Talk:Nasser Pourpirar: Difference between revisions

Revision as of 09:21, 7 April 2007

Latest revision as of 20:36, 21 January 2025

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{{WikiProject banner shell|class=Start|listas=Pourpirar, Nasser|blp=no|

{{Persian}}

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<s>==propose to delete==</s>

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<s>the guy is not notable and does not even have a college degree. </s> --[[User:Ali doostzadeh|alidoostzadeh]] 03:33, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

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:::Never mind , such revisionists should be exposed and known. Since some news websites from foreign countries are quoting him.. --[[User:Ali doostzadeh|alidoostzadeh]] 20:59, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

{{Archive box|[[/Archive 1]]}}

::::But Wikipedia isn't the place to "expose" anyone. As Khorshid likes to remind me, Wikipedia is not a soapbox. The question is, is the subject of the article notable? There is a case made here by me and others that this guy is a propagandist, a blogger and inconsequential in academic terms. I would also add that there is a strong POV in this article, yet little mention of the books he is supposed to have written. It looks more like an attack. The basis of a biography is: where was the person born, where was he educated, what is his career, what are his publications, what is the criticism. The article doesn't say anything about this. Why? Because he is irrelevant. He was mentioned once, in passing, in the introduction to a speech at a university in Isfahan. Some bloggers are upset by him. He doesn't even seem to have held a position in the Tudeh Party.--[[User:Ahwaz|الأهواز &#124; Hamid &#124; Ahwaz]] 21:17, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

::::::Nope if zundel has a page. all sort of genocide revisionists pages exist.. then guy that gets close to 5000 google hits in Persian google and has been features in pan-arab/pan-turkists circles [[http://www.tahapress.com/contentview.php?id=886]] should also have a page. He has no more than High school education by the way but is quoted as a great scholar by bani torof....--[[User:Ali doostzadeh|alidoostzadeh]] 21:21, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

:::::::Well, if you are prepared to give him publicity and you think he is important, then I guess you will insist on it. Just remember [[WP:LIVING]] and that there should be the most basic of biographical details. It would help to have a birthplace and birthdate, for example. And perhaps a list of books he has written and details of his career.--[[User:Ahwaz|الأهواز &#124; Hamid &#124; Ahwaz]] 21:28, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

:::::::By the way, don't you think it is odd that you are portraying him as both a supporter of President Ahmadinejad and a friend to separatists? Don't you think there is a contradiction there given that the separatists are currently opposing Ahmadinejad?--[[User:Ahwaz|الأهواز &#124; Hamid &#124; Ahwaz]] 21:31, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

:::::::Here's another contradiction: Pourpirar is portrayed by this Wikipedia article as both anti-Semitic and anti-Iranian. What is he: African? Arabs and Jews are both semitic. Most Persians are Indo-Aryan. If he hates both semites and iranians, then he has a problem with most of the Middle East. If a POV is going to be pushed, wouldn't it be a good idea to know what that POV is?--[[User:Ahwaz|الأهواز &#124; Hamid &#124; Ahwaz]] 21:36, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

:::::::::Thats not a contradiction. He is anti-Iranic and anti-Jewish. As per his viewpoints some of it is pasted below. Don't worry more details will be coming starting with his ideas and his books.. --[[User:Ali doostzadeh|alidoostzadeh]] 21:47, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

::::::::::Aha, and the claims that he is both a separatist and a supporter of the regime, that he is both an admirer of Saddam Hussein and Ayatollah Khomenei? This article is somewhat confused, don't you think?--[[User:Ahwaz|الأهواز &#124; Hamid &#124; Ahwaz]] 21:59, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

:::::::::::Actually he has worked with many elements throughout his life. He was member of tudeh, then worked for sharia'at madari and now he admires Saddam hussein.. his political ideologies thus have changed. 10 years ago he was pro-Achaemenid..now he says the Achaemenid dynasty has been fabricated by jews! (along with seljuqs, Sassanids, Samanids, Parthians).. --[[User:Ali doostzadeh|alidoostzadeh]] 22:27, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

== External links modified ==

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

== Proposal to delete ==

''I've readded this title as there is still no consensus, despite the change of mind by the proposer. So far, it looks like three in favour and two against deletion (I'm unclear where [[User:Alborz Fallah|Alborz Fallah]] stands). It might be better to submit this to an AfD and get wider consultation.--[[User:Ahwaz|الأهواز &#124; Hamid &#124; Ahwaz]] 00:40, 7 April 2007 (UTC)''

