]], sign up today and once the challenge starts a contest can be organized. This is a way we can target every country of Europe, and steadily vastly improve the encyclopedia. We need numbers to make this work so consider signing up as a participant and also sign under any country sub challenge on the page that you might contribute to! Thank you. --[[User:MediaWiki message delivery|MediaWiki message delivery]] ([[User talk:MediaWiki message delivery|talk]]) 21:09, 7 November 2016 (UTC)
i would add photos for the volcanoes but i have no clue how to. <small>—The preceding [[Wikipedia:Sign your posts on talk pages|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:Black Tusk|Black Tusk]] ([[User talk:Black Tusk|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Black Tusk|contribs]]) 20:25, 16 December 2006 (UTC).</small><!-- HagermanBot Auto-Unsigned -->
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== New 10,000 Challenge for Canada ==
== Garibaldi Lake ==
 
Hi, [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Canada/The 10,000 Challenge]] is up and running based on [[Wikipedia:The 10,000 Challenge]] for the UK which has currently produced over 2300 article improvements and creations. If you'd like to see large scale quality improvements happening for Canada like [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Africa/The Africa Destubathon|The Africa Destubathon]], which has produced over 1600 articles in 5 weeks, sign up on the page. The idea will be an ongoing national editathon/challenge for Canada but fuelled by a contest such as [[Wikipedia:WikiProject North America/The North America Destubathon|The North America Destubathon]] to really get articles on every province and subject mass improved. I would like some support from Canadian wikipedians here to get the Challenge off to a start with some articles to make doing a Destubathon worthwhile! Cheers. --[[User:MediaWiki message delivery|MediaWiki message delivery]] ([[User talk:MediaWiki message delivery|talk]]) 01:55, 22 November 2016 (UTC)
Yea, but Garibaldi Lake is a volcanic lake <small>—The preceding [[Wikipedia:Sign your posts on talk pages|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:Black Tusk|Black Tusk]] ([[User talk:Black Tusk|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Black Tusk|contribs]]) 23:13, 16 December 2006 (UTC).</small><!-- HagermanBot Auto-Unsigned -->
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== File:Squatch1.jpg listed for discussion ==
[[File:Information.svg|30px|left]] A file that you uploaded or altered, [[:File:Squatch1.jpg]], has been listed at [[Wikipedia:Files for discussion]]. Please see the [[Wikipedia:Files for discussion/2016 December 7#File:Squatch1.jpg|'''discussion''']] to see why it has been listed (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry). Feel free to add your opinion on the matter below the nomination. Thank you. <!-- Template:Fdw --> [[User:Jon Kolbert|Jon Kolbert]] ([[User talk:Jon Kolbert|talk]]) 11:40, 7 December 2016 (UTC)
==[[Wikipedia:Criteria for speedy deletion|Speedy deletion]] nomination of [[:Category:Glaciers of the Coast Mountains]]==
[[File:Ambox warning pn.svg|48px|left|alt=|link=]]
 
A tag has been placed on [[:Category:Glaciers of the Coast Mountains]] requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under [[WP:CSD#C1|section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion]], because the category has been empty for seven days or more and is not a [[:Category:Disambiguation categories|disambiguation category]], a [[:Category:Wikipedia soft redirected categories|category redirect]], a [[:Category:Wikipedia featured topics categories|featured topics category]], under discussion at [[Wikipedia:Categories for discussion|Categories for discussion]], or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion.
:Don't be cute. A lake is a lake and in this encyclopedia should be written as such; that it's a caldera is incidental; since it is (if it is) it can be included still in the Volcanoes category ([[Crater Lake]] in Oregon is in both Lakes of Oregon and Volcanoes of Oregon); but the article should be primarily about the lake itself as a geographic feature; ___location, size, volume, setting; you've written it only as a geology article as if it weren't also a geographic artifact, and of course in this case a recreational-tourism feature as well.[[User:Skookum1|Skookum1]] 23:18, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
 
If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may '''contest the nomination''' by [[:Category:Glaciers of the Coast Mountains|visiting the page]] and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be removed without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with [[Wikipedia:List of policies|Wikipedia's policies and guidelines]]. <!-- Template:Db-catempty-notice --> <!-- Template:Db-csd-notice-custom --> —[[user:swpb|<u>swpb</u>]]<sup>[[user talk:swpb|''T'']]</sup> 15:57, 15 August 2017 (UTC)
Ok i'll add information on the lake part then
== List ofgenerating stations in Manitoba listed at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|Redirects for discussion]] ==
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An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect [[List ofgenerating stations in Manitoba]]. Since you had some involvement with the ''List ofgenerating stations in Manitoba'' redirect, you might want to participate in [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2019 January 28#List ofgenerating stations in Manitoba|the redirect discussion]] if you have not already done so. <!-- from Template:RFDNote --> [[User:UnitedStatesian|UnitedStatesian]] ([[User talk:UnitedStatesian|talk]]) 20:31, 28 January 2019 (UTC)
== Nomination for deletion of Template:Nuu-chah-nulth-aht peoples ==
[[File:Ambox warning blue.svg|30px|link=]][[Template:Nuu-chah-nulth-aht peoples]] has been [[Wikipedia:Templates for discussion|nominated for deletion]]. You are invited to comment on the discussion at [[Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2019 March 2#Template:Nuu-chah-nulth-aht peoples|the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page]].<!--Template:Tfdnotice--> '''[[User:Zackmann08|<span style="color:#00ced1">Zack</span><span style="color:#007F94">mann</span>]]''' (<sup>[[User_talk:Zackmann08|Talk to me]]</sup>/<sub>[[Special:Contributions/Zackmann08|<span style="color:orange;">What I been doing</span>]]</sub>) 20:27, 2 March 2019 (UTC)
 
== New mailing list for Wikimedia Canada ==
:Try using [[Crater Lake]] as a guideline for overall layout; it's a good article and has the volcanic focus you're interested in while still being a park/recreation/geographic/environmental article.[[User:Skookum1|Skookum1]] 23:33, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
 
Good day, this message is to inform you that [https://ca.wikimedia.org Wikimedia Canada] has created a new mailing list operated by Mailman. This mailing list is for all discussions related to the Wikimedia movement in Canada, in both English and French. Announcements from Wikimedia Canada will always be bilingual, but you are welcomed to discuss in any language of your choice. The old google group will be abandoned. To join this mailing list, please go to [https://discussions.wikimedia.ca/lists/listinfo/general]. To send messages to the list, write to general(at)discussions.wikimedia.ca. Also, please forward this message to anybody who may be interested. Thank you and do not hesitate to contact me if you have any questions. [[User:JP Béland (WMCA)|JP Béland (WMCA)]] ([[User talk:JP Béland (WMCA)|talk]]) 13:42, 22 March 2019 (UTC)
== [[Wikipedia:Proposed deletion|Proposed deletion]] of [[:List of Royal Navy ships in the Pacific Northwest]] ==
[[File:Ambox warning yellow.svg|left|link=|alt=Notice|48px|]]
 
The article [[:List of Royal Navy ships in the Pacific Northwest]] has been [[Wikipedia:Proposed deletion|proposed for deletion]]&#32;because of the following concern:
==skooks==
<blockquote>Original research. The only book reference only covers the period 1847 -1871 (and I've no idea how those dates fit in with the section headings). Many of the ship names listed have been borne by multiple ships and it is impossible to link them to the correct individual ship. There are no citations for the ships listed. All in all WP:TNT</blockquote>
yo skookum (dude can you believe I used the word skookum the other day in ontario only to recieve blank stares, and people asking what the hell that meant)????? Anyways I wrote the whole Shifting Fortunes part BC since the 70's, check it out have a look, have an edit, whatev
P.S. I tried not to be very socredish as people accuse me of being (which is irionic because I was born after social credits demise.) I tried to be neutral and not bash the NDP too badly... [[British Columbia]] [[User:TotallyTempo|TotallyTempo]] 01:23, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
 
While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, pages may be [[WP:DEL#REASON|deleted for any of several reasons]].
== Aldergrove ==
 
You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{Tlc|proposed deletion/dated}} notice, but please explain why in your [[Help:edit summary|edit summary]] or on [[Talk:List of Royal Navy ships in the Pacific Northwest|the article's talk page]].
I think the ___location information you added to the [[Aldergrove, British Columbia]] article is completely redundant with the second paragraph (which is already addressing the ___location). Do you see anything in there that should be merged with the second paragraph instead of just struck? --[[User:Sdfisher|Steven Fisher]] 18:46, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
 
Please consider improving the page to address the issues raised. Removing {{Tlc|proposed deletion/dated}} will stop the [[Wikipedia:Proposed deletion|proposed deletion process]], but other [[Wikipedia:deletion process|deletion process]]es exist. In particular, the [[Wikipedia:Criteria for speedy deletion|speedy deletion]] process can result in deletion without discussion, and [[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion|articles for deletion]] allows discussion to reach [[Wikipedia:Consensus|consensus]] for deletion.<!-- Template:Proposed deletion notify --> [[User:Lyndaship|Lyndaship]] ([[User talk:Lyndaship|talk]]) 15:37, 16 December 2019 (UTC)
 
== [[Smith's Landing First Nation]] ==
== Della Falls ==
 
Hi Skookum!
If you look at the canadian atlas, they identify Della Falls as the tallest in Canada. This is what Ive heard from various sources, but if you could provide some reference to the other falls being taller that would be appreciated. [[User:Bohunk|SCmurky]] 02:59, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
 
I went to correct the formatting of the reserves within Smith's Landing (e.g., no curly apostrophes per the MOS), and found all sorts of contradictory spellings. Do you have a ref for the official orthography?
www.britishcolumbia.com says Hunlen Falls is 853'; Bivouac.com gives 253m, so obviously not as high as Della, then; I'd been raised in a time when Hunlen was the highest known I guess; I do know that Hunlen has never been adequately measured because of the snowfield it drops into (its outflow runs through an ice cave), but I doubt there could be as wide a variance in its measure as 200m. Hunlen's in Tweedsmuir Provincial Park and, like much of that park, is not photographed a lot, especially under free licence; or I'd have written an article/stub on it by now. [[User:Skookum1|Skookum1]] 03:23, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
 
Please ping me if you answer.
There seems to be a lot of confusion regarding the status of waterfalls in Canada. The Atlas of Canada does not have much information, just stating a few general statistics, but the person I contacted there stated that Della Falls is the tallest; however, there remain many falls that are unmeasured. [[User:Bohunk|SCmurky]] 01:42, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
 
Thanks — [[User:Kwamikagami|kwami]] ([[User talk:Kwamikagami|talk]]) 03:56, 14 August 2020 (UTC)
==FYI==
I saw somewhere that you mentioned wanting to figure out the citation templates. If you haven't yet, you can find the templates [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Template_messages/Sources_of_articles#Citations_of_generic_sources here]. Just cut and paste from the "common usage" column and fill in the details (and place between the <nowiki><ref></ref></nowiki> things in the text). And if it's not already there, stick this in the 'references' section:<nowiki><references/></nowiki> and they'll go in automatically. I find these templates kind of tedious to use, but it seems most people prefer having them. cheers, [[User:Bobanny|Bobanny]] 09:45, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
 
== replyPrecious anniversary ==
{{User QAIbox/auto|years=Seven}}
i think that the projects do follow a hierarchy, so that the tag should be the most specific (i.e., just Vancouver, not Van,BC, and Canada). But I'm not exactly sure what the implications of that is. I asked a similar question on the BCproject talk page, but haven't got a response. In my mind, it should work like the category tree, but then again, these are independent projects and not really interconnected technically, even if they are grouped in families. So maybe it's a judgement call for each article to decide if the city and the province can claim it.
miss you --[[User:Gerda Arendt|Gerda Arendt]] ([[User talk:Gerda Arendt|talk]]) 06:30, 23 August 2020 (UTC)
==[[Wikipedia:Criteria for speedy deletion|Speedy deletion]] nomination of [[:Template:Historical geographic regions of British Columbia]]==
[[File:Ambox warning pn.svg|48px|left|alt=|link=]]
 
A tag has been placed on [[:Template:Historical geographic regions of British Columbia]] requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under [[Wikipedia:Criteria for speedy deletion#T3|section T3 of the criteria for speedy deletion]] because it is an unused duplicate of another template, or a hard-coded instance of another template. After seven days, if it is still unused and the speedy deletion tag has not been removed, the template will be deleted.
As for the French thing, the constitution (as the franco-philes like to point to as the authority) has it as la Colombie-Britannique, in upper case. But I think it only needs the 'la' if it's in a sentence, so that the infobox doesn't require it. I've checked a few places on the french wikipedia, and that seems to be the case, though I don't remember from my french classes the logic for it. Life in a country that doesn't make any sense (check the 'multinational' discussion on the Canada talk page sometime if you want more). 09:31, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
 
If the template is not actually the same as the other template noted, please consider putting a note on the template's page explaining how this one is different so as to avoid any future mistakes.
==Merge proposal==
Re: [[United Colonies of Vancouver Island and British Columbia]] --> [[Colony of British Columbia]]. See the Talk page of the latter. Cheers! [[User:Fishhead64|Fishhead64]] 21:15, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
 
If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may '''contest the nomination''' by [[:Template:Historical geographic regions of British Columbia|visiting the page]] and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with [[Wikipedia:List of policies|Wikipedia's policies and guidelines]]. If the page is deleted, and you wish to retrieve the deleted material for future reference or improvement, then please contact the {{Querylink|Special:Log|qs=type=delete&page=Template%3AHistorical+geographic+regions+of+British+Columbia|deleting administrator}}, or if you have already done so, you can place a request [[WP:RFUD|here]]. <!-- Template:Db-t3-notice --><!-- Template:Db-csd-notice-custom --> [[User:Ponderosapine210|Ponderosapine210]] ([[User talk:Ponderosapine210|talk]]) 02:30, 5 October 2020 (UTC)
== Stanley Park is #1, not #16 ==
 
== I have sent you a note about a page you started ==
Bobbany and Skokum - I believe my latest version is shorter, more precise, and more up to the point. It is not important to point out data that Stanley Park is 16th in the place. That's simply not true. I mean, the agency selected ugly Mexican park to be #1 in the world, and that park doesn't even have 1/3 of features and beauty of Stanley Park. The agency has discredited itself and we should not quote it. How can one put ugly, dirty, Mexican park on #1 place and Stanley Park on the 16th place? It's ridicolous. I strongly oppose information from discredited agencies to be included into Stanley Park article. I've been in Mexico and seen the ugly dirty park they selected as "#1 Park in the World", and it can't even be compared with our Stanley Park. Don't include that info, as by doing that - you are only insulting the most beautiful park in the Universe (Stanley Park!). [[User:Bosniak|Bosniak]] 06:39, 24 December 2006 (UTC)
 
Hello, Skookum1
==[[Hollywood North]]==
Hey, do you have any references to the facts you mentioned on the talk page, it would be great to add it, but at this point I want to have a reference for everything seeing how it could be a topic of argument and difference of opinion. [[User:Mkdw|<span style="font-size: 13px arial; color: #3366FF;">Mkdw</span>]][[User talk:Mkdw|<sup>''talk''</sup>]] 01:44, 25 December 2006 (UTC)
 
Thank you for creating [[List of waterfalls of British Columbia]].
== BC Legislature Raids issues ==
 
[[User:Onel5969]], while examining this page as a part of our [[WP:NPP|page curation process]], had the following comments:
Sorry. To be honest, I'm not sure I'd never heard of the raids before, and if I had, this (I'd agree, poor) article didn't do much to refresh my memory. Kind of strange, since I was in Victoria at the time, but I didn't have a TV at the time, and I'm not generally interested in political corruption scandals. Hope you figure something out. Play nice. -- [[User:Themightyquill|TheMightyQuill]] 06:09, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
:I remember the raids, but haven't followed the story, so I couldn't jump in there without a bit of legwork on the subject. This is the kind of very partisan article that sucks up a lot of energy on Wikipedia because it tends toward bad faith editing by politicos (see [[Talk:Michael Ignatieff]] for another painful example). Since this article is User:IWin4U's only contribution, you're right, it is suspect, but I've seen it mentioned that a benefit for editors to register on Wikipedia is that their IP addy's become hidden, so you'd probably have to take it up with the powers that be if you want to go down that road, perhaps something like [[WP:ANI]]. Chances are though, that it'd be more prudent to just keep an eye on the article. [[User:Bobanny|Bobanny]] 06:32, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
 
{{Bq|1=Your split broke ref links on the former target page.}}
Well, you know me, I waded into the Talk pages and called a few spades shovels, plus visited a few talk pages to find out who these guys were, leaving some spoor of my passage as to "your joining Wikipedia just to delete this one article's contents is a bit low, don't you think?" (see [[User talk:RyanAirman]]) or just a simple "who the hell are you anyway?" (not in those words see [[User:MmeLébrun]]. I did some digging in the histories and found lots of BIG sections that were deleted by these guys, and some of the same names show up on [[Mark Marissen]] and [[Erik Bornmann]], or people/edits like them, with big missing blocks of info once again (somebody deleted [[Talk:Erik Bornman]]'s contents entirely over the holidays); I get the impression that there were once Dave Basi and Aneal Virk articles but that they've been deleted; there ''should'' be articles on them. Anyway, digging around tonight in the edit histories I found all kinds of stuff that should be restored but I wanted an admin's say-so, or at least "a collective" of regular editors; and who knows maybe this stuff does have to be run through the legal department of Wikipedia, but it's the first I've heard of a political bio encountering libel chill; edit wars are common enough, but usually for more high-profile politicians....there's similar partisan fuddling on the BC Liberal Party page, esp. its history section, as in the bios of various Premiers (also BC Conservative Party, and definitely on Socred and NDP bio/history pages it's all very POV/euhemerized).[[User:Skookum1|Skookum1]] 09:54, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
::Aside from the politicos working on this, remember that Wikipedia generally is very squeamish about anything that could lead to legal trouble, especially "biographies of living persons." Tielemen's blog is as likely to get removed by a non-interested party in this as anyone just because it is a blog, and opinion pieces in newspapers can be challenged as non-reliable sources til the cows come home even though the papers are normally considered 'reliable' for non-contentious articles, thus ensuring that the articles remain unstable. [[User:Bobanny|Bobanny]] 15:20, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
I've established that [[User:rascalpatrol]] is in fact Erik Bornmann himself, and he has repeatedly vandalized both the article about him ''and'' the talk page by deleting posts by other editors (including my own from last night, which I just restored). I think I'm going to have to [[WP:ANI]] him, plus Omar Jack, JJGardiner and others who have fiddled with these pages (Omar Jack and others, if you look at their User Contributions, have ONLY posted on the Erik Bornmann article; similar one-article contributors can be found in the BC ledge raids article and talk page and their histories.[[User:Skookum1|Skookum1]] 20:53, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
 
To reply, leave a comment here and begin it with {{code|<nowiki>{{Re|</nowiki>Onel5969<nowiki>}}</nowiki>}}. Please remember to sign your reply with {{code|<nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>}} .
==League v. Party==
I was aware of the name change that the party underwent, but decided that the sacrifice of accuracy for the sake of expediency was justified here, since "Party" is the name by which the movement was known for almost its entire ascendency in the Province. It's a judgement call, but that sort of detail could perhaps be best explicated in the [[British Columbia Social Credit Party]] article, if it is not already. As it stood, it was a red link. [[User:Fishhead64|Fishhead64]] 07:29, 28 December 2006 (UTC)
 
<small>(Message delivered via the [[Wikipedia:Page Curation/Help|Page Curation]] tool, on behalf of the reviewer.)</small><!-- Template:Sentnote-NPF -->
==[[User talk:Rascalpatrol]]==
Leave his Talk page alone. You have no say as to what he can or can not keep on his page. [[User:Zoe]]|[[User talk:Zoe|(talk)]] 19:24, 28 December 2006 (UTC)
 
[[User:onel5969|'''<span style="color:#536895;">Onel</span><span style="color:#ffb300;">5969</span>''']] <sup>[[User talk:Onel5969|<i style="color:blue">TT me</i>]]</sup> 12:41, 1 November 2020 (UTC)
I have blocked you for [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Rascalpatrol&diff=prev&oldid=96981278 this legal threat]. [[User:Zoe]]|[[User talk:Zoe|(talk)]] 19:25, 28 December 2006 (UTC)
 
== RfC - scope and title for the American Revolutionary War article ==
:Oh rejoice. Finally somebody takes action against this guy. He should have been blocked a long time ago. [[User:HongQiGong|Hong Qi Gong]] <small>([[User talk:HongQiGong|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/HongQiGong|Contribs]])</small> 19:32, 28 December 2006 (UTC)
 
I am forwarding this RfC notice to you, along with the ongoing Discussion Summary Chart because you are listed as a <u>British Empire Project</u> member interested in <u>colonial or military history</u>. The RfC and discussion is found at [[Talk:American Revolutionary War]]. Please feel free to delete this notice if it does not fit your current interests. - [[User:TheVirginiaHistorian|TheVirginiaHistorian]] ([[User talk:TheVirginiaHistorian|talk]]) 11:18, 6 December 2020 (UTC)
:For what it's worth, I think [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Rascalpatrol&diff=96803378&oldid=96788698 this] is the precise diff of the reason Zoe blocked. Regards, [[User talk:BenAveling|Ben Aveling]] 07:44, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
 
