Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion: Difference between revisions

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Latest revision as of 07:26, 26 August 2025

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{{Short description|Discussion venue for potentially problematic redirects}}

{{Wikipedia:Redirects for deletion/Header}}

{{redirect|WP:RFD|other requests for deletion|Wikipedia:Deletion venues|requests for discussion|Wikipedia:Requests for comment|the reference desk|Wikipedia:Reference desk}}

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{{#ifexpr:{{#invoke:XfD old/AfD and MfD|rfd|month=total}}>20|{{admin backlog|auto=yes}}}}

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==<span class="anchor" id="CURRENT">Current list</span>==

==Holding pen==

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Some redirects cannot be deleted because of a [[Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Archive2#Deletion bugs|temporary software limitation]]. They are listed here until the limitation is removed and they can be finally deleted.

{{Wikipedia community|state=collapsed}}

[[Category:Wikipedia discussion]]

* [[Bush regeneration DELETE]]

[[Category:Wikipedia redirecting]]

* [[Find or fix a stub DELETE]]

* [[Assault rifle/bans DELETE]]

* [[Gaspé Peninsula DELETE]]

* [[A.M. Daniels DELETE]]

* [[Fun with headlines DELETE]]

* [[AICT DELETE]]

* [[Bare Hearties DELETE]]

* [[Basque (in the Philippines) DELETE]]

* [[LULUX DELETE]]

* [[Shroomery DELETE]]

* [[Talk:Shroomery]]

===December 12===

* [[Cornell Hangovers]] : Target of Redirect does not exist : Target is: [[Cornell University Glee Club]]

* [[Cornell University Hangovers]] : Target of Redirect does not exist : Target is: [[Cornell University Glee Club]]

** (Offstage cursing and gnashing of teeth.) The first use to redirect to the second, which used to have content. The second was later turned into a redirect to a ''third'' article, one that was later deleted for copyvio. I'd just restore the content on the second, except... that one was VfD'd, but I can't find any record of the discussion on [[Wikipedia:Archived delete debates/May to Jun 2004]], which is the relevant time period. Bah. Maybe I'll just restore the content, and let someone VfD it properly this time. [[User:Jnc|Noel]] [[User_talk:Jnc|(talk)]] 00:18, 13 Dec 2004 (UTC)

** '''Delete''' [[User:Masterhomer|Masterhomer]] 21:51, 25 Dec 2004 (UTC)

** '''Delete''' both. Unlikely that the historical revisions would survive VfD and no one has done anything to this well over a month. [[User:Jni|jni]] 15:21, 4 Feb 2005 (UTC)

** Been busy with [[WP:AN]]; I'll try and get to these soon. [[User:Jnc|Noel]] [[User_talk:Jnc|(talk)]] 18:54, 5 Feb 2005 (UTC)

==Current list==

Older unfinished requests are at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for deletion/Old]].

===February 4===

* [[Gundam Seed Episode 1]] &rarr; [[Cosmic Era episode list]] - I'm not sure whether to list this here or VfD. It was a very small article, since merged into the redirection, but doesn't seem to warrant its own existence as a redirect. [[User:132.205.15.43|132.205.15.43]] 05:50, 4 Feb 2005 (UTC)

** This one has history - need to check to see if it was used to prepare an article, if so cannot delete, will have to archive. [[User:Jnc|Noel]] [[User_talk:Jnc|(talk)]] 13:52, 6 Feb 2005 (UTC)

* [[PHASE-01]] &rarr; [[Cosmic Era episode list]] - I'm not sure whether to list this here or VfD. It was a very small article, since merged into the redirection, but doesn't seem to warrant its own existence as a redirect. From appearances, orignally it was a copyedit of [[Gundam Seed Episode 1]]. [[User:132.205.15.43|132.205.15.43]] 05:56, 4 Feb 2005 (UTC)

** Ditto for this one. [[User:Jnc|Noel]] [[User_talk:Jnc|(talk)]] 15:22, 6 Feb 2005 (UTC)

===February 7===

* [[Stub]] &rarr; [[Wikipedia:Find or fix a stub]]. Self reference as well, and, if deleted, will allow for moving of [[Stub (disambiguation)]]. &mdash; [[User:Itai|Itai]] ([[User talk:Itai|f&t]]) 13:05, 7 Feb 2005 (UTC)

** I'd recomment redirecting [[Stub]] to [[Stub (disambiguation)]]; see [[User:Jnc/Disambiguation]] for my reasoning as to why. [[User:Jnc|Noel]] [[User_talk:Jnc|(talk)]] 14:59, 7 Feb 2005 (UTC)

*** Much better practice would be to delete [[Stub]] and move [[Stub (disambiguation)]] to that title. -- [[User:Netoholic|Netoholic]] [[User talk:Netoholic|@]] 19:11, 2005 Feb 7 (UTC)

*** Why not make it easy to see when someone has linked to what's actually a disambig page? [[User:Jnc|Noel]] [[User_talk:Jnc|(talk)]] 20:10, 7 Feb 2005 (UTC)

** Also, this page has a zillion pages linking to it; some of them undoubtly expect the existing linked meaning. [[User:Jnc|Noel]] [[User_talk:Jnc|(talk)]] 15:02, 7 Feb 2005 (UTC)

*** Yes, I know. Still, [[Wikipedia:Avoid self-references]]. &mdash; [[User:Itai|Itai]] ([[User talk:Itai|f&t]]) 15:12, 7 Feb 2005 (UTC)

*** Sure, but since you're one moving the deletion, you get to organize fixing them! :-) I already did my bit on the ones above... [[User:Jnc|Noel]] [[User_talk:Jnc|(talk)]] 16:59, 7 Feb 2005 (UTC)

**** I need to do this? Whatever happened to the gnomes? <sigh>. Nice job on the first four. I took care of everything I could regarding [[stub]] - of course, I cannot modify text in the Talk: and User: namespaces. &mdash; [[User:Itai|Itai]] ([[User talk:Itai|f&t]]) 18:08, 7 Feb 2005 (UTC)

**** Actually, I think it's generally agreed to be OK to edit User: and Talk: pages to fix links that would otherwise be broken. Certainly, when we were deleting all the redirects from the main namespace to User:, we sure edited a lot of User: and Talk: pages! [[User:Jnc|Noel]] [[User_talk:Jnc|(talk)]] 18:03, 8 Feb 2005 (UTC)

***** Are you sure I won't be lynched if I edit User: and Talk: pages? If I am, do you promise to continue my legacy? (Never leave edit summaries. Mark all edits as minor.) &mdash; [[User:Itai|Itai]] ([[User talk:Itai|f&t]]) 23:02, 8 Feb 2005 (UTC)

** Still has lots of links to it, most presumably being to the old meaning. [[User:Jnc|Noel]] [[User_talk:Jnc|(talk)]] 02:30, 14 Feb 2005 (UTC)

===March 6===

* [[Nelli Kim/Temp]] &rarr; [[Nelli Kim]]. Remnant of a copyvio repair. I'm amazed there isn't a csd case for this. &mdash;[[User:Korath|Korath]] ([[User talk:Korath|Talk]]) 10:48, Mar 6, 2005 (UTC)

** I think these can be deleted right away as continuation of copyvio process, like orphan talk pages can be deleted if the article they are for has been deleted per VfD. If it was listed 7 days in WP:CP and no one objected to the moving of /Temp over article, then we IMHO already have enough consensus for trivialities like this. [[User:Jni|jni]] 12:41, 6 Mar 2005 (UTC)

** [[Wikipedia:Be bold]] and edit CSD to include this case too, and see if it sticks. Personally I think it's a good idea. [[User:Jnc|Noel]] [[User_talk:Jnc|(talk)]] 13:40, 6 Mar 2005 (UTC)

===March 9===

* [[Chewing]] &rarr; [[Mastication]] --[[User:Djanvk|Djanvk]] 03:55, 9 Mar 2005 (UTC)

** This listing is confused. [[Chewing]] is an article, listed to be merged with [Mastication]. So far, so good. However, once the content is merged, we need a redirect at the other one, otherwise someone will just re-create the page. In addition, we need to keep the edit history of the one that was turned into a redirect, for [[Wikipedia:Copyright]] reasons. [[User:Jnc|Noel]] [[User_talk:Jnc|(talk)]] 21:11, 9 Mar 2005 (UTC)

