Wikipedia:Templates for deletion/Log/2007 June 5: Difference between revisions
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===June 5===
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==== [[Template:ROC2]] ====
<div class="boilerplate vfd" style="background-color: #e3f9df; padding: 0 10px 0 10px; border: 1px solid #AAAAAA;">
:''The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this page. ''
The result of the debate was '''delete'''. [[User:Can't sleep, clown will eat me|Can't sleep, clown will eat me]] 04:35, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
:{{lt|ROC2}}
*'''Delete'''. Template is superfluous, as there is already [[Template:ROC]]. No reason to have a second one, other than for certain users' political POV. — [[User:John Smith's|John Smith's]] 23:15, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
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*'''Delete''' per above. --[[User:Folic Acid|Folic Acid]] 23:41, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
*'''Ditto'''. [[User:Vic226|<span style="background:#008"><
*'''Delete''' even though I agree with the content ("Republic of China"), I don't think there should be two templates. For the purpose of TFD, I vote for delete. --[[User:Chochopk|ChoChoPK]] (球球PK) ([[User talk:Chochopk|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Chochopk|contrib]]) 09:22, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' Wikipedia has no need for this template.--[[User:Sir james paul|James, La gloria è a dio]] 14:03, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
*'''''Comment''''' I believe, and this is my own opinion, that consensus has been reach as so far everyone that has responded has voiced that this template be deleted. This template was also created by a distruptive and extremist user who has been costantly banned for vandalism, edit-warring, and sockpuppetry (I think that's a word). Anyways I call that this template (ROC2) be deleted ASAP. We do not need some thing that tries to push an extremist POV. Thank you. [[User:Nat.tang|Nat Tang]] <sup> [[user talk:Nat.tang|talk to me!]] | [[special:contributions/Nat.tang|Check on my contributions!]]|[[Special:Emailuser/Nat.tang|Email Me!]]</sup> 12:51, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
:''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>
==== [[Template:Dated dfu]] ====
<div class="boilerplate vfd" style="background-color: #e3f9df; padding: 0 10px 0 10px; border: 1px solid #AAAAAA;">
:''The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this page. ''
The result of the debate was {{{1|}}} '''No consensus''' (defaults as keep). The template (as it exists now) seems to fit image deletion policy, and the objectionable admin-removal-only [[WP:CREEP|instruction creep]] is gone. The question then seems to be whether it is the most appropriate tag to use. There are other options for editors to use in cases where there is no fair use rationale, but consensus does not seem to exist regarding which, or how many, image deletion tags should exist. [[User:IronGargoyle|IronGargoyle]] 12:01, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
:{{lt|Dated dfu}}
Wow! How much more misleading can a template get? This templates prime function appeared/s to be to act as a sort of image prod, just with the "only administrators may remove" bureaucratic felgercarb... oh, but it also states that after seven days: the image may be deleted as it's remained in place for seven days! Nonsensical, tell me 'bout it!
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:::Presumably that was newer guidelines came into force (it's difficult to back date a policy, especially if the outcome is deletion,as the original uploader may no longer be an active wikipedian). -- [[User:Ratarsed|Ratarsed]] 11:30, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
:: I6 isn't a catch all deletion clause, the template states nothing of rationales.. there are numerous reasons why "This image's fair-use status is disputed" that wouldn't be compliant with I6, this is basically an attempt to create a catch-all image deletion template. [[User:Matthew|Matthew]] 07:51, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
:Actually, this template is very new. It was created on 22 May 2007. It's the concept that it tries to enforce that is not new. --[[User:GentlemanGhost|GentlemanGhost]] 17:50, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
<s>*'''Delete''', duplicates functionality already present in [[Template:nrd|nrd]]. --[[User:Powerlord|Powerlord]] 07:24, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
*:I further conjecture that this template may have been created to bypass policy (by avoiding the edit protection on [[Template:No rationale|No rationale]]), which is called from nrd (AKA No rationale dated). [[WP:CSD]] says that [[Template:nrd|nrd]] is the correct template to use to tag media missing a fair use rationale, and as such, that template is protected. --[[User:Powerlord|Powerlord]] 20:28, 7 June 2007 (UTC)</s>
*'''Keep''', the problem isn't with the template, it's with [[User:BetacommandBot|BetacommandBot]] using this template instead of the correct one, {{tl|nrd}}. -- [[User:Powerlord|Powerlord]] 20:57, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
**actually I was using {{tl|nrd}} (48 hour deletion) and the other {{tl|non-free use disputed}} which is for images uploaded prior May 4, 2006 and has a 7 day deletion time. But the issue is that the {{tl|nrd}} clearly states not to use it for images prior to May 4, 2006, instead use {{tl|non-free use disputed}} that template doesnt use dating, and the bot was creating a large backlog that wasnt dated so an admin created that dated template for use instead of {{tl|non-free use disputed}}. [[User:Betacommand|Betacommand]] <sup>([[User talk:Betacommand|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Betacommand|contribs]] • [[User:BetacommandBot|Bot]])</sup> 17:59, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
*'''Keep''', not the same as nrd, I think the time limit should go up, but its useful, and needed if we are ever to fix the rationale problem. —— '''[[user:Eagle 101|<span style="color:navy;">Eagle</span><span style="color:red;">101</span>]]'''<sup>[[user_talk:Eagle 101|Need help?]]</sup> 07:52, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
*'''Delete'''. Violates spirit of Wikipedia and U.S. copyright fair use doctrine. --[[User:Nricardo|Nricardo]] 10:32, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
*'''Delete'''. Functionality better covered by {{tl|nrd}}/{{tl|No rationale}}. The template also appears to be being abused; Of all the examples I've seen this applied to, they have all been company logos that have been uploaded prior to the date requiring a rationale for the sole purpose of identifying the company on the article page about said company, which is well within fair use. -- [[User:Ratarsed|Ratarsed]] 11:30, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
*'''Throw it into a blackhole''' as per Powerlord. [[User:OhanaUnited|<span style="font-weight:bold"><
* '''Keep''' Useful for images that technically have what resembles a rationale, but one that is obviously invalid in some way. [[User:ShadowHalo|ShadowHalo]] 12:00, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
** {{tl|Non-free use disputed}}... [[User:Matthew|Matthew]] 12:03, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
*** Which is being deprecated in favor of this tag. —[[User:Angr|'''An''']][[User talk:Angr|''gr'']] 14:57, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
**** …by [[User:ESkog|Eskog]], the creator of this tag. --[[User:GentlemanGhost|GentlemanGhost]] 19:04, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
***** If you believe that other tag should exist, I don't comprehend why you feel this one should be deleted. The problem with that tag is that since it didn't sort into dated categories, disputes would sit untouched for (in the worst cases) up to 11 months. ([[User:ESkog|ESkog]])<sup>([[User talk:ESkog|Talk]])</sup> 16:03, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' Per above.--[[User:Sir james paul|James, La gloria è a dio]] 14:04, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
*'''Keep''', useful for all sorts of purposes, and IFD is overwhelmed with obvious cases. A "PROD for non-free images" is thus a very good idea indeed. And it's not a speedy-deletion template: images with it aren't deleted for seven days, while at IFD it's only five. —[[User:Angr|'''An''']][[User talk:Angr|''gr'']] 14:55, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
