Grants talk:IdeaLab/Hindi Wikipedia Outreach: Difference between revisions
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== Outreach ==
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{{closed|text= Feel free to give more suggestions in new topic}}
Workshops are not known to be effective at recruiting participants, unless there is very focused selection and tracking of participants.
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::::In general, the Indian origin community in the United States has very high literacy rates. They are also well-versed in English as well as Hindi. Access to Internet is not an issue for this demographic. Enthusiasm for advancement of Indic languages is also evident by the many initiatives being pursued by this group. [[User:AbhiSuryawanshi|AbhiSuryawanshi]] ([[User talk:AbhiSuryawanshi|talk]]) 18:24, 25 September 2017 (UTC)
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== Some problems ==
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{{done}} - Solved.
{{closed|text= Feel free to ask new questions in separate section}}
I'm Active user and reviewer on Hindi Wikipedia. In my information hindi wiki dont know about this proposal. No any discussion i local village pump. All endorsement are very old, sice 2014. Community do not know about this. After endorsement that time this proposal is totally changed now.user submitted this high budget request without community discussion.--[[User:आर्यावर्त|आर्यावर्त]] ([[User talk:आर्यावर्त|talk]]) 16:30, 26 September 2017 (UTC)
::This proposal came out of Hindi Wikipedia 2014 and 2015 meet-up and national conference. Photos as well as links provided. Apart from that in last two months, updated links were shared on all possible platforms. Sorry if you missed them, I am listing notifications -
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:::::Can you please give us some feedback on designed program? How can we make it better? Do you think Hindi Wikipedia can get benefits from mentioned partnerships? [[User:AbhiSuryawanshi|AbhiSuryawanshi]] ([[User talk:AbhiSuryawanshi|talk]]) 09:32, 1 October 2017 (UTC)
:::::
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== Questions ==
1. Of the 258 million Hindi speakers, as claimed by you, how many are in India? I don't have figures but would I be wrong in guessing that at least 200 million reside in India? With these many people already in India, why should we & the foundation need to spend money on outreach programs outside of India; like the Indian Embassy in New York or World Hindi Secretariat (based in Mauritius)? Isn't focusing within India a better, cheaper, effective and more productive way for progress of the Hindi Wikipedia and other Hindi language based projects? [[User:Dharmadhyaksha|Dharmadhyaksha]] ([[User talk:Dharmadhyaksha|talk]]) 09:36, 28 September 2017 (UTC)
=== Response===
The notion that WMF needs to provide more intervention in India is beyond any doubt. Similarly, the idea that state(government) in India should focus more and also extensively in India is also beyond any argument to contest. Still, the Indian state invests abroad (appendix chart listed) and so do we plan. The expicit reasons are listed.
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::I am making an attempt to list down all your concerns, I hope, I have not missed on any of them. Please notify me otherwise.
::This proposal is with prime focus on forming partnerships with mentioned organizations. Combined - if successful we hope to reach out to 50,000+ people outside India. This includes outreach at World Hindi Conference organized by World Hindi Secretariat next year.
::On an average embassy conducts Hindi classes for 3000+ people every year, this partnership will also give us access to these Hindi passionate population.
::No one is happy to call them BIMARU. If it seems so, I condemn that. BIMARU is an acronym for some of the most poor states in India. The problem is ::not essentially to do with Internet Connection or even rise in literacy levels with schools penetration. As India progress economically its brings ::good fortune and also increases internet penetration. The idea is essentially to do with increasing penetration of Wikimedia Projects out there slowly ::and steadily. This is already happening. 2017 registered the first conference in Bhopal and the 2nd would happen in Jaipur. This is a commendable ::step and must be welcomed.
::Even this project is a small step with country specific (United States of America). Slowly and steadily we will expand to other nations where Indian ::diaspora is present such as United Kingdom. But then I would like to reiterate, only slowly and steadily not in a haste.
::No, they do not. We have explicitly mentioned above,” more intervention in India is beyond any doubt.” We have also mentioned the rationale before on ::why government invests abroad. One may have a question on why government needs to do this, one needs to understand that Indian Diaspora is the highest ::in the world and irrespective they live outside their home in India and they are our part of our culture that includes language. It is for this ::reason, the Indian Constitution under Article 351 says,
::''“Directive for development of the Hindi language It shall be the duty of the Union to promote the spread of the Hindi language, to develop it so ::that it may serve as a medium of expression for all the elements of the composite culture of India and to secure its enrichment by assimilating ::without interfering with its genius, the forms, style and expressions used in Hindustani and in the other languages of India specified in the Eighth Schedule……”''
::Indian Diaspora also falls under the composite culture and so government invests abroad.
::Firstly, possibilities of 100% sponsorship still exist. The fact that 25% has already been achieved is a step in that process. On the cost of living ::issue, please understand, it is not sufficient for survival in New York with that limited resources. The reference work on this has already been ::shared before. Hence, the grantee is taking a very nominal amount for survival and would more or less still continue to be associated as a volunteer ::in his capacity. Cost are only for basic expenses.
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::Secondly, minimal costs are also attained keeping in mind the legislations in New York pertaining to minimum wages.
::Impossible due to legalities. It looks great in theory but not possible.
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::Because of these limitations, Indian organizations can not spend money or resources to do major work such as working with foreign organizations ::supported by foreign governments.
::There is no attempt to provide any distinction. We refer to highest office. We are in talks with Embassies which fall directly under the Ministry of ::External Affairs, colleges and school still go with a hierarchy. But then, we really don’t intent to sound like that.
::On partnership programs - For Hindi Wikipedia, this is the first partnership in general. -[[User:Abhinav619|Abhinav619]] ([[User talk:Abhinav619|talk]]) 14:26, 3 October 2017 (UTC)
* Person asking the questions should close it. I have removed the pseudo close tag from this. [[User:Dharmadhyaksha|Dharmadhyaksha]] ([[User talk:Dharmadhyaksha|talk]]) 08:32, 10 November 2017 (UTC)
== Big gambling on the only one program ==
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{{done}} - Solved, it is not gambling and it won't affect other Hindi grants. Additional request for clarifications were directed towards WMF. [[Grants talk:IdeaLab/Hindi Wikipedia Outreach#Community questions to WMF|Answered by WMF Staff]].
