Christopher Mann McKay

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<center><br><font face="Arial"><center size="5"><b><big><big><big>Christopher Mann McKay's Talk Page</big></big></big></b><br/><br/><br/>
<small>font face="Arial" size="2">[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Christopher_Mann_McKay http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Christopher_Mann_McKay]</centerfont></smallcenter><br>

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'''Click <span class="plainlinks">[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&section=new|}} here]</span> to leave me message'''<br><smallfont face="Arial" size="1">I will respond to your comment on my talk page, unless you request otherwise.</smallfont></center>

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== AFA ==

== Your user page ==

I'd give up on the homophobia category if I were you - it's inflammatory, and would make a good concession to point to if this goes to mediation. [[User:Orpheus|Orpheus]] 05:18, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

:Homophobia is a word recognized to describe people, just like Anti-Semitism or Racism, which are both categories. It is in the dictionary and is it is not POV, but a fact if an organization is homophobic. I don't feel any need to give up on this, for the sole purpose that some anti-gay rights people will not want to label any organization this, as it may be interpreted as something negative. —[[User:Christopher Mann McKay|Christopher Mann McKay]]^{[[User talk:Christopher Mann McKay|user talk]]} 05:31, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Christopher, sorry to bother you, but would you be willing to remove the image of bombs and skulls and "Down with the U.S.A." on your user page? I think it violates a number of WP policies, and leads to a more heated editing environment in general than is optimal. Thanks. [[User:IronDuke|<span style="color:green;">IronDuke</span>]] 21:03, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

Regarding the Censorship, Discrimination, and Homophobia categorization dispute.

:I do not believe it violates any Wikipedia polices, so I am going to keep it up. Please do not delete it again unless you have the consensus of the Wikipedia community, which in the past when this same issue was raised, the consensus was I can keep the image up. Thank you. —[[User:Christopher Mann McKay|Christopher Mann McKay]]^{<small>[[User talk:Christopher Mann McKay|talk]]</small>} 04:54, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

I'd like to resolve this dispute without going any further in the mediation process. First of all, would I be correct in assuming that you're position on the subject is that the AFA belongs in these categories because its actions correspond with the definitions of those categories from the dictionary? [[User:Citadel18080|Citadel18080]] 06:21, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

::Thanks for the civil reply, Christopher. I believe I already have the consensus of the Wikipedia community, in terms of our policy. And I can think of no good reason why it ''should'' stay. I believe it is, at best, divisive... do you think it accomplishes something good by being here? Thanks for engaging in dialaogue. [[User:IronDuke|<span style="color:green;">IronDuke</span>]] 05:19, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

:Exactly. Also, other organizations are in those categories, not only AFA. —[[User:Christopher Mann McKay|Christopher Mann McKay]]^{[[User talk:Christopher Mann McKay|user talk]]} 06:23, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

::Oh, one more note: you may disagree with my editing your userpage - but it is in no sense of the word "vandalism." I may be wrong, and if consensus says I am, then so be it. But it is not vandalism. I can link to the relevant policy if you like. [[User:IronDuke|<span style="color:green;">IronDuke</span>]] 05:23, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

::My position on this topic is that the dictionary, while being an NPOV and verifiable source, is irrelevant to the American Family Association because it does not directly mention the AFA and using it requires interpretation on the part of the reader. For reasons that I believe I have made clear on the AFA talk page, I do not believe that those definitions correspond to the AFA's activities, thus we have interpreted the dictionary in two different ways.

::: An editor is permitted by community consensus to exhibit whatever userspace contents are appropriate for revealing their point of view, sense of humor, idea of collaboration, notion of community, and whatever else helps us to edit the encyclopedia by accepting and tolerating the presence of all other civil people. The photo on the userpage in no way violates any laws, and as an American i am proud to defend our Constitutional guarantee in the First Amendment to speak freely however we see fit. For all we know, there may be some important artistic or philosophical merit-- not to mention technical or journalistic value-- contained in a picture which is revealed in an encyclopedist's frame of reference. We don't have to like things, but we can tolerate them when they're not harming us, and if their presence makes us uncomfortable then we can simply ignore them and choose to look away at other more pleasant sights. Have you ever seen pictures of [[Hot Fudge Sundae]] Surprise? That's a pleasant sight! Peace, goodwill, and good editing, ~_{[[User:Teledildonix314|Teledildonix314]]}~[[User Talk:Teledildonix314|^Talk]]~[[Special:Contributions/Teledildonix314|_4-1-1]]~ 16:22, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

