Proposals for closing projects/Closure of Chechen Wikipedia (2): Difference between revisions

Revision as of 22:13, 21 September 2008

Latest revision as of 15:58, 27 April 2013

(34 intermediate revisions by 21 users not shown)

Line 1:

{{closed|The result is Keep.|text=

==Proposal to close [[ce:Main Page|Chechen Wikipedia]]==

Despite the overwhelming keep in the [[Proposals for closing projects/Closure of Chechen Wikipedia|last vote]], the project has grown only to 370 articles. Looking at the [[ce:Башхо:RecentChanges|recent changes]] pages one can see mainly bot edits, interspersed with human ones - 5 a week maybe? The wiki visibly lacks upkeep, lots of red links on the main page, a Meta link (with the old logo) that points to... Russian Wikipedia - all says that Chechen Wikipedia is getting dusty and rusty. Lack of interest since the last vote mentioned above makes me file a request to close the project. [[User:Wpedzich|Wojciech Pędzich]] ''[[User talk:Wpedzich|Talk]]'' 11:08, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

Line 7 ⟶ 8:

* In the recent changes there seems to be only one active user - [[User:Girdi]] (for 1 week). In all dicussions on opening one Wikipedia the ''conditio sine qua non'' is finding several users ready to maintain it. One is not several.

* After scrutinising some other users' activity it turns out that 2 or three from the other contributors (including [[User:Malafaya]]) have no knowledge of the Chechen language(ce-0).

* The layout is Russian, ''id est'', the knowledge of two languages is indispensable in order to contribute. ''Confer'' to the Gothic Wikipedia, where the entire layout beside "create" has been rendered in the appropriate language. The sheer fact of one previous discussion infers the prolonged availability of the Chechen version, which makes the foreign languages present in their layout even more flabbergasting. <br>

(Besides this question) [[User:Girdi]] on his user page in Chechen seems to confess not to have any knowledge of the English (en-0) language, which is highly discrepant witht the sheer existance of his edits below and dubitable, to say the least. [[User:Bogorm|Bogorm]] 20:08, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

: These reasons are invalid. But this proposal will never succeed. You wasted your time. --[[User:Girdi|Girdi]] 02:33, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

:: But [//meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Proposals_for_closing_projects%2FClosure_of_Chechen_Wikipedia&diff=478848&oldid=477633 this comment] from the impartial Spanish-speaking user, who had just made himself familiar with the matters of fact there is convincing not only because of its veracity, but because what he foretold (''Hasta ahora nadie ha sido capaz de escribir un artículo normal, '''sería un milagro que la situación mejore''''') has ''en effet'' been confirmed by my present observations, wherewith it coheres entirely. [[User:Bogorm|Bogorm]] 08:29, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

::: Target for vandalism - yes, Chechen wikipedia will always be a target of Russian and Anti-Islamicist vandalism as long as Chechens continue the great struggle for freedom and independence, this is not Wiki-issue, but Wiki-users bringing current events in the world into Wikipedia.

::: Provides no useful information - no, Chechen wikipedia has extremely detailed correct history of the Chechen Republic, very nice articles about Chechen grammar which the English wikipedia doesn't even have, nor is there information on the english wikipedia.

::: A decent article hasn't been written - no, there are over 300 decent articles, all human made, no bot made, I mean, of course if you think a stub doesen't count as a decent artcile, then we should probably close the Polish wikipedia since over 80% of their articles are either bot made or useless stubs.

::: On a final note, why can't you just leave the Chechen Wikipedia alone and let the Chechen people have their pride, freedom, and chance to expand their literary language with their own free encyclopedia. What gives you the right to tell another race of people that their language doesn't matter, is useless, and so on? That is a very racist thing to do, so I suggest you come up with a better reason for your approval or else I will move foreward as taking this closure proposal and reasons as an act of racism against the Chechen people and language, and most importantly, Islam. --[[User:Girdi|Girdi]] 13:51, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

:'''A note to Bogorm''': The comment in Spanish in the previous closure discussion was not made by an "impartial Spanish-speaking user", but by a well-known Wikipedian, who made many useful edits in the Hebrew Wikipedia, but was also blocked several times for socking and other trollish fun making and eventually announced his retirement. He was unusually curious about the Chechen people, but maybe it was just one of his jokes.

