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== Language on ID ==
The section on Intelligent Design reads, "The movement for intelligent design claims that an intelligent creator is responsible for the origin of life and of humankind. Its proponents claim..."
Could you change the verb 'claims' and 'claim' in these two instances to something which sounds less patronizing, such as 'posits', 'proposes' or 'theorizes'. The use of the word 'claims' in the kind of divisive world we have today recalls a tinpot dictator claiming an occupied territory as his own. Part of the disputed neutrality of this article may well arise out of such use of language.
== Just a small word about Creation and evolution ==
Dear Sirs = I wonder who wrote the article named " The Evolution and Creation Controversy " Whoever tha author is/are He is a washed brain person, secularism dominat person.
I just want to ask something : Who do You lean on ? Somebody's writtings, somebody's opinion, Bible is clear and states that It is God's Word. whether someone wants or NOT.
The author does not know God or His Word, the author is just a braber and rely on someone's shoulders. The point is some people don't know God and are led by self-explanations.
They are not familiar with the Bible and misinterprete a lot.
I just wanna conclude this with some Bible statements:
a) Bible is God's Word, no matter If someone agrees or not.
People believe in every news they watch in TV, read about and no question are made.
However, when the subject is God, they want evidences.
The major evidence is Isreal, She is rigth there
We are not here to prove God's Word are true, we are saved to proclaim it.
Whoever proclaims it, know it is the Truth.
b) Isaiah The prophet states the Earth is round ( since long long ago )
Job's book states the Earth turns itself in emptyness
Jesus talked about the Earth explosion when Lucifer was cast into Earth.
The major pont is this: People believe there's a God, the only problem is this :
They don't believe what He says.
To conclude: Bible states the following : In Him ( Jesus ) is hidden all treasures
of Science, knowledge and wisdon. The the time be expired, we all know the truth.
Bible states that every knee shall bow and every tongue will confess, it includes
me, you,science, everything and everybody, wheather they wants or not. See'ya
a==Reducing or removing the Slifkin controversy==
The extensive mention of two incidents that will - with the hindsight of history - probably not be more than a ripple prompted me to remove the whole lot. Much is hearsay, and in the Slifkin controversy there are so many different versions that we cannot pretend we know the full truth. Knowing Slifkin personally I am inclined to believe [http://zootorah.com/controversy/controversy.html his version] of the facts.
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==Kabbalistic and Rabbinic views on Creation==
(I am wondering why this text is here, rather than in the article itself. If the author doesn't speak up soon, I'll take the liberty myself. By the way, I'm the author of the SCJ FAQ quote (below); current estimates are converging on an age lower than 15.8 bn years, and an inclusion should omit that bit. [[User:Michab|micha]] ([[User talk:Michab|talk]]) 15:20, 22 October 2014 (UTC))
===Kabbalah===
Rabbi [[Aryeh Kaplan]] writes about the little known view of Kabbalists about the creation of the world and the evolution of life on Earth. He notes that the ''Tiferes Yisrael'' (Rabbi
The Soc.Culture.Jewish FAQ very briefly describes more of Aryeh Kaplan's summary:
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: Nosson is Yiddish for Natan (Hebrew), or Nathan in English. --[[User:Metzenberg|Metzenberg]] 07:35, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
He calls himself Natan (Israeli or Sepharadi accent) when you speak to him in person [[User:Michab|micha]] ([[User talk:Michab|talk]]) 18:20, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
== Vote ==
Please see [[talk:Creation_according_to_Genesis#Proposing_split|this]]. [[User:Ems2|ems <
==Haredi and other traditional views==
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::::Well, you're wrong. Trying to inject your bias into the comments. One is about science--Evolution. Intelligent design is pseudoscience. Please get your facts right. [[User:Orangemarlin|Orangemarlin]] 03:48, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
<P> Another excellent source is Mendel Kasher's article in Talpiot (the YU journal). (I'm afraid I don't remember exactly which issue) explaining exactly how the idea of evolution can be explained according to Jewish sources. Hopefully someone less lazy than I can fit it in.