* [[Random page]] &rarr; [[Special:Randompage]] - An especially unpleasant cross-namespace redirect, since it doesn't leave the "Redirect from..." line. See also [[Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/Random page]]. &mdash;[[User:Korath|Korath]] ([[User talk:Korath|Talk]]) 12:06, Mar 9, 2005 (UTC)

**Already left a 'delete'-vote to the VfD page. [[User:Jni|jni]] 12:48, 9 Mar 2005 (UTC)

**I'm curious, why is this 'considered harmful'? The user asks for a random page, and gets exactly that: a random space. It's not really cross-namespace, as special:randompage once more returns to a normal namespace. [[User:Radiant!|Radiant!]] 14:38, Mar 9, 2005 (UTC)

**I agree with Radiant. The user gets what he asks for (something random) and it doesn't really cross namespaces. [[User:Jonathunder|Jonathunder]] 07:03, 2005 Mar 15 (UTC)

** I think the issue with "cross-space redirects" is that we have people who take copies of the database - but only of the main article namespace. So for them, a redirect to Special: wouldn't work. What ''might'' work is to make the redirect to a URL for [[Special:Randompage]], [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Randompage like this], which will work from anywhere. [[User:Jnc|Noel]] [[User_talk:Jnc|(talk)]] 00:02, 16 Mar 2005 (UTC)

*** Blast, I forgot, off-site redirects don't work. So it's [[Special:Randompage]] or nothoing... [[User:Jnc|Noel]] [[User_talk:Jnc|(talk)]] 15:04, 18 Mar 2005 (UTC)

** '''Keep''' this, people who suck down copies of the database wholesale can fix their own problems. [[User:SchmuckyTheCat|SchmuckyTheCat]] 14:44, 9 Apr 2005 (UTC)

*** Since this problem is the reason we get rid of cross-space redirects to Wikipedia (among others), I find your line of reasoning here unpersuasive. If it's a good enough reason to get rid of Wikipedia: redirects, it ought to apply here, too, no? [[User:Jnc|Noel]] [[User_talk:Jnc|(talk)]] 14:54, 9 Apr 2005 (UTC)

===March 12===

* [[Lincolnshire (unneeded)]] &rarr; [[Lincolnshire]]. [[User:RJFJR|RJFJR]] 16:52, Mar 12, 2005 (UTC)

** Sigh, I thought I could just nuke this, but there's history there that may need to be saved. [[User:Jnc|Noel]] [[User_talk:Jnc|(talk)]] 14:34, 20 Mar 2005 (UTC)

===March 20===

* [["welfare capitalism"]] &rarr; [[Welfare capitalism]] - More "quoted" to unquoted redirects. &ndash; [[User:ABCD|AB]][[User talk:ABCD|'''''CD''''']] 19:17, 20 Mar 2005 (UTC)

** The ones that are left have content history, and at least one of them was merged (i.e. the history contains info on the contribution of material used in an article), so it can't be simply ditched; will have to archive, or something. [[User:Jnc|Noel]] [[User_talk:Jnc|(talk)]] 12:34, 26 Mar 2005 (UTC)

**'''Keep''' There is no good reason to delete this. [[User:Burgundavia|Burgundavia]] 17:13, Apr 20, 2005 (UTC)

===March 26===

* [[Truth be Told (Alias episode)]], [[So it Begins (Alias episode)]], [[Parity (Alias episode)]], [[A Broken Heart (Alias episode)]], [[Doppleganger (Alias episode)]], [[Reckoning (Alias episode)]], [[Color Blind (Alias episode)]], [[Time Will Tell (Alias episode)]], [[Mea Culpa (Alias episode)]], [[Spirit (Alias episode)]], [[The Confession (Alias episode)]], [[The Box (Part 1) (Alias episode)]], [[The Box (Part 2) (Alias episode)]], [[The Coup (Alias episode)]], [[Page 47 (Alias episode)]], [[The Prophecy (Alias episode)]], [[Q&A (Alias episode)]], [[Masquerade (Alias episode)]], [[Snowman (Alias episode)]], [[The Solution (Alias episode)]], [[Rendezvous (Alias episode)]], [[Almost 30 Years (Alias episode)]], [[The Enemy Walks In (Alias episode)]], [[Trust Me (Alias episode)]], [[Cipher (Alias episode)]], [[Dead Drop (Alias episode)]], [[The Indicator (Alias episode)]], [[Salvation (Alias episode)]], [[The Counteragent (Alias episode)]], [[Passage Part 1 (Alias episode)]], [[Passage Part 2 (Alias episode)]], [[The Abduction (Alias episode)]], [[A Higher Echelon (Alias episode)]], [[The Getaway (Alias episode)]], [[Phase One (Alias episode)]], [[Double Agent (Alias episode)]], [[A Free Agent (Alias episode)]], [[Firebomb (Alias episode)]], [[A Dark Turn (Alias episode)]], [[Truth Takes Time (Alias episode)]], [[Endgame (Alias episode)]], [[Countdown (Alias episode)]], [[Second Double (Alias episode)]], [[The Telling (Alias episode)]], [[The Two (Alias episode)]], [[Succession (Alias episode)]], [[Reunion (Alias episode)]], [[A Missing Link (Alias episode)]], [[Repercussions (Alias episode)]], [[The Nemesis (Alias episode)]], [[Prelude (Alias episode)]], [[Breaking Point (Alias episode)]], [[Conscious (Alias episode)]], [[Remnants (Alias episode)]], [[Full Disclosure (Alias episode)]], [[Crossings (Alias episode)]], [[After Six (Alias episode)]], [[Blowback (Alias episode)]], [[Facade (Alias episode)]], [[Taken (Alias episode)]], [[The Frame (Alias episode)]], [[Unveiled (Alias episode)]], [[Hourglass (Alias episode)]], [[Blood Ties (Alias episode)]], [[Legacy (Alias episode)]], [[Resurrection (Alias episode)]]. All orphans (or should be); these all redirect to the newly-consolidated [[Alias episodes (Season 1)]], [[Alias episodes (Season 2)]], [[Alias episodes (Season 3)]], and [[Alias episodes (Season 4)]]. Sorry for the massive listing, but I'd hate to make everyone vote in 66 places. :-) [[User:Dcoetzee|Deco]] 02:28, 27 Mar 2005 (UTC)

** Keep all - deleting these would destroy the authorship history of the material, thus violating the GFDL. Sorry. -- [[User:Cyrius|Cyrius]]|[[User talk:Cyrius|&#9998;]] 06:33, 27 Mar 2005 (UTC)

*** Oops, you're right. If only there were a way to merge articles, moving the history of all into the new article. Now I'm concerned that someone seeking the original authors might not be able to find these histories &mdash; maybe a comment or something should be added to the merged pages. [[User:Dcoetzee|Deco]] 20:21, 27 Mar 2005 (UTC)

*** [[Special:Whatlinkshere/Alias episodes (Season 1)]], etc will show them, but of course people won't know there's content history in the redirects unless they look. When the content was merged, the [[Wikipedia:Edit summary|edit summary]] [[Wikipedia:Duplicate articles#How articles should be merged|should have]] indicated that it was a merge, and where from. [[User:Jnc|Noel]] [[User_talk:Jnc|(talk)]] 14:29, 28 Mar 2005 (UTC)

** If we want to get rid of these redirects, the usual thing would be to move them to sub-pages of the article's talk: page, and then link to them from the talk: page. I personally don't have any opinion on whether to keep or ditch them, but if we do get rid of them, that would be the way to do it. [[User:Jnc|Noel]] [[User_talk:Jnc|(talk)]] 14:29, 28 Mar 2005 (UTC)

** Don't understand the motivation for deleting these... fundamental rule of the WWW is not break existing links unless you have to right? [[User:Pcb21|Pcb21|]] [[User_talk:Pcb21|Pete]] 14:57, 31 Mar 2005 (UTC)

