Talk:Search engine optimization: Difference between revisions

Revision as of 13:36, 16 March 2025

Latest revision as of 16:52, 28 August 2025

(42 intermediate revisions by 27 users not shown)

Line 45:

{{xreadership|days=75}}

{{User:MiszaBot/config

|archiveheader = {{Talk archive}}

|algo = old(182d)

|maxarchivesize = 100K

|minthreadsleft = 51

|minthreadstoarchive = 1

|counter = 6

|archive = Talk:Search engine optimization/Archive %(counter)d

}}

__TOC__

== ProposalUpdating toKeyword ExpandStuffing Section onfor CoreModern WebAlgorithms Vitals(BERT, in SEORankBrain) ==

While keyword stuffing is still recognized as a bad practice, I believe the article should mention newer search algorithms like BERT, RankBrain, and their focus on understanding user intent and context. Perhaps we can update the section to reflect the evolution of search engine algorithms. [[User:ASWATHI S Nambiar|ASWATHI S Nambiar]] ([[User talk:ASWATHI S Nambiar|talk]]) 06:41, 18 February 2025 (UTC)

Hello,

:Please propose a [[WP:RS|reliable source]]. [[User:Grayfell|Grayfell]] ([[User talk:Grayfell|talk]]) 10:06, 18 February 2025 (UTC)

I’ve been reviewing the '''Search Engine Optimization''' article, and I believe the section on '''on-page SEO techniques''' could benefit from an update. Given the recent emphasis Google has placed on '''Core Web Vitals''' as a ranking signal, this topic seems underrepresented in the current article.

::I believe search engine land is a reliable source, they publish articles, analyses, and research reports on SEO and search engine algorithms.

::https://searchengineland.com/library/platforms/google/google-algorithm-updates

::[[User:ASWATHI S Nambiar|ASWATHI S Nambiar]] ([[User talk:ASWATHI S Nambiar|talk]]) 04:39, 19 February 2025 (UTC)

:::Based on your talk page, you have previously been warned about promotional editing, so I can't help but suspect your intentions for wanting to add this site are promotional. Do you have any affiliation with it? [[User:TornadoLGS|TornadoLGS]] ([[User talk:TornadoLGS|talk]]) 04:42, 19 February 2025 (UTC)

::::I suggested Search Engine Land because it provides a clear explanation of BERT and RankBrain's impact on keyword stuffing, a topic currently lacking in the Wikipedia article.

::::I believe this information is crucial for an update. I'm also happy to supplement it with corroborating sources like Search Engine Journal and Moz. My goal is to improve the article, not promote any specific site. [[User:ASWATHI S Nambiar|ASWATHI S Nambiar]] ([[User talk:ASWATHI S Nambiar|talk]]) 05:05, 19 February 2025 (UTC)

:::::I think this is a good idea, but it's worth noting that Moz is a blocked ___domain on Wikipedia right now due to past activity. [[User:Dflovett|Dflovett]] ([[User talk:Dflovett|talk]]) 15:59, 28 July 2025 (UTC)

== Semi-protected edit request on 26 March 2025 ==

Would it be worth expanding this section to include a breakdown of '''Core Web Vitals''' (Largest Contentful Paint, First Input Delay, and Cumulative Layout Shift) and their importance in modern SEO strategies? There’s solid research from sources like Google’s Web.dev and independent SEO research firms like Moz that could be used as references.

{{edit semi-protected|Search engine optimization|answered=yes}}

I’d be happy to help provide references and structure the update if the community agrees it would add value to the article. Looking forward to your feedback! [[User:Shahzaibahmadkhan|Shahzaibahmadkhan]] ([[User talk:Shahzaibahmadkhan|talk]]) 17:52, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

[[User:Shahnewajkhan|Shahnewajkhan]] ([[User talk:Shahnewajkhan|talk]]) 20:44, 26 March 2025 (UTC)

: It would depend on the sources used, taking note of the spam warnings on your talk page. <b>[[User:Ohnoitsjamie|OhNo<span style="color: #D47C14;">itsJamie</span>]] [[User talk:Ohnoitsjamie|^Talk]]</b> 18:39, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

:Core Web Vitals is not a major ranking signal and it's only specific to Google. Search engine optimization is about managing the relationship between Websites and ALL search engines. There is no justification for including a section about Core Web Vitals in this article. It seriously needs clean up. Adding more Google-specific content that isn't even significant will just make it less useful. [[User:Michael Martinez|Michael Martinez]] ([[User talk:Michael Martinez|talk]]) 15:37, 16 September 2024 (UTC)

Request to Update Outdated Information on Mobile Search & Indexing

== Blog networks are not link farms, and vice versa ==

Hi, I would like to update a section of the article to reflect the latest developments in Google's mobile-first indexing and mobile search strategy.

