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Line 1: {{OnThisDay\|date1=2009-11-02\|oldid1=323288578\|date2=2010-11-02\|oldid2=394361921}} ~~{{Template:WikiProject Fraternities and Sororities\|class=Start\|importance=High}}~~ {{WikiProject banner shell\|class=C\| ~~{\| class="messagebox standard-talk"~~ {{WikiProject Fraternities and Sororities\|importance=High}} \|- {{WikiProject Higher Education}} \|This article is part of a [[Wikipedia:WikiProject\|WikiProject]] to improve Wikipedia's articles related to [[Fraternities and Sororities]]. For guidelines see [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Fraternities and Sororities\|WikiProject Fraternities and Sororities]] and [[Wikipedia:Contributing FAQ]].{{check talk}} \|} } {{Archive box\|[[/Archive 1\|1]]}} ~~==Box==~~ {{User:MiszaBot/config ~~I'm thinking of changing the box to this:~~ \|maxarchivesize = 250K Who are you? When would you change it? Why? Do you have a crucicrecent image? [[User:Vrkaul\|Vijay]] 23:09, 12 March 2006 (UTC) \|counter = 1 \|algo = old(180d) \|archive = Talk:Lambda Chi Alpha/Archive %(counter)d }} == user label == ~~{\| style="margin:0 0 1em 1em" border="1" cellpadding="2" cellspacing="0" align="right" width="260px"~~ ~~\|+<font size="+1">'''Lambda Chi Alpha Fraternity'''</font>~~ \|- ~~\| align="center" colspan=2 \|~~ ~~{\| border="0" cellpadding="2" cellspacing="0"~~ \|- ~~\| align="center" \|~~ ~~\| align="center" \|~~ \|- ~~\| align="center" \|~~ ~~\| align="center" \|~~ \|} \|- ~~\| align="center" colspan="2" \|Nicknames: Lambda Chis, Lamb Chops, Choppers~~ \|- ~~\| Founded~~ ~~\| [[November 2]], [[1909]]~~ \|- ~~\|Founder~~ ~~\|[[Warren A. Cole]]~~ \|- ~~\|Greek Letters~~ ~~\|'''ΛΧΑ'''~~ \|- ~~\| Headquarters~~ ~~\| [[Indianapolis, Indiana\|Indianapolis, IN]]~~ \|- ~~\|Official Colors~~ ~~\|<font color="#800080">'''Purple'''</font>, <font color="#008000">'''Green'''</font>, and <font color="#bbbb00">'''Gold'''</font>~~ \|- ~~\|Official Flower~~ ~~\|White [[Rose]]~~ \|- ~~\|Symbol: [[Cross]] and [[Crescent]]~~ ~~\|[[Image:Crucicrescent_color.png\|160px\|right\|The Cross and Crescent of Lambda Chi Alpha]]~~ \|- ~~\|Philanthropy~~ ~~\|[[North American Food Drive]]~~ \|- ~~\|The [[Coat of Arms]] of Lambda Chi Alpha~~ ~~\|[[Image:LXACoat.png\|160px\|right\|The Coat of Arms of Lambda Chi Alpha]]~~ \|- ~~\| align="center" colspan="2" \|[[Motto]]: '''Vir Quisque Vir''' (Latin) ''Every Man a Man''~~ \|- ~~\| align="center" colspan="2" \| [http://www.lambdachi.org Lambda Chi Alpha Website]~~ \|} I just created a user label template for LCA. User labels are for those who prefer not to use userboxes on their user pages. You can get {{WP:KIS/Lambda Chi Alpha}} by including {{tlu\|WP:KIS/Lambda Chi Alpha}} on your page. ~~==Notable member research==~~ Lambda Chi Alpha has 250,000 members; naturally, many of them are notable. We have created subcategories to include all men who have either received a notable award or reached a professional accomplishment. This is all part of the [[WP:KIS\|Keep it Simple]] project. ~~===Examples===~~ :This user label is being discussed along with the others at [[Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2013 February 6#Template:User_label]]. If you want to convert it, see {{tl\|user label}} or [[User:PC-XT/KIS]]. [[User:PC-XT\|PC-XT]] ([[User talk:PC-XT\|talk]]) 08:39, 13 February 2013 (UTC) CEOs of Fortune 500 or S&P 500 companies are notable ::The result of the discussion was '''move'''. I converted the label for you while I was moving it, and [[User:Plastikspork\|Plastikspork]] kindly edited the above to make it current. [[User:PC-XT\|PC-XT]] ([[User talk:PC-XT\|talk]]) 06:16, 17 February 2013 (UTC) * Politicians were become Governor, Congressman, Senator are notable * Actors who won or were nominated for an Emmy, Grammy, Oscar are notable * Athletes in a Hall of Fame, won a tournament (e.g. superbowl), or played for an All-Star team are notable The challenge is not all recognizable members win notable awards and are thus difficult to classify. I propose we put these guys in a Miscellaneous subcategory. --[[User:Jasonpearce\|Jasonpearce]] 19:35, 29 March 2006 (UTC) ~~===Style===~~ ~~Some consistancy should be made on how notable members are listed. Here are our proposed guidelines.