:: Please read it and come back and write about it. I think his articles are published under his Hebrew name [[Menachem Kasher|''Menachem'' Kasher]]. While you are at it, check out [[Richard Sternberg]]. The appropriate weight in this article I think is about one paragraph for each of these commentators, with a wikilink off to more detailed information. --[[User:Metzenberg|Metzenberg]] 07:18, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
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I would just like to say that I came across this article after watching a film called "Flock of Dodos", which tried to present the two sides of the Intellegent design debate. I found it interesting that in the discussion, Jewish thought was completely absent. I find myself feeling very proud (hopefully not too self righteously so) that according to the compilation in this article, the discussion is actually extremely vibrant in all circles of Judaism, without needing to pander to either of the two sides of the conventional debate. From the earliest writings on Jewish philosophy, like the midrashim and gemara, to mideval thinkers like Rambam and Ramban, and even into the twentieth century, the Jewish approach has been so catagorically different than the fundamentalist Christian approach that we can safely and courageously separate ourselves from such a polarized discusson. It seems that the main difference is that Jewish thinkers have almost always been searchers. Seeking for the truth through whatever media was available. As opposed to the modern Christian right, Jewish thinkers do not try to push old ideas on a modern world like the proverbial circle in the square. Instead, these philosophers, far closer in approach to scientists, take the information they are faced with and try to emerge with a truth that that does not need to shun either empirical evidence or traditional belief. And it is incredible how progressive ideas can be when truth is the main goal. Which brings me to the fear I have for modern orthodoxy: If we some how find ourselves stuck in this debate and instead of having faith in the truth and the truth of our faith, we somehow insist on cementing ourselves in the truth we think we know right now, we will be simply paving the way for destroying Judaism through stagnation. Had the Rabbis of the Gemara and the middle ages stopped where they began, they would never have come in touch with ideas that are now being discovered scientifically. We need to be courageous enough to believe that our Torah can withstand the tests of time and discovery and not be threatened by any new discoveries about a complex world that is still being uncovered. [[User:24.46.72.210|24.46.72.210]] 16:27, 27 May 2007 (UTC) Rothschild
== Citing [[Rambam]] ==
Shalom. Under 'medieval rabbinic teachings', it claims that Maimonides wrote that if Science and Torah were misaligned ... I've tried quite hard to locate the origin of the writing / commentary, but succeeded not. The editor of this part didn't indicate any reference to this meaningful interpretation, or maybe a real quotation. I'll be happy to be helped here.[[User:BentzyCo|BentzyCo]] 07:40, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
==Fair use rationale for Image:Slifkin creation.jpg==
[[Image:Nuvola apps important.svg|70px|left]]
'''[[:Image:Slifkin creation.jpg]]''' is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under [[Wikipedia:Fair use|fair use]] but there is no [[Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline|explanation or rationale]] as to why its use in '''this''' Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the [[Wikipedia:Image copyright tags/Fair use|boilerplate fair use template]], you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with [[WP:FU|fair use]].
Please go to [[:Image:Slifkin creation.jpg|the image description page]] and edit it to include a [[Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline |fair use rationale]]. Using one of the templates at [[Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline]] is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on [[Wikipedia:Criteria for speedy deletion#Images.2FMedia|criteria for speedy deletion]]. If you have any questions please ask them at the [[Wikipedia:Media copyright questions|Media copyright questions page]]. Thank you.<!-- Template:Missing rationale2 -->
[[User:BetacommandBot|BetacommandBot]] 11:29, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
== Rabbi Aryeh Kaplan ==
The article refers to Rabbi [[Aryeh Kaplan]](zt"l) in the present tense. He died over twenty years ago. [[User:Grimlock613|Grimlock613]] 14:24, 18 October 2007 (UTC)
== Modified tenses in article ==
I modified the tenses in certain parts of the article, to reflect that certain rabbis whose views are cited have been dead for some time (in the case of Rabbi [[Zvi Hirsch Chajes]] since the mid 19th century.) I also added the dates for the rabbis in question where I was able to find them. [[User:Grimlock613|Grimlock613]] 14:42, 18 October 2007 (UTC)
== Spelling Mistake ==
Shouldn't the spelling "bilbical" which occurs several times in the article be "biblical"?
