Wikipedia:Templates for discussion: Difference between revisions

Revision as of 16:09, 22 July 2005

Latest revision as of 16:41, 24 August 2025

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{{Short description|Page for discussing mergers and deletions of templates}}

{{Wikipedia:Templates for deletion/Header}}

{{Redirect|WP:TFD|the page used for TimedText or talk page deletion discussions|Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion|a list of templates used for discussion|Wikipedia:List of discussion templates}}

{{pp-move-indef}}

{{offer help}}

{{#ifexpr:{{#invoke:XfD old|total|title=Wikipedia:Templates for discussion}}>10|{{Admin backlog|bot=AnomieBOT}}}}

{{floating link|Closing instructions}}

<div class="tfd-header">

{{Ombox

| style = text-align: center

| type = notice

| image = none

| text = {{hlist|''[[#toc|Skip to table of contents]]''|''[[#Current discussions|Skip to current discussions]]''|''{{Purge|Purge this page}}''}}<inputbox>

type=fulltext

prefix=Wikipedia:Templates for d

break=no

width=50

placeholder=Enter &#x5b;&#x5b;Template:Example&#x5d;&#x5d; to find a discussion

searchbuttonlabel=Search archives

</inputbox>

| imageright = {{Shortcut|WP:TFD}}

}}

{{XFD backlog|right}}

{{Deletion debates}}

On this page, the deletion or merging of '''[[Help:Template|templates]]''' and '''[[Wikipedia:Lua|modules]]''', with a few [[#What not to propose for discussion here|exceptions]], is discussed.

==Listings==

{{sfd-currentTOC limit|3}}

Please put new listings under [[#{{CURRENTMONTHNAME}} {{CURRENTDAY}}|today's date]] at the '''''top of the section'''''.

==How to use this page==

When listing a template here, don't forget to add '''<nowiki>{{tfd|TemplateName}}</nowiki>''' to the template or its talk page, and to '''give notice''' of its proposed deletion at relevant talk pages, as per the '''[[/Instructions|TFD Instructions]]'''.

===<span id="NOT"></span> What ''not'' to propose for discussion here===

{{shortcut|WP:TFD#NOT}}

The majority of deletion and merger proposals concerning pages in the [[WP:Template namespace|template namespace]] and [[WP:Lua|module namespace]] should be listed on this page. However, there are a few exceptions:

; Stub templates

=== [[July 22]] ===

: Stub templates and categories should be listed at [[WP:CFD|Categories for discussion]], as these templates are merely containers for their categories, ''unless'' the stub template does not come with a category and is being nominated by itself.

; Userboxes

: Userboxes should be listed at [[WP:MFD|Miscellany for deletion]], regardless of the namespace in which they reside.

; Speedy deletion candidates

: If the template clearly satisfies a [[WP:CSD|criterion for speedy deletion]], tag it with a [[:Category:Speedy deletion templates|speedy deletion template]]. For example, if you wrote the template and request its deletion, tag it with {{t|Db-author}}. See also [[WP:T5]].

; Policy or guideline templates

: Templates that are associated with particular [[WP:PAG|Wikipedia policies or guidelines]], such as the [[:Category:Speedy deletion templates|speedy deletion templates]], cannot be listed at TfD separately. They should be discussed on the talk page of the relevant guideline.

; Template redirects

: List all redirects at [[WP:RFD|Redirects for discussion]].

; Moving and renaming a template

: Use [[Wikipedia:Requested moves|Requested moves]].

===<span class="anchor" id="REASONS"></span> Reasons to delete a template===

==== [[Template:Rikondakizoc]] ====

{{shortcut|WP:TFD#REASONS}}

Looks like a nonsense template created by an anon IP with a minor history of creating nonsense articles. --[[User:Icelight|Icelight]] 15:23, July 22, 2005 (UTC)

# The template violates some part of the [[WP:TMP|template namespace guidelines]], and can't be altered to be in compliance.

# The template is redundant to a better-designed template.

# The template is not used, either directly or by [[WP:SUBST|template substitution]] (the latter cannot be concluded from the absence of backlinks), {{Strong|and has no likelihood of {{em|being}} used}}.

# The template violates a policy such as [[WP:NPOV|Neutral point of view]] or [[WP:CIVIL|Civility]] and it can't be fixed through normal editing.

