Wikipedia:Templates for discussion: Difference between revisions

Revision as of 15:24, 23 May 2005

Latest revision as of 17:26, 3 February 2025

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{{Short description|Page for discussing mergers and deletions of templates}}

{{Shortcut|[[WP:TFD]]}}

{{Redirect|WP:TFD|the page used for TimedText or talk page deletion discussions|Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion}}

{{deletiontools}}

{{About|discussion of templates|a list of templates used for discussion|Wikipedia:List of discussion templates}}

This page is for deleting things in the [[Wikipedia:Template namespace|Template namespace]], which is used for reusable boilerplate messages and article series boxes. Deletion of these may be appropriate if the template:

{{pp-move-indef}}

{{#ifexpr:{{#invoke:XfD old|total|title=Wikipedia:Templates for discussion}}>10|{{Admin backlog|bot=AnomieBOT}}}}

{{offer help}}

{{floating link|Closing instructions}}

<div class="tfd-header">

{{Ombox

| style = text-align: center

| type = notice

| image = none

| text = {{hlist|''[[#toc|Skip to table of contents]]''|''[[#Current discussions|Skip to current discussions]]''|''{{Purge|Purge this page}}''}}<inputbox>

type=fulltext

prefix=Wikipedia:Templates for d

break=no

width=50

placeholder=Enter &#x5b;&#x5b;Template:Example&#x5d;&#x5d; to find a discussion

searchbuttonlabel=Search archives

</inputbox>

| imageright = {{Shortcut|WP:TFD}}

}}

{{XFD backlog|right}}

{{Deletion debates}}

On this page, the deletion or merging of '''[[Help:Template|templates]]''' and '''[[Wikipedia:Lua|modules]]''', except as noted [[#What not to propose for discussion here|below]], is discussed.

* is not helpful or noteworthy;

{{TOC limit|3}}

* is redundant with other templates

* is unused.

==How to use this page==

For guidelines on acceptable boilerplate messages, see [[Wikipedia:Template namespace]].<br />

===<span id="NOT"></span> What ''not'' to propose for discussion here===

For guidelines on acceptable article series boxes, see [[Wikipedia:Categories, lists, and series boxes]].

{{shortcut|WP:TFD#NOT}}

The majority of deletion and merger proposals concerning pages in the [[WP:Template namespace|template namespace]] and [[WP:Lua|module namespace]] should be listed on this page. However, there are a few exceptions:

; Stub templates

If you vote, please ''give a reason'' how it either does or does not fulfill these criteria. Comments such as "I like it," or "I find it useful," while potentially true, generally do not fulfill this requirement. It also helps if you '''Bold''' your vote.

: Stub templates and categories should be listed at [[WP:CFD|Categories for discussion]], as these templates are merely containers for their categories, ''unless'' the stub template does not come with a category and is being nominated by itself.

; Userboxes

: Userboxes should be listed at [[WP:MFD|Miscellany for deletion]], regardless of the namespace in which they reside.

; Speedy deletion candidates

: If the template clearly satisfies a [[WP:CSD|criterion for speedy deletion]], tag it with a [[:Category:Speedy deletion templates|speedy deletion template]]. For example, if you wrote the template and request its deletion, tag it with {{t|Db-author}}. See also [[WP:T5]].

; Policy or guideline templates

: Templates that are associated with particular [[WP:PAG|Wikipedia policies or guidelines]], such as the [[:Category:Speedy deletion templates|speedy deletion templates]], cannot be listed at TfD separately. They should be discussed on the talk page of the relevant guideline.

; Template redirects

: List at [[WP:RFD|Redirects for discussion]].

; Moving and renaming

: Use [[Wikipedia:Requested moves]].

===<span class="anchor" id="REASONS"></span> Reasons to delete a template===

In addition to voting "'''Keep'''" or "'''Delete'''," a valid vote on this page is "'''Convert to category'''". In this case, all pages with the template should be added to an appropriately named category, and then the template should be deleted. You could also vote to '''Redirect''' to another template (usually more popular or with a better title). Sometimes an opinion will be to keep the template but fix some perceived problems with it, so some people add "'''Rewrite'''" or "'''Retitle'''" to their comments. Also, some people will specify '''Userfy''', which means to move to a User's subpage.

{{shortcut|WP:TFD#REASONS}}

# The template violates some part of the [[WP:TMP|template namespace guidelines]], and can't be altered to be in compliance.

# The template is redundant to a better-designed template.

# The template is not used, either directly or by [[WP:SUBST|template substitution]] (the latter cannot be concluded from the absence of backlinks), {{Strong|and has no likelihood of {{em|being}} used}}.

# The template violates a policy such as [[WP:NPOV|Neutral point of view]] or [[WP:CIVIL|Civility]] and it can't be fixed through normal editing.

Templates listedshould onnot thisbe pagenominated doif notthe needissue tocan be orphansfixed priorby tonormal editing. listingInstead, and in factyou should notedit bethe removedtemplate fromto pagesfix priorits to listingproblems. However,If templatesthe musttemplate beis removedcomplex fromand allyou pagesdon't priorknow how to deletion.fix Currentlyit, this[[WP:WPT|WikiProject canTemplates]] onlymay be doneable to manuallyhelp.

Templates for which none of these apply may be deleted by [[Wikipedia:Consensus|consensus]] here. If a template is being misused, consider clarifying its documentation to indicate the correct use, or informing those that misuse it, rather than nominating it for deletion. Initiate a discussion on the template talk page if the correct use itself is under debate.

'''Marking templates to be voted on:''' Insert the text <nowiki>{{tfd}}</nowiki> to the top of templates you list here. This adds the following message:

===Listing a template===

{{tfd}}

{{shortcut|WP:TFDHOWTO|WP:TFDHOW}}

{{Strong|To list a template for deletion or merging, adhere to the following three-step process.}} Utilizing [[#Twinkle|Twinkle]] is strongly recommended as it automates and simplifies these steps. To use Twinkle, click TW [[File:OOjs UI icon caretDown.svg|15px|link=]] in the toolbar (top right of the page), then select XFD. Do {{em|not}} include the "Template:" prefix in any of the steps, unless specifically instructed otherwise.

{| class="wikitable" style="clear: both;"

|-

! scope="col" | Step

! scope="col" | Instructions

|- id="Step I"

! scope="row" style="background-color: #ffff99;" | I: Tag the template.

| style="padding: 0.5em;" | '''Add one of the following codes to the top of the template page:'''

* For deletion: {{Tlxs|Tfd}}

'''''For clarity, this message should be added inside the box where applicable.''''' When being added to templates which have already been blanked, and are just sitting around as blanks, the message should be added to the template talk page. Again, ''do not blank'' templates to list them here - this is just if the template is already blank when you are listing it.

* For deletion of a sidebar or infobox template: {{Tlxs|Tfd|2=type=sidebar}}

* For deletion of an inline template: {{Tlxs|Tfd|2=type=inline}}

* For deletion of a [[Help:Module|module]]: {{Tlxs|Tfd|2=type=module|3=page={{var|{{Gray|name of module}}}}}} at the top of the module's <code>/doc</code> subpage.

* For merging: {{Tlxs|Tfm|{{var|{{Gray|name of other template}}}}}}

* For merging an inline template: {{Tlxs|Tfm|2=type=inline|3={{var|{{Gray|name of other template to be merged}}}}}}

** Other values for {{para|type}} are available, see {{section link|Template:Template for discussion#Display on articles}}

<hr style=margin-top:1em; margin-bottom:1em;"/>

Templates that have been listed for more than five days are eligible for deletion if either a consensus to do so has been reached or no objections to its deletion have been raised (disputed- see talk). Such templates should be dealt with as soon as possible.

'''Note:'''

Archived discussions are logged per the instructions at [[Wikipedia:Templates for deletion/Log]], and are located at [[/Log/Deleted]] and [[/Log/Not deleted]].

* If it is an inline template, do not add a newline between the TfD notice and the code of the template.

* If the template to be nominated for deletion is [[Wikipedia:Page protection|protected]], make a request for the TfD tag to be added, by posting on the template's talk page and using the {{Tlx|editprotected}} template to catch the attention of [[Wikipedia:Administrators|administrators]] or [[Wikipedia:Template editors|template editors]].

* For templates designed to be [[WP:SUBST|substituted]], add {{tag|noinclude}} around the TfD notice to prevent it from being substituted alongside the template.

* Do not mark the edit as minor.

* Use an edit summary like<br /><code>Nominated for deletion; see <nowiki>[[Wikipedia:Templates for discussion#</nowiki>Template:{{var|{{Gray|name of template}}}}<nowiki>]]</nowiki></code><br /> or <br /><code>Nominated for merging; see <nowiki>[[Wikipedia:Templates for discussion#</nowiki>Template:{{var|{{gray|name of template}}}}<nowiki>]]</nowiki></code>.

* Before saving your edit, preview your edit to ensure the Tfd message is displayed properly.

'''Multiple templates:''' If you are nominating multiple related templates, choose a meaningful title for the discussion (like "[[Wikipedia:Templates for deletion/Log/2008 August 14#American films by decade|American films by decade templates]]"). Tag every template with {{Tlxs|Tfd|2=heading={{var|{{Gray|discussion title}}}}}} or {{Tlxs|Tfm|{{var|{{Gray|name of other template}}}}|3=heading={{var|{{Gray|discussion title}}}}}} instead of the versions given above, replacing <code>{{var|discussion title}}</code> with the title you chose (but still not changing the <code>PAGENAME</code> code).

== Listings ==

Please put new listings under [[#{{CURRENTMONTHNAME}} {{CURRENTDAY}}|today's date]] at the '''''top of the section'''''.

'''Related categories:''' If including template-populated tracking categories in the TfD nomination, add {{Tlx|Catfd|{{var|{{Gray|template name}}}}}} to the top of any categories that would be deleted as a result of the TfD, this time replacing <code>{{var|template name}}</code> with the name of the template being nominated. (If you instead chose a meaningful title for a multiple nomination, use {{Tlx|Catfd|2=header={{var|{{Gray|title of nomination}}}}}} instead.)

===May 23===

====[[Template:Delete]]====

Somewhat redundant. [[Template:Deletebecause]] sounds like a better suggestion, because it makes people cite a reason for wanting something speedied. For the record I first asked this on its talk page, and nobody objected (or indeed responded) to its deletion. I'd support a redirect if people want, though. [[User:Radiant!|R]][[User_talk:Radiant!|adiant]][[meta:mergist|_*]] 13:11, May 23, 2005 (UTC)

'''TemplateStyles pages:''' The above templates will not work on [[WP:TemplateStyles|TemplateStyles]] pages. Instead, add a CSS comment to the top of the page:

* '''keep''' - the burden knowing whether something or deleted or not should be on the admin, who should record that in the deletion log. Some things are such patent nonsense that a reason for deletion doesn't need to be stated. [[User:Duncharris|Dunc]]|[[User talk:duncharris|&#9786;]] 15:16, 23 May 2005 (UTC)

:<code>/* This template is being discussed in accordance with Wikipedia's deletion policy. Help reach a consensus at its entry: <nowiki>https://</nowiki>en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/{{CURRENTYEAR}}_{{CURRENTMONTHNAME}}_{{CURRENTDAY}}#Template:{{var|{{Gray|template_name}}}}.css */</code>

**Ah, but we do have {{tl|nonsense}} as well! [[User:Steinsky|Joe D]] [[User talk:Steinsky|(t)]] 15:24, 23 May 2005 (UTC)

* '''keep''' because it has the most sensible name, '''but''' possibly move either [[Template:Deletebecause]] or [[Template:Nonsense]] here. [[User:Steinsky|Joe D]] [[User talk:Steinsky|(t)]] 15:24, 23 May 2005 (UTC)

|- id="Step II"

====[[Template:Sub-stub]] and [[Template:Substubs]]====

! scope="row" style="background-color: #ffcc00;" | II: List the template at TfD.

Wow...deja vu! These two are currently redirects to [[Template:Stub]], but the first is only used on four articles (soon to be recategorised) and the second isn't used at all. Both invite the risk of someone restoring [[Template:Substub]] - which actually happened (and was speedy-deleted) earlier today. [[User:Grutness|Grutness]]...<font color=green><small>''[[User_talk:Grutness|wha?''</small></font>]] 11:33, 23 May 2005 (UTC)

| style="padding: 0.75em;" | {{Clickable button|Edit today's TfD log|url={{fullurl:Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/{{CURRENTYEAR}} {{CURRENTMONTHNAME}} {{CURRENTDAY}}|action=edit&section=1}}|class=mw-ui-progressive}} and paste the following text '''to the top of the list''':

*'''Delete'''. Deja vu indeed. --[[User:TheParanoidOne|TheParanoidOne]] 12:03, 23 May 2005 (UTC)

*'''D'''. [[User:Steinsky|Joe D]] [[User talk:Steinsky|(t)]] 12:43, 23 May 2005 (UTC)

*'''elete'''. [[User:Radiant!|R]][[User_talk:Radiant!|adiant]][[meta:mergist|_*]] 13:11, May 23, 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete''' [[User:BlankVerse|<font color=green>''Blank''</font><font color= #F88017>''Verse''</font>]]<font color=#2554C7> </font>[[User talk:BlankVerse|<font color=#F660AB>&empty;</font> ]] 13:54, 23 May 2005 (UTC)

*'''Begone''', foul fiend, to the crypt from whence you camest. --<span style="font-family:monospace">&nbsp;[[User:Grm_wnr|grm_wnr]] </span>[[User_talk:Grm_wnr|<span style="border:1px solid;color:black;font-size:9px;padding:2px 1px 0px 1px">Esc</span>]] 14:27, 23 May 2005 (UTC)

* For deletion: {{Tlxs|Tfd2|{{var|{{Gray|template name}}}}|text{{=}}{{var|{{Gray|Why you think the template should be deleted.}}}} <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>}}

====[[Template:Table suffixes]]====

* For merging: {{Tlxs|Tfm2|{{var|{{Gray|template name}}}}|{{var|{{Gray|other template's name}}}}|text{{=}}{{var|{{Gray|Why you think the templates should be merged.}}}} <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>}}

Since it has no meaningful ordering other than alphabetic (nor can I conceive of one) this should be changed to a '''category''' instead. [[User:Radiant!|R]][[User_talk:Radiant!|adiant]][[meta:mergist|_*]] 09:20, May 23, 2005 (UTC)

If the template has had previous TfDs, you can add {{tlx|Oldtfdlist|{{var|{{Gray|previous TfD without brackets}}}}|{{var|{{Gray|result of previous TfD}}}}}} directly after the {{para|text}} before the why (or alternatively, after the <code>}}</code> of the <code>Tfd2/Catfd2</code>).

===May 22===

====[[Template:Intro/1]]====

nonreusable. Should be substituted. Same goes for these templates: {{tl|Intro/unselected}}, {{tl|Intro/selected}}, {{tl|Intro/1}} and {{tl|Intro/2}}, {{tl|Intro/3}}. --[[User:MarSch|MarSch]] 17:12, 22 May 2005 (UTC)

*Would [[Wikipedia:Introduction]] work properly if all of these were substituted? &#8212;[[User:Mirv|Charles&nbsp;P.]][[User talk:Mirv|&nbsp;<small>(Mirv)</small>]] 07:36, 23 May 2005 (UTC)

*The idea is to stop them being accidentally removed. '''Keep'''. [[User:Smoddy|Smoddy]] [[User talk:Smoddy|(Rabbit and pork)]] 09:18, 23 May 2005 (UTC)

*It seems that the sandbox pages use things like [[Template:Please leave this line alone]], which use a ''metatemplate'' such as the above. For the sake of server load, I'd prefer a different solution. '''Merge/subst/whatever but get rid of it''' [[User:Radiant!|R]][[User_talk:Radiant!|adiant]][[meta:mergist|_*]] 10:56, May 23, 2005 (UTC)

**Then find a better solution. It's one thing to yell "find a better solution, find a better solution", but quite another to '''get''' a better solution. [[User:Smoddy|Smoddy]] [[User talk:Smoddy|(Rabbit and pork)]] 10:59, 23 May 2005 (UTC)

***True enough. Okay, I propose to subst everything into three templates with titles like [[Template:Please leave this line alone]]. I also propose to do it myself if this discussion yields concurrence. [[User:Radiant!|R]][[User_talk:Radiant!|adiant]][[meta:mergist|_*]] 11:14, May 23, 2005 (UTC)

****Seems reasonable. I understand now. [[User:Smoddy|Smoddy]] [[User talk:Smoddy|(Rabbit and pork)]] 12:50, 23 May 2005 (UTC)

Use an edit summary such as <br /><code>Adding <nowiki>[[</nowiki>Template:{{var|{{Gray|template name}}}}<nowiki>]]</nowiki></code>.

====[[Template:Vip]]====

copy of {{tl|user}}. Stands for Vandalism in Progress. --[[User:MarSch|MarSch]] 16:43, 22 May 2005 (UTC)

'''Multiple templates:''' If this is a deletion proposal involving multiple templates, use the following:

:As the creator of the template, I don't object to it being deleted. But there are [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Whatlinkshere&target=Template%3AVip quite some pages] where it is used, so that should be cleaned up first. --[[User:ContiE|Conti]]|[[User talk:ContiE|&#9993;]] 23:14, May 22, 2005 (UTC)

*It could be replaced with a redirect. [[User:Radiant!|R]][[User_talk:Radiant!|adiant]][[meta:mergist|_*]] 09:05, May 23, 2005 (UTC)

{{block indent| {{Tlxs|Tfd2|{{var|{{Gray|template name 1}}}}|{{var|{{Gray|template name 2 ...}}}}|title{{=}}{{var|{{Gray|meaningful discussion title}}}}|text{{=}}{{var|{{Gray|Why you think the templates should be deleted.}}}} <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>}}}}

====[[Template:Tc]]====

unused and unuseful --[[User:MarSch|MarSch]] 16:16, 22 May 2005 (UTC)

You can add up to 50 template names (separated by vertical bar characters <code>|</code> ). Make sure to include the same meaningful discussion title that you chose before in Step 1.

====[[Template:Moveto]]====

Deprecated by {{tl|move}} and the [[WP:RM]] process. There are no systems in place to deal with a "moveto" tag. [[User:Violetriga|violet/riga]] [[User_talk:violetriga|(t)]] 13:15, 22 May 2005 (UTC)

If this is a merger proposal involving more than two templates, use the following:

====[[Template:AU-bio-stub]]====

Badly named duplicate of [[Template:Australia-bio-stub]]. Redirect is possible, but not desirable (WP:WSS is trying to reduce the number of redirects, since they cause yet more server slowdown). [[User:Grutness|Grutness]]...<font color=green><small>''[[User_talk:Grutness|wha?''</small></font>]] 10:50, 22 May 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete'''. per [[WP:WSS]] guidelines. [[User:BlankVerse|<font color=green>''Blank''</font><font color= #F88017>''Verse''</font>]]<font color=#2554C7> </font>[[User talk:BlankVerse|<font color=#F660AB>&empty;</font> ]] 17:22, 22 May 2005 (UTC)

====[[Template:AU-actor-stub]], [[Template:FR-actor-stub]], [[Template:SE-actor-stub]]====

As above, these are redirects, but incompatible with any of the naming standards used by WP:WSS, and redirects of heavy-use templates are a cause of server slowdown. Of the thre, only FR-actor-stub is heavily used (about 75 articles). The others are depopulated. [[User:Grutness|Grutness]]...<font color=green><small>''[[User_talk:Grutness|wha?''</small></font>]] 11:22, 22 May 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete'''. per [[WP:WSS]] guidelines. [[User:BlankVerse|<font color=green>''Blank''</font><font color= #F88017>''Verse''</font>]]<font color=#2554C7> </font>[[User talk:BlankVerse|<font color=#F660AB>&empty;</font> ]] 17:20, 22 May 2005 (UTC)

{{block indent| {{Tlxs|Tfm2|{{var|{{Gray|template name 1}}}}|{{var|{{Gray|template name 2 ...}}}}|with{{=}}{{var|{{Gray|main template (optional)}}}}|title{{=}}{{var|{{Gray|meaningful discussion title}}}}|text{{=}}{{var|{{Gray|Why you think the templates should be merged.}}}} <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>}}}}

===May 21===

====[[Template:Fridtjof Nansen class frigate]]====

'''Delete''', no longer used. For a short time there were seperate articles for each vessel in this frigate class with essentially all duplicated info, that info is now collected in the common article for this class. -- [[User:Egil|Egil]] 05:22, 22 May 2005 (UTC)

''Delete''' as unused --[[User:MarSch|MarSch]] 17:30, 22 May 2005 (UTC)

You can add up to 50 template names (separated by vertical bar characters <code>|</code> ), plus one more in {{para|with}}. {{para|with}} does not need to be used, but should be the template that you want the other templates to be merged into. Make sure to include the same meaningful discussion title that you chose before in Step 1.

====[[Template:VfD-BunchofXena]] and [[Template:VfD-HollowayCA]]====

These look like more mistakenly created votes in the template namespace. Does this happen a lot, or am I missing something? The similar names worry me that either 1) this is supposed to happen and I'm wasting your time, or 2) there's more out there and we should do a comprehensive search. So, what's up? --[[User:Dmcdevit|Dmcdevit]] 17:07, 21 May 2005 (UTC)

*See [[Wikipedia:VfD votes in the Template namespace]]. &#8212;[[User:Mirv|Charles&nbsp;P.]][[User talk:Mirv|&nbsp;<small>(Mirv)</small>]] 17:20, 21 May 2005 (UTC)

**Oh, OK, I was beginning to suspect as much. Thank you. --[[User:Dmcdevit|Dmcdevit]] 17:26, 21 May 2005 (UTC)

'''Related categories:''' If this is a deletion proposal involving a template and a category populated solely by templates, add this code in the {{para|text}} field of the <code>Tfd2</code> template but before the text of your rationale:

====[[Template:Nointernal]]====

{{block indent| {{Tlxs|Catfd2|{{var|{{Gray|category name}}}}}}}}

A less obnoxious version of [[Template:Noimage]] that was created by an anon and is completely unused. [[User:BlankVerse|<font color=green>''Blank''</font><font color= #F88017>''Verse''</font>]]<font color=#2554C7> </font>[[User talk:BlankVerse|<font color=#F660AB>&empty;</font> ]] 07:05, 21 May 2005 (UTC)

|- id="Step III"

*'''Delete''' [[User:BlankVerse|<font color=green>''Blank''</font><font color= #F88017>''Verse''</font>]]<font color=#2554C7> </font>[[User talk:BlankVerse|<font color=#F660AB>&empty;</font> ]] 07:05, 21 May 2005 (UTC)

! scope="row" style="background-color: orange" | III: Notify users.