by cantbebotheredtosignin <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/81.57.227.118|81.57.227.118]] ([[User talk:81.57.227.118|talk]]) 16:31, 7 December 2007 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
== anecdote ==
Should we also add a blurb about [[Isaac_of_Acco|Yitzhak ben Shmuel of Akko's]] estimation of the age of the universe as 15 billion years? Would probably be more relevant in an article about Judaism and Science but it does fit in here somewhat, he cites one of the quotes in this article as a source for that, and there's another mention of "billions of years". [[Special:Contributions/216.15.63.39|216.15.63.39]] ([[User talk:216.15.63.39|talk]]) 18:03, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
== Citing [[Rambam]] - repeated ==
Shalom. Under 'medieval rabbinic teachings', it claims that Maimonides wrote that if Science and Torah were misaligned ... I've tried quite hard to locate the origin of the writing / commentary, but succeeded not. The editor of this part didn't indicate any reference to this meaningful interpretation, or maybe a real quotation. I'll be happy to be helped here. [[User:BentzyCo|BentzyCo]] ([[User talk:BentzyCo|talk]]) 17:04, 1 March 2008 (UTC)
::It's o.k. already by now, assisted by [[User:Jon513|Jon513]]. It's in [[The Guide for the Perplexed]], book 2, chap 25. [[User:BentzyCo|BentzyCo]] ([[User talk:BentzyCo|talk]]) 09:44, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
== on Rambam and Ramban==
The section on Maimonides and Nahmanides is filled with OR and irrelevancy. It says that Maimonides interprets the account of creation non-literally, as if to imply that he accepts darwin's idea of evolution. This is nonsense in the Guide 2:17, it speaks about CERTAIN THINGS in the account of creation as not being literal and that's explained elsewhere--in fact, in 2:30. See there, and you'll see that Maimonides just clarifies that certain aspects of the story shouldn't be interpreted literally, but the rest he interprets totally literally. He certainly doesn't subscribe to evolution. As for Nachmanides, 1. no source is mentioned for the claim that he interprets non-literally; 2. it's not enough to say that he offers a non-literal interpretation, because that's nothing new; many kabbalistic commentaries do so, but not because they reject the [[pshat]], but rather because they're explaining it on a deeper level. As for Rabbi Isaac of Akko, he again said things in a kabbalistic context, so that doesn't prove that he rejected the pshat. That makes the quote from him also unacceptable OR. And the claim that "A literal interpretation of the biblical Creation story among classic rabbinic commentators is uncommon" is both absurd and OR. So unless anyone has any objections, I will remove this section.--[[User:Yehoishophot Oliver|Yehoishophot Oliver]] ([[User talk:Yehoishophot Oliver|talk]]) 06:17, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
== some Haredi rabbis have remained staunchly opposed ==
That should be changed to the consensus of Haredi Rabbis. The Slifkin affair has basically demonstrated that by definition a Haredi is opposed to Evolution. --[[User:Ezra Wax|Ezra Wax]] ([[User talk:Ezra Wax|talk]]) 21:37, 22 July 2008 (UTC)
== Avigdor Miller ==
This page is incomplete without at least one mention of [[Avigdor Miller]]. In his works he repeatedly provides arguments against random evolution and in favour of divine creation. His parallel (and related) writings on "the marvels of the Creator" (''niflaos ha-Borei'') has spawned an entire inspirational literature examining unusual natural phenomena. Most of the authors credit Miller for the method. An example is Tuvia Cohen (pseudonym of Avraham Katz). [[User:Jfdwolff|JFW]] | [[User_talk:Jfdwolff|<small>T@lk</small>]] 10:04, 9 January 2011 (UTC)
== Cites Needed — Isaac of Akko and Bahya ben Asher ==