** '''Keep''': these make it easier for users to search for the episodes by title. Anyone know what the situation is vis-a-vis including a section specification in a REDIRECT target? --[[User:Phil Boswell|Phil]] | [[User talk:Phil Boswell|Talk]] 13:19, Apr 7, 2005 (UTC)

*** According to [[Meta:Redirect#A redirect to an anchor]], ''This is not possible. ... This feature'' '''''will not''''' ''be implemented in the future''. [[User:Jnc|Noel]] [[User_talk:Jnc|(talk)]] 16:32, 7 Apr 2005 (UTC)

===March 27===

* [[MPEG-4 Version 3]] &rarr; [[MPEG-4 Layer 3]] Delete because the "version 3" page seems to have been created by someone confused about the correct terminology. There really is no such thing as MPEG-4 Version 3, and if there was, it would be something else. [[User:Cat5nap|Cat5nap]] 06:41, 27 Mar 2005 (UTC)

** This may be an error, but Yahoo shows about 1,100 hits for "MPEG-4 Version 3". So maybe we need to turn that into a short article explaining that it's a mistake, and linking to the right place? [[User:Jnc|Noel]] [[User_talk:Jnc|(talk)]] 14:44, 9 Apr 2005 (UTC)

* [[MPEG-4 Layer 3]] &rarr; [[MPEG-4 Part 3]] Delete because the "layer 3" page seems to have been created by someone confused about the correct terminology. There really is no such thing as MPEG-4 Layer 3, although if there was, it might be something in MPEG-4 Part 3. The root of this problem seems to have been because some "parts" of [[MPEG]] standards include "layers" within them. (Most notably, [[MPEG-1]] Part 3 includes a "Layer 3" that is now very widely known as [[MP3]].) Someone got the impression that the "parts" were called "layers", and unfortunately started naming pages accordingly. [[User:Cat5nap|Cat5nap]] 06:51, 27 Mar 2005 (UTC)

===March 31===

* [[Ipod halo effect]] &rarr; [[Ipod]] - Redirects to a non-existent section of article. [[User:Raekwon|rae]] 21:25, 31 Mar 2005 (UTC)

** Section targets don't work in redirects anyway, so the question is "do we keep the redir anyway" (no idea, myself). [[User:Jnc|Noel]] [[User_talk:Jnc|(talk)]] 00:23, 1 Apr 2005 (UTC)

** '''Preserve history'''. There was a stub [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Ipod_halo_effect&oldid=11723499] before it was merged into [[iPod]] [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=IPod&diff=11726138&oldid=11723522] as a section. Then the section was moved to the introduction [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=IPod&diff=next&oldid=11726138] and [[halo effect]] turned into [[gateway drug]]. It is now part of the history section of [[iPod]]. GFDL considerations may make deleting it difficult. And (ignoring capital letter errors) it is a common enough phrase [http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=%22iPod+halo+effect%22] with 7,000 hits. My view is that it (the current redirect and history) should be '''moved''' to [[iPod halo effect]], and the contents of the old stub should be '''merged''' into [[halo effect]]. I don't mind whether the redirect points to [[iPod]] or [[halo effect]], but I think deletion of the history would be wrong. --[[User:Henrygb|Henrygb]] 00:17, 4 Apr 2005 (UTC)

** Well, we have to keep the history for [[Wikipedia:Copyright]] - content from this page was used on a live page. After looking into this, probably the right thing is to do just as Henrygb suggests - keep the page, move it to the correct capitalization, and redirect to [[Halo effect]] (redirecting to [[iPod]] it too diffuse a target - most of that article is not relevant). The other option would be to archive it as a Talk: subpage of [[iPod]], and reference it on [[Talk:iPod]]. Any preferences? [[User:Jnc|Noel]] [[User_talk:Jnc|(talk)]] 14:40, 9 Apr 2005 (UTC)

===April 3===

* [[Jimmy Brown]] &rarr; [[James Brown]]. Jimmy Brown was an Irish terrorist, former head of the [[Irish People's Liberation Organisation]]. Since he is known as Jimmy and not James, it seems more reasonable that the page for Jimmy Brown be deleted. He can then be added to the redirect list along with the [[James Brown (musician)|Godfather of Soul]]. A similar case can be found with [[Jim Brown]], the football player. --[[User:Omphaloscope|Omphaloscope]] 00:44, 3 Apr 2005 (UTC)

** A few of Jim Brown's early football cards list his name as "Jimmy Brown". This looks like it might be a good place for a disambiguation page. [[User:63.173.114.141|63.173.114.141]] 04:39, 3 Apr 2005 (UTC)

** As in, turn [[Jimmy Brown]] into a separate dismabig page, listing just the IPLO guy and the football guy? That would be OK. [[User:Jnc|Noel]] [[User_talk:Jnc|(talk)]] 16:44, 3 Apr 2005 (UTC)

*** Anyone have any suggestions for the name of the page for the IPLO guy? Would [[Jimmy Brown (IPLO)]] be the way to go, or what? [[User:Jnc|Noel]] [[User_talk:Jnc|(talk)]] 00:36, 11 Apr 2005 (UTC)

*** Another possibility is [[Jimmy Brown (Irish nationalist)]]. I assume [[Jimmy Brown (terrorist)]] or [[Jimmy Brown (criminal)]] would be unacceptable, though? [[User:Jnc|Noel]] [[User_talk:Jnc|(talk)]] 01:36, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)

**I say make it into a disambig page. A Google search found all sorts of different "Jimmy Brown"s - from realty companies to baseball players... [http://www.google.com/search?q=%22Jimmy+Brown%22&sourceid=mozilla-search&start=0&start=0&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official ]--[[User:Blackcats|Blackcats]] 00:16, 12 Apr 2005 (UTC)

===April 7===

* [[Copperlite]] &rarr; [[Coprolite]]. The article at copperlite was created by someone who misspelled coprolite (they may not realize the correct word is coprolite). Google finds 3 uses of copperlite as fossilized feces (coprolite), 3,117 other uses of copperlite and 21,700 hits for coprolite. it doesn't look like many people will type copperlite meaning coprolite (I'm just concerned that leaving the redirect lends unwarranted support to this misspelling). [[User:RJFJR|RJFJR]] 03:12, Apr 7, 2005 (UTC)

** I'm dithering about this one. I did a search myself using Yahoo, and found only 347 matched for "copperlite", mostly for a chipset, and also a metallic finish. When I knocked most of these out (using the exclude string "chipset finish DSL 'chip set' cooling neoprene") I was left with about 40 hits, of which only 4 were for the "coprolite" meaning. However, I worry that if we delete this redirect, someone will just re-create the article (not unlikely, it's already happened). So I'd say "keep", to prevent recreation of the erroneous article. [[User:Jnc|Noel]] [[User_talk:Jnc|(talk)]] 14:25, 7 Apr 2005 (UTC)

*'''Deletion redirect templates''' ([[Template:VfD-1 E16 km2]] thru [[Template:VfD-Über]]) - All of these templates are redirects to the appropriate /VfD/ page, and using templates for this purpose is deprecated. Yet they clutter up about 8% of the Template namespace. If nobody objects, I propse using a bot to delete the lot of them. (Note that alphabetically, this does ''not'' include [[Template:VfD]] and [[Template:VfD bottom]] and similar, that are actually in use; plainly those should not be deleted). [[User:Radiant!| ]][[User_talk:Radiant!|Radiant]][[meta:mergist|_*]] 09:40, Apr 7, 2005 (UTC)

**See the ongoing project at [[Wikipedia:VfD votes in the Template namespace]]. [[User:Uncle G|Uncle G]] 10:02, 2005 Apr 7 (UTC)

***What exactly does that ongoing project do, other than listing the lot of them? Do you mean that the redirects should all be kept for historical reasons? Or that people are already busy deleting them? Or something? [[User:Radiant!| ]][[User_talk:Radiant!|Radiant]][[meta:mergist|_*]] 10:19, Apr 7, 2005 (UTC)

****Many of the discussions are still in the templates and not yet moved to Vfd subpages. [[User:Susvolans|Susvolans]] [[User talk:Susvolans|(pigs can fly)]] 11:54, 7 Apr 2005 (UTC)

