Wikipedia talk:In the news: Difference between revisions

Revision as of 16:21, 21 June 2005

Latest revision as of 14:32, 26 August 2025

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*See [[wikipedia:News sources|these sources]] to look for breaking news in various parts of the world.

| header = Please note:

*Please endeavour at all times to be NPOV in your reporting.

| text = Please '''do not''' post error reports for [[Template:In the news]] here. Instead, '''post them to [[WP:ERRORS]]'''. Thank you.

*This means news stories should originate from all over the world.

Please '''do not''' suggest items for, or complain about items on [[Template:In the news]] here. Instead, '''post them to [[WP:ITN/C]]'''. Thank you.

Please '''do not''' write disagreements about article content here. Instead, '''post them to the article's talk page'''. Thank you.

}}

{{Wikipedia talk:In the news/HelpBox}}

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{{ITNbox}} {{align|right|{{archives|auto=short|search=yes|bot=MiszaBot II|age=14|style=width:280px}}{{archives|title=ITNR archives|auto=short|search=yes|root=Wikipedia talk:In the news/Recurring items|style=width:280px}} }}

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== [[Vladimir Popov (wrestler)]] ==

This page ([[Template:In the news]]) is the "In the news" section on the [[Main Page]]. Since it is now protected, '''make any necessary changes at [[Template:In the news/Candidate]].''' The template will be updated periodically by administrators.

{{@ITNA}} Vladimir Popov just rolled off while having two supports and being marked as "ready". Maybe someone could post it? [[User:BeanieFan11|BeanieFan11]] ([[User talk:BeanieFan11|talk]]) 00:31, 10 August 2025 (UTC)

'''NOTE:''' Any '''bolded''' item that appears on the [[Main Page]] ''must'' be updated and listed on its corresponding subject area page ''before'' being listed on the [[Main Page]]. For example, a news item should first be listed on [[current events]], then the article on the subject of that news item should be updated to reflect a current event. ''Then'' that item can be placed on [[Template:In the news]]. Since [[Wikipedia is not]] a news report, please ''only'' do this for news that is important enough to merit changing the article.

:I've actioned this. '''[[User:Schwede66|<span style="color:var(--color-base, #202122);">Schwede</span>]][[User talk:Schwede66|<span style="color: #FF4500;">66</span>]]''' 06:01, 10 August 2025 (UTC)

After updating this template, please click [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Main_Page&action=purge this link] to clear the Main Page cache, so anonymous users can see the update.

== How to nominate an a recent event? ==

See the guidelines at [[Wikipedia:In the news section on the Main Page]]. For older discussion, see the [[/archive|archive]].

Hello. I wanted to nominate the recent 80th anniversary of the [[Atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki]] but i cannot find any actualy explaination on how the formating of a nomination works on [[WP:ITNBLURB|guidelines page]]. I have no idea what "nom cmt" or "ITNR" mean or do. i would really appreciate being pointed to where I can learn how to format my nomination. thank you! [[User:AssanEcho|AssanEcho]] ([[User talk:AssanEcho|talk]]) 13:28, 10 August 2025 (UTC)

'''Administrators''': before updating [[Template:In the news]] with a new image, protect that image and add [[Template:ProtectedMainPageImage]] to the image's description page. Also, consider unprotecting the old image that is being removed.

[[Category:Permanently protected]]

---------------

:There's a section at the top of [[WP:ITNC]] titled "Nomination steps", which includes the link to the nomination template {{tl|ITN candidate}} which will help you format a nomination under the correct day.

{| align="right" cellspacing="3" width="45%"

:That said: Anniversaries of key events like the atomic bombings are usually covered at [[WP:On This Day]], and I did check to see that August 6 included this anniversary. So unless there is something very unique about the anniversy (like a major remembrance ceremony or similar), it likely will not have a good chance. [[User:Masem|M<span style="font-variant: small-caps">asem</span>]] ([[User Talk:Masem|t]]) 14:00, 10 August 2025 (UTC)

|- valign="top"

::Regardless of whether or not it passes im extremely grateful for your help. thank you! [[User:AssanEcho|AssanEcho]] ([[User talk:AssanEcho|talk]]) 19:20, 10 August 2025 (UTC)

| style="border:1px solid #c6c9ff; padding:1em; padding-top:.5em; color: #000; background-color:#f0f0ff"|

<b><font style="font-size:130%">In the news</font></b>

{{In the news}}

|}

== No non-RD ITN candidates newer than 7 days on the Main Page ==

==Archives==

[[/0504-28]]

Someone's having a laugh at us right now. Wasn't the [[Fernando Lugo]] image that stayed on the Main Page for an ungodly long time also wielding a microphone? _{Duly signed,} '''[[User:WaltCip|⛵ <span style="color: white; font-family: Verdana; font-weight: bold; background: linear-gradient(white, blue, navy, black)">WaltClipper</span> ]]'''-''<small>([[User talk:WaltCip|talk]])</small>'' 12:14, 20 August 2025 (UTC)

== Notes about the section ==

'''''Please read before editing the section or making comments on this discussion page.'''''

To make an actual point out of this, since I know someone is going to point out "There's no discussion topic in this post", are we in the midst of a [[silly season]] or is the fact we haven't posted any news stories since the events on 8/11/2025 considered a breakdown of consensus? _{Duly signed,} '''[[User:WaltCip|⛵ <span style="color: white; font-family: Verdana; font-weight: bold; background: linear-gradient(white, blue, navy, black)">WaltClipper</span> ]]'''-''<small>([[User talk:WaltCip|talk]])</small>'' 12:15, 20 August 2025 (UTC)

===Main Page: Updates and Caching ===

The main page does not necessarily update immediately with updates from the "In the news" section. The next update to the Main Page by an administrator will make the change appear properly. This link will purge the cache of the Main Page so that the present version appears: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Main_Page&action=purge

:And? We cannot control how news happens, particularly what news actually makes for encyclopedic topics. So we absolutely can end up with a long time between stories.

=== Image notation ===

:We shouldn't weaken our standards just to get stories to move the infobox. If anything we need people to look more broadly outside politics and conflicts and suggest more at ITNC, because we look to feature quality articles that happen to be in the news, not what is the news. But there can still be extremely slow periods where what's in the news has little long-term impact that is suitable for encyclopedia, and we just can't force that to change. [[User:Masem|M<span style="font-variant: small-caps">asem</span>]] ([[User Talk:Masem|t]]) 12:22, 20 August 2025 (UTC)

When using images, parenthetically note in the text that the mentioned item is pictured. Example: "...leader '''[[José Luis Rodríguez Zapatero]]''' (pictured right) is sworn in..."

::I really think there needs to be some subheader or disclaimer that pops up on the ITN template that indicates when a news story has not been posted for more than 7 days, so that people don't make the observation - as they inevitably always do - that "there's no news on here". Such a disclaimer, if properly written, might also encourage more people to participate in ITN/C. Something like: _{"There have been no postings since 8/11/2025. Want to nominate something? [[WP:ITN/C|Go here]]."} _{Duly signed,} '''[[User:WaltCip|⛵ <span style="color: white; font-family: Verdana; font-weight: bold; background: linear-gradient(white, blue, navy, black)">WaltClipper</span> ]]'''-''<small>([[User talk:WaltCip|talk]])</small>'' 12:29, 20 August 2025 (UTC)

:::What if each blurb was predicated by a short date (eg "Aug 20: "). That's 7 or 8 added characters that points out the date of the event and implicitly suggests when this are stale. [[User:Masem|M<span style="font-variant: small-caps">asem</span>]] ([[User Talk:Masem|t]]) 13:31, 20 August 2025 (UTC)

::::That's actually a really good idea. I like this one a lot. It states a pertinent fact without being heavy-handed, so readers aren't forced to put 2 and 2 together and realize "hey, this isn't news anymore". They can see it for themselves that it was posted by a since-past date. _{Duly signed,} '''[[User:WaltCip|⛵ <span style="color: white; font-family: Verdana; font-weight: bold; background: linear-gradient(white, blue, navy, black)">WaltClipper</span> ]]'''-''<small>([[User talk:WaltCip|talk]])</small>'' 15:08, 20 August 2025 (UTC)

::As a reader, I can't understand the value proposition of "in the news" if it's full of stories that are no longer "in the news". Why should readers check in with ITN regularly? And aren't readers [[WP:ITN|why we're here]]? [[User:The ed17|Ed]]&nbsp;^{[[User talk:The ed17|[talk]]]&nbsp;[[WP:OMT|[OMT]]]} 13:42, 20 August 2025 (UTC)

:::Again, the problem is more that we are lacking nominations outside of politics, conflicts, and disasters that could readily link to quality articles. This has been a growing problem over several years, coupled with the NOTNEWS problem. We don't need an ITNC to have been headline news but at least reported so that we can direct readers to topics that have been in the news. If the reader wants the actual current events, they can just to that link instead, though we have no quality control over items posted there. [[User:Masem|M<span style="font-variant: small-caps">asem</span>]] ([[User Talk:Masem|t]]) 13:57, 20 August 2025 (UTC)

::::Huh. I wonder if nominators have been driven off by a problematic culture and idiosyncratic "standards" that prioritize a small core of editors and their personal definitions of "importance" over just about all else.

