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Wukunendo comment made to Caleb prior to his reverts: "Please stop engaging in edit wars. Read your talk page. Be specific in V's talk page or reply to your talk page. Do not violate the three-revert rule" (changes are after this request and without any consensus).
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▲# 14:40, 4 November 2023 Caleb Stanford talk contribs 17,831 bytes +95 clarify template undo Tag:
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== 0xDeadbeef series of edits/reverts/tags without discussion or consensus==
Includes removal of sources, shown above.
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▲# 07:22, 11 November 2023 0xDeadbeef talk contribs m 17,379 bytes 0 →History: position of originally undo Tag: 2017 wikitext editor
::# [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=V_(programming_language)&diff=prev&oldid=1184574278]
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::The question looks like it's being asked as if suggestions, compromises, or specifics were never/are not given. All while the tagging (continuous changing of tags), degradation, [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Disruptive_editing disruptive looking editing] continues. New tags now placed, "Non-important content should likely be moved to another article or removed", are creating the appearance that more content should be removed. This, after yourself and what appear to be selected editors had already removed lots of relevant content without debate. And that content being removed, was already a compromise.
::A very clear example of what was done: On [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=V_(programming_language)&diff=cur&oldid=1184471742 16:46, 10 November
::You (0xDeadbeef) have made the last '''23''' of the last '''30 edits''' (and counting), since Caleb's last edit. This has been intense, turbulent, and an odd sustained focus on this particular article. For unclear reasons, because it's not like research and editing on a draft for an upcoming review.
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::::I also don't understand why you are talking about programming terminology, I do not take issues with the terms used but with how the content is layed out to give incomplete information while also not detailing how the functionality of the language actually works. [[User:Jan200101|Jan200101]] ([[User talk:Jan200101|talk]]) 06:59, 8 July 2025 (UTC)
:::::From the statements, what you appear to want or are focusing on has nothing to do with copyright law or Wikipedia's policies. Small {{tq|'''code snippets'''}} are {{tq|'''not'''}} protected by copyright (especially common and simplistic small examples), unless more than a dozen or so lines of code, where they can then be considered creative enough. {{tq|'''Paraphrasing'''}} is {{tq|'''not'''}} WP:COPYPASTE and is what editors of Wikipedia are suppose to do when explaining text from a reference. The point of an example, is to {{tq|visually illustrate}}. The text above the example is to {{tq|describe}} what the example is doing. [[User:Wukuendo|Wukuendo]] ([[User talk:Wukuendo|talk]]) 08:30, 8 July 2025 (UTC)
::::::I've been told that the best way to resolve this is to simply add attribution.
::::::To cause no conflict its been added under the WikiProjects on this Talk Page leaving the article untouched. [[User:Jan200101|Jan200101]] ([[User talk:Jan200101|talk]]) 09:08, 9 July 2025 (UTC)
:::::::Changes should be clearly explained, either in the edit summary or on talk ([[WP:ES]]). Especially to not look like a form of vandalism ([[WP:SNEAKY]]). Adding the date of {{tq|'''3 November 2022'''}} is baffling as well. Additionally, most books written about a programming language and nearly all programming articles have some relationship to the language's documentation. So far, searches on other programming language articles with examples on Wikipedia does not show them doing what was attempted here.
:::::::You left a blank edit summary and have stated on talk that {{tq|'''"I've been told"'''}}. It's vague and gives the impression you are working as a team with unknown persons. {{tq|'''Who told you?'''}} (from your statement of "I've been told"). What specific Wikipedia policy are you referring to and what's the connection to this article? [[User:Wukuendo|Wukuendo]] ([[User talk:Wukuendo|talk]]) 22:46, 9 July 2025 (UTC)
::::::::Apologies, the summary got lost when I was previewing the changes.
::::::::I ask you not to accuse me of something that you cannot prove, I've been trying to converse with you in good faith believing that we are both arguing to improve the article.
::::::::The date 3 November 2022 comes the earliest revision of the article {{oldid2|1119793781}} which is the initial revision of the article which also contained the sections copied from the V documentation. The Dual template requires that a date is given so I needed to pick that date.
::::::::I've said that "I've been told" because I've asked on IRC what the best action going forward with this case is since you take any modification to the article as a personal attack.
::::::::What "I've been told" is that this issue is minor and generally not worth fighting over and that simply adding attribution to the Talk page would be the simplest solution since it would satisfy the MIT license and thus count as proper attribution (though I do not fully agree with that but this could be argued about).
::::::::Regarding citing books or documentation, there is nothing wrong with that but it is important to properly cite sources and when entire sections are copied it is important that the license of the source is respected which is not the case here.