** Delete all, also MediaWiki:Vfd- redirects. Correct the links from the [[Wikipedia:Archived delete debates]] subpages. [[User:Susvolans|Susvolans]] [[User talk:Susvolans|(pigs can fly)]] 11:50, 7 Apr 2005 (UTC)

** See also [[Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Archive3#Wikipedia:VfD votes in the Template namespace]]; and also [[Wikipedia:Redirects for deletion/Old#January 4]] for discussion of the Mediawiki: redirects. Nobody opposed deleting the Mediawiki redirects, but there are so many it's infeasible to do by hand - it would take a bot to do it, and a bot with delete power means it has to be one run by an admin. Volunteers? I expect the bot could also move the discussion pages from Template: to VfD subpages, and delete the redirects left behind in Template:. Any such pages where there is a clash (i.e. a sub-page of that name already exists) probably ought to be moved by hand. [[User:Jnc|Noel]] [[User_talk:Jnc|(talk)]] 14:37, 7 Apr 2005 (UTC)

*** Added to [[Wikipedia:Bot requests]]. [[User:Radiant!| ]][[User_talk:Radiant!|Radiant]][[meta:mergist|_*]] 10:13, Apr 8, 2005 (UTC)

===April 9===

* [[Destructive cult]] &rarr; [[List of purported cults]] - '''Delete''' redirect. Title is inherently POV. Just a few days ago we completed the deletion of another POV redirect to this article ([[List of deadly cults]]) for same reasons. Thanks. --[[User:Zappaz|Zappaz]] 02:23, 9 Apr 2005 (UTC)

** '''keep''' redirects aren't POV, pointing them to the correct article aids NPOV. [[User:SchmuckyTheCat|SchmuckyTheCat]] 03:22, 9 Apr 2005 (UTC)

**'''delete'''. This redirect needs to be deleted for the same reasons the redirect [[List of deadly cults]] was deleted. The list contains groups that are most definitively not destructive. Blatant POV. [[User:Jossifresco|&asymp; jossi &asymp;]] 15:15, Apr 9, 2005 (UTC)

** A bunch of things [[Special:Whatlinkshere/Destructive cult|link here]]. It can't be removed until those links are fixed to point to the destination. [[User:Jnc|Noel]] [[User_talk:Jnc|(talk)]] 00:21, 16 Apr 2005 (UTC)

===April 10===

* [[Prussian Holocaust]] - POV term of very limited usage. A significant parst of google hits is from several wikipedia's artices and mushroomed mirrors. It is proposed to discuss this issue at the VfD page [[Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/Prussian Holocaust]] for broader participation. [[User:Mikkalai|Mikkalai]] 23:05, 10 Apr 2005 (UTC)

** This is currently the subject of a [[Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/Prussian Holocaust|VfD debate]] - should this listing be deleted, in favour of the one there? [[User:Jnc|Noel]] [[User_talk:Jnc|(talk)]] 01:12, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)

** I have closed the VfD. The result was '''no consensus'''. This article will not be deleted as a result of the VfD discussion. I suggest that the RFD also be closed (I've left the RFD tag there for now). --[[User:Tony Sidaway|Tony Sidaway]]|[[User talk:Tony Sidaway|Talk]] 14:54, 24 Apr 2005 (UTC)

'''Delete.''' The result of VfD-debate was 12 delete (as redirect or article), 5 keep, 2 no vote. Some of the arguments the "Keep"-votes were based on turned out to be wrong. How big the majority has to be? [[User:Jesusfreund|Jesusfreund]] 20:11, 24 Apr 2005 (UTC)

:The redirect does no harm and might conceivably be useful. Nobody managed to create a consensus contradicting this, or present convincing arguments. The redirect stays. &mdash; [[User:Helpful_Dave|''Helpful Dave'']] 22:03, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC)

*'''Keep'''. I closed the deletion process and determined that there was '''no consensus''' to delete. My criterion is that something clearly over 80% is definitely deletable, over 75% I'm looking hard at individual votes, 75% or less I usually determine to be '''no consensus'''. And it does not seem right to me that a redirect should be subject to two deletion processes, but if we're going to rerun I will exert my vote on principle to keep, because that seemed to me to to be the result of the earlier process and I think this should be reflected somehow in the votes on this much more exclusive venue. --[[User:Tony Sidaway|Tony Sidaway]]|[[User talk:Tony Sidaway|Talk]] 22:19, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC)

'''Weakish keep'''. Not only does this not seem to me to fit any of the qualifications or precedents for deleting a redirect, but it could be useful under reason not to delete #2 (preventing accidental article duplication). The term is used in reality (well, a little bit) and is mentioned in the article redirected to (well, a little bit). [[User:Nickptar|Nickptar]] 22:16, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[[User:Helpful Dave]]'s opinion I find obnoxious (manipulating Wikipedia for the purposes of any political propaganda is harmful, and the harm is multiplied x100 when the political ends the propogands serves are neo-nazi ones: were there encyclopedic value to the term there would be a case for an NPOV article documenting the term's usage would have value, but since there is no such value this point is moot, a redirect is in any case POV), but I think it is out of order to use this as a second referendum. Since the page was not a rediect at the time of any votes, I propose firstly '''keep''' and that we interpret the keep votes as indicating a brief article summarising the facts along the lines of ''It appears that some editors with sympathies for neonazi causes wish the term '''Prussian Holocaust''' to be regarded as a synonym for '''Evacuation of East Prussia''', although at the time of writing this term is not used outside of Wikipedia. This motives of these editors appear to be to ground a moral equivalency argument between this event and the [[Shoah]], a strategy used elsewhere such as with [[Bombing of Dresden in World War II]]''. Note that most of the keep votes in the VfD process were ambiguous, and a plain redirect would be inconsistent with neutrality. In three months or so, we can start the VfD process again, hopefully with a more useful-idiot-proof formlation of the case for deletion. --- [[User:Chalst|Charles Stewart]] 08:17, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)

:::Please stop ''manipulating Wikipedia for the purposes of'' your anti neo-nazi ''propaganda.'' Perhaps you should review: [[Wikipedia:Neutral point of view]].--[[User:Chammy Koala|Chammy Koala]] 11:33, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)

*Keep, and I agree strongly w Chammy Koala. <big>'''''[[User:Sam Spade|Sam Spade]]'''''</big> 11:49, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)

*Keep. The worh "holocaust" is abused in numerous other cases; Jews did not happen to put a trademark upon it, and I am sure over time more "microholocausts" will appear. The fact that the term is someone's propaganda effort it irelevant. Want it or not, neonazis are visible, and their terminology must be known. (BTW, I don't know whether the "PH" is nenonazi's invention.) [[User:Mikkalai|Mikkalai]] 17:37, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)

===April 11===

* [[Saint-Raymond]] &rarr; [[Saint-Raymond, Quebec]]

* [[Saint-Raymond de Portneuf]] &rarr; [[Saint-Raymond, Quebec]]

* [[Saint-Raymond-de-Portneuf]] &rarr; [[Saint-Raymond, Quebec]]

* [[St-Raymond]] &rarr; [[Saint-Raymond, Quebec]]

* [[St-Raymond de Portneuf]] &rarr; [[Saint-Raymond, Quebec]]

* [[St-Raymond-de-Portneuf]] &rarr; [[Saint-Raymond, Quebec]]

* These cases are already covered by more general all-lowercase redirects.[[User:StRay|StRay]] 23:40, 11 Apr 2005 (UTC) Oh and there is no article history in any of them. [[User:StRay|StRay]] 23:46, 11 Apr 2005 (UTC)

** '''Keep''' - they do not harm and are useful. - [[User:SimonP|SimonP]] 00:02, Apr 12, 2005 (UTC)

*** Well they're useless since I created equivalent and more general lowercase redirects, but yeah, they're harmless... [[User:StRay|StRay]] 00:22, 12 Apr 2005 (UTC)

** '''Keep''' - there should be more such redirects for titles which are commonly misspelled or where there are several different spellings and such. (Unless of course they conflict with some other article.) A good thing to work on if you're bored. --[[User:Blackcats|Blackcats]] 00:07, 12 Apr 2005 (UTC)