:'''A note to Girdi''': Please cool down and stop accusing other Wikimedians of racism. Right now. If you go and improve articles in the Chechen Wikipedia instead of arguing here, no-one will want to close it. --[[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] 22:07, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

:: Yeah, I want to, and I appreciate your opposition to this closure proposal, but I just am so busy with university. I much rather get a degree than sacrafice it for Wikipedia, but Chechen Wikipedia is a huge project of mine that I definitely do not neglect. I am trying to cool down ... --[[User:Girdi|Girdi]] 00:35, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

::: "''Chechen Wikipedia is a huge '''project of mine'''''" - a Wikipedia which is a single user's project turns out to be forsooth dubitable - even the Gothic Wikipedia [[Requests for new languages/Wikipedia Gothic|had 2 zealous editors in its beginning]] and look [[Gothic Wikipedians|how many they are now]] (I am not involved, I am a novice in the language)! And the Chechen language is not extinct, why did you fail to involve editors - in the Russian Federation there is a free access to Wikipedia unlike PRC and hitherto you are the main editor and no native speaker of the language?! If I opened a [[:w:Manchu language|Manchu]] Wikipedia just because of sheer predilection for the language, but noone from the exiguous number of native speakers (or people studying it - they are too scarce in number) became involved in the project (they would at least have a stringent reason - restricted Internet access in the PRC, and Chechens are not at all exiguous in number), then I would eventually have failed and the closure would be imminent! [[User:Bogorm|Bogorm]] 21:42, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

* {{Support}} only bot activites--[[User:Jaro.p|Jaro.p]] 16:10, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

==Against closing==

Line 34 ⟶ 50:

::::::: Your "So 5 edits a week? Get over it! I am not superhuman!" is discrepant from "real people"(real man?, singular?). Ere I decide to support the proposal I would like to ask you whether there is any other active editor (how many?) with, let's say, more than 200 edits in the main space(a confirming link would be appreciated)? As for now, the proposal seems sensible. [[User:Bogorm|Bogorm]] 20:36, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

* Ignoring this all above, my opinion is that the Chechen Wikipedia is ''large'', almost 400 pages. It has shown some recent activity and there are enough Chechen people living in a developed area to keep the wiki alive, so I oppose. --[[User:Ooswesthoesbes|OosWesThoesBes]] 05:09, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

*<small>(not ignoring the above but calling the involved parties to a constructive and non violent discussion)</small> I am against closure, because it is a valid language, the wikipedia ''has'' activity and imho the bots can be flagged and will then no longer disturb the recent changes anymore (I don't see a reason for any need to limit the bots there, they just should be flagged if they are of trusted bot owners and doing good work). --[[User:Spacebirdy|<font color="black">birdy</font> <font color="gray"><small>geimfyglið</small></font>]] [[User_talkUser talk:Spacebirdy|_{<font color="teal">(:>&nbsp;)=|</font>}]] 21:37, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

: I can see you are very opposed to the bot limit and not being so trustworthy. The thing is, Chechen Wikipedia is a big target politically from Russian activists and anti Islamists and the like. If you understood Russian, you could see many reverts from articles like "Chechnya" and such which attacks Chechnya and Chechen language. So as Chechens, you can't be so trustworthy so soon and we need to monitor ALL edits, including bots. If it was up to me, I would have no bots flagged so we can monitor all of their edits (except for Malafaya because he is very trustworthy as a bot programmer). There aren't many happy people seeing activity at the Chechen wikipedia...as you can see, it is the 2nd closure proposal too. I am a bit more calm now, but still really angry, but I apologise to the Meta-Wiki rules of personal attacks. --[[User:Girdi|Girdi]] 21:28, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

::Hello, I don't understand what You mean by 'I am not trustworthy' or what that even would have to do with my argument against closure. I am not interested in running a bot there, I was just surprised a very 'trustworthy' and good working bot was blocked there infinit, I hope this has no political reasons, but imho it looks bad. I understand that bot edits would have to be monitored from new users, but from very well established and 'trustworthy' users I don't understand. Thanks, --[[User:Spacebirdy|<font color="black">birdy</font> <font color="gray"><small>geimfyglið</small></font>]] [[User_talkUser talk:Spacebirdy|_{<font color="teal">(:>&nbsp;)=|</font>}]] 08:35, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

::You can give the bots flags, and then you can still choose to monitor the bot edits by clicking "show bot edits" in the recent changes. <span style="color:Purple; font-size:19pt;">☺</span>[[User:Coppertwig|Coppertwig]]([[User talk:Coppertwig|talk]]) 01:19, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