::::[[Portal:Current events]] isn't linked from the main page and gets at best 1% of the main page's views. That's not an adequate substitute for the thing that appears in the top right corner of our encyclopedia's metaphorical front door. [[User:The ed17|Ed]]&nbsp;^{[[User talk:The ed17|[talk]]]&nbsp;[[WP:OMT|[OMT]]]} 14:19, 20 August 2025 (UTC)

:::::Portal CE is linked the "ongoing" term on ITN. I would rather see this moved to the bottom (with nominate and article") and spelled out more explicitly, like"other current events" [[User:Masem|M<span style="font-variant: small-caps">asem</span>]] ([[User Talk:Masem|t]]) 14:40, 20 August 2025 (UTC)

::::::That's what it read before, if I remember correctly. I'm not sure how it got changed to "Ongoing" in the first place. A [[WP:BOLD|BOLD]] change mayhaps? _{Duly signed,} '''[[User:WaltCip|⛵ <span style="color: white; font-family: Verdana; font-weight: bold; background: linear-gradient(white, blue, navy, black)">WaltClipper</span> ]]'''-''<small>([[User talk:WaltCip|talk]])</small>'' 15:11, 20 August 2025 (UTC)

:::::::Last I looked there was logic that if there were any ongoing entries, the bottom line link was removed in favor of putting it under Ongoing. I even believe that change was discussed, however with years in practice it hides the ce portal. [[User:Masem|M<span style="font-variant: small-caps">asem</span>]] ([[User Talk:Masem|t]]) 21:26, 20 August 2025 (UTC)

:::::I'm almost certain that's what it is, {{u|The ed17}}. To Masem's point, there have been nominations outside of politics, conflicts, and disasters that link to quality articles. Those nominations have been rejected as not being newsworthy. I know because I've seen them. As an encyclopedia that has [[WP:NOTNEWS]] as a policy, it is a struggle to find that cross-section of timely, newsworthy, quality articles when by and large there is a requirement to use [[WP:NEWSORG|the news]] as a source. We couldn't nominate the publishing of a [[WP:SCHOLARSHIP|new scientific journal article]], for example, even if it's noteworthy, if it's not in the news. _{Duly signed,} '''[[User:WaltCip|⛵ <span style="color: white; font-family: Verdana; font-weight: bold; background: linear-gradient(white, blue, navy, black)">WaltClipper</span> ]]'''-''<small>([[User talk:WaltCip|talk]])</small>'' 15:15, 20 August 2025 (UTC)

::::::A news article doesn't have to be front page or widely reported as to be considered. There is likely a very minimum threshold that we don't have enough input data to discern, but like if the only source reporting on the event is one NYTimes article, that's probably not enough. Just that between news outlets and social what tends to get plastered across the news are stories that lack good encyclopedic quality, and getting editors to sniff out better stories from the deeper parts of s newspaper is hard. [[User:Masem|M<span style="font-variant: small-caps">asem</span>]] ([[User Talk:Masem|t]]) 21:19, 20 August 2025 (UTC)

: Ironically I suspect (but can't prove) that the image is a copyvio as well. A previous image of the politician uploaded by the same user at Commons was deleted as one, so I would be very surprised if this one wasn't as well. Incidentally, the deleted image was the one on [https://web.archive.org/web/20190319134021/http://confidencialcolombia.com/bogota/miguel-uribe-insiste-en-la-convergencia-de-la-derecha-para-ganar-la-alcaldia/2019/03/18/ this news page] and look - it's from the same event... [[User_talk:Black Kite|Black Kite (talk)]] 14:08, 20 August 2025 (UTC)

::Oh dear. Controversy on the ITN template! I wonder if there really is anything different about the re-uploaded image that might somehow not make it a copyvio, such as if the user got permission. _{Duly signed,} '''[[User:WaltCip|⛵ <span style="color: white; font-family: Verdana; font-weight: bold; background: linear-gradient(white, blue, navy, black)">WaltClipper</span> ]]'''-''<small>([[User talk:WaltCip|talk]])</small>'' 15:11, 20 August 2025 (UTC)

::: Far more likely that someone noticed that one at the time, but this one has now disappeared from whichever news page it appeared on so it can't be proven. The chances of it being the uploader's own work are pretty much zero. [[User_talk:Black Kite|Black Kite (talk)]] 19:36, 20 August 2025 (UTC)

* ITN is obviously dysfunctional, not fit for purpose and unproductive. Every other main page section seems to manage to change its content every single day without missing a beat. It's only ITN which has these regular longueurs and hiatuses.

: What's especially remarkable is that this is happening at a time which is literally transformative in several ways. The Trump administration is a big part of this with a stream of radical, revolutionary policy changes. But any time any of this gets nominated, it is instantly shut down with a chorus of [[WP:NTRUMP]] – a page which is no kind of policy.

: Adding a date to each item shouldn't be necessary as there isn't actually a shortage of news. But if you want to see what it looks like, check out the [[:fr:Wikipédia:Accueil_principal|French main page]]:

:* 19 août : annonce de la découverte de S/2025 U 1, le vingt-neuvième satellite naturel d'Uranus connu.

=== Corresponding "Current Events" item ===

:* 17 août : en Bolivie ont lieu les élections générales, simultanément présidentielles et législatives.

Before adding an item to the "In the news" section, ensure that there is a corresponding item in page ''[[Current Events]]'' with a [[URL]] to an article about the news story.

:* 15 août : rencontre de Donald Trump et Vladimir Poutine en Alaska pour un sommet sur la guerre russo-ukrainienne (photo).

:* 8 août : l'Arménie et l'Azerbaïdjan concluent un accord de paix pour mettre un terme au conflit du Haut-Karabagh.

:* 6 août : au Ghana, un accident d'hélicoptère fait huit morts dont deux ministres.

:Notice that they have the Bolivian general election which hasn't even been nominated here. The English ITN is not high quality; it's quite the opposite.

=== Copyrighted images ===

Before placing an image in the template, ensure that its copyright is well-documented and that it is legal for it to be displayed on the Wikipedia.

:[[user:Andrew Davidson|Andrew]]🐉([[user talk:Andrew Davidson|talk]]) 18:04, 20 August 2025 (UTC)

== Sellafield leak ==

::First, we can't do anything if somethings not nominated like that election. Lack of nominations is a problem. Second as best as I can tell from the proceeds, there is no quality requirements for what goes on that box, in contrast with en.wiki broad main page requirement to feature quality articles. So that's something that limits us (not just at ITN)

It should be noted on the news template that the leak was contained within the facility and it poses no danger. Just saying that a large amount of material has been leaked makes Wikipedia seem more like tabloid style scaremongering :P [[User:Darksun|Darksun]] 11:13, 11 May 2005 (UTC)

::And fundamentally an encyclopedia is not a newspaper. It's why this box is "in the news", and not "news" or "current events". [[User:Masem|M<span style="font-variant: small-caps">asem</span>]] ([[User Talk:Masem|t]]) 18:44, 20 August 2025 (UTC)

:::That is not, technically speaking, a limiter. As far as I'm aware, there is no formal and main page-wide requirement on that, merely an unwritten assumption that such a consensus would exist if the question was asked in a RfC. Also AFAIK, each segment of the main page has made their own determination of what "quality" means in their context. That means that we could, if we so choose, temporarily or permanently loosen ITN's quality requirement and see what a more dynamic ITN looked like. If someone then actually wants to formalize a wider main page requirement and it passes, we'd reevaluate. [[User:The ed17|Ed]]&nbsp;^{[[User talk:The ed17|[talk]]]&nbsp;[[WP:OMT|[OMT]]]} 18:55, 20 August 2025 (UTC)

::::There are usually three types of articles that fail quality: RD bios for unsourced material, and sports and election results for minimal prose. Either case is a lack of encyclopedic quality that should never be overlooked for posting purposes, particularly with our BLP policy being as strong as it is. The only other major quality issue tends to be length and that happens with events with no clear long standing importance like disasters in more remote regions. Generally if an event is the type that will have long term encyclopedic significant, it will already be if decent length by the time it hits ITN. So I see zero reason to loosen quality requirements just so we could post more. [[User:Masem|M<span style="font-variant: small-caps">asem</span>]] ([[User Talk:Masem|t]]) 19:00, 20 August 2025 (UTC)

::::There's no formal quality requirement for main page articles -- just the usual wishful thinking by Masem. FYI, I looked at the quality level for yesterday's main page sections. The quality mix for the bold article links was:

::::: FA = 4

::::: GA = 2

::::: B = 2

::::: C = 10

::::: Start = 7

::::: List = 3

::::So, the bulk of the entries are [[WP:ASSESS|Start or C-class]].

::::[[user:Andrew Davidson|Andrew]]🐉([[user talk:Andrew Davidson|talk]]) 10:18, 21 August 2025 (UTC)

:::::Formally there is [[WP:ITNQUALITY]]. Under that, quality is not whether the article is FA, C or start class, but whether an article is "well referenced" and with "minimally comprehensive overview of the subject, not omitting any major items". But FAs and GAs are obviously more than welcome. '''[[User:Brandmeister|<span style="font-family:Impact; font-size:120%; color:#C0C0C0; font-weight:400; text-shadow:1px 1px 0 #999,2px 2px 0 #666;">Brandmeister</span>]]''' ^{[[User talk:Brandmeister|talk]]} 11:04, 21 August 2025 (UTC)

:::::The article grading scale is not used to determine quality save for TFA and for recently passed GAs for DYK. But in all other cases, all items posted have quality checks from their individual fields, performed blind of the grading scale, to judge if the article is appropriate to be featured.