There is no Wikipedia-acceptable reliable source that accurately describes the difference between a "blog network" and a "link farm". These articles have been challenged by some Wikipedians for not sourcing their statements of fact correctly, and that's just never going to happen because the people who created these spam systems don't publish academic papers, aren't profiled by the Wall Street Journal, and aren't considered reliable sources. A link farm is any group of Websites that all link to each other [regardless of whether they are blogs] for the purpose of manipulating or influencing search engine crawling, indexing, and/or ranking. The link farms were created by adding pages filled with links to existing Websites. They had nothing to do with blogging.

Current Text:

Link spammers turned to creating blog networks that sold home page backlinks after the link farms were killed off by the search engines. The blog networks did NOT all link to each other. They merely sold links to other sites. This article and the Link Farm article should not be using the terms interchangeably. That's like saying killer whales are sharks because they're both sea predators. [[User:Michael Martinez|Michael Martinez]] ([[User talk:Michael Martinez|talk]]) 05:30, 12 December 2024 (UTC)

"In 2015, it was reported that Google was developing and promoting mobile search as a key feature within future products. In response, many brands began to take a different approach to their Internet marketing strategies."

Proposed Revision:

Hey [[User:Michael Martinez|Michael Martinez]] - I think the edit that flagged your concern was one that I made, and it was not intended to cause trouble or make it so that this article was taking a stance on this. I noticed that "blog network" was linking to "link farm" and so I tried to call out clearly where that link was going to take someone before they clicked it. You made the right call by just deleting that out. I think this is definitely an issue within Wikipedia, and a distinction that's needed, but not sure where to take this from here.[[User:Dflovett|Dflovett]] ([[User talk:Dflovett|talk]]) 18:07, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

"Since 2015, Google has prioritized mobile search as a key factor in search rankings, leading to the widespread adoption of mobile-first indexing. In 2020, Google confirmed that all websites would be indexed based on their mobile versions.<ref>{{Cite web |url=https://developers.google.com/search/blog/2020/03/announcing-mobile-first-indexing-for |title="Announcing mobile-first indexing for the whole web" |website=Google Search Central Blog |date=March 5, 2020 |access-date=March 27, 2025}}</ref> This shift prompted businesses to optimize their websites for mobile performance, focusing on factors such as loading speed, interactivity, and visual stability—metrics now measured by Core Web Vitals.<ref>{{Cite web |url=https://developers.google.com/search/docs/appearance/core-web-vitals |title="Core Web Vitals & Page Experience" |website=Google Search Central Documentation |access-date=March 27, 2025}}</ref> Furthermore, Google has continued enhancing mobile search with AI-powered features, including AI Overviews and an experimental AI Mode, reshaping the way users interact with search results.<ref>{{Cite web |url=https://blog.google/products/search/ai-mode-search/ |title="A new era of Search with AI Overviews and more" |website=Google Blog |date=May 14, 2024 |access-date=March 27, 2025}}</ref>"

Reason for Edit:

:This article is a mess and doesn't really do things the Wikipedia way. But for reasons I explained above, there's never going to be a Wikipedia way to document search engine optimization accurately. There are no industry standards, everyone (even in academia) just makes up terminology for their own purposes, and the people who pioneered some of these techniques (including me) are considered Primary Sources (although there is a suggested way to use them - [[Wikipedia:Identifying and using primary sources|Wikipedia:Identifying and using primary sources - Wikipedia]]). At this point, my goal is just to keep the confusion in the article to a minimum. I don't have time and energy to do much actual editing on Wikipedia these days. [[User:Michael Martinez|Michael Martinez]] ([[User talk:Michael Martinez|talk]]) 19:18, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

The current sentence only references 2015 predictions about mobile search, which are outdated.