::: By the way, Mann McKay, thanks for contributions to so many articles about civil rights. Always a wonderful focus. Good weekend, ~_{[[User:Teledildonix314|Teledildonix314]]}~[[User Talk:Teledildonix314|^Talk]]~[[Special:Contributions/Teledildonix314|_4-1-1]]~ 16:24, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

::::You are entirely incorrect about WP policy -- the first amendment has nothing whatever to do with userpages here. [[User:IronDuke|<span style="color:green;">IronDuke</span>]] 02:13, 18 April 2009 (UTC)

:::::Take a cue from your ''nom de guerre''. Publish and be damned. [[User:Paul Barlow|Paul B]] ([[User talk:Paul Barlow|talk]]) 15:54, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

:::::However, consensus determines what is allowable, and consensus at no time is one person, no matter who that is unless it's Mike Godwin, the WMF attorney, or officially stated as a WMF Office action. I'd undone your removal as there is exceptionally wide allowances for what users can display on their pages, irregardless of other user's political, religious, or social dislikes, mores, or sensitivities. This was just again reinforced, for like the 100th time, at this discussion: [[Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/User:WebHamster]]. [[User:Rootology|<span style="color:#0D670D; font-family:Georgia, Helvetica;">rootology</span>]] ([[Special:Contributions/Rootology|<span style="color:#156917;">C</span>]])([[User talk:Rootology|<span style="color:#156917;">T</span>]]) 15:28, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

I've brought this up for review on [[Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard#Another_user_page_image_fight_brewing_-_admin_eyes_please|WP:AN here]], just as this is exactly, in essence, the megafight that just happened 48 hours ago and that spilled all over Jimmy's talk amongst other places. [[User:Rootology|<span style="color:#0D670D; font-family:Georgia, Helvetica;">rootology</span>]] ([[Special:Contributions/Rootology|<span style="color:#156917;">C</span>]])([[User talk:Rootology|<span style="color:#156917;">T</span>]]) 15:39, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

::Most importantly, since the AFA is an active organization with controversial beliefs, it is not approriate to categorize it in such a way as to pass judgement on those beliefs, and [[WP:SORT#Some_general_guidelines|WP:SORT Guideline 8]] says as much. For example, by categorizing it under Discrimination, you are saying to the world that it is a definitive fact that the AFA discriminates. Many, many people would disagree with that. If you wanted to put, say, the articles on the Confederate States of America or the Jim Crow Laws in the Discrimination category, I would not disagre, and with you, and neither would others because, as entities, neither exist anymore and are generally accepted by the public to have practiced discrimination. What parts of this do you disagree with? [[User:Citadel18080|Citadel18080]] 07:35, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Just a comment. Mr McKay writes "down with the USA" but says he doesn't like US foreign and domestic policy, and also says "i am proud to defend our Constitutional guarantee in the First Amendment to speak freely however we see fit." So 2 things: First, he obviously likes '''some''' domestic policies, those that benefit him. Second, foreign and domestic policies are not the US. They are made by some politicians currently in office. He can dislike the policies and the people who made them, but that's not the USA. The USA is everyone here, including many people who don't like US's policies and work toward doing something about it. [[User:Socialresearch|Socialresearch]] ([[User talk:Socialresearch|talk]]) 02:19, 24 September 2011 (UTC)

''My position on this topic is that the dictionary, while being an NPOV and verifiable source, is irrelevant to the American Family Association because it does not directly mention the AFA'' The problem with that is that you've just ruled out a vast section of Wikipedia material, all of which relies on basic axioms like "We follow dictionary definitions". There's several verifiable sources listed which show that the AFA advocates things that match the definition of discrimination and censorship. Simple rewording is not incompatible with [[WP:RS]]. [[Max Hardcore]], for instance, doesn't like his work described as "obscenity" but it's not controversial to describe it as such - the same standard applies here. [[User:Orpheus|Orpheus]] 10:04, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

== Good luck ==

''you are saying to the world that it is a definitive fact that the AFA discriminates'' - '''advocates''' discrimination. If you want to rename the category (or split it) into "Organisations that discriminate" and "Organisations that advocate discrimination" then go for it. [[User:Orpheus|Orpheus]] 10:05, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

I support your choice to declare your political opinions, and in whatever (non-illegal) form you so choose. This strengthens the encyclopædia by providing the reader with the information he needs to form his own judgement about an editor's contributions. [[User:DuncanHill|DuncanHill]] ([[User talk:DuncanHill|talk]]) 15:57, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