:::::As noted, we're not asking for ITN featured links to be FA quality, but they should show the fundamental adherence to core content policies (WP:V in particular). [[User:Masem|M<span style="font-variant: small-caps">asem</span>]] ([[User Talk:Masem|t]]) 11:59, 21 August 2025 (UTC)

:::I didn't nominate [[2025 Bolivian general election]] for ITN because, quality-wise, it would never have made it. [[:fr:Élections générales boliviennes de 2025]] is far superior – to the extent that its properly referenced post-election analysis and candidates' position sections could be usefully translated and brought over here in time for the second round. [[User:Moscow Mule|Moscow Mule]] ([[User talk:Moscow Mule|talk]]) 00:27, 26 August 2025 (UTC)

== RD blurbs and popularity/fame ==

==[[Oxyrhynchus]]==

Ok, ed_g2s, complain here instead of reverting. --[[User:Brian0918|<font color="#000000">brian0918</font>]][[User talk:Brian0918|<font color="#000000">&#153;</font>]] 13:28, 17 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I know I have mentioned this in the past but given the quick jump that some editors make to suggest or support RD blurbs based ''only'' on the person's fame or popularity is becoming a problem. We don't want to stop blurbs where fame or popularity is there but extends from what we normally consider for death blurbs (major figure, or death as the story), but when editors argue on a urn simply because a person was famous and gives little other justification, that doesn't help. Basing blurbs only solely fame and popularity will imbalance these to people in the western world and primarily entertainment fields, and further draws lots of editors that make these popularity contests. We really need to add caution about this issue. [[User:Masem|M<span style="font-variant: small-caps">asem</span>]] ([[User Talk:Masem|t]]) 19:30, 21 August 2025 (UTC)

== "reign name" should be "regnal name" ==

:* This is not a problem; it's just a natural consequence of the lack of objective criteria. What's more of a problem is that the lesser RD which are not possible blurbs often get little attention. Currently there are three RD nominations which have had zero comment and there's several more which have only had one comment. This happens because literally any recent death can be nominated and so there's too many nominations of people that have little fame and no-one can be bothered to check them out. [[user:Andrew Davidson|Andrew]]🐉([[user talk:Andrew Davidson|talk]]) 20:42, 21 August 2025 (UTC)

Please fix this. --[[User:Jpbrenna|Jpbrenna]] 04:57, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)

:*:ITN admin's should be able to post RDs that they have checked to meet quality standards even if there are no comments, to process those faster. I'd even be fine with NAC determinations absent any comments in good faith as long as an admin checks them before posting. The plain normal RD problem can be solved.

: Done. -- [[User:PFHLai|PFHLai]] 08:39, 2005 Apr 20 (UTC)

:*:But it's clear when someone us famous, we get a slew of non regulars here to support a blurb. And all I'm saying is that we add something that says don't suggest or support an RD blurb only based on the fame or popularity. It keeps open the other vagueneds we allow for blurbs beyond major figures and death as the story. [[User:Masem|M<span style="font-variant: small-caps">asem</span>]] ([[User Talk:Masem|t]]) 21:17, 21 August 2025 (UTC)

:::* This doesn't work because famous people are usually famous for a reason. Whether that's acting, wrestling or whatever, it's then a matter of opinion whether they were a major figure in that field because there are no objective criteria. The ITN system is to have a discussion and then determine consensus. Without objective criteria, there's no way to predetermine this without having the discussion. [[user:Andrew Davidson|Andrew]]🐉([[user talk:Andrew Davidson|talk]]) 21:29, 21 August 2025 (UTC)

:::*:Supporting blurb if they were famous for a reason is fine as long you state that reason and not simply say "they were famous, blurb 'em". So while I still have reservations on why Hulk Hogan was posted, there definitely were a fair number of editors rightfully arguing his fame was due to what he did for professional wrestling, a far better argument that just ''only'' saying he was famous and leaving it at that. The latter are the supports that are gumming up these RD suggested as blurbs. [[User:Masem|M<span style="font-variant: small-caps">asem</span>]] ([[User Talk:Masem|t]]) 21:49, 21 August 2025 (UTC)

:::*::I should also point out that should also deal with those opposing a urb on "never heard of them" or "only known in Tinytopia, no blurb" - type comments. You should be able to argue that the person doesn't seem to have widespread as they had no significant contributions, but dismissing a blurb as simple not famous also doesn't help. [[User:Masem|M<span style="font-variant: small-caps">asem</span>]] ([[User Talk:Masem|t]]) 21:56, 21 August 2025 (UTC)

:I don't know when the phrase "transformative" was removed from our guidance on RB blurbing, but that really should make a comeback. Not that it's not debatable if someone was transformative in the context of edge cases, but I think that's generally what MOST editors partaking in blurb discussions want for some to warrant a blurb, and it's probably less debatable than fame. Personally, I still think these constant debates over death blurbs are just proof we should axe them, for the most part, but I don't think that's gonna happen. [[User:DarkSide830|DarkSide830]] ([[User talk:DarkSide830|talk]]) 03:48, 22 August 2025 (UTC)

*Correcting a systemic bias in death blurbs should be addressed by posting more from non-Western countries. Posting less blurbs in general furthers a problem we are already confronting. Also, we shouldn't be surprised when people are interested in popular culture. It's right in the name. I wouldn't mind seeing more pop culture blurbs—the first sentence at ITN does say we're here to "direct readers to [updated] articles [that] reflect recent or current events '''of wide interest'''." (my bolding) [[User:The ed17|Ed]]&nbsp;^{[[User talk:The ed17|[talk]]]&nbsp;[[WP:OMT|[OMT]]]} 04:30, 22 August 2025 (UTC)

*:That absolutely a terrible approach. We don't let popular culture guide content selection because that automatically favors western media. This is particularly a problem when we have editors that dismiss nominations because someone may not be famous enough, which further biases towards western topics. We know the world has a systematic bias, and we should be doing our best on the main page to not perpetuate that. [[User:Masem|M<span style="font-variant: small-caps">asem</span>]] ([[User Talk:Masem|t]]) 04:51, 22 August 2025 (UTC)

*::{{ping|Masem}} Thanks for your opinion. First, I've love to hear more about any actions you've taken to combat Wikipedia's well-known systemic bias and to weaken ITN's importance criterion, which as you note is a major barrier. Second, posting more pop culture blurbs does not have to be limited to Western pop culture. Third, please don't put words into my mouth. I did not advocate for "let[ting] popular culture guide content selection"; I ''did'' say that we could post more pop culture blurbs that are of wide interest and have updated Wikipedia articles. [[User:The ed17|Ed]]&nbsp;^{[[User talk:The ed17|[talk]]]&nbsp;[[WP:OMT|[OMT]]]} 20:56, 22 August 2025 (UTC)

* This discussion lacks context so here's some details. First, the current state of ITN today – 22 August.

::That is wrong and should be changed back.''Regnal'' name will not be understood by 95% of wikipedia readers. ''Reign'' name is self explanatory and equally correct. ''Reign name'' is also used in many eastern monarchies where ''regnal'' name never is. There is no justification for using an obscure version of a word only used in western monarchies which most people won't understand when one can use a word with a clearer meaning, that is just as correct, but which will be understood the world over. (And which is used all over wikipedia.) Please undo this mistake. [[User:Jtdirl|<font color="green">'''Fear'''<font color="orange">'''''ÉIREANN''''']] 20:19, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)

<hr>

{{Main page image/ITN

| image = Miguel Uribe.jpg

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| width =

| caption = Miguel Uribe Turbay

| title = Miguel Uribe Turbay in 2019

| alt =

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*<!--Aug 11--> Colombian senator [[Miguel Uribe Turbay]] ''(pictured)'', a pre-candidate in the [[2026 Colombian presidential election|2026 presidential election]], '''[[Assassination of Miguel Uribe Turbay|dies two months after being shot]]'''.

*<!--Aug 07-->Azerbaijan and Armenia sign '''[[Armenia–Azerbaijan peace agreement|a declaration]]''' to formalize a future peace treaty to end the [[Nagorno-Karabakh conflict]].

*<!--Aug 07--> American astronaut '''[[Jim Lovell]]''', the commander of {{nowrap|[[Apollo 13]]}}, dies at the {{nowrap|age of 97}}.

*<!--Aug 06--> '''[[2025 Ghanaian Air Force Z-9 helicopter crash|A helicopter crash]]''' in the [[Ashanti Region]], Ghana, kills eight people on board including ministers [[Edward Omane Boamah]] and [[Ibrahim Murtala Muhammed]].