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*'''Delete'''. Needs to be more specific. I get tired of getting these "anonymous" notices that I haven't supplied enough information. If they need more information, why don't the propser go in and state what is needed. It doesn't seem to matter, I wasn't given 7 days to respond, I managed to get something on it anyway, and without warning, the image was deleted anyway. I'm ignoring any more notices. An administrator is free to delete the images. I don't care anymore. This kind of garbage is why I quit Wikipedia some time ago. I'm thinking about it again.[[User:Squad51|Squad51]] 03:19, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
*:If you aren't happy to comply with our policies and processes, there are around a billion other sites on the Web for you to visit. [[User:81.104.175.145|81.104.175.145]] 17:31, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
*::I'm happy to work with this, I just think there's a better way to handle this. You don't need to be rude about it; being rude is why I quit the first time, and why I'm think about it again. I've found some of those other "billion" websites where some people have left Wikipedia for just the reason. To me, this seems on a par with arresting someone for breaking the law, then refusing to tell them what law they broke. [[User:Squad51|Squad51]] 02:48, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
*:::Before the bot was tagging, very few people were given notice about their images not passing [[WP:NFCC]]. We're not perfect here on Wikipedia, but if you were confused by the message.. then ask for some help. There's so many ways to get help or to find out things here. Not to mention, you're supposed to be aware of these things ''before'' you upload. If you are uploading without reading the rules then you only have yourself to blame for not knowing what's going on. If you want to leave Wikipedia over ''this'', then don't let the door hit you on the ass on your way out. If you want to get over the WikiDrama and get back to editing one of the best websites on the internet, stop your bitching and learn from your mistakes. -- [[User:Ned Scott|Ned Scott]] 03:11, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
*'''Keep''' - proposer's rationale is somewhere between "flawed" and "patently inaccurate". On "bureaucracy and incorrectness", nowhere does it say that only administrators are fit to judge. It says that "subject to administrator review, [the image] may be deleted", which is perfectly accurate. Only administrators are able to delete, and one would hope they check the bowl before they flush. On supposed "redundancy", you could say that PROD is redundant to the intersection of AfD and CSD. If anything, PROD exists for cases of "I think this should be speedied but doesn't strictly fit the criteria" and "I think this should be deleted, and don't expect much dissent". I remember the time when a hundred articles a day would turn up on AfD, most of which were clear-cut deletions, and around half being unanimous or near-unanimous. A key point here is that a valid fair use rationale is [[WP:NFC|required by policy]], the lack of one is a criterion for speedy deletion (I6). Finally, your statement of "Consensual?" absolutely reeks of the foul stench of "process before product". [[WP:PPP|The encyclopaedia comes first]], no exceptions. [[User:81.104.175.145|81.104.175.145]] 17:31, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
::Anonymous users may not vote on articles or templates for discussion [[User:Bleh999|Bleh999]] 21:34, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
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********* OK, now you're just being stupid. You're suggesting nothing short of the possibility of being "a little bit pregnant". If a FUR is provided, it is either valid or it isn't. If it isn't, it's a valid I7. If there is no FUR at all, it's a valid I6. End of story. [[User:81.104.175.145|81.104.175.145]] 00:21, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
*'''Keep'' - Although I agree that the time limit to give a rationale should go up. [[User:Jezebel Parks|Jezebel Parks]] 21:18, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
*'''Keep''' per ^demon. [[User:Riana|Riana]] [[User talk:Riana|<
*'''Delete''' as basically an image prod. -[[:User:
**Not an image prod at all. Prod is "I want this deleted because <reason>", which is discretionary. This is "Image doesn't meet [[WP:NFCC]]", which is mandatory. [[User:81.104.175.145|81.104.175.145]] 00:21, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
*'''
*'''Keep''' Its not clear to me how to tag all these images claiming fair use, without rationale, or with a rationale for use and one page, but then the image shows up on four others. See all the concert photos on [[Led Zeppelin]]. I'm a fan, and they look great, but these are not free images and no rationale is provided for their use. <em>—[[User:Gaff|<
*'''Delete.''' [[User:Uris|Uris]] 16:20, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
*'''Keep''' If it does not meet our criteria for fair use then this tag is needed. [[User talk:H|<small><sup style="color:#000;">(<span style="color:#c20;">H</span>)</sup></small>]]<!-- Was HighInBC --> 16:18, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
*'''Comment'''. As noted by its creator, {{user|ESkog}}, this template and its companion {{tl|dfu}} were created as an attempt "to rollout [a] dated version of {{tl|Non-free use disputed}}". [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Dfu&diff=132595498&oldid=132595180] However, the new template differs from {{tl|Non-free use disputed}} and some people object to this. As noted by ESkog, the new template is based on {{tl|prod}}. [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Dfu&diff=next&oldid=132591861] Like a prod, the instructions for {{tl|dfu}} seem to indicate that the image may simply be deleted outright if no fair use rationale is provided within seven days. In contrast, the instructions for {{tl|Non-free use disputed}} tell the reviewing admin to tag the image with {{tl|db-badfairuse}} as the next step. While this would not forestall deletion for very much longer, it is a difference of procedure. --[[User:GentlemanGhost|GentlemanGhost]] 19:04, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
**I don't see this as a change in the situation really; admins don't typically use the speedy deletion tags since we can just delete the image. If you disagree, you're welcome to fix the template and open up some discussion there. ([[User:ESkog|ESkog]])<sup>([[User talk:ESkog|Talk]])</sup> 22:49, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
***That could very well be true - admins may in fact not use the speedy delete tags and proceed straight to deletion. I just pointed it out because it is the only difference in procedure as far as I can tell. It took me a while to figure out that the images (if left as is) will end up in the same deletion queue no matter which template is used. So, in practice, it sounds like there isn't much difference between the two. My point in adding a comment was to try to unemotionally explain what differences there are between the two. Too often within this debate, people are ascribing motivations to people they disagree with, which is hardly good faith. I've tried to use your edit summaries to indicate the thinking behind the template's creation. Obviously, you can do that better than me, so I have misstated anything, please correct me. In actuality, I don't disagree with you. I didn't "vote" because I thought it would defeat the purpose of adding neutral commentary. I'm perfectly fine with this template - I think it fills a need. Looking at my other comments, I can see why it might seem like I am against it, but that's actually not the case. --[[User:GentlemanGhost|GentlemanGhost]] 00:43, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
*'''Keep''' — Well this is quite ridiculous. Don't agree with how fair use enforcement is being done? Oh, just nominate one of the templates for deletion! And hilarity doth ensue. This is the kind of issue you need real discussion over, not just a potshot at one of the templates. --[[User:Cyde|<span style="color:#ff66ff;">'''Cyde Weys'''</span>]] 23:41, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