====[[Template:Cobauth]]====

| style="padding: 0.5em;" | Please notify the creator of the template nominated (as well as the creator of the target template, if proposing a merger). It is helpful to also notify the main contributors of the template that you are nominating. To find them, look in the [[Help:Page history|page history]] or [[Help:Talk page|talk page]] of the template. Then, add one of the following:

Not used anywhere. Unless any use can be found for it, <b>delete</b>. - [[User:Mike Rosoft|Mike Rosoft]] 06:39, 21 May 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete'''. Designed for [[Creatures]] [[fancruft]]. [[User:BlankVerse|<font color=green>''Blank''</font><font color= #F88017>''Verse''</font>]]<font color=#2554C7> </font>[[User talk:BlankVerse|<font color=#F660AB>&empty;</font> ]] 07:05, 21 May 2005 (UTC)

* For deletion: {{Tlxs|Tfd notice|{{var|{{Gray|template name}}}}}} <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>

===May 20===

* For merging: {{Tlxs|Tfm notice|{{var|{{Gray|template name}}}}|{{var|{{Gray|other template's name}}}}}} <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>

==== [[Template:Torture-stub]] ====

Only used for one article, and no associated category was created for it. [[User:BlankVerse|<font color=green>''Blank''</font><font color= #F88017>''Verse''</font>]]<font color=#2554C7> </font>[[User talk:BlankVerse|<font color=#F660AB>&empty;</font> ]] 06:37, 21 May 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete'''. [[User:BlankVerse|<font color=green>''Blank''</font><font color= #F88017>''Verse''</font>]]<font color=#2554C7> </font>[[User talk:BlankVerse|<font color=#F660AB>&empty;</font> ]] 06:37, 21 May 2005 (UTC)

* This article is a torture stub. You can help wikipedia by putting it on the rack and expanding it. (Delete). [[User:Raul654|&rarr;Raul654]] 06:39, May 21, 2005 (UTC)

*'''Keep'''. Ironically, while BlankVerse was nominating this template here, I was busy creating a category for it and populating it. I doubt that this could get to 100 articles, but I don't see any real reason for its deletion, and it now has 27 articles. [[User:Grutness|Grutness]]...<font color=green><small>''[[User_talk:Grutness|wha?''</small></font>]] 07:02, 21 May 2005 (UTC)

*'''Keep and Redirect'''. I'd suggest we merge the content into crime-stub and make this a "permanent" redirect (defensible) as a subcategory of crime that is useful to label but not sufficiently broad to justify it's own category (for non-stubbidocious folks, stub templates almost always exist as a template-category pair). Torture is generally considered criminal, though governments would have you believe that it's not when done in the interests of the state. I was going to vote for keep, but think that there's been sufficient talk around the confusions of policy, semi-policy and guidelines that I'd turn technocrat for a moment and recommend abiding by the 100 article threshold for the existence of stub categories that's part of the [[WP:WSS]] <s>policy</s> <s>guidelines</s> recommendations. [[User:Ceyockey|Courtland]] 10:13, 2005 May 21 (UTC)

**Quite a few of the items don't really qualify. Although you could argue that the methods used in, say, the Spanish Inquisition and French Revolution were crimes against humanity, I'd be a little dubious about listing those items under crime. It's worth noting that quite a number of the torture-stubs I found were listed under history-stub,. and that's probably where any others will come from as well. In any case, the 100 stub guideline is for the creation of new stub templates - there is no such limit for the deletion of old stub templates (quite the opposite, in fact - ''Stub categories may be resorted but should not be deleted if the stub category reaches less than 100 articles'', according to the [[Wikipedia:Stub sorting policy]] page). The new proposals don't deal with it at all - they deal with stub template creation, not deletion. [[User:Grutness|Grutness]]...<font color=green><small>''[[User_talk:Grutness|wha?''</small></font>]] 11:07, 21 May 2005 (UTC)

***Good points about content appropriateness, but I wasn't referring to "crimes against humanity" but simply to "crimes as generally accepted" in terms of violence against the individual without invoking torture as a tool for social change. I'll take up the discussion of the 100 stub guideline over at [[WP:WSS]].<s>, at [[Wikipedia_talk:Stub_sorting_policy]]. [[User:Ceyockey|Courtland]] 16:49, 2005 May 21 (UTC)</s> I've put down my thoughts on this at [[Wikipedia_talk:Stub_sorting_policy#Back_to_the_100-stub_article_threshold]]. [[User:Ceyockey|Courtland]] 17:10, 2005 May 21 (UTC)

****My personal opinion is that although there are articles that are very clearly about a torture-related subject, that the stub itself will likely lend itself to POV problems. To avoid those problems, it should be deleted.

***I don't think this has ever happened at [[:Category:Torture]], which has been around a lot longer... [[User:Grutness|Grutness]]...<font color=green><small>''[[User_talk:Grutness|wha?''</small></font>]]

*'''Keep''' - [[User:SoM|SoM]] 01:24, 22 May 2005 (UTC)

to the talk pages of the template creator (and the creator of the ''other template'' for a merger) and the talk pages of the main contributors. It is also helpful to make any interested [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Directory|WikiProjects]] aware of the discussion. To do that, make sure the template's talk page is tagged with the banners of any relevant WikiProjects; please consider notifying any of them that do not use [[Wikipedia:Article alerts|Article alerts]]. [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Compact|Deletion sorting lists]] are a possible way of doing that.

==== [[Template:GenericCountryStub|GenericCountryStub]] and its redirect [[Template:GCS|GCS]], plus the "sub-template" [[Template:GenericCountryStubDetail|GenericCountryStubDetail]] and its redirect [[Template:GCSD|GCSD]]====

An attempt at simplifying the various country stubs that doesn't work because of the inconsistent manner in which country stubs and their corresponding categories are named. [[User:BlankVerse|<font color=green>''Blank''</font><font color= #F88017>''Verse''</font>]]<font color=#2554C7> </font>[[User talk:BlankVerse|<font color=#F660AB>&empty;</font> ]] 06:06, 21 May 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete'''. [[User:BlankVerse|<font color=green>''Blank''</font><font color= #F88017>''Verse''</font>]]<font color=#2554C7> </font>[[User talk:BlankVerse|<font color=#F660AB>&empty;</font> ]] 06:06, 21 May 2005 (UTC)

*Every bit as impossible to use as 2stub below. A distinct liability. '''Delete'''. [[User:Grutness|Grutness]]...<font color=green><small>''[[User_talk:Grutness|wha?''</small></font>]] 06:24, 21 May 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete'''. I'll commend the creator for trying to simplify the stubber's life while hiding complexity beneath technology ... something that is a big part of computer application design. However, this unnecessarily complicates the stub template/category relationships as (to the best of my knowledge) there is not an analogous way to generify the country stub categories while preserving their separate identities, and it is the stub category that is the thing which assists would be authors to find things, the template being the connector between article and category. [[User:Ceyockey|Courtland]] 10:23, 2005 May 21 (UTC)

'''Multiple templates:''' There is no template for notifying an editor about a multiple-template nomination: please write a personal message in these cases.

==== [[Template:2stub]] ====

This would have been wonderful if it had been created prior to subcategorising stubs, but now it's simply not going to work, due to the way stub categories are named. Which leaves us three options: 1) leaving it to muddy the waters at stub-sorting; 2) turning round the battleship that is WP:WSS (should only take about 18 months of 24-hour-a-day effort to get everything renamed properly); 3) deleting the template (no mess, no fuss). Personally, I vote '''delete <s>and NOOB</s>'''. [[User:Grutness|Grutness]]...<font color=green><small>''[[User_talk:Grutness|wha?''</small></font>]] 05:48, 21 May 2005 (UTC)

*2Stub or not 2stub? '''Delete'''. [[User:BlankVerse|<font color=green>''Blank''</font><font color= #F88017>''Verse''</font>]]<font color=#2554C7> </font>[[User talk:BlankVerse|<font color=#F660AB>&empty;</font> ]] 06:06, 21 May 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete''' [[User:*Kat*|*Kat*]] 06:22, May 21, 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete''' I agree that this would have been wonderful if introduced months ago. I'm voting delete more on the grounds of lack of utility as opposed to the complications it would force in the lives of stubbers the world over. Cases where it would be utile are those where there is a natural relationship between two stub categories that is apparent for a subset of articles but not for all articles; however, in those circumstances, a new stub category (or at least template) would be the simpler approach. [[User:Ceyockey|Courtland]] 10:29, 2005 May 21 (UTC)

==== [[Template:Clear soup]] ====

I just stumbled across this. I think it was mistakenly created in the Template namespace or something. Don't know what it's for. It's obviously not helpful or in use (nothing links to it). --[[User:Dmcdevit|Dmcdevit]] 22:58, 20 May 2005 (UTC)

*'''Speedy delete'''. It's not being used for anything, and it is awfully close to being [[Wikipedia:Patent nonsense|Patent nonsense]]. [[User:BlankVerse|<font color=green>''Blank''</font><font color= #F88017>''Verse''</font>]]<font color=#2554C7> </font>[[User talk:BlankVerse|<font color=#F660AB>&empty;</font> ]] 04:16, 21 May 2005 (UTC)

*After a little detective work, I discover that it was [User:DS]] who put the vfd template on [[Clear soup]] - at about the same time as making this template - and (according to the vote) he had difficulties working out how to create what was presumably his first vfd sub-page. I think it's easy to guess what happened. '''Delete'''. [[User:Grutness|Grutness]]...<font color=green><small>''[[User_talk:Grutness|wha?''</small></font>]] 06:33, 21 May 2005 (UTC)

==== [[Template:Importantstub]] and the redirect [[Template:Important-stub]] ====

I've removed this template from a number of very trivial articles (such as [[Toilet training]]). One problem is that this stub isn't associated with any [[Wikipedia:WikiProjects|WikiProjects]], so even if an article was important, adding this tag to an article would still mean most people wouldn't know about it. Furthermore, if an article really was important, it would get mentioned on the mailing list, or on the IRC channel, and get fixed up in no time, so this template is a solution without a problem. [[User:BlankVerse|<font color=green>''Blank''</font><font color= #F88017>''Verse''</font>]]<font color=#2554C7> </font>[[User talk:BlankVerse|<font color=#F660AB>&empty;</font> ]] 14:45, 20 May 2005 (UTC)

* '''Delete'''. [[User:BlankVerse|<font color=green>''Blank''</font><font color= #F88017>''Verse''</font>]]<font color=#2554C7> </font>[[User talk:BlankVerse|<font color=#F660AB>&empty;</font> ]] 14:45, 20 May 2005 (UTC)

*Concur, and if '''delete'''d, [[:Category:Important stub]] should also go. [[User:Radiant!|R]][[User_talk:Radiant!|adiant]][[meta:mergist|_*]] 15:07, May 20, 2005 (UTC)

* [[User:Netoholic|Netoholic]] [[User talk:Netoholic|@]] 16:11, 2005 May 20 (UTC)

* ''D''': We already have {{tl|expand}}, Requests for expansion and the Countering Systemic Bias WikiProject which can do this better. [[User:Steinsky|Joe D]] [[User talk:Steinsky|(t)]] 16:36, 20 May 2005 (UTC)

* '''Delete''' this POV template.--[[User:MarSch|MarSch]] 16:58, 20 May 2005 (UTC)

* '''Delete''' ... yes, this is a problematic one. I don't think it's ever been populated thickly and its very subjective as to what should be tagged (I'd not go so far as to say POV at this point, though). [[User:Ceyockey|Courtland]] 23:22, 2005 May 20 (UTC)

*About time someone nominated this one - I've only ever known it be on about 20 articles tops. '''Begone, foul template!''' [[User:Grutness|Grutness]]...<font color=green><small>''[[User_talk:Grutness|wha?''</small></font>]] 00:29, 21 May 2005 (UTC)

** I seem to remember seeing it here once before ... maybe just wishful thinking :) [[User:Ceyockey|Courtland]] 00:55, 2005 May 21 (UTC)

***It was suggested as a candidate for deletion at the [[WP:WSS|Stub-sorting WikiProject]], but then nobody followed through with the suggestion. That is probably what you were thinking of. [[User:BlankVerse|<font color=green>''Blank''</font><font color= #F88017>''Verse''</font>]]<font color=#2554C7> </font>[[User talk:BlankVerse|<font color=#F660AB>&empty;</font> ]] 04:01, 21 May 2005 (UTC)

==== [[Template:Comp-wikify]] ====

Used on exactly three articles. [[Iff]] it was also mentioned at an appropriate WikiProject, I might have ignored it because there would at least be the ''potential'' for it to be used. [[User:BlankVerse|<font color=green>''Blank''</font><font color= #F88017>''Verse''</font>]]<font color=#2554C7> </font>[[User talk:BlankVerse|<font color=#F660AB>&empty;</font> ]] 11:54, 20 May 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete'''. [[User:BlankVerse|<font color=green>''Blank''</font><font color= #F88017>''Verse''</font>]]<font color=#2554C7> </font>[[User talk:BlankVerse|<font color=#F660AB>&empty;</font> ]] 11:54, 20 May 2005 (UTC)

*Concur, and if '''delete'''d, [[:Category:Computer and electronics articles that need to be wikified]] should also go. [[User:Radiant!|R]][[User_talk:Radiant!|adiant]][[meta:mergist|_*]] 14:13, May 20, 2005 (UTC)

*I find the idea interesting: alert the right people that an article is lacking in some way. Maybe for wikifying not so important but for expanding or cleanup it is. Is there already a standard way to do this?--[[User:MarSch|MarSch]] 17:02, 20 May 2005 (UTC)

**There is already <nowiki>{{</nowiki>[[Template:wikify|wikify]]<nowiki>}}</nowiki>. The difference between unwikified articles and the topic stubs is that ANYONE can wikify almost any article. I've wikified articles that I've stumbled upon (most without the wikify template) in a huge variety of subject areas. On the other hand, I generally only work on stubs in topic areas that I am knowledgable about. [[User:BlankVerse|<font color=green>''Blank''</font><font color= #F88017>''Verse''</font>]]<font color=#2554C7> </font>[[User talk:BlankVerse|<font color=#F660AB>&empty;</font> ]] 04:25, 21 May 2005 (UTC)

==== [[Template:Commons3]] ====

Orphaned and redundant with the established [[Wikipedia:Sister projects]] templates. -- [[User:Netoholic|Netoholic]] [[User talk:Netoholic|@]] 05:19, 2005 May 20 (UTC)

*'''Delete''' as redundant --[[User:MarSch|MarSch]] 17:38, 20 May 2005 (UTC)

*

===May 19===

==== [[Template:Smoothhenry]] ====

Unused personal template. If [[User:Smoothhenry]] still wants it, it should be '''userfied'''. [[User:BlankVerse|<font color=green>''Blank''</font><font color= #F88017>''Verse''</font>]]<font color=#2554C7> </font>[[User talk:BlankVerse|<font color=#F660AB>&empty;</font> ]] 10:35, 19 May 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete''' or '''userfy'''. [[User:BlankVerse|<font color=green>''Blank''</font><font color= #F88017>''Verse''</font>]]<font color=#2554C7> </font>[[User talk:BlankVerse|<font color=#F660AB>&empty;</font> ]] 10:35, 19 May 2005 (UTC)

*'''speedy delete''' this nonsense.--[[User:MarSch|MarSch]] 17:39, 20 May 2005 (UTC)

*'''Userfy'''. [[User:Zzyzx11|Zzyzx11]] [[User talk:Zzyzx11|(Talk)]] 01:42, 21 May 2005 (UTC)

==== [[Template:sofixit]] ====

The only use for the template is to add some [[boilerplate]] text to a discussion. From the "What links here" link, it looks like several editors aren't even using "Subst:" when they use it, so I was soooo tempted to edit the template into something completely different (and some [[Wikipedia:vandalism|vandal]] or problem editor might not be able to resist that temptation). The information in the template should probably be turned into a Wikipedia namespace article, but it shouldn't be a template. [[User:BlankVerse|<font color=green>''Blank''</font><font color= #F88017>''Verse''</font>]]<font color=#2554C7> </font>[[User talk:BlankVerse|<font color=#F660AB>&empty;</font> ]] 09:08, 19 May 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete'''. Of course. Or turn into a '''Wikipedia namespace article''' (with something other than the rather snotty "sofixit" name). [[User:BlankVerse|<font color=green>''Blank''</font><font color= #F88017>''Verse''</font>]]<font color=#2554C7> </font>[[User talk:BlankVerse|<font color=#F660AB>&empty;</font> ]] 09:08, 19 May 2005 (UTC)

**Interesting. It seems somewhat in use as a Wikipedia [[meme]], usually written as <nowiki>{{sofixit}}</nowiki>... (i.e. not linked to or substed, merely brackets within a nowiki tag) I've added [[sofixit]] as a redirect a while ago, not sure what to do with this one. [[User:Radiant!|R]][[User_talk:Radiant!|adiant]][[meta:mergist|_*]] 09:21, May 19, 2005 (UTC)

* '''Keep''', of course, because of the running jokes associated with it (plus, it's often useful on [[Talk:Main Page]] and other places where one encounters confused anons). {{User:Rdsmith4/Sig}} 12:19, May 19, 2005 (UTC)

*'''Keep''', useful for encouraging [[WP:BOLD|boldness]]. --[[User:Weyes|W]]([[User talk:Weyes|t]]) 13:08, 2005 May 19 (UTC)

*'''Keep''' - useful boilerplate text - plus the running joke necessiates the template ;) -- [[User:Grunt|Grun]][[User talk:Grunt|t]] [[European Union|{{User:Grunt/euflag}}]] 01:24, 2005 May 20 (UTC)

*'''Keep'''. It's a useful boilerplate text to use when newbies complain about something they could fix themselves (and usually referenced indirectly as <nowiki>{{sofixit}}</nowiki> when the one complaining is not a newbie). --[[User:CesarB|cesarb]] 23:35, 20 May 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete'''. This is indeed a [[meme]] but it's also a [[truism]] in that the template should be put on each and every article in Wikipedia, which undermines the utility of the template. Another example of a template that would be useful under the argument used to defend this one would be {{tl|addtruth}} to boilerplate the truism "when adding to this article, please add non-fiction" or {{tl|bekindtostrangers}} to boilerplate "assume good intentions" and "no personal attacks" rolled into one. [[User:Ceyockey|Courtland]] 10:36, 2005 May 21 (UTC)

*'''Keep''' -[[User:Frazzydee|Frazzydee]]|[[User talk:Frazzydee|&#9997;]] 11:02, 21 May 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete'''. Should not be used to tag articles, and is thus only useful on talk pages. If editors want to use it on talk pages, they surely can type the message themselves? [[User:Ingoolemo|<font color=blue>&rarr;I&ntilde;g&#333;lemo&larr;</font>]] [[User_talk:Ingoolemo|<font color=blue>^talk</font>]] 06:51, 2005 May 22 (UTC)

*'''Create an article in Wikipedia namespace instead'''. This is mostly referred to on talk pages, like other policies and semi-policies. [[User:Firebug|Firebug]] 07:29, 22 May 2005 (UTC)

*'''Keep'''. Historic. ;) [[User:Kim Bruning|Kim Bruning]] 10:28, 22 May 2005 (UTC)

==== [[Template:Noimage]] ====

Hideous; duplicates the function of the image request page; unnecessary clutter, etc. {{User:Rdsmith4/Sig}} 03:23, May 19, 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete''' I don't know if this is indeed the most stupid template ever, but it sure is a runner-up. -- [[User:AlexR|AlexR]] 03:25, 19 May 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete.''' So you've got a page that's a little blah-looking because it's all text. Putting a big garish box on it to point that out is not the best approach. (Slightly less annoying if placed on talk pages, I admit, but still not great.) [[User:FreplySpang|FreplySpang]] [[User talk:FreplySpang|(talk)]] 03:28, 19 May 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete'''. I hereby award this template a <div class="boilerplate metadata" id="vfd" style="margin: 0 42%; padding: 0 7px 7px 7px; background: #EDF1F1; border: 2px solid #999999; text-align: left; font-size:95%;" >''This is a '''box''''' </div> award for ''stating the bleeding obvious.'' [[User:Grutness|Grutness]]...<font color=green><small>''[[User_talk:Grutness|wha?''</small></font>]] 04:24, 19 May 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete'''. Ew. BTW, Grutness needs to create a template for his award. (I'm kidding.) --[[User:TenOfAllTrades|TenOfAllTrades]] <small>([[User_talk:TenOfAllTrades|talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/TenOfAllTrades|contrib]])</small> 02:14, 20 May 2005 (UTC)

**I was tempted... [[User:Grutness|Grutness]]...<font color=green><small>''[[User_talk:Grutness|wha?''</small></font>]]

*Gawd! That is one '''UGLY''' template, and apparently designed to be put onto article pages and not onto the Talk pages like [[Template:Reqimage]]. Demolish, Detroy, '''Delete'''. [[User:BlankVerse|<font color=green>''Blank''</font><font color= #F88017>''Verse''</font>]]<font color=#2554C7> </font>[[User talk:BlankVerse|<font color=#F660AB>&empty;</font> ]] 06:53, 21 May 2005 (UTC)