{{In the news/footer

|nocurrenteventslink = {{{nocurrenteventslink|}}}

|currentevents =

<!--Post ongoing items in alphabetical order-->

*<!--Mar 26 2025--> [[Gaza war]]

*<!--Mar 09 2022--> [[Russian invasion of Ukraine]]

**[[Timeline of the Russian invasion of Ukraine (1 June 2025 – present)|timeline]]

*<!--Apr 14 2024--> [[Sudanese civil war (2023–present)|Sudanese civil war]]

**[[Timeline of the Sudanese civil war (2025)|timeline]]

|recentdeaths =

<!--New items go on top, remove the last one when posting, 6 items maximum, consider {{nowrap|[[Name]]}} or non-breaking spaces (&nbsp;) for names with middle names or initials-->

*[[Frank Caprio]]

*[[Larry Jones (basketball)|Larry Jones]]

*[[Gerry Spence]]

*{{nowrap|[[Ronnie Rondell Jr.]]}}

*[[Barbara Harvey]]

*[[Aino Pervik]]

}}

<hr>

<u>Commentary</u>

1. This set of blurbs has been repeatedly displayed for over a week and the blurb for the death of [[Jim Lovell]] has run for two full weeks now with his picture being displayed on seven of those days. (cf. [[WP:LUGO]])

::: Please add this to the [[Regnal name]] page, Fear''ÉIREANN'', so that the 95% of us ignorant people can learn more after CLICKing on the unfamiliar word shown on the Front Page. Thanks. By the way, as reign name and regnal name are the same thing, like lifts and elevators, pants and trousers ... different people using different words for the same things, it's not a mistake.

2. The RD for [[Frank Caprio]] was [[Wikipedia:In_the_news/Candidates#(Posted_as_RD)_RD/Blurb_:_Frank_Caprio|considered as a blurb]] and this seems to be the main popularity case which has provoked the OP. Other recent blurb discussions include [[Wikipedia:In_the_news/Candidates#RD/Blurb:_James_Dobson|James Dobson]] and [[Wikipedia:In_the_news/Candidates#RD/blurb:_Terence_Stamp|Terence Stamp]].

==Ecuador president removed==

3. Recent [https://pageviews.wmcloud.org/?project=en.wikipedia.org&platform=all-access&agent=user&redirects=0&start=2025-07-22&end=2025-08-21&pages=Terence_Stamp%7CAssassination_of_Miguel_Uribe_Turbay%7CArmenia%E2%80%93Azerbaijan_peace_agreement%7CJim_Lovell%7C2025_Ghanaian_Air_Force_Z-9_helicopter_crash%7CFrank_Caprio%7CJames_Dobson readership stats] for these candidates and topics indicate that the deaths of these famous people were all of much greater interest to our readers than other news such as the [[Armenia–Azerbaijan peace agreement]]. [[Frank Caprio]] was the most popular topic and was the [https://pageviews.wmcloud.org/topviews/?project=en.wikipedia.org&platform=all-access&date=2025-08-21&excludes= top read article] across all of Wikipedia on 21 August by a considerable margin. So, it was certainly popular. Having watched a little of him now, I can understand why.

Ecuador president removed from power: SEE [[Template:In the news/Candidate]] FOR THE BLURB TO PUT ON THE TEMPLATE. &#8212;[[User:Cantus|Cantus]]&hellip;[[User talk:Cantus|<big><big>'''&#9742;'''</big></big>]] 19:08, Apr 20, 2005 (UTC)

[[user:Andrew Davidson|Andrew]]🐉([[user talk:Andrew Davidson|talk]]) 10:19, 22 August 2025 (UTC)

:The [[Prime Minister of Italy]], [[Silvio Berlusconi]], has resigned, too !

:Readership stats just favours pop culture, western things and assorted rubbish. We're an encyclopedia. [[User:Secretlondon|Secretlondon]] ([[User talk:Secretlondon|talk]]) 11:08, 22 August 2025 (UTC)

== The 1.35 Billion Dollar Man! ==

:: Today's featured article is "[[Dance the Night|a song ... from the soundtrack to the 2023 fantasy comedy film Barbie.]]" This is obviously Western pop culture and yet it has been given our highest accolade by being featured on the main page. If this is good enough for [[WP:TFA|TFA]] then it should be fine for ITN too. [[user:Andrew Davidson|Andrew]]🐉([[user talk:Andrew Davidson|talk]]) 18:26, 22 August 2025 (UTC)

[[Medtronic]], Inc. paid [[US$]] 1.35 billion to settle a [[patent]] [[lawsuit]] and also to acquire disputed spine surgery-related patents from [[surgeon]] turned [[inventor]] [[Gary K. Michelson]]. [http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/23/business/23medronic.html]

:::ITs not that we can't feature pop culture topics, but we have to be aware that the interest in outside sources and by Wikipedia editors generally far outweigh coverage of topics with more academic merit. So particularly for ITN, we should be very careful about caving into popularity as the sole driving reason to post a blurb. The Barbie song TFA is because editors did the work to advance the article beyond just being popular. We should expect the same for blurbs of RDs. Again, I use Hulk Hugan as a prime example where there was rationale beyond "he's famous" to post (I'll still disagree that it merited a blurb on those reasons but that's not the point here). And that's all I'm trying to make sure, to discourage editors coming here thinging that fame and popularity alone should merit larger mention. [[User:Masem|M<span style="font-variant: small-caps">asem</span>]] ([[User Talk:Masem|t]]) 19:51, 22 August 2025 (UTC)

::::It's not a case of pop culture keeping out the highbrow stuff because that's being shut out of ITN too. For recent examples, see the [[S/2025 U 1|Uranus moon]], the [[Global plastic pollution treaty]], [[Prescription drug prices in the United States|Pharmaceutical pricing]], [[Scientific misconduct|Scientific fraud]] and so on. Very few topics of any kind are getting through the nomination process and so we haven't posted a new blurb for an entire frigging week. The systemic bias at ITN is to only post a stream of death and disaster plus the ITN/R fast track items such as elections and sport. How come we don't hear the complaint about pop culture and popularity when it comes to football? It's a [[double standard]]. [[user:Andrew Davidson|Andrew]]🐉([[user talk:Andrew Davidson|talk]]) 20:39, 22 August 2025 (UTC)

:::::The pollution treaty thing didn't happen, and that's a standard practice we don't post things where the status quo remains, particularly if its a repeated failure. The Uranus moon is one of those things that as pointed out, dozens of moons in the solar system have been identified over the past couple years, making one moon discovery not that major of an event.

:::::I can't remember where the pharma pricing nomination was, but I do agree that when it comes to other scientific topics like scientific fraud, where the story is usualyl as a result of a peer-reviewed paper just published that establishes something, we have a lot of resistance to post such stories, because there's too much focus on things being "news" and not that the section is to feature topics that have been "in the news". And remember, I'm not talking about popular culture being bad, I'm saying that posting things just because the only rationale being thrown around is that its in popular culture is not helpful at all. A demonstrated story around a popular culture topic that shows why its significant (eg most of our sports results and entertainment awards) are fine. [[User:Masem|M<span style="font-variant: small-caps">asem</span>]] ([[User Talk:Masem|t]]) 13:39, 23 August 2025 (UTC)

::::{{ping|Masem}} A question: where does "academic merit" appear in [[WP:ITNPURPOSE]]? [[User:The ed17|Ed]]&nbsp;^{[[User talk:The ed17|[talk]]]&nbsp;[[WP:OMT|[OMT]]]} 20:56, 22 August 2025 (UTC)

:::::That's more the broader encyclopedic goal, to approach topics using high quality sources and for the long-term view, rather than just what what's hot at any given moment. [[User:Masem|M<span style="font-variant: small-caps">asem</span>]] ([[User Talk:Masem|t]]) 13:29, 23 August 2025 (UTC)

::::::Today's Featured Article is [[Satsu (Buffy the Vampire Slayer)|Satsu]] – "a fictional character in the ''Buffy the Vampire Slayer'' comics..." That's yet more Western pop culture and so this is a valid and respected part of the encyclopedia. [[user:Andrew Davidson|Andrew]]🐉([[user talk:Andrew Davidson|talk]]) 22:44, 24 August 2025 (UTC)

:::::::The purpose of [[WP:ITN]] is separate from [[WP:TFA]], and the systemic bias on TFA skewing towards Western pop culture has been known for some time. It is not recognized as a Good Thing in light of, as Masem says, the broader encyclopedic goal. _{Duly signed,} '''[[User:WaltCip|⛵ <span style="color: white; font-family: Verdana; font-weight: bold; background: linear-gradient(white, blue, navy, black)">WaltClipper</span> ]]'''-''<small>([[User talk:WaltCip|talk]])</small>'' 12:02, 25 August 2025 (UTC)

:::::::Also, the article is developed as encyclopedic content, focusing on the character's development, themes, and reception, rather than what you would see in a fan wiki or TVTropes. Wikipedia can do pop culture, but its got to be through a lens of an encyclopedia, not a glorified fan work. [[User:Masem|M<span style="font-variant: small-caps">asem</span>]] ([[User Talk:Masem|t]]) 12:17, 25 August 2025 (UTC)

:::::::: Today's Featured Article is a [[Born to Run|Bruce Springsteen album]] – yet more Western pop culture. It's abundantly clear that such articles are considered encyclopedic material of the finest sort. The prejudice of some ITN regulars against such topics is therefore a [[WP:LOCALCONSENSUS|narrow opinion]] rather than a general community standard. [[user:Andrew Davidson|Andrew]]🐉([[user talk:Andrew Davidson|talk]]) 19:14, 25 August 2025 (UTC)

:::::::::As long as the reason to post them is not solely due to popularity or fame, we should encourage these. Quality articles on pop cultural as long as they have developed the topic from an academic/encyclopedic stance, should be fine. The issue tends to be how encyclopedic/lasting that significant events involving pop culture items are, with truly significant events in pop cultural being rate. Consider the mess of that Oasis reunion tour a month ago. Pop culture news tends to be front loaded, and not reflective of what actually happens which is general how ITN tends to look for the point of posting.