<div class="floatleft" style="margin-bottom:0">[[File:Ambox warning orange.svg|48px|alt=|link=]]</div>'''[[:American Revolutionary War]]''', which is within the scope of this WikiProject, has an RFC for value. A discussion is taking place. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments on the '''[[ Talk:American Revolutionary War#RfC - Which of two (2) titles should be chosen to define the scope of the existing article American Revolutionary War? |discussion page]]'''.<!-- Template:rfc-notify--> Thank you. [[User:TheVirginiaHistorian|TheVirginiaHistorian]] ([[User talk:TheVirginiaHistorian|talk]]) 23:23, 4 December 2020 (UTC)
As I explained here: [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents&diff=prev&oldid=97265629],I doubt Skookum1 has made a legal threat. Please consider unblocking him, or at least have a discussion with him about it that doesn't presume he's guilty. FWIW, I've run into this guy a few times on geography articles and he's made valuable contributions. <s>Let's try not to lose him.</s> [[User:Clayoquot|Kla'quot]] 05:56, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
:I've "run into this guy a few times" also and he's made some very borderline racist comments. Not to mention he incessantly soapboxes in a lot of Talk pages, and add a lot of inane inline comments in articles he has edited in the past. Definitely should be kept blocked. [[User:HongQiGong|Hong Qi Gong]] <small>([[User talk:HongQiGong|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/HongQiGong|Contribs]])</small> 06:09, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
::OK, that kind of thing is definitely a concern (if true), but the current block is for legal threats. If he hasn't made any, the block should be lifted. I don't have the big picture of the disputes he's been in, so I have no opinion on whether he should be blocked for the other things. [[User:Clayoquot|Kla'quot]] 06:21, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
:::Well, whatever, I'm just glad he's been blocked. [[User:HongQiGong|Hong Qi Gong]] <small>([[User talk:HongQiGong|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/HongQiGong|Contribs]])</small> 07:07, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
::::Not totally, Hong. Found your comments here amusing and your biased reversions/deletions at the various articles you've finally found the courage to re-revise in my absence, but I had bigger fish to fry. Freedom of speech and all that; you might try it sometime.[[User:Skookum1|Skookum1]] 23:02, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
:::::PS Governor Douglas really did issue edicts and reprimands to miners concerning equal treatment for Chinese gold miners. Read some BC history sometime instead of just pontificating on it from political pamphlets.[[User:Skookum1|Skookum1]] 23:07, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
::::::I have had assistance from Skookum1 several times on work I have done and have observed a wide range of valuable contributions that he has made about British Columbia. His useful and extensive work often digs into sources that are beyond what is easily available. It would be a great loss if he was prevented from continuing this work. The block is based on a breach of [[Wikipedia:No legal threats]]. I support removal of the block because the comments are not a threat at all and because they are not a threat of legal action (the Law Society is only a regulatory body, not a court). The editor's remarks made were part of a series of vigorously expressed comments made advancing a concern that edits are being made to a biographical article inappropriately. It is clear from the comments that the editor's intent was that bias ought not to be a basis for deletion of content. His concern is about whether the information presented is being manipulated. It would be a shame if his vigour of expression in defence of the integrity of our work becomes a basis for him to be excluded. At [[Wikipedia:Blocking policy]] I see "Users who make threats, whether legal, personal, or professional, that in any way are seen as an attempt to intimidate another user may be blocked without warning. If a warning is desirable, the <nowiki>{{npa6}}</nowiki> template can be used. Users who make severe threats can be blocked indefinitely." If there is to be a block, it ought to be of short duration. The sort of "severe threat" contemplated by the policy is beyond anything that can be found in Skookum1's comments. There are several unsupported negative allegations made by others in this section that have no bearing on the basis for this block. Those comments should be ignored. Any decision about whether to block a user, particularly a user of this value, should be based on the actual policy and unsupported negative opinions should have no bearing on that decision. [[User:KenWalker|KenWalker]] | [[User talk:KenWalker|Talk]] 04:38, 1 January 2007 (UTC) By the way, in case anyone gets the idea I am the lawyer that Skookum1 refers to in his note, I am not. [[User:KenWalker|KenWalker]] | [[User talk:KenWalker|Talk]] 06:03, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
 
{| class="wikitable" width="auto"
==Unblock statement==
|+ Which title best defines the SCOPE for the [[American Revolutionary War]]?</br>discussion summarized by <small>[[User:TheVirginiaHistorian|TheVirginiaHistorian]] ([[User talk:TheVirginiaHistorian|talk]]) 09:13, 6 December 2020 (UTC)</small>
!A. "American Revolutionary War”
!B. "War of the American Revolution"
|-
| '''continuity''' - used at this WP article and sister articles for 19 years</br>- '''scope''' - British-American insurrection in continental North America</br>- '''participants''' British & US Congress with respective allies, auxiliaries & combatants</br>- '''war aims''' </br>-- <u>Brit</u>: maintain [[First British Empire]] with mercantile system</br>-- <u>US</u>: independence, British evacuation, territory to Mississippi-navigation, Newfoundland Banks - fish & cure</br>- '''results''' - US independence & republic; Britain the biggest US trade partner & finances US expanding business & Treasury</br>- '''reliable scholarly reference''' Britannica for the general reader</br>- '''prominent adherents''' - all 15 history Pulitzer winner scholars on the topic
|'''modern update''' - uses 'vast majority of sources' found in a browser search</br>- '''scope''' - British-American insurrection in continental North America, spread to Anglo-Bourbon (Fr.&Sp.) War-across worldwide empires, [[Fourth Anglo-Dutch War]]-North Atlantic, [[Second Mysore War]]-Indian subcontinent & Ocean</br>- '''participants''' British & US Congress, France, Spain, Dutch Republic, Kingdom of Mysore </br>- '''war aims''' </br>-- <u>Brit</u>: maintain [[First British Empire]] with mercantile system</br>-- <u>US</u> independence, British evacuation, territory to Mississippi-navigation, Newfoundland Banks - fish & cure</br>-- <u>Bourbons</u>: Gibraltar, Jamaica, Majorca, expand Gambia trade, expand India trade</br>-- <u>Dutch</u> - free trade with North America & Caribbean</br>-- <u>Mysore</u> wider east-Indian sub-continent sphere of influenced</br>'''results''' - [[Second British Empire]], Spanish Majorca, French Gambia, further decline of Dutch Republic </br>- '''reliable scholarly reference''' [world military dictionary] for the military specialist</br>- '''prominent adherents''' - Michael Clodfelter, more to follow
|}
== "Comox people/temp" listed at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|Redirects for discussion]] ==
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A discussion is taking place to address the redirect [[:Comox people/temp]]. The discussion will occur at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2021 February 5#Comox people/temp]] until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. <!-- from Template:RFDNote --> [[User:1234qwer1234qwer4|𝟙𝟤𝟯𝟺𝐪𝑤𝒆𝓇𝟷𝟮𝟥𝟜𝓺𝔴𝕖𝖗𝟰]] ([[User talk:1234qwer1234qwer4|𝗍𝗮𝘭𝙠]]) 07:16, 5 February 2021 (UTC)
== [[Wikipedia:Proposed deletion|Proposed deletion]] of [[:Tsk'weylecw'mc]] ==
[[File:Ambox warning yellow.svg|left|link=|alt=Notice|48px|]]
 
The article [[:Tsk'weylecw'mc]] has been [[Wikipedia:Proposed deletion|proposed for deletion]]&#32;because of the following concern:
{{unblock reviewed|1=Here is my position. I cannot apologize for something I did not do, which was not a legal threat, not even a threat of any kind. Etc. I am appealing this block because I made NO legal threat. I apologize if my suggestion that the Law Society of Upper Canada, the bar association for the province of Ontario, will find the censorship of the Bornmann article of interest in their hearings on Mr. Bornmann's bar application. But as I cannot know that rascalpatrol is Mr. Bornmann, who can it be that I threatened rascalpatrol? I indicated that (non-legal, albeit professional) proceedings against Mr. Bornmann would be of interest to the Law Society of Upper Canada. I repeat, I made no legal threat and have never done such on Wikipedia and know better than to do things like that at all (I'm the type that would take court action before speaking about doing so, for one thing...). I made a simple comment, that as observed by a lawyer friend of mine, the censorship and vandalism of the Bornmann page may be of interest to the LSUC. If that's a threat, then I retract it, as it wasn't meant that way. But I will not apologize for something I did not do - because in my mind it was not a threat, just an observation - and cannot promise not to do something again that I didn't do in the first place. The issues concerning the slack definitions and loosely-defined policies here are further to this and I could explore the arguments posed over them, but the central point remains: I did not make a threat, period, and deserved no block. This block has been unfair and unjust, and I protest it. I'm not going to demand an apology, but I certainly feel I deserve one.Skookum1 23:02, 31 December 2006 (UTC)|decline=While you did not claim to be pursuing a lawsuit, your comments were sufficiently uncivil as to justify a block. Certainly you violated the spirit of [[WP:LEGAL]] if not necessary the letter. I cannot support an unblock at this time. However, if you request another unblock and indicate that you have read [[WP:CIVIL]] and understand how to resolve disputes, I would not object to another admin unblocking you. -- [[User:Yamla|Yamla]] 00:44, 1 January 2007 (UTC)}}
<blockquote>'''Does not pass [[WP:V]], zero sources found'''</blockquote>
 
While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, pages may be [[WP:DEL#REASON|deleted for any of several reasons]].
==Retraction==
I have been blocked as a result of
[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Rascalpatrol&diff=prev&oldid=96981278 these comments.] Although I did not intend to convey any legal threat,
I understand that [[User:Zoe]] has construed my comments as a threat to
use outside authority. That was not my intent and I regret making
comments which could be construed in that way. In the future, I will
avoid making comments which may be construed as a threat to invoke
outside legal authority to resolve editing disputes. I have also read WP:CIVIL and WP:Legal and have and will abide by their guidelines.[[User:Skookum1|Skookum1]] 10:17, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
 
You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{Tlc|proposed deletion/dated}} notice, but please explain why in your [[Help:edit summary|edit summary]] or on [[Talk:Tsk&#39;weylecw&#39;mc|the article's talk page]].
:I'll let Zoe know. Regards, [[User talk:BenAveling|Ben Aveling]] 10:51, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
 
Please consider improving the page to address the issues raised. Removing {{Tlc|proposed deletion/dated}} will stop the [[Wikipedia:Proposed deletion|proposed deletion process]], but other [[Wikipedia:deletion process|deletion process]]es exist. In particular, the [[Wikipedia:Criteria for speedy deletion|speedy deletion]] process can result in deletion without discussion, and [[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion|articles for deletion]] allows discussion to reach [[Wikipedia:Consensus|consensus]] for deletion.<!-- Template:Proposed deletion notify --> [[User:Rusf10|Rusf10]] ([[User talk:Rusf10|talk]]) 04:01, 13 May 2021 (UTC)
:Thank you. I have unblocked you. [[User:Zoe]]|[[User talk:Zoe|(talk)]] 20:43, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
== Nomination for deletion of [[:Template:LegislatureSeats]] ==
[[File:Ambox warning blue.svg|30px|link=]][[:Template:LegislatureSeats]] has been [[Wikipedia:Templates for discussion|nominated for deletion]]. You are invited to comment on the discussion at [[Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2021 December 28#Template:LegislatureSeats|the entry on the Templates for discussion page]].<!--Template:Tfdnotice--> – [[User:Jonesey95|Jonesey95]] ([[User talk:Jonesey95|talk]]) 23:32, 28 December 2021 (UTC)
== Nomination for deletion of [[:Template:CanLeg1]] ==
[[File:Ambox warning blue.svg|30px|link=]][[:Template:CanLeg1]] has been [[Wikipedia:Templates for discussion|nominated for deletion]]. You are invited to comment on the discussion at [[Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2021 December 30#Template:CanLeg1|the entry on the Templates for discussion page]].<!--Template:Tfdnotice--> [[User:Q28|Q28]] ([[User talk:Q28|talk]]) 02:09, 30 December 2021 (UTC)
==[[Wikipedia:Criteria for speedy deletion|Speedy deletion]] nomination of [[:Category:Regional districts of the British Columbia Coast]]==
[[File:Ambox warning pn.svg|48px|left|alt=|link=]]
 
A tag has been placed on [[:Category:Regional districts of the British Columbia Coast]] indicating that it is currently empty, and is not a [[:Category:Disambiguation categories|disambiguation category]], a [[:Category:Wikipedia soft redirected categories|category redirect]], a [[:Category:Wikipedia featured topics categories|featured topics category]], under discussion at [[Wikipedia:Categories for discussion|Categories for discussion]], or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion. If it remains empty for seven days or more, it may be deleted under [[WP:CSD#C1|section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion]].
==Your email Re [[Erik Bornmann]]==
You wrote:
:I can't post to this right now because I'm still fighting what I see as an unfair and highly :politically partial block; just wanted to comment on your post about the shameless self-promotion: :that's only because rascalpatrol and Randy3 et al. have been allowed to run roughshod over this :article; if the content they deleted - all of it valid - were restored, the article is very relevant :and concerns high-stakes public affairs. BTW if rascalpatrol is Bornmann, pls note the length of :his self-laudatory post here, which precedes yours, vis a vis the "shameless self-promotion" thing. :This article should be sent to Edit Wars or Arbitration and be Protected, and the SPAs who have been :controlling it, and brow-beating anyone who tries to fix it, should be censured much more severely :than I have been....
 
If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason you may '''contest the nomination''' by [[:Category:Regional districts of the British Columbia Coast|visiting the page]] and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself. <!-- Template:Db-catempty-notice --> [[User:Qwerfjkl|<span style="background:#1d9ffc; color:white; padding:5px; box-shadow:darkgray 2px 2px 2px;">Qwerfjkl</span>]][[User talk:Qwerfjkl|<span style="background:#79c0f2;color:white; padding:2px; box-shadow:darkgray 2px 2px 2px;">talk</span>]] 16:17, 10 January 2022 (UTC)
Reply:
==[[Wikipedia:Criteria for speedy deletion|Speedy deletion]] nomination of [[:Category:Regional districts of the British Columbia Interior]]==
I'm sorry, but I cannot agree with you on that. Even looking at the history, the article doesn't show why he deserves an article. [[User:GreenJoe|GreenJoe]] 04:21, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
[[File:Ambox warning pn.svg|48px|left|alt=|link=]]
 
A tag has been placed on [[:Category:Regional districts of the British Columbia Interior]] indicating that it is currently empty, and is not a [[:Category:Disambiguation categories|disambiguation category]], a [[:Category:Wikipedia soft redirected categories|category redirect]], a [[:Category:Wikipedia featured topics categories|featured topics category]], under discussion at [[Wikipedia:Categories for discussion|Categories for discussion]], or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion. If it remains empty for seven days or more, it may be deleted under [[WP:CSD#C1|section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion]].
:Hm. You did read [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk%3AErik_Bornmann&diff=96915014&oldid=96861110 the full set of restored but now re-deleted materials] didn't you? I guess I'll have to lay out in point form why this case is highly-relevant to the public interest, and why the separate players throughout it each should have their own page (but not tonight; it's New Years and I'm gonna go play some tunes in the park...and eat, drink and otherwise be merry). As Domperignon, whoever he is, long ago noted, he'd only incidentally created this page first and was going to make the Basi and Virk pages and all the ancillary pages that would focus on [[BC Legislature Raids]], but he was accused of singling Bornmann out and, as others have also been, and me by imputation, that people trying to represent the full story are agents of "those criminaly charged" (sic), namely Basi and Virk, and THAT is false, uncivil, and all kinds of Wikicrimes in one breath. That it's been emasculated to a (rather pathetic) vanity article in order to help cover-up a major and breaking political scandal the subject is involved in just doesn't seem right; and if it's not on the radar in T.O. yet it soon will be as the trial will be opening up in coming weeks and Mr. Bornmann is a star witness - ''the'' star witness. He's not just an articling student seeking to promote himself; the case he's involved in, and his activities in relation to it, are a matter of public interest. Not prurient interest, but ''the'' public interest.[[User:Skookum1|Skookum1]] 04:43, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
 
If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason you may '''contest the nomination''' by [[:Category:Regional districts of the British Columbia Interior|visiting the page]] and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself. <!-- Template:Db-catempty-notice --> [[User:Qwerfjkl|<span style="background:#1d9ffc; color:white; padding:5px; box-shadow:darkgray 2px 2px 2px;">Qwerfjkl</span>]][[User talk:Qwerfjkl|<span style="background:#79c0f2;color:white; padding:2px; box-shadow:darkgray 2px 2px 2px;">talk</span>]] 16:17, 10 January 2022 (UTC)
:I should postscript that with the comment that articles on the other principals in the case are needed, and will be just as lengthy/complex (as this one would be if it had all the facts/news coverage), in the same way as any political or criminal biography; having all their stories crammed onto the BC Ledge Raids page just won't fit, and would make that page unwieldy (right now it's still emasculated too, although some people have been trying to re-add material attacked by the Bornmann camp previously...(curiously many of them from ON and QC IP addresses or otherwise indicated as being from outside BC....); I'm not Skootum3, btw, whoever that is; a tribute username I suppose but definitely not me in case anybody claims it is ;-| [[User:Skookum1|Skookum1]] 04:50, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
== [[Wikipedia:Proposed deletion|Proposed deletion]] of [[:List of land districts of British Columbia]] ==
[[File:Ambox warning yellow.svg|left|link=|alt=Notice|48px|]]
 
The article [[:List of land districts of British Columbia]] has been [[Wikipedia:Proposed deletion|proposed for deletion]]&#32;because of the following concern:
== Welcome back ==
<blockquote>'''This is a list of a trivial, non-notable geographic division.'''</blockquote>
 
While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, pages may be [[WP:DEL#REASON|deleted for any of several reasons]].
You've handled this with class and integrity. Welcome back, and Happy New Year! [[User:Clayoquot|Kla'quot]] 21:15, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
 
You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{Tlc|proposed deletion/dated}} notice, but please explain why in your [[Help:edit summary|edit summary]] or on [[Talk:List of land districts of British Columbia|the article's talk page]].
:Hope yer not too discouraged. [[User:HighInBC|HighInBC]]<small> <sup>(Need help? [[User_talk:HighInBC|Ask me]])</sup></small> 22:15, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
 
Please consider improving the page to address the issues raised. Removing {{Tlc|proposed deletion/dated}} will stop the [[Wikipedia:Proposed deletion|proposed deletion process]], but other [[Wikipedia:deletion process|deletion process]]es exist. In particular, the [[Wikipedia:Criteria for speedy deletion|speedy deletion]] process can result in deletion without discussion, and [[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion|articles for deletion]] allows discussion to reach [[Wikipedia:Consensus|consensus]] for deletion.<!-- Template:Proposed deletion notify --> [[User:Hwy43|Hwy43]] ([[User talk:Hwy43|talk]]) 05:48, 6 February 2022 (UTC)
::Stuck to my guns, although not with as much fire and brimstone as my own personal preference ;-) "Aggressive", no - irascible, crotchety, outspoken, bombastic yes, aggressive no..."assertive" and "loquacious" in combination some people take as aggression, in my experience. My absence from the AFD on [[Erik Bornmann]] has been a pain, but I'm holding off as I'm investigating the Edit War, Censorship and other protocols before weighing in there. For most of today, to get myself re-tuned in to why I'm on Wiki, I'm catching up on various history articles and other stuff that need doing/fixing/referencing/whatever.....[[User:Skookum1|Skookum1]] 22:20, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
== [[Wikipedia:Proposed deletion|Proposed deletion]] of [[:List of forest regions and districts of British Columbia]] ==
[[File:Ambox warning yellow.svg|left|link=|alt=Notice|48px|]]
 
The article [[:List of forest regions and districts of British Columbia]] has been [[Wikipedia:Proposed deletion|proposed for deletion]]&#32;because of the following concern:
I have to agree, you did handle it well. Just try not to let POV pushers take you to extreme places. [[User:Zoe]]|[[User talk:Zoe|(talk)]] 22:27, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
<blockquote>'''This is a list of a trivial, non-notable geographic division.'''</blockquote>
 
While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, pages may be [[WP:DEL#REASON|deleted for any of several reasons]].
Thank you. But I'm asking you now to please take a serious look at the various threats and allegations and vandalism in the history of [[Erik Bornmann]], and to review the circumstances of the AFD, which in real-world terms is having the effect of becoming complicit in an emerging/growing cover-up of the whole affair; the Wiki pillars of not-censorship and of freedom of expression are important to consider here; discussion of deleting a censored article when no effort has been made to review the charges of censorship/manipulation does not seem like correct process; shouldn't this have gone to Edit Wars or an arbitration/mediation channel before consideration of dumping the bored-out "neutralized" article was proposed? Remember, this is not just a personal c.v., it's a component of a very large and growing public scandal/court case concerning the public interest; and rascalpatrol's claim that the page was the work of people "out to discredit Mr. Bornmann" and that they were allies of "those criminaly charged" is entirely false and misleading, and more of a conspiracy theory than he and his supporters claim constitutes the public discussion of the scandal (in the media, blogs, all of which they've censored here). Where's the appropriate Wiki forum to discuss censorship and/or politically-volatile article debates? Remember, I'm looking for an NPOV account of all this, not Bornmann-bashing; if there's nice things to say about Mr. Bornmann that are encyclopedic in nature they can by all means be in the article; but pretending he has had no role in things admitted to the police or presented as evidence in court, or that discussion of those well-known materials is going to somehow discredit him as the Crown's star witness, is a non-starter. If you haven't read the most recent post by Robin Matthews on the [http://bctrialofbasi-virk.blogspot.com/ BC Mary blog], please do so, even if you're not Canadian/from BC, and you'll get an idea of why I think the issue of a cover-up here is very valid and not a "conspiracy theory". The allegation that I am in league with the Basi-Virk camp ("those criminaly charged") also strikes me as something approaching a personal attack, or something to that effect.[[User:Skookum1|Skookum1]] 22:42, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
 
You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{Tlc|proposed deletion/dated}} notice, but please explain why in your [[Help:edit summary|edit summary]] or on [[Talk:List of forest regions and districts of British Columbia|the article's talk page]].
:If you can provide [[WP:RWS|reliable sources]] for your claims, please do so. [[User:Zoe]]|[[User talk:Zoe|(talk)]] 22:56, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
::Do you mean the "conspiracy theory/cover-up", whether the material is public-interest or not, or a compilation of instances of threats/vandalism? Or all of thte above. [[WP:RWS]] goes nowhere behind "reliable sources"; should that be [[WP:RS]]??[[User:Skookum1|Skookum1]] 23:00, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
 
Please consider improving the page to address the issues raised. Removing {{Tlc|proposed deletion/dated}} will stop the [[Wikipedia:Proposed deletion|proposed deletion process]], but other [[Wikipedia:deletion process|deletion process]]es exist. In particular, the [[Wikipedia:Criteria for speedy deletion|speedy deletion]] process can result in deletion without discussion, and [[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion|articles for deletion]] allows discussion to reach [[Wikipedia:Consensus|consensus]] for deletion.<!-- Template:Proposed deletion notify --> [[User:Hwy43|Hwy43]] ([[User talk:Hwy43|talk]]) 05:49, 6 February 2022 (UTC)
== BC History, etc. ==
== [[Wikipedia:Proposed deletion|Proposed deletion]] of [[:List of Ministry of Environment Regions of British Columbia]] ==
[[File:Ambox warning yellow.svg|left|link=|alt=Notice|48px|]]
 
The article [[:List of Ministry of Environment Regions of British Columbia]] has been [[Wikipedia:Proposed deletion|proposed for deletion]]&#32;because of the following concern:
Well, it looks like you've had your hands full - but anything you can add to this little [[History of the west coast of North America]] project would be great. Even just clearing up the perennial confusion about the [[Nootka Convention]] would be great. There was a lot of unreported and scattered information about those Spanish explorations and it was fun to pull it together (almost done).
<blockquote>'''This is a list of a trivial, non-notable geographic division.'''</blockquote>
 
While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, pages may be [[WP:DEL#REASON|deleted for any of several reasons]].
About that 1540 map, what was interesting was that Japan and China were so close (just over the horizon!). There are better images of the Strait of Anian, but I haven't found any better that show Japan and China like that . . . if you've got better, let's see it!
 