**'''Comment''' Since this template is supposed to be used via subst, deleting it will have no effect on existing instances of it. --[[User:Powerlord|Powerlord]] 04:46, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
*'''Redirect or something''' We have too many templates with different usages and naming and restrictions and other bullshit that I cannot even fucking keep track of them. There are something like three different tags that all say 'This image doesn't have a source, add one!' Adding a new one that serves basically the same purpose as others does not help. {{[[Template:No rationale|No rationale]]}} doesn't have dated categories? Why not just make {{[[Template:No rationale|No rationale]]}} dated? Or [[Template:No Rational dated]]? We should be a concerted effort to deal with the problem cases and get rid of this quagmire of different ways we have to speedy delete non-free images depending on the phase of the moon when the image was uploaded or if the image description page lacks Foo. This template does not seem to be helping. [[User:Kotepho|Kotepho]] 00:13, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
**'''Comment''' There is a No rationale dated template, it's just named {{tl|nrd}} instead of No rationale dated. --[[User:Powerlord|Powerlord]] 04:43, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
***But that fails the date of uploaded after 4 May 2006, issue. [[User:Betacommand|Betacommand]] <sup>([[User talk:Betacommand|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Betacommand|contribs]] • [[User:BetacommandBot|Bot]])</sup> 04:45, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
****The 4 May 2006 cutoff is set by policy, in particular [[WP:CSD#I6|WP:CSD I6]], which also incidently tells you exactly what templates to use if the date is after 4 May 2006. {{tlsp|nrd}} simply calls the dated version of {{tlsp|No rationale}} using the current date. --[[User:Powerlord|Powerlord]] 05:04, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
*'''Keep''' (creator). As noted above by several, this exists to replace {{tl|Non-free use disputed}} to allow administrators to properly review these images. While many images have been tagged with this for "no fair-use rationale" (a use which was previously used on the other template), there are also taggings which call into question the claims of fair use on other grounds. Administrators should not be simply deleting these images - just as they shouldn't be deleting speedy delete pages without review - but should be reviewing the claim of fair use. It may need some modification and tweaking, but this is a useful template. ([[User:ESkog|ESkog]])<sup>([[User talk:ESkog|Talk]])</sup> 15:58, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
::Thanks for explaining. I guess this discussion is heading towards "no consensus=keep", in which case after this is closed, could you redirect the replaced template? Thanks, [[User:Addhoc|Addhoc]] 16:21, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
:''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>
==== Misc. In-universe templates ====
<div class="boilerplate vfd" style="background-color: #e3f9df; padding: 0 10px 0 10px; border: 1px solid #AAAAAA;">
:''The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this page. ''
The result of the debate was {{{1|}}} '''merge per ChoChopk'''. This discussions is now closed, but there will be a slight delay in processing of the templates. [[User:RyanGerbil10|RyanGerbil10]]<small>[[User_talk:RyanGerbil10|(Don't ask 'bout Camden)]]</small> 04:18, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
:{{lt|Animanga-in-universe}}
:{{lt|Comics-in-universe}}
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I thought that [[Template:ME-in-universe]] was an anomaly, but apparently it wasn't. We don't need all of these variations of [[Template:In-universe]]. --'''[[User:TheFarix|Farix]]''' ([[User talk:TheFarix|Talk]]) 17:26, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' - There's no such thing as in-universe. [[User:Matthew|Matthew]] 22:43, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
**Yes, there is. Where did you get that idea? -[[User:Amarkov|Amarkov]] <small>[[User_talk:Amarkov|moo!]]</small> 01:37, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
***Matthew, why are you voting when you don't even understand what you're voting about? [[User:Doczilla|Doczilla]] 07:53, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
* '''Delete''' as redundant. I don't see anything specifically helpful in specifying which "in-universe" an [[WP:WAF|article about a fictional topic]] is about. — '''[[User:pd_THOR|<span style="color:#CC0000;">pd_THOR</span>]]''' <sup>|''' [[User_talk:pd_THOR|=/\=]]'''</sup> | 07:17, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
* '''a) merge and parameterize, or b) create a meta template for the 4''' The 4 templates in question put the transcluding articles in
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*'''Delete'''.--[[User:DrBat|DrBat]] 22:10, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
*'''Consolidate''' add a custom option for {{tl|in-universe}} to do what was already being done. -- [[User:Ned Scott|Ned Scott]] 05:16, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
*'''Consolidate''', separate templates are unnecessary, but differentiation is needed. —[[Wikipedia:Editor review/T-borg - ER 2|<
*'''Delete''' / '''Consolidate''' per Chochopk / Ned Scott ˉˉ<sup>[[User:Anetode|'''anetode''']]</sup>[[User_talk:Anetode|╦╩]] 19:34, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
*'''Keep''', but I am open to reason. To my mind, the most important function of {{tl|comics-in-universe}} is populating the category [[:Category:Comics articles that need to differentiate between fact and fiction]]. This category is useful to facilitate cleanup done by [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Comics|WikiProject Comics]]. If there's a way to integrate that functionality into the main {{tl|in-universe}}, then I think we can get rid of the comics-specific one. --[[User:GentlemanGhost|GentlemanGhost]] 21:51, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
* <span style="font-size: smaller;">Note: This debate has been added to the [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Video games/Deletion|list of video game deletions]]. [[User:GentlemanGhost|GentlemanGhost]] 22:13, 10 June 2007 (UTC)</span>
*'''Delete''' - We already have a general tag, we don't need special ones that merely say "Television", "character", "comic", etc. That's just unecessary. <span style="font-family:Tempus Sans ITC">[[User:Bignole|<small>'''<span style="background:Maroon;color:Gold"> BIGNOLE </span>'''</small>]]</span> <span style="font-family:Showcard Gothic">[[User talk:Bignole|<small>(Contact me)</small>]]</span> 22:06, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
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*'''Consolidate''' I think they all need to be merged but an option needs to be provided for what type of media or maybe even the series [[User:Katori22|Katori22]] 22:38, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
::Huh? Merging them all eliminates that "option". [[User:Doczilla|Doczilla]] 07:50, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
*'''Consolidate''' and I offer myself to create all this parser functions (manga=yes comics=yes, etc)--'''''[[User:Andersmusician|<
*'''Consolidate''' - Sounds like a great idea to me.--[[User:AgentCDE|AgentCDE]] / [[User talk:AgentCDE|Talk]] / 07:32, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
*'''Strong keep.''' Deletion/consolidation arguments are weak (e.g., "Sounds like a great idea to me."? Really?). The distinction is incredibly useful for editorial cleanup purposes. Not everyone is interested in editing every article that's in-universe, but will take an interest in certain kinds of articles. If you're only into manga, you want to clean up manga articles, and so on. It's useful to have a by-type template with a handy "What links here" list. [[User:Doczilla|Doczilla]] 07:48, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