====[[Template:Ambiguous]]====

Policies should not be labelled "ambiguous". If there is a dispute, they should be labelled "proposed", and then promoted, rejected, or archived after discussion. -- [[User:Beland|Beland]] 02:05, 19 May 2005 (UTC)

* '''Delete''' ... Agreed. Concerns about the clarity of policies should be handled through discussion and acceptance of decided outcomes, not branding such as this that needlessly muddies the policy and perhaps undermines it's application. [[User:Ceyockey|Courtland]] 02:15, 2005 May 19 (UTC)

*'''Keep'''. This is yet another attempt to set [[WP:RULES|policy]] on the [[WP:TFD]] page. There are Wikipedia namespace articles that have at least some support and have been around for a long time, but have never been voted on, nor have had sufficient discussions to show that they do have strong [[Wikipedia:consensus|consensus]]. They probably need to have a survey done on them (like the recent survey on [[WP:POINT]]) to determine what level of support the page has. One such page that comes to mind is [[Wikipedia:Google test]], which in my opinion is used and abused, and rarely enlightening. Until the support for such pages has been properly appraised, they should get the "ambiguous" tag. [[User:BlankVerse|<font color=green>''Blank''</font><font color= #F88017>''Verse''</font>]]<font color=#2554C7> </font>[[User talk:BlankVerse|<font color=#F660AB>&empty;</font> ]] 05:41, 19 May 2005 (UTC)

**As another example:[[WP:RPA|Remove personal attacks]], which Radiant! had tagged as a Wikipedia Guideline, and then Zocky later retagged as both a Proposal, and as Obsolete. I personally don't think any of those these tags accurately fits the way that [[WP:RPA]] is used on the Wikipedia. [[User:BlankVerse|<font color=green>''Blank''</font><font color= #F88017>''Verse''</font>]]<font color=#2554C7> </font>[[User talk:BlankVerse|<font color=#F660AB>&empty;</font> ]] 09:11, 19 May 2005 (UTC)

*<s>'''Weak keep''', at least temporarily, because there's some classification of policy-like pages that is uncertain at the moment. These should be cleared up quickly (although I'd prefer not to get any other WP:POINT-like polls...) [[User:Radiant!|R]][[User_talk:Radiant!|adiant]][[meta:mergist|_*]] 06:58, May 19, 2005 (UTC)</s> '''Delete''', conviced by Zocky. [[User:Radiant!|R]][[User_talk:Radiant!|adiant]][[meta:mergist|_*]] 08:58, May 19, 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete'''. It's just another name for semi-policy. Whether the semi-policy template is deleted or not, this is redundant. I appreciate Blankverse's point to an extent, but I suggest that there are other ways to handle pages like the Google Test. It's just a guideline. Nobody will mind if you change it to make it better. [[User:Zocky|Zocky]] 07:12, 19 May 2005 (UTC)

**What the heck is a [[Wikipedia:Guideline]]? Right now, that link just takes you to the [[Wikipedia:Policies and guidelines]] page, which makes the issue no clearer. Although it is something that needed to be done, Radiant! has gone ahead and done some major changes to Wikipedia Policy pages without any [[Wikipedia:consensus]]. [[User:BlankVerse|<font color=green>''Blank''</font><font color= #F88017>''Verse''</font>]]<font color=#2554C7> </font>[[User talk:BlankVerse|<font color=#F660AB>&empty;</font> ]] 09:08, 19 May 2005 (UTC)

***It's not a major change, it's a rename. If you don't know what a guideline is, check [[Template:Guideline]], [[:Category:Wikipedia guidelines]], [[Wikipedia:Project namespace]] and/or [[wikt:guideline]]. [[User:Radiant!|R]][[User_talk:Radiant!|adiant]][[meta:mergist|_*]] 10:00, May 19, 2005 (UTC)

****It is a major change. Until you started this solo project of yours, there was Policy, Guidelines, Semi-Policy, Think-tank Proposals, Failed policies, and whole bunch of pages that were not classified. You've eliminated one entire category, Semi-Policy (ill-named, but a good category), and you've shoehorned articles from that category mostly into the Guideline category where many do not belong. [[User:BlankVerse|<font color=green>''Blank''</font><font color= #F88017>''Verse''</font>]]<font color=#2554C7> </font>[[User talk:BlankVerse|<font color=#F660AB>&empty;</font> ]] 15:17, 19 May 2005 (UTC)

*****I'm afraid you are mistaken. This is not a solo-project, and cat:guidelines was created a month ago to create an alternative to semi-pol. The reclassification of articles wasn't caused by me, even if you hadn't noticed it earlier - it started when the templates for 'policy', 'historical' etc where created, about a month and a half ago. [[User:Radiant!|R]][[User_talk:Radiant!|adiant]][[meta:mergist|_*]] 19:58, May 19, 2005 (UTC)

===May 18===

====[[Template:WikiProject:Community]]====

This appears to be a startup wikiproject that has been accidentally put in template namespace. It is empty, merely transcluding (rather than subst'ing) [[Template:WikiProject]]. [[User:Radiant!|R]][[User_talk:Radiant!|adiant]][[meta:mergist|_*]] 12:35, May 18, 2005 (UTC)

* '''Delete ''' Archived on Talk - SV

** Our process is not to archive deleted content on talk pages. In fact, Talk pages are to be deleted along with the main page they refer to. -- [[User:Netoholic|Netoholic]] [[User talk:Netoholic|@]] 02:22, 2005 May 19 (UTC)

* '''Delete''' -- [[User:Netoholic|Netoholic]] [[User talk:Netoholic|@]] 02:22, 2005 May 19 (UTC)

====[[Template:Ancient gods]]====

Presently only contains [[Template:Semitic gods]]. But ancient gods also include Greek, Egyptian and Norse deities, among others. Adding them all would make the template too unwieldy to use. Also, nothing links here. [[User:Radiant!|R]][[User_talk:Radiant!|adiant]][[meta:mergist|_*]] 12:23, May 18, 2005 (UTC)

* '''Populate''' - you seem to have some knowledge of the subject why not instead of wikiwhining (and singling out my history for templates) actually populate it and see where it goes. -[[User:Stevertigo|SV]]|[[User_talk:Stevertigo|t]] 19:00, 18 May 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete'''. -[[User:Gtrmp|Sean Curtin]] 22:46, May 18, 2005 (UTC)

*'''Rename''' to "Ancient Semitic gods". It sounds like the content isn't the problem, it's the mismatch of title and content. Probably many old mythologies would profit from templates. -[[User:Willmcw|Willmcw]] 22:59, May 18, 2005 (UTC)

**No, [[template:Semitic gods]] already exists. This template merely transcluded that one. [[User:Radiant!|R]][[User_talk:Radiant!|adiant]][[meta:mergist|_*]] 09:00, May 19, 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete''' as it is currently constructed; I agree with it becoming unwieldly quickly. An alternative suggestion would be a template covering Ancient Belief Systems that would provide linkages to things like the Semitic Gods, which would be adorned with both the ABS and Semitic Gods templates, the combination being smaller than a single template covering the panoply of deities. [[User:Ceyockey|Courtland]] 23:32, 2005 May 18 (UTC)

**Why has this been deleted so quickly? This was not a speedy candidate. [[User:Ceyockey|Courtland]] 02:16, 2005 May 19 (UTC)

***Possibly because it had no content, other than transcluding another template. [[User:Radiant!|R]][[User_talk:Radiant!|adiant]][[meta:mergist|_*]] 09:00, May 19, 2005 (UTC)

****Not an acceptable reason as far as I'm concerned. [[User:Ceyockey|Courtland]] 22:59, 2005 May 19 (UTC)

====[[Template:Rfmf]], [[Template:Rfm]]====

Attempts to streamline the RFM process, but not actually in use. Potential instruction creep. [[User:Radiant!|R]][[User_talk:Radiant!|adiant]][[meta:mergist|_*]] 12:23, May 18, 2005 (UTC)

* '''Delete''' - because its not currently used ATM. SV

*

====[[Template:This]]====

"This article is about 'this'"... do we really need a template for that? Btw nothing links here. [[User:Radiant!|R]][[User_talk:Radiant!|adiant]][[meta:mergist|_*]] 12:23, May 18, 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete''' - useless. --[[User:Maveric149|mav]] 14:35, 18 May 2005 (UTC)

* '''Delete''' ridiculous. -[[User:Stevertigo|SV]]|[[User_talk:Stevertigo|t]] 19:00, 18 May 2005 (UTC)

* '''Keep''' ~ this does seem superfluous, though not without usefulness. There are many pages that refer to disambiguation pages or alternative meanings and I don't think those referral messages are currently templated (correct me if I'm wrong there - thanks). Having a standard format would be useful and would augment the templated disambiguation system. However, it's use could lead to an erosion of the current disambiguation system if there are not clearcut usage guidelines that distinguish it from {{tl|dab}}. It's use probably falls in two places; the grey area where a set of meanings haven't yet made it to the level of needing a disambiguation page (e.g. [[Crib]], [[Whitewash]]), and the term after the disambiguation page is made to refer to it (e.g. [[Cigar]]). A better solution for the latter would be to evolve the disambiguation template, though. [[User:Ceyockey|Courtland]] 23:46, 2005 May 18 (UTC)

*'''Keep iff''' there are no other templates that do the same thing. -[[User:Frazzydee|Frazzydee]]|[[User talk:Frazzydee|&#9997;]] 18:29, 21 May 2005 (UTC)

====[[Template:USculture]]====

Intended as a substitute for [[:Category:American culture]], but the latter contains far too many topics to conveniently list them in a template. Besides, there's no meaningful ordering to them. [[User:Radiant!|R]][[User_talk:Radiant!|adiant]][[meta:mergist|_*]] 12:12, May 18, 2005 (UTC)

* '''Comment''' - "No meaningful order"? Apparently theres "no meaningful order" to the TFD process either. Your comment is disjointed - you use "them" in consecutive sentences to refer to two different templates. You seemed to be on the verge of explaining the reason for the split, but you cut yourself off -inserting a coarse value judgement about its content. -[[User:Stevertigo|SV]]|[[User_talk:Stevertigo|t]]

**Huh? 'Them' refers to 'far too many topics' in both cases. Surely TFD has better things to do than argue over grammar? [[User:Radiant!|R]][[User_talk:Radiant!|adiant]][[meta:mergist|_*]] 06:54, May 19, 2005 (UTC)

* '''Keep''' -[[User:Stevertigo|SV]]|[[User_talk:Stevertigo|t]] 19:00, 18 May 2005 (UTC)

* The template has a brief yet incredibly random selection of topics. '''Expand or delete'''. -[[User:Gtrmp|Sean Curtin]] 22:57, May 18, 2005 (UTC)

====[[Template:Valid]]====

Instruction creep. Purpose is to stick this template on topics that are considered 'valid' but have not yet any content, then list them in a cat. We already have [[Requested articles]]. [[User:Radiant!|R]][[User_talk:Radiant!|adiant]][[meta:mergist|_*]] 12:08, May 18, 2005 (UTC)

*'''Strong delete''' - Any page that it would be put on is a speedy delete candidate. Red links should tell readers that there is no content but the topic is valid. --[[User:Maveric149|mav]] 14:32, 18 May 2005 (UTC)

* '''Deleted''' -SV

* Why was this deleted so quickly? [[User:Ceyockey|Courtland]] 02:18, 2005 May 19 (UTC)

**I don't know; [[User:Stevertigo|Stevertigo]] deleted it without giving a reason. I've restored it until the TfD process is finished. [[User:Mel Etitis|Mel Etitis]] ([[User talk:Mel Etitis|<font color="green">&Mu;&epsilon;&lambda; &Epsilon;&tau;&eta;&tau;&eta;&sigmaf;</font>)]] 10:51, 19 May 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete''', as per above comments. [[User:Mel Etitis|Mel Etitis]] ([[User talk:Mel Etitis|<font color="green">&Mu;&epsilon;&lambda; &Epsilon;&tau;&eta;&tau;&eta;&sigmaf;</font>)]] 10:51, 19 May 2005 (UTC)

====[[Template:Template_messages]]====

Seems intended as a templated version of [[Wikipedia:Template_messages]], but it's only partially complete, and I'm not sure if that'd be all that useful in the first place. Nothing links here, and the various [[Wikipedia:Wikipedia messages|split-offs]] from WP:TM were recently VfD'ed. [[User:Radiant!|R]][[User_talk:Radiant!|adiant]][[meta:mergist|_*]] 11:58, May 18, 2005 (UTC)

* '''Archived - deleted''' -[[User:Stevertigo|SV]]|[[User_talk:Stevertigo|t]] 19:05, 18 May 2005 (UTC)

**It's not actually deleted yet, just copied to its own talk page. [[User:Radiant!|R]][[User_talk:Radiant!|adiant]][[meta:mergist|_*]] 09:01, May 19, 2005 (UTC)

====[[Template:See also2]], [[Template:See2]]====

Short for "See X and Y", and "Also see X and Y". Not in use, and relatively pointless imho. [[User:Radiant!|R]][[User_talk:Radiant!|adiant]][[meta:mergist|_*]] 11:57, May 18, 2005 (UTC)

* '''Strong unsure''' -[[User:Stevertigo|SV]]|[[User_talk:Stevertigo|t]] 19:06, 18 May 2005 (UTC)

* '''Keep''': Its a new template, give it some time to be used. In many article there are multiple ==See also's==. &nbsp;<font color="#0082B8">={{user|Nichalp}}=</font> 19:29, May 18, 2005 (UTC)

* '''Delete''' - takes as long to type in the name as it does to type "see also" or "also see". -[[User:Gtrmp|Sean Curtin]] 22:51, May 18, 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete''' - pointless, to say the least. -- [[User:AlexR|AlexR]] 03:28, 19 May 2005 (UTC)

====[[Template:Standard template style]]====

Oh my god! The idea is to include a ''redirect'' to this template from ''every single template'' in order to make the style uniform. And it's not even subst'ed! Can we please get rid of this server drain? [[User:Radiant!|R]][[User_talk:Radiant!|adiant]][[meta:mergist|_*]] 11:31, May 18, 2005 (UTC)

* '''Comment''': not every single template, just the kind-of-official ones as far as I know. There is [[Wikipedia talk:Template standardisation#move the standard to CSS|discussion]] underway to convert to a CSS-based solution, so if the horses could be held for just bit...? Oh, and BTW, thanks for '''not''' plastering {{tl:tfd}} all over it: this would have simply broken everything using it and made a nasty mess, so your courtesy is appreciated. --[[User:Phil Boswell|Phil]] | [[User talk:Phil Boswell|Talk]] 11:52, May 18, 2005 (UTC)

* '''Delete''' when the proposal to [[Wikipedia_talk:Template_standardisation#move_the_standard_to_CSS|move the standard style to the CSS]] comes to fruition. &ndash; [[User:ClockworkSoul|Clockwork]][[User talk:ClockworkSoul|'''Soul''']] 12:21, 18 May 2005 (UTC)

* '''Delete'''. I'm the original author of this template and was not fully aware of the server issues when I created it. The CSS alternative is feasible, but some details are still being discussed. Once the remaining issues have been settled, the template will be replaced by a CSS class and can safely be deleted. --[[User:MarkSweep|MarkSweep]] 18:05, 19 May 2005 (UTC)

====[[Template:Vfds]]====

Another small version of an existing template. [[User:Radiant!|R]][[User_talk:Radiant!|adiant]][[meta:mergist|_*]] 11:48, May 18, 2005 (UTC)

:I think this is useful [[User:Abeo Paliurus|Abeo]]<small> was User [[User:Abeo Paliurus|Jesus is the Christ]]</small> 15:07, 18 May 2005 (UTC)

:*<40 edits, most to Jesus-related pages and some to [[Template:npovs]] and the like. Suspected sockpuppet. [[User:Radiant!|R]][[User_talk:Radiant!|adiant]][[meta:mergist|_*]] 15:40, May 18, 2005 (UTC)

::What ides this mean? Do I need to do anything? [[User:Abeo Paliurus|Abeo]]<small> POV: [[User talk:Abeo Paliurus|Jesus is the Christ]]</small> 18:36, 20 May 2005 (UTC)

::*It means that, given your (previous) username and lack of edit history, I was concerned whether this was a valid vote (per [[WP:SOCK]]). I'm happy to see you have changed your user name. However, could you please explain why you find [[Template:Vfds]] useful when the common process uses [[Template:Vfd]]? Yours, [[User:Radiant!|R]][[User_talk:Radiant!|adiant]][[meta:mergist|_*]] 09:09, May 23, 2005 (UTC)

:::I just saw it on the [[Jesus]] page, but I guess I voted for the wrong thing - as I was trying to say that I thought the template I edited (npovs) was useful, and <nowiki>{{vfds}}</nowiki> was referenced on that template so I thought that was were I should vote. [[User:Abeo Paliurus|Abeo]]<small> POV: [[User talk:Abeo Paliurus|Jesus is the Christ]]</small> 13:34, 23 May 2005 (UTC)

====[[Template:Quoted]]====

Not actually in use. Do we need really a template for this? [[User:Radiant!|R]][[User_talk:Radiant!|adiant]][[meta:mergist|_*]] 11:26, May 18, 2005 (UTC)

* '''Keep: request referral''' There are already several dedicated templates for citations (see [[Wikipedia:Cite_sources#Citation_templates]]) and there already are also templates for referral to Wikiquote (see [[Wikipedia:Sister_projects#Wikiquote]]). My feeling is that we should stop the deletion voting process on this one and refer the question of utility and desirability to [[WP:FC]] and, potentially, to [[Wikiquote]] contributors. I'll toss a note into WP:FC, as I'm a (currently not active) member of that project. [[User:Ceyockey|Courtland]] 23:58, 2005 May 18 (UTC)

::''I've put my request for input up at [[Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Fact_and_Reference_Check#On_the_topic_of_Quotes_..._template_up_for_deletion]] ~~[[User:Ceyockey|Courtland]]

* '''Keep''' - necessary at least for use on [[Nationalism]]. Granted its policy to be segregationist with quotes, but I would prefer to let Einstein slide. -[[User:Stevertigo|SV]]|[[User_talk:Stevertigo|t]] 01:10, 19 May 2005 (UTC)

**[[Nationalism]] doesn't use [[Template:Quoted]]. Neither does anything else. I do think that Courtland's suggestion of asking around is a good idea. [[User:Radiant!|R]][[User_talk:Radiant!|adiant]][[meta:mergist|_*]] 10:54, May 19, 2005 (UTC)

* '''Keep''' -- What exactly is the matter with this template? Is it that it has not been used much in 4 days? I have tools I only use once every six months, but I don't throw them out. How do you even ''know'' it has not been used -- perhaps it has been ''substituted''. Is it that it was created by someone the nominator does not personally like? Or is it just for the feeling of blood rushing to the head as another useful tool is damaged with an ugly tag? '''Keep, keep, keep and censure bad-faith nominations.''' &mdash; [[User:Xiong|Xiong]][[Special:Emailuser/Xiong|<font color="#997749">&#29066;</font>]][[User talk:Xiong|talk]][[User:Xiong/Metatalk|<font color="#009900">*</font>]] 07:50, 2005 May 21 (UTC)

**[[WP:NPA]]. [[WP:FAITH]]. [[WP:POINT]]. You should seriously consider reading them some time. [[User:Radiant!|R]][[User_talk:Radiant!|adiant]][[meta:mergist|_*]] 09:11, May 23, 2005 (UTC)

===May 17===

==== [[Template:Wdp]] ====

Template for the implementation of [[WP:DEATH|a rejected policy]], useful mostly for personal attacks. Possibly a candidate for speedy deletion. --[[User:Carnildo|Carnildo]] 22:45, 17 May 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete''' with extreme prejudice, if it isn't speedied. --[[User:TenOfAllTrades|TenOfAllTrades]] <small>([[User_talk:TenOfAllTrades|talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/TenOfAllTrades|contrib]])</small> 23:49, 17 May 2005 (UTC)

* '''Speedy delete''' - more obvious [[WP:POINT]] from this user. Don't feed the trolls by even bothering to vote. -- [[User:Netoholic|Netoholic]] [[User talk:Netoholic|@]] 00:50, 2005 May 18 (UTC)

*

*

==== [[Template:Reallytinytotallydisputed]] ====

Not useful. [[WP:POINT]] by [[User:LevelCheck]]. --[[User:Carnildo|Carnildo]] 22:45, 17 May 2005 (UTC)

* '''Speedy delete''' - more obvious [[WP:POINT]] from this user. Don't feed the trolls by even bothering to vote. -- [[User:Netoholic|Netoholic]] [[User talk:Netoholic|@]] 00:12, 2005 May 18 (UTC)

**I tried to speedy it, but LevelCheck objected. --[[User:Carnildo|Carnildo]] 00:22, 18 May 2005 (UTC)

*** LOL. -- [[User:Netoholic|Netoholic]] [[User talk:Netoholic|@]] 00:50, 2005 May 18 (UTC)

*IT'S SO CUUUTE! [[User:Ketsuban|Ketsuban has spoken. The debate is over.]] 03:21, 18 May 2005 (UTC)

==== [[Template:Current-s]] ====

Yet another miniature version of an existing template ([[Template:Current]]) from [[User:Stevertigo]]. -- [[User:Netoholic|Netoholic]] [[User talk:Netoholic|@]] 20:45, 2005 May 17 (UTC)

* '''Delete''' should be named [[Template:currents]] -[[User:Stevertigo|SV]]|[[User_talk:Stevertigo|t]] 21:04, 17 May 2005 (UTC)

** Please save us the trouble then and speedy delete this one. -- [[User:Netoholic|Netoholic]] [[User talk:Netoholic|@]] 21:17, 2005 May 17 (UTC)

*'''Delete''', and Steve should really read [[WP:POINT]]. [[User:Radiant!|R]][[User_talk:Radiant!|adiant]][[meta:mergist|_*]] 21:58, May 17, 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete''' No need for the miniature version. [[User:Oleg Alexandrov|Oleg Alexandrov]] 07:25, 18 May 2005 (UTC)