You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{Tlc|proposed deletion/dated}} notice, but please explain why in your [[Help:edit summary|edit summary]] or on [[Talk:List of Ministry of Environment Regions of British Columbia|the article's talk page]].
All the best, [[User:NorCalHistory|NorCalHistory]] 23:24, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
 
Please consider improving the page to address the issues raised. Removing {{Tlc|proposed deletion/dated}} will stop the [[Wikipedia:Proposed deletion|proposed deletion process]], but other [[Wikipedia:deletion process|deletion process]]es exist. In particular, the [[Wikipedia:Criteria for speedy deletion|speedy deletion]] process can result in deletion without discussion, and [[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion|articles for deletion]] allows discussion to reach [[Wikipedia:Consensus|consensus]] for deletion.<!-- Template:Proposed deletion notify --> [[User:Hwy43|Hwy43]] ([[User talk:Hwy43|talk]]) 05:50, 6 February 2022 (UTC)
:Believe me, I'd rather all this political nonsense hadn't surfaced, but ya gotta do what ya gotta do. It's like discovering that Whitewater or Watergate articles had been heavily "neutralized" and been blocked for taking on the forces who'd done it....I'd rather just be doing my history articles/research but "you know me", if I see something I know is wrong I gotta do something about it (sooner or later). I'll try and sort out the Nootka Conventions - Pethick's is one of the main books on this, but it's such a tricky diplomatic-language thing that it's very subtle; most American and Canadian sources think that the Spanish gave up their claims to the Coast, but that's not the case; likewise there was no parity between Meares' shack and the Spanish presidio, Santa Cruz de Nuca, and the real spoiler in the equation was [[Maquinna]] who sold rights to each of them ;-) (hey, a buck's a buck...or in this case a flintlock I suppose...). I've seen the Cipangu map before; but there are other maps which shown Bergi and Cibola as well as Anian; there's also the apocryphal maps showing "Le Mer de l'Ouest" and Maldonado's/de Fonte's versions of the Northwest Passage, and more....a map for this page, or one on the Marine Fur Trade, showing the triangular route of the fur trade (NW Coast, Canton, Hawaii, sort of) will eventually be a good thing; but you'd have to read Pethick's ''First Voyages to the Northwest Coast'' to realize why.[[User:Skookum1|Skookum1]] 23:31, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
== Nomination for deletion of [[:Template:Historical geographic regions of British Columbia]] ==
[[File:Ambox warning blue.svg|30px|link=]][[:Template:Historical geographic regions of British Columbia]] has been [[Wikipedia:Templates for discussion|nominated for deletion]]. You are invited to comment on the discussion at [[Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2022 February 14#Template:Historical geographic regions of British Columbia|the entry on the Templates for discussion page]].<!--Template:Tfdnotice--> [[User:Nigej|Nigej]] ([[User talk:Nigej|talk]]) 19:10, 14 February 2022 (UTC)
 
== [[Wikipedia:Proposed deletion|Proposed deletion]] of [[:Hwlitsum First Nation]] ==
==Bornmann redux==
[[File:Ambox warning yellow.svg|left|link=|alt=Notice|48px|]]
Thank you for your note. I admit that I have a deletionist bone in my body (I won't say which one - lol), and am especially wary about biographies and ''especially especially'' wary of biographies of living people. I am not persuaded of his notability, although I appreciate your efforts in this respect. As I noted in my vote, I believe that this chap could be adequately discussed in the BC Lege raid article, which at the moment is a touch brief and underdeveloped. I know that backroom movers and shakers rarely get the attention of their frontmen, the politicians, but biographies should '''not''' be written on folks who ''should be'' notable but rather those who ''are''. As you rightly point out, Gaglardi and Bonner were notable precisely because they were in the public eye as cabinet ministers and corporate executives. Bornmann is not in the public eye to any significant extent. [[User:Fishhead64|Fishhead64]] 01:05, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
 
The article [[:Hwlitsum First Nation]] has been [[Wikipedia:Proposed deletion|proposed for deletion]]&#32;because of the following concern:
==Hollywood North==
<blockquote>'''This is not a bona fide First Nation, but what are called "Pretendians", this was confirmed in this court case: https://words.usask.ca/nativelaw/2019/06/27/hwlitsum-first-nation-v-canada-ag-2018-bcca-276/ . Additionally the article is a mess, with numerous typos, spelling mistakes, errors in fact - all relying on a single source who they hired as an expert witness in the court case they lost. This is not a real First Nation, but are hobbyists using wikipedia to live out live out their fantasy.'''</blockquote>
All the movies and television shows I've added to the article [[Hollywood North]] I took from the BC Film Commission list. You can decide whether you want to break them into a BC and Vancouver list. So far the article has developed to talk about BC and Vancouver as the main reference to Hollywood North, so it may not be needed. But up to you. As for the categories, you might be able to just [[:Category:Film and Television in Vancouver]] as a more practical answer. [[User:Mkdw|<span style="font-size: 13px arial; color: #3366FF;">Mkdw</span>]][[User talk:Mkdw|<sup>''talk''</sup>]] 02:58, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
 
While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, pages may be [[WP:DEL#REASON|deleted for any of several reasons]].
:The BC Film Commission list would only be stuff they kicked on; ''Legends of the Fall'' for example would have had Alberta Film Commission, or whatever it's called there; so the BCFC isn't the defining parameter for made-in-Hollywood North/BC but I'll see what I can dig up; there's gotta be a "back cut-off date" somewhere or as I said "vintage productions" like ''McCabe'', ''[[That Cold Day in the Park]]'', ''[[The Groundstar Conspiracy]]'', and ''[[Carnal Knowledge]]'' should all be on the list, which as far as Hollywood North goes they really aren't/werent', though they laid the foundations for what became the phenomenon....how do I create that category btw?[[User:Skookum1|Skookum1]] 03:41, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
 
==[[History of Chinese immigration to Canada]]==
Welcome back Skookum. I've glanced at that article before and just browsed at it again, and it needs a fair bit of work. The points being edit-warred over seem to be details, illustrating larger points maybe, but still details, and it could go back and forth forever as long as there are no citations. I'll take a poke through what I've got when I get a chance, but right now I'm spread a little thin with some other things. Besides being authoritative, I think citing sources also helps to focus editors on the article rather than each other. In the meantime, keep [[WP:3RR]] in mind and play nice. It is on my watchlist now, but I can't say I can contribute much in the near future.[[User:Bobanny|Bobanny]] 08:24, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
===photos===
I put that info on my [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Bobanny#Public_Domain_Photos_in_Canada.2FVancouver user page] as a resource. I left a note on Ken's talk page as well. [[User:Bobanny|Bobanny]] 08:40, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
==Deadman's Island==
The Pauline Johnson story (Legends of Vancouver, available online at Project Gutenberg) is about a bloody battle that took place on Deadman's Island, making it the "Isle of Dead Men." The graveyard thing I think is just commonly assumed to have something to do with the name, and I don't remember if Johnson says what the Squamish word is. With the Geo. Vancouver thing and the 2 islands, it could've been Deadman's because he didn't actually dock, but was met by folks from Whoi Whoi who boated out to where he was, so it's possible that he came further up the inlet. Ironically, he spends hardly any time in his book describing the place named after him, so I think some speculation is required. Some local history goes into detail about this, and the 2 island thing, but I can't remember who, maybe Eric Nicol in ''Vancouver'', or possibly Chuck Davis somewhere. I think a list of Aboriginal place names is a great idea, or maybe just place names generally to tease out the hybrids and variations, like Mathews. (though pre-existing names would probably be more interesting/informative).[[User:Bobanny|Bobanny]] 04:16, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
 
== BC Legislature Raids ==
As we often say, be bold! :) Basically, if you see the uncat tag but the article has a tag, remove it. We have a very large backlog of those, so any help would be appreciated. --[[User:Woohookitty|''Woohookitty'']]<sup>[[User talk:Woohookitty|Woohoo!]]</sup> 07:34, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
 
== Panhandles and other silly things ==
 
Indeed, there is a category for ''everything'' (I've created quite a few in my time...see also [[:Category:Fingers]].) Panhandle Airways, I like that one. Oh goodness I wish I was in Vancouver. Best, Paul [[User:PaulHanson|Paul]] 17:16, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
:Well ok maybe the weather isn't so great (it's actually a nice mild winter here in New York at the moment) but Vancouver is in general pretty awesome. [[User:PaulHanson|Paul]] 17:22, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
 
== [[Ranges of the Canadian Rockies]] ==
 
I haven't been able to de-cypher the mountain range hierarchy from [http://bivouac.com/ Bivuac], and that's why I used the ones at [http://www.peakbagger.com/range.aspx?rid=141 Peakbagger], I just found it easier to understand those. If you have better sources, by all means, modify the list (if you could cite the source, that would be even better). Regarding photos of the Rockies in the Peace Area, I might have some pictures from the mountains between [[Williston Lake]] and [[Graham-Laurier Provincial Park]] ([[Muskwa Ranges]]? SW corner maybe?), as well as some poor highway shots of the foothills from Pink Mountain (east Muskwa/foothills). --[[User:Qyd|Qyd]] 17:39, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
 
:Graham-Laurier is in the Muskwa Ranges, but at their SE end; I just had a look as I hadn't heard of it before and managed to find the [[Northern Rocky Mountains Provincial Park]], which is the main area I was thinking of, and you can see all the new parks in that area at [http://www.muskwa-kechika.com/pdf/2004-2005%20M-KMA%20Annual%20Report.pdf Muskwa-Kechika Management Area Map] - see page 7 for the best map; this pdf is part of http://www.muskwa-kechika.com/ I'm frankly a bit surprised the BC Liberals set aside such a huge area as a park, given their penchant for tearing, ripping, logging, digging, paving; many parks in southern BC as you probably now have had their boundaries changed, or logging/mining allowed in the park, or parks declared during NDP years have been turned back into "Management Areas". The Muskwa-Kechika has a major photobook produced on it, one of the few good ones around; the review I read (haven't seen the book) said the pics were stunning and used some kind of new fractal printing technology which makes the images "bounce" off the page - but of course all that would definitely NOT be public ___domain. Anyway, that map I found on the PDF linked above looks to be a great resource for mapping the parks in that area.
 
:As for Bivouac's mountain hierarchy, I know how to navigate around the tricks that the site-owner has put in to keep people from seeing what used to be free information; each range page used to show its subranges, and major peaks; now you have to pay him dough to see that and it's one reason I quit - the site became hard to navigate (and I won't pay him so can't see the amazing peaklists that the site can compile, and any of the 20,000+ summits I mapped and gave names too have some stupid new naming convention that's completely indecipherable, based on the site-owner's addled notions of prominence as being something relevant as a way to group peaks together; long story. If there's any ranges you need to find let me know and I'll dig them out; I'll post the subgroupings of the [[Coast Mountains]] as defined by bivouac on that article's talk page; a ''caveat'' about Peakbagger, although I'm friendly with those guys, is that they're Americans viewing the Canadian map remotely and don't know the "logic" of the landscape as well, and their divisions are prominence-based to some degree, which again isn't relevant to joe-blow citizen. Their prominence and elevation data ''does'' ''mesh'' with that at bivouac, but again that's a moot point because bivouac's now drawn its doors shut (if I had known he was going to do that I wouldn't have donated so much free time...). But as far as logical areas to subdivide certain areas go, bivouac's usually on-target, unless they've gone back to using Fairley (a noted mountain guidebook) which had all kinds of screwy names; his boundaries more or less made sense, but for the northern part of the Coast Mountains and the bulk of the [[Northern Interior Mountains]] (needs an article, combining/covering Cassiars, Ominecas, Skeenas etc. - Bivouac says BC Interior Mountains, Holland says Interior Mountains) there's no mountain names at all over wide stretches of landscape; only clusters of names here and there in settled/accessible areas. One last thought - I'm pondering what to do with the plateau articles, as they have mountain ranges ''within them'' and in some cases already I've included plateaus and "highlands" as part of the Mountain Range cat as well as the plateau cat; it's the nature of plateaux in BC - they're not necessarily flat, and contain mountains, and sometimes ''are'' mountains (e.g. the [[Thompson Plateau]], though flat "on top", looks pretty mountainous from any pavement in the area...).[[User:Skookum1|Skookum1]] 20:23, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
::Here are some photos I took in that region, not great, but more than nothing. --[[User:Qyd|Qyd]] 21:33, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
<gallery>
Image:Stone Mountains-Muskwa Range.JPG|Stone Mountains seen from across Muskwa River Valley
Image:Muskwa Mountains-Alaska Highway.JPG|Alaska Highway crossing Muskwa Range (possibly Terminal Range?)
Image:Mount Ludington-Muskwa Range.JPG|Possibly Ludingdon Mountain, upper Nabeshe Valley
Image:Mount Gavreau-Muskwa Range.JPG|Possibly Mount Gavreau, upper Nabeshe Valley
</gallery>
:The first picture is for sure across the [[Northern Rocky Mountains Provincial Park]], too bad it's such a poor shot. --[[User:Qyd|Qyd]] 21:43, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
 
== Tuya Range ==
 
No problem, I know a lot of pictures of the volcanoes, but i don't know what license to pick. [[Black Tuskk|Black Tusk]] 1:44, 3 January 2007 (DRR)
 
:I just checked one of the images I donated to Wikipedia - at [[Fraser Canyon]] - and I used <nowiki>{{PD-self}}</nowiki>.[[User:Skookum1|Skookum1]] 20:32, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
 
==Dirty Socks==
I filed a sock report [[Wikipedia:Suspected sock puppets/Rascalpatrol| here]]. There's a backlog there, but we'll see what happens. I didn't vote on the deletion because I'm neutral (seems to me B-Man could be covered in the other article). But that's different from the sleazy politics in this, which should be addressed regardless of what happens to the article.[[User:Bobanny|Bobanny]] 08:41, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
:I don't see the different spelling of Rascalpatrol. You sure? I added those other names in my report, except JGGardiner, who seems to be bonified. If the socks get the boot, there'll still be the regular liberal hacks to contend with, but if it's on the table, it should be easier to deal with. It's also possible that there are more than one user in that cabal mixed in with the socks.[[User:Bobanny|Bobanny]] 09:06, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
::I'm sure, but I erred in thinking it was the same off the AFD, as I just tried it now and it went to the right place ''except'' earlier on it didn't (going to check the edit history of the AFD now, I think...). But his sigs on the talkpage definitely go to "rascalpatorl" = http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Rascalpatorl&action=edit (that's a "copy link" right-click from his sig on the talkpage).[[User:Skookum1|Skookum1]] 09:18, 4 January 2007 (UTC)r
:I also noticed variations on your name while strolling through the edit histories. Was that from typing in manually?[[User:Bobanny|Bobanny]] 09:08, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
 
No, those weren't me, couldn't have been in fact as I was blocked at the time they were made (my ''IP address'' was blocked, and I don't have money for a webcafe to get around it ;-), nor on principle did I want to bother ). I noticed them too: Skootum1 is the one I remember, and there was another one, too, somewhere, Skookum3 I think but w. some variation in spelling. I took them by way of half-flattery, "tribute usernames", but I have no idea who it might have been that did it. Easy for an admin to check, IP-address wise. Other than that you'll just have to take my word. And as you know, I've got lots of words ;-) I haven't tried going to rascalpatrol's page from his edit history stuff; I doubt he could fake that, nor could anyone else; it's his use of sigs that's fake.[[User:Skookum1|Skookum1]] 09:15, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
 
==Thanks==
No worries about the misunderstanding. These things happen. I apologized to rascalpatrol because I made a series of edits before noticing he had made some in the middle of mine and I’d wondered if I’d accidentally removed his edit without even knowing it. I was troubled by the behaviour on the talk page. I thought a simple “keep cool” was enough for a first warning, not wanting to bite the newbies who unfortunately seem to come here more and more thinking that WP is a partisan free-for-all. I was actually hoping that you might ask for some ANI help (which I’d seen you mention on your talk page – I was hoping to tell you to be careful about your confrontation with the SP accounts but was a little late unfortunately). As for Mackenzie, that was my understanding: the older ones are only RH if they were in the British PC (including some non PM’s such as Jimmy Gardiner who was War Services minister in WWII). We actually have a perhaps incomplete list at [[The Right Honourable]] which does not include Mackenzie. parl.gc.ca also has him as only Hon. so I think that is correct. Thanks again. --[[User:JGGardiner|JGGardiner]] 10:33, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
 
:FWIW see [[Wikipedia:Suspected sock puppets/Rascalpatrol]] posted by [[User:Bobanny]], who's abstaining from the AFD but is from BC....and scroll up a bit on this page to the unblock statement and you can see what came of me confronting rascalpatrol of his inuiqities directly ;-). I'm ''back'', and breathing fire, as you can tell. Just curious about your interest in political bios - do you any knowledge of guys like [[Arthur Bunster]], the original MP for [[Vancouver (electoral district)]] (which was Vancouver Island ''sans'' Victoria in those days, as the city hadn't been named, much less founded, yet)? (wow, it's not redlinked anymore...pretty sure I didn't start it so now I'm curious to see what someone else has come up with). One of my favourite characters since I found out about him - an Irish brewer, famed for his tongue and rowdiness, challenged Edmund Blake to fisticuffs on the floor of the House, and outside it too, I think. Been meaning to do a bio on him but I'm too multi-dimensional and have too many topics "on the go" (one look at my User Contributions and you'll see I'm anything but an SPA....).[[User:Skookum1|Skookum1]] 10:39, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
::I had noticed Bobanny's request although I expect it will just confirm the obvious. The only advice that I had intended to say was that sometimes it isn't worth confronting an editor about who they are -- the problem is with the edits, not the user behind the account and all that. You can't really prove anything anyway and run the risk of getting in trouble with admins. Although I am curious to see what comes of it. =) I actually started our little Bunster stub and was a little proud of it. He seems like an interesting character although I don't know much. I created a few stubs for some missing early BC MPs. I had meant to do more but "real life" seems to interrupt. Another one that might interest you is [[Noah Shakespeare]]. We should really have more information about some of those anti-Asian movements from the time and he seems to have been important but I couldn't find all that much information without looking very deeply. --[[User:JGGardiner|JGGardiner]] 10:57, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
Thanks. Wow, that's a lot of material you've got there. A lot of info to sift through. I just filled out a few stubs when I was bored that were requested for all the MPs since the first parliament and started with BC. I don't really know all that much about the issue but had been wondering about it especially when I did the Shakespeare one. I had planned on finishing the MPs. I don't really have any information myself about the other social history but I find it all quite interesting. Maybe if I ever find the time to start writing some articles that would be a great area to work in. It would be great to fill out the Bunster article so if you've got more information on him that's, well, great. I am not always in BC but I am from time to time. I had noticed that you are a night owl, like me. I think that we must have been about the only two Canadians editing so late last night. =) --[[User:JGGardiner|JGGardiner]] 08:34, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
:Oh, Bobanny and Mkdw are up late often enough too, and LoneWolf BC is still out there in the Wikiwoods tonight, I think; butit's only 12:41am here....where are you? And how about that Tompettyfan guy, huh? :-} He's a regular at [[Mark Marissen]] and its talk page; his user contributions are a story in themselves....[[User:Skookum1|Skookum1]] 08:38, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
::I'm in Vancouver. Wikipedia is just one of the windows open in the JGGardiner woods tonight. =) I don't think that I'd seen the Marissen article before. I know that I've seen TPF from the Liberal leadership articles. I tried to trim the endorsement article a bit but eventually gave up. I seem to recall that TPF was one of the editors who I'd assumed was a gung-ho Liberal but I don't remember any problems with him/her there. --[[User:JGGardiner|JGGardiner]] 08:58, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
------[[User:JGGardiner|JGGardiner]] 10:57, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
 