:*'''Comment''' No distinction will be lost. Read my original vote. The merged template will have a parameter to switch the category, and perhaps icon. The wording and structured will be, however, centralized. --[[User:Chochopk|ChoChoPK]] (球球PK) ([[User talk:Chochopk|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Chochopk|contrib]]) 10:59, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
::*Please direct us to an example of a template that has worked that way so we can see how that is supposed to work. [[User:Doczilla|Doczilla]] 18:01, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
:::*I do not have an example on the top of my head. But I can make one if you really want. When finished, you would use
::::<pre>{{some template|type=vg}}</pre>
::::for video game. And
::::<pre>{{some template|type=tv}}</pre>
::::for TV. --[[User:Chochopk|ChoChoPK]] (球球PK) ([[User talk:Chochopk|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Chochopk|contrib]]) 18:30, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
*'''Comment''' Exactly. All infoboxes have similar options/parameters. However, I can see the keep argument from a cleanup point of view as Doczilla said. <small>—The preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:Katori22|Katori22]] ([[User talk:Katori22|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Katori22|contribs]]){{#if:{{{2|}}}| {{{2}}}|}}.</small><!-- Template:Unsigned -->
**Well, the added switch can add the article to a category based on the parameter, so it would still have the same function that Doc is talking about. -- [[User:Ned Scott|Ned Scott]] 06:40, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
*'''Consolidate'''. It's useful for cleanup to categorize by medium, but not particularly helpful to differentiate to the template reader. So I would suggest making the category switchable. I believe it would be more helpful to make the template's text be freely replaceable than force it to a collection of presets though, since that way you could put in other text like "this section" or "the rest of the article" for when the page only has too much in-universe in part of it (the second one is especialy useful since on long pages it lets you work incrementally and flag where you are up to). --[[User:tjstrf|tjstrf]] <small>[[User talk:tjstrf|talk]]</small> 08:47, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
*'''Comment''' - I can see the argument for consolidation, but that can lead to excessive bureaucracy and make editing templates harder when different wikiprojects may want to design individual templates for individual uses. Also, a consolidated template will be used in more articles, and so may end up protected, which could again slow things down. Also, the debates that took place on separate talk pages will now be gathered together on one talk pages discussing what in effect are many different templates. I understand how parameters work (though I don't understand the coding), but I'm not sure quite sure how the other aspects of this will work in practice. Also, take a look at [[:Category:WikiProject Middle-earth templates]]. I populated this category in an effort to keep track of the various templates in use, and meant to sort them further into 'content' templates, 'tidying up' templates, 'admin' templates, and so forth. As someone who finds using templates difficult enough, I much prefer to copy an existing template and tweak it, rather than try and work out how the coding works for parameters. For a more complex example, have a look at {{tl|ME-ref}}. See also {{tl|ME-date}}, {{tl|ME-lang}}, {{tl|Tolkienchar}} {{tl|Tolkien-sectstub}} and {{tl|Tolkien-stub}}. That latter one, at least, has its category integrated into [[:Category:Stub categories]]. I'm not sure how close this debate is to closing, but I am contacting the designer/maintainer of several of these templates to get his input, so could the close wait a few days? [[User:Carcharoth|Carcharoth]] 09:53, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
*'''Another comment''' - by the logic of consolidation, would consolidation of all the separate stub templates into one switchable template ever be considered? If not, where is the line drawn? [[User:Carcharoth|Carcharoth]] 09:53, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
:*'''Comment''' In fact, I would argue that stub templates should be turned into parameterized meta template (at least behind the scene). I wrote my argument at [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Village%20pump%20%28proposals%29&oldid=139270884#Promote_the_use_of_multilevel_templates Wikipedia:Village pump (proposals)#Promote the use of multilevel templates]. I'm sorry to be direct, but '''copying-and-pasting code is not the best practice'''.... --[[User:Chochopk|ChoChoPK]] (球球PK) ([[User talk:Chochopk|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Chochopk|contrib]]) 10:24, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
::*In principle, I agree, but would you agree that parameterized templates are more off-putting for people to edit (easier to break for example) than non-parameterized templates? If the templates were laid out clearly, making it easy to find and edit the text, as opposed to being obscured by all the logic and IF functions, then I could support consolidation. Have a look at the source code for {{tl|WPBiography}}. Now consider a fairly experienced editor with little experience of template coding trying to make head or tail of that. I tried once, and failed. I wouldn't like to see over-consolidation end up with lots of monster templates like that. [[User:Carcharoth|Carcharoth]] 10:30, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
*'''Note to closer''' - note that I have asked for the close to be delayed for a few days for more input (please see my main comment above). Hope this is OK. [[User:Carcharoth|Carcharoth]] 09:53, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
:*Actually, rather embarassingly, I see that this debate is not about ME templates at all, though they are mentioned. If TfD decide to keep the ME ones, but consolidate the others, maybe the issue of whether to consolidate the ME ones can be revisited at a later date? [[User:Carcharoth|Carcharoth]] 10:13, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
*'''Keep''' - Ask yourself - Why do we not have just '''one''' 'stub' template with parameters for all the different topics of stubs? That is an exact parallel to the argument being made here. Unfortunately, not everyone knows how to set up or modify a conditional template to show different text and put pages into different categories based on the parameter(s) passed. It is alot easier to copy a simple template with no conditionals and change the text and category link. We could merge these templates, but then when the next group comes along and wants to set up a category for their topic... chances are they are going to set up a new single use template. Further, the more topics you add the more convoluted and resource intensive a single template will get. These 'one shot' templates are '''exactly''' what the template system was originally created for. This is how they are ''supposed'' to be used. Making them all one template adds greater complexity with no significant benefit. Standardized infoboxes for related topics have benefits... they provide a consistent format to the output and are easier to maintain than disparate variations. For simple text notices like these the output format isn't particularly important (they are intended to be ''removed'') and 'maintenance' is all but non-existent... you write it, you use it, and there is seldom anything which needs changing. --[[User talk:CBDunkerson|CBD]] 11:19, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
*:'''Comment''' Ask yourself, why do we have {{tl|zh icon}}, {{tl|es icon}}, and {{tl|pt icon}} all calling {{tl|languageicon}} behind the scene? Would you say that copying and pasting <tt><nowiki><span style="font-size: 0.95em; font-weight: bold; color:#555; position: relative;"></nowiki></tt> is easier? If done correctly, meta template '''actually reduces clutter''', like the example I just gave. Furthermore, if I want to add another language icon, {{tl|languageicon}} doesn't need to be changed at all.