*'''Keep''' -- This nomination has nothing to do with whether a template is useful or not; it's just a control issue. Let's keep the number of templates very small and, over time, encumber each one with a rule that bounds its use; finally, let's elect one user to guard the keys. Done? &mdash; [[User:Xiong|Xiong]][[Special:Emailuser/Xiong|<font color="#997749">&#29066;</font>]][[User talk:Xiong|talk]][[User:Xiong/Metatalk|<font color="#009900">*</font>]] 07:44, 2005 May 21 (UTC)

**Please state a good reason for having multiple templates that have the same function. [[User:Radiant!|R]][[User_talk:Radiant!|adiant]][[meta:mergist|_*]] 09:19, May 23, 2005 (UTC)

==== [[Template:Cleanups]] ====

Yet another miniature version of an existing template ([[Template:Cleanup]]) from [[User:Stevertigo]]. Seems like a good occassion to cite [[WP:POINT]], since he's creating so many of these. [[WP:RFC|RFC]]?. -- [[User:Netoholic|Netoholic]] [[User talk:Netoholic|@]] 20:33, 2005 May 17 (UTC)

* '''Keep''' - will discuss its use with the [[WP:CU|Cleanup]] crew - to counter [[WP:HT|Template madness]] -[[User:Stevertigo|SV]]|[[User_talk:Stevertigo|t]] 21:04, 17 May 2005 (UTC)

** Please do discuss with them, but carry that discussion on the talk page of the original template. We only need one to perform this function, whatever size is agreed upon. -- [[User:Netoholic|Netoholic]] [[User talk:Netoholic|@]] 21:17, 2005 May 17 (UTC)

* Why then all the various types of deletion templates - deleteagain, etc. Your argument is neer sound nor consistent. -[[User:Stevertigo|SV]]|[[User_talk:Stevertigo|t]] 21:37, 17 May 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete''', one template per purpose, avoid instruction creep. Regarding 'various types of deletion templates', see below where we vote on [[Template:Vfdbecause]], [[Template:Neologism]], [[Template:Povfork]] and [[Template:Lacksnotability]]. And Netoholic voted delete, so how is that inconsistent? [[User:Radiant!|R]][[User_talk:Radiant!|adiant]][[meta:mergist|_*]] 21:58, May 17, 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete''', for the same reason as the other small templates. Discuss in the appropriate place. --[[User:TenOfAllTrades|TenOfAllTrades]] <small>([[User_talk:TenOfAllTrades|talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/TenOfAllTrades|contrib]])</small> 23:41, 17 May 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete''' [[User:Oleg Alexandrov|Oleg Alexandrov]] 07:26, 18 May 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete''' - useless. --[[User:Maveric149|mav]] 14:34, 18 May 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete''' - redundant in its redundancy. -[[User:Gtrmp|Sean Curtin]] 23:01, May 18, 2005 (UTC)

*'''Keep''' -- Short and sweet, exactly what is needed. &mdash; [[User:Xiong|Xiong]][[Special:Emailuser/Xiong|<font color="#997749">&#29066;</font>]][[User talk:Xiong|talk]][[User:Xiong/Metatalk|<font color="#009900">*</font>]] 07:41, 2005 May 21 (UTC)

==== [[Template:Npovs]] ====

Yet another miniature version of an existing template ([[Template:NPOV]]) from [[User:Stevertigo]]. -- [[User:Netoholic|Netoholic]] [[User talk:Netoholic|@]] 20:33, 2005 May 17 (UTC)

* '''Keep''' - will discuss its use with the [[WP:NPOV|NPOV]] regulars - to counter [[WP:HT|Template madness]] -[[User:Stevertigo|SV]]|[[User_talk:Stevertigo|t]] 21:04, 17 May 2005 (UTC)

** Please do discuss with them, but carry that discussion on the talk page of the original template. We only need one to perform this function, whatever size is agreed upon. -- [[User:Netoholic|Netoholic]] [[User talk:Netoholic|@]] 21:17, 2005 May 17 (UTC)

*'''Delete''', one template per purpose, [[User:Radiant!|R]][[User_talk:Radiant!|adiant]][[meta:mergist|_*]] 21:58, May 17, 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete''': redundant...but certainly discuss with the NPOV regulars. --[[User:TenOfAllTrades|TenOfAllTrades]] <small>([[User_talk:TenOfAllTrades|talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/TenOfAllTrades|contrib]])</small> 23:38, 17 May 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete''' [[User:Oleg Alexandrov|Oleg Alexandrov]] 07:27, 18 May 2005 (UTC)

*'''Keep''' -- Useful tool. &mdash; [[User:Xiong|Xiong]][[Special:Emailuser/Xiong|<font color="#997749">&#29066;</font>]][[User talk:Xiong|talk]][[User:Xiong/Metatalk|<font color="#009900">*</font>]] 07:40, 2005 May 21 (UTC)

*'''Keep''' - is less obtrusive than the NPOV one while still marking that there is a dispute. [[User:Abeo Paliurus|Abeo]]<small> POV: [[User talk:Abeo Paliurus|Jesus is the Christ]]</small> 13:36, 23 May 2005 (UTC)

==== [[Template:Tfdss]] ====

Yet another miniature version of an existing template ([[Template:Tfd]]) from [[User:Stevertigo]]. -- [[User:Netoholic|Netoholic]] [[User talk:Netoholic|@]] 17:50, 2005 May 17 (UTC)

* '''Keep''' for rare cases where the [[template:tfds]] is too large - such as [[template:shortcut]]-like boxes. Otherwise TFDS can serve.

* '''Delete''' [[User:Stevertigo]] seems to be waging some sort of ill-defined and unexplained campaign, involving marking articles with this personal template without placing them on this page. I see no point to this template, and it's being misused. (Incidentally, I came here to add this template, as there was no "tfd" notice &mdash; I'm not clear why not). [[User:Mel Etitis|Mel Etitis]] ([[User talk:Mel Etitis|<font color="green">&Mu;&epsilon;&lambda; &Epsilon;&tau;&eta;&tau;&eta;&sigmaf;</font>)]] 21:24, 17 May 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete''', one template per purpose, [[User:Radiant!|R]][[User_talk:Radiant!|adiant]][[meta:mergist|_*]] 21:58, May 17, 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete'''. One template per purpose; cryptic acronym likely to confuse newer editors who would just edit it back out. --[[User:TenOfAllTrades|TenOfAllTrades]] <small>([[User_talk:TenOfAllTrades|talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/TenOfAllTrades|contrib]])</small> 23:36, 17 May 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete'''. What's next, LARGE VERSIONS OF EXISTING TEMPLATES? [[User:Andros 1337|Andros 1337]] 02:41, 18 May 2005 (UTC)

**[[Template:vfdl|Of course!]] --[[User:Carnildo|Carnildo]] 19:36, 18 May 2005 (UTC)

***LOL! [[User:Radiant!|R]][[User_talk:Radiant!|adiant]][[meta:mergist|_*]] 11:19, May 19, 2005 (UTC)

**Heey! Can I undelete that? Can I can I can I? Pweeeeze??? [[User:Grutness|Grutness]]...<font color=green><small>''[[User_talk:Grutness|wha?''</small></font>]] 08:25, 22 May 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete''' I find [[User:Stevertigo]]'s acctions a bit erratic. [[User:Oleg Alexandrov|Oleg Alexandrov]] 07:28, 18 May 2005 (UTC)

** So do I - but then, I also find the deletionist process bias to be likewise just as erratic. Perhaps Im just trying to compensate. -[[User:Stevertigo|SV]]|[[User_talk:Stevertigo|t]] 18:44, 18 May 2005 (UTC)

*'''Keep''' -- It's a tool. Of course, it should ''also'' be placed on Talk. &mdash; [[User:Xiong|Xiong]][[Special:Emailuser/Xiong|<font color="#997749">&#29066;</font>]][[User talk:Xiong|talk]][[User:Xiong/Metatalk|<font color="#009900">*</font>]] 07:39, 2005 May 21 (UTC)

====[[Template:semi-policy]]====

Deprecated. Use [[Template:Guideline]] instead. [[User:Radiant!|R]][[User_talk:Radiant!|adiant]][[meta:mergist|_*]] 14:08, May 17, 2005 (UTC)

* '''Delete''' - [[Wikipedia:semi-policy|semi-policy]] concept said that there are unwritten, common sense rules to which people can be held accountable. Well, if they're unwritten, how can pages on the wiki be so-marked? -- [[User:Netoholic|Netoholic]] [[User talk:Netoholic|@]] 15:37, 2005 May 17 (UTC)

* '''Delete'''. Netoholic's right. [[User:Jdforrester|James F.]] [[User_talk:Jdforrester|(talk)]] 16:20, 17 May 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete'''.--[[User:Mrfixter|Mrfixter]] 16:39, 17 May 2005 (UTC)

* '''Redirect''' [[template:proposed]] -[[User:Stevertigo|SV]]|[[User_talk:Stevertigo|t]] 21:04, 17 May 2005 (UTC)

* <s>'''Delete''', though in these deprication matters I think we do need to accept the need for some "ambiguously policy" tag. Redirect to [[Template:Ambiguous]]</s> '''Keep''' - BlankVerse is right. Don't depricate terms legislatively. [[User:Snowspinner|Snowspinner]] 04:42, May 18, 2005 (UTC)

**Disagree with both redirects - a 'semi-policy' is not usually 'proposed', nor is it 'ambiguous'. [[User:Radiant!|R]][[User_talk:Radiant!|adiant]][[meta:mergist|_*]] 09:50, May 18, 2005 (UTC)

*'''Keep'''. Semi-policy has been "Deprecated" without adequate discussion. Thus deleting this template is setting policy which shouldn't happen here. [[User:BlankVerse|<font color=green>''Blank''</font><font color= #F88017>''Verse''</font>]]<font color=#2554C7> </font>[[User talk:BlankVerse|<font color=#F660AB>&empty;</font> ]] 11:17, 18 May 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete''' for reasons explained on [[Wikipedia talk:Semi-policy]]. [[User:Zocky|Zocky]] 16:46, 18 May 2005 (UTC)

* '''Delete''' - To join the majority -[[User:Stevertigo|SV]]|[[User_talk:Stevertigo|t]] 19:10, 18 May 2005 (UTC)

* '''Delete'''. Other existing classifications are sufficient, and adding more just adds confusion. -- [[User:Beland|Beland]] 01:51, 19 May 2005 (UTC)

*::It's not not adding one classification, it's deleting one. [[User:BlankVerse|<font color=green>''Blank''</font><font color= #F88017>''Verse''</font>]]<font color=#2554C7> </font>[[User talk:BlankVerse|<font color=#F660AB>&empty;</font> ]] 15:12, 19 May 2005 (UTC)

** I assume [[Template:Semipolicy]] will be deleted as well? (It should be, since it just redirects to Template:Semi-policy.) -- [[User:Beland|Beland]] 02:01, 19 May 2005 (UTC)

*'''Keep''': agree with BlankVerse. [[User:Jonathunder|Jonathunder]] 13:47, 2005 May 19 (UTC)

*'''Keep''' --- agree with BlankVerse. This is a sneaky way to undermine the policy process. &mdash; [[User:Xiong|Xiong]][[Special:Emailuser/Xiong|<font color="#997749">&#29066;</font>]][[User talk:Xiong|talk]][[User:Xiong/Metatalk|<font color="#009900">*</font>]] 07:37, 2005 May 21 (UTC)

**In response to the above two votes, please read BlankVerse's talk page; I do believe I have convinced him. Semi-pol hasn't been deprecated, it's been renamed to 'guideline'. [[User:Radiant!|R]][[User_talk:Radiant!|adiant]][[meta:mergist|_*]] 09:17, May 23, 2005 (UTC)

====[[Template:Notpolicy]]====

Should be deprecated; anything that's not policy is either obviously so, or should be tagged as [[Template:Proposed]], [[Template:Rejected]], [[Template:Guideline]] or [[Template:Historical]]. [[User:Radiant!|R]][[User_talk:Radiant!|adiant]][[meta:mergist|_*]] 14:14, May 17, 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete''' - policy-type pages should be marked as Radiant says, and we don't need a tag for "everything else". -- [[User:Netoholic|Netoholic]] [[User talk:Netoholic|@]] 15:37, 2005 May 17 (UTC)

* '''Redirect''' Proposed -[[User:Stevertigo|SV]]|[[User_talk:Stevertigo|t]] 20:50, 17 May 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete'''. Note that this template is ''not'' synonymous with [[:Template:Proposed]]. --[[User:TenOfAllTrades|TenOfAllTrades]] <small>([[User_talk:TenOfAllTrades|talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/TenOfAllTrades|contrib]])</small> 23:34, 17 May 2005 (UTC)

*<s>'''Keep'''. It's a good way to distinguish things that are in proposal stage, but people get directed to them as policy. When proposals stop being current, they should be moved into the userspace of the user who proposed them, '''not marked as guidelines'''. [[User:Zocky|Zocky]] 11:32, 18 May 2005 (UTC)</s> Should read before posting. '''Delete.'''

*'''Delete'''. proposed is better. [[User:Zen-master|zen master ]] [[User talk:Zen-master| T ]] 19:10, 18 May 2005 (UTC)

*'''Keep''' -- but of course, nobody wants this on anything he is trying to push into policy. All the more reason it's needed. &mdash; [[User:Xiong|Xiong]][[Special:Emailuser/Xiong|<font color="#997749">&#29066;</font>]][[User talk:Xiong|talk]][[User:Xiong/Metatalk|<font color="#009900">*</font>]] 07:34, 2005 May 21 (UTC)

====[[Template:lgbt]]====

This template does not appear to be substantially in use, and also does not have a particularly representative good sampling of articles. See [[:Category:LGBT]]. -- [[User:Beland|Beland]] 02:33, 17 May 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete''' It was crap from the very start; particularly the completely arbitraty choice of articles. -- [[User:AlexR|AlexR]] 03:31, 17 May 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete''', agreed. [[User:Linuxbeak|Linuxbeak]] | [[User:Linuxbeak/Desk|Desk]] 03:36, May 17, 2005 (UTC)

* '''Delete''' categories do the job. -- [[User:Netoholic|Netoholic]] [[User talk:Netoholic|@]] 20:28, 2005 May 17 (UTC)

* '''Delete one only''' - LGBT stays -[[User:Stevertigo|SV]]|[[User_talk:Stevertigo|t]] 21:04, 17 May 2005 (UTC)

* '''Delete''' categories do the job. --[[User:Spinboy|Spinboy]] 23:18, 17 May 2005 (UTC)

* '''Weak delete''' - the topic could use a navigation box but this ain't it. -[[User:Gtrmp|Sean Curtin]] 23:06, May 18, 2005 (UTC)

====[[Template:Vfdbecause]], [[Template:Neologism]], [[Template:Povfork]], [[Template:Lacksnotability]]====

Redundant. Seems like a "lazy man's" way to use [[Template:VFD]]. [[User:69.110.11.6|69.110.11.6]] 02:05, 17 May 2005 (UTC)

* '''Keep only Template:Vfdbecause''' - Allows user to state reason on the article rather than just on the vfd pages. The others can be deleted. [[User:Andros 1337|Andros 1337]] 02:12, 17 May 2005 (UTC)

**But often, other reasons are cited on the VfD discussion, and articles may end up deleted for a different reason than the original one. So imho, '''delete all four'''. [[User:Radiant!|R]][[User_talk:Radiant!|adiant]][[meta:mergist|_*]] 10:30, May 17, 2005 (UTC)

* '''Delete all''' - One person's idea of why a page is VfD'd should not take priority. I can see revert wars over this. -- [[User:Netoholic|Netoholic]] [[User talk:Netoholic|@]] 02:30, 2005 May 17 (UTC)

* '''Delete all'''. The reason for a VFD should be explained on the VFD page itself, not in the notice. {{User:Rdsmith4/Sig}} 02:45, 17 May 2005 (UTC)

**(No vote) Why? and what about <nowiki>{{db|reason}}?</nowiki> [[User:Kappa|Kappa]] 06:45, 17 May 2005 (UTC)

***Speedy criteria are very strict and set in stone. Regular deletion criteria not so (see old discussion on the colored boxen). [[User:Radiant!|R]][[User_talk:Radiant!|adiant]][[meta:mergist|_*]] 10:30, May 17, 2005 (UTC)

* '''Delete all''' - <small>[[User:Trödel|Trödel]]|<font color="C000C0">[[User_talk:Trödel|talk]]</font></small> 04:09, 17 May 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete all''', censure [[User:LevelCheck]]. Instruction creep, and a source of perpetual revert wars. Further, meta-templates are harmful. --[[User:Carnildo|Carnildo]] 06:11, 17 May 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete all'''. The content of this template is covered under the VfD nomination process. People going through the VfD page should see the nominators explicitly stating their reasons for voting. Using these various tags just encourages laziness. I can see people slapping on one of these tags and not continuing with the VfD process because they feel they've already stated their reasons for nominating. --[[User:Deathphoenix|Death]][[User_talk:Deathphoenix|'''phoenix''']] 19:26, 18 May 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete all'''. We already went through this with the VFD boxes. --[[User:AllyUnion| AllyUnion]] [[User talk:AllyUnion|(talk)]] 21:10, 18 May 2005 (UTC)

*'''Kill them all,''' not only to the above reason, but the outcome of the vote can be changed by just changing a few words on the templates. [[User:Zscout370|Zscout370]] [[User_talk:Zscout370|(Sound Off)]] 03:11, 22 May 2005 (UTC)

===May 16===

====[[Template:Protectedf]], [[Template:Protectedsmall]], [[Template:Protected/sandbox]] and also [[Template:Vprotected-s]]====

Simple variations in style on [[Template:Protected]]; none are in actual use. As a matter of style uniformity (see [[WP:TS]]) we should have one template for protection, not four. [[User:Radiant!|R]][[User_talk:Radiant!|adiant]][[meta:mergist|_*]] 08:53, May 16, 2005 (UTC)

*'''delete'''. [[User:MarSch|MarSch]] 17:17, 16 May 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete all''' and stab anyone in the eye who tries to fork a template just because they can't convince others on the talk page to adopt their view for something so trivial as its size. One template per function, please. -- [[User:Netoholic|Netoholic]] [[User talk:Netoholic|@]] 18:24, 2005 May 16 (UTC)

** Why all the [[Wikipedia:WikiHate|WikiHate]]? &mdash; [[User:SebastianHelm|Sebastian]] [[User_talk:SebastianHelm|(talk)]] 18:53, 2005 May 16 (UTC)

*** Sorry, we've seen a few too many of these "miniature" versions of standard templates on this page lately. -- [[User:Netoholic|Netoholic]] [[User talk:Netoholic|@]] 19:07, 2005 May 16 (UTC)

*'''Delete''', but no fork stabbing required. Wikipedia should have a uniform style for its administrative templates.

* '''Delete''' - Ill just make new ones for front-page cases of [[WP:HT|Template madness]]. Either that or compromise with my suggestion on [[WP:TS]] for a basic choice of two sizes for people to use at will. I agree with the notion of "standards" but that doesn't mean that the only size available is a "Supersize" -[[User:Stevertigo|SV]]|[[User_talk:Stevertigo|t]] 02:06, 17 May 2005 (UTC)

* '''Delete all''' One protected is enough; and too likely to be used to trick people that an article is protected when it hasn't been. I should know I was tricked once :) <small>[[User:Trödel|Trödel]]|<font color="C000C0">[[User_talk:Trödel|talk]]</font></small> 03:33, 17 May 2005 (UTC)

=== May 15===

<!-- END OF COMMENT PHASE -->

<div class="boilerplate metadata" id="Old Business" style="{{divstyleamber}}"><center ><b >Old Business</b ></center >Everything from here on down is old business; the current 5-day review period has ended. Everything from this point on should be dealt with and removed from the workflow. Move ''this'' marker up as time passes.</div >

====[[Template:Wiki]]====

Why would I want to edit a page which I haven't seen seen yet? [[User:BrokenSegue|'''B'''roken]][[User talk:BrokenSegue|'''S'''egue]] 18:50, 15 May 2005 (UTC)

* '''userfy''' [[User:MarSch|MarSch]] 17:23, 16 May 2005 (UTC)

* '''Delete''' -- [[User:Netoholic|Netoholic]] [[User talk:Netoholic|@]] 18:27, 2005 May 16 (UTC)

* '''userfy''', somebody clearly finds it useful, just don't let them use it on main namespace pages. [[User:Steinsky|Joe D]] [[User talk:Steinsky|(t)]] 19:01, 16 May 2005 (UTC)

=== May 13 ===

{{/history}}

==== [[Template:Article resources]] ====

'''No vote'''. [[User:Stevertigo|Stevertigo]] tagged this template with <nowiki>{{</nowiki>tfd}} on Apr 27, 2005 but as far as I can tell it was never listed here. &mdash;[[User:MilesK|Miles]][[User_talk:MilesK|&larr;&#9742;]] 21:16, May 13, 2005 (UTC)

* '''Comment''' I dont recall tagging it or why I would. Remove from list here. -[[User:Stevertigo|SV]]|[[User_talk:Stevertigo|t]] 04:40, 14 May 2005 (UTC)

==== [[Template:Boxstub]] ====

Far too narrow and single-purpose. "Stub" is defined as a very short article, not a portion thereof. -- [[User:Netoholic|Netoholic]] [[User talk:Netoholic|@]] 17:51, 2005 May 13 (UTC)

* '''Delete'''. Exists since nov 2004 and is used in 2 articles. Use {{tl|sectstub}} instead.-[[User:MarSch|MarSch]] 11:56, 14 May 2005 (UTC)

* '''Keep and NOOB''' -- refer all questionable stubs to [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Stub sorting]] and discuss them there. &mdash; [[User:Xiong|Xiong]][[Special:Emailuser/Xiong|<font color="#997749">&#29066;</font>]][[User talk:Xiong|talk]][[User:Xiong/Metatalk|<font color="#009900">*</font>]] 03:22, 2005 May 15 (UTC)

**'''Comment''' As you've been told about fifteen times, WP:WSS doesn't have deletion powers. You're just trolling now. - [[User:SoM|SoM]] 22:47, 16 May 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete and VMOB'''. [[User:Radiant!|R]][[User_talk:Radiant!|adiant]][[meta:mergist|_*]] 10:00, May 15, 2005 (UTC)

*'''Strong Keep''' - Infoboxes are not sections, they are infoboxes. There has to be a way to tell users if an infobox is incomplete. [[User:Andros 1337|Andros 1337]] 15:51, 16 May 2005 (UTC)

** I would think that the blank spaces would do that. Anyway, if an infobox needs work, notify the appropriate WikiProject. -- [[User:Netoholic|Netoholic]] [[User talk:Netoholic|@]] 18:32, 2005 May 16 (UTC)

*'''Delete''' - [[User:SoM|SoM]] 22:47, 16 May 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete''', or at the ''very least'' '''rename and reword'''. Netoholic's right, stubs are articles, not infoboxes. Perhaps "boxdev" (to keep it in line with listdev) would be a better name. [[User:Grutness|Grutness]]...<font color=green><small>''[[User_talk:Grutness|wha?''</small></font>]] 03:11, 18 May 2005 (UTC)

*'''Strong keep''' - I think it's a good idea. - [[User:Ta bu shi da yu|Ta bu shi da yu]] 07:42, 18 May 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete''', I don't like this idea, and I think that a little 'edit' button in the corner would be sufficient rather than uglifying the entire infobox. -[[User:Frazzydee|Frazzydee]]|[[User talk:Frazzydee|&#9997;]] 16:14, 22 May 2005 (UTC)

==== [[Template:Box]] ====

Unused -[[User:MarSch|MarSch]] 15:34, 13 May 2005 (UTC)

* '''Delete''' - death to random colored boxes. -- [[User:Netoholic|Netoholic]] [[User talk:Netoholic|@]] 17:43, 2005 May 13 (UTC)

* '''Keep''' - useful template. -[[Image:levelchecksig.png|150px]]

**...and to think people complained about my lovely horse. [[User:Grutness|Grutness]]...<font color=green><small>''[[User_talk:Grutness|wha?</small>''</font>]] 07:55, 14 May 2005 (UTC) (sniff).