Templates should not be nominated if the issue can be fixed by normal editing. Instead, you should edit the template to fix its problems. If the template is complex and you don't know how to fix it, [[WP:WPT|WikiProject Templates]] may be able to help.

==== [[Template:WP:RM]] ====

I'm not sure I understand the point of this template. It's no less simple than the current procedure at [[WP:RM]], has an obscure name and isn't documented anywhere. [[User:Talrias|Talrias]] ([[User_talk:Talrias|t]] | [[Special:Emailuser/Talrias|e]] | [[Special:Contributions/Talrias|c]]) 11:03, 22 July 2005 (UTC)

*'''Comment'''. Hmm. [[User talk:Blu Aardvark/Sandbox|I've tested the template]], and it's fairly simple to use. It's a minor shortcut for the current procedure is all. However, it doesn't seem too widely used, unless people are using subst. It's a tough call, but I do think that some documentation somewhere is in order. --[[User:Blu Aardvark|Blu Aardvark]] | ^{[[User_talk:Blu Aardvark|(talk)]] | [[special:contributions/Blu Aardvark|(contribs)}]] 11:17, 22 July 2005 (UTC)

*'''KEEP''', it's a nice shortcut, and according to the [[Wikipedia talk:Requested moves]] page, it's supposed to be used with '''subst'''. People forget to place the TALK page onto the listings as it is at [[WP:RM]], so you can't instantly give an opinion right now. [[User:132.205.44.43|132.205.44.43]] 14:34, 22 July 2005 (UTC)

*'''[[WP:BB|Be bold]]''' and '''redirect''' it to [[template:move]]. [[User:Duncharris|Dunc]]|[[User talk:duncharris|&#9786;]] 14:36, 22 July 2005 (UTC)

**This is not equivalent to {{tl|move}}. That template is added to talk pages, this is meant to simplify entering move requests on [[WP:RM]].

*'''Keep'''. Harmless. If people use it, then okay, if not, then also okay. Since it should be used with subst: obviously it is fairly impossible to know whether or not people are using it. [[User:Dragons flight|Dragons flight]] 15:37, July 22, 2005 (UTC)

Templates for which none of these apply may be deleted by [[Wikipedia:Consensus|consensus]] here. If a template is being misused, consider clarifying its documentation to indicate the correct use, or informing those that misuse it, rather than nominating it for deletion. Initiate a discussion on the template talk page if the correct use itself is under debate.

===July 21===

====[[Template:Charleston County School of the Arts infobox]]====

Template for a single school article, should be '''subst'''ed, there is no reason for this code to be in a template rather than the article. [[User:Steinsky|Joe D]] [[User talk:Steinsky|(t)]] 16:37, 21 July 2005 (UTC)

*'''Comment'''. A single use template can be acceptable as a seperate entity if including it into the text of the page directly would interfere with editting the main page because of the size or complexity of the template's content. For example: {{tl|Timeline Geological Timescale}}, {{tl|Planet Infobox/Earth}}. This is fairly marginal on those grounds. No vote yet. [[User:Dragons flight|Dragons flight]] 20:39, July 21, 2005 (UTC)

*The size and complexity of this particular template are only a concern because the template is ''needlessly'' large and complex. It was originally written in HTML; just by running it through [http://www.uni-bonn.de/~manfear/html2wiki-tables.php#wiki this converter], I trimmed about 200 bytes off, and made it noticably more editable. Why a single school needs its own huge, fancy infobox is beyond me. '''Subst and Delete'''. <font color=#00A86B>[[User:Android79|<small>A</small>&#1080;<small>D</small>&#1103;<small>01D</small>]]</font><font color=#B87333>[[User talk:Android79|<small>TALK</small>]]</font><font color=#0047AB>[[Special:Emailuser/Android79|<small>EMAIL</small>]]</font> 23:40, July 21, 2005 (UTC)

====[[Template:Wikt]]=Listing a template===

{{shortcut|WP:TFDHOWTO|WP:TFDHOW}}

A keystroke-saving template that doesn't. "<nowiki>{{subst:wikt|whatever}}" is five more characters than "[[wikt:whatever|]]"</nowiki>, and this template shouldn't ever be used unsubsted. &mdash;[[User:Cryptic|Cryptic]] [[User talk:Cryptic|(talk)]] 16:02, 21 July 2005 (UTC)

{{Strong|To list a template for deletion or merging, follow the three-step process below.}} Do {{em|not}} include the "Template:" prefix in any of the steps.