** Are there other places named "St-Raymond"? If so, [[Saint-Raymond]] ought to be turned into a disambig, and [[St-Raymond]] should point to it. The other 4 are probably safe as redirects to the one in Quebec. [[User:Jnc|Noel]] [[User_talk:Jnc|(talk)]] 01:18, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)

* [[Warschau]] -> [[Warsaw]]. This is the English Wikipedia, we don't need a redirect to every place in the world from evey language's version of the name. Besides, Warschau is being used in some weird German nationalist campaign to get the Warsaw article renamed to Warschau on the specious grounds that it's a German city. [[User:RickK|Rick]][[User talk:RickK|K]] 01:08, Apr 12, 2005 (UTC)

** '''Keep''' - it doesn't hurt and IMHO the more redirs we have the better. [[User:Halibutt|Halibu]][[User talk:Halibutt|tt]] 07:19, Apr 12, 2005 (UTC)

***Halibutt is the User who created the redirect. So, then, are you going to create redirects for the spelling of Warsaw in every other language in the world, or are you limiting your redirect creation to the German nationlist version? And have you created a redirect to "Warsaw" and "Warszawa" in the German language Wikipedia? [[User:RickK|Rick]][[User talk:RickK|K]] 19:42, Apr 12, 2005 (UTC)

** '''Keep'''. Basically harmless and potentionally useful for German speakers. As for POV campaign, it is easy to make sure this ''stays'' as a redirect, instead of being expanded. I wouldn't mind seeing more redirects derived from [[List of European cities with alternative names]]. [[User:Jni|jni]] 05:56, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)

** We do have some redirects from city names in foreign languages (e.g. [[Beyrouth]] -> [[Beirut]]), but in general we don't do them unless they are forms that have had (at some point, at least) some amount of use in English-language writing. I don't think [[Warschau]] passes this test - I've never seen it referred to as anything except "Warsaw" in English. [[User:Jnc|Noel]] [[User_talk:Jnc|(talk)]] 01:18, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)

*** According to the discussion referenced at [[/Precedents#Should redirects from city names in other languages be kept?]], redirects from the name in the native language(s) of the city are also OK. [[User:Jnc|Noel]] [[User_talk:Jnc|(talk)]] 01:33, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)

**'''Keep.'''If you look up warschau on google there are 74,000 English pages. Can't see a good reason not to keep it. It's only a redirect.--[[User:Chammy Koala|Chammy Koala]] 16:06, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)

** '''Delete''', POV-pushing. A redirect from ''[[Warszawa]]'' is proper, since the native language of the city is Polish. &mdash;[[User:Korath|Korath]] ([[User talk:Korath|Talk]]) 17:04, Apr 14, 2005 (UTC)

**'''Keep'''. Absolutely no reason to delete this potentially useful redirect. It is no more POV-pushing than [[Warszawa]]. &mdash; [[User:Helpful_Dave|''Helpful Dave'']] 18:23, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)

** '''Keep'''. I'm not a German nationalist and I found this vote by trying to reach [[Warsaw]] from [[Warschau]], having just seen ''[[The Pianist (memoir)|The Pianist]]''. Call me stupid for not remembering the "proper" English name if you must. [[User:JRM|JRM]] 19:08, 2005 Apr 17 (UTC)

===April 12===

* [[Trigraph (computing)]] -> [[C_trigraph]]. Trigraphs are particular to C. I repointed existing pages to the new article; the old page is an orphan. [[User:Akihabara|Akihabara]] 13:42, 12 Apr 2005 (UTC)

* [[C_Trigraph]] -> [[C_trigraph]]. Typo. I repointed existing pages to the new article, so the old page is an orphan. [[User:Akihabara|Akihabara]] 13:42, 12 Apr 2005 (UTC)

** Trigraphs are not particular to C, neither are computer trigraphs, neither is the topic of the page, termed a "trigraph sequence", which also occurs in SQL. I fear something is not quite right here. [[User:Aliter|Aliter]] 16:46, 12 Apr 2005 (UTC)

*** C trigraphs (the subject of the new page) are particular to the C family of languages, which is how the link from the disambiguation [[Trigraph]] page is labelled. Any other meanings of trigraphs should get new pages linked from the Trigraph disambiguation page. I see little point in keeping the redirects. [[User:Akihabara|Akihabara]] 23:05, 12 Apr 2005 (UTC)

**** I mixed something up there. I don't think it's supposed to be SQL, but I can't recall what the other use for that type of trigraphs is. It does simplify the discussion, though. In C, this type of trigraph is called a "trigraph sequence", not a "C trigraph". Apparently the link from the disambigation page is less than correct. Creating a redirect from C trigraph to trigraph sequence seems like a good idea, though. Anyway, let's see which pages we can give content rather than just redirects. [[User:Aliter|Aliter]] 21:44, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)

** '''Keep'''. Helps prevent accidental re-creation, causes no harm. [[User:Jni|jni]] 05:59, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)

===April 13===

* [[Wikipedia:Don't be a dick]]->[[Meta:Don't be a dick]]

* [[WP:DICK]] -> [[m:Don't be a dick]]

** These used to be a "policy" page and its redirects, but the page was [[Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/Wikipedia:Don't be a dick|put on VFD]] and the consensus was to delete or move to meta. One of the main reasons was that we don't want users to use it as a personal attack veiled in policy, i.e. [[Wikipedia:don't be a dick|don't be a dick]]. The page is gone to meta, but judging by [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Whatlinkshere&target=Wikipedia%3ADon%27t_be_a_dick] and [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Whatlinkshere&target=WP%3ADICK], redirects are serving the same function. So I think they should be gone too. [[User:Zocky|Zocky]] 14:32, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)

** '''Keep'''. As you demonstrate above, it's trivial to link to the meta page instead, and thus nothing is to be gained by deleting the redirect. [[User:Snowspinner|Snowspinner]] 12:42, Apr 15, 2005 (UTC)

*** Anybody can link anything from anywhere, but only internal links inside Wikipedia show in the default color. Wikipedia is Wikipedia and Meta is Meta. Not all stuff that is appropriate for Meta is appropriate for Wikipedia (hence the "move to meta" kind of votes on VfD). [[User:Zocky|Zocky]] 20:42, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)

** '''Keep''' This one seems useful, and as they say, redirects are cheap. -- [[User:Ponder|Ponder]] 13:00, 2005 Apr 15 (UTC)

** I was going to say I was worried we'd break a bunch of links to it, but very few seem to be left - someone must have fixed them all. [[User:Jnc|Noel]] [[User_talk:Jnc|(talk)]] 14:05, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)

** '''Keep'''. Not only it has been referenced in at least one recent RfC, it also contains the whole history of the page now at meta. It's not a simple redirect. As for using as a personal attack, removing the redirects wouldn't change a bit &mdash; people would just use the direct link to meta. --[[User:CesarB|cesarb]] 21:50, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)

**'''Keep'''. [[User:BlankVerse|<font color=green>''Blank''</font><font color=#F88017>''Verse''</font>]]<font color=#2554C7> </font>[[User talk:BlankVerse|<font color=#F660AB>&empty;</font> ]] 22:20, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)

**'''Extreme keep''', and remember kids, don't be a [[WP:DICK]]. &mdash;[[user:Radman1|'''RaD Man''']] ([[User_talk:Radman1|''talk'']]) 09:02, 16 Apr 2005 (UTC)

**'''Keep''' - these types of redirects should be an automatic keep. - [[User:Pioneer-12|Pioneer-12]] 06:09, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)

* [[Moz firefox]] &#8594; [[Mozilla Firefox]] -- Delete because no one will ever use this weird name. [[User:Minghong|minghong]] 16:02, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)

**# We don't know whether or not anyone will use it (and it's not that weird &mdash an abbreviation of 'Mozilla' and a missing capital).