**It's <s>gone! back!</s> blinking on and off like the Queen of Eyes! [[User:Grutness|Grutness]]...<font color=green><small>''[[User_talk:Grutness|wha?</small>''</font>]] 01:01, 15 May 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete'''. -[[User:Gtrmp|Sean Curtin]] 00:10, May 14, 2005 (UTC)

* '''Keep''' Net's raging hard-on for deleting with extreme prejudice any "random colored" boxes is alone worthy of a countervote. Apparently he doesnt understand that templates are editable and that he can suggest a different hex code. -[[User:Stevertigo|SV]]|[[User_talk:Stevertigo|t]] 04:24, 14 May 2005 (UTC)

'''Question'''<br>

I don't get it. This template contains basically the following:

;content:<nowiki><div class="usermessage">{{{1}}}</div></nowiki>

;which yields simply:<div class="usermessage">Foo</div>

What does this have to do with random colored boxes? &mdash; [[User:SebastianHelm|Sebastian]] [[User_talk:SebastianHelm|(talk)]] 17:59, 2005 May 14 (UTC)

*Seems to me there are better ways of making a box. Plus this template isn't actually in use, plus it would cause an (admittedly slight) undesired strain on the server. So '''delete'''. [[User:Radiant!|R]][[User_talk:Radiant!|adiant]][[meta:mergist|_*]] 00:06, May 15, 2005 (UTC)

* '''Soft Redirect''' onto [[Template talk:Divbox]]. &#123;&#123;[[template:divbox|divbox]]&#125;&#125; provides similar functionality when employed thus:

: <code><nowiki>{{divbox|none||CONTENT}}</nowiki></code>

: Fears of excessive server load are overblown and without actual foundation. &mdash; [[User:Xiong|Xiong]][[Special:Emailuser/Xiong|<font color="#997749">&#29066;</font>]][[User talk:Xiong|talk]][[User:Xiong/Metatalk|<font color="#009900">*</font>]] 03:31, 2005 May 15 (UTC)

:*See [[Wikipedia:Transclusion_costs_and_benefits]]. They are overblown, but have a strong foundation in fact. [[User:Radiant!|R]][[User_talk:Radiant!|adiant]][[meta:mergist|_*]] 10:03, May 15, 2005 (UTC)

*'''Keep'''.--[[User:212.100.250.217|212.100.250.217]] 08:04, 22 May 2005 (UTC)

{{User:Energy/Box|I've made a copy of this template at [[User:Energy/Box|this page]] and I think this is called "userfying". Just so you know. But I would have said '''keep''' anyway.--><big>[[User:Energy|Energy]] ([[User talk:Energy|talk]])</big> 08:08, 22 May 2005 (UTC)}}

==== [[Template:Helpout]] ====

This template links to temporary article '''Donations_for_victims_of_the_2004_Indian_Ocean_earthquake''' recently [[Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/Donations for victims of the 2004 Indian Ocean earthquake|voted for deletion (result redirect)]]. (used to link to [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Donations_for_victims_of_the_2004_Indian_Ocean_earthquake&oldid=13466211 this archived version])

The template is obsolete now and used only on same user pages and archives.

[[User:DariuszT|DariuszT]] 02:45, 13 May 2005 (UTC)

* Delete; its function has been replaced by the [[Template:Main Page banner]]. {{User:Rdsmith4/Sig}} 02:50, 13 May 2005 (UTC)

* '''Delete''', obsolete. [[User:Radiant!|R]][[User_talk:Radiant!|adiant]][[meta:mergist|_*]] 07:44, May 13, 2005 (UTC)

* '''Delete''', ditto. --[[User:Andrewh|Andrew]] 15:42, 17 May 2005 (UTC)

==== [[Template:Alphabet]] ====

This template, which a list of every alphabet organized by 'genetic' origin, is included or at least intended to be included on every alphabet page, such as [[Hangul]] and [[Latin Alphabet]]. We don't really have "article series" anymore&mdash;that is why categories were invented, so this template amounts to nothing but needless clutter. The list, organized by genetic origin, can be included on [[Alphabet]] if need be. [[User:Nohat|Nohat]] 00:25, 13 May 2005 (UTC)

''this looked like it was in need of a vote tally ... [[User:Ceyockey|Courtland]] 23:36, 2005 May 20 (UTC)''

::* '''keep''': 10

::** sukh, netholic, tezeti, SV, Bastique

::** 1/2 in favor of modification: jpbrenna, radiant, porges, dab, trodel

::* '''delete''': 5

::** gwalla, sebastian, puzzlet chung, Pjacobi, oleg alexandrov

::* '''categorify''': 2

::** xiong, blankverse

* '''Keep''' - I think the way it structures the relationship between different alphabets is quite handy. Especially say for example with [[Gurmukhi]] how it shows its relation to [[Brahmi]] descendants and modern day Indic scripts. Although maybe we could have one specifically for Indic scripts if this is a bit broad? [[User:Sukh|Sukh]] 00:42, 13 May 2005 (UTC)

*:OK, but does that structure need to be repeated on ''every single'' page about an alphabet? [[User:Nohat|Nohat]] 01:06, 13 May 2005 (UTC)

*::Well it may be good to split it off into sub-sections - for example, one from [[Brahmi]] scripts would be useful. [[User:Sukh|Sukh]] 10:55, 13 May 2005 (UTC)

*'''Keep''' - Extremely useful for navigation. Would you delete the [[Template:WWIITheatre|World War II Theater template]] too?

*: ''(anonymous vote)''

::Oops, that was me, --[[User:Jpbrenna|Jpbrenna]] 03:25, 13 May 2005 (UTC) I didn't realize I was signed out. How about this, I'll change it to '''Keep''' but '''Modify''' so we can stick it at the bottom of the page. Also, '''Sexy''' it up a bit (add more colors,border, etc.) so it looks cool, like the WWII Template mentioned above.

::: Something like this:

<br clear=all>

<center>

{| class="toccolours"

|-

| style="background:#ccddcc" align="center" | '''This article is part of the [[Alphabet]] series.'''

|-

| style="background:#ccccff" align="center" | '''Poorly Attested Early Alphabets'''

|-

| align="center" style="font-size: 90%;"| [[Middle Bronze Age alphabets|Proto-Canaanite Script]]

|-

| style="background:#ccccff" align="center" | ''' Phoenician-Derived Scripts'''

|-

| align="center" style="font-size: 90%;"|[[Hebrew alphabet]] | [[Aramaic alphabet]]

|-

| style="background:#ccccff" align="center" | '''Independently Formulated Alphabets'''

|-

| align="center" style="font-size: 90%;" | [[Armenian alphabet]]

|}

</center>

*'''Keep''' - of course we still have [[Wikipedia:article series|article series]]. This presents the information in a timeline. Could use a little cleaning up, but this is a good template. -- [[User:Netoholic|Netoholic]] [[User talk:Netoholic|@]] 01:43, 2005 May 13 (UTC)

*'''Keep''' [[User:Tezeti|<span style="background-color: #000000"><FONT COLOR="#00AA00">&#1090;&#601;</FONT><FONT COLOR="#00CC00">z&#1108;</FONT><FONT COLOR="#00FF00">&#1090;&#1110;</FONT>]] 01:47, May 13, 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete.''' This template is so large that it squashes articles into long, narrow columns. It would be much more useful as simply a section in [[alphabet]], rather than an overgrown navbox cluttering up every article on a writing system. [[User:Gwalla|<nowiki></nowiki>]] &mdash; [[User:Gwalla|Gwalla]] | [[User talk:Gwalla|Talk]] 01:49, 13 May 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete'''. While i agree with Sukh that it's a nice table, i disagree with anonymous that it's necessary for navigation. You can easily keep the hierarchy open in one window and just open other articles in a new window. Moreover:

** It doesn't compare with the [[Template:WWIITheatre|World War II Theater template]] - is about 4 times as big.

** Due to its longish shape you can't put it at the bottom in the same way as the World War II Theater template.

** It is far from being complete and therefore likely to grow even much further.

: [[User:SebastianHelm|Sebastian]] [[User_talk:SebastianHelm|(talk)]] 02:00, 2005 May 13 (UTC)

*'''no vote''' - it ''is'' useful, but it is also far too big. Is there any way of breaking it down into smaller sections, or perhaps reorganising it as an article in its own right, to be linked to from the articles which currently have the template? [[User:Grutness|Grutness]]...<font color=green><small>''[[User_talk:Grutness|wha?</small>''</font>]] 02:28, 13 May 2005 (UTC)

*'''Weak keep but reword''', template is impractically big. [[User:Radiant!|R]][[User_talk:Radiant!|adiant]][[meta:mergist|_*]] 07:40, May 13, 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete'''. This template is too large, and interferes with other floating frames like image, table, etc. It takes down article readability eventually, which is not the general point of the index boxes. --[[User:PuzzletChung|Puzzlet Chung]] 15:48, 13 May 2005 (UTC)

*'''Modify''' - Split it into smaller sections and insert into the relevant articles (e.g. the alphabet's ancestors and descendants). The full list can be inserted into [[alphabet]]. [[User:Porge|porges]] 00:31, May 14, 2005 (UTC)

* '''Keep''' I like this template wherever I see it. Ive been studying up on some of these, and have found it literally both handy ''and'' dandy. Might use a little cleanup though. -[[User:Stevertigo|SV]]|[[User_talk:Stevertigo|t]] 04:49, 14 May 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete''', much too large. Navigation using categories, lists or the main articles is better. --[[User:Pjacobi|Pjacobi]] 12:01, 2005 May 14 (UTC)

*'''keep''', but '''do not''' include every alphabet known to man! only include the most notable alphabets, for goodness' sake, do a [[List of alphabets]] article if you must, but a template must be concise. [[User:Dbachmann|dab]] <small>[[User_talk:Dbachmann|('''&#5839;''')]]</small> 12:29, 14 May 2005 (UTC)

* '''Categorify''' &mdash; [[User:Xiong|Xiong]][[Special:Emailuser/Xiong|<font color="#997749">&#29066;</font>]][[User talk:Xiong|talk]][[User:Xiong/Metatalk|<font color="#009900">*</font>]] 03:35, 2005 May 15 (UTC)

*It's very, very, very long! It overwhelms most articles that it is put in. The current version should be '''coverted to a category''', plus it probably could also be used for a new article ([[List of alphabets]]&mdash;which I just found out already exists, but the current article isn't as organized, nor is it annotated with dates&mdash;'''merge''' into List of alphabets). Then something like [[User:Jpbrenna]]'s example should '''replace''' the template. [[User:BlankVerse|<font color=green>''Blank''</font><font color= #F88017>''Verse''</font>]]<font color=#2554C7> </font>[[User talk:BlankVerse|<font color=#F660AB>&empty;</font> ]] 04:03, 15 May 2005 (UTC)

:::We already have [[:Category:Writing systems]] and subcategories and [[List of writing systems]]. --[[User:Pjacobi|Pjacobi]] 11:11, 2005 May 15 (UTC)

::::it's not supposed to be equivalent to any category. It's supposed to give an overview over ''selected'' important alphabets, and their genetic and chronological relations, which cannot be achieved by a category. Details shold be delegated to an article of course. templates take a position somewhere interemediate between mere category and full-blown (non-"List if") article. What should really be "categorized" are the countless "List of" articles which contain no information beyond alphabetical enumeration. 11:17, 15 May 2005 (UTC)

*'''Keep''' - Useful [[User:Bastique|'''<font size=+1>{{unicode|&#08492;}}</font>astique''']]<font size=+1 style="color:#FF72E3;">{{unicode|&#09660;}}</font>[[User talk:Bastique|'''^talk''']]

*'''Delete''' Too huge. In this case the categories do a better job. [[User:Oleg Alexandrov|Oleg Alexandrov]] 07:33, 18 May 2005 (UTC)

*'''Keep''' but reorganize. [[User:Trodel|Trodel]] 14:29, 20 May 2005 (UTC)

==== [[Template:Keydrive internals]] ====

(and redirect at [[Template:Fadertest]].)

This template, as far as I can tell, is/was used in [[keydrive]]. The information is valuable, but should be in the article body rather than in a template. [[User:Kail Ceannai|Kail Ceannai]] 04:39, 2005 May 13 (UTC)

* '''Delete''' - The creator explains the template on [[Image talk:Usbkey internals.jpg]]. He wanted to use the template to copy the text as the image description and everywhere a caption was needed, because of the numbering. Inventive, but doesn't fit with convention and isn't used as he intended ([[Keydrive#Keydrive Components]]). -- [[User:Netoholic|Netoholic]] [[User talk:Netoholic|@]] 05:32, 2005 May 13 (UTC)

** If the vote moves for deletion, '''admin''', please merge page histories with [[:Image:Usbkey internals.jpg]], since we should preserve the edit progression. -- [[User:Netoholic|Netoholic]] [[User talk:Netoholic|@]] 15:16, 2005 May 13 (UTC)

* '''Delete'''. This is redundant, following Kail's changes to [[keydrive]]. I was going to move the text to the image caption, but Netoholic beat me to it :) -- [[User:John Fader|John Fader]] ([[User talk:John Fader|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/John Fader|''contribs'']]) 11:34, 13 May 2005 (UTC)

* '''Subst and delete''' -[[User:Stevertigo|SV]]|[[User_talk:Stevertigo|t]] 04:58, 14 May 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete''', but note netoholic's comment about merging the history. -[[User:Frazzydee|Frazzydee]]|[[User talk:Frazzydee|&#9997;]] 04:35, 23 May 2005 (UTC)

=== May 12 ===

====[[Template:Pseudoprotected]]====

This template is not in use. It is also a misnomer since it doesn't have anything to do with protection. Finally, while the idea in principle may be good, I don't see it stopping edit wars in any way (it's tempting for one party to revert to that version, then slap on this template to stop the other party). Bottom line - we have reasonable mechanisms for revert wars and edit conflicts, and this isn't it. [[User:Radiant!|R]][[User_talk:Radiant!|adiant]][[meta:mergist|_*]] 14:33, May 12, 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete''' - I have mostly seen this used by people trying to freeze an article on their own version. - [[User:SimonP|SimonP]] 18:21, May 12, 2005 (UTC)

*'''Keep''' - this seems like a good idea to try to reduce the number of long-term protections. If the querelous abuse it, hit the querelous, not the template. [[User:Snowspinner|Snowspinner]] 18:43, May 12, 2005 (UTC)

**This turns out to be part of a ''rejected'' WikiPolicy ([[Wikipedia:Non-admin protection]]), so it should not actually be used IMHO. [[User:Radiant!|R]][[User_talk:Radiant!|adiant]][[meta:mergist|_*]] 19:01, May 12, 2005 (UTC)

***That vote says more about how poorly defined various levels of policy are rather than a desire not to use this template.

*'''Delete''' and put [[Template:Twoversions]] out to pasture with it. [[User:SchmuckyTheCat|SchmuckyTheCat]] 19:31, 12 May 2005 (UTC)

*'''Keep''', could probably use a rename though. [[User:JYolkowski|JYolkowski]] // [[User talk:JYolkowski|talk]] 02:06, 13 May 2005 (UTC)

**[[Template:Please don't edit this page]]? [[User:Radiant!|R]][[User_talk:Radiant!|adiant]][[meta:mergist|_*]] 07:44, May 13, 2005 (UTC)

* '''Delete.''' {{User:Rdsmith4/Sig}} 02:56, 13 May 2005 (UTC)

* '''Delete''', policy was rejected. -[[User:Gtrmp|Sean Curtin]] 00:18, May 14, 2005 (UTC)

* '''Delete - archive''' on its talk. There is [[Template:Inuse]] for "refrain from editing," There needs to be some consolodation, and this should be submitted to [[WP:TS]]. -[[User:Stevertigo|SV]]|[[User_talk:Stevertigo|t]] 05:02, 14 May 2005 (UTC)

*'''Keep'''. This is a polite way of saying ''"let's stop this silly [[Wikipedia:revert war|revert war]] and try to reach some sort of compromise on the talk page."'' It should be kept, and should be used much more often. Perhaps it should be adopted by the [[WP:HEC|Harmonious editing club]]. [[User:BlankVerse|<font color=green>''Blank''</font><font color= #F88017>''Verse''</font>]]<font color=#2554C7> </font>[[User talk:BlankVerse|<font color=#F660AB>&empty;</font> ]] 04:10, 15 May 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete'''. --[[User:Kbdank71|Kbdank71]] 13:29, 19 May 2005 (UTC)

==== [[Template:Protecteds]], and also [[Template:Tfds]] ====

Barely in use, and redundant with [[Template:Protected]] and [[Template:Tfd]] respectively. The creator believes in smaller versions of existing templates. That may or may not be a good idea, but it should be discussed (for instance here, or on the village pump) before xe unilaterally forks off new templates. [[User:Radiant!|R]][[User_talk:Radiant!|adiant]][[meta:mergist|_*]] 19:01, May 12, 2005 (UTC)

:The creator has put up [[Wikipedia:Template standardisation/Sizes]] to discuss the layout of the templates. That sounds good to me, but I hold that we should not have two different templates for the same function. [[User:Radiant!|R]][[User_talk:Radiant!|adiant]][[meta:mergist|_*]] 19:42, May 12, 2005 (UTC)

* '''Delete''' - The creator split these off because he has been repeatedly reverted (see history of [[Template:Tfd]]) and hasn't made a convincing arguement for change. I'm ready to file an RFC if he doesn't stop with this disruption. -- [[User:Netoholic|Netoholic]] [[User talk:Netoholic|@]] 20:35, 2005 May 12 (UTC)

*'''Keep''' I think Ive made a convincing argument, and Im glad that both of you have repeated these. I have not heard a convincing counterargument though &mdash;just assertions that 'verbosity is inherently superiour,' that 'there should be pre-consensus for anything to exist,' and that anything being Bold only applies if there is consensus &mdash;which is somehow best represented by the bottom feeding crew. Perhaps VFD pages serve a function other than giving people the kinky satisfaction of deleting something, but Im not quite sure what that is ATP. -[[User:Stevertigo|SV]]|[[User_talk:Stevertigo|t]] 21:40, 12 May 2005 (UTC)

** Dude, "being bold" is fine right up until someone tells you you're doing something wrong. After that, continuing to do the wrong thing and then invoking "being bold" is inappropriate. -- [[User:Netoholic|Netoholic]] [[User talk:Netoholic|@]] 21:49, 2005 May 12 (UTC)

***On the TFD template, there were four people sufficiently opposed to your proposal to revert, and I haven't seen any support as of yet. Being bold is laudable, but consensus appears opposed to this particular suggestion. As a side point, I oppose having two different template forks ''a lot stronger'' than I oppose your revision of the TFD template. The latter is a matter of taste, the former of principle. [[User:Radiant!|R]][[User_talk:Radiant!|adiant]][[meta:mergist|_*]] 07:44, May 13, 2005 (UTC)

*'''Move''' to userspace for further discussion. -[[User:MarSch|MarSch]] 14:23, 13 May 2005 (UTC)

* '''Comment''' well Im glad that the idea of choice is being considered. - Again, the apparent 'there should be pre-consensus for anything to exist' argument is a silly one, particularly if it suggests a ''process bias'' where the munch crew is much more keen to delete than make changes, Dude. -[[User:Stevertigo|SV]]|[[User_talk:Stevertigo|t]] 05:06, 14 May 2005 (UTC)

