Talk:Algorithm: Difference between revisions

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==Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment==

[[File:Sciences humaines.svg|40px]] This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available [[Wikipedia:Wiki_Ed/University_of_Maryland/INST201-HY11_Heroes_and_Villains_in_the_Age_of_Information_(Summer)|on the course page]]. Student editor(s): [[User:Jaypp86|Jaypp86]].

{{small|Above undated message substituted from [[Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment]] by [[User:PrimeBOT|PrimeBOT]] ([[User talk:PrimeBOT|talk]]) 13:49, 16 January 2022 (UTC)}}

== Where to cover "algorithms" as used in discussions about social media, big tech, etc? ==

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This page is quite long and rambling and seems to have some content that could go to other pages such as the section on Euclid's algorithm and the conversation between Turing etc. This is a gateway concept to many related issues and it would be good if it was easier for the general reader to navigate. I can get started on some of this. [[User:AmandaSLawrence|Amanda Lawrence]] 01:16, 27 October 2021 (UTC)

:I whole-heartedly agree that this article strays off topic in many places. In particular, there is a paragraph in the "Expressing algorithms" section that talks about Turing machines. I have no problem with that idea, but it seems to come out of nowhere to me as currently written. I would either delete it or add a transitional phrase to the beginning of the first sentence. But I'm not going to do that right now, since there is no need to fine-tune this section if it is likely to be significantly modified in line with some of the other discussion on this Talk page.

== Article reorganization? ==

:::: [[User:MrDemeanourMike-c-in-mv|MrDemeanourMike-c-in-mv]] ([[User talk:MrDemeanourMike-c-in-mv|talk]]) 1523:0844, 718 MarchJune 20222023 (UTC)

::@[[User:AmandaSLawrence|AmandaSLawrence]] [[Special:Contributions/117.20.112.19|117.20.112.19]] ([[User talk:117.20.112.19|talk]]) 00:25, 6 January 2024 (UTC)

Looking through the article and thinking about ways to improve it to get back to featured/GA status.

:::The whole section on Euclid's algorithm apart from the first para could be cut which would really help the flow - the examples could be quite short if they have their own page. But I'm not sure if all that long text should be added to the Euclid page or just cut. [[User:AmandaSLawrence|Amanda Lawrence]] 11:12, 25 January 2024 (UTC)

Many of the specific passages that were mentioned in the previous GA review seem to have been addressed, but the biggest thing that currently stands out to me is that the article needs major reorganization: the current list of 18 sections is just difficult to navigate, some of them very long and others extremely short. I think the strongest sections of the article are the history sections, as well as the Examples section.

Here's a suggested structure:

1. Definition

(includes current informal definition & formalization -- though I think much of this material should be moved to the history section)

2. Examples

3. History

4. Design and Implementation

(includes current secs. expressing algorithms, Design, Implementation, Computer Algorithms)

5. Analysis (needs better name) -- basically what is done with algorithms after they are designed/implemented

(includes current Algorithmic Analysis, Legal issues)

Note: it does make sense to include legal issues as part of the discussion, particularly because this can be combined with fairness & privacy concerns surrounding algorithms and ideally a discussion of that, which is definitely one area of algorithmic analysis.

6. Classification

(includes current section + Continuous algorithms)

A couple of these changes are obvious fixes, particularly merging in some of the super short sections.

Thoughts on the broader organizational structure here? [[User:Caleb Stanford|Caleb Stanford]] ([[User talk:Caleb Stanford|talk]]) 22:41, 16 November 2021 (UTC)

== Computer algorithms ==

I've removed the opening paragraph of this section; it was incomprehensible, and uncited. I think it was trying to explain what distinguishes algorithms implemented on computers from other algorithms.

The remaining part of the section seems to consist of a list of questions, accompanied by "answers" from various CS luminaries, concerning subjects like efficiency and elegance. This material needs distilling, to produce a section that actually has something to say.

The thing is, I don't think the section (as currently titled) will ever have anything to say, because "computer algorithms" are simply algorithms; and indeed, the section quotes Knuth, pointing out that ""the best way to learn an algorithm is to try it . . . immediately take pen and paper and work through an example". With that quote, the section undermines itself; if you can work through a computer algorithm without a computer, then it's just an algorithm.

I propose to blank the section; I would try to improve it, but I don't get what the section is trying to say. I'll leave it for a day or so, in the hope that someone can distill meaning out of it.

[[User:MrDemeanour|MrDemeanour]] ([[User talk:MrDemeanour|talk]]) 12:17, 11 February 2022 (UTC)

: Thanks! I 100% agree that this section is confusing. I'm not sure of the exact intention of the original author. I think a section regarding "implementation of algorithms" would be useful, but if that is the intended scope, then the discussion seems to contain a lot of irrelevant detail.

: I'd like to avoid completely removing it as I think editors are often too quick to delete others' work rather than edit/incorporate. It seems like much of the discussion is actually about ''representing'' algorithms in computers, rather than implementing them. Hence the different Turing-complete models of computation. So I would suggest that that part of the discussion be moved to "Expressing algorithms". The rest could find a place somewhere else or be deleted. Does that change make sense?