~~ ~~====Member Names====~~ ~~'''Example:''' Robert Thomas Smith II (Butler 1941)~~ * Please use the full first, middle, last, and suffix * If the full name doesn't properly link to a member's more common-name entry in Wikipedia, create a redirect (#R) :I'd add that the link you make should also point directly to the common-name page: <nowiki>[[John Doe\|John Quincy Doe]]</nowiki>. But, please do add the redirect. — [[User:Gogobera\|gogobera]] ([[User_talk:Gogobera\|talk]]) 00:47, 27 January 2007 (UTC) ~~====School Names====~~ ~~'''Example:''' (Butler 1941)~~ Try to get the name as short as possible without abbreviation. * Typically, remove "University of," "College of," "Institute of." * But don't shorten to an acronym. e.g. NCSU should be written as (North Carolina State 1974) * The year represents the member's year of graduation, or his expected year of graduation if they didn't graduate. To calculate a class year, add 21 to the person's year of birth. * If the member was an honorary member, use HON instead of a year. e.g. Harry S. Truman (Missouri-Columbia HON) ~~===Categories===~~ ~~A list of categories that should be researched to see if they contain any members of Lambda Chi Alpha.~~ * Academy Award * American Music Award * American Theatre Hall of Fame http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Theatre_Hall_of_Fame * Americas Cup Hall of Fame http://www.herreshoff.org/frames/mmvthofframe.htm * Astronauts * Baseball Hall of Fame http://www.baseballhalloffame.org/hofers_and_honorees/lists/alph.htm * Basketball Hall of Fame http://www.hoophall.com/halloffamers/alpha.htm * Big Band and Jazz Hall of Fame http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Band_and_Jazz_Hall_of_Fame * Billboard Music Award * Billiard Congress of America Hall of Fame http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billiard_Congress_of_America_Hall_of_Fame * Canada's Walk of Fame http://www.canadaswalkoffame.com/inductees/inductees.xml.htm * Canadian Baseball Hall of Fame * Canadian Football Hall of Fame * Canadian Medical Hall of Fame http://www.cdnmedhall.org/laureates/ * Canadian Motorsport Hall of Fame * College Baseball Hall of Fame * College Football Hall of Fame * Country Music Hall of Fame http://www.countrymusichalloffame.com/site/inductees-list.aspx * Disney Legends http://legends.disney.go.com/legends/direct?searchType=predef_all * Down Beat Jazz Hall of Fame http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Down_Beat#Down_Beat_Jazz_Hall_of_Fame * Emmy Award * Fishing Hall of Fame * Forbes 400 Richest Americans * Fortune 500 CEO * General/Admiral * Golden Globe * Gospel Music Hall of Fame http://www.gmahalloffame.org//browse-year-select.cfm * Governor * Grammy Hall of Fame http://www.grammy.com/Recording_Academy/Awards/Hall_Of_Fame/ * Grammy Lifetime Achievement Award http://www.grammy.com/Recording_Academy/Awards/Lifetime_Awards/ * Hockey Hall of Fame * Hollywood Walk of Fame http://www.hollywoodchamber.net/icons/walk_directory.asp * International Bowling Museum and Hall of Fame * International Boxing Hall of Fame * International Gymnastics Hall of Fame * International Motorsports Hall of Fame * International Surfing Hall of Fame * International Swimming Hall of Fame * International Tennis Hall of Fame * Major League Baseball All-Star Game * Medal of Honor * Motorsports Hall of Fame of America * Mountain Bike Hall of Fame * MTV Movie Awards * NASCAR Hall of Fame (to be completed in 2009) * Nashville Songwriters Foundation http://www.nashvillesongwritersfoundation.com/hall.html * National Academy of Sciences * National Agriculture Hall of Fame http://aghalloffame.com/hall.asp * National Aviation Hall of Fame * National Baseball Hall of Fame * National Distance Running Hall of Fame * National Inventors Hall of Fame http://www.invent.org/hall_of_fame/searchindalpha.asp * National Medal of Science * National Museum of Racing and Hall of Fame * National Soccer Hall of Fame * National Softball Hall of Fame * National Sprint Car Hall of Fame * National Surfing/Wrestling "Ironman" Hall of Fame * National Track & Field Hall of Fame * National Wrestling Hall of Fame * NBA Finals * NCAA Men's Division I Basketball Championship * NFL Pro Bowl * NFL Super Bowl * Nobel Prize * Olympic Games * President of the United States * Presidential Medal of Freedom * Pro Football Hall of Fame * Professional Football Hall of Fame * Professional Rodeo Hall of Fame * Professional Wrestling Hall of Fame http://www.pwhf.org/halloffamers/inductees.asp * Pulitzer Prize * Radio Hall of Fame * Rock and Roll Hall of Fame http://www.rockhall.com/hof/allinductees.asp * S&P 500 CEO * Songwriters Hall of Fame http://www.songwritershalloffame.org/inductees_by_name.asp * State Supreme Court Justices * Supreme Court of the United States * United States Ambassador * United States Bicycling Hall of Fame * United States District Judge * United States Hockey Hall of Fame * United States House of Representatives * United States National Ski Hall of Fame * United States Olympic Hall of Fame * United States Senate * United States Soccer Athlete of the Year * Units of measurement * Vocal Group Hall of Fame http://www.vghf.org/Inductees/inductees.html * Volleyball Hall of Fame * WCW Hall of Fame * White House Chief of Staff * World Golf Hall of Fame * WWE Hall of Fame ~~==Notable Members==~~ ~~==Alumni==~~ * Just how many "world-renowned"s are we gonna put in the alumni list? [[User:Xyzzyva\|Xyzzyva]] 00:28, 8 October 2005 (UTC) * I think we should put as many as possible that are well known or have done something important. Once there get to be too many, then we can discuss thining the list out. Also, is John Gallagher an alumnus? I didn't find any information about him other than being a professor somewhere. I'll remove him for now, until we get some more info on him. --[[User:BeastRHIT\|BeastRHIT]] * I created some groupings for our VIP alumni (by profession and award) and posted the research I've done for headquarters. I moved the original list to the bottom of the Notable members section and labeled it Random List. I also removed the names that appeared in the groupings I added to avoid repeats. --[[User:Jasonpearce\|Jasonpearce]] 21:53, 27 March 2006 (UTC) Regarding baseball Hall of Famer Mickey Cochrane, what evidence is there that he was a Lambda Chi? I emailed the Alpha chapter at Boston University but have received no answer thus far. :I would say that the entire collection of wikipedia articles on collegiate fraternities is full of unverifiable facts. I don't want to start chiping away at everything we've put together here on the LCA page, but I ''do'' think its about time we start citing our sources. The realm of "notable members" is one huge realm where I don't know of a page that cites [[Wikipedia:Reliable sources\|reliable sources]] for its information. To be clear, I don't think much on these pages ''not true'', but I ''do'' think it's ''not [[WP:Verifiable\|verifiable]]''. Therefore, a lot of this info doesn't belong. It would be a waste to just delete it all, though. Let's start finding sources. Does anyone know if LCA has published a list of notable members? How about a list of all members? Any other ideas? --[[User:Vrkaul\|Vijay]] 23:57, 7 April 2006 (UTC) ::I added one good credible external link for prominent Lambda Chis, from the Notable Names Database, and I'm sure there are others. I also think it's beneficial to have them on the main page, unless it becomes way too massive, since the affiliations with the fraternity are in some ways as important as the fraternity history, etc., itself. In fact, one might say that the fraternity alumni is the single most important part of this article since all of these organizations serve pretty much the same purpose and are pretty identical in other ways. The people affiliated with them is what sets each fraterity a part, in many ways. [[User:LambdaChi\|LambdaChi]] 13:19, 9 May 2006 (UTC) Adding the Notable Names Database is good. I was thinking more along the lines of an in text footnote, but the only text to note on, right now, is the heading, and I didn't like putting the refrence up there. [[User:Jasonpearce\|Jasonpearce]] said that the member database will be on lambdachi.org this year, so I figure whenever that's available, it'll be the most authoritative reference we can use. — [[User:Vrkaul\|Vijay]] 04:05, 10 May 2006 (UTC) ~~===Steppenwolf ===~~ * Has anyone heard the story about Steppenwolf being former brothers, and if so, is there any validity as to why they are no longer brothers? [[User:BeauBlumberg\|Beau]] 16:57, 30 December 2005 (UTC)BeauBlumberg * Regarding Steppenwolf, none of the members of the band nor the men who wrote the lyrics are members of Lambda Chi Alpha. On that note, neither are the guys who invented bowling or Spider-Man. --[[User:Jasonpearce\|Jasonpearce]] 21:53, 27 March 2006 (UTC) :* OK, one thing needs to be cleared up. The lead singer for Steppenwolf, John Kay, is a Lambda Chi. Steppenwolf sings "Magic Carpet Ride." I am a Brother of Lambda Chi Alpha, and only a Brother could possibly know and understand the true meaning behind this song (and no, it is not about drugs). --[[User:Asulca593\|Asulca593]] 18:08, 5 April 2006 (UTC) ::Where was John Kay a initiated into Lambda Chi? Just because you, or others, think there's "hidden meaning" in a song doesn't mean that it's true. Conversely, much art is meaningful to people in ways the creator was not intending. [[user:jasonpearce\|Jason Pearce]] is a brother of LCA, and works for the IHQ. If anyone would look into the truth before