{{closed|text= WMF also replied back to these concerns below in [[Grants talk:IdeaLab/Hindi Wikipedia Outreach#Community questions to WMF|separate topic]]. Feel free to ask new questions in separate section}}
जो व्यक्ति केवल ग्रांट के लिए आते है वो सही नहीं है। उनका योगदान भी होना चाहिए। 28 लाख कोई मामूली रकम नहीं है। मै हिन्दी विकि पर जब से आया हू तब से अभी तक भोपाल सम्मेलन हुआ है जो रैपिड ग्रांट पर था लगभग 1.5 लाखा का। अगर दो लाख का भी हम ओसत ले तो हम 14 सम्मेलन 28 लाख मे करा सकते है। और छोटे मोटे कॉलेज मे शिक्षण भी कर सकते है। यदि 14 सम्मेलन मे 10 मे भी शिक्षण किया और 5 सदस्य प्रति शिक्षण जोड़े तो 50 लोग भी हिन्दी विकि पर बहुत मदद कर सकते है। लेकिन 28 लाख एक ही चीज पर खर्चा करना सही है। एक वैश्विक नीति है कि Don't put all egg in One Basket अर्थात सारे अंडे एक ही टोकरी मे मत डालो। हमे भी केवल छोटे छोटे कार्यक्रम करने चाहिए। और उनमे मिली नाकामी से सीखना चाहिए। 28 लाख का जुआ एक कार्यक्रम पर बिलकुल सही नहीं है। और जो लोग केवल ग्रांट के लिए आ रहे है उन्हे रोका जाना चाहिए।-[[User:Jayprakash12345|Jayprakash12345]] ([[User talk:Jayprakash12345|talk]]) 09:50, 29 September 2017 (UTC)
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*WMF answered your prime query about putting all eggs in one basket and gambling. You can find detailed answers here : [[Grants talk:IdeaLab/Hindi Wikipedia Outreach#Community questions to WMF]]. This discussion is inactive from more than 7 days and it will be marked as closed after 3 days. You may post new questions in new section. -- [[User:AbhiSuryawanshi|AbhiSuryawanshi]] ([[User talk:AbhiSuryawanshi|talk]]) 21:17, 16 October 2017 (UTC)
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== Notification to endorsees for updation in proposal post their endorsements ==
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::: In fact I will be editing the proposal for possible grammatical and formatting errors as I will get time. Thank you. -- [[User:Abhijeet Safai|Abhijeet Safai]] ([[User talk:Abhijeet Safai|talk]]) 05:08, 3 October 2017 (UTC)
:::: Everyone is free to criticize the proposal. But I can see that some people have tried to make personal attack on Mr. Abhishek by saying that he is a fraud! I would like to bring it to their attention that this is highly unacceptable and I have felt a lot bad by these kinds of personal attacks. Please note, I have no issues if the proposal is criticized. In fact that is expected. But I do not see any point in personal attacks. I would suggest people who have made personal attacks to apologize. Anyone who comes with any kind of interesting and useful proposal is welcome. Anyone who comes up with such a proposal will receive support from me. Thank you. -- [[User:Abhijeet Safai|Abhijeet Safai]] ([[User talk:Abhijeet Safai|talk]]) 05:12, 3 October 2017 (UTC)
::{{ping|Abhinav619|Abhijeet Safai}} There is some confusion about fraud comment. It is meant for submission and not for person. After reading Hindi translation, it is quite clear that meaning was lost in translation. As per Hindi comment, it meant deceptive ways were used to submit this grant and community was not aware of proposal. Respective person has apologized indirectly by providing logic behind fraud word usage. It also happened due to lac of awareness and misconceptions about Project Grant. WMF clarified Project Grant functioning recently on this page and hopefully it will answer all queries. Fortunately nothing is hidden in Wiki-world. The community is aware of this proposal and they are actively asking questions. Notifications were sent before as well as after eligibility confirmation. Thank you for support and discouraging personal attacks -- [[User:AbhiSuryawanshi|AbhiSuryawanshi]] ([[User talk:AbhiSuryawanshi|talk]]) 22:01, 16 October 2017 (UTC)
::: I believe that Foundation Staff would automatically take a note of the signatures before they approve the project and sanction the amount. In case, there was a foul intention, time stamp could have been altered or sock-puppet accounts could have been generated. '''Why this didn't happen?'''It seems that anyone can buy an aeroplane here by fooling the community. Anyways,[[User:Dharmadhyaksha|Dharmadhyaksha]] to make things transparent the entire discussion has already been moved to the village pump some 4 days back, you were participating out there and may like to check the responses out there in Hindi as well. At last, Community review process begins on '''4th October'''.It is too my observation that some editors are correlating this project grant as a rapid grant.They are different.'''I too don't support the idea of personal remarks.''' -[[User:Abhinav619|Abhinav619]] ([[User talk:Abhinav619|talk]]) 09:15, 3 October 2017 (UTC)
::::Thank you everyone for your comments and the support. I am a student dentist at [[en:Virginia_Commonwealth_University|Virginia Commonwealth University]] and I can provide offline on ground support in [[en:Washington DC|Washington DC]] and [[en:Virginia|Virginia]]. Proposal is in a good shape now, great to see 25% external support. [[User:श्वेता कोकाटे|श्वेता कोकाटे]] ([[User talk:श्वेता कोकाटे|talk]]) 11:46, 4 October 2017 (UTC)
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== Community questions to WMF ==
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{{closed|text= {{done}} - WMF Answered following questions. Community members can ask more questions in new section.}}
Hello {{Ping|Mjohnson_(WMF)}}and team, Hindi Community is having few doubts. I have compiled all questions and translated them. There is some confusion on how Project Grant works. It would be great if you could explain them.[[User:AbhiSuryawanshi|AbhiSuryawanshi]] ([[User talk:AbhiSuryawanshi|talk]]) 04:19, 5 October 2017 (UTC)
:Receiving a Project Grant does not impact the number of Rapid Grants a community may apply for. We are currently considering a cap on the number of grants an affiliate (user group, chapter, thematic organization) or group of individuals can have at one time due to concerns about capacity issues. However, as long as there are qualified community members who want to run a project, we are happy to accept and review their Project or Rapid Grant applications. Please note that any individual or group of individuals can apply for a Project or Rapid Grant -- they do not have to be members of a user group.
:There are a lot of considerations that go into reviewing and approving a grant. Project Grants go through an intensive review process that includes the Program Officer, a grant review committee made up of Wikimedia volunteers, as well as input from additional experts both at WMF and the Wikimedia community based on the project. You can see the committee scoring [[Grants:Project/Committee/Workroom#committee-rubric|rubric]] here. You can read about the basic selection criteria for a Rapid Grant [[Grants:Project/Rapid/Learn|here]]. The endorsement section is used to get a quick pulse of how well the applicant has reached out to their community and if there is support. We appreciate any constructive criticism on the talk page since that type of feedback warrants more discussion. The endorsements section is in no way a voting mechanism and plays a relatively small role in the evaluation of the grant. There has been some confusion about this section and we are re-thinking how and if it should be used in future rounds.
: There is no limit currently on the number of grants a community can receive. However, as noted above we are thinking about a cap for the number of grants any individual or group can have running at one time due to capacity concerns.
: Project Grants are awarded in two installments -- the first half is given upon signing of the grant agreement. The second installment is given after review and approval of the mid-point report. All grantees are required to provide expense documentation for their grant.
:Please see answers above.
::Hi [[User:AbhiSuryawanshi|AbhiSuryawanshi]]. Thanks for making the effort to translate the questions. I will insert the answers above. Best, [[User:AWang (WMF)|Alex Wang (WMF)]] ([[User talk:AWang (WMF)|talk]]) 03:18, 14 October 2017 (UTC)
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Note : Following questions were posted before WMF official response and they are mostly answered above.
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:::: Hello {{Ping|Mjohnson_(WMF)}}:, I see that Grant is now qualified for Round 2. I don't know what did parameter you taken. But I want to tell you something.
#In grant, grantee wrote that this event is organized by Hindi Wikimedians. But I am the member Hindi Wikimedians. And there is no official discussion to organize this event. So how are you sure that this event is organized by Hindi Wikimedians User Group. [[User:AbhiSuryawanshi|AbhiSuryawanshi]] Can you give the link of User group Discussions to wmf Members?
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:::::::Community notifications were sent on time, it is <u>still open for community review</u>. Other community members are posting their questions, and we are answering them as soon as possible.
:::::::Feel free to express your individual views/concerns and avoid labeling your personal opinion as community decision. -- [[User:AbhiSuryawanshi|AbhiSuryawanshi]] ([[User talk:AbhiSuryawanshi|talk]]) 18:20, 16 October 2017 (UTC)
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== Pilot Projects and Impact ==
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:Our proposal targets only ''5 main organizations'' mostly based in ''one city'' and there are 1000+ organizations which promote Hindi and/or directed by the Government of India to promote Hindi.
:The Indian Constitution under Article 351 encourages all government entities to promote Hindi language in India as well as abroad. If you combine all these, then this project is having huge sustainability and scalability even without WMF funding in the future. Current proposal is having 25% sponsorship and next step could be full sponsorship.
:After this pilot project - Government might consider implementing similar program
== Comments from bluerasberry ==
Hello.
I am an experienced Wikipedia editor. I live in New York City. I collaborate with Wikimedia New York City, a regional Wikimedia chapter. I am American, but I have lived in India for over a year, and मैं थोड़ा हिंदी बोल सकता हूं, पढ़ सकता हूं और लिख सकता हूं. I have collaborated with one of this project's organizers, Abhishek, since 2012 on various wiki collaborations between India and the United States. I am a supporter of this project because I feel that there is a large Indian population in New York City as well as Hindi language initiatives at embassies, the United Nations, and similar international organizations based here.