* {{oppose}} - Valid language which has been having enough activity (maybe not much lately but that does not seem to be the rule). [[User:Malafaya|Malafaya]] 14:06, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

* {{oppose}} I see this poposal as pretty near to vandalism. I suggest to dismiss it as a useless attempt to repeat another unsuccessfull attempt, stealing time, etc., and to do likewise for, say, two years at least, when it is raised again. --[[User:Purodha|Purodha Blissenbach]] 18:37, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

:: (to Purodha) Begreifen Sie die Zunahme von 300 Artikeln für zwei Jahre als einen besonders deutlichen Fortschritt? Meines Erachtens ist diese Diskussion unentbehrlich, zumal keine Veränderung im Vergleich zur Lage vor zwei Jahren eingetreten ist (die Diskussion ist nicht von mir hervorgerufen worden). Und weil es da keine sonstigen regelmäßigen Benutzer gibt außer [[User:Girdi]], der sogar der Sprache kaum mächtig ist und der diese Wikipedia für '''''sein''' Projekt'' hält (siehe oben) . Und die aktiven Benutzer sind laut der [[:ce:Башхо:Statistics|Statistik]] zwei, obgleich ich den zweiten noch nicht in den Recent Changes erblickt habe (für zwei Jahre - 300 Artikel und 1 aktiver Benutzer). Klingt das nicht beunruhigend? [[User:Bogorm|Bogorm]] 16:19, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

::: Well put Purodha! :) --[[User:Girdi|Girdi]] 01:19, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

* {{oppose}} there are [[List of Wikipedias by sample of articles|about 50 wikis in worse shape]] than Chechen wiki. I see no reason why, with patience, this couldn't be a viable wiki. --[[en:User:MarsRover|MarsRover]] 20:15, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

* {{oppose}} - Wikipedia Chechen may be prosper, The only thing we need is the time, I disagree with it's closure --[[User:Parthava|Ali]] 18:00, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

* {{oppose}} --[[User:Holder|Holder]] 12:48, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

* {{oppose}} 400 articles? [[User:Dovi|Dovi]] 18:01, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

* {{oppose}} [[User:Xqt|Xqt]] 10:20, 23 March 2010 (UTC)

* {{oppose}} 400 ARTICLES!!!! --[[User:Pineapple fez|Pineapple fez]] 01:29, 27 March 2010 (UTC)

* {{oppose}} Scandal !!! Let's save chechen wikipedia --[[Special:Contributions/79.49.33.231|79.49.33.231]] 02:24, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

==Discussion==

I voted '''against''' the closure of Chechen wikipedia in 2006 [//meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Proposals_for_closing_projects&diff=462725&oldid=462698] and contributed with my bot to link this wiki to all other languages for more than a year [//ce.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=%D0%91%D0%B0%D1%88%D1%85%D0%BE:Contributions&limit=500&target=VolkovBot], but after [[:ce:User:Girgi|Girdi]] [[Requests for comments/Bots on Chechen wikipedia|indef-blocked the bot without giving any reason]] I have the feeling like Girgi is trying to usurp this wiki. Frankly, I don't understand his attitude. If this wiki becomes a playground for a single person, I would vote for closing it. --[[User:Volkov|Volkov]] 10:32, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

: (To [[User:Volkov|Volkov]]) Я боюсь, что она уже превратилась в проект одного пользователя - [//meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Proposals_for_closing_projects%2FClosure_of_Chechen_(2)_Wikipedia&diff=1196891&oldid=1195110 здесь] он называет ее "a huge project of mine".<br>(to others)I do not understand it either, but by perusing his comments here the "playground for a single person" is becoming incontestably and increasingly ostentatious. I concur completely with Volkov's remarks. One Spanish-speaking user has already expressed doubts that it "would be a miracle if the situation ameliorated" and there are "no normal articles there"(see [[#For closing|above]]) [[User:Bogorm|Bogorm]] 15:36, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

'''2010!!!''' None of the administrators are active, and the wikipedia is still full of separatist paraphernalia. Right now there are only 2 solutions: 1. Remove all the administrative/bureaucratic "powers" from current users and give them to some "normal" Chechen speaking user. 2. Close the project. [[User:Wadim|Wadim]] 14:03, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

: Certainly more users should be involved, but (aside from the bot blocking mentioned above) the lack of participation doesn't seem to be related to any admin actions. <span style="background-color:white;color:#bbb;">&ndash;[[User:Sj|SJ]][[User Talk:Sj|<font style="color:#f90;">+</font>]]</span>

}}