*:The same applies to these 4 templates. When I say consolidate, it doesn't mean these 4 templates will be physically deleted. There will be a meta template behind the scene. That's my option b since the beginning. This again reduce clutter. Do you want to see "<tt><nowiki><div class="plainlinks messagebox cleanup metadata">This article or section on a...</nowiki></tt>" in 4 different places or one? What if somebody wants to change the style or the wording in the future, which is actually applicable to all 4? What if copying-and-pasting is done to 100 templates? Not so easy on updating anymore, eh?
*:Another real example is {{tl|Numismaticnotice}} and {{tl|Electron}}. These project banners used to take a "class" parameter, where the values can be FA, G, A, B, start, or stub. This code has been copied and pasted. And then somebody decided to add more classes like template, category, dab, etc. Then the logic has to be re-copied-and-pasted.
*:It looks like this TFD is going to be keep or consolidate. In fact, for the purpose of TFD (to delete or not), these two outcomes are not too different. I consider "keep" as "keep as is", and "consolidate" as "keep, then rewrite". --[[User:Chochopk|ChoChoPK]] (球球PK) ([[User talk:Chochopk|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Chochopk|contrib]]) 18:59, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
*::Ok, I wouldn't normally use the term 'consolidating' to describe 'keeping all the current templates and adding one more', but it is a viable approach... which as you note has nothing to do with whether the templates are deleted or not. 'Linking' the templates by having them all run through one 'top level' formatting template is fine. Essentially, [[Template:Comics-in-universe]] would be rewritten to contain just something like: <nowiki>{{Generic-in-universe|comics|Comics articles that need to differentiate between fact and fiction}}</nowiki>. The 'Generic-in-universe' template would then have all the formatting to produce the banner and boilerplate text and plug in 'comics' in the text describing the type of article and 'Comics articles that need to differentiate between fact and fiction' as the category to link the page to. People would continue using <nowiki>{{Comics-in-universe}}</nowiki> in the articles and get exactly the same results as before. New templates would be created by setting up 'Template:DoctorWho-in-universe' with the code <nowiki>{{Generic-in-universe|Doctor Who|Doctor Who articles that need to differentiate between fact and fiction}}</nowiki>, et cetera. It can be done. I don't know that it really '''needs''' to be, as I don't think it is all that critical that all 'in universe' templates be formatted exactly the same way. --[[User talk:CBDunkerson|CBD]] 10:40, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
*'''Keep''' - forgot to give my opinion after my comment, and was also waiting for a definitive argument in favour of keeping. Which has been provided. See CBD's comment above. With the caveat that the categories used by each templates should be placed in the general category, to enable those browsing the wider category looking for stuff to fix to be made aware that the specialised categories also exist. ie. categorise the categories, but don't consolidate the templates (it is off-putting to those who don't understand advanced template coding). [[User:Carcharoth|Carcharoth]] 11:28, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
*'''Comment''' But "real beginners" don't add the stub templates much anyway. They usually write the stub articles, which are then given the stub template by a more experienced user. Not that I'm generalizing--I'm pretty new myself--just, er, commenting :) But yeah, I think this subject needs more debate. I've seen some good arguments and I also think we should extend the time. [[User:Katori22|Katori22]] 17:15, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
*'''Comment''' Some people seem to wonder why we would consolidate the template, instead of just having more than one. The big reason is it makes maintenance easier for the templates. Lets say something happens, and we change our policy or just move it to another page, and we update these templates, but a few get forgotten. Consolidation means you only have to update the text of one copy, and then everyone's version of that template is up to date. At least that's why I think it would be a good idea. -- [[User:Ned Scott|Ned Scott]] 04:05, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
**'''Reply''' I don't know much about templates, but I thought they were pretty much like that anyway? [[User:Katori22|Katori22]] 05:06, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
***No, because right now they are independent templates. If you want to update the text of in-universe you would have to update each one manually, as things currently are. Thanks to the magic of [[m:ParserFunctions|ParserFunctions]] we can make one template act like several, and the over-lap text will always be in sync. -- [[User:Ned Scott|Ned Scott]] 18:55, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
*'''Comment''' For those of you who want to keep the categorization, why not alter the talkpage WikiProject templates to include them? I believe a couple of wikiprojects already does this and I've been working on something similar with [[Template:WikiProject Anime and manga]] as part of a general [[User:TheFarix/Sandbox|overhaul of the template]]. With that option, there is no need to have all of these variations of these variations of the cleanup templates for different WikiProjects. --'''[[User:TheFarix|Farix]]''' ([[User talk:TheFarix|Talk]]) 18:16, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
**That actually sounds more complicated than it needs to be. An editor would add a clean-up tag, then flip around to the talk page and alter a seemingly unrelated banner to add it to a cat. -- [[User:Ned Scott|Ned Scott]] 18:50, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
***I can't speak for the other projects but {{tl|comicsproj}} already has this functionality. Using the parameter "fiction=yes" adds the article to [[:Category:Comics articles that need to differentiate between fact and fiction]]. Using {{tl|comics-in-universe}} is just a different way of doing the same thing. --[[User:GentlemanGhost|GentlemanGhost]] 23:15, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
****Not really, as in-universe isn't just about fact and fiction distinction. Regardless, it still seems silly to me to use two templates, one for visual tagging, then a different one on the talk page for categorizing the first one. -- [[User:Ned Scott|Ned Scott]] 00:12, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
*****Point taken. However, the name of the category was presumably based on (and it is a subset of) [[:Category:Articles_that_need_to_differentiate_between_fact_and_fiction]], which is utilized by {{tl|in-universe}}. As for the templates themselves, the project banner and the in-universe template work independently of each other; both can add to the category. If the parameter is set in the banner ''and'' the page is tagged with {{tl|comics-in-universe}}, the article ''and'' its talk page will end up in the category. As a rule, I avoid doing this. The creator of the comics-specific in-universe may not have been aware of that aspect of the project banner. --[[User:GentlemanGhost|GentlemanGhost]] 05:53, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
*'''Keep''' or '''consolidate'''. One-size-fits-all generic templates can look silly and unprofessional on a specialised page. Having a different form for each specialty reduces ambiguity as well. [[User:Bellito|Bellito, master of all things Mac-related]] 21:53, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
*'''Keep''' - The arguments for deletion seem to be weak. -[[User:Dark Dragon Flame|<big>'''凶'''</big>]] 22:09, 19 June 2007 (UTC)
*'''Keep''' or '''consolidate'''. I would have done the parameterization myself if the template wasn't locked.