I read through his edits a bit...I think he's MM. "Did I say that?" You're not supposed to identify other users, or accuse them of being someone, in Wikipedia; you'll note that his earliest posts are all about [[Christy Clark]] and his Marissen edits are all way too friendly/p.r. - didn't check the dates re MM's appointment to Dion's campaign but that was coming before the date of announcement anyway....same deal that rascalpatrol maybe/most likely is EB...''"did I say that?"'' (and also the sockpuppets...don't they all sound alike?). Got quite a kick out of TPF accusing me of partisanship; I should have been something about the membership signup thing that "this party is well-known for (as are their rivals the Tories)" but it wasn't the Tories we're talking about here. While I was at the gym I was pondering starting a Dave Basi article just to confound them....but he's another Liberal, ain't he? See Grattan Mall's column on the BC Mary blog (http://bctrialofbasi-virk.blogspot.com/) which, stripped of its POV language, has good source on party machinations in BC. I used to vote Liberal sometimes, and quite frankly would prefer a Dion govt to a Harper one (not that I think much of Dion); last time I voted Green and in fact helped found the Green Party of BC; but I consider myself a "radical independent" and am most interested in reforms of the democratic and electoral systems, breaking the stranglehold on public discourse in this country held by the big media/parties, and uncovering the facts about our history, rather than swallowing the myths...and the lies and/or p.r. spin. I'm also admittedly something of a quasi-BC separatist, but not in realpolitik so much as in historical analysis and contemporary commentary/criticism, i.e. as a perspective. Oh, speaking of which, one of my favourite articles on the Pacific Scandal is at http://www.dickshovel.com/two.html and two2.html; the good stuff on Canada comes up on page two but start with the first one for background....just wait 'til I start on "[[Carnarvon Terms or Separation!]]" (I guess the title would actually have to be [[Carnarvon Terms]] because of that exclamation mark..), which was the slogan of BC politicians/public during the 1870s when it looked like Canada was reneging on the railway deal and its terms....[[User:Skookum1|Skookum1]] 09:12, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
:Eek. You're gonna get in trouble. I feel like we're smoking in the school bathroom and I know that a teacher is going to come in at any minute. Well, at first I was a little ticked when I saw a few editors here and there that I assumed were people editing their own WP entries. But now I think everyone has a best friend, right? How can I tell the difference between Joe Smith and Joe's best friend? So if an edit's a problem, it's a problem. And if an editor is a problem, they're a problem. I don't know if it's the subject, his brother or just some kind of psycho fan and to me it doesn't really matter. Usually subjects put in self-serving info, which is a problem whoever they are. And I'm sure you're already well aware of all of the WP policies about outing, etc. I know that we're supposed to be bold but not quite so bold. =)
:If you want to see an interesting accusation, an editor called me a Tommy Douglas fanatic on that article,[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Tommy_Douglas#Budget_Surplus_under_Douglas.3F__Only_if_you_don.27t_include_unfunded_pension_liabilities.21] even though my name is from Liberal [[James Garfield Gardner]] (who was cast as a villan in the TD movie on CBC). It was actually rather satisfying to point that out to him. The Marissen article certainly had some fluff. I removed a little bit. It isn’t that the info is so problematic but sometimes when things are so specific, like the son’s middle name, you do wonder. But like I said, bad edits are bad edits and who knows what motivates people. You probably have to be a little disturbed to be a Wikipedian anyway. And the nice thing about being up so late is that you always get the last word -- at least for the night. =) --[[User:JGGardiner|JGGardiner]] 09:53, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
::Well, weren't you the one who outed EB? :-p [[User:Skookum1|Skookum1]] 10:22, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
 
:::::::My original reply, for those interested, at [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:JGGardiner#Bunster.2C_Shakespeare_et_al.| JGGardiner's talkpage]] although the dialogue has continued here since...[[User:Skookum1|Skookum1]] 18:33, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
 
==update==
I added Rick H to my report, and made a separate [[Wikipedia:Requests for checkuser/Case/Rascalpatrol|check-user report]], which I'm guessing should be a little more expedient. Growing up with 6 older siblings made me a good tattle-tale. [[User:Bobanny|Bobanny]] 21:39, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
===reply===
Seems to me that Wikipedia isn't equipped to police these things too rigorously for technical reasons, and in judgement calls, admins err on the side of benefit of the doubt. A handful of things are treated as cut-and-dry, such as the legal threat thing, but most of the real policing goes on through the diligence of plebian editors, reverting vandalism and the like. The most I hope for with those reports is that someone will check the IPs and any sockpuppetry will be confirmed, which falls into the cut-and-dry category and worthy of an immediate ban. Right now, I believe everything's on the table and disengaging is the way to go. Whatever tit-for-tat continues isn't likely to affect the AfD outcome, and you're probably right that you're being baited. There's a good chance that they are not all socks, and even if a master and some puppets are blocked, it'll still take diligent editing to move those articles along because they're inherently contentious and politicized. If you want to win the war, choose your battles strategically. [[User:Bobanny|Bobanny]] 01:17, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
 
:"The war" is in the courtroom, and in the regular media here; you wouldn't believe some of the other angles I've been hearing on this from outside Wikispace. As far as the diligent editing, it's why my "vote" has "restore" and "protect" on it; as a rewritten/restored-content article will have to be protected to prevent any of these guys from raiding it again. I'll email you something in a sec about which part of "upstairs" I've taken it to (though I'm not expecting to hear anything back).[[User:Skookum1|Skookum1]] 01:22, 5 January 2007 (UTC) Oh, you don't have your Wikimail set up; I'll just leave it to you to guess ;-) (and no, it's not an "outside authority").[[User:Skookum1|Skookum1]] 01:24, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
 
== Glad to join any WikiProject British Columbia ==
 
Be glad to join this WikiProject British Columbia - but I don't actually see it up and running yet . . . am I missing something?! (I'm afraid I wouldn't have any thoughts on that Gray/Columbia River issue, however). [[User:NorCalHistory|NorCalHistory]] 23:24, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
 
:Well, there's only about eight or nine members so far, most of us also members of WikiProject Vancouver; it's in the "building" stage right now; for myself other than certain articles, topics (e.g. mountain ranges, history bios) what I've been doing is placing the WikiProject template on relevant artficles' talkpages and sussing out which templates and stubs we need; it's not as well organized yet as the [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Indigenous peoples of North America|Indigenous People's WikiProject]], where articles on California native peoples are still mostly stubs, and no doubt tjere's other articles/topics worth writing/adding to the project. As for the BC project, if you want sign on....
I've had my hands busy with the AFD these last days but still cranked out a bunch of
improvements to variou mountain range articles....once the dust settles on the politics I'm going to hunker down on building up the project templates/portal, as hopefully also the other members will "get going" on it, too. [[User:Qyd]] by the way is a talented mapmaker...[[User:Skookum1|Skookum1]] 00:14, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
 
== re: Graphic on BC Protected Areas stub ==
 
Oops. The image was just copied from the (generic, parent) PA stub type, and obviously you're right that something from BC would be much better. Any image would do, so long as it's free (and not "fair use"), and looks reasonably clear at 40x30px. Have anything in mind? If you have any coding questions about, or problems with, stub templates, feel free to ask, I'll try and help. If you're planning on creating new stub types, please do mention them at [[WP:WSS/P]], though, to get broader input on the wisdom and details thereof. [[User:Alai|Alai]] 01:11, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
 
== Bambridge Article ==
 
Well it was created by me a while ago, and don't recall what source I used. I suppose if it doesn't exist that it could be made into a disambiguation page or possibly deleted. Personally, I think it would be useful as a disambiguation page. [[User:Hello32020|Hello32020]] 22:43, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
 
== Need peak-pic for stub ==
 
I don't think so. <small>—The preceding [[Wikipedia:Sign your posts on talk pages|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:Black Tusk|Black Tusk]] ([[User talk:Black Tusk|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Black Tusk|contribs]]) 22:56, 5 January 2007 (UTC).</small><!-- HagermanBot Auto-Unsigned -->
 
What peaks do you need pics for? [[User:Black Tusk|Black Tusk]] 6:08, 5 January 2007 (DRR)
 
:Hah! Any article that's out there, for one thing. The specific peak-pic request though is for an image that's still going to look like a mountain/peak at 35px in size, so it'll fit in a stub template; see the templates section of the BC WikiProject (the BCWP is linked on the invite on your page) and click on each of the stubs; I created the dogwood logo on some of them; the others use variations on the BC flag. Currently mountain and mountain range articles get the "___location" (geo) stub, but I know how many there's eventually going to be so want to create a new stub; never have liked the flag thing, though could use it for now; the dogwood doesn't seem right for a mountain.[[User:Skookum1|Skookum1]] 23:30, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
 
==COI==
[[WP:COI]] seems to pretty much be an admission that it's not something admins can police, but comes down to other editors' diligence. Most conflicts of interest are non-issues as they deal with non-controversial subjects, and self-promoters are easily spotted and dealt with through the normal editing process. I had 2 articles successfully AfD'd not long ago because one was of an author, whose only notability was the subject of the other article, his cheesy, self-published, and painfully non-notable novel about Bush and terrorism. But in that case, and most of them, it's NPOV and notability policies that deal the fatal blow, not conflict of interest. Besides, who else would bother to contribute lists of Liberal Party delegates to a convention other than a party member? Also, my reading of rascalpatrol's neutral vote is that it's who you think it is, but the article wasn't started by that person, so their only options are to make it a politically neutral vanity page, with things like links to Bornmann's photography website, or else allow it to be politically unflattering. One is positive, one negative, which equals neutral, which also gives some variety and thus appearance of legitimacy to the anti-Skookum puppet camp. Jammy Simpson is clearly a legit editor, and it's not surprising that anyone not familiar with the issue would look at the sanitized article and see it as a non-notable subject and would not be inclined to wade through what's become a mountain of convoluted debate. [[User:Bobanny|Bobanny]] 04:40, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
:Sounds good. I'd suggest to draw from the most mainstream sources possible, and only use Tielman for points of information, not interpretation, if necessary. He may be published in normally "reliable sources," but as a partisan editorial writer. And make liberal use (no pun intended) of words like "alleged." I'd probably have a good eye for proof-reading because I really haven't paid any attention to the details of the scandal through all of this. [[User:Bobanny|Bobanny]] 05:03, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
::Notice how nobody's used the word "libellous" since I snitched? [[User:Bobanny|Bobanny]] 05:11, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
 
Sorry, I think that I'm a little late for your COI discussion but I think that Bobanny said it well. WP:AUTO obviously applies if your suspicions are correct but without an admission there really isn't anything that anyone can do unfortunately. All that we can do is watch the edits and make sure that the bad ones get fixed, no matter who is making them. I know that isn't fun but the price of fairness is that WP can get taken advantage of sometimes. --[[User:JGGardiner|JGGardiner]] 11:33, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
 
:Just was by your page. Geez, we should meet for dawn coffee sometime, huh? See [[User talk:Mkdw]] for a bit more on this; those SPA templates should be placed on Titus Pollo ''and'' rascalpatrol, too, as I told him; but I had a nice little bit of imagery there you might like...WP can be taken advantage of sometimes; but in this case, no longer...the same crew are hovering around the LedgeGate page, and so the same watch has to be made there; I haven't researched [[Mark Marissen]] enough to know what's needed there, but it's another [[WP:AUTO]]/[[WP:COI]] bio-cum-puff-piece, too; I'd venture that all political biographies are subject to p.r. department fiddling (like SFU's page...), as with the political party pages; but it's when '''important stuff''' is ''actively concealed'' that we have to get tough, I'd say. Something to be vigilant for in all BC history/politics pages in general, in fact, although in this case we're actually dealing with bona fide professional p.r. men/spin doctors; "if they are who they might/seem to be"...hence the twisting of concepts/words back at you like all of them have done, just like those talking heads/pundits who control our televised political "discussions" for us on the networks (ever seen an ordinary Canadian take part in one?); Tompettyfan the slickest of them all (he's the main contributor/"property-owner" at [[Mark Marissen]], as I think I mentioned; I think "they" dragged him in when they realized they were up to their neck in alligators. [[Cariboo alligators]], no less...another article I've got to get writing (see [[Paul Saint Pierre]].....[[User:Skookum1|Skookum1]] 11:45, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
::Well of course do have truthiness at WP from wikiality. Of course the majority in this case shouldn't include all of those disposable accounts. The closing admin. has the discretion to exclude them and most admins. know the tricks that go on here. Like you pointed out, you can buy bulk memberships and make "instant Liberals" (or "instant Tories", etc.) but it is a lot harder to make instant Wikipedians -- at least the kind that can "vote". =) --[[User:JGGardiner|JGGardiner]] 11:56, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
:::I think they're finding that out, much to their chagrin. I'll voice my opinion/theory, once again, that Wikipedia affords an opportunity for TRUTH in Canadian historiography and in current events/politics that our national media have been sickeningly short of for too long now (well, they were always a bunch of skankers, but...it seems worse lately, especially post-Oka/Meech/Charlottetown....by the way, an article I'd like to have found and I guess as to get written someday is the [[Spicer Commission]] or Royal Commission or whatever it was, and its bastard dumb-downed offspring the [[Charest Commission]]. Guess what aren't listed on [[Crown Commissions of Canada]] or [[Crown Commission]] or whatever it's called ("List of" probably...)....and guess why....Also, parting thought for the night, if you can get yourself up to SFU's video library, I think in the main Bennett library but maybe hidden deep in the Communications Department, there's a video they have of a '70s experiment in "community political television", which ''was'' a bunch of ordinary Canadians, or bunches of them, talking frankly about the way the place is and how it works/worked. Eerily "modern" if you listen to it now; CBC staged it when Trudeau told them to do more public-interest programming with real people in them; it nearly caused a revolution and a breakdown overnight, by the frankness of what was said (and not reported on in the press); the next day their budget was doubled and they were told ''never do it again''. Fascinating viewing, not just for the haircuts and the amazing contrasts between the different environments chosen by producers in each city, from the couch-and-ashtrays in Edmonton, the beer-and-couches in St. John's, to the stiff-as-a-board politicized British Columbians on neatly-spaced stools trying to hold to their prepared notes....but it was national open-line, and totally amazing. Watch it some time when you've got...oh, I think it was 4-5 hours or so in total....it's in the SFU library somewhere, made by the CBC, and it's called ''"People Talking Back"''. It should almost have an article.....but there's nothing written on it because it was suppressed....[[User:Skookum1|Skookum1]] 12:08, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
::::It sounds a little bit like Wikipedia TV. =) --[[User:JGGardiner|JGGardiner]] 06:14, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
 
== British Columbia stub types ==
 
Hi - it looks like you've just created four new stub types relating to British Columbia. All four have been listed for deletion at [[WP:SFD]]. As it says at [[WP:STUB]], in most stub categories, and on various other pages around Wikipediatub types should be proposed before creation at [[WP:WSS/P]], to ensure that the stub types conform to stub naming standards, standard thresholds for new stub creation, are correctly formed, and are of a type that will well fit in with the cuurrent stub hierarchy. None of your four stub types are correctly formed - all use a sort-key of a type that has been repeatedly rejected for use with stubs. Two of the stub types have names that do not conform to standard stub naming. Only one appears to be close to the required threshold ffor stub splitting, and that is of a type specifically mentioned as being of a type which should not be split at WP:STUB (geographical articles are split by region and then by subregion - towns, rivers, mountains and the like shouldd not be split by dint of them being towns, rivers or mountains). Another of the types also runs contrary to normal stub splitting (due to people moving from place to place, the only biographical articles normally split on a subnational basis are those of politicians). None of the stub templates have formed categories - they are all redlinks. If you have any comments to make about the proposed deletion, please feel free to add them at [[WP:SFD]]. And in future, if you wish to create a stub type, please propose it first so that it's done properly! [[User:Grutness|Grutness]]...''<small><font color="#008822">[[User_talk:Grutness|wha?]]</font></small>'' 04:42, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
 
:By now you've probably seen my remarks on the SFD; before I hit the hay I noticed above ''"geographical articles are split by region and then by subregion - towns, rivers, mountains and the like shouldd not be split by dint of them being towns, rivers or mountains"''....well, geez, uh, I'm not meaning to be glib, but that's a very "flatlander" way of looking at things, I must say. Mountains necessarily get a different kind of region, in that they come packaged in ranges (see [[:Category:Mountain ranges of British Columbia]], which ain't half-done yet, not even a tenth in fact.... Towns and rivers on the other hand, at least in these parts, come packaged in basins or what we traditionally call "Countries" - as in the Skeena Country, the Lillooet Country, the Boundary Country, the Columbia Country, the Cariboo Country, the Omineca Country, the Peace Country, the Okanagan Country, the Shuswap Country, the Thompson Country etc often omitting "Country" altogether, but prefaced by "the" ("the Cariboo", "the Omineca", "the Peace", "the Bulkley" etc.) or using capital-d "District" instead of "Country"; and not all are defined by the rivers that flow through them (the Cariboo Country more by the [[Cariboo Plateau]] than by the [[Cariboo River]], as there are several rivers in that region; another region is simply [[Fraser Canyon]], another [[Central Coast]], another is based on the name of a town/lake, the [[Atlin Country]]; whereas "the Shuswap" generally isn't taken to include the Shuswap River basin, which is an adjunct to the Okanagan and most people might think of it as being in "the Monashees" (a reference to the [[Monashee Mountains]] its basin is located in); then there's the insular/coastal "regions" which are even harder to define (see [[Gulf Islands]] and [[Georgia Basin]] and [[Georgia Strait]], which isn't quite the same thing as [[Gulf of Georgia]] although the latter (currently) redirects to [[Georgia Strait]]. Then there's [[Lower Mainland]], which I mentioned in the SFD, and newly-invented "regions" cooked up by marketing types like the [[Sea-to-Sky Corridor]] (Howe Sound-Squamish-Whistler-Pemberton, from the marketing name for [[British Columbia Highway 99]]. ''But'' most of these are NOT legal names, although they are often used in them (without the "Country" part, but sometimes with the "District"), i.e. in those forms, although there is a [[Central Coast Regional District, British Columbia|Central Coast Regional District]] and a [[Cariboo Regional District]]; but the latter is a political-administrative boundary, and doesn't (necessarily) coincide with the traditional meaning of "the Cariboo", which can include parts of the Fraser Canyon and the "Thompson-Okanagan" (the "Thompson" part, not the Okanagan part), and "in its own mind" includes "the [[Chilcotin]]", which from the Chilcotin things is something like unfriendly annexation....and ''any'' formal, legal subdivisions of BC are subject to change - great change - depending on the whim of the party/petty tyrant in power at the time; which is why the RDs (regional districts) are not workable as subdivisions. We have thousands of lakes, hundreds of which may have articles; and even more islands, again hundreds of which might have articles. I don't know why the geo-stub cat can't be broken down by towns, rivers, mountains/mountain ranges, islands/archipelagos, but I suppose in other parts of the world that makes sense. ''It doesn't here!''. I won't expound on this further because of my rambling style but I could go on about the why and wherefore; wikidom has a choice between thousands of stubs in the BritishColumbia-geo-stub cat, or it can come up with a hierarchy of stubs ''that makes sense for British Columbia''. Asking us to conform to a standard evolved for Oxfordshire or Ohio won't work...if BC was as small as US states, it would work; but we're the size of Western Europe with a very distinct and extremely mountainous geography which has defined us perhaps in a different way than anywhere else; "a veritable sea of mountains" as one frontier era diarist commented, "not without a touch of horror" as the historian I read that in commented about the phrase. We're a Switzerland-style landscape the size of England, France, Germany ''and then some'' combined; we just haven't had time to develop cantons yet, and our county system (the regional districts) isn't "fixed" like it is in older Canadian/American jurisidictions (in the US aren't the counties mandated by state constitutions and therefore fixed in perpetuity? Not so in BC, where even municipalities can be done away with the stroke of a pen by the government-of-the-day, and shuffling regional district boundaries is a matter of course, almost of necessity, because of changing growht patterns with our boom-and-bust economic patterns....[[User:Skookum1|Skookum1]] 10:04, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
 
Hi Skookum1 - you wrote:''Thanks for the advisory and the admonishment. My posts on the SFD aren't meant to be overbearing; other Wikipedians familiar with me know I'm kinda prolix/voluble - I just type real fast and usually have forty different things to say that more or less have to do with the topic at hand ;-) I just wrote up a fair explanation on my talk page why any subdivisions of BC are going to be difficult; it's easier (for us, if not for Wiki) to subdivide things by category of object; I won't go on as I have enough already on the SFD and the talkpage. I'll propose certain stub ideas - the poli-stub, and a gov-stub (?) for sure, and I had others in mind. I notice you didn't SFD the mountains-stub...was that an oversight? I have good reason why it's needed, as explained on the SFD, and also in the context given on my talk page; mountains have regions called mountain ranges; towns and rivers can't be classified that way; and mountains can't be classified by lowlander boundaries as they quite often then would have to be in two regions (being defining parameters or those regions, being ridge-summits and all...); which is why anything along the Continental Divide south of about 54 degrees latitude is in both BC and Alberta categories (there's currently a [[:Category:Mountains of British Columbia]], and a [[:Category:Mountain ranges of Canada]], which includes the BC cat; most ranges in Canada are in either BC or Alberta (with the huge bulk of them in BC, overwhelmingly) plus a few large ones in the Yukon and NWT, and a handful in [[Quebec]] and [[Newfoundland and Labrador]]; IMO there should be [[:Category:Mountain ranges of Alberta]] and [[:Category:Mountain ranges of Yukon]] as well as mountain cats for same; I know that's not your area but it's a similar/related issue, and the idea of mountain stubs is really relevant if you live in place where "there are more mountains than people" (as with BC). Anyway, BC has something like 5,000 named peaks, or more....(I know, as I was the senior geographer for the Canadian Mountain Encyclopedia for three years and either created or organized most of their entries....). Best place to reply is probably my talkpage I guess....[[User:Skookum1|Skookum1]] 10:13, 6 January 2007 (UTC)''
 
Mine aren't meant to be overbearing either - I know I sometimes come across as authoritarian on stub matters, but it's the way I type rather than anything else. I often look at what I've typed later andd wonder why ever typed that! As far as your points above go, let's take them one at a time :)
Starting with: '''''What''''' mountain-stub? Yes, that should have been speedy-deleted - there was a BC-mountain-stub once in the past which went through SFD and was deleted. (ISTR the vote on it was about 11-0!). But there doesn'tseem to be a BritishColumbia-mountain-stub, so I'm not sure what it's been named if it's been made... As I pointed out at SFD, geo-stubs are always divided up by region, virtually never by landform type. Splitting geographical items along one axis is hard enough to keep track of, splitting them along two is nigh on impossible. And since most people tend to know about the geeography of a particualr area, splittijng by type has never been regarded as a good move (as to it being a "flatlander way of looking at things", I'll have you know there are mountains a couple of hours drive from me that make many of British Columbia's look like pimples :) Geo-stubs are split first by country ((such as Canada) then by region (such as, say Ontario), then by subregion (such as, for instance, The Golden Horseshoe). And, as the article on British Columbia's geography says, there are 27 official regional districts, surely a reasonable place to start. Ireealise that political ddivisions like this may ccut across traditional descriptions off arreas, but the same is true for such divisions worldwide. Here in New Zealand, Wellington-geo-stub is used for the Wellington region, despite the fact that people in some parts of that region never regardd themselves as being Wellingtonian, but are from the wairarapa (which isn'tan official region at all). But official boundaries are by far the most useful way off splitting regions.let's face it, theree are ''national'' boundaries that are problems in some parts of the world, but that dosn't stop us having stubs for the countries in question. As to splitting by landforms as well, one in three stub types is already a geo-stub - over 1200 stub types. Start splitting them all along type of landform as well as by region, and how soon do you think it will be before it becomes impossible to keep track of them all? As for having 5000 named peaks, fine - that's about the same number as many other places, but it doesn'tmean that there's any more need for separate mountain stubs for them.There isn't one for Switzerland, for instance, or one for Tibet. And yes, I know how big BC is, but those same standards aree used on places far bigger (Siberia, Alaska,Western Australia) and also on places far smaller (Liechtenstein, Fiji) without any real probleems at either extreme.ASs it happens, the standards were originally used for continents, and have slowly been broken down into smaller areas. So I doubt there'd be much problem for BC, even if it is a mountainous place!
 