::::::::: But it still the case we shouldn't be encouraging editors to put forth blurbs on pop culture items or figures solely on the basis of them being popular or fame, as that making the voting process a popularity contest as well as drowns out suggestions for improving the quality of the article to be even potable. [[User:Masem|M<span style="font-variant: small-caps">asem</span>]] ([[User Talk:Masem|t]]) 20:15, 25 August 2025 (UTC)

{{multiple image

It's nice to be an inventor! -- [[User:Toytoy|Toytoy]] 17:25, Apr 23, 2005 (UTC)

|align = right

|direction = horizontal

|image1 = Miguel Uribe.jpg

|width1 = 140

|height1 = 140

|image2 = Fernando Lugo - ITN.jpg

|width2 = 140

|height2 = 140

|footer = Will [[WP:LUGO]] be crowning a new champion before this month is out? _{Duly signed,} '''[[User:WaltCip|⛵ <span style="color: white; font-family: Verdana; font-weight: bold; background: linear-gradient(white, blue, navy, black)">WaltClipper</span> ]]'''-''<small>([[User talk:WaltCip|talk]])</small>'' 12:26, 22 August 2025 (UTC)

}}

I would be completely fine with having less strict significance-requirements for ITN posts, but even still we cannot skimp on quality requirements. I think that as long as an article is of sufficient quality, in the news, and updated significantly because of it, we could post it on ITN. However, it's a lot of work to write detailed updates to articles like those. ITN is ideal to celebrate our swift editing for huge news stories, or to celebrate our long-term editing on stories that build to a crescendo over time (like most spaceflight stories), but it tends to not work out great for new smaller news stories in my experience. And thus we get dry spells... ~[[User:Maplestrip|<span style="color:#005080">Maplestrip/Mable</span>]] ([[User talk:Maplestrip|<span style="color:#700090">chat</span>]]) 14:32, 26 August 2025 (UTC)

== CIA ==

[[CIA]] releases [[classified]] [[Vietnam War]] docs

[[Estimative Products on Vietnam: 1948-1975]] Should require some research.[http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20050429/pl_afp/usvietnamcia] -[[User:Stevertigo|SV]]|[[User_talk:Stevertigo|t]] 21:56, 29 Apr 2005 (UTC)

==Blank space==

There's a huge blank space at the bottom of DYK that could be filled with deleted news from ITN. &#8212;[[User:Cantus|Cantus]]&hellip;[[User talk:Cantus|<big><big>'''&#9742;'''</big></big>]] 02:01, May 3, 2005 (UTC)

== removal of updates in a featured news item ==

I removed the item on [[Victory in Europe Day|V-E Day]] commemorations from ITN because the updates have been removed from the wikipage. Instead, there is a link to Wikinews. I don't think an external link is good enough as an update for any page to be featured on ITN. But, do we have a policy on keeping the updated information on the wikipage when the wikipage is being featured on the MainPage ? -- [[User:PFHLai|PFHLai]] 15:17, 2005 May 9 (UTC)

== Rephrase an entry? ==

I know it's picky, but the phrasing of...

:''John Conyers and 88 members of U.S. Congress write an open letter to George W. Bush about the new documents leaked which apparently reveals the secret agreement between the United States and the United Kingdom to attack Iraq in 2002.''

gives the impression that the documents appear to reveal a secret agreement which was already known to exist, and it's a little clumsy. It might work better as:

:''John Conyers and 88 other members of the U.S. Congress write an open letter to George W. Bush about newly leaked documents which apparently reveal a secret agreement between the United States and the United Kingdom to attack Iraq in 2002.''

I hope that makes sense to anyone who's not me... [[User:Shimgray|Shimgray]] 02:25, 11 May 2005 (UTC)

== Content ==

Can we try and keep "In the news" front page news, not stories which you are personally attached to, or have an interest in. Check major English language outlets (BBC News, CNN, Google news etc.) before listing stories. [[User:Ed g2s|<font face="verdana">ed g2s</font>]] &bull; [[User talk:ed_g2s|<font face="verdana">talk</font>]] 18:25, 12 May 2005 (UTC)

:Is there a specific entry that caused this gripe? The M3 road? Or something else? [unsigned]

:He wants to keep the page biased towards American and British news stories. Yet more Anglo-American dominance. Today for example, there are stories about NASA (US), Sellafield (UK) and Congress (US). What he means is ''how dare a story not known about in the UK and the US be put on the front page!'' <font color="#006666">'''Fear'''<font color="#FF6600">'''''ÉIREANN'''''[[Image:Ireland flag large.png|25px]]\<font color=blue>^{[[user_talk:Jtdirl|(talk)]]}<font color=black> 19:52, 12 May 2005 (UTC)

:::This is nothing to do with Anglo-American dominance, in fact I can't think of many US/UK stories that are front-page worthy at the moment. I also do not appreciate the agressive tone of your post, you do seem to be having a problem with [[Wikipedia:Civility|being civil]]. Talk pages are for discussing issues, not personalities. [[User:Ed g2s|<font face="verdana">ed g2s</font>]] &bull; [[User talk:ed_g2s|<font face="verdana">talk</font>]] 02:24, 13 May 2005 (UTC)

::I agree that we should look for stories from beyond the US and UK, but there's also a need to keep the section changing, preferably with at least one new story each day. I added the Sellafield story thinking more "science" than "UK" as the topic. Sellafield was front page of the NZ Herald the day after I added it.-[[User:Gadfium|gadfium]] 00:37, 13 May 2005 (UTC)

:Hmmmm. "Anglo-American dominance"? Why is it that the inclusion of the US [[Super Bowl XXXIX|Super Bowl]] listing on this page causes [[Wikipedia:In_the_news_section_on_the_Main_Page/Candidates/Archive_1#February_7|debate and discussion]], while the [[UEFA Cup]] listing has been here for two days without drawing any comments? Does the UEFA Cup really get more worldwide media coverage than the Super Bowl? - [[User:Jpo|Jpo]] 21:56, May 21, 2005 (UTC)

::Because it's a slow news day. --[[User:Golbez|Golbez]] 22:27, May 21, 2005 (UTC)

== N3 road/M3 motorway ==

Note that according to the linked article [[N3 road]], it is the ''M3 motorway'' that's planned to run by the Hill of Tara. So the proper link is <nowiki>[[N3 road|M3 motorway]]</nowiki>--the "M3" is not a mistake. [[User:Demi|Demi]] ^{[[User_talk:Demi|T]]}/_{[[Special:Contributions/Demi|C]]} 05:34, 2005 May 13 (UTC)

== Encyclopedic? ==

I am sorry that I have to do this, but I can't be the only that sees this discrepancy... that is, why has [[N3 road]] been on the FRONT PAGE for so long [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:In_the_news&direction=next&oldid=13565798]. Is this really THE story we pride ourselves as encyclopedic? Is this an even we need to run around and update our history books... I know we're different, but is Britannica sweating that their not covering the M3? Why aren't we talking about [[May 2005 unrest in Uzbekistan|'''unrest in Uzbekistan''']], that's a history changer, or the [[Beatification]] of Pope John Paul II, or even [[Malcolm Glazer]] and the [[Manchester United F.C.|Manchester United]] event -- it'll be huge if this team becomes 'American owned'. Either way, we need to '''update our stories''' each day (or 30hrs), All Current Event articles should have a fair share on the homepage time split. Hope you understand, lets work together ~ [[User:RoboAction|RoboAction]] 00:47, 14 May 2005 (UTC)

:The proper place to make these recomendations is [[Wikipedia:In the news section on the Main Page/Candidates]]. [[User:BrokenSegue|'''B'''roken]][[User talk:BrokenSegue|'''S'''egue]] 02:09, 14 May 2005 (UTC)

==BRAC==

The Ellsworth and Hanscom Air Bases are no more inherently valuable than any of the other installations in the BRAC round (they're all on the chopping block, after all). The BRAC round also includes scores of smaller emplacements. --[[User:Alexwcovington|Alexwcovington]] ([[User talk:Alexwcovington|talk]]) 00:10, 15 May 2005 (UTC)

:Yes, but most people will focus on the major installations. More important is that the entry is in error. Hanscom is not closing. Major installations people are focusing on: Ellsworth AFB, Fort Monmouth, and Portsmouth Naval Shipyard. --[[User:Penta|Penta]] 00:23, 15 May 2005 (UTC)

== Guantánamo Bay Qur'an desecration allegations ==

* [[Guantánamo Bay Qur'an desecration allegations]]

We shall run this article. -- [[User:Toytoy|Toytoy]] 02:58, May 18, 2005 (UTC)

==House of Commons image==

[[Image:Parliament2.jpg|right|100px|Canadian House of Commons]]

Instead of having the Canadian flag here, which seems a bit generic and non-descriptive, how about using [[:Image:Parliament2.jpg|Image:Parliament2.jpg]]? &ndash;&nbsp;[[User:Mxn|Minh Nguy&#7877;n]] <small class="plainlinks">([[User talk:Mxn|talk]], [[Special:Contributions/Mxn|contribs]], [http://mxn.f2o.org/index.html blog])</small> 02:26, 21 May 2005 (UTC)