posting, he would. The comments about [[bowling]] and [[Spider-Man]] presumably emphasise the ''lack'' of connection between [[Steppenwolf (band)\|Steppenwolf]] and Lambda Chi. If you have [[Wikipedia:Verifiable\|verifiable]] evidence to the contrary, please add it to the article! ::On the other hand, all the other NIC fraternities have copies of their ritual available to read in the Library of Congress. Harry Truman kept Lambda Chi's from being included in the collection! --[[User:Vrkaul\|Vijay]] 19:18, 5 April 2006 (UTC) (kidding about the Library of Congress thing, of course) :::Maybe I spoke (or typed) too soon without thinking, for which I apologize. I did not mean to discredit anyone. I have no solid evidence to support that he is (or is not) a Lambda Chi. So I definetly faulted in my previous statement. :::An explanation for making that statement is this: Obviously, I cannot go too deep into details in such a public forum. Personally, it is harder for me to believe that Kay was ''not'' a Lambda Chi, so I just assumed the opposite. As a Lambda Chi, Magic Carpet Ride does have meaning to me. I haven't met many other Lambda Chis from other chapters, so I can't say I know what other brothers think. Therefore, I assumed it was common knowledge and didn't really think to do any research. Live and learn, I guess... --[[User:Asulca593\|Asulca593]] 04:33, 7 April 2006 (UTC) ::::I also have no evidence one way or the other. It's something I've heard a lot, and I think most Lambda Chi's believe it's true. I believed there was a connection, too, until I heard otherwise. I spoke harshly and as if I hadn't made the same mistake myself. Sorry! I guess the next step is to try and tell others. —[[User:Vrkaul\|Vijay]] 18:04, 7 April 2006 (UTC) ~~::::Those in my chapter were well aware of the, ahem, Magic Carpet Ride thing. But most of us thought it was just a cool, er, coincidence. [[User:Baccyak4H\|Baccyak4H]] 02:28, 20 September 2006 (UTC)~~ :Brother [[User:Asulca593\|Asulca593]], the John Kay from Stepenwolf you are referring to was born [http://www.steppenwolf.com/s/w/bio.html Joachim Fritz Krauledat] in 1944 in the section of Germany then known as East Prussia. In our database of 250,000 members, we have no one whose last name is "Krauledat." We do have four guys whose first name is "Joachim": ~~:: RIESTHUIS, JOACHIM Nebraska - Kearney 1995 5/22/1971 (not born in 1944)~~ ~~::* CZERWONKY, JOACHIM Northwestern 1935 12/31/1910 (not born in 1944)~~ ~~::* KRISTOF, JOACHIM Cincinnati 1/1/1900 (not born in 1944)~~ ~~::* KASSIL, JOACHIM Miami (OH) 1975 12/31/1952 (not born in 1944)~~ ~~:* And in our database of 250,000 members, we do have only two men named "John Kay":~~ ~~::* KAY, JOHN Elliot Union 2007 3/28/1985 (not born in 1944)~~ ~~::* KAY, JOHN Pete Memphis 12/31/1950 (not born in 1944)~~ ~~:* As for the [http://www.steppenwolf.com/s/w/bandcrew.html other members] of the band, here are our closest matches (e.g. I can't find a match):~~ ~~::* ADAMS, DOUGLAS William Jewell 1952 age 76~~ ~~::* ADAMS, DOUGLAS Neil Texas State - San Marcos 1986 age 42~~ ~~::* ADAMS, DOUGLAS Richard Baldwin-Wallace 1998 age 29~~ ~~::* HURST, RAYMOND Hal Nevada - Reno age 39~~ ~~::* HURST, ROBERT New Hampshire age 69~~ ~~::* JOHNSON, DAN Eugene Montana State - Bozeman 2009~~ ~~::* JOHNSON, DANIEL Simpson 1982 age 46~~ ~~::* JOHNSON, DANIEL Biff Oklahoma age 65~~ ~~::* JOHNSON, DANIEL Burke California State - Sacramento 1988 age 39~~ ~~::* JOHNSON, DANIEL Cole Marshall 2005 age 23~~ ~~::* JOHNSON, DANIEL E. California State - Northridge 2009~~ ~~::* JOHNSON, DANIEL Glenn North Texas 2004 age 24~~ ~~::* JOHNSON, DANIEL Gregory Michigan age 32~~ ~~::* JOHNSON, DANIEL Hiram Maryland - College Park age 66~~ ~~::* JOHNSON, DANIEL John Virginia Tech 1985 age 41~~ ~~::* JOHNSON, DANIEL Lee Cincinnati age 106~~ ~~::* JOHNSON, DANIEL Lee San Diego State 1970 age 57~~ ~~::* JOHNSON, DANIEL Lewis Marshall 1987 age 41~~ ~~::* JOHNSON, DANIEL Lewis Simpson 1983 age 45~~ ~~::* JOHNSON, DANIEL P. Depauw 1977 age 51~~ ~~::* JOHNSON, DANIEL Patrick North Florida 1993 age 36~~ ~~::* SUMNER, JEFFERY Earl Akron age 37~~ ~~::* SUMNER, JEFFREY Depauw age 50~~ ~~::* SUMNER, JERRY Lynn Ferris State 1991 age 37~~ ~~::* WILK, MICHAEL Brian Kutztown 2001 age 28~~ ~~::* WOLF, CHARLES Culver-Stockton 1956 age 76~~ ~~::* WOLF, CHARLES Penn State age 72~~ ~~::* WOLF, CHARLES Valparaiso 1971 age 58~~ ~~::* WOLF, CHARLES Coulson Maryland - College Park age 87~~ :* Thus, I conclude that John Kay from Stepenwolf is not an initiated member of Lambda Chi Alpha nor is any other member of the Steppenwolf band. If your research