Onto sunnier matters - what stub types might be recommended as possible? A renamed BritishColumbia-poli-stub (or gov-stub - I doubt both would be needed) for politics or government, a BritishColumbia-road-stub for road transportation ((perhaps a rail one as well, depends on the numbers)... if there is some way of ensuring that the bio-stub was for people ''primarily known'' for things connected with BC ((pioneer settlers and the like) it might get the not (there's a similar discussion for Texas going on at either SFD or WP:WSS/D at the moment). The problem is ensuring that it doesn'tget used for people whose connection to BC is not a defining chaaracteristic (e.g., asportsman who played for a Vancouver team for three or four seasons).
 
I hope that all makes sense, and that some of it is helpful! [[User:Grutness|Grutness]]...''<small><font color="#008822">[[User_talk:Grutness|wha?]]</font></small>'' 10:40, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
::PS - apologies for the typos - I'm using a borrowed laptop and haven'tgot used to the keyboard yet! [[User:Grutness|Grutness]]...''<small><font color="#008822">[[User_talk:Grutness|wha?]]</font></small>'' 10:48, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
 
== Vector images.com ==
 
Hi. If you create a template using this image, you don't have to add information about the image source on the template. Just a notice on the image description page is enough. [[User:Bryan Tong Minh|Bryan]] 10:02, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
:Thanks! (if you're watching). Now if they'll only let me create the stub (see above from [[User:Grutness|Grutness) ;-) [[User:Skookum1|Skookum1]] 10:07, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
 
== Vector-Images ==
 
I think reference to source in image description is enough, as in case with any other images for example licensed under CC-BY. --[[User:EugeneZelenko|EugeneZelenko]] 16:30, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
 
== Chen kwen men tumi ==
Thanks for all the help. Still pretty noob at the whole wikipedia thing, but thanks for the invite and everything. [[User:OldManRivers|OldManRivers]] 01:30, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
 
== New Columbia River Map ==
 
Hello again, Skookum. I found a new NASA image that includes the entire route of the Columbia River, including the Big Bend area of BC. I recreated the river route map and uploaded the image. You can find it at [[:Image:Roll On Columbia.jpg]]. &#9679;[[User:DanMS|DanMS]] 03:32, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
 
:Cool, I think we can use that as a basemap for the Snake, the Clark Fork, the Flathead, the Kootenay, the Thompson, the Okanagan system; though it won't have quite the whole North Thompson and I'm not sure about the sources of the Snake. Do these images span the whole continent, or is it just a selection of certain frames? The Stikine basin would look really impressive, and the best illustration for the [[Rocky Mountain Trench]] I could think of having would be a series of four from the [[Liard River]] to the border - partly because these could also be used for provincial and national park illustrations (see [[Northern Rocky Mountains Provincial Park]]. It would also be really cool to have satellites of the Selwyns, Mackenzies and Brooks Ranges, and the smaller Yukon Ranges. The problem with using the sat images for the Chugach and St. Elias is all you'll see is white; I think topos kind of have to be used there, or nothing will be visible; depends on the image. Like to see a closeup of the Fairweather area, which needs illustration but there's this prominence issue as to whether the [[Grand Pacific Glacier]] is still there or not; if it's not Fairweather's [[prominence]] and its ranking among high-prominence summits in North America changes significantly. btw I was just about to download the new version of googleEarth - the old 29mb-200mb one isn't valid anymore, you have to download TWO GIGABYTES as preferred platform, 400-mb minimum, and I don't have that much on hand at the moment. Which reminds me, later tonight I'll post one of those ArcView hillshades I was talking about and let you and others see it, though if these satellite images come down to high resolution the ArcView's grescale topo shading is superfluous, except as an analytic effect (e.g. you don't have to see the icecaps, rivers, roads. towns etc. only the landform itself).[[User:Skookum1|Skookum1]] 03:58, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
::If you want the base map without the Columbia overlay, I can send it to you. It’s about 4 MB from NASA. The original map has Oregon on it also, but I cut most of Oregon off, as we didn’t need it for the Columbia. &#9679;[[User:DanMS|DanMS]] 05:11, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
::*I don’t quite understand NASA’s server. Apparently you cannot link directly to an individual image page, such as the link that I provided with the Columbia map. When I click on the link, I always get a response that the server is not found. But if you enter the URL [http://visibleearth.nasa.gov/ http://visibleearth.nasa.gov/] (without the image request), it comes back just fine. Then you have to search for what you want. I did a search for “Snake River” and got quite a few hits. Then you just have to sort through and find the ones you want. You could try searching for “British Columbia” and see what you come up with. I found the Columbia image by searching for “Washington State.” &#9679;[[User:DanMS|DanMS]] 05:33, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
 
No, I think for the tributaries the idea is to leave the Columbia ''on'' the map, or the rivers are out of context; I noticed this for certain things I tried making like the [[Cheakamus River]] and [[Elaho River]]; you have to have the main river, too, or it's out of context; in a different colour, yes, but still there. But this map will be good for some regions; I think for the historical trail-maps it's not so good, except on real close-up; see [[Okanagan Trail]] which maybe could use an even more vintage/old-fashioned looking map; the "Wild West" effect; although long-range plan is to reprint public-___domain maps from the time showing the landscape as it was conceived of at the time; the [[Whatcom Trail]] map uses that Environment Canada template I lifted (maybe not quite public ___domain, but my understanding is once you draw/layer onto a piece of digital cartography you've altered the image; there's a certain point of image where the original copyright no longer applies, as it's just a digital photorepresentation of geographic coordinates and features ''which themselves can't be copyrighted''. This comes into photographic-copyright law and I'll run it by someone, as it applies to maps as well, except for that what is represented can't itself be copyrighted or otherwise have rights reserved; you can't own the shape of the Fraser River, for instance. Speaking of which, gotta come up for a map for [[List of crossings of the Fraser River]], which I expanded earlier tonight and someone else is currently tweaking the formats; both a [[Lower Mainland]] scale one and one for the Canyon from Rosedale-Agassiz to Riske Creek/Williams Lake. BTW Spireguy's here, from peakbagger, so I'll ask him about the basemap used on prominence.org, which looks useful for some things; illustrating [[Palouse]][[ for instance, although the sat-map works good for that because it shows grassland well. Anyway, I"ll mine the NASA site you got that image from and I'll "mine" it and see what else I can dig up at other scales and for other areas that might be useful; I'm crappy at graphic overlays but if I find something useful can I give you a ding and ask for drawing/mapping help? Just basics, river lines, range outlines, groups of lakes and towns with their names etc. e.g. [[Cariboo goldfields]] which needn't exist and could just be a [[List of Cariboo goldfield ghost towns]], for example; all one small area (more or less the triangle north of Williams Lake and east of Quesnel, bounded by the northern end of the [[Cariboo Mountains]]. Been writing all day, gonna go play guitar....thanks for the help, and thanks David for stopping by if you did...[[User:Skookum1|Skookum1]] 05:46, 7 January 2007 (UTC) PS I'll also remember to post my complete list of maplinks and how to use them on my resources site, e.g. the Yukon gov site, which I'll give you directions to when I come back from the music...some heritage maps on line through BC Archives turn out to be public ___domain now, even though they ''claim'' they have copyright (but really don't)..[[User:Skookum1|Skookum1]] 05:48, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
:::Here's an ArcView image: [http://www.cayoosh.net/pix/maps/TsimshianPeninsula_91.jpg Tsimshian Peninsula and Lower Skeena River in Arcview greyscale] (~4mb) to show you what they look like; it's very detailed so make sure you view it at full-size 1:1 to get an idea by how much. I have the WHOLE province covered; total zip file of all of them is 700mb+ so I can't post it here for you, if you were interested; but if there's a certain area you'd like to see, please ask. I tried to colourize these but I'm a shoddy point-and-clicker when it comes to layers and outlines and stuff. Yeah, I failed colouring books, and I even failed finger painting, come to think of it...but I've got lots of nice basemaps pilfered from here and there, all PD, or close to it anyway....I'll add in "my" Georgia Basin-Northern Puget Sound basemap here too....[[User:Skookum1|Skookum1]] 01:16, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
::::The ___location of the centre of the ArcView image is approx. 54°17' N latitude, 129°51' W longitude; the diagonal inlet at upper left is Work Channel (pronounced "Wark", or was in colonial times anyway, after [[John Work]]), to its left is the ''Tsimpsean'' Peninsula (I mis-spelled it in the imagename...), just out of view at left is [[Kaien Island]], the ___location of [[Prince Rupert, British Columbia]]. Scale is 1:400,000 [[User:Skookum1|Skookum1]] 01:25, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
:::::Posting [http://www.cayoosh.net/pix/maps/JuandeFuca-GeorgiaBasin_basemap.png this here, too: a map of the Juan de Fuca-Georgia Strait-Fraser Valley-Northern Puget Sound]. Originally an Environment Canada radar-weather basemap, but the copyright SFAIK only applies when the weather image is overlaid; copyrighting the shape of rivers/coastlines is, AFAIK, impossible; especially once it's used as a layer/tracing. I used this for [[Whatcom Trail]] and it would be good, given colour alterations, for things like the competing boundaries in the [[Pig War]], and similar items, including contemporary contexts ([[BC Ferries]] and [[Washington State Ferries]] routes, for example).[[User:Skookum1|Skookum1]] 01:46, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
 
==Big Bend - BC vs WA==
Hi.. just stumbled into here after finding the [[Cascade Volcanoes]] page. That's a great map of the Columbia River linked to above. I thought I'd ask here a question I've been wondering about -- in Washington state there is a region known as "Big Bend" or in long form "Big Bend of the Columbia". There are lots of sources that mention "Big Bend Country" and so on. But my understanding is that there is at least another "Big Bend of the Columbia" in Canada. Is that right? Where is it? Is the term "Big Bend" commonly used for that region? Links to more info? Thanks! I'm working on a "Geography of Washington" page and it is taxing my sadly incomplete knowledge of BC geography. [[User:Pfly|Pfly]] 20:26, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
 
:The same phrase - "Big Bend of the Columbia" up here in BC means the hairpin turn around the Selkirks made by the Columbia between Golden and Revelstoke; now mostly flooded with reservoirs from Mica and Revelstoke Canyon dams. There used to be a town/townlet there, too, named Big Bend (now underwater) which was a bit busier place before the building of the Trans-Canada Highway via the Rogers Pass (Glacier Nat'l Park), as that was the main roadlink between Alberta/Golden and the main part of BC (you could also go via Cranbrook/Crowsnest but it took even longer than the Big Bend....). The [[Big Bend Gold Rush]] took place in the 1860s - I'll be writing the article soon so redlinked that - to get there you'd branch off from the route of the [[Cariboo Road]] at [[Cache Creek, British Columbia|Cache Creek]] over to [[Savona, British Columbia|Savona's Ferry]] at the foot of Kamloops Lake, which was a port for lake/river navigation to the head of Seymour Arm on [[Shuswap Lake]] (that's the upper-right of the lake's "H" shape) and then a pass led from there over the Monashees to the Columbia and the goldfields which were upstream from there, and on certain gold-named creeks coming out of the Selkirks. Soon after, passes via Wap Creek/Three Valley Gap from the Okanagan (Wap Creek is a tributary of the [[Shuswap River]], east of Armstrong/Enderby) made other connections; by the time the CPR got built [[Eagle Pass]] had been discovered, but it wasn't used during the Big Bend Rush (too many damn mosquitos, even today, which is why one milltown there is named Malakwa - the Chinook word for mosquito, from fr. ''maringouin''). More detail than you needed but it's my nature.....where's the Big Bend of the Columbia? Walla Walla? Sounds like the dab page for [[Big Bend]] is going to have to have BC, WA and Texas on it....possibly others, too?Skookum1 (Talk) 21:18, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
 
::Thanks, I suspected it was the hairpin big bend, but somewhere I must have gotten the idea that maybe it was farther south. And more detail is good, I need all the help I can get on BC geography and history! It's a big area and the rivers sure get confusingly twisted. The gold rush stuff and other mining districts in BC played a big role in the history of Washington, especially Spokane, which was apparently an important supply point for the more southernly BC mining districts and a lesser one for regions farther north, at least for a time (or so Spokane boosters would claim!). I'm slowly learning more about that aspect of the region's geography/history, but have a ways to go. Anyway, the Big Bend region in Washington is usually said to be the big curve of the Columbia from the confluence of the [[Spokane River]] to the confluence of the [[Snake River]], and all the lands enclosed inside -- the [[Channeled scablands]], the wheat growing region along the northern part of the bend, from [[Davenport, Washington]] or so to [[Waterville, Washington]], the wheat regions around [[Ritzville, Washington]], and of course the Grand Coulee irrigated lands of the [[Columbia Basin Project]]; but not including the Palouse or Walla Walla regions. I think originally it may have meant the lesser big bend of the Columbia near the Spokane River, where the Columbia turns sharply from flowing south to west, but it may also have always meant the larger bend and the weird scablands and semi-deserts there. I think there is a Big Bend Irrigation District based in [[Moses Lake, Washington]]. It seems that terms like [[Columbia Basin]], Columbia Plateau, and Columbia Plain are more commonly used than Big Bend Country, although none of these terms are very good, I think. The Columbia Basin Project irrigated lands are commonly called the Columbia Basin, which flies in the face of the larger and more sensible meaning. The Columbia Plateau isn't so great either, and is often described as a much larger region than the Big Bend. In any case, thanks for the BC Big Bend info. As I've looked into the WA Big Bend I've considered making a page for the region, but yea, even something like "Big Bend (Columbia River)" would not be specific enough! Cheers and happy editing. [[User:Pfly|Pfly]] 23:17, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
:::You might want to look at [[Rock Creek Gold Rush]], which I wrote the other night. It was the first gold rush east of the Fraser, and was only 3 miles inside Canada, and was originally found in 1859 by two American soldiers from Fort Colville fleeing Indians; they didn't stake a claim but the ___location - Soldier's Bar - was quickly staked soon afterwards "and the rush was on" - without any ability of British authorities to control it, until the Governor showed up (see article); I'd imagine there may be mention of it in histories of Eastern Washington, and pondered putting the Eastern Washington WikiProject template on it just because of that (?). You might also want to pop by [[Boundary Country]], although I haven't fleshed out the mining/railway history there; like the [[Slocan]] (also needs an article) and [[West Kootenay]], it's intrinsically tied into the economy/history of Spokane and Eastern WA. BTW there's no article on the [[Colville Gold Rush]] yet, but there should be (separate from the [[Colville, Washington|Colville]] article, and a [[Fort Colville]] article).Skookum1 (Talk) 23:28, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
 
== Luna Peak (BC) and Borealis Range ==
 
All I know about [[Luna Peak (British Columbia)]] and the Borealis Range comes from bivouac. The only reason I created the article was that I was creating the [[Luna Peak (Washington)]] article and I noticed that bivouac had another Luna, so I figured I should disambig it right off the bat. So I have no independent confirmation of the name...although I might have checked the existence of the peak on BC Basemap---don't remember. -- [[User:Spireguy|Spireguy]] 04:18, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
 
:Luna Peak's on BC Basemap; but the Borealis Peaks aren't; but like I said it might be in Fairley, if not just spew from an egotistical climber bent on carving his name on the landscape, even second-hand (RT drives me bonkers with naming things where he's got no right to, but I'll leave that alone for now - it's part of why I'm dissed with what went on at bivouac....).[[User:Skookum1|Skookum1]] 04:26, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
 
::I still have the addy for James Wasserman, who worked for nat'l parks out of Edmonton or wherever, and will ask him what other soruces there are; mountaineers' guides are valid - I used to have Baldwin's ''Coast Mountains on Skis'', but I knew him and I know he didn't make up names, other than "raw handles" like "Overseer Group" rather than naming it a capital-R Range as RT and DB and others are wont to do. There are some cases where the climbers name is so well known "[[The Chehalis]]" links to [[Douglas Ranges]], which is the proper name but climbers never use it; it was all there was on bivouac originally because bivouac wasn't coordinated with the provincial gazette; or with S. Holland, which is what I've been doing with the range hierarchy/subrange lists; integrating the geo-regional structure within Wikipedia; noting in passing that bioregional, historical regional and other regional structures are different again, as are the administrative districts; quite the layer-cake, huh? Anyway, sometimes names have to be coined, or have come into common usage without being on the map; the Coquihalla Range for what's between that highway and Boston Bar, which is really the northernmost finger of the Cascades, doesn't appear on the provincial gazette; folks around Gold Bridge-Bralorne call the range in behind/west of Mt. Sloan the Hurley Range (in other words along the north flank of the Hurley River and Lone Goat Creek; probably west of Lone Goat Creek too but that's getting into the Sampson/Samson Group; none of these are official names but are in local parlance, often in local speech; Pemberton Range also, which would be the line of summts up the East side of the Lillooet River from Pemberton. The Birkenhead Range is what lies between Bralorne and Birkenhead Lake, the Noel Range is the south flank of the Hurley River. Those are all at least community-generated names; many in the climbers' guides are purely spurious, t hough some are nice: [[Freshfields]], [[Charlotte Alplands]], etc.[[User:Skookum1|Skookum1]] 04:59, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
 
==Erik Bornmann==
As you will see when you actually read the article, in no way does it say he was charged. It says he was involved with the trial that had tow former government employee's charged. It's well cited and no one can challenge its factual accuracy; if read properly. [[User:Langara College|Langara College]] 20:36, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
 
:Doesn't matter, "they" challenged it all the time, which is why it's such an "empty read" and why the confusing whether he was charged or not; "they" didn't even want it mentioned that he was "involved in the case" because they claim it implied that he was a criminal, too (well, he didn't get charged, let's put it that way). Have a look at the edit history and look for a Randy3's last deletion and have a good long look; basically this article was sanitized of anything that was in the news and they made it just his Liberal Party list-of-great-things-I've-done-for-the-party-and-oh-yeah-I-love-puppies-and-kids-too. It's imperative that this article be full and complete ''and accurate'', EXACTLY so people don't get confused; you'd think EB's buddies would realize that and not try and hide things, because THAT is how people like you (and Mkdw) get confused. See [[User talk:Mkdw]] for more on this, as I wrote him last night after he made (then reversed) similar changes to yours. Thanks for trying; but be careful of language, and of confusing comment. Yes, he's involved, no, he's not charged; there's a big difference. Factual accuracy will be difficult to re-establish here as long as "those guys" are around, because they're hostile to it...and their version of what's acceptable is very different from the rest of us...[[User:Skookum1|Skookum1]] 20:42, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
 
::I'm going to treat it as any other current events article to which the events can be reported and written upon. The fact that the referencing is there by notable sources and its a little past the controversy makes it more viable. Furthermore, my contributions have aided the AFD by increasing its Keep count by 2 since my changes. [[User:Langara College|Langara College]] 20:47, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
:::I know; it's good for you to be making the changes - actually restoring material/cites that were there before, in fact - because given the state of tension it would not be for me to do at the moment; I think now that the AFD is stalemated - also high-profile by now, as I'm sure more than one senior admin has popped by and gotten that icky feeling and didn't want to render a decision - that work on the article can ''carefully'' proceed without them deleting anything that doesn't have to do with EB running bake sales for the party; but keep an eye out for your work being reversed, or newslinks being deleted because they're written by journalists they don't like etc. And put hte Current Events template back in; when Omar Jack takes it out again, and then one more time than that, report him for the 3RR (three-revert rule). Not that blocking a sockpuppet does much good, if he's a sockpuppet, but a slap on the hand is a slap on the hand (scroll up this page and find my unblock statement and the retraction section that follows it, although what you see is only the tip of the iceberg).[[User:Skookum1|Skookum1]] 20:57, 7 January 2007 (UTC)[[User:Skookum1|Skookum1]] 20:56, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
 