:''"There's several verifiable sources listed which show that the AFA advocates things that match the definition of discrimination and censorship."'' Please read [[WP:SYN]], which is a policy. You are taking examples of the AFA's activities and matching them with the dictionary definitions of censorship, discrimination, and homophobia. ''"that precise analysis must have been published by a reliable source '''in relation to the topic''' before it can be published in Wikipedia."'' This is policy, not a guideline. Since the only sources which provide such analysis are advocate groups that oppose AFA, saying that the AFA advocates any of these things is not "self evident or uncontroversial," as [[WP:CAT]] guidelines state categorization must be. My dictionary defines self-evident as "evident without need of proof or explanation" and uncontroversial is pretty self-explanatory. Again, according to [[WP:CAT]], a suitable compromise is to use lists instead of categories. [[User:Citadel18080|Citadel18080]] 16:57, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

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:: I disagree with your interpretation of [[WP:SYN]], partly because if it was applied the way you suggest most of Wikipedia would no longer exist. However, if you have a look at the [[Talk:American Family Association]] I've posted yet more references dealing with the subject, many of which publish "that precise analysis" (including the New York Times and the Indepdendent). [[User:Orpheus|Orpheus]] 17:03, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

[[Image:Ambox warning blue.svg|25px]] Thanks for uploading '''[[:File:Album-Reflection Eternal-Train of Thought.jpg]]'''. The media description page currently specifies that it is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a [[WP:FU|claim of fair use]]. However, it is currently [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Orphanage|orphaned]], meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the media was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. [[WP:BOLD|You may add it back]] if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that media for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see [[Wikipedia:Non-free content#Policy|our policy for non-free media]]).

::I also believe Citadel is misinterpreting [[WP:SYN]], as there is no synthesis required. It is not A and B and therefore C. It is reading the dictionary definition and seeing if that definition applies to the AFA. No synthesis required. I'm not going to debate guidelines. Guidelines are there to guide, they are not policy and are widely ignored. —[[User:Christopher Mann McKay|Christopher Mann McKay]]^{[[User talk:Christopher Mann McKay|user talk]]} 17:29, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

I disagree, but I'm not here to start up this debate again. Can you provide ''specific'' reasons why you will not accept lists as a compromise? [[User:Citadel18080|Citadel18080]] 17:58, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

:As stated before. There is no need to remove the categories, as there is no policy violation. That is my reason. I am not in favor of removing something if there is no good reason it should be removed.. —[[User:Christopher Mann McKay|Christopher Mann McKay]]^{[[User talk:Christopher Mann McKay|user talk]]} 18:02, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

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== Heads up ==

== WikiProject Cannabis ==

LAEC has, since his block, continued his insistance that the edits with which he disagrees are vandalism, supported as such by policy. No amount of effort on my part seems to have any effect - he refuses to even consider the possibility that he is in error. I posted on ANI, and it appears no one is interested in attempting to reason with him. One other editor has made a valiant attempt, and was dismissed by LEAC. See [[User talk:LegitimateAndEvenCompelling#Blocked|his talk page]] if you want the history of interactions. My purpose in writing you here is to give you a heads-up - I have suggested to him that he report instances of vandalism to [[WP:AIV]], rather than post polemics. My hope is that after hearing from enough admins that what he is calling vandalism is '''not''' vandalism, he may actually begin to absorb that his interpretation of the policy is in fact flawed. However, should he choose to take this approach, it is entirely possible that you will shortly be spammed with vandalism warnings. I ask you not to engage, but rather to simply remove the warnings. You have been admirably calm throughout this, and I hope you will be able to remain so, should my suggestion to LAEC lead to unmerited warning-spam on your page. If you disagree with my suggested approach to any vandalism warnings which may come your way, or if you have other criticism or suggestions for me, I welcome them. I will watchlist this page; you may reply here. [[User:KillerChihuahua|KillerChihuahua]]^{[[User talk:KillerChihuahua|?!?]]} 19:22, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

:FYI: I'm not sure if you still hold this position, but you were incorrect [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Veganism&curid=32587&diff=142144584&oldid=142122288 here] in characterizing the removal of a cleanup tag "vandalism" - this is the same error in interpretation which LAEC has made. Good faith edits are never vandalism, and calling them so is a violation of CIVIL and possibly of NPOV. Please be extremely judicious about what you call vandalism in the future. If you have any questions, I will be happy to clarify or assist. [[User:KillerChihuahua|KillerChihuahua]]^{[[User talk:KillerChihuahua|?!?]]} 19:27, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

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[[File:Ambox warning blue.svg|35px|text-top|left|⚠|link=]] Thanks for uploading '''[[:File:Album-Pete Philly and Perquisite-Remindstate.jpg]]'''. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a [[WP:FU|claim of fair use]]. However, the image is currently not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see [[Wikipedia:Non-free content#Policy|our policy for non-free media]]).