**I also like the '''meta-template''' idea. [[User:CyberSkull|Dread Lord CyberSkull]] [[User talk:CyberSkull|✎☠]] 05:18, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
*'''Keep'''. Just saw the television one for the first time tonight, and these all seem like useful cleanup tags and corresponding categories. -- <span style="font-family:Palatino Linotype">[[User talk:Satori Son|<b>Satori Son</b>]]</span> 06:58, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' or '''Consolidate'''. The note itself is useful, having separate templates for needless specificity is not. "this page describes a work of fiction in primarily in-universe style" gets the point across every bit as well, at 1/4 the clutter. [[User:ShaleZero|ShaleZero]] 07:58, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
*'''Delete and/or Merge/Consolidate''' There are simply too many of variations that are all redundant. These could simply be consolidated into one template that notes that a work of fiction (movies, books, games and so on are all recognized as fiction) is being described in an overly in-universe manner.--<small>[[User:Oni Ookami Alfador|<span style="color:midnightblue;">Oni Ookami Alfador</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:Oni Ookami Alfador|Talk]]|[[Special:Emailuser/Oni Ookami Alfador|@]]</sup></small> 17:10, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
*'''Provisional Keep'''- assuming unless all these can be lumped together like <nowiki>{{in-universe|video games}}</nowiki>, all serve a useful purpose, especially for categorization. [[User:David Fuchs|David Fuchs]] 18:49, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
*'''Delete'''. The in-universe tag is silly as it is, having a ton of copies of it for each individual subject is equally silly. [[User:Scumbag|Scumbag]] 20:24, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
:*The only way you could've gotten closer to [[WP:IDONTLIKEIT]] is if you actually said "I don't like it". There needs to be a basis for the argument, not just "[it's] silly". --[[User:Teggles|Teggles]] 04:48, 21 June 2007 (UTC)
:''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>
==== [[Template:PromPeruImages]] ====
<div class="boilerplate vfd" style="background-color: #e3f9df; padding: 0 10px 0 10px; border: 1px solid #AAAAAA;">
:''The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this page. ''
The result of the debate was {{{1|}}} '''delete'''. [[User:Woohookitty|''Woohookitty'']]<sup>[[User talk:Woohookitty|Woohoo!]]</sup> 07:42, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
:{{lt|PromPeruImages}}
Was deleted as being permission for Wikipedia only on commons ([[commons:Commons:Deletion_requests/Template:PromPer%C3%BA]]) and so all of these are replacable non-free images. Delete them all. [[User:Kotepho|Kotepho]] 16:39, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
* All the image should be gone soon, as I tagged them with {{tl|db-noncom}} (they were uploaded after the cut-off date). That said, most of the images were definitely replaceable, and if that is but a sample of the images from the website, then I say '''delete''' this template. --[[User talk:Iamunknown|Iamunknown]] 19:26, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
**I changed two of them to {{tl|PD-art}} since they are pictures of a decorated wall. -[[:User:
*** Hmm, I disagree, but whether or not they are covered under Bridgeman is debatable, and so a speedy delete is inappropriate (good catch). --[[User talk:Iamunknown|Iamunknown]] 02:53, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' non free license. -[[:User:
*Look at [[:es:Wikipedia:Autorización para insertar material de PROMPERU con Copyright]] ... my Spanish is not up to par, but it appears to give authorization to reproduce material as long as the source is mentioned. It does not, however, authorize reproduction, commercial reuse, derivative works, etc. Hmm... --[[User talk:Iamunknown|Iamunknown]] 22:01, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
**Almost, but not quite... the associated template [http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plantilla:PromPer%C3%BA] is marked historical and the talk page says the license cannot be used because it is Wikipedia-only. -[[:User:Nard the Bard|N]] 16:48, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' peruvians special images shouldn't have their own license-tempalte--'''''[[User:Andersmusician|<span style="color:green;">Andersmusician</span>]] [[user_talk:Andersmusician|<span style="font-size:medium; color:red;">$</span>]]''''' 03:53, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
*:That's not a valid deletion reason. If images are available under a special license, assuming it's free enough, a special template for that license is appropriate. -[[:User:Nard the Bard|N]] 16:28, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
*::yeah, but these are replaeceable fair use, aren't they? --'''''[[User:Andersmusician|<span style="color:green;">Andersmusician</span>]] [[user_talk:Andersmusician|<span style="font-size:medium; color:red;">$</span>]]''''' 16:44, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
*:::Ah, I misunderstood you. -[[:User:Nard the Bard|N]] 16:48, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
:''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>
==== AfD voting templates ====
<div class="boilerplate
:''The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this page. ''
Line 161 ⟶ 260:
*:'Twas meant to be one nom, but I didn't realise that tfd-inline had two parameters. --[[User:ais523|ais523]] 16:50, 5 June 2007 ([[User:ais523|U]][[User talk:ais523|T]][[Special:Contributions/Ais523|C]])
*'''Comment''' There were templates {{tl|good}} and {{tl|bad}} deleted at TfD previously, but they had different content and were designed for a different purpose, so the previous TfD is not relevant. --[[User:ais523|ais523]] 17:06, 5 June 2007 ([[User:ais523|U]][[User talk:ais523|T]][[Special:Contributions/Ais523|C]])
*'''Keep''' As creator of two of them, you forgot to add ''noinclude'' tags on to the templates, this means the deletion tag transcluded onto hundreds of pages. <
*:What reason you do you think they should be kept other then [[WP:ILIKEIT]] or [[WP:ICREATEDIT]]? --'''[[User:TheFarix|Farix]]''' ([[User talk:TheFarix|Talk]]) 18:00, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
*:: They make it easier at first glance to see what people think, by the way [[WP:ICREATEDIT]] never existed. <
*'''Delete all''': No point to these, an induces unnecessary load to boot. --[[User:Durin|Durin]] 17:58, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
::Someone introduced the tick and the cross to the start of correct and incorrect examples in the Manual of Style. People seem to like them. Does this mean that we'll lose them? [[User:Tony1|Tony]] 02:41, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
::: That was me and their use in the MoS (and perhaps other help pages) was my only intent. Due to the file names I thought they were (intended to be) used in voting, too. I did not know that icons in votes are deprecated. The speedy deletion was precipitate in my opinion. [[User:Crissov|Christoph Päper]] 17:10, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
:''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>
==== [[Template:Trainweb]] ====
<div class="boilerplate vfd" style="background-color: #e3f9df; padding: 0 10px 0 10px; border: 1px solid #AAAAAA;">
:''The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this page. ''
The result of the debate was {{{1|}}} '''deletion,''' after retagging. [[User:RyanGerbil10|RyanGerbil10]]<small>[[User_talk:RyanGerbil10|(Don't ask 'bout Camden)]]</small> 04:22, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
:{{lt|Trainweb}}
The images of this site are either under [http://www.trainweb.com/photos/photohdr.htm these terms] or CC-sampling+. Neither of these constitute an acceptable free license for Wikipedia. CC-sampling+ allows you to "Re-creativity" a work (sample, mashup, etc) a work and only copy in a non-"Re-creavitity" manner for non-commercial purposes. The other license limits the reproduction to websites or print media (a Wikipedia CD would not seem to be included) and does not explicitly allow for derivative works or commercial use (both of which are required for this to considered a free license for Wikipedia). Since all of these are non-free and all of them are replacable as far as I can tell this template serves no purpose and should be deleted along with any of the images using it. [[User:Kotepho|Kotepho]] 16:16, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