Assets which I think that Abhishek brings to this project include the following:
#He has Indian nationality, but also he understands American culture 100%. He has lived in India with Indians, worked in India with Americans, lived in America with Americans, and worked in America with Indians. Abhishek is multicultural in a way that even most professional diplomats from India are not. He has a rare skill set of being able to talk with complete clarity to both Indian people and Americans. This is a valuable skill which Wikipedia needs.
#New York and Boston are not easy places to live. Most American people do not find these places comfortable because of the pressure, cost, and pace of life. Abhishek is a person with an urban skill set and good balance between his work and life. He has been living here as he has attended graduate school and is capable of managing any stress, problem, or project. He has the mindset of a businessperson and is a powerful negotiator.
#Abhishek knows Wikipedia, the Wikipedia community, and has a good relationship speaking for the local Wikipedia community in New York and Boston
#Abhishek has basic Western-style business and nonprofit management skills, including metrics collection, reporting and documentation. It is very unusual to find people from India who are interested in Western business style which is much different from the Indian way of doing things. It is racist, prejudiced, and unfair that the Wikimedia Foundation requires Western-style documentation and reporting for grant funds, but that is just the way things are at this time, and in fact, the world is currently just unfair in that most multinational projects with United States based staff require United States style business management even for foreign projects. We all know about this problem, and every year the WMF provides more support to make the funding process more accessible to people of more cultural backgrounds. I feel that the WMF does a better job at this than any other international organization and is doing more to address the problem, even while I see that the problem still exists. I wish that somehow it could be possible for the Wikimedia community to manage projects in the style of every culture, but for now, everything is managed in a way that is easy for people in the United States to understand, so project managers have to understand United States culture. Abhishek understands United States culture, so unusually, he is one of the Indian people who will instinctively report and document what the Wikimedia Foundation and Wikimedia community demand without having so many cultural misunderstandings. The biggest misunderstanding that I see from Indian people is the mistake of not applying for funding, when it is there and available.
Here are some general challenges I see with the Wikimedia community in India:
#There is a huge amount of in-fighting in India for Wikimedia community funding and recognition. Whereas in other countries, people in a country tend to support each other, in India the Wikipedia community tends to perceive that anyone getting funding or support or recognition is in competition with other wiki organizers and projects in India. I do not think this is the case. I think that there is an unfortunate history in foreign intervention in Wikipedia organization in India. I think that both the community of Wikipedia chapters and the Wikimedia Foundation have made mistakes in partnerships with India, and have done things by mistake which have encouraged infighting, but no one anywhere in the wiki world wants anything other than success for the Wikimedia community in India.
#There is a perception among Indian Wikipedians that funding from the Wikimedia Foundation is scarce for India. I do not think this is accurate. My view is that the global Wikimedia community and the Wikimedia Foundation feel that India is requesting less funding and support than it should. India is about 16% of world population, and because the Wikimedia community promotes equality, I think that everyone would say that 16% of Wikimedia community funds are supposed to go to India. The correct amount for India to request is crores of rupees per year, when actually for the past few years the amount has only been a few lakhs for the entire country. It is absolutely crazy that Wikipedians in India do not request more, because the money belongs to India and because everyone internationally wants more Wiki projects to happen in India. I am not sure what sorts of projects should happen, or where they should be centered, or who should lead them, but I would like to see more smaller projects everywhere in India begin to grow, and for India to develop dozens of good leaders all organizing their own projects in various subjects and regions and with different organizations.
Here is what I would like to see come out of this project with Abhishek and team:
#I want any good project to come out of India and promote Indian culture
#I want better relations between Wikipedians in India and any other countries. The United States is just one country, but I wish that Wikipedians in India could get support from every other Wikimedia chapter and collaborate with every country.
#I want Wikipedians in India to have a good relationship with international organizations in New York. In lots of ways, New York City has is an Indian place. There is a huge Indian community here. Many Indian diplomats come here. More than anywhere else in the entire Western Hemisphere, Hindi language and other Indian languages are spoken and taught in this city. Bangla is one of the official government languages of New York City, so for example, people living in New York who know Bangla but not English can still vote here and do other civic activities. I know that Abhishek's focus is Hindi which is useful, but this is a city with Indian language programs.
#I think that having a few partnerships with big organizations in New York City will make it easier for anyone else to establish partnerships with smaller organizations anywhere else.
#Abhishek has already organized some Wikipedia activities at the Indian embassies to the United States and United Nations. These relationships have a lot of value.
Here are some misconceptions that I see about this project:
#Some people are saying that Abhishek is requesting a lot of money. I disagree. By New York standards, it is not much. Anyone who makes [http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/20/realestate/what-is-middle-class-in-manhattan.html less than US $68,000 (44 lahk INR) per year is eligible to apply for charity housing]. 44 lakh rupees per year in India is a lot, and in India no one would say that people earning 44 lakh a year need charity assistance. In the area where Abhishek would be arranging training, a person cannot afford housing by themselves comfortably. Small apartments (700 square feet, 2-3 bedroom) an hour away by public train cost about 20 lahk/year to rent. I know, because there are piles of garbage all around [[:en:Bushwick, Brooklyn|where I live]]. Below that amount of money it is difficult to live here, and Abhishek is proposing to work with organizations in this area. I think that it is generous for Abhishek to even try to work in this space with such little funding. It is crazy expensive here. This project is not asking for luxury or nearby living expenses, but just sufficient funding to take public trains to the area and give typical presentations and workshops.
#Some people are saying that New York City is not an Indian place. New York City is an Indian place. It is not India, but India has great ties with this city, and lots of Indian business and projects come through here.
#There is no competition for funding. More than anything else, I want to see more people and organizations applying for Wikimedia Foundation funding to do projects for and with India. To me, I think that the biggest barrier to applying for more funding is getting appropriate grant training to India so that more people would apply. Since WMF only accepts grants written in the style of Western culture, that means that grants written in the style of Indian culture typically are not funded. For this reason, and not for limited funds, more money is not going to India.
#Some people say that all WMF funding to India needs lots of voting from Wikipedians in India. I disagree - I think that Indian people are much more critical of projects related to India than is necessary. Germany, England, France, and the United States have few people and get lots of funding with no effort. India has more people than all of those places puts together and yet the general wiki community in India gets less than 1% of the money that those places get. There is no reason for that, and no competition. I want all sorts of people to apply for all sorts of project funding for and about India.
I will not say that Abhishek is the best person, or the only person, or the last person who should get Wikipedia funding. But he is one of the few people who definitely has tried to do international wiki projects, and who has been organizing wiki projects since at least 2012, and who is capable of doing United States style bureaucracy. If there is anyone who thinks that they can do better than Abhishek, then instead of opposing his project, I wish that they would start their own and ask for funding. I wish that India had several dozen people who would ask for the funding and start things. When funding goes to America 200 rupees buys a cup of tea. When 200 rupees go to India that can buy a lot more than tea for one person, but still, without discussion or starting somewhere, even more years will pass with India getting very little money. This is a modest project for what it proposes. I want the precedent and the journalism which this project would generate. [[User:Bluerasberry|<span style="background:#cedff2;color:#11e">''' Blue Rasberry '''</span>]][[User talk:Bluerasberry|<span style="background:#cedff2;color:#11e">(talk)</span>]] 15:50, 17 October 2017 (UTC)
== Objections of Hindi Wikimedians User Group ==
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{{done}} - '''Resolved'''. Additional notes added at the end of the discussion.