**# It's not doing any harm. Why are you so against it? [[User:Mel Etitis|Mel Etitis]] ([[User talk:Mel Etitis|<font color="green">&Mu;&epsilon;&lambda; &Epsilon;&tau;&eta;&tau;&eta;&sigmaf;</font>)]] 11:56, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)

** '''Keep.''' Some people might not know how Mozilla is spelt, or are used to saying/writing moz.--[[User:Chammy Koala|Chammy Koala]] 16:06, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)

** If one use the short form, then he should write "Moz Fx". "Moz firefox" is just weird. The letter casing is wrong, it should be "Firefox", not "firefox" or "FireFox". Too many things wrong here... --[[User:Minghong|minghong]] 18:38, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)

** '''Keep.''' Some people might not know (or are too lazy) to capitalise the F in firefox, and the M in Moz has to be capitalised anyway. If you are so fussy about all these capitalisation combinations, make a redirect for all such combinations??? (and redirects for "Moz Fx" combinations also) [[User:secfan|sec]][[User_talk:secfan|fan]] 11:05, Apr 22, 2005 (UTC)

===April 14===

* [[George Grey (British Politician)]] and [[George Grey (British politician)]]. Before we had a naming convention for baronets, the former page (or was it the latter?) held the article presently at [[Sir George Grey, 2nd Baronet]]. There's no way anyone will ever look for Grey in such a manner, and no pages link to either of these redirects anymore. [[User:Mackensen|Mackensen]] [[User_talk:Mackensen|(talk)]] 01:43, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)

** '''Keep''' they have a long history and it is never a good idea to break links without good reason. - [[User:SimonP|SimonP]] 03:46, Apr 14, 2005 (UTC)

***I simply regard this as good housekeeping. There's no reason ''for'' these links to exist, and I doubt seriously we'll break anything in the process. Certainly, there's no reason for both of them to exist. [[User:Mackensen|Mackensen]] [[User_talk:Mackensen|(talk)]] 01:23, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)

**'''Keep''' I see no good reason to delete this. [[User:Burgundavia|Burgundavia]] 17:11, Apr 20, 2005 (UTC)

===April 16===

* [[William , 1st Viscount Slim of Yarralumla and Bishopston Slim]] &#8594; [[William Slim, 1st Viscount Slim]] -- Delete because it is very unlikely that anyone will ever type in this redirect, it is unlikely that any page will ever link there, and in short, nobody will ever know it exists (unless you check What Links Here). [[User:Ugen64|ugen]][[User_talk:Ugen64|<small>64</small>]] 05:26, 16 Apr 2005 (UTC)

**'''Delete'''. Hello Ugen, good to see you about. [[User:Mackensen|Mackensen]] [[User_talk:Mackensen|(talk)]] 00:09, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)

**'''Keep''' There is no harm in this. [[User:Burgundavia|Burgundavia]] 17:18, Apr 20, 2005 (UTC)

**'''Delete''' - what ugen said. - [[User:Pioneer-12|Pioneer-12]] 06:08, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)

===April 17===

* [[Why people use Wikipedia]] &rarr; [[Wikipedia:Why people use Wikipedia]]. Created by a move out of the main namespace. &mdash;[[User:Korath|Korath]] ([[User talk:Korath|Talk]]) 15:54, Apr 17, 2005 (UTC)

** I see the point but there's lots of these (indeed, the common shortcuts like [[WP:WIN]] qualify). Are they all to be deprecated? [[User:Radiant!|R]][[User_talk:Radiant!|adiant]][[meta:mergist|_*]] 13:02, Apr 22, 2005 (UTC)

** I think the concept is that we're trying to make life easier for someone taking a copy of the article database, by getting rid of redirects to other namespaces. The WP:* shortcuts are a bit of a special case, because one can easily filter them all out. I suppose the same could be said of all redirects to Wikipedia: namespace, though... Still, I seem to recall that getting rid of redirects to Wikipedia: is still current policy, though. [[User:Jnc|Noel]] [[User_talk:Jnc|(talk)]] 19:35, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)

* [[XLR-11 (rocket engine)]] &rarr; [[XLR-11]]. Created by removing an unnecessary disambiguation title. All the links to the article have already been fixed. [[User:Triddle|Triddle]] 22:27, 17 Apr 2005 (UTC)

**Keep, nothing harmed by keeping this. [[User:Burgundavia|Burgundavia]] 17:07, Apr 20, 2005 (UTC)

**'''Keep''' - the redirect name actually adds clarification. - [[User:Pioneer-12|Pioneer-12]] 06:07, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)

===April 18===

* [[He (pronoun)]] &rarr; [[Pronoun]]. Orphaned it a month ago while fixing up a chain of multiple redirects. [[User:Gmaxwell|Gmaxwell]] 03:50, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)

* [[Recent changes]] &rarr; [[Wikipedia:Recent Changes]]

* [[Recent Changes]] &rarr; [[Wikipedia:Recent Changes]]

* Self-references. Today some anon redirected one of them to [[Special:Recentchanges]], without bothering to update the another. I think it is time to get rid of this old cruft. [[User:Jni|jni]] 06:05, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)

* [[Peoples Republic of China/Economy]] &rarr; [[Economy of the People's Republic of China]], orphan sub-page was already redirecting to the wrong page. [[User:SchmuckyTheCat|SchmuckyTheCat]] 20:01, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)

** '''Keep''' a harmless redirect. [[User:Burgundavia|Burgundavia]] 17:21, Apr 20, 2005 (UTC)

** These country [[Wikipedia:Subpage|subpages]] are leftovers from the old organization of topics in Wikipedia, and current policy (which I do not favour, merely follow - I'd be happy to see someone work to get it changed) is to keep them. [[User:Jnc|Noel]] [[User_talk:Jnc|(talk)]] 19:16, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)

** '''Keep''' - useful redirects. - [[User:Pioneer-12|Pioneer-12]] 06:05, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)

===April 20===

* [[Devil Gates]] &rarr; [[Bill Gates]]. Offensive and POV, though I happen to agree with it. &mdash;[[User:Korath|Korath]] ([[User talk:Korath|Talk]]) 03:08, Apr 20, 2005 (UTC)

**'''Delete''' POV [[User talk:Vikreykja|&#8594;]]''[[User:Vikreykja|Vik&nbsp;Reykja]]'' 08:12, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)

**'''Delete''' POV, and not all that common an appellation. [[User:Firebug|Firebug]] 18:42, 21 Apr 2005 (UTC)

**'''Delete''' POV. [[User:Linuxbeak|Linuxbeak]] 22:48, Apr 22, 2005 (UTC)

**'''Delete''' - no sane person is going to search for this in an encyclopedia. - [[User:Pioneer-12|Pioneer-12]] 06:06, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)

* [[Baron Dunn]]. The original content of the page has been moved to [[Dunn Baronets]], where it belongs. The redirect was created by the move. The title '''Baron Dunn''' should not link to '''Dunn Baronets.''' That would be factually incorrect. There are no hereditary barons named Dunn. The only life baron named Dunn is female and is thus a baroness. No articles link here. No articles will ever link here. No article with any content could ''ever'' exist here. No external sites could possibly link here. No one will ever look for something called "Baron Dunn." This article should never have existed under this name ever, for any reason. [[User:Mackensen|Mackensen]] [[User_talk:Mackensen|(talk)]] 16:55, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)

===April 21===

* [[St. Hilda's college]] &rarr; [[St. Hilda's College]] - I've tidied the St. Hilda's pages; this redirect differs from the correct page only in the capitalisation of "college", and no pages point to it any longer. [[User:Alcedo|Alcedo]] 05:19, 21 Apr 2005 (UTC)

** '''Keep''', common variant in capitalization, no harm in the redir. [[User:Radiant!|R]][[User_talk:Radiant!|adiant]][[meta:mergist|_*]] 13:06, Apr 22, 2005 (UTC)

* [[Request Reversion of 9.Qc2??]] &rarr [[Wikipedia:Sandbox/Chess/Request Reversion of 9.Qc2??]] - Article originated in main article space, but it is a comment about the Sandbox Chess game, so I moved it there. Resulting redirect needs to go away. Thanks! [[User:FreplySpang|FreplySpang]] [[User talk:FreplySpang|(talk)]] 23:47, 21 Apr 2005 (UTC)

** '''Delete'''. Yeah, the new name suffices, the original one doesn't need to be on the main article space, I think the original creator would be inclined to agree as well. -- [[User:Natalinasmpf|Natalinasmpf]] 23:52, 21 Apr 2005 (UTC)