If you have never nominated a template for deletion or used [[WP:Twinkle|Twinkle]] before, you might want to do it manually to avoid making mistakes. For more experienced editors, using Twinkle is recommended, as it automates some of these steps. (After navigating to the template you want to nominate, click its dropdown menu in the top right of the page: TW [[File:OOjs UI icon caretDown.svg|15px|link=]], and then select "XFD".)

:The redirect to {{tl|wiktionary}} (which superceded this) seems to be have been removed. May as well delete, as unused. [[User:Pcb21|Pcb21|]] [[User_talk:Pcb21|Pete]] 16:21, 21 July 2005 (UTC)

{| class="wikitable" style="clear: both;"

|- id="Step I"

! scope="row" style="background-color: #ffff99;" | Step 1

Tag the template

| style="padding: 0.5em;" | '''Paste one of the following notices to the top of the template page:'''

* '''For deletion:''' {{Tlxs|Tfd}}

* For deletion of a sidebar or infobox template: {{Tlxs|Tfd|2=type=sidebar}}

* For deletion of an inline template: {{Tlxs|Tfd|2=type=inline}} and don't add a newline after the notice.

* '''For merging:''' {{Tlxs|Tfm|{{var|{{Gray|name of other template}}}}}}

* For merging an inline template: {{Tlxs|Tfm|2=type=inline|3={{var|{{Gray|name of other template to be merged}}}}}} and don't add a newline after the notice.

* To delete a [[Help:Module|module]] or a different type of template, see {{section link|Template:Template for discussion#Display on articles}}

'''Note:'''

====[[Template:Cleanup-school]]====

* If the template is [[Wikipedia:Page protection|protected]], request that the TfD notice be added on the template's talk page using the {{Tlx|editprotected}} template, to catch the attention of [[Wikipedia:Administrators|administrators]] or [[Wikipedia:Template editors|template editors]].

This is quite a strange one. Firsty somebody added a category totally unrelated to cleanup, somebody else has given it the talk page style, and somebody else has been going around systematically adding it to pages that blatantly have no need for cleanup (this was probabaly just petty vandalism, they've been removing stub templates from stubs as well, but I'm not sure). I've been removing it from all the pages that have no need for it, but by the time I'm done there will be such a tiny number of articles in the category that it will be pointless having it, especially since we can clean them all up in a couple of minutes. [[User:Steinsky|Joe D]] [[User talk:Steinsky|(t)]] 15:40, 21 July 2005 (UTC)

* If the template is designed to be [[WP:SUBST|substituted]], add {{tag|noinclude}} around the TfD notice to prevent it from being substituted alongside the template. Example: <code><nowiki><noinclude></nowiki><nowiki>{{subst:Tfd}}</nowiki><nowiki></noinclude></nowiki></code>

*'''Keep''', serves a useful purpose. [[User:JYolkowski|JYolkowski]] // [[User talk:JYolkowski|talk]] 21:54, 21 July 2005 (UTC)

* Use an edit summary like<br /><code>Nominated for deletion/merging; see <nowiki>[[Wikipedia:Templates for discussion#</nowiki>Template:{{var|{{Gray|name of template}}}}<nowiki>]]</nowiki></code>

*'''Keep'''. This template is used to identify school-related articles which need to be improved as per [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Schools]]. [[User:Bahn Mi|Bahn Mi]] 22:53, 21 July 2005 (UTC)

* Before saving your edit, preview the page to ensure the TfD notice is displayed properly.