{{closed|text= Feel free to ask new questions / raise objections in new section}}
{{ping|AbhiSuryawanshi|KHarold (WMF)|Mjohnson (WMF)|आर्यावर्त|स|Jayprakash12345|Suyash.dwivedi|Ashishbhatnagar72|Dharmadhyaksha|Abhinav619|Abhijeet Safai|Bluerasberry}}
Several discussions about several objections have been done at several places regarding the doubts/questions/objections raised by members of Hindi Wikimedians User Group in particular and Hindi Wikipedia community in general. Few queries were raised by me personally also. I am fairly convinced regarding my queries, which were mostly related to a doubt whether this grant will affect our other activities in India or not. Call with Kacie Harold (held in context of proposed Delhi Conference) helped in clearing many doubts and so did the comments provided by Blue Rasberry above. For clarification of other members who raised queries but could not participate in the conference call with Kacie, I would like to summarise that It was clarified that this grant will not affect any other grant we apply for conducting any programmes in india. However, there was a mention of ongoing discussions at foundation about placing a cap on number of grants that can be issued to a single usergroup. Though the same is not final yet, still we should keep this in consideration. Also, many members have objected that the community and user group were not properly consulted before finalising the proposal. Though personally I have confidence on experience and abilities of Abhishek, yet I have noticed that other members have still not clarified whether they agree with this or not. Let us consider that they are still not confident. We should understand that this usergroup is quite new and the members do not have enough experience to handle or support such a big (i.e. from their perspective- theory of relativity) grant, and the grant is so big that it has let out an emotional outburst. Even expressing support is equivalent to take moral responsibility, and members have been honest enough to declare their inability openly to take direct or indirect responsibility for the same. Mostly, their objections can be summarised as presently insisting on taking more experience from smaller events/projects before proceeding to a big event.
:Adding the above two aspects, I suggest that removing the name of Hindi Wikimedia User Group from the grant proposal will effectively resolve the issue. Let this grant proposal be in the name of Individual/group independent from the Usergroup. This will relieve the usergroup members (mostly inexperienced) from the tough situation/dilemma of taking direct or indirect responsibility for a big grant being given out of donors' money. Presently, let this be only a learning experience for usergroup members of India and Let the proposal go ahead on its own. --[[User:Anamdas|Anamdas]] ([[User talk:Anamdas|talk]]) 03:20, 19 October 2017 (UTC)
::Now Hindi Wikimedians User Group's Contract Person Anamdas declared that This grant is about to Individual. Remove the name of Hindi Wikimedians User Group from grant.--<span style="background:#444;padding:2px;font-size:12px">[[User:Jayprakash12345|<span style="color:#fff">Jayprakash</span>]]<span style="color:#FC0;letter-spacing:-2px" > >>> </span>[[User talk:Jayprakash12345|<span style="color:#fff">Talk</span>]]</span> 18:01, 19 October 2017 (UTC)
*Thank you for sharing your thoughts and suggestions. For legal reasons - this is an independent grant proposal and not dependent on any organizations based in India. I would like to summarize the bigger problem and extensive background of responsibilities - All Wikimedia affiliates, chapters, usergroups as well movement partners based in India need permission under [[wikipedia:Foreign_Contribution_(regulation)_Act,_2010|FCRA (Foreign Contribution Regulation Act, 2010]]) from Ministry of Home Affairs to receive foreign funding (i.e even from Wikimedia Foundation). [[wikipedia:Foreign_Contribution_(regulation)_Act,_2010|This FCRA permission]] is missing and usergroups/wikimedia-affiliates can not receive funds and hopefully they will receive permission soon. Apart from that, they can not spend money outside Indian borders due to constitutional limitations. We identified this problem few weeks back. Fortunately, we have received support from U.S based Wikimedia Chapters and fiscal partners.
::I personally had conversations with senior community members who were worried about this complicated concern. Responsibility sharing is a completely valid legal concern and we have resolved it by removing India-based usergroups from this grant request. We are thankful to volunteers who agreed to help us in their individual capacity. We wish to execute this project under U.S based experienced Wikimedia-affiliates and fiscal sponsors. --[[User:AbhiSuryawanshi|AbhiSuryawanshi]] ([[User talk:AbhiSuryawanshi|talk]]) 18:16, 20 October 2017 (UTC)
</div>
== Suggestion ==
{{ping|AbhiSuryawanshi}}- As the proposal has evolved through a long time spanning into years, I suggest that the endorsement section should be divided into two parts to separate opinions taken prior to finalising this grant proposal from those taken after the finalised proposal. Regards. --[[User:Anamdas|Anamdas]] ([[User talk:Anamdas|talk]]) 07:16, 21 October 2017 (UTC)
:{{ping|Anamdas}} -
*This proposal was created in IdeaLab and please have a look at '[[Grants:IdeaLab/How it works#How to participate in IdeaLab|How IdeaLabs work.]]' Each idea page has an "endorsement" section, where people can express their support for this ''idea''. [[Grants:IdeaLab/How it works#Endorsements and opposition|The endorsement section is not for votes/opposition]]; if you don't like an initial idea or finalized idea, and want to express concerns or suggest improvements, you can do so on the Discussion page.
*All members associated with this grant were notified after submitting the proposal. All community members who endorsed - were specially mentioned. Updated budget was highlighted.
*Like a Wikipedia article - this proposal evolved because of suggestions and inputs from various community members. We are following IdeaLabs protocols. We have notified everyone, they have acknowledged that they are okay with changes. You can find these in separate section above. On IdeaLab, mostly people remove their name if they are uncomfortable and we will respect if someone wants to alter their views. Fortunately almost all community members 've shown their support for final submission and we are fortunate to have diverse community support. -- [[User:AbhiSuryawanshi|AbhiSuryawanshi]] ([[User talk:AbhiSuryawanshi|talk]]) 09:46, 21 October 2017 (UTC)
== Message for WMF (grant) ==
Hello, As You can see that Now neither community nor User Group is supporting grant. This is now an individual grant. If wmf want to approve this grant. then remember some points which are:
#This is an individual grant. And not having community and user group support. So in this grant, Neither community nor User Group will not take any responsibility. Here responsibility means both Direct and morality.
#If wmf want to approve this grant. then wmf need its own monitoring system for this grant. Because community and user group is no longer with this.--<span style="background:#444;padding:2px;font-size:12px">[[User:Jayprakash12345|<span style="color:#fff">Jayprakash</span>]]<span style="color:#FC0;letter-spacing:-2px" > >>> </span>[[User talk:Jayprakash12345|<span style="color:#fff">Talk</span>]]</span> 08:44, 21 October 2017 (UTC)
{{Comment}} - Dear <span style="background:#444;padding:2px;font-size:12px">[[User:Jayprakash12345|<span style="color:#fff">Jayprakash</span>]]<span style="color:#FC0;letter-spacing:-2px" > >>> </span></span> , As I have already mentioned earlier, you are welcome to express your individual opinions/concerns, but avoid labeling your personal thoughts as community decision. Community members have already supported this proposal in their individual capacity. -- [[User:AbhiSuryawanshi|AbhiSuryawanshi]] ([[User talk:AbhiSuryawanshi|talk]]) 22:19, 21 October 2017 (UTC)
::Hello {{Ping|AbhiSuryawanshi}} This is not our individual opinion. Please do not try to show this is our individual opinion. In this grant endorsement mostly supporter is not Hindi Wikipedian. Only user raju jangid is hindi wikipedian but his endorsement is old and he support only for idea. User jayprakash, स and me are reviewer on hindi wikipedia, we voted oppose. User suyash.dwivedi is also hindi wikipedian and member of wikimedia india chapter; he withdraw his endorsement and He say this event is not related with user group. Also hindi wikipedian not supported this grant proposal but we are voting opposite. In this situation this is not belong to the hindi Wikipedia. Hindi wikipedia is not responsible for this grant and maintenance. This is your individual grant. So you and WMF is responsible for this. Thanks.-[[User:आर्यावर्त|आर्यावर्त]] ([[User talk:आर्यावर्त|talk]]) 03:17, 22 October 2017 (UTC)
:::Hello {{Ping|AbhiSuryawanshi}}, As [[User:आर्यावर्त|आर्यावर्त]] told that the Only user raju jangid is Hindi Wikipedian but his endorsement is old and he supports only for the idea. User आर्यावर्त, स and me are the reviewer on Hindi Wikipedia. We are opposing. A thing more which I want to tell that I see some pattern in Grants. You are supporting Some user's grant. And They are supporting your grant. And your most of Grant's Endorsement coming from Other Wiki Which is totally unrelated from Hindi Wiki. Like User:अभय नातू, User:श्वेता कोकाटे from Marathi Wiki. User:Abhijeet Safai from English wikipedia. And By the way Why are you not Removing Hindi Wikimedians User Group Name.--<span style="background:#444;padding:2px;font-size:12px">[[User:Jayprakash12345|<span style="color:#fff">Jayprakash</span>]]<span style="color:#FC0;letter-spacing:-2px" > >>> </span>[[User talk:Jayprakash12345|<span style="color:#fff">Talk</span>]]</span> 04:07, 22 October 2017 (UTC)
:{{Ping|आर्यावर्त}}, {{Ping|Jayprakash12345}} :
*About your community comment - Kindly provide link to community collective decision (any public ___domain link where community ''decision'' is mentioned)
*About responsibility and potential solution - We do agree responsibility is big part, specially when strict government rules are in place. Many usergroups as well as chapter in India are waiting for FCRA. We will follow rules outlined by Government. If approved - No one from Usergroup/Indian organization will be legally responsible for managing foreign funds. We will follow and respect Government of India's [[wikipedia:Foreign_Contribution_(regulation)_Act,_2010|FCRA Rule]]. <br>In fact, this proposal is about forming partnerships with Government and we will be extra careful while execution. We have received support from experienced U.S Wikimedia affiliates and Fiscal sponsors, they will help us to navigate and monitor the progress.