The proposed edit includes factual updates on mobile-first indexing (officially implemented in 2020).

== Semi-protected edit request on 24 December 2024 ==

It adds relevant, verifiable sources from Google, ensuring accuracy.

{{edit semi-protected|Search engine optimization|answered=yes}}

please allow me to edit [[User:Abs sadiq|Abs sadiq]] ([[User talk:Abs sadiq|talk]]) 02:13, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

The revised content provides a more comprehensive overview of how mobile search has evolved.

:It doesn't work that way. Read the instructions in the tag you placed in your request. And if you're hoping to drop a link in the article to your Website, that won't last more than 10 minutes at most. [[User:Michael Martinez|Michael Martinez]] ([[User talk:Michael Martinez|talk]]) 02:21, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for reviewing this request!

== Semi-protected edit request on 16 January 2025 ==

:{{Not done}}: please provide [[Wikipedia:Reliable sources|reliable sources]] that support the change you want to be made.<!-- Template:ESp --> ([[WP:secondary|secondary sources]]) [[User:Perception312|Perception312]] ([[User talk:Perception312|talk]]) 20:13, 8 June 2025 (UTC)

{{reflist-talk}}

== Addressing update and essay-like issues ==

I've made targeted edits to address the maintenance tags:

* Replaced outdated 2008 UK market share data with current 2024 statistics

* Removed irrelevant 2006 industry size comparisons

* Updated general statements about Google's market dominance with current context

* Removed prescriptive language and business advice

* Changed tutorial-style "how to" content to neutral descriptions

* Replaced subjective recommendations with objective industry observations

* Consolidated repetitive Google algorithm update history

* Maintained informational value while improving readability

Request review for removal of maintenance tags. [[User:TarynCheese|TarynCheese]] ([[User talk:TarynCheese|talk]]) 01:58, 13 August 2025 (UTC)

== Semi-protected edit request on 18 August 2025 ==

{{Edit semi-protected|Search engine optimization|answered=yes}}

1. In the "History" section, add this paragraph after the 2024 update note:

I would like to add an internal link to the term "target audience" in the sentence:

"By 2024, the rise of generative AI tools like ChatGPT and Google's Search Generative Experience (SGE) led to the development of Generative Engine Optimization (GEO). This new approach focuses on optimizing content for AI-generated answers in addition to traditional search results, requiring adjustments to content structure and authority signals.[1][2]"

2. Add a new subsection under "Methods" titled "AI and generative search optimization" with:

Current text:

"{{Main|Generative engine optimization}}

which search engines are preferred by a target audience.

With the advent of AI-powered search tools, SEO strategies have expanded to include:

* Optimization for featured snippets in AI-generated answers

* Structured data markup for large language model comprehension

* Balancing AI-assisted content creation with Google's 'Helpful Content' guidelines[3]"

References:

Proposed change in source editor format:

[1] https://blog.google/products/search/generative-ai-search/

which search engines are preferred by a [[Target audience|target audience]].

[2] https://www.searchenginejournal.com/generative-engine-optimization/492329/

[3] https://developers.google.com/search/blog/2023/02/google-search-and-ai-content [[User:Microarindam|Microarindam]] ([[User talk:Microarindam|talk]]) 20:03, 18 August 2025 (UTC)

:{{Not done}}''':''' please provide [[Wikipedia:Reliable sources|reliable sources]] that support the change you want to be made.<!-- Template:ESp --> Your second reference is a dead link, and the other two (from Google) are somewhat promotional, and I would consider them primary sources. Ideally, with reference to more reliable sources, the tone of this can be made less promotional. [[User:Seercat3160|Seercat3160]] ([[User talk:Seercat3160|talk]]) 10:34, 19 August 2025 (UTC)

== Semi-protected edit request on 28 August 2025 ==

This will link the phrase "target audience" to the Wikipedia article on Target audience (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Target_audience), providing additional context and helping readers understand the term better. [[User:Digital Dharmesh|Digital Dharmesh]] ([[User talk:Digital Dharmesh|talk]]) 05:09, 16 January 2025 (UTC)