: I hope you don't feel ignored, [[User:Mxn|Minh Nguy&#7877;n]]. Just wanna mentioned that your suggested photo was the original image used. It was taken out after being on the MainPage all night. The flag was not expected to stay there for so long ..... -- [[User:PFHLai|PFHLai]] 20:29, 2005 May 23 (UTC)

==Eurovision song contest?==

I do not consider the Eurovision song contest news of international importance. Same for Super Bowl, Academy Awards, American Idol, etc. Being a North American, what is the Eurovision song contest? This does not need to be on the front page. I think this should be replaced with more important news. [[User:Andrew pmk|Andrew pmk]] 01:16, 22 May 2005 (UTC)

:It's a ''really'' slow news day. --[[User:Golbez|Golbez]] 02:05, May 22, 2005 (UTC)

::We could put up a picture of Saddam in his undies instead. But in all seriousness, how is this more important than [[American Idol]]? --<font size="2" face="garamond" color="#3979BF">[[user:tomf688|tomf688]]</font>^{([[User talk:Tomf688|talk]])} 02:29, May 22, 2005 (UTC)

:::As I understand it, much of its newsworthiness has to do with its not being American. I don't doubt that a news item on the winner of American Idol would cause an eruption of Righteous Rage and be swiftly removed. {{User:Rdsmith4/Sig}} 03:09, May 22, 2005 (UTC)

:It's definetly notable. It's important to all of Europe. Some countries go to the point of idiocy over it. The Super Bowl is American only, American Idol is national, and the Academy Awards doesn't have a certain major award. [[User:Hedley|Hedley]] 13:44, 22 May 2005 (UTC)

::"News of international importance" is very subjective. If we just limit ourselves to international politics, government, law and natural disasters it is very bland news indeed. Considering most news items don't stay on the Main Page for long, I'm weakly in favour of allowing news items like Eurovision on the Main Page, so long as it can be bumped off if any more significant news comes along. - [[User:Mark|Mark]] 14:00, 22 May 2005 (UTC)

:::To be fair I find it more interesting than the rain in Honduras. [[User:Violetriga|violet/riga]] [[User_talk:violetriga|(t)]] 14:09, 22 May 2005 (UTC)

::::Yes, but it's not more important than the rain. If we leave it up, the next time we want post some trivial American event let the Europeans remember this. [[User:BrokenSegue|'''B'''roken]][[User talk:BrokenSegue|'''S'''egue]] 14:17, 22 May 2005 (UTC)

:::::It's not a trivial event considering that there are ~50 countries involved and it's a first-time winner for Greece. I'm not saying that I totally agree on it being there but it'll do for now. [[User:Violetriga|violet/riga]] [[User_talk:violetriga|(t)]] 14:22, 22 May 2005 (UTC)

::::::Its a song contest. --<font size="2" face="garamond" color="#3979BF">[[user:tomf688|tomf688]]</font>^{([[User talk:Tomf688|talk]])} 14:59, May 22, 2005 (UTC)

:::::::: This song contest is an international cultural event with a high profile and a long history. -- [[User:PFHLai|PFHLai]] 06:21, 2005 May 23 (UTC)

:::::::There is a weather event on there at the moment. And the Olympics are a sports event, but I'd expect to see the overall winner appear on there. I have no problem with it being taken down if there are decent stories to replace it (and would like to see that happen), but for now there isn't anything worthy of going up there. [[User:Violetriga|violet/riga]] [[User_talk:violetriga|(t)]] 15:06, 22 May 2005 (UTC)

:::::It's not a trivial event when 39 countries actively participate in something, and many more watch. That's why it counts as "news of international importance", to some degree on a quiet news day, rather than one-country only sports events like the Super Bowl. Otherwise we could have put the [[FA Cup]] final up today... -- [[User:Arwel Parry|Arwel ]] 15:56, 22 May 2005 (UTC)

:::::: The FA Cup, widely reported in newspapers around the world, is now posted on ITN. -- [[User:PFHLai|PFHLai]] 05:51, 2005 May 23 (UTC)

Nobody cares about Eurovision outside Europe. We should instead have items on [[Afghanistan]], [[North Korea]] and [[Iraq]]. It's not a slow news day. --[[User:Hemanshu|Just my 2 cents -- Hemanshu ]] 16:06, 22 May 2005 (UTC)

:Care to elaborate? What happened in Afghanistan, Korea and Iraq in the last 2 days that's worthy of ITN, apart from perhaps the fertilizer shipment from South to North Korea? Don't forget that ITN requires an article update to companion the entry. --[[User:Golbez|Golbez]] 22:34, May 22, 2005 (UTC)

Instead of complaining, the best way to deal with this is to update an article with news materials, update [[Current events]] and post it on ITN (or the Candidate page for non-Admins) to displace an old item, and eventually the item you don't think deserve to be there. A line on the young Chilean soldiers frozen to death would be appropriate, but I don't know what page should get the update. The last United Nations peacekeepers leaving East Timor would be good, too, but [[United Nations Mission of Support to East Timor]] is a red link. [[Etoumbi]] is too stubby to feature for the Ebola outbreak there. Any new developments regarding land reform in Brazil after the 17-day march of the Landless Workers' Movement ? Too old ? ... I give up. ... Perhaps the local elections in [[North Rhine-Westphalia]], which prompted the German national elections to take place a year early, should be considered. Could someone familiar with politics in Germany take a look at this, please ? -- [[User:PFHLai|PFHLai]] 06:21, 2005 May 23 (UTC)

: We now have 2 new items on ITN. Yeah ! -- [[User:PFHLai|PFHLai]] 08:08, 2005 May 23 (UTC)

The eurovision song contest was a nice piece of interesting news. The viewing figures for the final were nearly 80 million and this excludes Australians (which, btw [[User:Golbez|Golbez]], is outside of Europe) who watched it 12 hours later. If you have never heard of the contest [[User:Andrew pmk|Andrew pmk]], then you should have clicked on the link and read about it. What's the point in having an encyclopaedia if you're uninteresting in things you don't already know about? [[User:Dmn|Dmn]] '''/''' [[User talk:Dmn|&#1332;&#1396;&#1398;]] 09:22, 26 May 2005 (UTC)

== European hegemony ==

THREE items on ITN are about Europe. Clearly, there is an anti-American bias at work. *snigger* --[[User:Golbez|Golbez]] 14:02, May 23, 2005 (UTC)

:Has the Newsweek scandal been on ITN yet? That's certainly international, and more interesting than a song contest. ;) --<font size="2" face="garamond" color="#3979BF">[[user:tomf688|tomf688]]</font>^{([[User talk:Tomf688|talk]])} 14:24, May 23, 2005 (UTC)

::Oh, great, three European items and then an anti-American item. Truly, the anti-US bias on ITN is mindboggling! --[[User:Golbez|Golbez]] 15:46, May 23, 2005 (UTC)

::: European hegemony ? Mongolia is rather far away from Europe, eh ! ^_^ .... Last week's Newsweek scandal was suggested at the Candidates' page. At the time, I declined to post it on the MainPage while the [[Guantánamo Bay Qur'an desecration allegations]] page carries a <nowiki>{{cleanup}}</nowiki> tag. If I had known that the tag was removed soon after, I would have waited and posted it on ITN. Now, it's old news..... The last few departed items were about Canada, Central America and Angola. It must be very peaceful / boring in the US of A these days ..... -- [[User:PFHLai|PFHLai]] 20:17, 2005 May 23 (UTC)

== "Soccer" ==

Do we have to call it soccer? I say this because very few people in Liverpool would call it "soccer". It is football. [[User:Smoddy|Smoddy]] [[User talk:Smoddy|(Rabbit and pork)]] 08:38, 26 May 2005 (UTC)

:I think since we're talking about UK/Euro football, it's reasonable to change it. Done. [[User:Markalexander100|Mark]][[User talk:Markalexander100|¹]] 09:13, 26 May 2005 (UTC)

:: I like your edit summary, [[User:Markalexander100|Mark]]. ;-) -- [[User:64.229.206.213|64.229.206.213]] 14:42, 26 May 2005 (UTC)

==Someone please add this==

* A coalition of citizen groups will ask [[Congress]] to file a formal "'''Resolution of Inquiry'''", the first necessary legal step to determine whether [[George W. Bush|U.S. President Bush]] has committed impeachable offenses. The request, written by Boston constitutional attorney [[John C. Bonifaz]], cites the [[Downing Street memo]] and issues surrounding the planning and execution of the [[2003 invasion of Iraq|Iraq war]].

[[User:Kevin_baas|Kevin Baas]]^{[[User_talk:Kevin_baas|talk]]: [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Kevin_baas&action=edit&section=new new]} 22:25, 2005 May 26 (UTC)

:People ask Congress to do stuff all the time. Ask again if Congress actually does something about the request. -- [[User:Cyrius|Cyrius]]|[[User talk:Cyrius|&#9998;]] 02:39, 27 May 2005 (UTC)

: (via edit conflict) Is this newsworthy? Which prominent American or world publications have covered it? Also, which Wikipedia article has been updated with the news? (Further guidelines are at [[Wikipedia:In the news section on the Main Page]]; also, submissions are normally made at [[Wikipedia:In the news section on the Main Page/Candidates]].) {{User:Rdsmith4/Sig}} 02:41, May 27, 2005 (UTC)

Thanks. Wikipedia articles that have been updated:

# [[Tony Blair]]

# [[War on terrorism]]

# [[Iraq disarmament crisis]]

# [[American government position on invasion of Iraq]]

# [[Governments' pre-war positions on invasion of Iraq]]

# [[Coalition of the willing]]

# [[2003 invasion of Iraq]]

# [[John Conyers]]

# [[Paul Craig Roberts]]

# [[George W. Bush]]

# [[Current events]] (ofcourse)

The news is very recent and so far has only been picked up by 4 news sources.