== Commonwealth of Nations ==
 
I was not really having a discussion ''per se'' about the British Commonwealth/Commonwealth of Nations. I had created a page with a link to British Commonwealth, and some editor was taking me to task for not saying Commonwealth of Nations instead. Must be a sore point with him. In most cases an editor would just change the link without having lecture the contributor. &#9679;[[User:DanMS|DanMS]] 02:33, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
:I certainly didn't mean to lecture myself, only to clarify, and to mention the name changes over time; [[Commonwealth of Nations]] is a later-era p.c. form, I think introduced during the Trudeau or Mulroney era here in Canada, which was assuming "leadership" of the Commonwealth, partly due to British disinterest...so, for future reference, the main article is [[Commonwealth of Nations]]?[[User:Skookum1|Skookum1]] 05:03, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
::I have learned that now. ''However,'' if the article is about a historical reference to an event concerning the Commonwealth before 1949 or 1954 or whenever the name changed, it would still be proper to say “British Commonwealth” as it was then—possibly adding “(now the Commonwealth of Nations)”. BC redirects to CoN so that would work just fine. By the same token, I have lately been writing some articles on the history of U.S. ambassadors, and for events between the World Wars, I usually reference the “Great War,” as WWI was called then. As some wise man once said, “In those times we didn’t know enough to number our wars.” &#9679;[[User:DanMS|DanMS]] 05:37, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
 
== laundry ==
This is probably on your watchlist, but thought I'd make sure you got it. [[Wikipedia:Requests for checkuser/Case/Rascalpatrol|18 socks confirmed]], not counting Rascalpatrol, including your tributes. [[User:Bobanny|Bobanny]] 17:42, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
 
== Sierra Nevada (US) ==
 
I undid your changes to [[Sierra Nevada (US)]]. In my commit message, I used the traditional "rvv", but looking at your contributions and talk pages it seems unlikely that you are a vandal. I confess to being mystified as to why you made [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Sierra_Nevada_%28US%29&diff=prev&oldid=99463467 this] change which removed all altitudes and ISBN numbers. Perhaps some horrific editing accident? -- [[User:Cjensen|Cjensen]] 02:15, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
 
It '''must be'''. The only reason I stopped by the page, while adding the WikiProject Mountains template on the talkpage, was because I noticed the phrase "also known as "The Sierra." - I meant ''only'' to add ''"and the Sierras."'' I don't recall even doing anything ''below'' the line after - no accidental mouse drag/click that I'm aware of; this has happened on one other edit somewhere before, and I don't understand how or why it happens. As for whether I'm a vandal or not, have a look at my User Contributions and my role in nearly any of the articles in [[:Category:Mountain ranges of British Columbia]] and the various other WikiProjects of which I am a member.[[User:Skookum1|Skookum1]] 02:20, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
 
:I'm sorry I was unclear -- after looking at your contributions, there was ''no doubt'' in my mind that you were not a vandal. Editing accidents happen. But sometimes they happen while trying to do something useful, so you might want to redo the useful :-) -- [[User:Cjensen|Cjensen]] 02:25, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
 
== Mathew's Tuya ==
 
I'm just telling you that have just found pictures of Mathew's Tuya on www.google.com when I was doing research if that would prove that it exists [[User:Black Tusk|Black Tusk]] 11:25, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
:I wasn't meaning that it didn't; I only want to know the source of the name, since it's not in the provincial gazette. And having mapped these critters, I'm curious to see what one looks like. BTW do you know [[Meszah Peak]], the shield volcano south of Teslin Lake. Found a great regional sat pic that enlarges to a nice wintertime view of its shape and immense size. See the links to the map resources in the BC & Pacific Northwest History sandbox linked above. You're the volcano guy, can you write an article on it? I'll clip the picture - which is public ___domain and also pretty neat....gotta eat and go to the gym. Just always document, if you can, how a given summit got its name, if it's not listed in Basemap or the Canada GeoBase names database, whatever it's exactly called (link later, I'm cooking...)[[User:Skookum1|Skookum1]] 04:33, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
 
== Meszah Peak ==
 
I have heard of Meszah Peak, I think it is one of the peaks of [[Level Mountain]] which is also a shield volcano [[User:Black Tusk|Black Tusk]] 11:54, January 8, 2007 (UTC)
 
:Actually it's the ''only'' definable summit of the [[Level Mountain Range]], the lanform's official name - in Holland, and in BC Basemap...so anyway, look at my new mapresources and find the one that mentions Meszah Peak and check it out; will make a nice illustration, wherever it goes. I'll check the mountains project naming conventions, but I'm pretty sure if [[Level Mountain]] exists, it should be a redirect to [[Meszah Peak]], which is the gazetted summit-name; if there were more peaks there'd be a point in having a separate [[Level Mountain Range]] article, but there aren't so that, too, should be a redirect to Meszah. I think. Let me check the guidelines/naming convention when I come back from the gym. PS have you tried out the mountain range infobox yet?[[User:Skookum1|Skookum1]] 05:05, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
 
::I also have a not-bad scan of an image of taken from the air in Holland's book; sorta public ___domain; more about why later but I gotta run.[[User:Skookum1|Skookum1]] 05:08, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
 
No I haven't tried the mountain range infobow yet, but I have found a picture of the Level Mountain complex [[http://www.volcano.si.edu/world/volcano.cfm?vnum=1200-05-&volpage=photos&VEhttp://www.volcano.si.edu/world/volcano.cfm?vnum=1200-05-&volpage=photos&VErupt=N&VSources=Y&VRep=N&VWeekly=Nrupt=N&VSources=Y&VRep=N&VWeekly=N]] [[User:Black Tusk|Black Tusk]] 12:37, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
:[http://veimages.gsfc.nasa.gov/2494/Alexander.A2002038.2025.250m.jpg This is the one I was talking about from NASA] - full size about 4mb though. Meszah Peak/Level Mountain Range is due east of Juneau, and straight south of Teslin Lake, if you know your way around the map up there. A third of the way down next to the right-hand edge. I can see the [[Atsutla Range]] on this image, too, I think...but the Tuyas are just out of sight NE of Meszah/Level. More on the naming thing later; Naming Conventions say use the most commonly-used name; no mention of official name; so Dickson Peak is Mt. Dickson, Cheam Peak is Mt. Cheam, and in this case I guess Meszah Peak/Level Mountain Range is Level Mountain; whatever's decided all should have redirects, and the redirects ''all'', I think, should have the BC project template; not sure about that but it makes sense...I guess. [http://veimages.gsfc.nasa.gov//15538/landsat_tagish.jpg This one of Tagish and Atlin Lakes frozen over] I'd like to use to illustrate some of the small ranges in the area; or not, maybe better to use a summer image; this one's just so funky looking; complicated prominence area, by the way, took me a good couple of weeks to "crack" it. The line from Ulysses to Ratz, or rather NOT to Ratz, was really hard to work out; both go to Fairweather, via Buckwell...[[User:Skookum1|Skookum1]] 09:28, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
 
== Re:Category:Cities on the Fraser River ==
 
Hey, thanks for your note. [[:Category:Communities on the Fraser River]] would be fine, I chose "Cities" because that was the naming convention used in all previously existing sub-cats of [[:Category:River cities]], [[:Category:Cities on the Fraser River]]'s parent cat. Personally I think the category would be best and most informative if it contained all settled places along the river, including Spuzzum, etc., as you noted. Without including these smaller places the category may wind up containing less than say 15 entries, and therefore may be more appropriate as a list. But if it contains several dozen places because we are including smaller places, then I think that's much more informative and category-worthy. Just my two cents, feel free to nominate the cat for renaming at [[WP:CFD]] as looks best. Take care, [[User:Kurieeto|Kurieeto]] 12:14, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
 
== Mount Meager ==
 
yea i know but Mount Meager is part of the Cascade Volcanoes which I haven't seen a category for [[User:Black Tusk|Black Tusk]] 1:50, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
 
:But don't give something a category it doesn't belong in. As for the Cascade Volcanoes, I thought that ended at Garibaldi itself, but I guess it makes sense it would have to include the [[Garibaldi Volcanic Belt]]. Originally the [[Cascade Range]] article was all American-written and they included Garibaldi and even the rest of the Coast Mountains in the Cascades, partly ''because'' of the confusion of the Cascade Volcanoes with the Cascade Range. I made some changes there but it's still pretty murky - so a "split" would be great, meaning that if you'd care to start [[Cascade Volcanoes]] that would probably be a good idea. But there's no equation between the Cascade Volcanoes and the Cascade Range, in terms of definitions, remember. The [[Garibaldi Ranges]] are pretty much ONLY Garibaldi and Golden Ears Parks, by the way, nothing N/W/NW of Whistler....[[User:Skookum1|Skookum1]] 19:02, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
 
::PS is the [[Bridge River Ocean]] named after the [[Bridge River]]? If so the article should probably say so, and why.[[User:Skookum1|Skookum1]] 19:04, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
 
I'm not sure if the Bridge River Ocean is named after the Bridge River, maybe, but about the Cascade Volcanoes I would think that they would be with the same because they all formed by the subduction of the [[Juan de Fuca Plate]]. 2:15, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
 
== Mountain range infobox template problem! - me too ==
 
I've been doing a few edits on the Infobox Mountain Range recently aimed at better formatting of the output but the core of the template remains unchanged and I believe it works correctly. Before I applied the template on the [[Cayoosh Range]] I had a look at how you had handled it. When you copy/edit the blank template, you should use the real blank one, at the bottom of the page [[Template:Infobox Mountain Range#Blank]], the middle one [[Template:Infobox Mountain Range#Legend]] is only a guide how to fill out the fields. If you leave any fields blank (and I recommend so rather then erasing them completely, because someone else might then easily supply the missing information) they're not displayed at all. As for the pipes, it's not important whether they are at the line beginnings or ends or whether all parameters are on one line. So <pre>{{Infobox Mountain Range| name = Rockies | country = USA | country1 = Canada}}</pre> renders {{Infobox Mountain Range| name = Rockies | country = USA | country1 = Canada}} while <pre>
{{Infobox Mountain Range
| name = Rockies
| country = USA |
country1 = Canada}}</pre> renders {{Infobox Mountain Range
| name = Rockies
| country = USA |
country1 = Canada}}
And as to the coordinates, most other newer templates use the same system, with a separate field for degree, minute, seconds et. too. I believe this is better because it allows easier manipulation with the values, how they are displayed, how they are linked to maps. I added a few intructions to your previous comment on the infobox talk page, in short: do not wikilink anything, the template does that for you, do not add units, simply choose an appropriate field (e.g. length or length_imperial) and fill in the value, an unfromatted figure (e.g. 1024 not 1,024, i.e. without the comma), the templates calculates the metric/imperial value and adds all necessary units, linked. – [[User:Caroig|Caroig]] 10:16, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
 
==Rock Creek==
Wow, you're very prolific. Thanks for the link. I guess all of you're red links should remind me of all the articles that need creation. I was also thinking there should be an article about the British military presence in BC (and Canada generally). I had thought about that when I read the "Pig War" article. Unfortunately I don't know all that much about BC history myself. I guess I'll have to brush up on that. --[[User:JGGardiner|JGGardiner]] 01:30, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
:: I second that, very good work Skookum. Sometime I would like to get a book on the history of Steamship travel on the coast and do some wikiwork on that topic . . . sometime . . . . [[User:KenWalker|KenWalker]] | [[User talk:KenWalker|Talk]] 01:32, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
:::I was thinking of a series of stubs based on a search for "ship" at www.bcarchives.gov.bc.ca (i.e. in the image catalogue), as all kinds will come up by name, even if there's no online image associated with the catalogue number. This would apply from famous big ships like the ''Empress'' liners to the coastal-port steamers and all the little steamers and lake ferries etc. This could be done also for CPR, Grand Trunk, PGE and CNR steam engines and "named diesels" (significant ones anyway). I'm not a marine-history kind of guy but it would be easy enough to lay out the stubs to provide the infrastructure for someone ''else'' to flesh them out later. This is also my intent with a lot of the ghost towns, although I'll certainly write articles on the more interesting ones. As for BC history, I just wrote up some stuff for http://thetyee.ca in [http://thetyee.ca/News/2007/01/04/Falkoski this thread]; just "find on this page" for my regular username in order to sift through the various posts (the main article has to do with radioactive barite mining vs. ranching in the Rock Creek-Hwy 33-southern Monashees area, actually); there's other tracts on BC history I've written in other threads there, and you can just search the Tyee also for my user name. I was going to migrate/copy a lot of that stuff over to a blogspace I've had dormant for a while, as well as a lot of my historical ramblings on Wikipedia talkpages (which, well, you know, I just can't help myself from doing....speaking of which check out [[Talk:Robert Gray (sea-captain)]] and explore the argument there; I'm in it, but not alone. Anyway, more later; glad you liked Rock Creek. Not sure what I'll do next; basically wherever the Akriggs or Basque fall open in front of me tonight....Skookum1 (Talk) 03:29, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
 
You guys might want to check out [[Big Bend Gold Rush]], which I just winged it on; still have to check dates and get more exact locations, earnings, nos. of men etc but it's a start; someone else might want to review it, although I gave it ratings when I put in the BC Wikiproject template, which as the author I shouldn't do. Touches welcome of course.[[User:Skookum1|Skookum1]] 01:26, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
 
==check user==
Boy, looks like you're on a roll. Maybe they should ban you more often if it gets your juices flowing like this. On the check user thing, I'd say check the letter (i forget which one) that says the suspect is using a sock to avoid a ban. As for comments, from what I can tell, the check user people are disinterested clerks that are not involved in editing, or at least a select few and aren't involved in the specific conflict. Anyway, any explaining of the issue would be wasted there. All you need to say is something like this user is suspected of being a sockpuppet because they are changing the comments of a blocked puppetmaster, apparently to make those comments more less offensive. Link the diff showing riley smyth's changes to rascalpatrols comments, and that should cover all the bases. It's kind of a tedious process, huh? In the meantime, I'll stick a tag on riley's user page for vandalism. (tags and info are here: [[Wikipedia:Vandalism]]) Tags are good to use to establish a history where the person has been warned plenty in a block decision. I suspect someone's covering their tracks in anticipation of an upcoming trial and the related scrutiny that might draw attention to such things. [[User:Bobanny|Bobanny]] 05:02, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
 
Also, be sure to put your request on the existing case page, following the instructions at the [[Wikipedia:Requests_for_checkuser/Case/Rascalpatrol|previous case's archive]]. [[User:Carson_Lam|Carson]] 05:08, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
 
==re Help==
Hey Skookum1. I thought I should leave a message for you. If you get a chance, check out my comments on [[Talk:Squamish Nation]] and [[Talk:Skwxwu7mesh Uxwuimixw|Talk:Skwxwu7mesh]]. Let me know what you think (on those pages). Thanks [[User:OldManRivers|OldManRivers]] 10:16, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
 
:I've been busy away working at a few sites. You might of noticed the [[Squamish Nation]] and [Skwxwu7mesh Uxwuimixw|Skwxwu7mesh]] pages. Not sure if you checked the links I left in my previous message (right above this comment), but I wanted to know if you could help me figure out how to: Move Skwxwu7mesh Uxwuimixw to Skwxwu7mesh and Skwxwu7mesh Uxwuimixw. Right now, on redirects to Skwxwu7mesh Uxwuimixw, and the other, to Squamish Nation. As we mentioned, I wanted to make Squamish Nation the political organization and Skwxwu7mesh/Skwxwu7mesh Uxwumixw the culture, history, society page. All the redirects and page moves I made a few months ago are quite screwy (yes I know, it was my mistake, I apologize.) Just not sure how to move them to the proper places now. Do you know how to fix this mess? Thanks for any help. Contact me if this makes no sense to you...haha... [[User:OldManRivers|OldManRivers]] 03:49, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
 
::A formal "move" isn't necessary, since [[Skwxwu7mesh]] doesn't exist yet. So ''create it'' and cut-and-paste all the content from [[Skwxwu7mesh Uxwumixw]] (and/or [[Skwxwu7mesh Uxwuimixw]] over to it, then turn ''those'' into redirects to the new article (no one who doesn't speak/write Skwxwu7mesh snichim will look for them, but since they're there they can't be blank). I'd also suggest you create a redirect to [[Skwxwu7mesh]] for [[Squamish people]] and also [[Squamish (tribe)]] (the latter is a format found on many Native American pages, or their redirects). An admin may come along sooner or later to inquire about whether or not [[Squamish people]] should be the main article and [[Skwxwu7mesh]] a redirect, but you can point to [[Palus]] and other examples where the native-preferred form is the main article; the native form is also used for [[St'at'imc]] and [[Nuxalk]] (which even have the accent-marks on the main articles, as well as in the category names). I can't remember who it is around the Wikiproject that was creating all the various First Nations categories (Secewpemc, Sto:lo, Haida, St'at'imc, Nuxalk, Dakelh, Gitksan and others are already created as categories...athough IIRC the Gitksan themselves prefer Gitxsan....) but depending on article density (no. of articles in the topic-area) you might want to get created a <nowiki>[[:Category:Skwxwu7mesh]]</nowiki>; I'll find out how to ask to do it. Hope that's not too complicated; should be simple.[[User:Skookum1|Skookum1]] 04:34, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
 
I also need helps for when it comes to uploading pictures and citing references. Books, papers, oral history, etc. I've looked at the help pages, but they are awfully intimidating and long and complex. Looking for the simplest explaination. Think ya can give me a few hints about those. Wanted to use the [[Dan George]] page to work on my wikipedia skills and buff it up. Thanks [[User:OldManRivers|OldManRivers]] 10:27, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
 
== [[WP:BC]] assessment ==
 
You culd add the rules at [[Wikipedia:WikiProject British Columbia/Assessment#Importance scale]]. The existing scale there has some general rules related to notoriety of subjects within the intent of the projects (I borrowd those from other projects). We could also discuss guidelines on the [[Wikipedia talk:WikiProject British Columbia|project talk page]]. On a related note, could you add the assessment when you place the banner on the talk page (it's easier this way rather then returning to hundreds of article talk pages). Thanks. PS: I wouldn't worry much about changing the assessment, ''any'' assessement is much better than none. --[[User:Qyd|Qyd]] 18:50, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
 
== [[Cascade Range]] ==
 
I rewrote the intro paragraph of [[Cascade Range]] (also see [[Talk:Cascade Range]]). See what you think. I don't think specific mention of the detailed boundary (Fraser, Thompson, etc.) is necessary in the intro.
 
For the southern boundary of the [[North Cascades]], see that article. The ambiguous status of the Coquihalla Range is mentioned in there, although maybe it could be clearer. -- [[User:Spireguy|Spireguy]] 20:19, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
 
== While I'm hibernating ==
 
(I've picked up that Atlas of North Pacific, the Pethick and Akrigg, in case I have trouble falling asleep again.) [[User:NorCalHistory|NorCalHistory]] 23:35, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
 
:There's an Atlas of the North Pacific, and an Atlas of British Columbia and the Pacific Northwest....which one? Akrigg's a good read, a bit out of date (1913) in terms of style, but less pretentious than a lot of the modern historiographical stuff, which is pompous and judgemental as hell, as well as deadly-dull to read unless you're a self-righteous politically-correct type who likes to couch stupidities in academic language and lots of footnotes (most quoted out of actual context, but with what I call "imposed context". You might want to have a look at some posts of my on the comments forum on an article in ''[[http://www.thetyee.ca The Tyee]]'' - look for the item on Radioactive Ranching or whatever it's called, author is a Falkowski somebody, as I ranted about issues with academic historiography and public mythologies about history; a grand rant, and I've got more that I cut out that was too tangential that's even more, um, nasty towards academia; I'm all over the place on The Tyee with historical comments/tangents, often that have nothing to do with the original article (the way the forum works nobody sticks on-topic), so if you search "Skookum1" there you might find some interesting reading. Or colourful rants, either one. I'm even more crotcecty, irascible, and fiery-tongued there than I am in Wikipedia ;-). [[User:Skookum1|Skookum1]] 23:44, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
::Speaking of Pethick, both books I mentioned wind up giving extensive catalogues of ship-visits and activities, and I've been meaning to do a series of stubs on all historical vessels in the region's history (including on inland waters....lots of work, huh?). But in regard to his topic material I should get you to pop by [[Talk:Robert Gray (sea-captain)]] and check out the discussion/topic issues there....[[User:Skookum1|Skookum1]] 23:44, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
 
==Brad Majors and Janet Weiss==
Good to know. Feel free to add that information to the page using the appropriate Wikipedia style. --[[User:Ntmg05|Ntmg05]] 05:45, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
 
==False Creek and North Shore==
Okay, the Musquem and Squamish thing is obviously debateable. But, here are a few factoids.
Musquem claims False Creek and the North Shore as their territory. That the Sḵwxwú7mesh are from Squamish/Howe Sound, and we moved down.
The Sḵwxwú7mesh territory was always the North Shore and False Creek. It extended further including Spanish Banks and English Bay. The whole thing about Khastalano being a chief from both is obsurb. He did have relations with both Musquem and Squamish, but it wasn't a "in the middle" thing.
I've heard from some people that Sḵwxwú7mesh territory included Indian Arm, and part of the north arm of the Fraiser River. But, the Musquem floated down, and we let them stay there. The history with Tsleil-Waututh is that originally they came over the hills, they wern't actually Sḵwxwú7mesh, but they asked to stay there, and we said "sure". They eventually married so many Sḵwxwú7mesh, they practically became Sḵwxwú7mesh. Language and culture wise. If you read the [[Squamish Nation]], you will see the history of the amalgamation on there. Supposedly, they didn't sign it, thus, they didn't become apart of the Squamish Nation. But the amalgamation in general is sketchy because of it legitimacy. Some say, it never really happened.
 
:Now, I'm not sure if you are familiar with territory in Salishan sense, but if not, here is a quick way to understand.
 
