Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Pagaian Cosmology: Difference between revisions

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===[[Pagaian Cosmology]]===

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:''The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this page. ''

The result was '''PENDINGDELETE'''. [[User:Bucketsofg|<fontspan colorstyle="color:#DF0001;"><b>Buck</b></fontspan><b><fontspan colorstyle="color:green;">ets</fontspan></b><fontspan colorstyle="color:grey;"><b>ofg</b></fontspan>]] 01:22, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

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===[[Pagaian Cosmology]]===

The result was '''PENDING'''. [[User:Bucketsofg|<font color="#DF0001"><b>Buck</b></font><b><font color="green">ets</font></b><font color="grey"><b>ofg</b></font>]] 01:22, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

PRODded. There was a complaint against the deletion placed on the article's Talk page, thus making it a contested PROD. This is a procedural nomination. [[User:Zoe]]|[[User talk:Zoe|(talk)]] 04:05, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

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* '''Delete''' as non-notable new age neologism. low G hits, mostly for the book, which appears to be a small press or self published effort[[User:Artw|Artw]] 04:15, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

* '''Retain''' PaGaian Cosmology is practised by a number of groups in Australia. Other groups in the UK, US, Australia use the book and Cosmology therein for ritual practice of this ecospirtuality. The book is entirely based on Livingstone's PhD thesis. It has been reviewed in the following publications<br />

::*EINGANA The Journal of the Victorian Association for Environmental Education, Vol 29 Number 1, April 2006. (Review by Ruth Rosenhek, environmental justice activist)<br />

::*Women-Church: An Australian Journal of Feminist Studies in Religion, issue 38, Autumn 2006, p. 42-43. (by Lynne Hume, Associate Professor in the School of History, Philosophy, Religion and Classics at the University of Queensland)<br />

::*Journeys newsletter, Winter 2006 Volume 14, No. 1

::*(by Elizabeth Cain, Jungian Psychotherapist and Spiritual Counsellor) and Pagan journal The Crossroads, Issue 3, Litha 2005<br />

::Glenys and her work are well respected among members of the goddess spirituality network within Australia.[[User:Wordsarewonderful]]|[[User talk:Wordsarewonderful|(talk)]]--[[User:Wordsarewonderful|waw]] 04:40, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

::::* '''AfD etiquette:'''If you are the primary author or otherwise have a vested interest in the article, say so openly, clearly base your vote on the deletion policy, and vote only once, like everyone else. Signed [[User:Jeepday|Jeepday]] 14:31, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

::::* '''Comment''' I am the author, Glenys Livingstone, and I am sorry if I have done something wrong in the procedure as I gather I have by the warning above, but by what was said here about "your vote on the deletion policy, and vote only once," I understood that it '''was''' a ballot - and particularly so on this page. Please explain. I thought then that the discussion was really happening on talk pages elsewhere - which is where I have posted my comments thus far, and waiting dutifully to come to this page only once and "vote" as we were apparently being told to do. So can you please clarify what is correct? I thought it was ''encouraged'' to alert people who might care about the outcome of ths AFD to come here and support it, and also to edit the topic itself, as I have encouraged them to do. Like me most I know need encouragement to come to this auspicious site and edit or say ''anything'' ... in case it is ''wrong'' or feeling like they don't have "clout" and don't bother.[[User:Pagaian|Pagaian]] 22:55, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

::**Glenys, perhaps I can clear up some of these issues for you. When most people hear the word "vote", what they think it means is "oh, each person comes by, casts a 'ballot' for one of the choices, and then an answer is calculated solely from the totals of the ballots." A deletion discussion is definitely ''not'' a vote in that sense, because the answer is ''not'' calculated solely from the totals of the ballots. The totals of the ballots will be a ''factor'' in the decision made by the admin who closes the discussion -- but other factors include how well those who support a particular fate for the article support their argument with reference to deletion policy, and how much reason we have to think that the opinion of someone who supports a particular fate for the article is an educated opinion based on a real understanding of Wikipedia's goals and its standards. I couldn't begin to count the deletion discussions, for example, where a horde of people showed up to assure us "X is good! X is great! X is wonderful!" which had absolutely ''no'' effect in their favor because it showed that they didn't understand the ''real'' crux of the issue was not "is X good?" but "is X already notable, or only expecting to ''become'' notable? is there enough reliable information from trustworthy sources to write about X or are we only getting a few opinions, all from parties with personal stakes in how X is presented?" That is why, if someone who we've never seen on Wikipedia before comes in and makes a good argument, not only valid but sound, about how the article on X fits Wikipedia's criteria and should be kept, it ''will'' have an effect on the outcome, whereas if someone who never showed interest in Wikipedia before this deletion discussion shows up and says nothing but "I think this article should be kept" it's not going to have much effect at all. -- [[User:Antaeus Feldspar|Antaeus Feldspar]] 19:54, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

::::* '''Comment''' - Glenys Livingstone again. Should I direct people to where they may find my response so they can comment? or is that just for Wiki editors ? and Question again, when I click on my signature at the end of these posts, it takes me to a place that says there is no user page by the name pagaian. I don't understand how people can easily find my talk page then - which does actually exist here [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Pagaian].[[User:Pagaian|Pagaian]] 23:22, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