*'''Keep''', but belongs on the talk page. - [[User:SimonP|SimonP]] 23:06, July 21, 2005 (UTC)

*'''Keep''' Useful category [[User:Klonimus|Klonimus]] 23:19, 21 July 2005 (UTC)

*'''Keep'''. You know what sounds good right now? A tall glass of refreshing iced tea. I'm firsty. &mdash;[[user:Radman1|'''RaD Man''']] ([[User_talk:Radman1|''talk'']]) 05:58, 22 July 2005 (UTC)

*'''Redirect''' to [[template:vfd]] and list them on that page. [[User:Duncharris|Dunc]]|[[User talk:duncharris|&#9786;]] 14:38, 22 July 2005 (UTC)

<hr style="margin-top:1em; margin-bottom:1em;" />

====[[Template:AD]], [[Template:CE]], [[Template:BCE]] and [[Template:BC]]====

Redirect to the below - thus they have all the problems of ADCE and BCEBC, PLUS the fact that they're metatemplates. '''Strong delete'''. [[User:Radiant!|R]][[User_talk:Radiant!|adiant]][[meta:mergist|_<font color="orange">&gt;|&lt;</font>]] 12:43, July 21, 2005 (UTC)

; Multiple templates: If you are nominating multiple templates, choose a meaningful title for the discussion (like "[[Wikipedia:Templates for deletion/Log/2008 August 14#American films by decade|American films by decade templates]]"). Tag every template with {{Tlxs|Tfd|2=heading={{var|{{Gray|discussion title}}}}}} or {{Tlxs|Tfm|{{var|{{Gray|name of other template}}}}|3=heading={{var|{{Gray|discussion title}}}}}} instead of the versions given above, replacing <code>{{var|discussion title}}</code> with the title you chose (but still not changing the <code>PAGENAME</code> code).

*Point of information: These "metatemplates" cause no more or less problems than the "regular" templates they direct to. It is the number of pages on which a template (perhaps indirectly) appears that is the issue in terms of load. [[User:Pcb21|Pcb21|]] [[User_talk:Pcb21|Pete]] 14:53, 21 July 2005 (UTC)

; Related categories: If including template-populated tracking categories in the TfD nomination, paste {{Tlx|Catfd|{{var|{{Gray|template name}}}}}} to the top of any categories that could be deleted as a result of the TfD, replacing <code>{{var|template name}}</code> with the name of the nominated template. (If you instead nominated multiple templates, use the meaningful title you chose earlier: {{Tlx|Catfd|2=header={{var|{{Gray|title of nomination}}}}}}.)

**Not exactly. A template that includes another template (such as these four) causes twice the load of a template that does not. [[User:Radiant!|R]][[User_talk:Radiant!|adiant]][[meta:mergist|_<font color="orange">&gt;|&lt;</font>]] 12:15, July 22, 2005 (UTC)

; TemplateStyles pages: If you are nominating [[WP:TemplateStyles|TemplateStyles]] pages, these templates won't work. Instead, paste this CSS comment to the top of the page:

*'''Keep'''. See below. [[User:Pcb21|Pcb21|]] [[User_talk:Pcb21|Pete]] 14:53, 21 July 2005 (UTC)

:<code>/* This template is being discussed in accordance with Wikipedia's deletion policy. Help reach a consensus at its entry: <nowiki>https://</nowiki>en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/{{CURRENTYEAR}}_{{CURRENTMONTHNAME}}_{{CURRENTDAY}}#Template:{{var|{{Gray|template_name}}}}.css */</code>

*'''Delete''' I have no idea what your templates are trying to achieve, Pete, but, I think, it's time to let this debate rest a while. Agree with Radiant, [[User:Jguk|jguk]] 12:24, 22 July 2005 (UTC)

|- id="Step II"

==== [[Template:ADCE]] and [[Template:BCEBC]] ====

! scope="row" style="background-color: #ffcc00;" | Step 2

These templates are very bad for they insert the same information into the text ''thrice''! It doesn't matter that one doesn't see it only once in a CSS-enabled browser, becaused that's just one way of reading Wikipedia.

List the template

| style="padding: 0.75em;" | {{Clickable button|Edit today's TfD log|url={{fullurl:Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/{{CURRENTYEAR}} {{CURRENTMONTHNAME}} {{CURRENTDAY}}|action=edit&section=1}}|class=mw-ui-progressive}} '''and paste the following text to the top of the list''':

* '''For deletion:''' {{Tlxs|Tfd2|{{var|{{Gray|template name}}}}|text{{=}}{{var|{{Gray|Why you think the template should be deleted.}}}} <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>}}

If such a thing as [[Anno Domini|AD]]/[[Common Era|CE]] user preference was really needed&mdash;there's no consensus about that AFAIK and no preference in the [[Wikipedia:Manual of Style|MoS]]&mdash;it would have to be done in the Wikimedia software itself. [[User:Crissov|Christoph Päper]] 12:26, 21 July 2005 (UTC)