*About status - This grant is independent because of legalities and constitutional limitations (reasons explained above).
*About usergroup mention - Hindi Wikimedians is a general term and do not get it confused with ''Hindi Wikimedians User Group'' name. It is updated on main grant page long time back.
*Request for feedback on grant page content - We would love to hear your thoughts on how we can collaborate with government agencies to promote our Hindi Wikipedia. Do you think it is a good idea? -- [[User:AbhiSuryawanshi|AbhiSuryawanshi]] ([[User talk:AbhiSuryawanshi|talk]]) 21:22, 22 October 2017 (UTC)
::: Message for WMF (grant) is for WMF. I'm finished my concern. Now Grant is Between you and wmf. WMF approve the grant or not, I have kept my word. As i said before wmf need its own monitoring system for this grant. Because community and user group is no longer with this.--<span style="background:#444;padding:2px;font-size:12px">[[User:Jayprakash12345|<span style="color:#fff">Jayprakash</span>]]<span style="color:#FC0;letter-spacing:-2px" > >>> </span>[[User talk:Jayprakash12345|<span style="color:#fff">Talk</span>]]</span> 10:19, 24 October 2017 (UTC)
::::Could you please add proof/references to your claims and/or message? You repeatedly said it is a community decision without any basis. If it is not your personal opinion, then please share community discussion/decision link. <br>Apart from that, Kindly have a look at updated endorsement list as well as at VP. Experienced (Hindi) community members have extended their support. -- [[User:AbhiSuryawanshi|AbhiSuryawanshi]] ([[User talk:AbhiSuryawanshi|talk]]) 18:50, 24 October 2017 (UTC)
:::::{{ping|आर्यावर्त|Jayprakash12345}} I find a mention about me. Yes, I have endorsed this grant in its idea form but well aware about the subequent developments including grant. I have also participated on the village pump a bit, while I have been following the remaining discussion on the village pump. --[[User:राजू जांगिड़|Raju Jangid]] ([[User talk:राजू जांगिड़|talk]]) 05:10, 26 October 2017 (UTC)
== Questions ==
{{ping|AbhiSuryawanshi}} Thank you for submitting this proposal and for your efforts for promoting Hindi Wikipedia. I have several questions on your grant proposal:
* '''Risks'''. You state that ''no organization wants to be the first to take risks with Wikipedia''. Why do you think that the approach of starting with bigger organisations will work? What will happen if some or all organisations will not take risks with Wikipedia, do you have any alternative plans?
* '''Sustainability'''. You state that the major outcome of this proposal will be forming an initial partnership with these organisations. I agree that initial partnership is a significant asset, but how are you planning to use this after the end of the grant? How will you make sure that these partnerships continue when you will no longer be a programme manager of this programme?
* '''Volunteers'''. Your programme relies on a significant contribution from experienced volunteer Wikipedians. On one hand, you mention that this is a scarce resource (''few (less than 50) active regular editors''). On the other hand, you will need a lot of volunteers, and in different locations, including the US (Consulate of India in NY, trainings for US-based medical students), India (Raajbhasha and others) and Mauritius (World Hindi Conference 2018). How are you planning to recruit these volunteers, given that your initiative does not seem to be supported at least by a significant part of the community?
* '''Workshop spaces'''. It is not clear how you will manage workshop spaces. On one hand, your proposal includes budget for 5 spaces, what kind of workshops (students, staff, Hindi learners...) will that be and where (India, US, elsewhere)? On the other hand, one of your targets is a donation of workshop spaces by partner organisations, do you have an idea who will use these spaces?
* '''Targets'''. Why do you target only 45-50 new articles? You target recruiting about 200 people, I assume most of them will not become active Wikipedians, but why do you expect only 1 in 4 will actually edit something?
I would also like you to clarify the different types of activities you are planning and involvement of participants in them:
* Workshops in the Consulate of India in New York. What level of Hindi do these people have (I know they are learners, but are they more beginners or more advanced)? Do you want them to read Hindi Wikipedia or to edit Hindi Wikipedia?
* World Hindi Secretariat. How many staff members do they have? Do you expect them to contribute during their staff or spare time?
* World Hindi Conference in Mauritius. What do you mean under ''Hindi Wiki community members become part of volunteer organization team'', are you speaking of volunteering for the Wikipedia Booth or for the conference team? Have you reached any Hindi Wikipedians in Mauritius (there is no active affiliate in the country)?
* Central Hindi Training Institute. Do you want them to show Wikipedia during trainings just to inform people that they can read Wikipedia or do you want them to teach people to edit Wikipedia?
* Raajbhasha. What kind of participation do you expect during regional Hindi events?
* University collaborations. You mention ''regional partners and collaborators'' who will organise these workshops, how do you plan to recruit them? What kind of trainings do you plan for students? (As a reminder from what was mentioned above by Amir, trainings have very low efficiency, with just 5-10% of participants becoming Wikipedians)
Sorry for a lot of questions and thank you in advance for your answers — [[User:NickK|NickK]] ([[User talk:NickK|talk]]) 19:57, 30 October 2017 (UTC)
:{{ping|NickK}} Thank you so much for reviewing our proposal. We would like to answer your questions with your kind permission.
{{Quote|Risks: You state that no organization wants to be the first to take risks with Wikipedia. Why do you think that the approach of starting with bigger organisations will work? What will happen if some or all organisations will not take risks with Wikipedia, do you have any alternative plans?}}
:Organizations look and sound bigger but in terms of number, they have 10 to 20 people staff at max at the Embassy. We are in touch with officials from last two years.
:These organizations are ready to take the risks with minimal investment and after seeing pilot project results, host organizations might invest more to promote Hindi language through Wikimedia.
{{Quote|Sustainability: You state that the major outcome of this proposal will be forming an initial partnership with these organisations. I agree that initial partnership is a significant asset, but how are you planning to use this after the end of the grant? How will you make sure that these partnerships continue when you will no longer be a programme manager of this programme?}}
:Government is having separate budget just to promote Hindi language and anyone with proven track record/reporting can apply for funding. We are hopeful about getting additional support from government to continue this program and eventually we want to make it as self-sustaining model where local volunteers can directly work with media department and host workshops.