: [[User:Caleb Stanford|Caleb Stanford]] ([[User talk:Caleb Stanford|talk]]) 16:45, 11 February 2022 (UTC)

:::: Well, I'm not going to try to copy-edit this material and then try to distribute certain (which?) parts through the rest of the article, since I've already said that I think it's incomprehensible; I'm obviously not competent to do that work.

:::: And since there is no clear support here for deletion, then despite the fact that I think deletion would improve the article, I'm not going to delete.

:::: [[User:MrDemeanour|MrDemeanour]] ([[User talk:MrDemeanour|talk]]) 15:08, 7 March 2022 (UTC)

== Why is Algorithm written with an "i" instead of a "y"? ==

Im asking for a friend, but wouldnt it make more sense to be "Algorythm" from "rythm"? [[Special:Contributions/141.91.210.34|141.91.210.34]] ([[User talk:141.91.210.34|talk]]) 09:57, 29 November 2022 (UTC)

== Merge "[[Algorithmics]]" into this page ==

:Because the term 'algorithm' and the term 'rhythm' are not derived from the same source. The history section of the article explains the etymology: "''The word algorithm is derived from the name of the 9th-century Persian mathematician Muhammad ibn Musa al-Khwarizmi...''" [[User:Mindmatrix|<span style="color: #8b4513;">Mind</span>]][[User_talk:Mindmatrix|<span style="color: #ee8811;">matrix</span>]] 12:28, 29 November 2022 (UTC)

Anyone against merging [[Algorithmics]] into [[Algorithm]]? That page seems almost completely useless. [[User:Weebney|Weebney]] ([[User talk:Weebney|talk]]) 19:55, 23 January 2024 (UTC)

== March 24, 2023 ==

:In favour - go for it. I don't think we need the illustration - not for the term anyway. [[User:AmandaSLawrence|Amanda Lawrence]] 10:57, 25 January 2024 (UTC)

As added by [[User:2601:196:180:dc0:7c5a:37cb:a8c6:32d7]]:

:It is finished. [[User:MrDemeanourWeebney|MrDemeanourWeebney]] ([[User talk:MrDemeanourWeebney|talk]]) 1206:1702, 117 February 20222024 (UTC)

== Contrast with heuristics ==

<code><nowiki>:"One box is to be singled out and called the starting point. ...<!-- Is this punctuation (a period, followed by a space, then an elipse) correct? A recent editor assumed it was supposed to be this .... and changed it thusly. Can someone with access to the original source please verify it, and amend this inline note "stet" to indicate it should remain as verified.--> a specific problem is to be given in symbolic form by a finite number of boxes [i.e., INPUT] being marked with a stroke. Likewise, the answer [i.e., OUTPUT] is to be given in symbolic form by such a configuration of marked boxes...</nowiki></code> <p style="font-family: 'Comic Sans MS'">[[User:SomeoneIguess|Someone, i guess]]^{([[User talk:SomeoneIguess|talk i guess]]&#124;[[Special:Contributions/SomeoneIguess|le edit list]])}</p> 02:21, 25 March 2023 (UTC)

While I understand the thought behind contrasting algorithms with heuristics, I think it makes the page longer than it needs to be. It doesn't add new information about algorithms nor does it clear up common misconceptions. It seems like more of a detour in what should be a concise article. Any thoughts on keeping or removing the heuristics paragraph? [[User:Clubspike2|Clubspike2]] ([[User talk:Clubspike2|talk]]) 11:56, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

:I think it's the end of the sentence, with text from the quote cut out. As in "Endofquotesentence. ...because reasons." with part of the quote removed. --<span style="background-color: indigo;">[[User:Roundish|<span style="color: white">Roundish</span>]]<span style="color: yellow"> ⋆</span>[[User talk:Roundish|<span style="color: lime">t</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Roundish|c]])</span> 02:35, 25 March 2023 (UTC)

== Definition of heuristic ==

::Exactly. I pulled the source. {{tq|One box is to be singled out and called the starting point. We now further assume that a specific problem is to be given in symbolic form by a finite number of boxes being marked with a stroke.}} As I read [[MOS:ELLIPSES]], we leave the period in the quotation mark, then do nonbreaking space, ellipsis, space, and pick back up with the text. The alternative would be to gloss the text, which would be something like (condensing) "...and called the starting point. [A] finite number of boxes [are] marked with a stroke." —'''[[User:C.Fred|C.Fred]]''' ([[User_talk:C.Fred|talk]]) 02:45, 25 March 2023 (UTC)

The statement that "a heuristic is an approach to solving problems that do not have well-defined correct or optimal results" is simply wrong. A heuristic is an approximate and often unproved method, independent of whether there exist well-defined correct of optimal results. See [[Heuristic]] in WP: "a technique designed for problem solving more quickly when classic methods are too slow for finding an exact or approximate solution, or when classic methods fail to find any exact solution". [[User:Zaslav|Zaslav]] ([[User talk:Zaslav|talk]]) 00:16, 19 December 2024 (UTC)

:'''Unrelated''' but I don't enjoy the fact this one HTML comment started an edit war.