::::::::To mention it again, the text is a 1:1 copy from the docs which puts it under the MIT license which requires states
::::::::<blockquote>The above copyright notice and this permission notice shall be included in all copies or substantial portions of the Software.</blockquote>
:::::::: attributing the original source is good enough in this case.
::::::::I'll put the license notice back up with a full summary that explains everything I have written down here because Talk sections can be archived making it impossible to find this message. [[User:Jan200101|Jan200101]] ([[User talk:Jan200101|talk]]) 20:59, 10 July 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::Being told what to do by unknown persons on {{tq|'''IRC'''}} is {{tq|'''not'''}} Wikipedia policy or a noticeboard. Repeating {{tq|'''false claims'''}}, do not make them facts, Wikipedia policy, consensus, or a decision from a Wikipedia noticeboard. Tags referring to {{tq|'''years old'''}} and {{tq|'''partially non-English drafts'''}} are not the present article. Trying to force {{tq|'''misinformation'''}} into an article can be seen as subtle vandalism ([[WP:SNEAKY]]). [[User:Wukuendo|Wukuendo]] ([[User talk:Wukuendo|talk]]) 02:29, 11 July 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::The non-English draft is still the earliest revision of the Article on the english side of wikipedia and where the offending sections were added.
::::::::::If you believe my claims are false or misinformation then lets please put it on [[Wikipedia:Copyright_problems]] so that people more qualified than both of us can judge this.
::::::::::You can even ask for a [[WP:3O]] and if the other party agrees that this isn't at least worth bringing up as a copyright problem then I'm going to willingly drop this. [[User:Jan200101|Jan200101]] ([[User talk:Jan200101|talk]]) 06:05, 11 July 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::My focus is not about what you want to do. I'm here to be productive, where possible. My intervention in this case was because of an apparent violation on subtle vandalism ([[WP:SNEAKY]]), stopping the injection of misinformation, and {{tq|'''adhering to'''}} Wikipedia policies (including how they are applied on other programming articles). I've already demonstrated how your claims on the heap struct section were {{tq|false}} and went into detail about {{tq|other}} false claims made. [[User:Wukuendo|Wukuendo]] ([[User talk:Wukuendo|talk]]) 22:48, 11 July 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::::I do not see how constantly fighting with other editors and causing edit wars is productive, you've already been blocked for being disruptive in the past but lets forget about that for a moment.
::::::::::::You have never refuted my claim that sections of the article were directly copied without proper attribution which in the worst case can be seen as plagarism because it is not original but claims to be and also a violation of the MIT License under which the V documentation is licensed. I also want to make it clear that I am not accusing you or anyone of actual plagarism, it seems to me that he initial article version used text copied from the docs as placeholders that were simply never replaced and I think other people would view it the same, I'm just stating what this would be in the absolute worst case. It still violates the MIT License.
::::::::::::Your arguments against it have been that citing books or documentation is common or that its paraphrasing, neither of which are true since the copied text matches 100% with the documentation (before your edit).
::::::::::::Again, I know that if I am going to submit this article to [[Wikipedia:Copyright_problems]] you are going to revert it which would be avoidant vandalism ([[WP:VANDTYPES]]) which is why I am asking you to either submit it yourself, ask for a [[WP:3O]] or allow me to submit it without doing the vandalism you are accusing me of.
::::::::::::You do not agree with me on the issue hence why we must submit it the article, Copyright problems handles copyright things but also copyright disputes such as this:
::::::::::::<blockquote>The removal of copyrighted content has been contested.</blockquote> and this Talk page section can be included as reference so all your claims will be available to the people making the decision on that.
::::::::::::And if you aren't willing to let this the article be submitted to [[Wikipedia:Copyright_problems]] then I'm going to do it anyway and report any vandalism that you do. [[User:Jan200101|Jan200101]] ([[User talk:Jan200101|talk]]) 06:13, 12 July 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::::(1) You made {{tq|'''false'''}} statements, like about the heap section, {{tq|"doesn't use the cited source at all"}}, and were proven wrong and shown the source does have it. (2) Based on teaming up with {{tq|unknown persons}} on {{tq|'''IRC'''}} (from your statements), you then attempted to force a tag that related to a {{tq|'''partially non-English draft'''}} from {{tq|'''2022'''}} that is {{tq|'''not'''}} related to the present version of the article. This type of distortion and misinformation falls under subtle vandalism ([[WP:SNEAKY]]), it was removed, and you were notified. (3) It was {{tq|explained}} to you (including other talk section) how the present article does not look to be in violation of plagiarism or copyright, aligns with other programming articles, and that rewritten articles can be {{tq|'''within policy'''}}. (4) Lastly, you appear overly intent on pushing other editors to do as you want. That is {{tq|'''not'''}} Wikipedia policy ([[WP:CHOICE]]). [[User:Wukuendo|Wukuendo]] ([[User talk:Wukuendo|talk]]) 23:40, 12 July 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::::::I believe you are confused right now.