:::Actually I did not here anything from Khorshid opposing it. Alborz Fallah does not oppose it either. --[[User:Ali doostzadeh|alidoostzadeh]] 01:04, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

::::Given that Khorshid created the article and wrote most of it, and is also defending the notability of the subject, I assumed he was against deletion. But I am very sure he will not hold back from speaking for himself.--[[User:Ahwaz|الأهواز &#124; Hamid &#124; Ahwaz]] 01:09, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

:::::Actually it was created by this guy [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Nazcas]] and not Khorshid. --[[User:Ali doostzadeh|alidoostzadeh]] 02:19, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

::::::I think you'll find that Khorshid changed the article from a redirect and wrote an article[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Nasser_Pourpirar&diff=120115176&oldid=119667532]--[[User:Ahwaz|الأهواز &#124; Hamid &#124; Ahwaz]] 09:13, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

:I agree. I've never heard of him. Has anyone got a bibliography for this guy and his background?--[[User:Ahwaz|الأهواز &#124; Hamid &#124; Ahwaz]] 10:38, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

::You've never heard of him? You sure about that??? Bani-Torofs and the separatist professor at Shaw's ideas about Arabs being in Iran before Aryans comes from this person. He is a well-known reactionary political figure in Iran, and the sources show notability. His ideas are ridiculous, but remember that Khomeini and Ahmadinejad and their ilk share and believe these Arabist revisionist views, e.g. that false history should be promoted so that Iran should become an Arab country in the name of "Islamic unity". [[User:Khorshid|Khorshid]] 17:48, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

:[http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&safe=off&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&hs=Ras&q=%22Nasser+Pourpirar%22&btnG=Search&meta= Google search] bring about 1 non-wikipedia/wikipedia fork/blog sites that refer to him. He doesn't seem notable in English sources, atleast with the current spelling of the article's title --[[User:Rayis|Rayis]] 18:08, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

I have just added archive links to {{plural:1|one external link|1 external links}} on [[Nasser Pourpirar]]. Please take a moment to review [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=prev&oldid=706560201 my edit]. If necessary, add {{tlx|cbignore}} after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{tlx|nobots|deny{{=}}InternetArchiveBot}} to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:

:::All I can see is just one mention of Pourpirar, which Bani Torouf said in his introduction that he had read after the speech you have linked to. As for the claim that Professor Ali al-Taie is a separatist, he states quite clearly that "there will never be, nor should there be, disintegration or separatism in Iran. Rather, all Iranian people, regardless of their ethnic background, should live under a pluralistic, tolerant, and federal society."[http://www.aei.org/events/filter.,eventID.1166/summary.asp] I see no reference to Pourpirar in anything Dr al-Taie has written or said. This is just your way of slandering people. Incidentally, Bani Torouf has been arrested twice since Ahmadinejad came to power. I read his columns on the Elaph website. How can you say he is an Ahmadinejad ally? Another act of slander. Pourpirar appears to be a former communist now trying to find favour with the regime. He doesn't seem to be important or notable.--[[User:Ahwaz|الأهواز &#124; Hamid &#124; Ahwaz]] 18:13, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20070811123315/http://www.naria.blogfa.com/85084.aspx to http://www.naria.blogfa.com/85084.aspx

::::See [[WP:CIVIL]]. Don't accuse me of "slandering" anyone. Remember your block history, so step lightly. [[User:Khorshid|Khorshid]] 18:32, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

:::::You can't make baseless accusations against living people. It is a Wikipedia rule. See [[WP:LIVING]].--[[User:Ahwaz|الأهواز &#124; Hamid &#124; Ahwaz]] 20:27, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

:::Incidentally, have you read any of his works? Can you name any of his works?--[[User:Ahwaz|الأهواز &#124; Hamid &#124; Ahwaz]] 18:15, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

::::The above questions are irrelevant. We rely on secondary sources here on Wikipedia, not first-person experience. See [[WP:OR]]. And Bani-Torof clearly mentions Pourpirar and his books (read the article, do your own work) as the basis for his lame revisionist theories. [[User:Khorshid|Khorshid]] 18:32, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

:::::I'm just asking. Have you read his books? Do you know of any book he has written? You have written most of the article, so you obviously know a lot about him. Wouldn't it be a good idea to list his works?--[[User:Ahwaz|الأهواز &#124; Hamid &#124; Ahwaz]] 20:27, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