::The Indigenous people didn't in this area didn't have the foreign understanding of "land ownership". Ownership actually wasn't a known concept. Two concepts were known. "Use" and "carry". You "use" this canoe. You "carry" this ancestral name". You "use" and "carry" this piece of land. With territorial disputes, it wasn't clearly defined lines, although with some we had some identifiable points of reference for territory. With Shishalh, Roberts Creek is a the boundry between our territories. But it wasn't like boarders, or even Fuedal understanding of plots of land. Okay, let's say, you have some siblings, and you live in a house. You use, the kitchen, the bathroom, and your room. Now, your sister uses the living room, the kitchen, and her room. You brother uses the padio, the kitchen, and his room. Now someone comes a long and asks "What room do you own". Well, your all going to say "Kitchen", because you all use it. Same exact concept with my peoples. (Except we have squaters in our kitchen now.) But it was the same for the Musquem, the Tsleil-Waututh, the Lil'wat, or what ever. Even with the Sto:lo. My people were fishing on the Fraiser River too; through family ties with the Sto:lo. Comprende? [[User:OldManRivers|OldManRivers]] 22:23, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
:::Totally; I'm from Shalalth/Lillooet, remember ;-)? A lot of content in the stuff you're finding I was "winging it" from known written sources, rather than from my own understanding of the native relationship to the land; I'm not your conventional white man, let's put it that way. More on this later, I've got to go pander to international consumerism and have a Starbuck's; back later. PS please see [[N'quatqua]] and [[D'Arcy, British Columbia]] - they're the flipside of each other but like [[Tl'itl'kt]] (or T'it'kt in the new spelling) and the town of [[Lillooet, British Columbia|Lillooet]] have to be separate articles; not sure what to do about [[Lil'wat]] vs [[Lil'wat Nation]] vs [[Mount Currie, British Columbia]] (in order: people, provisional government, IR community plus non-native areas surrounding. The band government there is the Lower St'at'imc, part of the [[Lillooet Tribal Council]], and they use the term Lil'wat too of course; but Lil'wat Nation is a "radical" group, the faction that will blockade roads there etc. Been meaning to add stuff like the Lillooet Lake Rodeo, the Xito'lacw subdivision, the Ure Creek logging protest, and the [[Stl'atl'imx Tribal Police]] (who use that spelling, not the St'at'imc version preferred by the LTC and the [[Upper St'at'imc Language Authority]]....btw is there an article on [[Weetama]] in Whistler?[[User:Skookum1|Skookum1]] 22:32, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
::::Yeah, from what I've read, your not bad for a [[Canadian|white guy]]. Good job. Just need to assimilate the rest of the 40'000'000 people in the country, and my people can have our land, rights, title, and lives back. lol :) [[User:OldManRivers|OldManRivers]] 13:48, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
 
==[[Hollywood North]]==
{{RFM-Request|Hollywood North}} [[User:Langara College|Langara College]] 01:37, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
 
== Hollywood North talk page ==
 
In reverting the talk page there you had reverted comments i had recently placed there. please reffrain from doing so in the future. --[[User:Duhon|Duhon]] January 14th 2007
 
:I don't recall reverting ANYTHING on the talkpage; I suggest you check the edit history more closely; anything I may have deleted was pure accident as I NEVER delete anything from talkpages; and I made no reversion/undo on the talkpage either, so watch your allegations, especially given the testy environment around H.N.[[User:Skookum1|Skookum1]] 05:12, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
 
::Skookum1: regarding the Hollywood North fiasco, I wasn't clear who you were talking to in your last post on the HN talk page. If you're concerned about the "inadvertently" comment, it came from me. Please don't read '''anything''' into it, other than my attempt to restore your message without getting involved in your discussion with Duhon. Anyway, I'd appreciate it if you could clarify the message, both to clean up the duplicate copy and to avoid any suggestion that I was taking sides in the discussion. I'm like you, in that I won't modify other editor's comments, but I'd also prefer not to have to write another note on the page to clarify what I've just explained here. Thanks, and please let me know if you have any questions about the preceding. --'''[[User:Ckatz|Ckatz]]'''''<small><sup>[[User_talk:Ckatz|<font color="green">chat</font>]]</sup><sub>[[Special:Contributions/Ckatz|<font color="red">spy</font>]]</sub></small>'' 05:50, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
 
== Cascade Range ==
 
I seen that, you added The North Cascades and Canadian Cascades, etc. [[User:Black Tusk|Black Tusk]] 02:47, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
 
== Cascade Volcanoes ==
 
I have found a map of the Cascade Volcanoes [http://www.skimountaineer.com/CascadeSki/Images/CascadesMapLarge.jpg] [[User:Black Tusk|Black Tusk]] 06:54 15 January 2007
 
== Nicola ==
Thanks for your message. We are thinking of the same French pronounciation! (I live in Montreal!!). In IPA the stress mark is placed before the stressed syllable, rather than after. This is different from other pronunciation systems, I gather. So I think that the transcription is correct as it is, and that your French pronunciation thing is right too! Hope that helps. Feel free to replace the IPA tag for the other transcriptions. I would be out of my league there without hearing the words several times!! Let me know if you have other questions or suggestions --[[User:Slp1|Slp1]] 03:52, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
 
: Tu parles français très bien! Yeah, feel free to get in touch if you want any of the French names transcribed. It would be fun to read the articles too! éé--[[User:Slp1|Slp1]] 01:15, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
 
== Sample Wikiproject template ==
 
Howdy! That template that you have been adding is causing problems for me. It places itself over the top of the existing contents, causing the text of the template and the Wikiproject page to be unreadable. I'm not sure if you are seeing the same problem (I'm using Safari for my browser). Anyway, I reverted a couple of the pages because I couldn't really find a better place to put the template within those articles. I thought I would let you know and hopefully save you some trouble. Thanks, [[User:Cacophony|Cacophony]] 10:20, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
 
== Mount Brew ==
 
I was going to make an article on Mount Brew, but I don't know any information on it except the type of volcano it is. [[User:Black Tusk|Black Tusk]] 08:29, 16 January, 2007 (UTC)
 
:Time for me to write the [[Chartres Brew]] article (the colony' first Chief Constable, of the same rank as Moody, Begbie, etc in colonial history. I can do access and other and have some pics; I'm not sure, but I think Askom Mountain maybe is also; or maybe not Askom. An old friend I used to stay with in Lillooet - she was an old-timer who'd known my folks - used to point out to me a "crater" farther down the Fraser that was a volcano; I'll have to triangulate from a map to see where she was talking about in topo-map terms; might just be a shoulder of Brew. Supposedly the eruptions in that era had something to do with opening, or gouging, the great gorge between Seton Lake and the Fraser; that was in the newspaper article from long ago, I wish I could remember by who (perhaps the late [[Denny Boyd]], in fact).[[User:Skookum1|Skookum1]] 14:33, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
 
== Cascade Range ==
 
I am going to add more American volcanoes in the Cascade Range [[User:Black Tusk|Black Tusk]] 06:42, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
 
:Look, if you're adding volcanoes they should be added to the volcanic belt article; the American illusion about the definition of the Cascade RANGE is that it's about volcanoes (notice all the pics that all look the same? Where's one of Hozameen, Shuksan, etc?). What's needed on Cascade Range is other, NON-volcanic Canadian Cascades peaks; add away on the [[Cascade Volcanoes]] article but please remember there's a reason for the existence of the separate article/definition, and especially minor volcanic summits (I know there's lots - I've mapped the whole area for bivouac.com in more ways than I'd care to discuss) shouldn't be given pride-of-place before more important things like the Cheam Range, Hozameen, the strange glacier-ground horns of the Coquihalla Range, or Cathedral Provincial Park. ''If it's about volcanoes as volcanoes'', they should be put on [[Cascade Volcanoes]], and NOT on [[Cascade Range]], which needs to variegate its content and also not fudge the issue further about where the range ends or doesn't end. Focussing on volcanoes is going to complicate that.[[User:Skookum1|Skookum1]] 14:53, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
 
== WP:BC banner and DAB pages ==
 
Regarding {{tl|BCproject}} on [[Talk:Lillooet]] : No rules, but consider the purpose of the project banner. It doesn't claim ownership of page. The class system helps the [[Wikipedia:Version 1.0 Editorial Team|Wikipedia Editorial Team]] for its assesment, while the importance system helps [[Wikipedia:WikiProject British Columbia|WikiProject British Columbia]] editors to establish priorities. I fail to see the purpose of a wikiproject banner on a dab page (or on a redirect page, for that matter). As usual, if you think otherwise, please feel free to restore. Thanks. --[[User:Qyd|Qyd]] 20:17, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
 
:[[WP:CANADA]] has a "type" parameter in the {{tl|WPCANADA}} banner, that allows indexing pages as DAB, Template, List, etc. It doesn't work very good there (conflicts with class rating), and has not been implemented in the {{tl|BCproject}} banner. I don't know weather it should be added, as I don't see the use, but it is definitely possible (if complicated). Cheers. --[[User:Qyd|Qyd]] 20:27, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
 
== Slesse Mountain ==
 
Oh, I would think anything that was or is part of a volcano would go into the Category. [[Volcanic Neck|neck]]s are just the hard lava core of an old, eroded, [[extinct volcano]]. [[User:Black Tusk|Black Tusk]] 21:64, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
 
:But is ''Slesse''? That's my impression, just by looking at it; but Spireguy thinks it's just part of the Chilliwack batholith. Looks like a volcanic chimney/throat to me, but I'm not a geologist. So I was asking you if it ''was''. Even as part of a batholith (a solidified subsurface sea of magma originally, right?) it could still have been an upthrust of something "trying" to reach the surface, or that even did; a thrust-up from the rest of the fiery goo at least.[[User:Skookum1|Skookum1]] 20:46, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
 
It looks like it has out cropings and the black rock might be [[basalt]] so it would be a neck. [[User:Black Tusk|Black Tusk]] 12:56, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
 
It is basalt, as I recall from the www.cascadeclimbers.com site, and also I think on bivouac.com. But we need a proper cite to class it as volcanic (from where Spireguy/Wiki is coming from).[[User:Skookum1|Skookum1]] 21:05, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
 
I can't find anything about it ether. [[User:Black Tusk|Black Tusk]] 23:67, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
 
==Request for Mediation==
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|A [[WP:RFM|Request for Mediation]] to which you are a party was not accepted and has been delisted. You can find more information on the mediation subpage, [[Wikipedia:Requests for mediation/Hollywood North]].
::::::::''For the Mediation Committee,'' <span style="font-family: Verdana">[[User:Essjay|<font color="#7b68ee">'''Essjay'''</font>]] [[User talk:Essjay|<font color="#7b68ee">(<small>Talk</small>)</font>]]</span>
 
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You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{Tlc|proposed deletion/dated}} notice, but please explain why in your [[Help:edit summary|edit summary]] or on [[Talk:Hwlitsum First Nation|the article's talk page]].
== Need cat for Okanagan people (Syilx) ==
 
Please consider improving the page to address the issues raised. Removing {{Tlc|proposed deletion/dated}} will stop the [[Wikipedia:Proposed deletion|proposed deletion process]], but other [[Wikipedia:deletion process|deletion process]]es exist. In particular, the [[Wikipedia:Criteria for speedy deletion|speedy deletion]] process can result in deletion without discussion, and [[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion|articles for deletion]] allows discussion to reach [[Wikipedia:Consensus|consensus]] for deletion.<!-- Template:Proposed deletion notify -->
Done, but it's pretty empty. I'm not sure I could defend it if anyone challenged it, so get writing the language article. =) - [[User:Themightyquill|TheMightyQuill]] 18:48, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
 
'''<span style="color: red;">This bot DID NOT nominate any of your contributions for deletion; please refer to the [[Help:Introduction to navigating Wikipedia/4|history]] of each individual page for details.</span>''' Thanks, [[User:FastilyBot|FastilyBot]] ([[User talk:FastilyBot|talk]]) 09:01, 27 July 2022 (UTC)
== PSAC ==
== [[Wikipedia:Proposed deletion|Proposed deletion]] of [[:Cranberry Junction]] ==
[[File:Ambox warning yellow.svg|left|link=|alt=Notice|48px|]]
 
The article [[:Cranberry Junction]] has been [[Wikipedia:Proposed deletion|proposed for deletion]]&#32;because of the following concern:
There definatly should be several re-directs. Since the HBC corporate page lists it as Puget Sound I think we might want to go with that, then re-direct all the other variations. I know there are many variations. Thoughts? [[User:Aboutmovies|Aboutmovies]] 22:50, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
<blockquote>'''Appears to be nothing more than a road junction, could not find any coverage besides "BC Geographical Names" that describes this as a community. [[Cranberry, British Columbia]] would not be an appropriate redirect target as it is a different ___location entirely.'''</blockquote>
 
While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, pages may be [[WP:DEL#REASON|deleted for any of several reasons]].
:Well, I think it should be the proper incorporation name- with the apostrophe-s as it appears in all the major historical resources (which the HBC corporate site, being corporate, doesn't pay any attention to - they're in Winnipeg btw, and now owned by Zeller's...or is it the other way around?). But let me fly it by a couple of other BC Wikipedians and I'll get back to you tonight about it. The bit about it being founded to encourage settlement sounds like it came from the HBC corporate site; and no, the HBC was overall very hostile to settlement, especially in Puget Sound; more on this later; but PSAC was meant to be a money-making operation, notably connected with the sale of staples (dairy, meat, grain etc) to the Russian America Fur Company.....[[User:Skookum1|Skookum1]] 22:59, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
 
You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{Tlc|proposed deletion/dated}} notice, but please explain why in your [[Help:edit summary|edit summary]] or on [[Talk:Cranberry Junction|the article's talk page]].
::Puget Sound wins the google search test (500 +), followed by Puget's in a distant second, than Pugets with only 50 something. Probably the guiding principle here should be most common usage, as per Wiki naming conventions, even if the most common is not necessarily the legally correct version. [[User:Bobanny|Bobanny]] 00:12, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
 
Please consider improving the page to address the issues raised. Removing {{Tlc|proposed deletion/dated}} will stop the [[Wikipedia:Proposed deletion|proposed deletion process]], but other [[Wikipedia:deletion process|deletion process]]es exist. In particular, the [[Wikipedia:Criteria for speedy deletion|speedy deletion]] process can result in deletion without discussion, and [[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion|articles for deletion]] allows discussion to reach [[Wikipedia:Consensus|consensus]] for deletion.<!-- Template:Proposed deletion notify --> –[[User:Dlthewave|dlthewave]] [[User_talk:Dlthewave|☎]] 17:11, 5 September 2022 (UTC)
:::I was looking around in some of the settlement negotiation documents from the 1860s and it uses both spellings.[http://www.canadiana.org/ECO/PageView/14515/0019?id=51e3fc7fdc2d6c84] So hopefully you can get a more definative answer. I added some, but left the settlement part in for now. Unfortunately I found few useful sights from Canada, they mainly just said that the PSAC was in their area without any details, maybe you will have better luck. PS it might be time to archive some discussions here as your page is taking a long time to load.[[User:Aboutmovies|Aboutmovies]] 00:18, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
:::::[[Wikisource]] has a full copy of the Oregon Treaty....but it may be in modernized spelling; don't have the link handy will find it later when I get home, or just search at Wikisource. It's also on-line here and there, maybe somewhere an original scan?[[User:Skookum1|Skookum1]] 04:06, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
 
== Congrats ==
:::: '=0 ....well, gee, so do I! ;-) Yeah, getting to be time for another archive I guesss. Anyway, I've polled half-a-dozen BC Wikipedians here, those who I know are experienced with BC/NW history anyway; Bobanny true to form was right back quick, but we'll see else who pops in before this evening; the Google-rating thing is kind of a standard; what triggered this off was that if the "archaic possessive" form of the company's name was going to be used, it should have been apostrophized; it's usually given in modern writeups as simply "Puget Sound", whether in ref to the company or to the sound, even if the sources had had the apostrophe; but I'm not sure if there are corporate naming conventions around. Let's wait and see....saw the bit about settlement re Simpson's intent....hmmm; the settlement agenda definitely wasn't taken seriously by Douglas, IMO (see that book by Hauka on [[McGowan's War]], if you can find it, as he discusses the ways Douglas made things difficult for settlement in there...).
 
Your name change to [[Indigenous North American stickball]] from years ago made it to the Google homepage. — '''[[User talk:Crumpled Fire|<span style="font-family: Lucida Fax; color: #2695A9">Crumpled Fire</span>]]'''<small> • ''[[Special:Contributions/Crumpled Fire|contribs]]'' •</small> 05:59, 1 November 2022 (UTC)
:::I don't have any knowledge of this body, but I do know about the lack of apostrophe in historical possessives (e.g., Browns River on Vancouver Island). So I suppose I'm agnostic. [[User:Fishhead64|Fishhead64]] 01:18, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
==[[Wikipedia:Criteria for speedy deletion|Speedy deletion]] nomination of [[:List of Development Regions of British Columbia]]==
[[File:Ambox warning pn.svg|48px|left|alt=|link=]]
{{Quote box|quote=<p>If this is the first article that you have created, you may want to read [[WP:Your first article|the guide to writing your first article]].</p><p>You may want to consider using the [[Wikipedia:Article wizard|Article Wizard]] to help you create articles.</p>|width=20%|align=right}}
A tag has been placed on [[:List of Development Regions of British Columbia]] requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under [[WP:CSD#G14|section G14 of the criteria for speedy deletion]], because it is a disambiguation page which either
:::*disambiguates only one extant Wikipedia page and whose title ends in "(disambiguation)" (i.e., there is a [[Wikipedia:Disambiguation#Is there a primary topic?|primary topic]]);
:::* disambiguates zero extant Wikipedia pages, regardless of its title; or
:::*is an [[Wikipedia:Orphan|orphaned]] redirect with a title ending in "(disambiguation)" that does not target a disambiguation page or page that has a disambiguation-like function.
Under the [[WP:CSD#Articles|criteria for speedy deletion]], such pages may be deleted at any time. Please [[Wikipedia:MOSDAB|see the disambiguation page guidelines for more information]].
 
If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may '''contest the nomination''' by [[:List of Development Regions of British Columbia|visiting the page]] and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with [[Wikipedia:List of policies|Wikipedia's policies and guidelines]]. If the page is deleted, and you wish to retrieve the deleted material for future reference or improvement, then please contact the {{Querylink|Special:Log|qs=type=delete&page=List+of+Development+Regions+of+British+Columbia|deleting administrator}}. <!-- Template:Db-disambig-notice --> <!-- Template:Db-csd-notice-custom --> [[User:NmWTfs85lXusaybq|NmWTfs85lXusaybq]] ([[User talk:NmWTfs85lXusaybq|talk]]) 03:46, 7 June 2023 (UTC)
::I had not heard of this company before, but I offer these thoughts on general principles:<br>I don't think "most familiar form" rightly applies in this case, because this company is not well enough known. (Puget Sound itself is another matter, of course.) I say use the actual name under which the company was incorporated, but if that was "Pugets Sound..." then modernise the possessive to "Puget's", whereas "Pugets" is archaic. I happened to read, lately, that the writing of the possessive form was in transition, at the time concerned, from using no apostrophe to using one. But this is a mere matter of notation -- a difference in the manner of ''writing'' the word concerned, not a difference in the word itself. In other words, if the incorporation used "Pugets", then the word so indicated is, in modern notation, "Puget's", yet the same word as ever.<br>(It is curious that "Puget Sound" did not fossilise as "Pugets Sound", in the way that, for instance, "Grays Harbor" and a number of other "Grays" this-and-thats did. I suspect this was because the sound of the "s" at the end of "Pugets" naturally became attached to "Sound" through merger with the sound of the initial "S" -- or, to put that another way, the "s" dropped off of "Pugets" because the doubled "s"-sound was less easily pronounced.)<br>-- [[User:Lonewolf BC|Lonewolf BC]] 03:49, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
== [[Wikipedia:Proposed deletion|Proposed deletion]] of [[:List of Development Regions of British Columbia]] ==
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The article [[:List of Development Regions of British Columbia]] has been [[Wikipedia:Proposed deletion|proposed for deletion]]&#32;because of the following concern:
:::Yeah, that's probably why; if we looked around we could probably come up with other examples (Howe's Sound, actually...). But this is getting interesting in an arcane sort of way. Reading back through everybody's posts it occurred to me that my reference to the sources using "Puget's" is what I've seen in the Akriggs and Hauka and so on (if Hauka uses it, which I can't remember just now; I'll check in a few local histories which cite some material and see there); point is I haven't seen what the actual period documents look like, either the charter or any correspondence or news items, except as quoted by later writers. I know Stephen Hume at the ''Sun'' made reference to PSAC in a series on Metis life in the BC/Northwest fur trade a few weeks ago so I'll try and see what he used. Puget Sound itself was originally Puget's Sound, but the Wiki article is [[Puget Sound]]; although in this case it's a company, and there's that distinction between [[Hudson Bay]] and the [[Hudson's Bay Company]] that's not just a standard in Wikipedia; even though "Hudson's Bay" is the original form of "Hudson Bay" as it's on the map now.....gotta eat and go have a life for a few hours. All food for thought, what's here, though....PSAC supplied meat, dairy and produce to Victoria, and actually owned several farms around there, in Cadboro Bay, Metchosin etc; although some were HBC owned directly. This topic actually has enough meat to be an FA, y'know....[[User:Skookum1|Skookum1]] 04:05, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
<blockquote>'''This list containing zero extant Wikipedia pages meets [[WP:G14]], because G14 also applies to pages that perform a disambiguation-like function (such as [[WP:SIA|set index articles]] or lists). I use [[WP:PROD]] instead per [[User_talk:Liz#A_note_on_deletion_of_lists_under_G14|Liz's suggestion]].'''</blockquote>
 
While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, pages may be [[WP:DEL#REASON|deleted for any of several reasons]].
I went ahead and copied all the discussion from here and my talk page to the [[Talk:Pugets Sound Agricultural Company|talk page]] of the [[Pugets Sound Agricultural Company|article]]. That way if in 3 years and we are all dead and someone asks why the article name is Puget/Pugets/Puget's they will have a reference. Also made the two other pages and re-directed them to the current article until we determine the proper name. Then we can move the text and what not. I also go add a notice on the top with the other common variations of the name. [[User:Aboutmovies|Aboutmovies]] 21:26, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
 
You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{Tlc|proposed deletion/dated}} notice, but please explain why in your [[Help:edit summary|edit summary]] or on [[Talk:List of Development Regions of British Columbia|the article's talk page]].
== [[Erik Bornmann]] ==
 
Please consider improving the page to address the issues raised. Removing {{Tlc|proposed deletion/dated}} will stop the [[Wikipedia:Proposed deletion|proposed deletion process]], but other [[Wikipedia:deletion process|deletion process]]es exist. In particular, the [[Wikipedia:Criteria for speedy deletion|speedy deletion]] process can result in deletion without discussion, and [[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion|articles for deletion]] allows discussion to reach [[Wikipedia:Consensus|consensus]] for deletion.<!-- Template:Proposed deletion notify --> [[User:NmWTfs85lXusaybq|NmWTfs85lXusaybq]] ([[User talk:NmWTfs85lXusaybq|talk]]) 03:21, 8 June 2023 (UTC)
Actually, as stated in [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Erik_Bornmann&diff=prev&oldid=101451914 my edit summary], it was a [[WP:RFPP#Erik_Bornmann_.28edit.7Ctalk.7Chistory.7Clinks.7Cwatch.7Clogs.29|RFPP request]] to unblock. I am actually surprised that you'd think that (not in a bad way). Futhermore, it seems that the editor only used two sock puppets which probably stopped. Long-term semi-protection is never the answer, articles are normally only protected for a few days. If an article was semi-protected for weeks because of only one user, that would sort-of defeat the whole idea of a [[wiki]]. If the user comes back, you may either [[WP:AIV|ask for him to be blocked]] (specifying he is a [[WP:SOCK|sock]]) or [[WP:RFPP|ask for re-protection]]. [[User:Cbrown1023|Cbrown1023]] 01:39, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
== Nomination of [[:Moran, British Columbia]] for deletion ==
<div class="afd-notice">
<div class="floatleft" style="margin-bottom:0">[[File:Ambox warning orange.svg|48px|alt=|link=]]</div>A discussion is taking place as to whether the article [[:Moran, British Columbia]] is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to [[Wikipedia:List of policies and guidelines|Wikipedia's policies and guidelines]] or whether it should be [[Wikipedia:Deletion policy|deleted]].
 