:::::* To answer the first question, no, you should not and [http://pagaian.org/news/pagaian-cosmologywikipedia this] may be the reason for the warning above, although I'm willing to assume you did not know you were doing anything wrong and that it is a simple mistake. Whether an article should be kept or note is generally based on certain longstanding policies and guidelines, and especially the [[WP:N|notability]] guidelines. It does not really matter how much "clout" you have or how many people you can bring to a debate. It's the arguments that count. Editors can make multiple comments, but should only put forth one '''delete''' or '''keep'''. Also, if you have a [[WP:COI|conflict-of-interest]] in the subject matter (as you very definitely do here) it may annoy some editors if you are seen as actively campaigning for the article and cause them to view the article as [[WP:VSCA|vanispamicruftisement]]. (Now there's a neologism!) [[User:JChap2007|JChap2007]] 00:24, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

:::::::P.S. You can create a userpage by clicking on your username, entering text in the box and hitting save. [[User:JChap2007|JChap2007]] 00:24, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

*'''Delete''' I looked for references and everything I found was on the topic was tied directly to the author of the single book on the subject. [[User:Jeepday|Jeepday]] 05:38, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

*'''Retain''' I object to the deletion of the article on ‘PaGaian Cosmology’ because it meets Wiki’s three cardinal content policies. It has been written from a neutral point of view, representing its views fairly and without bias, it has been researched, reviewed and published by a substantial number of reliable secondary sources and does not contain any unpublished material. The word PaGaian is well defined within the article as a unique synthesis of two well known words ie ‘pagan’ and ‘Gaia’, which in my opinion rules out any need to define it as a ‘neologism’. The book is based on 30 years of research and development involving many participating groups and is an outcome of the author’s doctoral thesis. The book ''PaGaian Cosmology – Re-inventing Earth-based Goddess Religion'' published by iUniverse, Inc in 2005 ''''''together with numerous independent reviews''', is made freely available via a creative commons licence at [http://pagaian.org] an open source website that is increasingly attracting notice with a total of 11404 hits and 4261visits within the past five months. [[User:Malpagaia|Malpagaia]] 12:26, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

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**The above comment was moved here from the edit summary: [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia%3AArticles_for_deletion%2FPagaian_Cosmology&diff=104006276&oldid=103730574]. ~ [[User:Trialsanderrors|trialsanderrors]] 18:49, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

*'''Delete'''. No-notable nonsensical and un-referenced. [[User:NBeale|NBeale]] 22:53, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

*'''Retain''' . I would like to comment that those who vote for or against really should pay attention to the previous conversation. Most notably the two prior voters who voted against keeping the term. Their comments are uninformed, emotionally charged and should not be officially counted unless they can come up with proof of their accusations. As for my experieces, I was concerned when I noticed that this term was up for deletion (It is a term that I use to describe my spirituality) and decided to do my own independent research on line to see if Glenys Livingstone was a notable personality and if her work has actually been peer reviewed and referenced by other authors. I found significant evidence that Glenys and her PaGaian work is widely recognized in AustrailiaAustralia and that she is a notable personality in that country in the Neo-Pagan community. Her work has been reviewed by several peer journals (see comment above). I would like to be able to post specific areas that Glenys and/or her work on PaGaianism is noted on line. I'm not sure where to do this. Please advise. .[[User:rosewelsh|rosewelsh]] January 30, 2007 UPDATED: I've just verified that Glenys has been quoted in Matthew Fox's book The Coming of the Cosmic Christ on page 12. The quote was from her Master's thesis. She was also invited by Starhawk a notable pagan author from the US, to help her organize an event in the Sydney area. Furthermore, most of the information about Glenys can be found by Googling her exact name and spending about an hour researching the links provided. User:rosewelsh|rosewelsh]] 2:20pm MST 1/30/07

* '''Retain''' . First, about me. As you can see, I've been a member on wikipedia for a while (I don't remember how long - more than a few months, less than 2 years). I haven't posted much at all, but do read wikipedia and donate money to wikimedia. I check on the veracity of wiki articles partly because I'm a scientist myself. Pagaian Cosmology is a new, important, and notable term. It's not New Age - New Age relies heavily on pseudoscience and supernatural ideas like reincarnation, crystal power, astrology etc. Quite the opposite, Pagaian Cosmology explicity has a naturalistic worldview consistent with science. As a scientist myself, I've noticed a terrible dearth of spiritual approaches that are based on a verifiable, scientific worldview. I think approaches like this hold immense promise for the future, and as such are very notable. The New Age movements don't stay consistent with science, nor do the many rapidly growing Pagan movements. Calling Pagaian Cosmology "New Age" shows a lack of understanding of it's basic ideas. As far as my untrained eyes can tell, the article is neutral, well researched, traceable, and fits wiki criteria. Even if it didn't, it seems to me that the best response would be to fix any perceived problems instead of deleting it. While I don't use Pagaian Cosmology myself, it's clear to me that it is notable, important, timely, and enhances wikipedia as a resource on relevant terms in today's world. [[User:Equinox2|Equinox2]] 21:06, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

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[[User:212.139.227.74|212.139.227.74]] 22:41, 31 January 2007 (UTC)Blue Moon

:''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this page.'' <!--Template:Afd bottom--></div>