* '''For merging:''' {{Tlxs|Tfm2|{{var|{{Gray|template name}}}}|{{var|{{Gray|other template's name}}}}|text{{=}}{{var|{{Gray|Why you think the templates should be merged.}}}} <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>}}

*'''Delete''', instruction creep, doesn't save time, confusing, and barely in use. [[User:Radiant!|R]][[User_talk:Radiant!|adiant]][[meta:mergist|_<font color="orange">&gt;|&lt;</font>]] 12:43, July 21, 2005 (UTC)

**Instruction creep? Where is the instruction?

**Save time? Where the heck did anyone say it saves time? It is a device to implement a user preference.

**Confusing? Delete all templates?

**Barely in use? Well ok this is true, but is not a criteria for deletion.

If the template has had previous TfDs, you can add {{tlx|Oldtfdlist|{{var|{{Gray|previous TfD without square brackets}}}}|{{var|{{Gray|result of previous TfD}}}}}} in the {{para|text}} field immediately before your rationale (or alternatively at the very end, after the last <code><nowiki>}}</nowiki></code>).

*'''Keep''' - if it displayed three times then the CSS sheets have been broken. Fix them. Don't delete a solution to an issue that caused a create deal of debate just a month or two ago. Of course a software solution is preferable, but let's see your code. [[User:Pcb21|Pcb21|]] [[User_talk:Pcb21|Pete]] 14:57, 21 July 2005 (UTC)

**For the record - by instruction creep I meant that the AD/CE proposal was voted down as such, and that I believe you can't feasibly expect article writers to adopt to this relatively non-straightforward template. It would make editing those articles containing it more confusing. [[User:Radiant!|R]][[User_talk:Radiant!|adiant]][[meta:mergist|_<font color="orange">&gt;|&lt;</font>]] 12:10, July 22, 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete''' I have no idea what your templates are trying to achieve, Pete, but, I think, it's time to let this debate rest a while. Agree with Radiant, [[User:Jguk|jguk]] 12:26, 22 July 2005 (UTC)

**Is it really a good idea to be advocating the deletion of something that you haven't tried to understand? [[User:Pcb21|Pcb21|]] [[User_talk:Pcb21|Pete]] 16:09, 22 July 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete''', useless IMO, when you could type it yourself, AND with a wikilink which this does not (in this revision) allow. And if at some point in time we grow so litigious that some users want to see BC/AD and others BCE/CE, we'll make it a preferences option like the date/time rewriting. [[User:Master Thief Garrett|Garrett]]^{[[User talk:Master Thief Garrett|Talk]]} 14:55, 22 July 2005 (UTC)

**It is unreasonable for editors to be expected to remember and use CSS class names themselves, remembering a template is much easier. Sounds a bit like you also don't understand the purpose (admittedly with people breaking the CSS this is understandable). See [[User:Pcb21/ADCE_testing_page]] for a little more detail. [[User:Pcb21|Pcb21|]] [[User_talk:Pcb21|Pete]] 16:09, 22 July 2005 (UTC)

*'''Keep'''. Cleverly implements the preference option Garrett mentions. &mdash;[[User:Cryptic|Cryptic]] [[User talk:Cryptic|(talk)]] 15:20, 22 July 2005 (UTC)

Use an edit summary such as <code>Adding deletion/merger nomination of <nowiki>[[</nowiki>Template:{{var|{{Gray|template name}}}}<nowiki>]]</nowiki></code>.

==== [[Template:Wi]] ====

"We don't have an article on this topic but Wiktionary does". While it's a good idea in principle, there are three things wrong with this template (apart from the fact that it isn't widely in use).

#Since Wikipedia articles start with a capital and Wiktionary articles do not, the link will generally not work

#If we were to add a parameter to this to prevent problem 1, it would be redundant with [[Template:Wikt]].

#Any article that consists of only a link to Wiktionary should instead be 1) expanded, or 2) redirected to a similar article that explains it (e.g. redirect a verb to a noun).