[[User:Kevin_baas|Kevin Baas]]^{[[User_talk:Kevin_baas|talk]]: [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Kevin_baas&action=edit&section=new new]} 03:01, 2005 May 27 (UTC)

: How about mentioning this news item on the page of the author of the written request ? [[John C. Bonifaz]] is no longer a red link. -- [[User:199.71.174.100|199.71.174.100]] 20:42, 28 May 2005 (UTC)

== Attn: Sysops ---- Please update [[Template:In the news]]. ==

[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:In_the_news_section_on_the_Main_Page/Candidates&diff=14369384&oldid=14358547 This edit summary] at [[Wikipedia:In the news section on the Main Page/Candidates]] is disconcerting .... -- [[User:199.71.174.100|199.71.174.100]] 05:34, 29 May 2005 (UTC)

==62%==

Update Dutch referendum to 62%. &#8212;[[User:Cantus|Cantus]]&hellip;[[User talk:Cantus|<big><big>'''&#9742;'''</big></big>]] 03:09, Jun 2, 2005 (UTC)

==Proxmire==

IMHO [[William Proxmire]]'s death is notable enough to belong in in the news. [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Recent_deaths&diff=0&oldid=14612962] [[User:JohnKenney|John Kenney]] 00:14, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)

:IMHO he's not. I'd think that only major presidents and politicians and such would count; a three-term Wisconsin senator doesn't seem to cut it. For example, I don't think I'd even support mentioning ol' [[Jesse Helms]] on here. Strom Thurmond, maybe. --[[User:Golbez|Golbez]] 03:41, Jun 3, 2005 (UTC)

==[[Srebrenica Massacre]]==

I think perhaps there should be some mention of the recent controversy related to the Srebrenica Massacre. For those of you who don't know, a video showing the execution of 6 civilians from Srebrenica in 1995 by a unit under the command of the Serbian govt was revealed during Hague testimony and has since been shown throughout the balkans. [[User:Asim Led|Asim Led]] 05:13, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)

:They couldn't give a shit about anything unless it's american, so don't bother. No there is a spelling bee on there in place of important news about Srebrenica

::In fact it's possible this story has not even been mentioned on some american tv news, so we can't really blame Wikipedia for not knowing about it, but they should make an effort, maybe check international news websites sometimes

:::If you want it on here, mention it on the Candidates page. The chap who wanted the spelling bee item did, and look where it got him! Buck up, chaps. --[[User:Golbez|Golbez]] 20:19, Jun 3, 2005 (UTC)

::::Can someone tell me what the controversy is actually about? Are people disputing the accuracy of the videotapes? Or do they think it is inappropiate? --[[User:Fangz|Fangz]] 15:58, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC)

==Walter Mondale==

See [[recent deaths]] and [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Walter_Mondale&diff=0&oldid=14714661]. The death of a former vice president definately belongs in the in the news box. [[User:JohnKenney|John Kenney]] 23:37, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC)

:Sorry but I've got to disagree with that one. [[User:Violetriga|violet/riga]] [[User_talk:violetriga|(t)]] 23:44, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC)

::You are aware that he was the Democratic nominee for president in 1984 against Ronald Reagan, right? Not including his death in "in the news" would make as little sense as not including the story, if (say) Al Gore died. [[User:JohnKenney|John Kenney]] 23:47, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC)

:::This probably should go on the front page. However, I can't find anywhere confirming his death. If I see it, I'll add it. [[User:Dmn|Dmn]] '''/''' [[User talk:Dmn|&#1332;&#1396;&#1398;]] 23:56, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC)

::::"Walter Mondale dies" and "Walter Mondale died" get a total of three google hits, none of which actually state that he did recently. One says 'I'd like to be there when Mondale dies' (paraphrased), one refers to the death of Mondale's brother, and one states 'raise your hand if you thought Walter Mondale died ten years ago'. [[User:Ingoolemo|<font color=blue>&rarr;I&ntilde;g&#333;lemo&larr;</font>]]&nbsp;[[User_talk:Ingoolemo|<font color=blue>^talk</font>]] 00:03, 2005 Jun 5 (UTC)

::::The user who recommended this addition is not [[User:John Kenney]], but [[User:JohnKenney]], an impersonator (check his contributions). [[User:Ingoolemo|<font color=blue>&rarr;I&ntilde;g&#333;lemo&larr;</font>]]&nbsp;[[User_talk:Ingoolemo|<font color=blue>^talk</font>]] 00:04, 2005 Jun 5 (UTC)

:::::Did this user 'fake the death' of someone called [[William Proxmire]] earlier? [[User:Dmn|Dmn]] '''/''' [[User talk:Dmn|&#1332;&#1396;&#1398;]] 00:11, 5 Jun 2005 (UTC)

:Yeah, this appears to be a hoax. {{User:Rdsmith4/Sig}} 00:12, Jun 5, 2005 (UTC)

::I've blocked [[User:JohnKenney]]. [[User:Dmn|Dmn]] '''/''' [[User talk:Dmn|&#1332;&#1396;&#1398;]] 00:16, 5 Jun 2005 (UTC)

:Interestingly, an IP from Cambridge University vandalized my userpage with a redirect to yours shortly thereafter. We seem to get a lot of hoaxes from the people at Cambridge. {{User:Rdsmith4/Sig}} 00:24, Jun 5, 2005 (UTC)

== Gitmo Qu'ran desecration (June 4) ==

IMHO, the link to "The Pentagon" should be piped to "United States Department of Defense", like this:

*<nowiki>[[United States Department of Defense|The Pentagon]]</nowiki>

Reason: The article at "The Pentagon" is about the building. The phrase "The Pentagon" is commonly used as a metonym for the USDOD, much like "The White House" is commonly used to refer to the (U.S.) Presidency. The Pentagon (the building) obviously can't confirm or deny anything, but USDOD certainly can. I'm an admin, so I could do it myself, but I want to see what others think of this idea. [[User:Dale Arnett|Dale Arnett]] 05:40, 5 Jun 2005 (UTC)

: Agreed. Maybe we shall start to use USDOD instead of The Pentagon the next time we talk about the Department. It shall become an official policy because we are writing for all readers, not just U.S. readers or native English speakers. By the way, the page is now renamed to [[Desecration of the Qur'an at Guantánamo Bay]]. -- [[User:Toytoy|My true identity: The Depth-Challenged Throat]] 11:02, Jun 5, 2005 (UTC)

::It's normally called "the Pentagon" even by people outside the US. (Besides, "the US Department of Defense" is too long and no one outside the US would know what "USDOD" or "US DOD" meant.) [[User:Proteus|Proteus]] [[User_talk:Proteus|(Talk)]] 11:52, 5 Jun 2005 (UTC)

::: If length is not an issue, <nowiki>[[United States Department of Defense|Department of Defense]]</nowiki> or <nowiki>[[United States Department of Defense|Dept of Defense]]</nowiki> will be more explicit. -- [[User:Toytoy|My true identity: The Depth-Challenged Throat]] 18:07, Jun 5, 2005 (UTC)

::::I don't think we need to be more explicit than to say <nowiki>[[United States Department of Defense|The Pentagon]]</nowiki>. I think that is sufficiently clear and concise to everyone, not just Americans. That is certainly how it is referred to in the UK. [[User:smoddy|smoddy]] 19:16, 5 Jun 2005 (UTC)

When we talk about the daily "sodium intake", we do not mean to take a bite of sodium the metal. It always means sodium chloride. However, I think the separation of the USDOD and its main building is a good practice. It pays to be precise. At least to me, I cannot be sure if 1000 mg of "sodium" means 1000 mg of Na⁺ ion or 1000 mg of NaCl. (You may intake sodium ion from other sources such as [[monosodium glutamate|MSG]].) -- [[User:Toytoy|My true identity: The Depth-Challenged Throat]] 20:11, Jun 5, 2005 (UTC)

==Look at candidates==

Can you people take a look at [[Wikipedia:In the news section on the Main Page/Candidates]] and update at least the tennis item?? Protecting this template was a really lousy idea. —[[User:Cantus|Cantus]]&hellip;[[User talk:Cantus|<big><big>'''&#9742;'''</big></big>]] 18:31, Jun 6, 2005 (UTC)

:I've seen the suggestions and I dislike both, but I'll update the tennis. [[User:Dmn|Dmn]] '''/''' [[User talk:Dmn|&#1332;&#1396;&#1398;]] 18:53, 6 Jun 2005 (UTC)

::Thanks for that comment. Now I'm going to ask Jimbo to unprotect this page. This is too much. —[[User:Cantus|Cantus]]&hellip;[[User talk:Cantus|<big><big>'''&#9742;'''</big></big>]] 21:19, Jun 6, 2005 (UTC)