Note that any non-free images not used in any '''articles''' will be deleted after seven days, as described in [[wikipedia:Criteria for speedy deletion#F5|section F5 of the criteria for speedy deletion]]. Thank you.<!-- Template:Di-orphaned fair use-notice --> --[[User:B-bot|B-bot]] ([[User talk:B-bot|talk]]) 17:26, 10 March 2020 (UTC)

==Orphaned non-free image File:Mystery Repeats.jpg==

[[File:Ambox warning blue.svg|35px|text-top|left|⚠|link=]] Thanks for uploading '''[[:File:Mystery Repeats.jpg]]'''. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a [[WP:FU|claim of fair use]]. However, the image is currently not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see [[Wikipedia:Non-free content#Policy|our policy for non-free media]]).

Note that any non-free images not used in any '''articles''' will be deleted after seven days, as described in [[wikipedia:Criteria for speedy deletion#F5|section F5 of the criteria for speedy deletion]]. Thank you.<!-- Template:Di-orphaned fair use-notice --> --[[User:B-bot|B-bot]] ([[User talk:B-bot|talk]]) 17:27, 10 March 2020 (UTC)

== [[Wikipedia:Proposed deletion|Proposed deletion]] of [[:San Diego Jewish Film Festival]] ==

[[File:Ambox warning yellow.svg|left|link=|alt=Notice|48px|]]

The article [[:San Diego Jewish Film Festival]] has been [[Wikipedia:Proposed deletion|proposed for deletion]]&#32;because of the following concern:

<blockquote>''''''Delete''' [[WP:BEFORE]] reveals no significant coverage in independent sources to indicate this festival meets [[WP:GNG]]'''</blockquote>

While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, pages may be [[WP:DEL#REASON|deleted for any of several reasons]].

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{Tlc|proposed deletion/dated}} notice, but please explain why in your [[Help:edit summary|edit summary]] or on [[Talk:San Diego Jewish Film Festival|the article's talk page]].

Please consider improving the page to address the issues raised. Removing {{Tlc|proposed deletion/dated}} will stop the [[Wikipedia:Proposed deletion|proposed deletion process]], but other [[Wikipedia:deletion process|deletion process]]es exist. In particular, the [[Wikipedia:Criteria for speedy deletion|speedy deletion]] process can result in deletion without discussion, and [[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion|articles for deletion]] allows discussion to reach [[Wikipedia:Consensus|consensus]] for deletion.<!-- Template:Proposed deletion notify --> [[User:UnitedStatesian|UnitedStatesian]] ([[User talk:UnitedStatesian|talk]]) 04:40, 15 August 2020 (UTC)

== Westboro Baptist Church protests ==

I went to BVN and am talking to someone doing a documentary on the Westboro Baptist Church.

Did you go there? Do you have first hand experience to the protests?

Please email me at [e-mail] <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/24.127.237.48|24.127.237.48]] ([[User talk:24.127.237.48#top|talk]]) 21:25, 14 November 2020 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

== File:Little Italy SD Fishing Mural.JPG listed for discussion ==

[[File:Information.svg|30px|left]] A file that you uploaded or altered, [[:File:Little Italy SD Fishing Mural.JPG]], has been listed at [[Wikipedia:Files for discussion]]. Please see the [[Wikipedia:Files for discussion/2022 September 27#File:Little Italy SD Fishing Mural.JPG|'''discussion''']] to see why it has been listed (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry). Feel free to add your opinion on the matter below the nomination. Thank you. <!-- Template:Fdw --> [[User:Ixfd64|Ixfd64]] ([[User talk:Ixfd64|talk]]) 18:03, 27 September 2022 (UTC)

== Good article reassessment for [[Legal history of cannabis in the United States]] ==

[[Legal history of cannabis in the United States]] has been nominated for a good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the [[Wikipedia:Good article reassessment/Legal history of cannabis in the United States/1|reassessment page]]. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. [[User:Z1720|Z1720]] ([[User talk:Z1720|talk]]) 18:39, 6 July 2025 (UTC)