:{{a note}}<!-- Template:ESp --> I'm not convinced it's needed. [[User:M.Bitton|M.Bitton]] ([[User talk:M.Bitton|talk]]) 11:49, 16 January 2025 (UTC)

:[[File:X mark.svg|20px|link=|alt=]] '''Not done for now''': please establish a [[Wikipedia:Consensus|consensus]] for this alteration '''[[Wikipedia:Edit requests|before]]''' using the {{Tlx|Edit semi-protected}} template.<!-- Template:ESp --> Due to M.Bitton opposing the requested edit, I am marking this as not done for now, once a consensus has been reached, you may reopen the request. [[User:Shadow311|Shadow311]] ([[User talk:Shadow311|talk]]) 18:11, 16 January 2025 (UTC)

{{edit semi-protected|Search engine optimization|answered=yes}}

== Updating Keyword Stuffing Section for Modern Algorithms (BERT, RankBrain) ==

{{subst:trim|1=

Current:

While keyword stuffing is still recognized as a bad practice, I believe the article should mention newer search algorithms like BERT, RankBrain, and their focus on understanding user intent and context. Perhaps we can update the section to reflect the evolution of search engine algorithms. [[User:ASWATHI S Nambiar|ASWATHI S Nambiar]] ([[User talk:ASWATHI S Nambiar|talk]]) 06:41, 18 February 2025 (UTC)

“Search engine optimization (SEO) is the process of improving the quality and quantity of website traffic to a website or a web page from search engines.”

Suggested Revision:

:Please propose a [[WP:RS|reliable source]]. [[User:Grayfell|Grayfell]] ([[User talk:Grayfell|talk]]) 10:06, 18 February 2025 (UTC)

“Search engine optimization (SEO) refers to techniques used to enhance both the quality and volume of traffic to a website or web page through organic search engine results.”

::I believe search engine land is a reliable source, they publish articles, analyses, and research reports on SEO and search engine algorithms.

::https://searchengineland.com/library/platforms/google/google-algorithm-updates

::[[User:ASWATHI S NambiarBillysee|ASWATHI S NambiarBillysee]] ([[User talk:ASWATHI S NambiarBillysee|talk]]) 0405:3927, 1928 FebruaryAugust 2025 (UTC)

:{{not done}}''':'''<!-- Template:ESp --> No reason given for the proposed change. [[User:Day Creature|Day Creature]] ([[User talk:Day Creature|talk]]) 16:52, 28 August 2025 (UTC)

:::Based on your talk page, you have previously been warned about promotional editing, so I can't help but suspect your intentions for wanting to add this site are promotional. Do you have any affiliation with it? [[User:TornadoLGS|TornadoLGS]] ([[User talk:TornadoLGS|talk]]) 04:42, 19 February 2025 (UTC)

::::I suggested Search Engine Land because it provides a clear explanation of BERT and RankBrain's impact on keyword stuffing, a topic currently lacking in the Wikipedia article.

== Why does 'SEO spam' link to this page, when this page contains absolutely no reference to SEO spam? ==

::::I believe this information is crucial for an update. I'm also happy to supplement it with corroborating sources like Search Engine Journal and Moz. My goal is to improve the article, not promote any specific site. [[User:ASWATHI S Nambiar|ASWATHI S Nambiar]] ([[User talk:ASWATHI S Nambiar|talk]]) 05:05, 19 February 2025 (UTC)

The page doesn't even contain any indication that SEO has any relevance to spam, or that anybody has ever connected the concepts.

According to the archives, the page used to contain information about the pros and cons, controversies, negative effects and social impacts.

Now all the discussion seems to be about exactly which SEO practices and companies can be promoted more.

Is it really just me that thinks if a practice is so frequently exploited for profit that the world's richest companies have spent decades trying to combat (according to [https://blog.google/products/search/google-search-update-march-2024/ Google], anyway) the Wikipedia page linked to 'SEO spam' ought to contain at least a section on the negative impacts, rather than a vague paragraph on 'black hat SEO' presenting the multi-billion dollar scam industry as a quirky trickster who occasionally changes hats? [[User:Moubliezpas|Moubliezpas]] ([[User talk:Moubliezpas|talk]]) 10:16, 28 August 2025 (UTC)