*[[User:Radiant!|R]][[User_talk:Radiant!|adiant]][[meta:mergist|_<font color="orange">&gt;|&lt;</font>]] 10:22, July 21, 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete'''. Agree with the above reasons. &mdash; [[User:Ram-Man|Ram-Man]] ^{([http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=User_talk:Ram-Man&action=edit&section=new comment]) ([[User talk:Ram-Man|talk]])} 13:32, July 21, 2005 (UTC)

<hr style="margin-top:1em; margin-bottom:1em;" />

*'''Keep'''. Re 1) and 2) Wiktionary redirects from caps to non-caps as a matter of course. Re 3). These aren't articles. These are [[Wikipedia:Soft redirect]]s. The acceptability of these has been widely discussed and accepted in the past. There are many cases where they are the most natual thing to do. [[User:Pcb21|Pcb21|]] [[User_talk:Pcb21|Pete]] 14:50, 21 July 2005 (UTC)

**On top of that, I've just changed the implementation that helps when redirects are not in place. [[User:Pcb21|Pcb21|]] [[User_talk:Pcb21|Pete]] 15:01, 21 July 2005 (UTC)

**Wiktionary does ''not'' redirect from either capitalization to the other as a matter of course. Whilst redirects exist for many existing articles, that is merely a side-effect of a conversion script that was run once, just after the switch-over, to move the existing articles at the time to lowercase. [[User:Uncle G|Uncle G]] 16:50, 21 July 2005 (UTC)

***I've switched the template to point to the search anyway, so the moot is point. [[User:Pcb21|Pcb21|]] [[User_talk:Pcb21|Pete]] 17:10, 21 July 2005 (UTC)

; Multiple templates: If you are nominating multiple templates, paste the following code instead. You can add up to 50 template names (separated by vertical bar characters <code>|</code>). Use the same meaningful title that you chose in Step 1.

*'''Keep'''. <s>Point 1 is simply wrong since Wiktionary uses bots to make redirects from a capitalized to a lowercase form, unless a seperate entry exists at the capitalized form.<s> ''(see below)'' So in nearly all cases the link should work. For Point 2, {{tl|wi}} is much prettier than {{tl|wikt}} as it should be since it is intended for otherwise blank pages. For point 3, one intended usage is to leave {{tl|wi}} on pages that have been VFDed with the consensus of "move to wiktionary". This allows a useful link to exist at pages that have never been more than a dictdef. I know I have seen this used on a number of pages beyond what appears on "what links here", so I can only assume that it has been being used with subst:, or that many of those pages subsequently grew up into full wikipedia articles. Regardless, this should not be deleted. [[User:Dragons flight|Dragons flight]] 15:26, July 21, 2005 (UTC)

:* Multiple templates for deletion: {{Tlxs|Tfd2|{{var|{{Gray|template name 1}}}}|{{var|{{Gray|template name 2 ...}}}}|title{{=}}{{var|{{Gray|meaningful title}}}}|text{{=}}{{var|{{Gray|Why you think the templates should be deleted.}}}} <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>}}

**There are no 'bots performing such redirects at Wiktionary, and there never have been any. The redirects that now exist were created by a one-time process that didn't involve a 'bot. To my knowledge, there is only one 'bot running on Wiktionary at the moment, and it is performing interwiki links. (The few other 'bots that used to run were broken by the MediaWiki upgrade.) Also note that there is at least one user who systematically removes this template. [[User:Uncle G|Uncle G]] 16:50, 21 July 2005 (UTC)

:* Multiple templates for merging: {{Tlxs|Tfm2|{{var|{{Gray|template name 1}}}}|{{var|{{Gray|template name 2 ...}}}}|with{{=}}{{var|{{Gray|main template (optional)}}}}|title{{=}}{{var|{{Gray|meaningful title}}}}|text{{=}}{{var|{{Gray|Why you think the templates should be merged.}}}} <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>}}

***Who is systematically removing this template? [[User:Pcb21|Pcb21|]] [[User_talk:Pcb21|Pete]] 17:10, 21 July 2005 (UTC)

:** If there is a template you want the other templates to be merged into, you can optionally specify it using {{para|with}}.