::::::::::::::We are having a disagreement right now about what is true and what is false.
::::::::::::::Normally you would go on the [[Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard]] for this however since this is about copyright we need to go to [[Wikipedia:Copyright_problems]].
::::::::::::::This is not about pushing or forcing other editors to do as I want, its to resolve this dispute once and for all and I've said that if they ruled against me and and that I am indeed wrong I would accept that.
::::::::::::::I've also, in good faith, given you the faster option of asking for a [[WP:3O]] to see if someone else agrees that going to [[Wikipedia:Copyright_problems]] is reasonable and if they didn't I would not persue this anymore.
::::::::::::::I'm trying, in good faith, to get you to understand this so we can resolve this dispute through a third party.
::::::::::::::But because this appears to be going nowhere I'm giving you an ultimatum: In 24 hours I will submit this article to [[Wikipedia:Copyright_problems]] myself, this will require that the following template be put on the article
::::::::::::::{{tl|copyvio}}{{tl|Copyvio/bottom}} which will hide the content from view and since you keep accusing me of vandalism you should understand that removing this template all constitutes as avoidant vandalism. [[User:Jan200101|Jan200101]] ([[User talk:Jan200101|talk]]) 07:28, 13 July 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::::::I've marked sections that I could directly match to the documentation as copyvio and reported it [[Wikipedia:Copyright_problems/2025_July_15]] [[User:Jan200101|Jan200101]] ([[User talk:Jan200101|talk]]) 16:57, 15 July 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::::::::The Copyright clerk has made the [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Copyright_problems/2025_July_15?markasread=338948454&markasreadwiki=enwiki#15_July_2025 determination] that, "{{tq|'''the snippets of code are too short and too functional'''}} to be considered a copyright violation. As it stands, there is {{tq|'''no copyright infringement'''}}". This will also be placed in a separate section of the article's talk, not to instigate, but to guide future editors.[[User:Wukuendo|Wukuendo]] ([[User talk:Wukuendo|talk]]) 22:31, 24 August 2025 (UTC)
== References could strongly be improved ==
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::::You are correct that small code snippets, especially those that try to achieve the same goal, tend to look the same, however this in the case the code matches character for character {{Diff|Main Page|prev|1299286929|until the naming was changed}}.
::::I'm more than willing to put up the work but you have a history of reverting other peoples changes and causing edit wars so I'm trying to find a resolution where we can work together to improve this article. [[User:Jan200101|Jan200101]] ([[User talk:Jan200101|talk]]) 12:05, 8 July 2025 (UTC)
:::::For clarity, it was editors {{tq|'''before me'''}} that added the examples and the basic structure of the article. What later editors and myself did was to be {{tq|productive}} and elevate the draft to an article. This includes finding sources, making corrections, fixing vandalism, and helping it survive the recent attempt to outright delete it. Coming to Wikipedia for such activities as disruptive editing ([[WP:DISRUPTIVE]]), battling ([[WP:BATTLE]]), vandalizing articles of languages that one doesn't like ([[WP:VANDAL]]), and wholesale deletionism is not productive nor what I'm here to do.
:::::Your accusations directed towards me about copyright and plagiarism are {{tq|false}}, just like the {{tq|other accusation}} about heap struct not being cited correctly or paraphrased was also {{tq|false}}. It also appears that you do not understand copyright nor does it look like you have {{tq|checked a variety of other programming articles}} to compare. You can {{tq|'''not'''}} copyright small simplistic code snippets such as {{code|1=a := 3}}. If someone changed a variable from {{code|1=z := 3}} to {{code|1=y := 3}}, that would still {{tq|not}} be a copyright violation, when the code snippet is {{tq|'''too small'''}} to
== Nova Trex/Wang ==
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:Per Wikipedia, {{tq|"Once notability is established, primary sources and self-published sources may be used with appropriate care to verify some of the article's content"}}. In this case, the article goes the extra step, to only be used for and in the {{tq|further reading}} section. [[User:Wukuendo|Wukuendo]] ([[User talk:Wukuendo|talk]]) 00:08, 8 July 2025 (UTC)
== Decision Concerning Copyright Challenge ==
Per copyright clerk, 24 August 2025, the article has {{tq|'''no copyright infrignment'''}}. Code examples used in the article are also "too short and too functional to be considered a copyright violation". Original statement can be read [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Copyright_problems/2025_July_15?markasread=338948454&markasreadwiki=enwiki#15_July_2025 here]. Additionally, the license statement placed under references by the copyright clerk should not be removed, unless under their [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Copyright_problems advisement or direction]. [[User:Wukuendo|Wukuendo]] ([[User talk:Wukuendo|talk]]) 10:04, 27 August 2025 (UTC)
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