Isaac of Akko's assertion comes from his "The Trove of Life" in which he states that man was created in the 42,000th divine year, with each divine year being a thousand times longer (id est, each day of the year was a thousand years, or 365,250 normal years according to the then current understanding of a year being 365 and a quarter days long — close, but not quite accurate). This lead Isaac to believe that man was created 15,340,500,000 years after the beginning of the Universe.<p>
Bahya's commentary on the Torah is "Be'ur 'al ha-Torah" ("Commentary on the Torah") written 1291.<br>— [[User:Imeriki al-Shimoni|<span style="color:#60d;font-weight:bold;text-shadow:3px 3px 2px #aaa;">al-Shimoni</span>]] ([[User talk:Imeriki al-Shimoni|talk]]) 17:41, 23 December 2011 (UTC)
== Source for Chabad ==
http://www.chabadnews.us/Old%20Letters/RA000014.htm
[[User:Unchartered|Unchartered]] ([[User talk:Unchartered|talk]]) 12:50, 27 November 2012 (UTC)
== Midrash and Kabbalah capitalization ==
The capitalization of Midrash and Kabbalistic are currently inconsistent in the article. Should they be upper-case or lower-case? --[[User:Amble|Amble]] ([[User talk:Amble|talk]]) 01:14, 12 November 2015 (UTC)
== External links modified ==
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== Entire "Moshe Feinstein" section is very problematic ==
I move to delete the entire "Moshe Feinstein" section and associated "Responses to Feinstein's ban" section.
Here are the problems I see in this section:
* R' Feinstein is described as "known for his opposition to evolution" without a citation to back this assertion up. I had never heard of this being something he's particularly known for. His [[Moshe_Feinstein|WP entry]] says nothing about it.
* R' Feinstein's position regarding evolution is established on the basis of a citation of ''Iggorot Moshe, Yoreh De'ah'' 3:73, with the claim: "Rabbi Feinstein ruled that the reading of an evolutionary textbook is unequivocally forbidden, because belief in evolutionary history is tantamount to apikorsus (Hebrew, heresy)." This claim is entirely unsupported by the [http://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=920&st=&pgnum=326 cited responsum]. In fact, the portion of that responsum dealing with textbooks is a single-paragraph mini-responsum which does not mention evolution at all or equate it to heresy. The entire text of the mini-responsum, in my translation, is below. Using this to establish a position regarding evolution, ''per se'', is untenable.
"And secular-studies books that have in them matters of denial regarding the creation of the world are certainly books of heresy from which it is forbidden to study. And it's necessary to ensure that secular studies teachers don't teach from them to their students. And if it is impossible to procure other books, it's necessary to tear those pages out of the textbooks."
* R' Feinstein's position is expanded by quoting an argument by R' Avi Shafran in a cited blog post. That blog post does not mention R' Feinstein at all or claim to be establishing or interpreting his position.
* The "Responses to Feinstein's ban" section is entirely based on a newsletter article that's hard to consider notable in its own right in the world of Jewish ideas. The citation to that article consists solely of a link which is currently broken, so it's impossible to verify the content of the original article, anyway.
[[User:MOE37x3|MOE37x3]] ([[User talk:MOE37x3|talk]]) 21:20, 7 July 2016 (UTC)
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== Theory of evolution is a basis for Racial theory. Yes or no? ==
So? [[Special:Contributions/95.168.107.5|95.168.107.5]] ([[User talk:95.168.107.5|talk]]) 07:14, 10 November 2022 (UTC)
:This page is for improving the article about Jewish views on evolution, not about discussions of where the ideas of racist shitheads come from. --[[User:Hob Gadling|Hob Gadling]] ([[User talk:Hob Gadling|talk]]) 10:22, 10 November 2022 (UTC)
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