proves otherwise, I'm more than happy to review your findings. --[[User:Jasonpearce\|Jasonpearce]] 14:32, 10 April 2006 (UTC) :* Hi folks. New poster here, so I hope this is the correct place to put this. A man named Rushton Moreve is also credited for writing the song. Can you do some research on him in the database? --[[User:Jhjackson\|Jhjackson]] 13:01, 15 April 2006 (UTC) :* Dear [[User:Jhjackson\|Jhjackson]], Rushton Moreve wrote the bass line and the original lyrics. But the original lyrics aren't used in the song, for John Kay rewrote them from scratch. The original lyrics were "I like my job, I like by baby." That was it. According to John Kay's autobiography, he says "I took the tape home and put it on my new sound system. One of the first things I had done with some of my royalties was to go down to The Sound Center and purchase my first real hi-fi system, brand new. 'I like to dream right between my sound machine' -- the sound machine being the hi-fi system. Twenty minuted later the whole thing was finished." But to answer your question, we have no one with the last name "Moreve" in our database. --[[User:Jasonpearce\|jasonpearce]] 18:12, 20 April 2006 (UTC) * I wrote an article in the July 2006 ''Cross & Crescent'' magazine called "[http://www.crossandcrescent.com/2006/07/carpet-ride-unraveled/ Carpet Ride Unraveled]." This article will hopefully put this rumor to bed. In ZAX, --[[User:Jasonpearce\|jasonpearce]] 18:18, 22 December 2006 (UTC) ~~== Chapter list links ==~~ * The list of all chapters is really long. Perhaps it could be linked to at some external ___location? I didn't find any comprehensive list at IHQ's site, but maybe I'm missing something. The fewer lists of "all chapters" exist online, the easier it will be to keep them maintained correctly--it really ought to be done on the official LCA site. On the other hand, I think it would be good to post the unique way in which LCA Zetas are named. I could get it out of Ritual: What and why. (just 2c) -[[User:Vrkaul\|Vijay]] 06:31, 28 February 2006 (UTC) I added a section on the naming of chapters. [[User:Vrkaul\|Vijay]] 22:52, 12 March 2006 (UTC) Also, I cited Ritual: What and Why, but I'm not sure how best to do so. Is there a better way to do this? [[User:Vrkaul\|Vijay]] 23:32, 12 March 2006 (UTC) Furthermore, if the entire chapter list is to remain in the article, where should the links point? It seems to me that the school's name should link to the school, while the chapter (the zeta designation) should point to the chapter's site. Is pointing to the school's website even relevent for an article about Lambda Chi. Any thoughts? [[User:Vrkaul\|Vijay]] 20:40, 12 March 2006 (UTC) ** What about having schools point to their wiki page, if it exists? [[User:Vrkaul\|Vijay]] 22:52, 12 March 2006 (UTC) ~~== First Paragraph ==~~ I removed the quotes around “founded.” Quoting a verb in the lead paragraph of an encyclopedic article has to be bad form. I don't think there are any sources that would dispute that Cole founded LCA. Granted, a lot of work was done by others, including Mason, of course; however, they should be given their own sections, and Cole's contribution should not be limited. Is there any reason I don't understand about why Cole "founded" LCA? [[User:Vrkaul\|Vijay]] 23:14, 12 March 2006 (UTC) ~~== Baird's vs Paedagogus ==~~ I just got ahold of a copy of ''Baird's Manual of American College Fraternities'', I found that its information disagrees with mine slightly regarding figures figuring into the TKN merger. From Baird's: LCA had 78 active chapters, TKN had 37 before the merger. After the merger, the united LCA had 106 chapters. (Note, that the online source at [http://www.lambdachi.org/fraternity/history/tu.asp lambdachi.org] repeates my 105 chapter number. So... now what? Does someone have to count? : / ) Also of note, ''Baird's'' says, "Lambda Chi Alpha, a fraternity based on democratic and progressive principles, was founded at Boston University November 2, 1909, by three students who had been affiliated with the local Cosmopolitan Law Club, established 1905." It then goes on to talk about the early chapters and early history. It then mentions specifically, "...Dr. John E. Mason, who almost single-handed rewrote the ritual and redesigned the coat of arms, badge and other emblems. Samuel Dyer of Maine, Louis F. Robins of Brown and Albert Cross of Pennsylvania are also honored as early workers whose contributions were especially distinguished. It is in recognition of the services of these men that the fraternity celebrates as Founders' Day march 22 of each year, the day in 1913 when the revised ritual and emblems were officially adopted." Note that it doesn't mention Warren Cole, whatsoever. I would imagine that is an artifact of it being the 1949 edition of ''Baird's''. I seem to remember Cole got kicked out for a while and that he was reinstated later (posthumasely?). That info should probably be in the LCA article. Does anyone know the full story? Have sources? Lastly, ''Baird's'' mentions a few more good dates, but no information that isn't available elsewhere. It makes me wonder if all the NIC fraternities (is there a greek leter society Wikiproject for this sort've thing?) should have two pages such as: ''Name_of_Org.'' and ''History_of_Name_of_Org.''