*Agree with Kotepho. This is not a legitimate license. Any works from this site would have to qualify under fair use. --[[User:Durin|Durin]] 17:57, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
*Comment: Notification left on [[Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Trains]]. [[User:Slambo|Slambo]] [[User talk:Slambo|<small
**Further comment: I've taken a quick review of many images that currently use this tag. While many of them are replaceable, there are some that depict railroad operations that are not reproducible and therefore not easily replaceable (i.e. [[:Image:UP City of Las Vegas 1957.jpg]] and [[:Image:PicGN1324c.jpg]]). At TWP, we are working to update all of the images currently marked with fair use tags, and those with this tag are currently under discussion at the project talk page. [[User:Slambo|Slambo]] [[User talk:Slambo|<small
* Yup, I agree that this is non-free and would prefer it be deleted. I do also, however, support the Trains WikiProject's effort to identify irreplaceable images tagged with this tag and retag them with a [[Wikipedia:Image copyright tags/Non-free content|non-free image copyright tag]], fair use rationale and source. Other images with this template should afterwards be deleted (via the appropriate venue). --[[User talk:Iamunknown|Iamunknown]] 19:24, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
*'''Keep''' for now until Train project finishes retagging irreplaceable images. Keep this TfD as well until project finishes retagging images. [[User:Pedant|User:Pedant]] 05:48, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' as invalid image tag, ''but'' not before all occurrences are accounted for. [[User:81.104.175.145|81.104.175.145]] 13:05, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
:''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>
==== [[Template:AMA]] ====
<div class="boilerplate vfd" style="background-color: #e3f9df; padding: 0 10px 0 10px; border: 1px solid #AAAAAA;">
:''The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this page. ''
The result of the debate was {{{1|}}} '''delete'''. [[User:Woohookitty|''Woohookitty'']]<sup>[[User talk:Woohookitty|Woohoo!]]</sup> 07:43, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
:{{lt|AMA}}
Template is a part of a now inactive project. All the links contained within have been redirected. —
*'''Delete''', <span style="color:red;font-weight:bold">^</span>[[User:^demon|<span style="color:black;font-weight:bold;">demon</span>]]<sup>[[User_talk:^demon|<span style="color:red">[omg plz]</span>]]</sup> <em style="font-size:10px;">00:16, 6 June 2007 (UTC)</em>
*'''Delete''' --[[User talk:Iamunknown|Iamunknown]] 19:29, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' The writing was on the wall even when I was still active there. I never thought it'd actually shut down though. -[[User:Royalguard11|Royalguard11]]<small>([[User talk:Royalguard11|Talk]]·[[User:Royalguard11/ER|Review Me!]])</small> 17:05, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
'''Keep and mark Historical''' at one point this project didn't suck. Helping others resolve issues without escalation still doesn't suck. [[User:Pedant|User:Pedant]] 05:43, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
:''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>
==== Creative Commons non-commercial licenses ====
<div class="boilerplate vfd" style="background-color: #e3f9df; padding: 0 10px 0 10px; border: 1px solid #AAAAAA;">
:''The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this page. ''
The result of the debate was '''keep'''. [[User:Can't sleep, clown will eat me|Can't sleep, clown will eat me]] 04:32, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
:{{lt|MultiLicenseWithCC-ByNCSA}}, {{lt|MultiLicenceWithCC-ByNCSA-IntEng}}
[http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikien-l/2005-May/023760.html Wikipedia has shown no support for non-commercial material on the site since May 2005]. See also [[Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2007 June 4#Category:Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike 2.0 Dual License|this related CFD]]. --S[[WP:EL|l]][[WP:GA|<
*'''Keep''', GFDL or CC-SA content cannot be reused in a CC-NC-SA licensed project. This multi-license makes such usage possible. [[User:Night Gyr|Night Gyr]] ([[User talk:Night Gyr|talk]]/[[User:Night Gyr/Over|Oy]]) 20:48, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
*'''Keep'''. As long as the GFDL is among the acceptable licenses, it's acceptable for Wikipedia. This simply means that the user doesn't want their work distributed under the more lax conditions of CC licensing in commercial works, but allows commercial use only if the stricter attribution requirements of the GFDL are followed. [[User:Krimpet|Krimpet]] ([[User talk:Krimpet|talk]]) 00:48, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
* Reluctant '''keep''', I would prefer no one multi-license their contributions under a non-commercial license, but inasmuch as multi-licensing is acceptable it is acceptable. --[[User talk:Iamunknown|Iamunknown]] 19:29, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
*'''Keep''', the editors to an article with this on their user pages don't need to be contacted by NC projects for reuse. -- [[User:Jeandré du Toit|Jeandré]], 2007-06-06[[User talk:Jeandré du Toit|t]]20:13z
*'''Keep''' CC licenses are incompatible with GFDL, a valid multi-license is acceptable as long as at least one of them is free. -[[:User:Nard the Bard|N]] 16:30, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
:''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>
==== Middle-earth maintenance templates ====
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:''The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this page. ''
The result of the debate was {{{1|}}} '''keep'''. [[User:Woohookitty|''Woohookitty'']]<sup>[[User talk:Woohookitty|Woohoo!]]</sup> 06:17, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
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:It's not template clutter. Is there a specific WP:Policy for these? [[User:Uthanc|Uthanc]] 03:13, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
*'''Keep''' - useful templates that help organise wikiproject improvement of the encyclopedia. [[User:Carcharoth|Carcharoth]] 17:34, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
*'''Keep''' it seems Tolkiens realm varies from many derivated works, so this would be helpful for readers --'''''[[User:Andersmusician|<span style="color:green;">Andersmusician</span>]] [[user_talk:Andersmusician|<span style="font-size:medium; color:red;">$</span>]]''''' 16:47, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
:*These are tags are to alert editors. Though they are visible to readers as well, they are not really designed to help the readers. Cleaning up the articles and removing the tags would be more helpful to the readers. [[User:Carcharoth|Carcharoth]] 10:11, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
:''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>
==== [[Template:South Asian television channels]] ====
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:''The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this page. ''
The result of the debate was {{{1|}}} '''keep'''. [[User:IronGargoyle|IronGargoyle]] 19:43, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
:{{lt|South Asian television channels}}
'''The template is not helpful or noteworthy (encyclopaedic)'''.<br>Original author went through WP:CSD ([http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:South_Asian_television_channels&diff=prev&oldid=135826928 here]) but due to an [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Reedy_Boy&diff=136009055&oldid=136008546 objection] it was restored by closing admin. It is a collection of TV channels of various different languages from the Indian sub-continent and therefore fails [[WP:NOT#DIRECTORY]] and possible [[WP:NOT#INFO]] → [[User:AA|AA]] <sup>([[User talk:AA|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/AA|contribs]])</sup> — 09:21, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
----