***Thank you for clarifying that Uncle G, though I dare say I would wonder why they aren't redirecting uppercase to lowercase, and getting a bot to run on 1.5 is not that hard. Regardless, Pcb's change to directing at the search page would still work consistently, yes? [[User:Dragons flight|Dragons flight]] 20:30, July 21, 2005 (UTC)

; Related categories: If this template deletion proposal involves a category populated solely by templates, paste this code in the {{para|text}} field of the <code><nowiki>{{Tfd2}}</nowiki></code> template, before your rationale: {{Tlxs|Catfd2|{{var|{{Gray|category name}}}}}}

*'''Delete'''. I have long disliked this template as it is so often applied to titles that actually deserve articles or disambig pages. - [[User:SimonP|SimonP]] 17:24, July 21, 2005 (UTC)

|- id="Step III"

**The template is already worded to encourage users to replace it if a internal-to-Wikipedia solution is better. Educating users about the intended use is much more useful than deleting the genuine uses. [[User:Pcb21|Pcb21|]] [[User_talk:Pcb21|Pete]] 22:32, 21 July 2005 (UTC)

! scope="row" style="background-color: orange" | Step 3

*'''Keep''' but maybe reword a bit, I think this is the best solution for pages that people keep creating but will never be more than dicdefs. [[User:JYolkowski|JYolkowski]] // [[User talk:JYolkowski|talk]] 21:55, 21 July 2005 (UTC)

Notify users

| style="padding: 0.5em;" | Notify the creator of the template, the main contributors, and (if you're proposing a merger) the creator of the other template. (To find them, look in the [[Help:Page history|page history]] or [[Help:Talk page|talk page]] of the template.) To do this, paste one of the following in their user talk pages:

* '''For deletion:''' {{Tlxs|Tfd notice|{{var|{{Gray|template name}}}}}} <code><nowiki>~~~~</nowiki></code>

==== [[Template:Religious persecution]] ====

* '''For merging:''' {{Tlxs|Tfm notice|{{var|{{Gray|template name}}}}|{{var|{{Gray|other template's name}}}}}} <code><nowiki>~~~~</nowiki></code>

A collection of mainly red links. Article series only indicated by similarity in name, while historically not linked. [[User:Jfdwolff|JFW]]&nbsp;|&nbsp;[[User_talk:Jfdwolff|<small>T@lk</small>]] 08:01, 21 July 2005 (UTC)

* '''Multiple templates:''' There is no template for notifying an editor about a multiple-template nomination. In these cases, write a personal message.

* '''Keep''', because the only effective way to counter bias is to have a systematical treatment of all persecutions perpetrated by and against members of religious denominations. This template seems to be an effective means to come to such a treatment. --[[User:Germen|Germen]] 09:30, 21 July 2005 (UTC)

* '''Vote Pending results on VFD for [[Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/Religious persecution by Muslims|Religious persecution by Muslims]] and [[Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/Religious persecution by Jews|Religious persecution by Jews]]''' - All in/all out--[[User:Irishpunktom|Irishpunktom]]\^{[[User_talk:Irishpunktom|talk]]} 10:01, July 21, 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete''', not a meaningful ordering for a template. [[User:Radiant!|R]][[User_talk:Radiant!|adiant]][[meta:mergist|_<font color="orange">&gt;|&lt;</font>]] 10:22, July 21, 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete''' as Radiant. [[User:Axon|Axon]] 11:31, 21 July 2005 (UTC)

*'''Pending''' per [[User:Irishpunktom|Irishpunktom]], but '''keep if either of those articles is kept'''. Note that existing "Persecution of ..." articles could be linked to instead of the non-existant "Religous persecution of ..." articles planned for this abortive series. OTOH, I made this into a navigation bar, and it was not all that much work. Hence my support of deleting if it becomes unpopulated by active articles. --[[User:Ems57fcva|EMS]] | [[User_talk:ems57fcva|Talk]] 15:33, 21 July 2005 (UTC)

** '''Comment''' I have updated the template to activate the "Religous persecution of ..." links. I leave it up to others to decide if that it enough to justify preserving the template. --[[User:Ems57fcva|EMS]] | [[User_talk:ems57fcva|Talk]] 16:59, 21 July 2005 (UTC)

*'''Categorize''' with the others [[User:Pmanderson|Septentrionalis]] 15:51, 21 July 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete'''. Historically unlinked phenomena. [[User:Jayjg|Jayjg ]]^{<font color="DarkGreen">[[User_talk:Jayjg|(talk)]]</font>} 19:24, 21 July 2005 (UTC)