. [[User:Vrkaul\|Vijay]] 03:01, 29 March 2006 (UTC) ~~== Warren Cole ==~~ From [http://www.osuchoppers.com/Content/history.htm the Γ–Τ Zeta] at Ohio State U.'s website, Cole resigned after allegations of "accusations of financial irregularities and alteration of official documents from some members of the Grand High Zeta." I assume this info is in the Paedegogus (but I don't have one with me). He was reinstated in '57 as a member in good standing. (No reason why is given.) ~~Oh, actually, their info came from [http://www.elmhurst.edu/~lca/about/history.htm Elmhurst College's] website. The material is the same.~~ ~~Anyway, if someone has some more light to shed on the issue, I hope they'll add to the article. [[User:Vrkaul\|Vijay]] 03:28, 29 March 2006 (UTC)~~ ~~==Notable alumni==~~ I have put the notable alumni in more manageable categories. Some had previously been listed in multiple categories. Also, if there is no article on them, I would not recommend listing them. I think the list is now in very good condition. [[User:LambdaChi\|LambdaChi]] 17:21, 5 May 2006 (UTC) :I disagree that each and every notable member needs to be posted here in this article. I think that a couple of highlights are sufficient, and that the list can be moved to another page. I should've posted here, first, before I made the change--I was planning on posting about the changes I made as soon as I was done. I would also like to move the list of chapters to a seperate article. It is disturbingly long, and the article suffers for it. As to the point that "every other fraternity" lists their notable memebers, I would point out that most fraternity articles are not well written. Notable members are really a very small part of what any fraternity is about, although they make good "bragging rights." The article needs a "History" section and a "North American Food Drive" badly. Right now the article is a couple of paragraphs separated by two long lists. I think that needs to be changed. Further, separating the articles will allow for a better managment of content, as the lists are the part that are most frequently updated. —[[User:Vrkaul\|Vijay]] 23:46, 8 May 2006 (UTC) ~~== Moving the lists out of the article ==~~ Right now I'm working on [[List of notable members of Lambda Chi Alpha]] and [[List of chapters of Lambda Chi Alpha]]. I think that separating this content from the main article would vastly improve the quality of the article. Removing these long lists will immediately improve the flow of the content of the page. Remember, this should read like an encyclopedia--we should have mainly paragraphs of text, not simply headings, subheadings, and lists. Also, since the chapter list is updated whenever a colony is chartered or a chapter deactivates, or when someone adds a new link to a chapter website, and the notable members list gets a large amount of interest, it will aid in managing the article to have these lists separated as their own articles. Most importantly, removing the lists from the sections, and using the <nowiki>{{main\|article name}}</nowiki> template will encourage editors to contribute new information about Lambda Chi, itself, rather than focusing on individual members and chapters. ~~Thoughts? —[[User:Vrkaul\|Vijay]] 23:51, 8 May 2006 (UTC)~~ ~~To further support my point, I'll quote from [[Wikipedia:Lists_(embedded_lists)#Lists_within_articles]]:~~ :“As a basic principle, you should avoid list-making in entries. Wikipedia is not a list repository. Lists of links, if warranted, should have their own entry: see [[Wikipedia:Lists (stand-alone lists)]] for detail. ''Instead of giving a list of items, the significant items should be mentioned naturally within the text.''” [emphasis mine] If there's a truly good reason to leave the 2.5 page long ~90 item notable members list or the 6 page long list of our ~300 chapters in the 3 pages of actual article that we have (including notes and