*'''Weak keep''' there's precedence like {{tl|American broadcast television}} and {{tl|French television stations}}. I believe the concept of it qualifies for a nav box. However, I see no reason to lump India, Pakistan, and Bangladesh together. --[[User:Chochopk|ChoChoPK]] (球球PK) ([[User talk:Chochopk|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Chochopk|contrib]]) 10:38, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
::'''Comment''': Agree that a template per language would be useful as a nav box. → [[User:AA|AA]] <sup>([[User talk:AA|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/AA|contribs]])</sup> — 20:38, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
*'''Keep''' per above. It should be split into separate templates and could be better organized, but it is useful. --[[User:Musicpvm|musicpvm]] 05:50, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
*'''Keep''' per above. --[[User:Lahiru_k|<span style="color:blue;">'''♪♫ ĽąĦĩŘǔ ♫♪'''</span>]] [[User talk:Lahiru_k|<span style="color:blue;"><sup>walkie-talkie</sup></span>]] 11:54, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
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==== [[Template:Aliens]] ====
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:''The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this page. ''
The result of the debate was {{{1|}}} '''speedy delete''', complete nonsense. [[User:Kusma|Kusma]] ([[User talk:Kusma|talk]]) 11:45, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
:{{lt|Aliens}}
Unhelpful, unencylopedic nonsense being spammed onto [[Special:Contributions/125.238.95.32|several articles]]. '''[[User:Riana|Riana]]''' [[User talk:Riana|<
:''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>
==== [[Template:NYC bus]] ====
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:''The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this page. ''
The result of the debate was {{{1|}}} '''delete all'''. [[User:IronGargoyle|IronGargoyle]] 19:38, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
:{{lt|NYC bus}}
:{{lt|NYCT M3 bus}}
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*'''Oppose''' Already have a template that has the same content as these templates have. We are not in need of all of these.--[[User:Sir james paul|James, La gloria è a dio]] 13:39, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
**Oppose deletion? Your comment seems to say these templates should be deleted. [[User:Tinlinkin|Tinlinkin]] 15:14, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
***'''Comment''' I think he means oppose the keeping of this article.
*'''Keep'''. I don't see anything wrong with including as much information as possible about the station, particularly the bus line data. The bus templates saved entering a lot of information when buses were incorporated into articles, and are quite invaluable across New York City Transit related articles. Further, I don't think it's appropriate to go through and substitute the templates before the article is deleted. [[User:Alphachimp|<span style="color:MidnightBlue">'''alphachimp'''</span>]] 17:19, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
**With all due respect, the elaborate bus line data (destinations and routes) is most relevant for bus lines, and only tangential (almost irrelevant) for an article about a subway station. See [[Talk:Jamaica Center-Parsons/Archer (New York City Subway)#Bus connections]] when I first noticed that the big list of bus connections took up more space than the prose before it ([http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Jamaica_Center-Parsons%2FArcher_%28New_York_City_Subway%29&diff=131140344&oldid=118165185 this version]). To me, the bus info creeps up against [[WP:NOT#INFO|WP:NOT a travel guide]]; imagine if the templates were applied to [[Port Authority Bus Terminal]]. [[User:Tinlinkin|Tinlinkin]] 21:17, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' Keeping the same exhaustive data duplicated in many places will lead to maintenance problem. What if a bus route changes? Then all stations that connects to that bus routes needs to be updated. What about using templates to keep the date in one place? Then you need one template per bus route.
:In addition, I'd like to invite everyone to generalize and think like an engineer: If you have an object of type 1 (e.g. subway station), which is related to several objects of type 2 (e.g. bus routes), which then in turn has a few attributes (e.g. terminal destinations), does it make sense on Wikipedia to lists all the attributes of objects of type 2 under the articles of objects of type 1? IMHO, no. It would be like an airport article listing all airlines that is hosts, plus all the destinations of each of the airlines. --[[User:Chochopk|ChoChoPK]] (球球PK) ([[User talk:Chochopk|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Chochopk|contrib]]) 11:07, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
:''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>
==== [[Template:NYSubway1]] ====
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:''The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this page. ''
The result of the debate was '''delete'''. [[User:Can't sleep, clown will eat me|Can't sleep, clown will eat me]] 04:33, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
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:{{lt|NYSubway2}}
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*'''Delete''' per nom. [[User:Marc Shepherd|Marc Shepherd]] 12:19, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' - Per nom. --'''<
* '''Delete'''. The templates won't be of much help, and will just clutter up article space, especially in large station complexes. –[[User:{{{User|Imdanumber1}}}|{{{User|Imdanumber1}}}]] ([[User talk:{{{User|Imdanumber1}}}|talk]] <small>•</small> [[Special:Contributions/{{{User|Imdanumber1}}}|contribs]] <small>•</small> [[Special:Emailuser/{{{User|Imdanumber1}}}|email]]) 01:02, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
* '''Delete''' if this is the consensus of the project and the templates are not used. --[[User:Chochopk|ChoChoPK]] (球球PK) ([[User talk:Chochopk|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Chochopk|contrib]]) 11:07, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' per nom. [[User:MJCdetroit|MJCdetroit]] 16:35, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
:''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>
==== [[Template:Tempfull]] ====
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:''The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this page. ''
The result of the debate was {{{1|}}} '''delete'''. [[User:Woohookitty|''Woohookitty'']]<sup>[[User talk:Woohookitty|Woohoo!]]</sup> 10:06, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
:{{lt|Tempfull}}
:{{lt|Tf3}}
These templates were used to help construct the tables used in [[Wikipedia:WikiProject New York City Public Transportation/New York City Subway/Lines]]. All table syntax is now inline and the templates are unused. [[User:Tinlinkin|Tinlinkin]] 03:56, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
* '''Delete tf3''' Tf3 looks like a helper template that is project specific. Tempfull could be an extension of {{tl|tl}}, which may be used in other projects. --[[User:Chochopk|ChoChoPK]] (球球PK) ([[User talk:Chochopk|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Chochopk|contrib]]) 11:20, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
:''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>
====Template:ME-canonstart and Template:ME-canonend====
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:''The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this page. ''
The result of the debate was '''delete'''. [[User:Can't sleep, clown will eat me|Can't sleep, clown will eat me]] 04:45, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
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*::::You shouldn't even say what fan's consider to be cannon. Just describe the contradictions and let the reader decide which is cannon. --'''[[User:TheFarix|Farix]]''' ([[User talk:TheFarix|Talk]]) 00:22, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' - unwieldy and not useful. Artificially segregates content into sections within an article, when each case should be described individually. [[User:Carcharoth|Carcharoth]] 16:42, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
:''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>
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