:::I have just found the publishing company that Pourpirar is involved in[http://www.karangbooks.com/aboutuse.html]. Far from being anti-Iranian, this publishing company publishes books on Ancient Persian [http://www.karangbooks.com/english%20books/pages/Colour3.htm] and Ancient Persian art [http://www.karangbooks.com/Edit1/honar%20j/Honar%20iran.htm]. I am beginning to doubt the way in which Pourpirar is portrayed in your biography, which relies heavily on one or two sources, largely Farsi blogs, and a quotation that could have been taken out of context and certainly doesn't confirm your contention that he is some kind of Nazi. But I really don't know anything about the man and haven't heard about him until you wrote an article--[[User:Ahwaz|الأهواز &#124; Hamid &#124; Ahwaz]] 18:22, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

::::More nonsense. Pourpirar is Iranian and lives in Iran, so naturally his books are going to be published in Iran by state-sponsored publishers! Again, stop wasting my time. [[User:Khorshid|Khorshid]] 18:32, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

:::::Of course, we know that. But the publishing company he appears to be involved in publishes books on pre-Islamic Persian history. One books description says: "The art of Ancient Iran has a place of its own in the cultural heritage of the East. For centuries it has been admired for its lyrical quality and finesse combined with classically lucid, pure style. The finest specimens of Persian art have long been regarded as true standards of beauty and impeccable artistic taste."[http://www.karangbooks.com/Edit1/honar%20j/Honar%20iran.htm] So, I'm not so sure he is anti-Iranian.--[[User:Ahwaz|الأهواز &#124; Hamid &#124; Ahwaz]] 20:27, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

::::BTW, if you guys really don't like this page, delete it. I have no stake in this matter either way. [[User:Khorshid|Khorshid]] 18:40, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

::He is a blogger, an opportunist and propaganda maker with no proper education. Naturally his writings are not cited by scholars and are only reflected in weblogs and webpages related to political circles that benefit from propagandas. He is indeed following [[Sadeq Khalkhali]], another pseudo-scholar . [[User:Sina Kardar|Sina Kardar]] 18:50, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

:::Certainly, his importance is exagerrated by this article.--[[User:Ahwaz|الأهواز &#124; Hamid &#124; Ahwaz]] 20:27, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the ''checked'' parameter below to '''true''' to let others know.

::: Keep the article actually.. he has been quoted by some nuts of late in separatist sites. Also hamid does not understand that publishing books is different than writing books. We are talking about the bookjs he actually writes and not the one his publishing house (due to need of money) publishes. Hamid/Ahwaz of course you know about the man and he is a major pan-rabist. Since Bani-Torof mentions him and so do some other separatists, it is good to have an article on him since Persian google gets a lot of hits. --[[User:Ali doostzadeh|alidoostzadeh]] 20:49, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

:::: It is interesting to see how you changed your mind when I agreed with you.--[[User:Ahwaz|الأهواز &#124; Hamid &#124; Ahwaz]] 21:09, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

::::: very interesting. --[[User:Ali doostzadeh|alidoostzadeh]] 21:13, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

:* Naser Bana konandeh '''ناصر بنا کننده''' : that was his Original name . He had a bad record in the "Nile" Pub.Inc and also a record of jail for spying (2 years ) .... [[User:Alborz Fallah|Alborz Fallah]] 22:02, 6 April 2007 (UTC)Alborz Fallah

{{sourcecheck|checked=false}}

The correct term that should be used is "antisemitic" for people who are "anti-Jew". The debate on Arabs being also Semitic is more for the [[Antisemitism]] article, so Ahwaz if you want Arabs to be included in that definition I suggest you suggest it there. In the English language though "antisemitic" is restricted only to people who hate Jews. Pourpirar qualifies as "antisemitic" since he is promoting "jewish conspiracy theories". I find it interesting Ahwaz that you never edit articles that relate to anti-arabism such as [[Eurabia]] or [[Bat Ye'or]], etc. [[User:Khorshid|Khorshid]] 03:07, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

:What's your point? I contributed some of the content on [[Anti-Arabism]]. I disagree that anti-Semitic necessarily excludes Arabs. There are a few Iranian extremists who have racialist theories that maintain the Semitic races are inferior to the Aryan races. You can see these from extremist groups such as Anjoman-e Padeshahi, which says some awful things about Arabs and Jews and desecrates the Qu'ran. It doesn't have any popularity, of course, but there are anti-Semites in Iran who hate both Arabs and Jews. Pourpirar is obviously not one of them, from what you say, but I don't know anything about him. This article's entry is the first I have heard of him. He must be only popular in Iran.--[[User:Ahwaz|الأهواز &#124; Hamid &#124; Ahwaz]] 09:21, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