references), especially when we can include a useful summary of the information ''and'' leave the full list one click away, I can't figure it out. — [[User:Vrkaul\|Vijay]] 04:38, 9 May 2006 (UTC) :''Copied from "Alumni"'': I added one good credible external link for prominent Lambda Chis, from the Notable Names Database, and I'm sure there are others. I also think it's beneficial to have them on the main page, unless it becomes way too massive, since the affiliations with the fraternity are in some ways as important as the fraternity history, etc., itself. In fact, one might say that the fraternity alumni is the single most important part of this article since all of these organizations serve pretty much the same purpose and are pretty identical in other ways. The people affiliated with them is what sets each fraterity a part, in many ways. [[User:LambdaChi\|LambdaChi]] 13:19, 9 May 2006 (UTC) I'm not sure how well our alumni really do set us apart. Every college Fraternity has its share of Congress people and CEOs. Most of the "notable alumni" that are recognizable to the average person are in the Arts and Entertainment or Athletes sections, due to pop culture visibility. With all respect to Matt Rose, I doubt many people have heard of Burlington Northern Santa Fe Corporation, or him (unless you're into railroads). The article on Lambda Chi should list the alumni, in paragraph form, that, as you say, set it apart. I would mention Harry Truman and BF Skinner, both big names. I would suggest Blackmun as the Supreme Court is a big big deal. Maybe Ackerman, Owens, and Reed, as Bell South, Caterpillar, and CitiGroup are huge corps. And a couple more would do it, perhaps some of the athletes who're currently in national sports leagues. That [[Lincoln Almond]] was Governor of Rhode Island and a Lambda Chi doesn't need to be on the main page. Perhaps that six state governors have been Lambda Chis could be said, but even thats pushing the boundaries of what I think needs to be included in an article about Lambda Chi. Especially when the article would link to the complete list! I'm not suggesting that we delete the information, just prevent it from disrupting the flow of the article. Further, you say, "unless it becomes too massive." It's already about as long as the entire rest of the text of the article, excluding the list of chapters. How massive is too massive? — [[User:Vrkaul\|Vijay]] 02:30, 10 May 2006 (UTC) :My view on this is not too strongly held. But if you look at the other fraternity pages (and I skimmed through half a dozen or so), you'd find they all list prominent alumni on the main page. This section of the page, to my mind, is probably the most interesting and arguably the most important on the main page. I couldn't find any other fraternity page that didn't list prominent alumni the same way (on the main page), so I think it's ok for now. How big is too big? I think it's pushing the limit, and, if it grew much larger, I'd leave the current list and move those of less notoriety to the notable alumni page (and I'll add a link to the page you created where further alumni of marginal notability can be added). Hope this sounds reasonable. [[User:LambdaChi\|LambdaChi]] 07:44, 10 May 2006 (UTC) Poking around the other fraternity pages, most do have alumni lists (although not all have them in "list" format). However, most (all?) are shorter than ours. Many are significantly shorter. Also, poking around the Talk pages, it seems many folks have had similar discussions about lists and links: [[Talk:Theta Chi]], [[Talk:Sigma Pi]], etc. I'd still like to pare it down a bit. It would be awesome if the whole article read like one. Now that we're linking to the complete list, would you mind if I took out some of the less recognizable alumni? Also, how would you feel about getting the chapter list off of the main page? There would still be the section (currently 7.2) "Chapter Locations," which would contain a link to the full list. — [[User:Vrkaul\|vijay]] 10:17, 10 May 2006 (UTC) :Sounds reasonable. Maybe that NNDB list can serve as something of a threshold for inclusion on the main page. The list of chapter locations looks longer (and more tedious) than the alumni list, in my view. Anyway, look forward to seeing what you might do with it. Thx. [[User:LambdaChi\|LambdaChi]] 18:13, 10 May 2006 (UTC) The Notable Names Database (NNDB) is not a credible source. On three occasions, they have listed one or more men who are not members of Lambda Chi Alpha and they take months to make corrections. --[[User:Jasonpearce\|jasonpearce]] 21:01, 10 May 2006 (UTC) :Ok, perhaps someone