**Nobody claims there should be pre-consensus for anything to exist. Simple fact is that you want the existing template changed, and at present the majority opposes. That has nothing to do with process bias. [[User:Radiant!|R]][[User_talk:Radiant!|adiant]][[meta:mergist|_*]] 16:22, May 14, 2005 (UTC)

==== [[Template:Pnpov-d]] ====

Redundant with [[Template:TotallyDisputed]]. Creator believes "smaller is better" and made this rather than gain

consensus to change the established template. As an aside, the creator [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Pnpov-d&diff=next&oldid=13587286 reverted] my redirect and then [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&type=protect&user=Stevertigo&page=&limit=500&offset=0 protected] it, so that's why no TFD notice is on it yet. -- [[User:Netoholic|Netoholic]] [[User talk:Netoholic|@]] 02:59, 2005 May 12 (UTC)

* '''Delete'''. I don't think it's a good idea to have multiple, nonstandard versions of the 'official' cleanup templates. For what it's worth, I ''do'' think there's somthing to be said for the slimmer format, but a modified template should be discussed at [[Template talk:TotallyDisputed]](I also like the second variant of TotallyDisputed suggested on that page). --[[User:TenOfAllTrades|TenOfAllTrades]] <small>([[User_talk:TenOfAllTrades|talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/TenOfAllTrades|contrib]])</small> 12:41, 12 May 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete''', it ''is'' redundant, and for tricks like 'what links here' it is beneficial to have a single template for such disputes. Also, I think 'totally disputed' is not trivial, so deserves a bright red blinking screen-filling box. [[User:Radiant!|R]][[User_talk:Radiant!|adiant]][[meta:mergist|_*]] 13:43, May 12, 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete'''. Redundant. [[User:Jayjg|Jayjg ]]^{<font color="DarkGreen">[[User_talk:Jayjg|(talk)]]</font>} 18:48, 12 May 2005 (UTC)

*'''Keep''' Wikibureaucracy appears to be strong in this camp. Nuf said. See the Choices entry on [[WP:TS]]#Choices]] for more. -[[User:Stevertigo|SV]]|[[User_talk:Stevertigo|t]] 19:24, 12 May 2005 (UTC)

**How is it bureaucratic to want one template (rather than two) for one function?

*** Because it is. Where does it say "there must be one and one only" other than in the codices of Selbstbefriedigung bureaucracy? -[[User:Stevertigo|SV]]|[[User_talk:Stevertigo|t]] 05:31, 14 May 2005 (UTC)

[[User:Radiant!|R]][[User_talk:Radiant!|adiant]][[meta:mergist|_*]] 19:42, May 12, 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete'''. One template or nothing. Multiple are going to invite confusion or edit warring. Of all things to worry about on disputed articles, visual layout is the very last. But do edit

&#123;&#123;[[template:totallydisputed|totallydisputed]]&#125;&#125; if you're so inclined, of course. [[User:JRM|JRM]] · [[User talk:JRM|Talk]] 20:35, 2005 May 12 (UTC)

* '''Comment''' see [[Wikipedia talk:Template standardisation#A choice of sizes]]. ''The notion that its one way or the highway is rather hebetudious. -[[User:Stevertigo|SV]]|[[User_talk:Stevertigo|t]] 05:31, 14 May 2005 (UTC)

*: The notion that differently sized templates are needed to express that an article is totally disputed in a visually pleasing way is rather fastidious. I ''want'' that box to be as ugly and obvious as possible. What can I say? I'm a boring clod. Being a programmer might have made me too sensitive to the [http://catb.org/~esr/jargon/html/Z/Zero-One-Infinity-Rule.html Zero-One-Infinity rule] in this regard. If we have two templates for expressing this, why not three? Or four? Or one for every user with a new idea for layout? Can we start reverting each other to choose the most pleasing box? Can of worms. [[User:JRM|JRM]] · [[User talk:JRM|Talk]] 11:10, 2005 May 14 (UTC)

==== [[Template:Infobox pope/dead]] ====

This is a holdover from an odd bit of formatting used in [[Template:Infobox Pope]] to distinguish between living and dead popes (hiding the death information in living ones). Since this is likely only ever going to be one living pope at any one time, this is unnecessary and we can handle [[Pope Benedict XVI]] as an exception. This makes the template easier to implement, and saves a few bits and some processing power. -- [[User:Netoholic|Netoholic]] [[User talk:Netoholic|@]] 02:41, 2005 May 12 (UTC)

*'''Keep'''. Templates are more elegant than special-case hacks, and processing power is cheap. [[User:Firebug|Firebug]] 02:53, 12 May 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete''' [[User:Snowspinner|Snowspinner]] 02:59, May 12, 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete''', useless. [[User:Radiant!|R]][[User_talk:Radiant!|adiant]][[meta:mergist|_*]] 09:05, May 12, 2005 (UTC)

*'''Keep''', this is a useful technique: when editing the infobox, uniformity of the resulting lay-out (apart from the lines about the death) for the current pope and the former ones is maintained. This is not the case if two different infobox templates are used, or if for the current pope no template is used.--[[User:Patrick|Patrick]] 15:31, 12 May 2005 (UTC)

*'''Comment''' - this makes sense if the drag on the server is significant but people have claimed different things - is there a definitive answer? <small>[[User:Trödel|Trödel]]|<font color="C000C0">[[User_talk:Trödel|talk]]</font></small> 14:51, 13 May 2005 (UTC)

*'''Keep'''. [[Image:levelchecksig.png|150px]]

* '''Delete - archive''' on talk -[[User:Stevertigo|SV]]|[[User_talk:Stevertigo|t]] 05:32, 14 May 2005 (UTC)

* '''Keep''' {{User:Rdsmith4/Sig}} 14:54, 14 May 2005 (UTC)

*'''Keep''' I am voting keep since I didn't get a definative answer re drag on the server {{User:Trödel/sig}} 23:13, 14 May 2005 (UTC)

=== May 11 ===

==== [[Template:Comicbookpub-stub]] ====

Stub category contained only four stubs, with no potential to grow. Stubs resorted into [[:Category:Comics stubs]], [[:Category:Comic Book Publisher stubs|equivalent category]] also on [[WP:CFD]] - [[User:SoM|SoM]] 18:34, 11 May 2005 (UTC)

*'''Keep and NOOB''' -- this is within the ___domain of [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Stub sorting]]. This WikiProject was established to vet stubs and we should let them do it. They don't need to ask for our help or permission. Any user who wishes to comment on this should do so at [[Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Stub sorting]]. &mdash; [[User:Xiong|Xiong]][[Special:Emailuser/Xiong|<font color="#997749">&#29066;</font>]][[User talk:Xiong|talk]][[User:Xiong/Metatalk|<font color="#009900">*</font>]] 23:55, 2005 May 11 (UTC)

** Stop disrupting this page with this "NOOB" nonsense. Template deletion is the scope of this page. -- [[User:Netoholic|Netoholic]] [[User talk:Netoholic|@]] 02:14, 2005 May 12 (UTC)

***Xiong's addition of ''NOOB'' is as much within the scope of acceptable additions as are stub templates within the scope of this page. Stop attacking people for speaking their mind, Netoholic. [[User:Ceyockey|Courtland]] 23:43, 2005 May 20 (UTC)

**If and when sfd is up and running, what Xiong says will be true. For now, though WP:WSS can only advise on what we think should be deleted. Things are debated at WP:WSS but then (if the project thinks deletion should be undertaken) they must be sent here for vote, so yes, tfd's permission is still needed. (oh, and '''delete''') [[User:Grutness|Grutness]]...<font color=green><small>''[[User_talk:Grutness|wha?</small>''</font>]] 06:04, 12 May 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete''' -- [[User:Netoholic|Netoholic]] [[User talk:Netoholic|@]] 02:14, 2005 May 12 (UTC)

*'''Delete''' Does not meet the [[WP:WSS|Stub-sorting WikiProject]] criteria for creation or keeping. A quick check at [[:Category:Comics stubs]] shows that there are very few Comic Book publishers among the ~450 articles in the category. (BTW: The # of articles in the category should shrink considerably if appropriate articles were retagged with [[Template:Marvel-Comics-stub|Marvel]] and [[Template:DC-Comics-stub|DC comic-stubs]].) [[User:BlankVerse|<font color=green>''Blank''</font><font color= #F88017>''Verse''</font>]]<font color=#2554C7> </font>[[User talk:BlankVerse|<font color=#F660AB>&empty;</font> ]] 04:47, 12 May 2005 (UTC)

::'''Comment''' As someone who's personally sorted a hefty proportion, if not the majority, of the stubs in [[:Category:Marvel Comics stubs]] and [[:Category:DC Comics stubs]], I can honestly say it won't shrink considerably, since most of the Marvel & DC ones ARE sorted already (Glancing through, there are a few new ones there since I last looked, but even adding the comic-creators, you're still well into 2 pages at least) - [[User:SoM|SoM]] 20:49, 12 May 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete''', very much our business, and no longer a useful template per WPSS. Xiong should stop turning Wikipedia into a bureaucracy. [[User:Radiant!|R]][[User_talk:Radiant!|adiant]][[meta:mergist|_*]] 09:05, May 12, 2005 (UTC)

* Delete. It's a template, of course it's our business; death to bureaucracy. {{User:Rdsmith4/Sig}} 02:58, 13 May 2005 (UTC)

==== [[Template:Tfdnotice]] ====

A template designed to post notices on people's pages about templates being nominated for deletion on this page - created by someone who believes there is [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Stevertigo&diff=prev&oldid=13551265 "''extreme''"] and [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Firebug&diff=next&oldid=13550766 "''rabid''"] deletionism on WP:TFD. Misuse of the [[Wikipedia:Template namespace|Template namespace]]. -- [[User:Netoholic|Netoholic]] [[User talk:Netoholic|@]] 15:01, 2005 May 11 (UTC)

** '''Comment''' "misuse of the template namespace?" Really? An informative notice to people who may not have looked at the thing (to see an oversized sticker on it) is somehow a misuse? It looks more like a courtesy! And the choice to not use it looks more like laziness and discourtesy. -[[User:Stevertigo|SV]]|[[User_talk:Stevertigo|t]] 05:54, 14 May 2005 (UTC)

* '''Delete''' as overkill. [[User:Filiocht|Filiocht]] | [[User talk:Filiocht|Blarneyman]] 15:17, May 11, 2005 (UTC)

* '''Delete''', and we really ought to have a policy against vote stacking. [[User:Radiant!|R]][[User_talk:Radiant!|adiant]][[meta:mergist|_*]] 15:18, May 11, 2005 (UTC)

*'''Keep''', seems convenient. [[User:Kappa|Kappa]] 15:19, 11 May 2005 (UTC)

*'''Keep''', useful template. There's nothing wrong with letting people know a vote is taking place. Nor is there any reason for the Template namespace to be so jealously guarded. If multiple Wikipedians could find a template useful, it should be retained. [[User:Firebug|Firebug]] 19:40, 11 May 2005 (UTC)

*'''Comment'''. Seems harmless, but is probably unnecessary. --[[User:TenOfAllTrades|TenOfAllTrades]] <small>([[User_talk:TenOfAllTrades|talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/TenOfAllTrades|contrib]])</small> 22:05, 11 May 2005 (UTC)

* '''Keep''' (Disclosure: I am the creator.) -- I find it interesting that a template whose purpose it is to call attention to ''this'' process is itself attacked ''here''. The most effective defense of this process' legitimacy is widespread use of &#123;&#123;[[template:tfdnotice|tfdnotice]]&#125;&#125;. Have we something to hide? &mdash; [[User:Xiong|Xiong]][[Special:Emailuser/Xiong|<font color="#997749">&#29066;</font>]][[User talk:Xiong|talk]][[User:Xiong/Metatalk|<font color="#009900">*</font>]] 23:37, 2005 May 11 (UTC)

* Delete. {{User:Rdsmith4/Sig}} 00:09, 12 May 2005 (UTC)

* '''Keep'''. Template creators should be notified when their templates are nominated at TFD, as a common courtesy if not by policy. It is helpful to have a template that facilitates that. (And any affected WikiProjects, article talk pages, etc. should be notified as well.) [[User:BlankVerse|<font color=green>''Blank''</font><font color= #F88017>''Verse''</font>]]<font color=#2554C7> </font>[[User talk:BlankVerse|<font color=#F660AB>&empty;</font> ]] 03:23, 12 May 2005 (UTC)

** Note that if the creator still cares about the template, he would have it on his watchlist. [[User:Radiant!|R]][[User_talk:Radiant!|adiant]][[meta:mergist|_*]] 09:05, May 12, 2005 (UTC)

***Even with the template in their [[Wikipedia:watchlist|watchlist]], the template creator might miss the placement of the [[template:tfd|TFD notice]], either because there were more edits after the placement, or the person who added the TFD notice may have forgotten to fill out the [[Wikipedia:edit summary|edit summary]]. [[User:BlankVerse|<font color=green>''Blank''</font><font color= #F88017>''Verse''</font>]]<font color=#2554C7> </font>[[User talk:BlankVerse|<font color=#F660AB>&empty;</font> ]] 12:11, 12 May 2005 (UTC)

****Okay, that's true. However, while notifying the template's creator would be the polite thing to do, the existence of this template in no way guarantees that or even makes it likely. [[User:Radiant!|R]][[User_talk:Radiant!|adiant]][[meta:mergist|_*]] 13:45, May 12, 2005 (UTC)

*****Anything that makes the task easier to do is welcome in my book. I suggest that we should keep it for now, and see if anyone besides its creator makes use of it. If nobody uses it, we can always revisit the issue in a few months. [[User:BlankVerse|<font color=green>''Blank''</font><font color= #F88017>''Verse''</font>]]<font color=#2554C7> </font>[[User talk:BlankVerse|<font color=#F660AB>&empty;</font> ]] 15:18, 13 May 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete'''. Misuse of templates. --[[User:Carnildo|Carnildo]] 20:25, 12 May 2005 (UTC)

* '''Keep''' if only for the reason that it would require being used, and then become a part of TFD policy. Yes, it would require some courtesy - poo hoo. -[[User:Stevertigo|SV]]|[[User_talk:Stevertigo|t]] 05:54, 14 May 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete''' because helping people who like to spam my talkpage to curry my vote serves to make me stabby. [[User:Snowspinner|Snowspinner]] 03:20, May 15, 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete'''. I appreciate the purpose of improving notification of deletion nominations. However a template is the wrong way to proceed. For one thing, what will happen to talk pages when we delete this, or if its wording is changed? A "subst" template may be acceptable, since it is unchanging once saved. -[[User:Willmcw|Willmcw]] 23:17, May 18, 2005 (UTC)

*'''Keep''', it's a nice courtesy to let them know. -[[User:Frazzydee|Frazzydee]]|[[User talk:Frazzydee|&#9997;]] 11:13, 21 May 2005 (UTC)

==== [[:Template:Cfd-howto]]====

This template was only used in the [[WP:CFD]] page. Since that page has recently been restructured with subpages, the Howto template has been SUBST'ed into there to ease server load. Thus, there is no further need of the separate template. [[User:Radiant!|R]][[User_talk:Radiant!|adiant]][[meta:mergist|_*]] 08:38, May 11, 2005 (UTC)

* '''Keep and NOOB''' -- This template is used by the folks at CfD; it never appears outside of that process. They should have the final say over it, and we should stay out of their business. Suggest you bring it up, if you like, ''at'' CfD -- perhaps on [[Wikipedia Talk:Categories for deletion]]. &mdash; [[User:Xiong|Xiong]][[Special:Emailuser/Xiong|<font color="#997749">&#29066;</font>]][[User talk:Xiong|talk]][[User:Xiong/Metatalk|<font color="#009900">*</font>]] 09:06, 2005 May 11 (UTC)

**I '''am''' one of the folks at CfD. A template of which only one instance will ever be used is not necessarily useful. [[User:Radiant!|R]][[User_talk:Radiant!|adiant]][[meta:mergist|_*]] 10:37, May 11, 2005 (UTC)

**What's a ''NOOB''...or am I one for asking? --[[User:TenOfAllTrades|TenOfAllTrades]] <small>([[User_talk:TenOfAllTrades|talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/TenOfAllTrades|contrib]])</small> 12:57, 11 May 2005 (UTC)

***"None Of Our Business", which is plainly wrong since it's in template namespace and therefore may be put on TFD. If Xiong thinks it isn't his business, he shouldn't vote on it. Other people can decide for themselves whether or not it is their business. [[User:Radiant!|R]][[User_talk:Radiant!|adiant]][[meta:mergist|_*]] 13:47, May 11, 2005 (UTC)

**** Ah. Well, since there's now a notice on the WP:CFD Talk page, and someone has proposed deletion of the template in question, and this page ''is'' Templates for deletion...is it now our business? --[[User:TenOfAllTrades|TenOfAllTrades]] <small>([[User_talk:TenOfAllTrades|talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/TenOfAllTrades|contrib]])</small> 23:06, 11 May 2005 (UTC)

***** No, it is not now our business. The good people at CfD are empowered to deal with their own process. We have already established that one XfD process has no jurisdiction over another; the precedent has been set. &mdash; [[User:Xiong|Xiong]][[Special:Emailuser/Xiong|<font color="#997749">&#29066;</font>]][[User talk:Xiong|talk]][[User:Xiong/Metatalk|<font color="#009900">*</font>]] 23:48, 2005 May 11 (UTC)

****** How was that established? Are you talking about the [[Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/Templates for deletion|nomination of the TfD page on VfD]]? If so, that was a nomination to delete the entire TfD page without any discussion of policy or a mechanism to replace it. I suggest that basing a NOOB argument on that case would be an apples to oranges comparison. In this case, we seem to be looking at a template whose text is used in only one place&mdash;to which it has now been ''subst:''ed. Rather than maintaining two copies of the text (and running the risk that one will diverge from the other and result in future confusion), I would argue it makes sense to clear out the no-longer-needed template. Nobody is suggesting a major policy change on CfD; in fact the removal of the template won't have any effect on CfD whatsoever. --[[User:TenOfAllTrades|TenOfAllTrades]] <small>([[User_talk:TenOfAllTrades|talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/TenOfAllTrades|contrib]])</small> 01:53, 12 May 2005 (UTC)

*******I have a strong feeling that if CFD were to decide they no longer need the template, then Xiong would pop up there and say "Hey, you can't do that, templates may only be deleted on TfD!". [[WP:NOT]] a bureaucracy. [[User:Radiant!|R]][[User_talk:Radiant!|adiant]][[meta:mergist|_*]] 09:05, May 12, 2005 (UTC)

********This is ridiculous. If the creators of it came here and said - "were not using this anymore" then Xiong of course woundnt object. There needs to be a firewall to keep the deleteophiles from making rash imposing decisions about how other units deal with stuff. NOOB may not be it, but the issue is informing people about the TFD - I suggest doing it formally by contacting the people whove used it. This ties in with the [[Wikipedia:Huge templates|Huge templates]] problem - oversized explanatory messages are just a lazy excuse for making contact and inquiring. There should be a distinction between deletion and delete-archive. -[[User:Stevertigo|SV]]|[[User_talk:Stevertigo|t]] 05:49, 14 May 2005 (UTC)

*********No, you are wrong. CfD has been heavily restructured recently, for which I am to some extent responsible. Hence, I know exactly what I'm talking about when I say that this template is no longer useful. The same reasoning applies with [[Template:substub]] - Xiong has wrongly [[WP:FAITH|assumed]] that this hadn't been discussed on WPSS earlier, and that they were unaware of its pending deletion. [[User:Radiant!|R]][[User_talk:Radiant!|adiant]][[meta:mergist|_*]] 16:17, May 14, 2005 (UTC)

* '''Delete''' -- [[User:Netoholic|Netoholic]] [[User talk:Netoholic|@]] 15:04, 2005 May 11 (UTC)

* '''Comment''' - Xiong is right, but if its not being used theres no need for it. I think I was the one who did that just because it was a load to deal with - Im not per se "one of them" either. Reintegration is certainly a good idea - its not a question of "deletionism" then, - its reintegrationism where differentiation is not necessary. -[[User:Stevertigo|SV]]|[[User_talk:Stevertigo|t]] 00:47, 12 May 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete'''. Template is not currently in use and will not be used in the future. --[[User:Carnildo|Carnildo]] 20:29, 12 May 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete'''. I'm visiting from CfD, as well. This was a block of instructional text that [[User:Stevertigo]] moved to a template that was transcluded onto the page. It's now been subst'd back into the page. Since this was a useless template from the outset, I see no reason to keep it around.