** '''Delete''' I don't think this sub-sub-article should have been created in the first place. The content should be merged into a talk page for the chess game. - [[User:Pioneer-12|Pioneer-12]] 06:25, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)

===April 22===

* [[Education, education, education]] &rarr; [[Tony Blair]] -- '''Delete''' I assume this was done to help Tony Blair, who probably doesn't need it. [[User:UDoN't!wAn*|UDoN't!wAn*]] 22:44, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)

**''NOTE - This was initially posted incorrectly on [[WP:VFD]] after the nominator blanked the redirect. I have moved it here.'' [[User:LevelCheck|LevelCheck]] 22:56, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)

***''ALSO NOTE - It was the first time I was vfd ing so I appreciate the help, I didn't want to blank anything, I just wanted to report it and change it within the rules'' [[User:UDoN't!wAn*|UDoN't!wAn*]] 23:03, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)

****''No problem. I reworded my original statement because I realized it came too close to [[WP:BITE]].'' [[User:LevelCheck|LevelCheck]] 23:08, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)

** '''Delete.''' Wikipedia is not a place to garner votes. If a template by the Liberal Democrats was deleted, then this redirect should be deleted, too. [[User:Zscout370|Zscout370]] 01:13, 23 Apr 2005 (UTC)

**This has already been discussed. &mdash; [[User:Helpful_Dave|''Helpful Dave'']] 22:10, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC)

===April 23===

* [[False hellebore]] -> [[Indian poke]] - double redirect since I have moved [[Indian poke]] to [[Green false hellebore]] - #redirect is inappropriate, because it causes a plant genus to redirect to a single species (when I created it, I wasn't aware that ''false hellebore'' was the correct vernacular name of the genus, not simply ''hellebore'') [[User:Circeus|Circeus]] 16:35, Apr 23, 2005 (UTC)

** Gone --[[User:Henrygb|Henrygb]] 01:54, 24 Apr 2005 (UTC)

===April 24===

* [[Low-budget freeway]] &rarr; [[RIRO expressway]] - the former is a neologism, and the latter isn't much better (but a move to RIRO or right-in-right-out will fix that). --[[User:SPUI|SPUI]] ([[User talk:SPUI|talk]]) 01:10, 24 Apr 2005 (UTC)

===April 25===

* [[Matrixism]] &rarr; [[The Matrix]] or [[New religious movement]] --As per RfC, references to the alleged [[New religious movement]] "Matrixism" have been deemed non-encyclopedic and removed from [[The Matrix]] (see: [[Talk:The Matrix#RfC]]). [[Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/Matrixism|Original VfD]]. Most "Matrixism" references in Wikipedia were originally, and repeatedly, added by linkspamming vandals. Keeping [[Matrixism]] as a redirect invites the attention of said vandals. Non-encyclopedic, probable hoax. One person setting up a website does not warrant recognition in Wikipedia. Obscure. [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 06:12, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)

**'''Keep''' as a redirect to [[New religious movement]] or [[New religious movement#Fiction-based NRMs]], include appropriate reference to Matrixism there. The Matrixism faith currently claims over 500 followers according to [http://www.geocities.com/matrixism2069/faq.html their FAQ]. May not be sufficiently significant to warrant its own article, nor an appropriate addition to [[the Matrix]] article, but it's a useful example of a Fiction-based New Religious Movement (especially one in its early development). Although it could be a hoax, there's currently insufficient evidence either way, therefore removing references to it on that basis constitutes religious discrimination and a violation of Wikipedia's NPOV. (This vote originally posted [[Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/Matrixism (2nd nomination)]], see for further discussion.) [[User:KickAir8P~|KickAir8P~]] 01:16, 2005 Apr 25 (UTC)

***If there's "insufficient evidence either way" about whether a purported religion even exists or not, the purported religion is not notable enough to warrant mention in Wikipedia--it is unencyclopedic. [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 06:14, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)

****There is ''not'' "insufficient evidence" of the ''existence'' of Matrixism - the [http://www.geocities.com/matrixism2069/ observable fact of at least one declared adherant] shows it exists. There's insufficient evidence as to whether or not it's a hoax, and all of that's negative data (specifically, that there's nothing indicating its existence but the website and a number of posts on various boards from a few IP addresses) - I haven't seen one piece of affirmative information indicating it's a hoax (and I've looked), not even from any of those voting for deletion on that basis. Without affirmative data, any hoax assertion against a religion (even if it's a [[New religious movement|NRM]]) is POV. [[User:KickAir8P~|KickAir8P~]] 15:45, 2005 Apr 25 (UTC)

*****It it's a hoax, then it's a nonexistent religion masquerading as an actual religion. This is what I meant. Obviously, it exists as either a hoax or a religion, but there's insufficient evidence that it exists ''as a religion''. [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 17:01, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)

******The only evidence for the existence of ''any'' religion is people who stand up and say "This I believe" - ''everything'' else that can be considered evidence derives from that. The people who believe in Matrixism have done this on a website that's available for any Wikipedian to verify. That they've done so anonymously is no bar to the expression of their faith. Although this may be a hoax perpetrated by one person who's lying about his belief in Matrixism and is falsely claiming 500+ converts, without affirmative evidence of that the assertion that Matrixism ''is'' a hoax is POV. To say something like "Critics claim Matrixism is a hoax because _____" is NPOV, but that means including a reference to Matrixism in an appropriate article like [[New religious movement]], which means this should be redirected there instead of deleted. [[User:KickAir8P~|KickAir8P~]] 20:15, 2005 Apr 25 (UTC)

*******Actually, if there are some 500 "Matrixists", you would expect far, far more widespread evidence of its existence from blogs, forum postings, etc. All the evidence that *does* exist could have easily been created by one or two people. Wicca is mentioned on thousands if not millions of independent websites by different practitioners, the Branch Davidians lived in an independently observable compound, and LeVeyan Satanism has a body of published literature. Matrixism has...one Geocities website, a series of forum postings, and a Wikipedia linkspamming campaign perpetuated by remarkably one and the same range of dialup IP addresses. [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 20:39, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)

********That's all true. It's also all negative evidence. Does anybody have affirmative evidence? If not, the assertion that Matrixism ''is'' a hoax is POV. If so, then this redirect should point at [[Hoax]], a reference to Matrixism should be added to one of the sections, a brief blurb on the reason should be included in the edit summary, details of the evidence should be included on the talk page, and this redirect ''still'' shouldn't be deleted. [[User:KickAir8P~|KickAir8P~]] 01:16, 2005 Apr 26 (UTC)

*********Matrixism isn't a notable hoax, it isn't a notable religion, and it isn't a notable ''anything''. &mdash; '''[[User:Philwelch|Phil]]''' ''[[User_talk:Philwelch|Welch]]'' 08:17, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC)

****Also, "unencyclopedic" is not an absolute - a fiction-based New Religious Movement with between one and a bit over five hundred adherents may not warrent it's own article, but a reference to it can be encyclopedic in the proper context, such as an example in [[New religious movement#Fiction-based NRMs]]. [[User:KickAir8P~|KickAir8P~]] 15:45, 2005 Apr 25 (UTC)

*****Except such a reference, in order to be NPOV and factual, would have to have qualifiers indicating that there's no evidence whether or not it's a real religion or not, which would make it sort of a useless example. [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 17:01, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)

******The [[http://www.geocities.com/matrixism2069/ website]] is evidence of it's existence, the lack of other evidence can be presented to maintain NPOV. This doesn't hurt it as an example of a [[New religious movement]], that's a common criticism of NRM's. [[User:KickAir8P~|KickAir8P~]] 20:15, 2005 Apr 25 (UTC)

*******Until we can be reasonably certain that it's an actual religion, it's useless. Any point you may want to make about Matrixism showing a trend of fiction-inspired new religious movements falls apart if we aren't certain whether it actually is a religious movement. [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 20:39, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)

********You're setting the bar unreasonably high for a NRM - adherants of minority non-traditional religions have a vested interest in hiding their identities to avoid persecution and ridicule, making verification difficult - and that lack of high-level verification can be noted to maintain NPOV. And I wasn't trying to establish a trend, I don't think there is one. In [[New religious movement#Fiction-based NRMs]] I indicated three unrelated examples of a rare-but-notable (IMHO) subset of New religious movements. [[User:KickAir8P~|KickAir8P~]] 01:16, 2005 Apr 26 (UTC)