:::Yeah, goatse is always preferable to stale news. {{User:Rdsmith4/Sig}} 22:10, Jun 6, 2005 (UTC)

This template is way too large for the Main Page. Some items need to be purged. —[[User:Cantus|Cantus]]&hellip;[[User talk:Cantus|<big><big>'''&#9742;'''</big></big>]] 21:15, Jun 6, 2005 (UTC)

== Wrong info on Hungarian Presidential elections ==

Wikipedia headlines say that [[László Sólyom]] is the leader of the opposition. This is not true however, he was only the ''candidate'' of the opposition, as he is not a member of any party. Hope you'll correct it. --[[User:Sicboy|Sicboy]] 23:34, 2005 Jun 7 (UTC)

Also, if he's the guy pictured, shouldn't the entry say (pictured at right)? [[User:Bloodshedder|Bloodshedder]] 20:24, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC)

==Demonstrations wording in Ethiopian item==

The item about the killings in Ethiopia says "..killed at demonstrations in Addis Ababa between police and students..." This would be better worded as: "...killed ''in'' clashes between the police and students following demonstrations in Addis Ababa..." Currently it makes it sound like the police were also demonstrating somehow, which I'd guess they weren't... &mdash; [[User:Pmcm|pmcm]] 17:01, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC)

:Changed it, but the wording is quite tricky when you try to reconcile the government account. Their version is that the protesters injured themselves, though <sarcasm> I haven't heard their explanation of how the protestors managed to get bullets from police guns in their bodies without the police shooting them. Those tricky demonstrators! </sarcasm> - [[User:BanyanTree|<nowiki></nowiki>]][[User:BanyanTree|Banyan]][[User talk:BanyanTree|Tree]] 17:44, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Much better, thanks! &mdash; [[User:Pmcm|pmcm]] 23:07, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC)

== Change the image if you change the top story ==

Could whomever changes the top story, also remember to change or remove the image as well? I've seen non-matching images several times recently ([http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:In_the_news&oldid=14823502 900 year old European constitution?], [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:In_the_news&oldid=14853004 Mugabe presedent of Hungary?]) and I never know if the image actually corresponds to the top story unless I either look at the alt-text or click on it.

[[User:Darrien|Darrien]] 08:43, 2005 Jun 9 (UTC)

== Bolivia ==

No mention about what's happening in Bolivia? Google News puts Bolivia on top, with 1024 articles off the main article...here it's not even mentioned. [[User:Ruy Lopez|Ruy Lopez]] 03:04, 10 Jun 2005 (UTC)

:Bolivia just fell off ITN because nobody had offered an update. Feel free to do so. - [[User:BanyanTree|<nowiki></nowiki>]][[User:BanyanTree|Banyan]][[User talk:BanyanTree|Tree]] 06:20, 10 Jun 2005 (UTC)

== Protecting images from Commons ==

Is there a policy regarding protecting images that are from Commons, as the current picture of the Bolivian president is? I can't seem to find any discussion on the ITN pages. - [[User:BanyanTree|<nowiki></nowiki>]][[User:BanyanTree|Banyan]][[User talk:BanyanTree|Tree]] 15:47, 10 Jun 2005 (UTC)

:I agree &ndash; they do need protecting. Do you have a commons account? I get the impression that pretty much any respected contributor from all wikimedia projects can get adminship at the commons, if they have an account there. Do you? I think it is desirable to have such a system. At the moment, it suggests requesting it on IRC. I don't think that is long-term practical, though. [[User:smoddy|smoddy]] 17:27, 10 Jun 2005 (UTC)

::I guess I'd better go create an account... - [[User:BanyanTree|<nowiki></nowiki>]][[User:BanyanTree|Banyan]][[User talk:BanyanTree|Tree]] 18:24, 10 Jun 2005 (UTC)

::That's not true. There is a strong dislike against people just saying "I'm an admin on so and so project, so give me admin status here". One recent candidate for adminship over there did something along those lines and was voted down, despite being an admin on en, I think. That said, the requirements are fairly loose. It does help if you have established yourself elsewhere, but they expect you to have done some work on commons as well. Although my experience probably isn't like others, I made commons admin after about 3 months, ~150 edits to images, Commons: space, and vandalism fighting, but I imagine it did help to have admin status and 6000 edits (at that time) on en. [[User:CryptoDerk|CryptoDerk]] 18:50, Jun 10, 2005 (UTC)

:::Given the lack of a efficient mechanism for protection in these cases, I suppose the obvious solution is to not use images from commons, which sort of defeats its purpose. Or at least it's a solution for those en admins who aren't admins on commons...- [[User:BanyanTree|<nowiki></nowiki>]][[User:BanyanTree|Banyan]][[User talk:BanyanTree|Tree]] 19:29, 10 Jun 2005 (UTC)

:::: Try uploading the same image onto English Wikipedia from the Commons, then it can be protected. The same file name can be re-used.

:::: BTW, the current image on ITN, [[:Image:Asafa powell.jpg]], needs to be verified for its copyright status and protected. Thanks. -- 11:34, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC)

::::* Taken care of. [[User:Fawcett5|Fawcett5]] 12:55, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC)

::::: Thanks. -- 13:10, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC)

== MJ Trial ==

Simply out of curiosity - wasn't the result posted here at wikipedia even before it was out!! Is it not unfair that even though the last verdict was being read someone had already posted not guilty on the main page.

==Opinion Poll==

The TMS/MRBI poll on the EU constitution is newsworthy for a number of reasons:

* It proves that the votes in France and the Netherlands were not isolated incidents but part of a wider attitude sweeping Europe;

* Until the poll, the presumption both in the Irish Government and in the EU headquarters was that Ireland was a ''dead cert'' to vote ''yes''. The poll changed overnight that perspective. It added further pressure to abandon the constitution entirely;

* TMS/MRBI [[The Irish Times|Irish Times]] polls are regarded within Ireland as ''the'' most reliable and trustworthy polls done. A bad result in one of their polls is universally seen as the 'kiss of death'. Politicians and pollsters alive swear by them. Whatever other polls say, you don't ''really'' believe you are winning (or losing) until an MRBI poll says so. They are universally regarded as gospel. One writer (in a rival paper) joked that "if an MRBI poll says you are dead, you'd better go out and buy the coffin."

So this is not a case of simply reporting any old poll, but a notoriously reliable poll that reveals that the European Constitution is in even more trouble than expected, with even the ''dead cert'' supposedly ''pro-yes'' Irish actually being a ''dead cert'' 'no'. With the French and Dutch voting 'no', the Danish about to vote 'no', and now the Irish in an MRBI poll polling 'no', the constitution is not merely in critical condition but stone dead. <font color="#006666">'''Fear'''<font color="#FF6600">'''''ÉIREANN'''''[[Image:Ireland flag large.png|25px]]\<font color=blue>^{[[user_talk:Jtdirl|(talk)]]}<font color=black> 19:12, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)

:But no bolded article, ergo no place in ITN. [[User:smoddy|smoddy]] 19:25, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)

:''(Edit conflicted):'' :I'm not arguing its newsworthiness. It simply does not meet the [[Wikipedia:In the news section on the Main Page]] criteria, in particular there was no bolded link to the article with the updated information. [[European Constitution]] states "In June 2005 an unsourced opinion poll in Ireland predicted that the European Constitution would be defeated in a referendum, if one was to take place in the immediate future", which is must less specific than the info in the ITN blurb and hardly helps the reader who wants to know more about the most recent event. That's why I simply didn't bold [[European Constitution]]. Knowing quite little about this topic, it seems the most logical place to put the updated information you have described above is [[Irish referendum on the European Constitution]]. Cheers, [[User:BanyanTree|<nowiki></nowiki>]][[User:BanyanTree|Banyan]][[User talk:BanyanTree|Tree]] 19:28, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)

The wording is the responsibility of a notorious troll who has been vandalising everything I write of late. The individual concerned is currently the subject of an investigation by the Arbitration Committee. He has previously added in fiction and misinformation on other articles. I will correct that page to read what I had been trying to add in when I got caught up in an edit conflict with the individual. (Though going by his past behaviour he will no doubt doctor that too and appear here delivering more personal abuse. His behaviour is currently being monitored by senior wikipedians and action is likely against him.) <font color="#006666">'''Fear'''<font color="#FF6600">'''''ÉIREANN'''''[[Image:Ireland flag large.png|25px]]\<font color=blue>^{[[user_talk:Jtdirl|(talk)]]}<font color=black> 19:40, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)

It requires far too much context to try to put a case for the newsworthiness of this poll. Therefore it does not belong on the front page.

*Who said Ireland was a dead cert to vote yes? It's already voted no in a previous referendum!

*Czech Republic and UK are also expected to vote no. Five no's or six is hardly a big deal.

*The EU summit tomorrow is expected to put the whole ratification process on hold, rendering the opinion poll insignificant and providing a more significant story happening in the more immediate future.

*Suggesting "30% would vote Yes" is a gross misreading of the poll figures. The context is: 30% Yes, 35% No, 35% not sure/no opinion. That's 46% Yes. [[User:Joestynes|Joestynes]] 09:51, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)

== Punctuation mark missing ==

The current top item on ITN, the one about whaling, could use a [[full stop]]. Thanks. -- [[User:65.95.104.93|65.95.104.93]] 16:21, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)