could call the national headquarters and verify the list with them? It looks accurate to me, though, based on stuff I've seen from them through the years. [[User:LambdaChi\|LambdaChi]] 21:36, 10 May 2006 (UTC) ~~[[User:Jasonpearce\|Jason]] works at IHQ, and did a lot of work cleaning up the alumni list a few weeks ago. So it should be good, I think. — [[User:Vrkaul\|vijay]] 13:02, 11 May 2006 (UTC)~~ :Since Wikipedia may not be the best place for a long list of names, I moved Headquarters' development of the list to [http://www.fraternitymanuals.com/index.php?title=Lambda_Chi_Alpha/Notable_Members FraternityManuals.com], I site I built and maintain. In ZAX, --[[User:Jasonpearce\|jasonpearce]] 18:15, 22 December 2006 (UTC) ~~== Distinguishing Characteristics ==~~ ~~So, what ''are'' the characteristics that distinguish Lambda Chi from the other 63 NIC members? In no particular order:~~ North American Food Drive Open rituals Young for its size Associate Member Program Chapter Naming scheme (for better or worse! ;-) ) Size, overall, both in terms of chapters and initiates *Hazing policy these are just a few, if others would like to contribute to this list, that would be good. I'm gonna try to make sure there's a section in the article for all of these things. — [[User:Vrkaul\|Vijay]] 04:41, 10 May 2006 (UTC) ~~==Chapter web sites==~~ I think just about every Lambda Chi Alpha chapter has its own web site, or most do. Would be a good idea to add those that can be found (I see some are already listed, which is good). Would be good to get the rest up, in the existing chapter section format. [[User:LambdaChi\|LambdaChi]] 07:58, 10 May 2006 (UTC) :Don't see why not! It would also be good to periodically make sure all the listed ones are still up and in the same place. I wonder if there's a way to automate that?  — [[User:Gogobera\|gogobera]] ([[User_talk:Gogobera\|talk]]) 21:47, 21 January 2007 (UTC) ~~==Suspensions==~~ ~~Should suspended chapters be listed? and the dates of suspension?~~ ~~For example, the [[Rutgers University\|Rutgers]] chapter (Phi Chapter) was suspended for a certain number of years due to the alcohol poisoning death of a pledge in 1988.~~ ~~[[User:72.82.192.157\|72.82.192.157]] 19:51, 29 June 2006 (UTC)~~ ~~:I think suspended/closed chapters should be listed. They are part of our history and in some cases could return. [[User:Jrssr5\|Jrssr5]] 19:56, 21 September 2006 (UTC)~~ :I second that, and think that the reason for suspension should also be listed, if it can be cited.  — [[User:Gogobera\|gogobera]] ([[User_talk:Gogobera\|talk]]) 21:46, 21 January 2007 (UTC) ~~==Updated NEW Coat of Arms==~~ Noticed that the coat of arms was recently deleted from Wikipedia, probably due to improper fair use abuse. I have uploaded a version I created some years ago for the Phi Tau undergrad chapter website I once maintained. Hope this helps. The page looked drepressing without it! {{User\|Wrightchr}} 17:41, 10 January 2007 (UTC) ~~== Third most men ever ==~~ Taking a peak over at the [[North-American Interfraternity Conference\|NIC]] page, it seems that even 250K would put LCA in at #4 these days, behind SAE, Sig Chi, and Sig Phi Ep. Thoughts?  — [[User:Gogobera\|gogobera]] ([[User_talk:Gogobera\|talk]]) ~~== Cruscicresent v Cross and Crescent ==~~ Is there any official guideline on this usage? It was recently "Crucicrescent" in the infobox, but was edited to the more "user friendly" version by an anon editor. I see two sides to the issue: the current phrase is much more clear, in terms of being words everyone understands; the other (crucicrescent) is a more obscure word, but describes the simbol unambiguously. Then again, is "Crucicrescent" a real word? ... hmmmm. It's used it ''Ritual: What and Why'', but a google search only returns LCA related hits, and the OED (my Mac OS dictionary) doesn't have it. Neither does <http://www.m-w.com>. I guess if it's not in the OED or Merriam Webster, that's reason enough for it not to be in the infobox. I think it could still be used in the article if provided with some explanation.  — [[User:Gogobera\|gogobera]] ([[User_talk:Gogobera\|talk]]) 03:15, 22 January 2007 (UTC) ~~== Vandalism ==~~ I noticed a huge increase lately in vandalism taking place in this article. It's coming from multiple users and often sexual in nature. You can easily tell that vandalism in this article has reached a new level, when vandals revert each others edtis. I officially applied for [[Wikipedia:Requests for page protection\|page protection]]...I hope it solves our long-term issue. [[User:Wrightchr\|Wrightchr]] 23:49, 23 February 2007 (UTC)