--[[User:Azkar|Azkar]] 03:46, 13 May 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete''', not helpful, not used. -- [[User:Rick Block|Rick Block]] 18:54, 13 May 2005 (UTC)

* '''Delete-archive''' - ask them what to do with it. -[[User:Stevertigo|SV]]|[[User_talk:Stevertigo|t]] 05:49, 14 May 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete''': if it's only needed on one page, it's better just to subst it. -[[User:Frazzydee|Frazzydee]]|[[User talk:Frazzydee|&#9997;]] 16:05, 22 May 2005 (UTC)

==== [[Template:JSTOR]] ====

Template used to generate a link to an external site. -- [[User:Netoholic|Netoholic]] [[User talk:Netoholic|@]] 00:56, 2005 May 11 (UTC)

:: Look, I'm sure the source is legitimate and valid. What I'd like voters to consider is whether Wikipedia should have templates for each and every potential legitimate web source. A better, and already existing, mechanism to use is [[meta:Interwiki map]]. -- [[User:Netoholic|Netoholic]] [[User talk:Netoholic|@]] 02:45, 2005 May 11 (UTC)

''vote tally for a lengthy posting ... [[User:Ceyockey|Courtland]] 23:49, 2005 May 20 (UTC)''

::* '''keep''': 6

::** SV, xiong, angela, dunc, stalbach, silsor

::* '''delete''': 3

::** snowspinner, filocht, courtland

* I'm inclined to say '''keep'''; JSTOR is a valuable independent resource, and having a quick way to add the links has some value. Whether it should be transcluded or ''subst:''ed into articles is another question. --[[User:TenOfAllTrades|TenOfAllTrades]] <small>([[User_talk:TenOfAllTrades|talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/TenOfAllTrades|contrib]])</small> 01:23, 11 May 2005 (UTC)

* '''Keep''' Academic journal since 1985 - not arxiv, but worthy.-[[User:Stevertigo|SV]]|[[User_talk:Stevertigo|t]] 02:14, 11 May 2005 (UTC)

* <s>'''Delete'''</s> - Wikipedia users who are not part of an academic institution can't access JSTOR anyway. [[User:FreplySpang|FreplySpang]] [[User talk:FreplySpang|(talk)]] 03:05, 11 May 2005 (UTC)

** '''Abstain''' - I don't like the template, but I see that it is similar to citing a journal article that is not generally available outside academic institutions. [[User:FreplySpang|FreplySpang]] [[User talk:FreplySpang|(talk)]] 14:06, 12 May 2005 (UTC)

* '''Keep''' -- It is a little misleading to provide a link to a restricted external site. But I suspect most public and college library users can access it. The concern is ameliorated by the fact that the template links to [[JSTOR]] itself, which explains. It should not be substituted, because all such citations should follow exactly the same format, and that format may be improved in future. &mdash; [[User:Xiong|Xiong]][[Special:Emailuser/Xiong|<font color="#997749">&#29066;</font>]][[User talk:Xiong|talk]][[User:Xiong/Metatalk|<font color="#009900">*</font>]] 09:16, 2005 May 11 (UTC)

*'''Keep'''. Using the interwiki map in that way will make it a lot harder for reusers of our content to have working links. They're more likely to have a copy of a template on the English Wikipedia than a copy of the interwiki map from another site. [[User:Angela|Angela]][[user talk:Angela|.]] 12:08, May 11, 2005 (UTC)

** If we're too terribly concerned about reusers, then consider this: they are more likely to want to have plain article text, so they don't have to maintain the templates for (eventually thousands of) external site links. I know this may be seen as [[slippery slope]] fallacy, but are we going to get in the business of creating and implementing a template for any and all potential external link targets? Why not just post the external link simply, and avoid using a template altogether? -- [[User:Netoholic|Netoholic]] [[User talk:Netoholic|@]] 14:54, 2005 May 11 (UTC)

*'''Delete''' - templates obscure things for inexperienced editors. Unless there's a really pressing need to edit something simultaneously on multiple pages, or to generate boilerplate text that appears on thousands of articles, we shouldn't use a template for it. [[User:Snowspinner|Snowspinner]] 15:05, May 11, 2005 (UTC)

*'''Strong delete''': why, apart from the odd notion that most readers will be using a PC in a library with access, would we be linking to a restricted access journal in the first place? [[User:Filiocht|Filiocht]] | [[User talk:Filiocht|Blarneyman]] 15:15, May 11, 2005 (UTC)

*'''Strong keep'''. It is useful to a significant proportion of users. With regard to the [[ideology]] of this whole project, it is worth noting that JSTOR is a charitable organisation that aims to disseminate information, much like the [[Wikimedia Foundation]], but that because of its specialist role in publishing old journal articles they have chosen a different funding route. That funding route does unfortunately penalise individual users, but without it there would simply be no JSTOR. For comparison purposes, the [[Internet Movie Database]] is owned by the <sarcasm> really socially conscious</sarcasm> [[Amazon.com]] and is extensively linked to by [[template:imdb]]. In addition, having a template keeps the external links looking uniform and professional. [[User:Duncharris|Dunc]]|[[User talk:duncharris|&#9786;]] 15:42, 11 May 2005 (UTC)

*'''Keep'''. I access JSTOR from my home computer for free. Anyone can, just get a library card from a participating library. The arguments that this is only usable by a subset of people are incorrect, it is open to anyone, for free, who knows how to get a library card. I believe the [[JSTOR]] article mentions that. Also as an aside, please weigh in on the current dispute on [[Talk:JSTOR]] if the image should be on the left or right side, it would be helpful to have other opinions than just [[User:Duncharris|Dunc]]. [[User:Stbalbach|Stbalbach]] 16:39, 11 May 2005 (UTC)

*'''Keep''', harmless template, useful. JSTOR is an acceptable way to assist users in finding journals. What is this, the Template Inquisition? [[User:Silsor|silsor]] 13:49, May 12, 2005 (UTC)

**Yes. Templates are a pain in the ass. They're confusing to new editors and they strain the database. When there is a pressing need for standardization (Like the stub templates) or a meaningful level of complexity (Pink box templates, infobox templates) it's one thing. This is not sufficiently complex to make putting <nowiki>{{random stuff}}</nowiki> into an article a meaningful timesaver, and so instead we just leave what is, albeit a small one, a database drain and a confusing chunk of text in an article. [[User:Snowspinner|Snowspinner]] 14:12, May 12, 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete'''. There exist a number of specific-source templates, found [[Wikipedia:Template_messages/Sources_of_articles#Citations_of_specific_sources|here]]. I've only checked a couple of the resources, but the trend is for these resources to provide their information freely to the public (not public ___domain, but public access). This cannot be said for JSTOR, which serves as my primary basis for calling for deletion ... consistency in the templated access to specific external resources. A second reason is that the template seems to provide less information to the reader than {{tl|Journal reference}}, which could be used to cite the same manuscripts citable using {{tl|JSTOR}}. [[User:Ceyockey|Courtland]] 22:01, 2005 May 16 (UTC)

==== [[Template:NNDB]] ====

Orphaned, template used to generate a link to an external site. <s>A better, and already existing, mechanism to use is [[meta:Interwiki map]].</s> It's better just to put the plain link in place, because it's less obscure for new users. -- [[User:Netoholic|Netoholic]] [[User talk:Netoholic|@]] 00:53, 2005 May 11 (UTC)

*

*

=== May 9 ===

====[[:Template:VfDx]]====

A special template that indicates how many times an article has earlier been nominated for VfD sounds to me like needless instruction creep. [[User:Radiant!|R]][[User_talk:Radiant!|adiant]][[meta:mergist|_*]] 10:50, May 9, 2005 (UTC)

''vote tally (9 May to 12 May) ... [[User:Ceyockey|Courtland]] 23:53, 2005 May 20 (UTC)''

::* '''keep''': 2

::** rossami, superdude

::* '''delete''': 3

::** alphax, carnildo, dan

* I thought so too until I was asked three times within a week for instructions on how to create a second (or third) nomination without screwing up the prior archived discussions. Most times, nominators just blank the prior discussion - creating confusion for everyone. Whenever I discover them, I try to repair the nomination. Preservation of the prior discussions is important. So far, I've resisted forcing my procedure into any of the policy pages because I am also concerned about instruction creep. But making a template available to someone who wants an easy way to repair the nomination seems like a pretty cheap solution. I'd like to argue to '''keep''' the template as a harmless and occasionally helpful variation of an approved version ''if'' someone will step forward and promise to keep it's wording in synch with the main VfD template. [[User:Rossami|Rossami]] [[User talk:Rossami|(talk)]] 13:26, 9 May 2005 (UTC)

**That sounds like a good reason... but given this template won't be widespread in use (there aren't that many articles VfD'd twice), wouldn't it be easier to explain to move-and-refer-to the previous VfD, than to explain to use this template? [[User:Radiant!|R]][[User_talk:Radiant!|adiant]][[meta:mergist|_*]] 07:55, May 10, 2005 (UTC)

* Sometimes, votes for deletion that occur again on an article that has been nominated before might get jerked up. Therefore, I created a variation of the deletion template to disambiguate that. So '''keep''' it. --[[User:SuperDude115|SuperDude]] 18:22, 9 May 2005 (UTC)

* Since &#123;&#123;[[template:vfd|vfd]]&#125;&#125; is ''always'' substitued (or at least should be), it is a simple matter to edit the resulting text to include a number in the linked VFD page. Since it will (almost always) be out of synch with &#123;&#123;[[template:vfd|vfd]]&#125;&#125;, I say '''delete'''. [[User:Alphax|Alphax]]&nbsp;<sup >[[User talk:Alphax|&tau;]][[Special:Emailuser/Alphax|&epsilon;]][[Special:Contributions/Alphax|&chi;]]</sup > 00:16, 10 May 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete'''. Most people who are nominating an article for its second (third, fourth) VfD aren't aware of earlier VfDs, and won't know to use this template. --[[User:Carnildo|Carnildo]] 07:34, 11 May 2005 (UTC)

* Delete. {{User:Rdsmith4/Sig}} 00:12, 12 May 2005 (UTC)

* Since {{tl|vfd}} is always substed, it doesn't hurt to have a handy template like this, especially since editing text in the normal vfd template requires saving the page and then editing it again. [[User:Zocky|Zocky]] 17:31, 21 May 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete''', although it might be helpful to have a little box to put on the top of an article's talk page that says "This article has been listed on VFD ''n'' times" -[[User:Frazzydee|Frazzydee]]|[[User talk:Frazzydee|&#9997;]] 16:04, 22 May 2005 (UTC)

=== May 5 ===

==== [[Template:Color dot]] ====

I don't get it. This is linked from nowhere, has no talk page, has 1 contributor, and appears to have no apparant use. [[User:Alphax|Alphax]]&nbsp;<sup >[[User talk:Alphax|&tau;]][[Special:Emailuser/Alphax|&epsilon;]][[Special:Contributions/Alphax|&chi;]]</sup > 14:41, 5 May 2005 (UTC)

''vote tally (5 May to 9 May) ... [[User:Ceyockey|Courtland]] 23:57, 2005 May 20 (UTC)''

::* '''userfy''': 2

::** xiong, alphax (nominator)

::* '''delete''': 4

::** zzyzx11, k1bond007, grutness, radiant

* '''Comment'''. What I'd like to know is, how on Earth did you find this? [[User:JRM|JRM]] · [[User talk:JRM|Talk]] 18:45, 2005 May 5 (UTC)

**Trying to answer [[Wikipedia:Wikifun|Wikifun]] question 5. [[User:Alphax|Alphax]]&nbsp;<sup >[[User talk:Alphax|&tau;]][[Special:Emailuser/Alphax|&epsilon;]][[Special:Contributions/Alphax|&chi;]]</sup > 10:33, 8 May 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete'''. Hasn't seemed to have been used in over a month. [[User:Zzyzx11|Zzyzx11]] [[User talk:Zzyzx11|(Talk)]] 22:04, 5 May 2005 (UTC)

**Actually, since August 2004... but it might have, with substitution. [[User:Alphax|Alphax]]&nbsp;<sup >[[User talk:Alphax|&tau;]][[Special:Emailuser/Alphax|&epsilon;]][[Special:Contributions/Alphax|&chi;]]</sup > 10:33, 8 May 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete''', appears useless [[User:K1Bond007|K1Bond007]] 06:58, May 6, 2005 (UTC)

*There are times, looking at some templates, when I ask myself "why would anyone ever have considered that useful?" This is one of those times. '''Delete'''. [[User:Grutness| Grutness]]|^{[[User_talk:Grutness|hello?]]} [[Image:Grutness.jpg|25px|]] 08:08, 6 May 2005 (UTC)

*'''Keep''' -- or at worst, '''userfy'''. True that nothing appears to link to this template. Perhaps it has never been transcluded. Perhaps its creator invariably substitutes it, in which case its use does no conceivable harm. True it appears useless. I do not understand this template, so I will not be so headstrong as to ''condemn what I do not understand''. The creator's contribs show a history of short periods of intense editing, widely spaced. I am inclined to believe that, as usual, {tfd} tagging has not had its intended effect, and the template's creator has not been noticed of this TfD nomination. I have ''repaired this error'' and commented on user talk. Perhaps when the creator has had a fair opportunity to ''defend his work'', we may wish to revisit this nomination. &mdash; [[User:Xiong|Xiong]][[Special:Emailuser/Xiong|<font color="#997749">&#29066;</font>]][[User talk:Xiong|talk]][[User:Xiong/Metatalk|<font color="#009900">*</font>]] 09:15, 2005 May 6 (UTC)

**Good point. Since I haven't actually voted, I'll say '''userfy'''. [[User:Alphax|Alphax]]&nbsp;<sup >[[User talk:Alphax|&tau;]][[Special:Emailuser/Alphax|&epsilon;]][[Special:Contributions/Alphax|&chi;]]</sup > 10:33, 8 May 2005 (UTC)

{{color dot|red}} Amazing! it works: <nowiki>{{color dot|red}}</nowiki>. -- User:Docu

*'''Delete''', useless. [[User:Radiant!|R]][[User_talk:Radiant!|adiant]][[meta:mergist|_*]] 11:08, May 9, 2005 (UTC)

==== [[Template:EU 10]] and [[Template:EU coins]] ====

Both are in serious violation of the guideline in [[Wikipedia:Template_namespace]] that templates shouldn't be masquerading as article content. These templates were used to replace long initial paragraphs in a series of articles that should have instead been individualized. The creation and insertion of these specific templates makes said individualization impossible. [[User:Aris Katsaris|Aris Katsaris]] 11:38, May 5, 2005 (UTC)

I think these two templates should be treated separately. I agree with Aris on the EU 10 but I'm not sure about EU coins. [[User:Parmaestro|Parmaestro]] 11:44, 5 May 2005 (UTC)

EU 10 template is no longer in use. [[User:Parmaestro|Parmaestro]] 12:25, 5 May 2005 (UTC)

'''Moved discussion from [[User_talk:Aris Katsaris]]'''

As I usually agree with almost all your decisions? I'm curious about your opinion of template use. I don't find it particularly hard to edit templates. It seems to me that when you have a dozen or so articles with identical text and especially where this text will be needed to edited in the future because of upcoming changes that it makes sense to have one template that can be edited/updated/corrected as necessary rather than making the identical edits/corrections/updates to a dozen or more texts. Wouldn't you agree ? [[User:Parmaestro|Parmaestro]] 11:36, 5 May 2005 (UTC)

: Templates are usually good to use, but always in places where the text will *necessarily* be identical. Where it is *good* that it should be identical. This case however is different -- the initial paragraphs of each article should be individual to that article, and if anything these templates worsen and make permanent what was already a not-very-nice redundancy and repetition. Moreover large templates must make themselves obvious as templates: As [[Wikipedia:Template_namespace]] says: "Templates should not masquerade as article content in the main article namespace". [[User:Aris Katsaris|Aris Katsaris]] 11:42, May 5, 2005 (UTC)

::We seem to be in agreement than about te use of templates. I completely agree with you about the EU-10 template. The only apparent difference we might have is in the application to this specific series of articles. The initial paragraphs in these articles all include an introduction about the euro before discussing the items that specific to the article. Should those introductary paragraphs be deleted and just start with those items that are individual to tha article ? If not and if we are still going to include the same introductory paragraphs, we'd be better off with the template. Or maybe you have a better solution than these two ideas.

::: Since I added the templates to [[Wikipedia:Templates for deletion]] it'd be better if we took the discussion there, if you will. Feel free to move both my comments and yours there, if you want to, or I can do it, if you have no objections. I think that the introductory paragraphs should be as small as possible, and the relevant information in them (and part of it *is* relevant, e.g. when talking about the other side that is in common) perhaps combined with the rest of the text. Turning it into a template makes this introduction permanent however in a way that I don't think it should be made. Moreover, the specific content of the template was itself lacking, as it actually *enlarged* the repeated non-specific information in them, e.g. by adding mention of the circulation dates that hadn't existed formerly. The content of the templates ended up speaking about the whole of the Eurozone, even adding mention about Kosovo or Montenegro!! Egads. But as I said it's more than the specific content that bothered me, it was the nature of the templates themselves. That's why I didn't just edit them but tfd them instead. [[User:Aris Katsaris|Aris Katsaris]] 12:09, May 5, 2005 (UTC)

:::: I agree with what you are saying. I've already replaced the template with text for EU 10. This template is not in use anywhere now. Although I agree with you that one is not interested in Andorra when reading an article about Belgian coins, I think it is germane to talk about where the euro is a currency which is why the article starts out with saying that it used in the twelve Eurozone member states. I think it's particluarly relevant when there are euro coins from the Vatican, San Marino and Monaco. I agree with you that introductory paragraph should be as short as possible. Are you saying that even if the text is identical, it's better not to use a template even though it means that all the articles would have to be edited separately? [[User:Parmaestro|Parmaestro]] 12:20, 5 May 2005 (UTC)

::::: It's a judgement call which I'm afraid I don't have the time to analyze much further right this moment. I'm moving this discussion to the relevant section of Templates for deletion, so that others can enter the argument also. Please add further comments there. [[User:Aris Katsaris|Aris Katsaris]] 12:34, May 5, 2005 (UTC)

''vote tally (6 May to 10 May) ... [[User:Ceyockey|Courtland]] 00:01, 2005 May 21 (UTC)''

::* '''keep''': 1

::** xiong

::* '''delete''': 2

::** radiant, alphax

*Note that Xiong said to 'keep temporarily', and you may also count the nominator (Parmaestro) as a vote to delete. [[User:Radiant!|R]][[User_talk:Radiant!|adiant]][[meta:mergist|_*]] 09:14, May 23, 2005 (UTC)

* '''Keep''' -- however, my vote is ''not'' an endorsement of this template. The template should be '''kept temporarily''' while larger issues are resolved, then '''deleted'''. Templates should ''not'' generally contain boilerplate article content, for the reason that articles themselves should not generally contain duplicate content ''at all''. The mere existence of this template calls into question the entire series of repetitive articles which include it -- all of which, perhaps, should be merged into a single article. &mdash; [[User:Xiong|Xiong]][[Special:Emailuser/Xiong|<font color="#997749">&#29066;</font>]][[User talk:Xiong|talk]][[User:Xiong/Metatalk|<font color="#009900">*</font>]] 09:25, 2005 May 6 (UTC)

*'''Delete''', that's not what templates are for. [[User:Radiant!|R]][[User_talk:Radiant!|adiant]][[meta:mergist|_*]] 11:11, May 9, 2005 (UTC)

* '''Delete''' and '''merge''' articles. [[User:Alphax|Alphax]]&nbsp;<sup >[[User talk:Alphax|&tau;]][[Special:Emailuser/Alphax|&epsilon;]][[Special:Contributions/Alphax|&chi;]]</sup > 00:31, 10 May 2005 (UTC)

=== May 4 ===

==== [[Template:PD-Germany]] ====

The text is wrong, or at least very very misleading. The law cited applies to nearly none of the pictures suitable for an encyclopedia (it's for the likes of passport photographs or maybe a few holiday snapshots). See the [[Template talk:PD-Germany|template discussion page]]. --[[User:AndreasPraefcke|AndreasPraefcke]] 17:51, 4 May 2005 (UTC) (I have editited your nomination to conform to en:Wikipedia:TfD standards. --Xiong.)