:As slowly and steadily, as workshops are conducted (during the initial partnership phase) some workshop participants would indulge in Wikimedia Projects like we all do. This would promote creation of Wikimedian communities and the multiplier effect would then take its route.
{{Quote|Volunteers: Your programme relies on a significant contribution from experienced volunteer Wikipedians. On one hand, you mention that this is a scarce resource (few (less than 50) active regular editors). On the other hand, you will need a lot of volunteers, and in different locations, including the US (Consulate of India in NY, trainings for US-based medical students), India (Raajbhasha and others) and Mauritius (World Hindi Conference 2018). How are you planning to recruit these volunteers, given that your initiative does not seem to be supported at least by a significant part of the community?}}
:For average 10 people staff we need one or two volunteers and we have that much support. We have also added scholarships for experienced Wikimedians. These targeted 10 people govt staff have power to make a larger impact in terms of increasing readership of Hindi Wikipedia. Small promotional pamphlet at embassy can attract more people towards Hindi Wikipedia.
:These government staff are a resource who master the art of spreading nation’s soft power, which includes nations languages. Hence, the impact of training them would be much more than a normal editor.
:Similarly for World Hindi Conference, it is one of the largest gathering to promote Hindi language and 20 member staff can give us access to 5,000+ people over a period of time. It is one time investment to form relationship which will be useful in long run.
{{Quote|Workshop spaces: It is not clear how you will manage workshop spaces. On one hand, your proposal includes budget for 5 spaces, what kind of workshops (students, staff, Hindi learners...) will that be and where (India, US, elsewhere)? On the other hand, one of your targets is a donation of workshop spaces by partner organisations, do you have an idea who will use these spaces?}}
:Workshops will be mainly for staff members of government agencies and decision makers. Other workshop spaces will be open for volunteers who can book the venue for free and start monthly meet-ups. Several such Indian student communities in United States have shown their intent. With Embassy support some student communities should materialise.
{{Quote|Targets: Why do you target only 45-50 new articles? You target recruiting about 200 people, I assume most of them will not become active Wikipedians, but why do you expect only 1 in 4 will actually edit something?}}
:It is one of the aspect. Our primary focus is increasing readership and eventually we hope at-least 25% of them will start editing Wikipedia and 10% will stick back as regular editors. This is our hypothesis and assumption.
:Most Indian language communities today are struggling new-article creation syndrome. Learning from understanding, our focus is more on improving citations, putting infoboxes to the articles, images from Commons, adding categories etc.
{{Quote|Workshops in the Consulate of India in New York: What level of Hindi do these people have (I know they are learners, but are they more beginners or more advanced)? Do you want them to read Hindi Wikipedia or to edit Hindi Wikipedia?}}
:Intermediate level Hindi users. They can use Wiktionary, Wikipedia to read and grasp vocabulary. Again, this is a readership effort. Many people are unaware that Wikipedia exists in Hindi language.
{{Quote|World Hindi Secretariat: How many staff members do they have? Do you expect them to contribute during their staff or spare time?}}
:We expect staff members to give us access to events/conferences like World Hindi Conference where volunteers can host edit-a-thons and do Wikipedia outreach. If 20 staff members want to contribute - then it is an excellent outcome. This would be an incidental achievement and icing on the cake.
{{Quote|World Hindi Conference in Mauritius: What do you mean under Hindi Wiki community members become part of volunteer organization team, are you speaking of volunteering for the Wikipedia Booth or for the conference team? Have you reached any Hindi Wikipedians in Mauritius (there is no active affiliate in the country)?}}
:Yes, we are talking about volunteering for the Wikipedia booth. We are hopeful about having an independent user-group in Mauritius to promote Hindi Wikimedia projects after this pilot project.
{{Quote|Central Hindi Training Institute: Do you want them to show Wikipedia during trainings just to inform people that they can read Wikipedia or do you want them to teach people to edit Wikipedia?}}
:In first phase, we want to add Wikipedia in their syllabus where they can learn about existence of Hindi Wikipedia. We will organize editing workshops for interested volunteers at these institutes periodically.
{{Quote|Raajbhasha: What kind of participation do you expect during regional Hindi events?}}
:Poets, Writers, Hindi lovers who can contribute to projects like Wiktionary, Wikibooks etc in addition to Hindi Wikipedia.
{{Quote|University collaborations: You mention regional partners and collaborators who will organise these workshops, how do you plan to recruit them? What kind of trainings do you plan for students? (As a reminder from what was mentioned above by Amir, trainings have very low efficiency, with just 5-10% of participants becoming Wikipedians)}}
:Anyone who believes in power of Wikimedia projects is a Wikip/median for us. We will use this opportunity to clear myths about Wikipedia at universities and get readers from these institutes. Recent WMF survey shows that overall awareness of Wikipedia is very low amongst Indians. After meeting readership/awareness goal, for interested editors - we will design special curriculum with the help of experienced Wikipedia Education Program members. Initial training will include overview of Wikimedia projects, basic editing, referencing etc.
:--[[User:AbhiSuryawanshi|AbhiSuryawanshi]] ([[User talk:AbhiSuryawanshi|talk]]) 22:26, 31 October 2017 (UTC)
::{{ping|AbhiSuryawanshi}} Thank you very much for answering these questions. My TL;DR summary is that it is a very good idea to promote reading Wikipedia among Indians, but doing this among Indians in the US is probably less impactful. Most things are clear for me, but a few comments:
::* I would think that you will have audiences with different levels of awareness. I would say that Indian students in the US probably know about Hindi Wikipedia but prefer English because they study in English and it has more and better articles. On the other hand, people in Mauritius or India may have never used Wikipedia, or may have never used Hindi Wikipedia simply because their phones are in French and English respectively. I would think that trainings for these people would have to be different, are you ready to work on it?
::* I think that Raajbhasha and other Indian institutions are good targets indeed for promoting reading Hindi Wikipedia. You likely have the biggest encyclopaedia in Hindi ever, so that's a good fit with promotion of the national language
::* The impact of people learning Hindi in the consulate on Hindi Wikipedia will be probably low. They probably know Wikipedia (well, they live in the US), and they will probably not read Hindi Wikipedia on the daily basis (it's not their first language). You might try to ask them to translate articles from English to Hindi if they have any assignments to translate texts from English to Hindi or ask them to work on Wiktionary.
::* On the other hand, I think that it would be better to focus the efforts of medical students on writing Wikipedia. They have the knowledge, they can make an impact there. I would say that what you call ''new-article creation syndrome'' is usually a positive thing for people in science.
::* I don't agree that ''Anyone who believes in power of Wikimedia projects is a Wikip/median''. If you want to train people to edit Wikipedia, you probably need people with at least moderate Wikipedia experience. It is very hard to teach people to edit Wikipedia if you don't know how to do it yourself. On the other hand, I agree that increasing the number of people who believe in Wikimedia projects would be a positive outcome
::Thank you again for your answers and for your proposal — [[User:NickK|NickK]] ([[User talk:NickK|talk]]) 23:39, 31 October 2017 (UTC)
{{ping|NickK}} Thank you so much for suggestions and in-depth review of our proposal. We would like to provide additional comments and information -
{{quote|I would think that you will have audiences with different levels of awareness. I would say that Indian students in the US probably know about Hindi Wikipedia but prefer English because they study in English and it has more and better articles. On the other hand, people in Mauritius or India may have never used Wikipedia, or may have never used Hindi Wikipedia simply because their phones are in French and English respectively. I would think that trainings for these people would have to be different, are you ready to work on it?}}
::Well, many people in India know about Wikipedia some also do know about Sister projects but not about Wikipedia being available in other languages. Only people using iOS or Android interface in their own language (other than English) recognise. Based on implied understanding, Indian students in US do not know about Wikipedia in Hindi.