*********Nonsense. There are plenty of new religious represented on Wikipedia. Of course, these are only the new religious movements we know to exist. &mdash; '''[[User:Philwelch|Phil]]''' ''[[User_talk:Philwelch|Welch]]'' 01:51, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC)

**'''Delete''' per vfd (which really ''was'' the proper place to bring it back to after the merge was rejected). &mdash;[[User:Korath|Korath]] ([[User talk:Korath|Talk]]) 12:03, Apr 25, 2005 (UTC)

*** I wasn't sure - there are two "Delete and Redirect" votes [[Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/Matrixism (2nd nomination)|there]], both of which qualify as "Keep" since the article now ''is'' a redirect. Moving it here seemed to be the wiki-appropriate way to clear up the confusion. [[User:KickAir8P~|KickAir8P~]] 15:45, 2005 Apr 25 (UTC)

**'''Delete'''. Nonsense, not a real religion, not notable. [[User:RickK|Rick]][[User talk:RickK|K]] 04:14, Apr 26, 2005 (UTC)

***This makes three votes for "delete", counting the original listing as a vote, opposed to one "keep" vote. &mdash; '''[[User:Philwelch|Phil]]''' ''[[User_talk:Philwelch|Welch]]'' 05:52, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)

**'''Keep''' - no harm. If someone looks up "Matrixism", they'll wind up at "The Matrix". Makes sense to me. - [[User:Pioneer-12|Pioneer-12]] 06:16, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)

***If you've checked the edit histories of [[The Matrix]], [[List of religions]], and [[New religious movement]], you'd see that it invites linkspamming vandals. They use the redirect as rationale for linkspamming these articles. In the interest of stopping vandalism, deletion is the best option--"Matrixism" doesn't refer to anything notable and reported in the Wikipedia. &mdash; '''[[User:Philwelch|Phil]]''' ''[[User_talk:Philwelch|Welch]]'' 06:28, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)

===April 26===

* [[Deletionism]] ---> [[m:Deletionism]]. It doesn't work, and a redirect about a WP term shouldn't appear in the main namespace. [[User:Meelar|Meelar]] [[User talk:Meelar|(talk)]] 00:55, Apr 26, 2005 (UTC)

**'''Keep.''' It works. It just doesn't automatically work. All redirect links to meta currently have the same problem. This should be fixed in the next software update. And I don't see why we shouldn't mention wiki terms in the main namespace. This is done all the time. See [[stub]] for example. If we didn't include links to wiki terms in the main namespace then if would be pretty hard to find out the maining of any wiki terms! This is currently a redirect, but could always be turned into a disambiguation page if another usage of "Deletionism" exists. - [[User:Pioneer-12|Pioneer-12]] 01:16, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC)

***Re. "This should be fixed in the next software update", I don't believe this is the case. Interwiki redirects were purposely disabled by the developers as an anti-vandalsim measure. [[User:TacoDeposit|Taco Deposit]] | [[User_talk:TacoDeposit|Talk-o to Taco]] 16:31, Apr 26, 2005 (UTC)

*** Actually, [[stub]] was listed [[#February 7|above]] for deletion, and would be gone by now except that not all references to it had been fixed (last I checked - need to check again). [[User:Jnc|Noel]] [[User_talk:Jnc|(talk)]] 13:44, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC)

** '''Delete'''. Nonsense and un-encyclopedic. --[[User:Zappaz|Zappaz]] 03:21, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC)

**'''Delete''', we shouldn't have redirects to meta in the article space to begin with, and this particular article fosters factionalism. [[User:RickK|Rick]][[User talk:RickK|K]] 04:14, Apr 26, 2005 (UTC)

**'''Delete'''. Cross-namespace redirects are unpleasant enough. Cross-''wiki'' redirects are just utterly unspeakable. Even when they're enabled, they don't work properly -- they don't leave behind the "redirected from" thingy under the article title, so you can't get at the original redirect unless you know enough to use the &redirect=no syntax. Not to mention the Inherent Badness of sneakily redirecting people off-site -- not an issue for m:, but some of the places on the [[m:Interwiki map|Interwiki map]] are pretty iffy. &mdash;[[User:Korath|Korath]] ([[User talk:Korath|Talk]]) 07:40, Apr 26, 2005 (UTC)

***'''Comment'''. I don't understand the attitude against trans-wiki redirects. By deleting this you are just making it harder to find this information. Ask yourself... by deleting this, what do you accomplish? All it seems to accomplish is making things harder to find, thus increasing ignorance and confusion. - [[User:Pioneer-12|Pioneer-12]] 14:44, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC)

**'''Delete'''. I don't see a problem with [[Wikipedia:Deletionism]] redirecting to [[m:Deletionism]] (if interwiki redirects are ever re-enabled), but an article in the main article space should not redirect to meta. [[User:TacoDeposit|Taco Deposit]] | [[User_talk:TacoDeposit|Talk-o to Taco]] 16:31, Apr 26, 2005 (UTC)

**'''Delete'''. I second what Taco said, but I doubt that they will enable interwiki redirects. [[User:Jeltz|Jeltz]] [[user talk:Jeltz|<small>talk</small>]] 17:03, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC)

* [[Belle River]] -> [[Belle River Township, Minnesota]]

**'''Keep''' sicne I can't see anything wrong with it. [[User:Jeltz|Jeltz]] [[user talk:Jeltz|<small>talk</small>]] 17:26, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)

* [[Vitis labrusca]]. -> [[Catawba (grape)]]

**'''Keep''' - reasonable alternate name. If I search for "canis familiaris", I'd expect to be redirected to "dog"--Hey, that redirect DOES work! Cool. This one should be kept, too. - [[User:Pioneer-12|Pioneer-12]] 06:23, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)

**<s>'''Keep'''</s> nothign wrong with ahving latin names as redirects. I think that we generally should have a redirect at the latin name of a species. [[User:Jeltz|Jeltz]] [[user talk:Jeltz|<small>talk</small>]] 16:01, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)

***'''Delete''' now that I have checked what was written on [[User_talk:Rmhermen#Catawba_Grape_--.3E_Vitis_labrusca_redirect|Rmhermen's talk page]]. This redirect is incorrect. [[User:Jeltz|Jeltz]] [[user talk:Jeltz|<small>talk</small>]] 17:32, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)

* Last edit summary of both pages before blanking was ''remove inappropriate redirect''. [[User:Angela|Angela]][[user talk:Angela|.]] 10:47, Apr 26, 2005 (UTC)

* [[Table namespace]] &rarr; [[Wikipedia:proposal for intuitive table editor and namespace]]. Redirects to a proposal in wikipedia namespace. [[User:Jeltz|Jeltz]] [[user talk:Jeltz|<small>talk</small>]] 13:21, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC)

*<s> [[Mashgiach]] &rarr; [[Rosh yeshiva]]. "Mashgiach" is a Hebrew word which generally refers to a person who supervises the kashrut of a kosher establishment. It can also refer to a person who supervises the students of a yeshiva (comparable to a guidance counselor), but that is a distinctly different position than a "Rosh Yeshiva", who is the administrative head or dean. --[[User:Keeves|Keeves]] 02:25, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)</s>

**<s>'''Expand''' or change redirect to Wiktionary definition for Mashgiach. According to what Keeves said, this should have it's own article. - [[User:Pioneer-12|Pioneer-12]] 06:13, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)</s>

::This is no longer a redirect. It's now a stub. - [[User:Pioneer-12|Pioneer-12]] 06:36, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)

===April 27===

* [[Male2female]] and [[Male2Female]] ---> [[Transwoman]] (originaly [[M2f]]. Together with the probably equally useless [M2F]] those were created by one person, but have no history, and not a single article linking to them. While one might keep the abbreviations for search purposes, there seems to be little point in keeping the long versions, especially since there are more variations of those, too (Male-to-female, male-to-Female, MtoF, m2F etc); not to mention that all of those exist in the Female-to-Male form as well (which were never created, and so far, not missed, either). -- [[User:AlexR|AlexR]] 08:13, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)