Cheers.—[[User:Cyberbot II|<sup style="color:green;font-family:Courier;">cyberbot II</sup>]]<small><sub style="margin-left:-14.9ex;color:green;font-family:Comic Sans MS;">[[User talk:Cyberbot II|<span style="color:green;">Talk to my owner</span>]]:Online</sub></small> 00:09, 24 February 2016 (UTC)

=== some quotes we should translate ===

== Embezzlement ==

Part 0)

است، تقدیم می کنم.

The claim that he "embezzled the party's money" is not supported by any evidence, and is stated as a fact. The article referenced in the following sentence does not seem to mention any of this. You can't make a claim like that without any evidence.

۱. رخ داد حادثه ی پلید پوریم، در پایان دوران حکومت مشترک داریوش اول و خشایارشا، ادامه ی تجمع و تحرک و تمدن و تولید را در سراسر شرق میانه متوقف کرد و به سهولت قابل اثبات است که کرونولوژی حاکمان هخامنشی، پس از خشایارشا، واقعی نیست و بر مبنای کتیبه های جعلی و تازه سازی ادعا می شود، که به تعداد اندک، این جا و آن جا سر هم بندی کرده اند.

۲. بخش هایی از زیگورات تصرفی ایلامی، که امروز تخت جمشید خوانده می شود، به وسیله ی داریوش و خشایارشا تخریب و به جای آن چند بنای سنگی پایه ریزی شد که هیچ قسمت آن ها بیش از ۳۵ درصد پیشرفت ساختمانی نداشته است.

۳. کلیه ی اسناد و اطلاعات موجود در باره ی ساسانیان و از جمله کتیبه های نقش رجب، نقش رستم و غار حاجی آباد، به خط موهوم پهلوی، جعل جدید است و از شاه کارهای خیانت فرهنگی دانشگاه های یهود زده ی غرب شمرده می شود.

۴. ابنیه ای را که با نام کاخ های کورش در پاسارگاد معرفی می کنند، تا پیش از سال ۱۳۴۰ شمسی وجود خارجی نداشته و از آن پس به سعی آستروناخ یهودی، از جمله با سود بردن از بقایای مصالح مسجد و کاروان سرای اتابکی، در مزارع دشت مرغاب، جورچینی کرده اند.

برای حفظ تعادل و تحمل آقای صادقی، و با رعایت سطح و میزان گنجایش مخزن تعجب ایشان، تردید های دیگری را که همراه عکس ها و اسناد بدون ابهام، در کتاب های جدید مجموعه ی «تاملی در بنیان تاریخ ایران» عرضه شده، از لیست بیرون می گذارم، بی این که به قیاس زمانی که برای رونویسی تکرار نامه ی «کورش و بابل» صرف شده، ذره ای امیدوار باشم که آقای صادقی، لااقل در تتمه ی عمر من، حتی از عهده ی فهم همین چند مدخل برآید، چه رسد به این که پاسخ و احتمالا ردیه ای حتی در اندازه و ارزش جزوه ی «کورش و بابل» برای آن ها آماده کند.

Part I)

ملا نصرالدین هایی در کار معرفی تمدن ایران باستان!!! (۸)

خراب کاری یهودیان، در برداشت های ما، از هویت و فرهنگ و تاریخ خویش، چنان افیون زدگی و فرو ریزی در بنای اندیشه ها پدید آورده و به دور نام ها و کلماتی بی بنیان، چنان هاله ای از تقدس و احترام و ترس کشیده است، که مجرد دعوت به مفهوم شناسی نیز، هراس از خماری را، از بیم قطع این افیون، در کسانی دامن می زند.