::Anyways, this is just an observation, and YES training the set of different target audience needs to be different and our plans are designed accordingly. The student community in USA is well-versed with the ABCs of Internet while in India many still conceive Wikipedia to be a Social Media platform or a news-website which was also reflected in the recent WMF surveys.
::To answer this in short, “Yes- Behavioural factors will be taken under consideration”.
{{quote|I think that Raajbhasha and other Indian institutions are good targets indeed for promoting reading Hindi Wikipedia. You likely have the biggest encyclopaedia in Hindi ever, so that's a good fit with promotion of the national language}}
::Yes, it is. Working with Rajbhasha on a small pilot role in USA could help in possible association all around the globe where Indian diaspora is present. Also, working with Rajbhasha and other Indian institution could help us connect with Hindi academicians, writers, historians of the highest scholarship.
::Cherry on Cake, if eminent people also endorse Hindi Wikipedia.
{{quote|The impact of people learning Hindi in the consulate on Hindi Wikipedia will be probably low. They probably know Wikipedia (well, they live in the US), and they will probably not read Hindi Wikipedia on the daily basis (it's not their first language). You might try to ask them to translate articles from English to Hindi if they have any assignments to translate texts from English to Hindi or ask them to work on Wiktionary.}}
::One of their work profile objective is promotion of Indian language particularly Hindi. Also, they read and write lot of text pertaining to Hindi from the embassy. They do so to communicate the message to larger Indians in India.
::Indian embassy on average organises workshop and trains people almost 3000 people every-year. Our goal is to incorporate Wikipedia in this training module.
{{quote|On the other hand, I think that it would be better to focus the efforts of medical students on writing Wikipedia. They have the knowledge, they can make an impact there. I would say that what you call new-article creation syndrome is usually a positive thing for people in science}}
::Generally editors in India create one-line article and stop. They keep doing this and lot of stub articles are formed. It has been widely discussed across lot of meetups and conferences in India to resolve such issue and be cautious while training new editors.
::Hence, our first focus is on improving the existing articles. There are many one-line medical articles and we would like to focus on improving these articles and student will have freedom to create new articles on missing topics.
{{quote|I don't agree that Anyone who believes in power of Wikimedia projects is a Wikip/median. If you want to train people to edit Wikipedia, you probably need people with at least moderate Wikipedia experience. It is very hard to teach people to edit Wikipedia if you don't know how to do it yourself. On the other hand, I agree that increasing the number of people who believe in Wikimedia projects would be a positive outcome}}
::We do not mean like that. We refer to anyone who is an only an avid reader of Wikimedia projects is a Wikimedia and also a potential editor in future. On training, Volunteers from Hindi Wikipedia would be there. Completely with you on that , “at least moderate Wikipedia experience”
<br>
::Thank you once again for suggestions and review. Kindly let us know if you have any additional questions.
::--[[User:AbhiSuryawanshi|AbhiSuryawanshi]] ([[User talk:AbhiSuryawanshi|talk]]) 17:14, 4 November 2017 (UTC)
== Institutional support ==
I very much like the idea of involving immigrants and other minorities to edit their native language Wikimedia wikis and improve the respective coverage or diversity, so on the face of it a collaboration with the Indian Embassy in New York makes a lot of sense. I expected it would be easier to cooperate on such efforts with associations of immigrants, schools or other supporting non-profits, but I'm happy to be proven wrong. However, I don't understand if there is already some buy-in from the embassy and the various other institutions. If this project managed to prove a solid output and support from relevant institutions or non-profits, I could see it replicated with other minorities in the USA and EU. --[[User:Nemo_bis|Nemo]] 12:08, 31 October 2017 (UTC)
==Aggregated feedback from the committee for ''Hindi Wikipedia Outreach''==
{{Inspire/Review/Score
| A score=5.5
| B score=5.8
| C score=5.7
| D score=4.8
| comments=
* Fits with strategic direction of working towards knowledge equity by aiming to increase activity/engagement in Hindi language projects. There is potential for online impact although proposal seems more focused on building awareness of Wikimedia projects than recruiting new contributors or expanding content. There is little consideration given to sustainability of the work.
* I am not sure that establishing such broad collaborations fits Wikimedia's strategic priorities. The potential for online impact seems limited. The sustainability of the these partnerships (even if they are created successfully) is not clear.
* The project fits with Wikimedia's priority in creating long term partnerships. The potential for online impact is doubtful, since the suggested outreach methods are on the borderline of advertisement/marketing. I am not sure about the scalability of this project, unless the project leads can secure some external funding to continue their work.
* Hindi is one of world's most spoken language and the growth of wiki projects in this language is extremely important, having in mind the current quality and quantity of contents.
* The idea itself of reaching a diaspora is good. It fits our strategic priorities of reaching wider audiences and it can be replicated with other diasporas elsewhere. The major concern is impact that is difficult to measure as major goal is increasing readership, and targets are low in terms of content creation.
* I think there are too many organizations being targeted for partnership - this relationship-building can take time and I would rather see the project focus on working with 1 or 2 in order to mitigate risk. Another risk is that the activities proposed will not result in effective partnerships with sustainable outcomes (whereby partners take on organizing/leadership roles going forward); as a model based in NYC it may also not be easily adapted by other countries (and specifically in India).
* The impact is unclear because the goals of the project are very vague. In addition, some of the specified goals like "to produce journalism and program reports for Wikipedia partnerships" does not really look like goals. The measures of success are specific but too narrow for such a big project.
* A project of this kind is fairly innovative in that the project leads will promote Hindi Wikipedia among various governmental and non-governmental institutes. The measures of success are not clear - how would the meeting of several bureaucrats and presenting at conferences translate to editor retention and article creation? The two project leads also appear to be very ambitious about recruitment of participants from a variety of fronts : medicine, policy, school students etc, all in 6 months. It is also unknown if the project leads have the contacts to meet and train people in multiple locations.
* measure success are not precisely defined
* Very innovative approach as there have been little to no successful projects with diasporas before. Long-term impact is a major concern: due to limited community support it is not clear who will continue these partnerships after the end of the grant.
* It is not clear to me why there is focus on creating a video or producing journalism about Wikipedia. I would like to see a project with smaller scope (and smaller budget) that focuses just on activity in NYC where the team has support from members of Wikimedia New York City.
* The budget appears to be realistic but some expenditures are excessive: video documentary, for instance. The participants probably have necessary skills.
* The budget is high for the impact it offers. The main project lead has previously been accused of not having financial discipline on India mailing list. The participants have the necessary skills and experience, but it is unsure if they have the right contacts at the schools/med school/university/conference where they plan to execute the project.
* the budget is presented good and "clean".
* The budget is reasonable for a project in the US, and participants have necessary skills. The major concern is that there is no plan B if collaboration with these institutions fails, and even authors say this risk is significant.
* There are some endorsements - but also this grant has created a lot of tension within the Hindi Wikimedia community, with some on the talk page saying they would not support the project in any way. I find this a bit worrying for the sustainability of the work.
* The community support is low but there appears to be significant community opposition to the project.
* The target community is well defined. Community support is scarce. Several community members have stepped up against giving funds for this project on the talk page. Diversity is reasonably supported in this project.
* after many years of debate, there remained unclear support from the community that is primary in the realization of this project. Therefore, success is not guaranteed as well as the solution of the key problem; the successful realization of the given goals is questionable.
* Excellent commitment to support diversity. Mixed community reaction: some support while others do not, I still have doubts on having enough volunteers for offline events.
* I am not sure of the value or potential impact of this specific proposal but there is a good case made in the proposal for supporting Hindi Wikimedia projects. However, it makes more sense for funded work in this area to be done if not by then at least in cooperation with the Hindi user group.
* I can not recommend this project for funding. Its goals are vague. A significant part of the Hindu community opposes it. And in general such activities should not be funded by WMF as they are not directly related to the Wikimedia projects and bring only limited benefits to the Wikimedia Movement.