The article will be discussed at '''[[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Moran, British Columbia]]''' until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.
== Stó:lō Nation spelling issues ==
 
Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article until the discussion has finished.
Again, I see your point, but I don't think it's a big deal. There are all kinds of words in the English language with multiple spelling possibilities, which wikipedia finds ways to work around with redirects. Just think of British/American/Canadian spelling differences. The diacritics on Stó:lō do probably require people to copy and paste, but so do [[Québécois]] and [[Chloë Sevigny]]. Alternately, for those who can remember how to spell it correctly, the characters are always available at the bottom of the page. - [[User:Themightyquill|TheMightyQuill]] 19:10, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
<!-- Template:Afd notice --></div> –[[User:Dlthewave|dlthewave]] [[User_talk:Dlthewave|☎]] 04:14, 20 September 2023 (UTC)
:I agree that it's a little weird when a main article uses one spelling, and the category uses another. Wikipolicy is a little fuzzy, from what I understand. On the one hand, the most correct spelling should be used, on the other, the most common. Furthermore, if two spellings are perfectly correct/common, then whichever one is typed first is the keeper. It might make sense to change the diacritic in the template name to match all the other articles. I doubt it would be contentious. On the other hand, adding or removing diacritics completely might raise more of a fuss. - [[User:Themightyquill|TheMightyQuill]] 21:54, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
==[[:Category:Clans and Houses of the indigenous peoples of the Pacific Northwest Coast]] has been nominated for renaming==
::Oh, I understand that last bit, for sure; although I'm wary of introducing MORE diacriticals, as my friend [[User:OldManRivers]] is doing with [[Skwxwu7mesh]]....I've made some changes to the templates already without anybody screaming bloody murder (not yet, anyway) so this little tweak can't hurt, especially because it will conform to the main-article usage. Any idea about how to change the title of a template - the Ktunaxa Kinbasket one is currently titled "Treaty Council" rather than "Tribal Council" as it should be, given the standard in the other native templates, except for {{tl:First Nations on Vancouver Island}} which as OldManRivers has pointed out and I've come to conclude from working with the band/gov articles linked through it should be broken up into Tribal Councils and/or ethnic groupings. Right now I'm trying to sort out a tangle of redundant article titles up in Tsimshian country (see [[Talk:Coast Tsimshian]] for starters), and still haven't found those stray Gitksan/Gitxsan pages yet.... (NB Gitxsan and Nisga'a content articles do NOT get [[:Category:Tsimshian]], although I suspect you're aware of that....).[[User:Skookum1|Skookum1]] 22:00, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
 
<div class="floatleft" style="margin-bottom:0">[[File:Ambox warning orange.svg|48px|alt=|link=]]</div>[[:Category:Clans and Houses of the indigenous peoples of the Pacific Northwest Coast]] has been nominated for renaming. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the [[Wikipedia:Categorization|categorization]] guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at '''[[Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 October 31#Category:Clans and Houses of the indigenous peoples of the Pacific Northwest Coast|the category's entry]]''' on the [[Wikipedia:Categories for discussion|categories for discussion]] page.<!-- Template:Cfd-notify--> Thank you. [[User:Smasongarrison|Mason]] ([[User talk:Smasongarrison|talk]]) 04:48, 31 October 2023 (UTC)
== BC Project Article Assessment ==
== [[Wikipedia:Proposed deletion|Proposed deletion]] of [[:List of heli-skiing operators in British Columbia]] ==
[[File:Ambox warning yellow.svg|left|link=|alt=Notice|48px|]]
 
The article [[:List of heli-skiing operators in British Columbia]] has been [[Wikipedia:Proposed deletion|proposed for deletion]]&#32;because of the following concern:
Saw your edit summary query of assessment of Elk Range article. I have added some discussion at [[Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_British_Columbia/Assessment#Loose_guidelines_for_ratings]] a few days ago that lay out how I understand this. Are you thinking that an unremarkable mountain or minor range should be rated low? The way I have been doing it may be putting too much in Mid, not sure, what do you think? [[User:KenWalker|KenWalker]] | [[User talk:KenWalker|Talk]] 21:47, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
<blockquote>'''Unneeded spam magnet; we already have [[List of ski areas and resorts in Canada]]. There are only two non-list entries in [[:Category:Heli-skiing in British Columbia]], and one of them has no secondary sources. Redirecting to [[List of ski areas and resorts in Canada]] doesn't make sense as there is no mention of heli-skiing besides a link to this page.'''</blockquote>
 
While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, pages may be [[WP:DEL#REASON|deleted for any of several reasons]].
:Any rating is better than none, as you or someone else observed. But for mountain ranges and landforms I've only been putting major subranges at "mid", unless they're high profile e.g. close to Vancouver or notable in some other way. The Elk Range are a subrange of either the Front Ranges or Main Ranges of the Rockies ([[Ranges of the Rocky Mountains]] uses http://www.peakbagger.com's analysis/formula (hmnm that link's not right but I can't be bothered to look it up; maybe [[Ranges of the Canadian Rockies]]??, which I find hard to un-entangle as I'm used to definitions set out in Holland's ''Landforms of British Columbia''...); and fairly minor relative to others. No biggie, just wondering whether there was something about the range I didn't know that might make it notable. The Bugaboos, for example, are a minor subrange that are more than "low" in importance (i.e. a subrange of the Purcells, which are a subrange of the [[Columbia Mountains]]....can't remember what rating I gave the Purcells, if I gave them one; the Columbias are "high"). The Premiers Range in the Cariboos, for instance, might be "mid" or even "high" (because of who they're named after...), but other subranges of the Cariboos would only be "low". BTW was it you or Fishhead64 maybe who recently archived their talkpage with the "permanent link method" - it's time for me to archive, and that sounds like what I should use, given the way I x-ref everything in later comments/talkpage diatribes....(btw see [[Talk:Oregon Country]] - I'm recusing myself as it's getting totally inane - justifications for the Provisional Government of Oregon withot any mention of British/HBC position on government, and nothing at all about native government, never mind the speciousness of the points the kid raises - yeay, the kid, although he/she takes offense at me slamming them for only being a student (BA actually, apparently, but so what?) and presuming to denounce and want to dismiss "joint occupancy" as the standard interpretation of the [[Anglo-American Convention of 1818]] and basically trot out some original research on what THEY think it means....I'm recusing myself partly becase I've already stepped over the line on [[WP:CIVIL]] there (as has he/she) and I can't be bothered with the aggravation; garbage in, garbage out, and there's always more garbage, is what I've realized about Wikipedia; and in the case of isses involving American "historical imperialism" it seems hopeless.....[[User:Skookum1|Skookum1]] 22:06, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
 
You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{Tlc|proposed deletion/dated}} notice, but please explain why in your [[Help:edit summary|edit summary]] or on [[Talk:List of heli-skiing operators in British Columbia|the article's talk page]].
== [[Lytton First Nation|Lytton]] and [[Kluskus First Nation]] ==
 
Please consider improving the page to address the issues raised. Removing {{Tlc|proposed deletion/dated}} will stop the [[Wikipedia:Proposed deletion|proposed deletion process]], but other [[Wikipedia:deletion process|deletion process]]es exist. In particular, the [[Wikipedia:Criteria for speedy deletion|speedy deletion]] process can result in deletion without discussion, and [[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion|articles for deletion]] allows discussion to reach [[Wikipedia:Consensus|consensus]] for deletion.<!-- Template:Proposed deletion notify --> [[User:Helpful Raccoon|Helpful Raccoon]] ([[User talk:Helpful Raccoon|talk]]) 19:54, 11 February 2025 (UTC)
Hi, section headings without any text seem a bit pointless to me. I understand your thought process but in reality these tend to be left empty. If it's not clear to users what content they should add, then perhaps it shouldn't be a separate article at all. Consider adding a [[Template:Underconstruction|Underconstruction]] or [[Template:Inuse|Inuse]] tag to your articles if you need time to fill in the blanks. [[User:Jvhertum|Jvhertum]] 11:19, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
 
== Suspension of autopatrolled permission due to inactivity ==
== Bro XII ==
 
{{Ivmbox|Hello Skookum1. Following [[Special:PermanentLink/1290054377#RfC: Inactivity requirements for autopatrolled|a request for comment]] in May 2025, the community has decided to implement an activity requirement for the [[WP:Autopatrolled|autopatrolled permission]]. Because your account has not edited in the last three years, the autopatrolled permission has been removed from your account. This action is purely procedural and does not affect your ability to create articles; if you return to actively creating articles, you may request that the permission be restored through [[Wikipedia:Requests for permissions/Autopatrolled|the normal process]]. When returning, please consider taking some time to re-familiarize yourself with common practices and how they may have changed over the past few years if you wish to request the permission back. Thank you for all of your contributions to Wikipedia, and we hope to see you again soon. [[User:MediaWiki message delivery|MediaWiki message delivery]] ([[User talk:MediaWiki message delivery|talk]]) 06:19, 14 May 2025 (UTC)|Wikipedia Autopatrolled.svg|imagesize=40px}}<!-- https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?oldid=1290123480#Notification_to_affected_accounts -->
. . . . I went and made redirect for Edward Arthur Wilson and also plopped him on the Wilson and Brother dab pages.....
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* good deal, I wouldn't have thought of all of those steps
::I'm going through "redirect hell" on certain things now; e.g. look at "what links here" on [[Oowekyala language]] and [[Wuikinuxv people]], for instance......[[User:Skookum1|Skookum1]] 18:21, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
 
== [[Wikipedia:Proposed deletion|Proposed deletion]] of [[:Aberdeen, Abbotsford]] ==
Garnet Basque's write-up in ''Lost Bonanzas of British Columbia'' is a doozy...(and well-done); you can see by my redlink there I think Basque deserves an article as a notable BC historian;
[[File:Ambox warning yellow.svg|left|link=|alt=Notice|48px|]]
* haven't heard of him??
**Ever heard of the Basque Ranch, up by Ashcroft Manor? You know when you're on Hwy 1 past Spences Bridge and you climb up out of the Thompson Canyon and you're in that beautiful open sage country, kinda rolling, and then there's some irrigation? That's the [[Basque Ranch]], and it's one of the oldest in the province (like all the ranches around there and Lillooet, actually); Garnet's like fourth-generation or something and has written copiously on early BC history of all kinds; "truck stop histories" focussing on gold, eccentric characters, ghost towns, pioneer life - "white man's history" pretty much except my experience of these guys is that, while their books don't dwell on the travesties committed against Indians as academic histories do, they're often more in touch with the natives in their own lives than the academics ever will be; they're also more likely to talk about the travesties committed ''by'' natives against each other than the academic historians want to admit to....But Basque is pretty much an authority on 19th Century BC; that's why my remark in that Tyee blog about him being who should be teaching BC history instead of the over-pedigreed twits in charge of it (nearly all of them from somewhere else, who have no training in BC history, but are in charge of handing out degrees on same....). Keep your eyes open for anything by him; he's not literature, but generally he's a great read. ''Lost Bonanzas'' covers the sinking of the ''[[SS Pacific]]'', the ''Lost Dragon Mine'' up by Quesnel, Bulldog Kelly, the sinking of the Skeena steamer the ''SS Mount Royal'' and last but not least, Brother XII, and a bunch more; and in more detail than I'm used to seeing in Basque.....I'd usually written him off before as a family historian, like Mel Rothenburger, the former mayor of Kamloops who's a great-grandson of Donald McLean/Samadlin (if you know your Chilcotin War you'll recognize the name) and also wrote on his half-uncles the [[Wild McLean Boys]], who definitely need an article (one of BC's most celebrated murder cases of the 19th Century, who almost re-triggered the Interior Rebellion in the 1870s which Dufferin's visit had managed to pre-empt; alcoholic, fetal-alcoholically retarded halfbreeds, they went on a killing rampage across the Nicola-Thompson Country; look for ''Who Killed Johnny Ussher?'' which is Rotheburger's account of their killing spree; his account ''The Chilcotin War'' was among the first I read about that affair, and even though academics and p.c. writers consider him a racist and a family apologist (McLean gets a lot of bad press....) there's bits in that book about the split nature/sentiment of the white community towards the Chilcotin uprising that I still haven't seen in the more formal academic writeps; [[Terry Glavin]]'s a friend of mine and his ''Nemaia: The Unconquered Country'' is a great read, but like most modern native-friendly writers he doesn't really give early white British Columbia fair treatment; although at least he doesn't focus on the baddies/mouthpieces and make generalizations about the rest of "us" in the process (my family didn't move here until '46, although I'm totally assimilated as a British Columbian.....); Rothenburger, anyway, writes a lot of "truckstop histories" like Basque does; but Basque writes a lot more, and a lot better....
 
The article [[:Aberdeen, Abbotsford]] has been [[Wikipedia:Proposed deletion|proposed for deletion]]&#32;because of the following concern:
T.W. Paterson also (Heritage House mag-size series).
<blockquote>'''Does not meet Wikipedia's general notability guidelines. [[User:Aldorwyn of Rivendell|Aldorwyn of Rivendell]] ([[User talk:Aldorwyn of Rivendell|talk]]) 12:36, 21 July 2025 (UTC)'''</blockquote>
* him neither, , ,
**I've only got T.W. Paterson's ''Ghost Towns and Mining Camps of British Columbi, Vol 2'' (Similkameen, Okangan, Boundary) and ''British Columbia: The Pioneer Years''. They're not studied in university courses on BC history, and should be encouraged-reading for high school kids; but they don't tub-thump on "gender, race and class issues" like good little historiographers are supposed to do these days. Basque's books are the kind you might find in a truckstop's souvenir-bookrack (in fact that's where I found my first ones by him...), and most of them are produced by Heritage House, which is a spin-off I ''think'' of J.J. Douglas, or was; no longer in print; MacLeod's Books at Richards & Pender usually has stuff of this kind, but it varies as to what's in stock (antiquarian bookstores being like that...); y'never know around island bookshops, but there you're more likely to find the Island equivalents, as I know the market there is for Island history, not Interior.[[User:Skookum1|Skookum1]] 18:21, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
 
While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, pages may be [[WP:DEL#REASON|deleted for any of several reasons]].
Do you want to tackle the Reincarnation of Isis (that was her sobriquet, one of his paramours, the last and flashiest one I think) or should we pawn that one off on Fishhead64 (he's an Anglican priest, but De Courcy Island is on his beat more than yours I think.
* I am striking out "Reincarnation of Isis" . . .??
[[User:KenWalker|KenWalker]] | [[User talk:KenWalker|Talk]] 15:53, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
 
You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{Tlc|proposed deletion/dated}} notice, but please explain why in your [[Help:edit summary|edit summary]] or on [[Talk:Aberdeen, Abbotsford|the article's talk page]].
**Was that still in the article? I thought I'd taken her out, or someone had...Yeah, she's part of the story; and it's quite a wild story. I guess the thoeosophist/Golden Dawn types aren't in your bailiwick; this guy ranks with [[Aleister Crowley]] for nastiness, although The Beast (Crowley) was a lot more intellectual, fearsomely so (I think his autobiog was, lesse, "Confessions of a Dope Fiend" - he was one of the first celebrity junkies, and proudly so....); and maybe more magickal than Brother XII, who was more of a charlatan/madman (though not according to those who'd been enslaved by him....). DeCourcy Island, by the way, was named for the commander of one of the British vessels involved in the [[Pig War]]; Reid Island, which figures in the [[Joe Silvey]] story ("Portuguese Joe"), was also IIRC part of the Brother XII thing. That nobody's made a movie of this is remarkable; and if anyone ever does I hope it's British-producedor even American-produced (with British actors) so it doesn't get turned into cheese curds by Canadian money/ideas/style...I feel the same way about [[McGowan's War]]....anyway, there's a bunch of stuff online about Brother XII somewhere but there's also half-a-dozen good writeups; Basque's is one of them, but I'm wary of tackling it because of my tendency to pastiche/condense simply by rejigging syntax; if you're interested I could either sandbox it or transcribe it into an email....[[User:Skookum1|Skookum1]] 18:21, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
 
Please consider improving the page to address the issues raised. Removing {{Tlc|proposed deletion/dated}} will stop the [[Wikipedia:Proposed deletion|proposed deletion process]], but other [[Wikipedia:deletion process|deletion process]]es exist. In particular, the [[Wikipedia:Criteria for speedy deletion|speedy deletion]] process can result in deletion without discussion, and [[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion|articles for deletion]] allows discussion to reach [[Wikipedia:Consensus|consensus]] for deletion.<!-- Template:Proposed deletion notify -->
==Oregon Country==
It is an interesting discussion, but delves too technically into issues of which I am unacquainted for me to be of much help, I fear. Having said that, I agree that we need to reflect accurately both the situation on the ground against the backdrop of the actual legal disposition of the territory. As [[Oregon Country]] reads now - at least to my innocent eyes - that balance seems to be struck, with the exception of the rather gratuitous, point-scoring mention of McLoughlin (I mean, who cares?). I have, unfortunately, too many other fish to fry to spend time researching this and entering the fray. [[User:Fishhead64|Fishhead64]] 21:58, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
 
This is an automated notification. Please refer to the [[Special:PageHistory/Aberdeen, Abbotsford|page's history]] for further information. [[User:DatBot|DatBot]] ([[User talk:DatBot|talk]]) 00:39, 22 July 2025 (UTC)
== Vancouver Island Ranges Map ==
 
== [[Wikipedia:Proposed deletion|Proposed deletion]] of [[:Aberdeen, Abbotsford]] ==
Thanks for the work on this map. It will be an excellent addition to the article. It turned out really well. I wasn't able to get the link to the source to work, just where do you find the information? I was surprised to the the extent of areas that are not considered part of any range. Interesting! [[User:KenWalker|KenWalker]] | [[User talk:KenWalker|Talk]] 16:15, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
[[File:Ambox warning yellow.svg|left|link=|alt=Notice|48px|]]
 
The article [[:Aberdeen, Abbotsford]] has been [[Wikipedia:Proposed deletion|proposed for deletion]]&#32;because of the following concern:
==BC lakes==
<blockquote>'''Does not meet Wikipedia's general notability guidelines. [[User:Aldorwyn of Rivendell|Aldorwyn of Rivendell]] ([[User talk:Aldorwyn of Rivendell|talk]]) 12:36, 21 July 2025 (UTC)'''</blockquote>
 
While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, pages may be [[WP:DEL#REASON|deleted for any of several reasons]].
You're right about the naming convention; I just wanted to hold off on moving the articles until I could ''verify'' whether there were actually communities of the same names or not. [[User:Bearcat|Bearcat]] 19:28, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
 
You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{Tlc|proposed deletion/dated}} notice, but please explain why in your [[Help:edit summary|edit summary]] or on [[Talk:Aberdeen, Abbotsford|the article's talk page]].
== First Nations stub ==
 
Please consider improving the page to address the issues raised. Removing {{Tlc|proposed deletion/dated}} will stop the [[Wikipedia:Proposed deletion|proposed deletion process]], but other [[Wikipedia:deletion process|deletion process]]es exist. In particular, the [[Wikipedia:Criteria for speedy deletion|speedy deletion]] process can result in deletion without discussion, and [[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion|articles for deletion]] allows discussion to reach [[Wikipedia:Consensus|consensus]] for deletion.<!-- Template:Proposed deletion notify --> [[User:Aldorwyn of Rivendell|Aldorwyn of Rivendell]] ([[User talk:Aldorwyn of Rivendell|talk]]) 10:00, 22 July 2025 (UTC)
I think that the best place for that sort of information is the stub category page; if the WPJ has a "banner", then feel free to place it there. (Or else a plain ol' wikilink.) [[User:Alai|Alai]] 07:40, 25 January 2007 (UTC)