از فارس گستران که بگذریم، می مانند یکی دو تن از دوستان، که چنین صراحتی در بررسی نقشه های به اصطلاح کهن خلیج فارس را فرصت بخشی به جنجالگران شوونیست فارس مسلک می دانند تا به بهتان آفرینی دست زنند. این دوستان فراموش کرده اند که در پنج سال گذشته، و از نخستین کتاب، با صراحت کامل کوشیده ام اثبات کنم که در سرزمین ایران هرگز و در هیچ زمان قوم و جغرافیایی به نام فارس نبوده و آنان که ایران را سرزمین فارسیان و یا خلیج جنوبی ایران را خلیج فارس می خوانند، در اصل قصد کرده اند بر توطئه هایی مهر تایید زنند که در زمان رضا شاه، با علم کردن یک قوم بی نشانه با نام فارس، علیه وحدت ملی و منطقه ای ما تدارک دیده شد. آن ها در هیاهویی که گرد این نام بر پا کرده اند، نه به دنبال عرضه ی ارادت و عرق ملی، بل مشغول حفظ قداست نام قومی هستند که یهودیان در همین اواخر، به مدد آزمایشگاهی از جعل، در زیر زمین های اورشلیم، اختراع تاریخی کرده اند.

بدون تردید اگر این خلیج را، از ده هزار سال پیش به این سو، خلیج بوشهر و کرمان و سیستان و آبادان خوانده بودند، حتی اگر ژاپنی ها هم یکشبه آن را به نام خویش مصادره می کردند، اندک صدای اعتراض زیر لبی هم از این فارس خواهان بروز نمی کرد و بر نمی خاست، زیرا آن ها به مردم و سرزمین ایران نمی اندیشند، بل به استقرار و اقتدار قوم فارس علاقه دارند که یهودیان برای بر هم زدن اتحاد ملی و منطقه ای ما، در دهه های اخیر، همراه هزاران افسانه ی یاوه و دروغ مسلم دیگر، از قبیل نژاد آریا و دین زردشت و کتاب شاه نامه و غیره، تولید کرده اند. برای نمونه دیدیم که عنوان «دریای قزوین» در شمال ایران را، که اشاره به یک قوم کهن ایرانی داشت، به «دریای خزر»، یعنی اقلیمی برگرداندند، که موطن و مسکن اصلی قوم کورش بود و حضراتی که اینک برای حفظ نام فارس بر خلیج جنوبی ایران گریبان می درند، در باب این تعویض، و باز هم به فرمان یهود، رضایت مندانه سکوت کرده اند. برای استحکام این نظر، بی بصیرتان باستان پرست را دعوت می کنم که به همان نقشه های کهن جعلی و یا نقشه های جدید ۵۰۰ سال اخیر، از جغرافیای منطقه ی ما، که در کتاب «خلیج فارس در نقشه های کهن» جمع شده، رجوع کنند تا معلوم شان شود درست به همان میزان که ذکر نام خلیج فارس در این نقشه ها با جعل و حقه بازی توام است، همه جا دریای خزر امروز، با نام «دریای قزوین» ثبت است، این که فارس سازان و فارس خواهان هرگز به تغییر نام دریای قزوین به دریای خزر، کم ترین اعتراضی نداشته و ندارند، شاید از این بابت است که یا مردم قزوین را، خلاف فارس ها، لایق داشتن دریا نمی دانند و یا احتمالا از قزوینیان خاطره ی خوشی در خیال ندارند؟!!!

اساس بحث جاری در این یادداشت ها، اثبات این مطلب است که تمام پذیرش های کنونی ما درباره ی فارس ها و به طور کلی موضوعات جاری و مندرج در تاریخ ایران باستان، از قبیل امپراتوری های ظاهرا قدرتمند هخامنشی و اشکانی و ساسانی و مزدک و مانی و زردشت و اوستا و ادعاهایی در باره ی تخت جمشید و پاسارگاد و کتیبه های نقش رستم و کتاب های دروغین در موضوع فرهنگ و هستی و هویت فارسیان و ایرانیان پیش از اسلام، یکسره حقه بازی جاعلانه ای است که در برابر سخت گیری های محقق، یک لحظه هم دوام نمی آورند. فارس منکری من در این یادداشت ها جنگ با آن گروه از اندیشه های ساختگی ضد ملی است که در سده ی اخیر سخت ترین آسیب های تاریخی و فرهنگی و سیاسی و اقتصادی را بر سر زمین ما وارد کرده و در پس این ستیز ذره ای طمع و تبلیغ قومی قرار ندارد، زیرا که من خود به اصطلاح فارس شناخته می شوم. چنان که بحث جاری در باب جست و جوی اجاره نشین جدیدی برای این خلیج نیست، تذکر این نکته است که با دروغ و جعلیات واضح، چون نقشه هایی که به مثابه مستند فارس خواندن خلیج ارائه می دهند، وجدانا قادر به اثبات حقانیت خود نیستیم.

Part II)

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