* I'm giving a neutral rating, because the costs outweigh the impact. The action plans and the outcomes do not seem to match so well.
* I recommend adjustment of the budget, as many items look unnecessary
* no clear measure success, no clear community support, high risk
* I would like to recommend only partial funding with a focus on two or three institutions. The idea is good, but it might be a costly failure due to an impact rather difficult to measure and concerns about sustainability of the project. I think that some parts of the project (World Hindi Conference and US medical students) are very impactful, while others might be difficult to sustain without an established organisation or group behind.
}}
{{Template:Project/Proposals/Review/Due_diligence-not_recommended}}
[[User:AbhiSuryawanshi|AbhiSuryawanshi]], please see note above about the opportunity to respond to committee comments before they finalize a decision on your proposal. Please let me know if you have any questions. Warm regards, --[[User:Mjohnson (WMF)|Marti (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Mjohnson (WMF)|talk]]) 06:52, 16 November 2017 (UTC)
===Additional information by applicant===
{{ping|Mjohnson (WMF)}}
Firstly, many thanks for reviewing our project grant proposal. We would request you to kindly convey our thanks to everyone who reviewed it. We acknowledge the detailed comments provided to us, it takes time and energy and we wholeheartedly appreciate that.
As we read through the comments, we understand there has been some communication gap, perhaps, we are not able to pen down our ideas with precision. Of course, there are some inputs which we recognize and without a doubt would change them as desired.
'''About sustainability -'''
This is just a pilot project to be done in New York. If successful, it can be rolled out all across the globe considering the external agency <Government of India> remains same and they have control over all Indian Embassy.
Hence, the Wikimedia’s plan for long term partnerships.
On Contacts - Would request for more time to produce evidence. We can connect WMF official with officials to check the authenticity as well commitment.
'''About community support -'''
The community resentment was due to incomplete information. If one reads through re-updates were provided on Hindi village pump and discussion was initiated. Post admins - few editors (also admins) have endorsed the proposal. May find it on the endorsement page.
Many members believed that this project will kill other Hindi grants and they believed that WMF provides limited funding per language. This is not the case, WMF clarified it and few members added endorsement after getting answers from WMF.
You may read Hindi Community Usergroup objection/concerns here about funding status and implications - [[Grants talk:IdeaLab/Hindi Wikipedia Outreach#Objections of Hindi Wikimedians User Group|https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants_talk:IdeaLab/Hindi_Wikipedia_Outreach#Objections_of_Hindi_Wikimedians_User_Group]]
We have addressed these concerns and Hindi user group founding members have supported/endorsed this proposal.
'''About Budget -'''
The budget has been prepared keeping in mind the legislations in New York pertaining to minimum wages. A discounted budget has now been presented below.
'''More detailed Goals :'''
We also received feedback from community members and few senior members advised us to focus on sister projects like Hindi Wikiquotes along with Hindi Wikipedia.
[[File:Hindi Wikiquote target 2018 - New York outreach.png|center|frame|536x536px|Expected outcome - Hindi Wikiquotes ]]
''<u>Additional</u>'' Wikiquotes targets -
# Number of events: '''6 Spread over a period of 3 months'''
# Number of participants: '''~10 participants assigned to each experienced team member'''
# Number of new editors: '''~10 per workshop''' ('''''new editors''''' as in those who will be able to add quality content to Wikiquotes or improve the existing articles)
# Number of articles created or improved: '''10 to 15 per Workshop'''
# Total new articles : '''50'''
# Number of repeat participants (for projects that include a series of events): '''10'''
*Current Active editors on Hindi Wikiquotes : 8
*Expected outcome - active editors after 3 months : 30
'''Adjusted Budget :'''
<span data-ve-clipboard-key="0.43525644307898426-1"> </span>
{| class="wikitable"
|+
| style="background:#4682B4;color:white" data-ve-attributes="{"style":"background:#4682B4;color:white"}" |'''Sr'''
'''No'''
| style="background:#4682B4;color:white" data-ve-attributes="{"style":"background:#4682B4;color:white"}" |'''Category'''
| style="background:#4682B4;color:white" data-ve-attributes="{"style":"background:#4682B4;color:white"}" |'''Description'''
| style="background:#4682B4;color:white" data-ve-attributes="{"style":"background:#4682B4;color:white"}" |'''Number of Units'''
| style="background:#4682B4;color:white" data-ve-attributes="{"style":"background:#4682B4;color:white"}" |'''Cost Per Unit'''
| style="background:#4682B4;color:white" data-ve-attributes="{"style":"background:#4682B4;color:white"}" |'''WMF'''
'''Grant Request'''
| style="background:#4682B4;color:white" data-ve-attributes="{"style":"background:#4682B4;color:white"}" |'''Other Sources / in-kind support'''
| style="background:#4682B4;color:white" data-ve-attributes="{"style":"background:#4682B4;color:white"}" |'''Currency'''
|-
|1
|Key Personnel
|Project Manager
|1 part-time Project Manager
|$20/hour x 20 hours/week x <s>24 weeks</s>
12 weeks
|<s>$9,600.00</s>
$4800
|
|USD
|-
|2
|Communication
|Internet, International romaing, phone calls etc
|variable
|variable
|<s>$900.00</s>
$450
|$100.00
|USD
|-
|3
|<s>Non-Capital Equipment</s>
|<s>Softwares, Apps, Laptops, printer/copiers, etc.</s>
|<s>variable</s>
|<s>variable</s>
|<s>$2,000.00</s>
|<s>$2,000.00</s>
|<s>USD</s>
|-
|4
|<s>Video Documentary</s>
|<s>Video documentation of the project</s>
|<s>Includes shooting, editing, sound design etc</s>
|<s>$20/hour x 20 hors/week x 15 weeks</s>
|<s>$4,000.00</s>
|<s>$1,000.00</s>
|<s>USD</s>
|-
|5
|Workshop Space
|Computer labs renting, insurance, internet, food, chairs, tables etc
|<s>10</s>
5
|$1,000.00
|<s>$5,000.00</s>
$2500
|<s>$5,000.00</s>
$2500
|USD
|-
|6
|Materials
|Electronic program guides and other marketing materials
|1 program guide, contact cards, and associated production costs
|variable
|$1,000.00
|$500.00
|USD
|-
|7
|Travel (To World Hindi Secreteriart, Ministry of External Affairs, Hindi International Conference Office etc)
|Meet with partner organizations
|<s>5</s>
2
|$2,000.00
|<s>$9,000.00</s>
$3,000
|$1,000.00
|USD
|-
|8
|Accomodation
|During partnership visits and workshops
|<s>30</s>
15
|$100 x <s>30</s>15
|<s>$2,000.00</s>
$1,000
|<s>$1,000.00</s>
$500
|USD
|-
|9
|<s>Workshop Costs</s>
|<s>Supports for experienced Wikipedians to workshop sites (Travel, Food, Accomodation etc)</s>
|<s>Travel will correspond directly to major partner organization at each of the target sites named within this proposal.</s>
|<s>$1000 x 6</s>
|<s>$5,000.00</s>
|<s>$1,000.00</s>
|<s>USD</s>
|-
|10
|Mail & Shipping
|Postage, etc.
|variable
|variable
|$500.00
|
|USD
|-
|11
|Other
|Unforseen costs
|variable
|
|$500.00
|
|USD
|-
|12
|Indirect Costs at 10%
|
|
|
|<s>$4,000.00</s>
$1375
|
|
|-
|
|Total
|
|
|
|$<s>44,000.00</s>
$15,125
|<s>$11,600.00</s>
$4600
|USD
|}
Once again thank you so much for reviewing this proposal and let us know if you have any additional suggestions. Looking forward to hearing from you.
--[[User:AbhiSuryawanshi|AbhiSuryawanshi]] ([[User talk:AbhiSuryawanshi|talk]]) 04:59, 22 November 2017 (UTC)
==Round 2 2017 decision==
{{Project/Proposals/Review/Not_selected}}
| |||