* '''Delete''' -- Wikipedia is not local. It is unclear to me that a photograph, say, taken within the national borders of Germany is protected merely by German copyright law -- or, for that matter, that a photograph taken within US borders is protected by American copyright law only. The entire area of copyright law is a morass and its application to a website hosted in the State of Florida yet used throughout the world ''not'' a matter which ''anyone'' is qualified to address -- the law simply is not settled, and may not be for many many years. For now, I rather suspect, any assertion of &#123;&#123;[[template:PD|PD]]&#125;&#125; is either sufficient -- or not. &mdash; [[User:Xiong|Xiong]][[Special:Emailuser/Xiong|<font color="#997749">&#29066;</font>]][[User talk:Xiong|talk]][[User:Xiong/Metatalk|<font color="#009900">*</font>]] 09:40, 2005 May 6 (UTC)

:::::for comparison:

{{PD-Germany}}

{{PD}}

*'''Comment''': Please read also [[User:Quadell/copyright]]. &mdash; [[User:Instantnood|Insta]][[User_talk:Instantnood|ntnood]] 16:29, May 13, 2005 (UTC)

=== May 2 ===

==== [[Template:ZIMf]] ====

This template is not in use and identical to [[Template:ZIM]]. [[User:Thuresson|Thuresson]] 01:33, 2 May 2005 (UTC)

''vote tally ... 1 vote to keep (earl andrew), 1 vote to delete (wipe) ... [[User:Ceyockey|Courtland]] 00:04, 2005 May 21 (UTC)''

:It is not identical. ZIMf links to the [[Zimbabwe national football team]], ZIM just links to Zimbabwe. These templates are only temporarily orphaned, and will be used in the future for [[football (soccer)]] related articles. -- [[Image:Canada flag_large.png|20px]] [[User:Earl Andrew|Earl Andrew]] - [[User talk:Earl Andrew|talk]] 02:14, 2 May 2005 (UTC)

::Shouldn't there be only one template with the country name as an attribute? (Plus another one for football.) That would of course require harmonizing the flag image naming (or creating redirects) but it would be very useful. [[User:Wipe|Wipe]] 03:54, 2 May 2005 (UTC)

:::What do you mean? These two templates ([[Template:ZIM]] and [[Template:ZIMf]]) have links to 2 different articles. -- [[Image:Canada flag_large.png|20px]] [[User:Earl Andrew|Earl Andrew]] - [[User talk:Earl Andrew|talk]] 05:38, 2 May 2005 (UTC)

::I mean something like this (an example, "Template:Country"):<br>

::<code>[[Image:{{{1}}} flag 300.png|20px|{{{1}}}]] [[{{{1}}}]]<code><br>

::and this (the other one, "Template:CountryF"):<br>

::<code>[[Image:{{{1}}} flag 300.png|20px|{{{1}}}]] [[{{{1}}} national football team|{{{1}}}]]<code><br>

::used like this: <nowiki>{{Country|Zimbabwe}}, {{CountryF|Zimbabwe}}</nowiki>. ''Zimbabwe'' could be replaced here with any country. If you had to edit the template, you'd make one edit and all countries would still look consistent.<br>

::[[User:Wipe|Wipe]] 06:06, 2 May 2005 (UTC)

:::Well, I'm already almost done with these football templates. Plus I made quite a few for ice hockey as well. ([[Template:CANh]] or [[Template:USAhw]] for example)-- [[Image:Canada flag_large.png|20px]] [[User:Earl Andrew|Earl Andrew]] - [[User talk:Earl Andrew|talk]] 00:33, 3 May 2005 (UTC)

=== April 29 ===

==== [[Template:Project usage]] ====

Violates [[Wikipedia:Avoid self-references]]; editorial conventions should be collected in a central ___location, perhaps the MoS. {{User:Rdsmith4/Sig}} 02:48, 29 Apr 2005 (UTC) (oh, and I vote '''delete'''. {{User:Rdsmith4/Sig}})

''vote tally (29 April to 2 May) ... [[User:Ceyockey|Courtland]] 00:10, 2005 May 21 (UTC)''

::* '''keep''': 3

::** SPUI, thryduulf, xiong

::* '''delete''': 7 (8 including mav)

::** tony sidaway, jiang, raul654, ævarab, JRM, dpark, netoholic

*'''Keep''', as this is something that will be useful to readers. Looking at the uses of it, it's rather useful on [[billion]] and [[natural number]], as NPOV prevents us from saying "this way is better" but we have to choose one or the other. As for [[Date]], I'm not sure if it's useful there. "Avoid self-references" is not policy, only semi-policy, anyway. --[[User:SPUI|SPUI]] ([[User talk:SPUI|talk]]) 09:48, 29 Apr 2005 (UTC)

*'''Keep''', this is useful for readers. It should be used as it is used on [[billion]], where it conveys useful information. I agree with SPUI that its use on [[Date]] is questionable as it doesn't give a concise point of information. It should not refer you to another page. [[User:Thryduulf|Thryduulf]] 10:29, 29 Apr 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete'''. Wikipedia isn't about Wikipedia. --[[User:Tony Sidaway|Tony Sidaway]]|[[User talk:Tony Sidaway|Talk]] 11:22, 29 Apr 2005 (UTC)

*<s>'''Delete''' Clear violation of [[Wikipedia:Avoid self-references]]. Our reusers are not called 'Wikipedia'. --[[User:Maveric149|mav]] 04:11, 30 Apr 2005 (UTC)</s>

**This has been fixed by using SITENAME. Unless another reason is given, this vote should not be counted. --[[User:SPUI|SPUI]] ([[User talk:SPUI|talk]]) 15:30, 1 May 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete''' Clear violation of [[Wikipedia:Avoid self-references]]. --[[User:Jiang|Ji]][[User talk:Jiang|ang]] 06:01, 30 Apr 2005 (UTC)

*Delete - concur with Mav and Jiang. [[User:Raul654|&rarr;Raul654]] 06:21, Apr 30, 2005 (UTC)

* <big><font color=red>'''ANNIHILATE!'''</font></big> &#8212;{{User:Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason/Sig}} 07:27, 2005 Apr 30 (UTC)

*'''Delete'''. Wrong way of going about it. I'm not going to visit [[billion]] to find out what Wikipedia's conventions on using the word are. If there's unclarity, then explain what you mean every single time you use the word. This is the only feasible way of doing it; we can't demand that readers plow through our MoS to find out. Articles should be as self-explanatory as possible in these matters. [[User:JRM|JRM]] · [[User talk:JRM|Talk]] 13:37, 2005 Apr 30 (UTC)

*:Update: but also see the vote below. I'm wavering on this point. [[User:JRM|JRM]] · [[User talk:JRM|Talk]] 14:13, 2005 Apr 30 (UTC)

*'''Delete''' -- [[User:Dpark|Dpark]] 21:04, 30 Apr 2005 (UTC)

*'''Keep; fixed''' -- I've addressed all objections in an overhaul of this template. It no longer refers to Wikipedia, and its documentation specifically forbids linking across namespaces. Additionally, I've visited the 3 pages where it was used. I rephrased its parameter text on [[Billion]] and [[Natural number]], and removed it from [[Date]]. &mdash; [[User:Xiong|Xiong]][[Special:Emailuser/Xiong|<font color="#997749">&#29066;</font>]][[User talk:Xiong|talk]][[User:Xiong/Metatalk|<font color="#009900">*</font>]] 14:52, 2005 May 1 (UTC)

**Still got that big, flashy and ugly look to it. I also replaced <nowiki>{{SITENAME}}</nowiki> with 'in this encyclopedia' since mirrors that do not use MediaWiki would not be able to deal with that in the intended manor. --[[User:Maveric149|mav]] 16:32, 1 May 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete''' -- [[User:Netoholic|Netoholic]] [[User talk:Netoholic|@]] 05:47, 2005 May 2 (UTC)

=== April 12 ===

====[[Template:PD-MNGov]]====

(Hope this is the right area to put this in.) Created this template on very mistaken assumptions and am now asking for it to be deleted. [[User:Schissel|Schissel]] : [[User_talk:Schissel|''bowl listen'']] 04:00, Apr 12, 2005 (UTC)

:You've come to the right place :) Looks like a speedy delete to me. [[User:Grutness| Grutness]]|^{[[User_talk:Grutness|hello?]]} [[Image:Grutness.jpg|25px|]] 12:22, 12 Apr 2005 (UTC)

:You should [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Whatlinkshere&target=Template:PD-MNGov retag the affected images] at some point as well. If not PD, what's the license on these? [[User:Grendelkhan|grendel]]|[[User_talk:Grendelkhan|khan]] 20:27, 2005 Apr 12 (UTC)

I'll inform the poster(s?) in the next couple of days that I was mistaken about the copyright condition of the image and whether they can verify fair use, otherwise remove the image - perhaps in favor of another. [[User:Schissel|Schissel]] : [[User_talk:Schissel|''bowl listen'']] 03:32, Apr 14, 2005 (UTC)

:{{template|PD-CAGov}} will need to go too... [[User:Alphax|Alphax]]&nbsp;<sup >[[User talk:Alphax|&tau;]][[Special:Emailuser/Alphax|&epsilon;]][[Special:Contributions/Alphax|&chi;]]</sup > 07:35, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)

::Actually I think California has released all its stuff to the public ___domain. --[[User:SPUI|SPUI]] ([[User talk:SPUI|talk]]) 21:55, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)

The link-to list has decreased but is not yet down to zero. *groan* (Should just retag myself where possible, I guess. Especially since there's a whole category whose existence may be predicated on the mistake I made. May not, also, if the person who created it knows something about MN law no one here so far does, but...) [[User:Schissel|Schissel]] : [[User_talk:Schissel|''bowl listen'']] 14:55, Apr 17, 2005 (UTC)

::I have contacted the State of Minnesota regarding copyright issues in regards to their site content. I will post what I find as well as fix the articles in question. [[User:Fernkes|Dennis Fernkes]] 00:44, Apr 20, 2005 (UTC)

Appreciated. At least one of the affected images was set up by someone who hasn't been on Wikipedia in two months from their contr. page (this would be [[User:JTilly]]) and perhaps should just be deleted at that... [[User:Schissel|Schissel]] : [[User_talk:Schissel|''bowl listen'']] 10:59, Apr 24, 2005 (UTC)

:I didn't receive a response from whomever I tried to contact through the State of Minnesota website. But I did talk to someone who controls the portal that the State uses. They told me that there should be no problem using these photos. I also found this statement somewhere in the vastness of the state government website:

:: <i>"State agency authored documents are in the public ___domain.</i>

:: <i>Copyright and access restrictions apply."<i>

:However, I can't find a suitable tag for this in the current list. I have always found the issue of copyright to be confusing. Therefore, based on what the statement says, I ask someone to tag both JesseVentura.jpg and TimPawlenty.jpg with an appropriate tag. [[User:Fernkes|Dennis Fernkes]] 21:55, Apr 29, 2005 (UTC)

Consider adding any templates you nominate for TfD to your watchlist. This will help ensure that the TfD tag is not removed.

::Eesh. What a messed-up statement on the website.. I know I found a law at some point that said that by default, works of the State of Minnesota are public ___domain. However, there are provisions for exceptions, and ''most of the different departments in the state now have copyright rights'' as far as I can tell. Also, they might be referring to the inclusion of copyrighted information from other sources that finds its way into state documents, reports, etc. I don't really think this template should be deleted, but people really ''must'' include a source URL when uploading MN government images, so it can be verified if the file came from a copyrighted work or not. I have doubts that the official portraits of governors are copyrighted, but at this point who the hell knows... &mdash;[[User:Mulad|Mulad]] [[User talk:Mulad|(talk)]] 23:07, May 18, 2005 (UTC)

=== After nominating: Notify interested projects and editors ===

Oy. To understate, this could be a whole lot clearer. And thanks for going to all that trouble (and sorry about the delay in my response.) Just wondering what an appropriate tag would be in this case now. Should the category be maintained after all this and all... It's good my head is good at spinning, so to say. [[User:Schissel|Schissel]] : [[User_talk:Schissel|''bowl listen'']] 15:28, May 2, 2005 (UTC)

While it is sufficient to list a template for discussion at TfD ''(see above)'', nominators and others sometimes want to attract more attention from and participation by informed editors. All such efforts must comply with [[WP:CANVASS|Wikipedia's guideline against biased canvassing]].

To encourage participation by less experienced editors, please avoid Wikipedia-specific abbreviations in the messages you leave about the discussion, link to any relevant policies or guidelines, and link to the TfD discussion page itself. If you are recommending that a template be speedily deleted, please give the [[Wikipedia:Criteria for speedy deletion|criterion]] that it meets.

=== April 7 ===

====[[Template:2005Calendar]] through [[Template:2024Calendar]]====

Also, [[Template:AprilCalendar2004]] and [[Template:AprilCalendar2005]], and [[Template:AprilCalendar2004Source]] through [[Template:AprilCalendar2025Source]], and the same for every other month.

*Deprecated by generic calender templates for both months and years (dependent on the weekday of january 1st and leapness of the year). Well-intended, but unfortunately needless clutter. [[User:Radiant!| ]][[User_talk:Radiant!|Radiant]][[meta:mergist|_*]] 11:31, Apr 7, 2005 (UTC)

====Notifying related WikiProjects====

''vote tally ... 1 keep (allyunion), 2 deletes (netoholic, marsch), 1 redirect (docu) ... [[User:Ceyockey|Courtland]] 00:14, 2005 May 21 (UTC)''

[[WP:WikiProject|WikiProjects]] are groups of editors that are interested in a particular subject or type of editing. If the article is within the scope of one or more WikiProjects, they may welcome a brief, neutral note on their project's talk page(s) about the TfD. You can use {{Tls|Tfd notice}} for this.

Tagging the nominated template's talk page with a relevant Wikiproject's banner will result in the template being listed in that project's ''[[WP:AALERTS|Article Alerts]]'' automatically, if they [[Wikipedia:Article_alerts/Subscription_list|subscribe to the system]]. For instance, tagging a template with {{tl|WikiProject Physics}} will list the discussion in [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Physics/Article alerts]].

====Notifying substantial contributors to the template====

* '''Delete''' - needless [[Wikipedia:Avoid using meta-templates|meta-templates]]. Have the alternate calendars been created yet, for comparison? -- [[User:Netoholic|Netoholic]] [[User talk:Netoholic|@]] 15:02, 2005 Apr 7 (UTC)

While not required, it is generally considered courteous to notify the [[Wikipedia:Assume good faith|good-faith]] creator and any main contributors of the template and its talkpage that you are nominating for discussion. To find the creator and main contributors, look in the [[Help:Page history|page history]] or [[Help:Talk page|talk page]].

** Note, [[Template:AprilCalendar2005]] is still being in use. And they aren't necessarily meta-templates, at least for the ones I created from 2006 to 2025. --[[User:AllyUnion| AllyUnion]] [[User talk:AllyUnion|(talk)]] 08:39, 9 Apr 2005 (UTC)

*** If a template includes a call to another template, it is a meta-template. -- [[User:Netoholic|Netoholic]] [[User talk:Netoholic|@]] 04:29, 2005 Apr 10 (UTC)

**** The templates created from January 2006 to December 2025 aren't meta-templates. --[[User:AllyUnion| AllyUnion]] [[User talk:AllyUnion|(talk)]] 22:45, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)

At this point, you've done all you need to do as nominator. Sometime after seven days have passed, someone else will either close the discussion or, where needed, "[[WP:RELIST|relist]]" it for another seven days of discussion. (That "someone" ''may not'' be you, the nominator.)

* Oppose. Netoholic, please really take a look. [[Template:MayCalendar2006Source]] is not a meta-template in any way. It's actual template. --[[User:AllyUnion| AllyUnion]] [[User talk:AllyUnion|(talk)]] 08:58, 9 Apr 2005 (UTC)

** Templates for ''"Leap year starting on tuesday"'' or ''"30-day month starting on friday"'' (with parametrization for which month and year it is) have the advantage of being reusable for each and every year in the Gregorian calendar, obviating the need for hundreds of templates for each individual month and year therein. [[User:Radiant!| ]][[User_talk:Radiant!|Radiant]][[meta:mergist|_*]] 09:16, Apr 9, 2005 (UTC)

*** Yes, but, there's so much parameter passing for those templates. And people are lazy. Without these templates, any page using a calendar to display the current month must change using the "Leap year starting on Tuesday" or whatever templates. What happens if I want to display only one month and have it change every month? I can't use <nowiki>{{CURRENTMONTHNAME}}</nowiki> anymore. I would have to manually update and figure out which template to use every month. --[[User:AllyUnion| AllyUnion]] [[User talk:AllyUnion|(talk)]] 22:45, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Once you have submitted a template here, no further action is necessary on your part. If the nomination is successful it will be added to the [[WP:TFDH|Holding Cell]] until the change is implemented. There is no requirement for nominators to be part of the implementation process, but they are allowed to if they so wish.

*[[Template:AprilCalendar2004]] etc could easily redirect to [[Template:Year B 4]]. It would be nice if there was an overview page for these templates. -- User:Docu

*'''delete'''. this template is needless. all it contains is <nowiki>{{CalendarSource|1=2005}}</nowiki>. -[[User:MarSch|MarSch]] 17:03, 16 May 2005 (UTC)

Also, consider adding any templates you nominate to your watchlist. This will help ensure that your nomination tag is not mistakenly or deliberately removed.

==== [[Template:New TFD]] ====

(and redirect at [[Template:TFDNotice]])

===Twinkle===

TFD does not make use of this template. It's not common practice to make sections for "keep", "delete" votes. -- [[User:Netoholic|Netoholic]] [[User talk:Netoholic|@]] 07:52, 2005 Apr 7 (UTC)

[[WP:Twinkle|Twinkle]] is a convenient tool that can perform many of the posting and notification functions automatically, with fewer errors and missed steps than manual editing. To use Twinkle, click its dropdown menu in the toolbar in the top right of the page: TW [[File:OOjs UI icon caretDown.svg|15px|link=]], and then click 'XFD'.

Note that Twinkle does not notify WikiProjects, although many of them have [[Wikipedia:Article alerts|automatic alerts]]. It is helpful to notify any interested WikiProjects that don't receive alerts, but this has to be done manually.

''vote tally (7 April to 19 May) ... [[User:Ceyockey|Courtland]] 00:19, 2005 May 21 (UTC)''

::* '''keep''': 2

::** mel etitis, frazzydee

::* '''delete''': 7

::** korath, radiant, sean curtin, blankverse, zscount, SV, grutness

==Discussion==

Anyone can join the discussion, but please understand the [[WP:deletion policy|deletion policy]] and explain your reasoning.

People will sometimes also recommend '''[[Wikipedia:Template substitution|subst]]''' or '''subst and delete''' and similar. This means the template text should be "merged" into the articles that use it. Depending on the content, the template page may then be deleted; if preserving the edit history for attribution is desirable, it may be history-merged with the target article or moved to mainspace and redirected.

* Nor should it be. Whenever someone "helpfully" refactors a vfd like this, it stops being a discussion and starts turning into a shouting match. There's no reason to suspect things would be any different here. '''Delete'''. &mdash;[[User:Korath|Korath]] ([[User talk:Korath|Talk]]) 07:59, Apr 7, 2005 (UTC)

*'''Keep'''. I like this (the basic idea, at least). It organises the reasons for and against (and their accompanying votes &mdash; but as has been stressed continually, it shouldn't be, and in theory it's not, about the votes) into clear sections. These discussions can turn into shouting matches anyway; I'm not sure why this would accelerate the process. Unlike the Tally Box, it doesn't focus on votes. [[User:Mel Etitis|Mel Etitis]] ([[User talk:Mel Etitis|<font color="green">&Mu;&epsilon;&lambda; &Epsilon;&tau;&eta;&tau;&eta;&sigmaf;</font>)]] 09:20, 7 Apr 2005 (UTC)

* '''Delete''' per Korath. Like the Tally Box Pox. [[User:Radiant!| ]][[User_talk:Radiant!|Radiant]][[meta:mergist|_*]] 09:44, Apr 7, 2005 (UTC)

* '''Delete'''. Same ambiguity issues here as with tally boxes. -[[User:Gtrmp|Sean Curtin]] 22:29, Apr 7, 2005 (UTC)

*'''Keep''', it is often helpful to see the votes seperated, especially when people don't '''bold''' their votes. -[[User:Frazzydee|Frazzydee]]|[[User talk:Frazzydee|&#9997;]] 14:30, 12 Apr 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete''', per Korath. [[User:BlankVerse|<font color=green>''Blank''</font><font color= #F88017>''Verse''</font>]]<font color=#2554C7> </font>[[User talk:BlankVerse|<font color=#F660AB>&empty;</font> ]] 01:23, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete.''' Tally boxes are not encouraged in VfD (from what people have told me) and the format above was taken from places like [[RfC]]. [[User:Zscout370|Zscout370]] 02:36, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)

* If the point of this template was to redefine the way TFD works - great. I dont see this page as being active enough to warrant such a redesign - yet. '''Archive''' for later -[[User:Stevertigo|SV]]|[[User_talk:Stevertigo|t]] 02:12, 11 May 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete'''. I can understand this sort of system being usef dor things like new administraor status, but not for yaying/naying templates. The current system (as used here, cfd, vfd...) allows debate to take place in a natural, structured way. People can see how individual points are raised and answered. With a "For"/"Against"/"Neutral" system, this is implaired. Furthermore, for valid psychological reasons, whichever decision appears first on the list (i.e., "For") will receive a slight but real boost in its vote, simply for being first on the list. [[User:Grutness|Grutness]]...<font color=green><small>''[[User_talk:Grutness|wha?''</small></font>]] 04:31, 19 May 2005 (UTC)

Templates are rarely orphaned—that is, removed from pages that transclude them—before the discussion is closed. A list of open discussions eligible for closure can be found at [[Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Old unclosed discussions]].

==Holding Cell==

''Move templates '''here''' to prepare to delete '''if''' process guidelines are met.''

===ToClosing orphan=discussion==

Administrators should read the [[Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Closing instructions|closing instructions]] before closing a nomination. Note that [[WP:XFDcloser]] semi-automates this process and ensures all of the appropriate steps are taken.

These templates need to be deleted, but may still be in use on some pages. Somebody (it doesn't need to be an admin, anyone can do it) should remove them from pages so that they can be deleted.

</div>

;[[Template:Sejm Marshals]]

* Is this really to be deleted? It has no {TfD] tag, and a large number of pages link to it. [[User:Jnc|Noel]] [[User_talk:Jnc|(talk)]] 20:01, 29 Jan 2005 (UTC)

** There certainly wasn't a consensus to delete, so whoever moved it to the holding cell needs a spanking. I've put the discussion on the template talk page. (The '''Divide''' has been done already) &mdash; [[User:MikeX|MikeX]] [[User Talk:MikeX|(talk)]] 20:51, Jan 30, 2005 (UTC)

*<s>Since the "divide" in effect created other templates, this one is no longer needed. orphan and delete it.--[[User:Jiang|Ji]][[User talk:Jiang|ang]] 06:42, 2 Mar 2005 (UTC)</s>

*actually, the divide has not been done already. it needs to be done. --[[User:Jiang|Ji]][[User talk:Jiang|ang]] 02:25, 13 Mar 2005 (UTC)

== Current discussions ==

===To convert to category===

{{Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/{{ #time: Y F j }}}}

Templates for which the consensus is that they ought to be converted to categories get put here until the conversion is completed.

{{Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/{{ #time: Y F j | -1 days }}}}

* ''None at present''

{{Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/{{ #time: Y F j | -2 days }}}}

{{Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/{{ #time: Y F j | -3 days }}}}

{{Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/{{ #time: Y F j | -4 days }}}}

{{Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/{{ #time: Y F j | -5 days }}}}

{{Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/{{ #time: Y F j | -6 days }}}}

{{Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/{{ #time: Y F j | -7 days }}}}

== Old discussions ==

===Ready to delete===

{{#invoke:XfD old|transclude}}

Templates for which consensus to delete has been reached, have been orphaned, and the discussion logged to [[Wikipedia:Templates for deletion/Log/Deleted]], can be listed here for an admin to delete.

== Completed discussions ==

; [[Template:Manga]]

A list of completed discussions that still require action taken on the template(s) — for example, a merge between two infoboxes — can be found at [[Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Holding cell|the "Holding Cell"]].

*It's been orphaned, and discussion has been logged. - [[User:Mako098765|mak]]''[[User_talk:Mako098765|o]]'' 18:31, 20 May 2005 (UTC)

For an index of all old and archived discussions, see [[Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/Archives]].

== Listings to log ==

''Templates with completed discussions which have not yet been logged; remove from'' '''''this''''' ''page entirely when logged. Anyone can do this, not just an admin; please see the directions at [[Wikipedia:Templates for deletion/Log]].''

[[Category:Non-talk pages with subpages that are automatically signed]]

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[[Category:Wikipedia deletion|Templates for discussion]]

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[[Category:Wikipedia deletiontemplate administration|Templates for deletiondiscussion]]

[[Category:Wikipedia discussion]]