**'''Comment''' I find the idea that religous persecution instances are historically unliked to be an odd view. Often the same event can be listed under a "Perseuction by ..." and a "Persuction of ..." article. There therefore is historical linkage as well as this set of articles (both real and proposed) being intended to form a series.<br>I find this template useful as both a navigation bar and a way for people to see the proposed breadth of the series. I feel that it should be retained if any part of the "Religous persecution of ..." series is. (Note that I have already voted above.) --[[User:Ems57fcva|EMS]] | [[User_talk:ems57fcva|Talk]] 20:41, 21 July 2005 (UTC)

*'''Keep''' Useful template. Agree with Germen. [[User:Klonimus|Klonimus]] 23:33, 21 July 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete'''. Didn't we have one of these before, and it already got deleted once? --[[User:Michael Snow|Michael Snow]] 06:15, 22 July 2005 (UTC)

**Indeed we did. See [[Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/Template:Persecution]]. Reasons still apply, I would say. If the articles survive Votes for deletion, use categories, not a template. --[[User:Michael Snow|Michael Snow]] 06:22, 22 July 2005 (UTC)

If you see any [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Directory|WikiProjects]] banners ([[Template:WikiProject banner shell/testcases#Template|they look like this]]) at the top of the template's talk page, you can let them know about the discussion. Most WikiProjects are subscribed to [[Wikipedia:Article alerts|Article alerts]], which means they are automatically notified. If you think they have not been notified, you can paste the same message in the projects' talk pages, or use [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Compact|Deletion sorting lists]]. Note that Twinkle does not notify WikiProjects.

==== [[Template:Harry Potter spoiler]]====

'''Delete''': This is obselete, even before it was created. We have happily used {{tl|spoiler}} for ''Episode III'' and various other big-name books/movies without issue, I don't see why this is any more useful than {{tl|spoiler}} is. [[User:Master Thief Garrett|Garrett]]^{[[User talk:Master Thief Garrett|Talk]]} 03:21, 21 July 2005 (UTC)

*maybe leave it for a couple of weeks, then '''delete''' it and revert to <nowiki>{{Spoiler}}</nowiki>. I think there are many people who will be very annoyed if they find out and the <nowiki>{{Spoiler}}</nowiki> warning may be not noticible enough for newbies. As for Episode III, I think '''''everyone''''' knew what was gonna happen in that. [[User:Supersaiyanplough|Supersaiyanplough]]|[[User talk:Supersaiyanplough|^(talk)]] 03:30, 21 July 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete'''. I love the Harry Potter series, but the attitude of the people who write about it here is beginning to annoy. The template is needlessly specific. [[User:Superm401|Superm401]] | [[User_talk:Superm401|Talk]] 03:32, July 21, 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete''' and subst. - [[User:Ta bu shi da yu|Ta bu shi da yu]] 03:42, 21 July 2005 (UTC)

*'''delete''' a tad too specific. [[User:Sasquatch|Sasquatch{{unicode|&#08242;}}]]{{unicode|&#08596;}}[[User_talk:Sasquatch|Talk]]{{unicode|&#08596;}}[[Special:Contributions/Sasquatch|Contributions]] 03:46, July 21, 2005 (UTC)

*'''Keep''' for at least another week or so. This formatting popped up independently on multiple pages, and was reverted after being converted to the normal spoiler template. I created it to ease transition to <nowiki>{{spoiler}}</nowiki> once things slow down on these articles, as clearly explained on its [[Template talk:Harry Potter spoiler|talk page]]. Yes, it's overspecific, and large, and annoying, and redundant, but it's a much better solution than having this code on those pages instead of a template. Absolutely should ''not'' be substed in its current form, as TBSDY suggests - when deleted, it should be replaced with <nowiki>{{spoiler}}</nowiki>. &mdash;[[User:Cryptic|Cryptic]] [[User talk:Cryptic|(talk)]] 04:49, 21 July 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete''' Redundant. --[[User:JonMoore|{{User:JonMoore/sig}}]] 05:11, 21 July 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete''', redundant. [[User:Radiant!|R]][[User_talk:Radiant!|adiant]][[meta:mergist|_<font color="orange">&gt;|&lt;</font>]] 08:37, July 21, 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete'''. &mdash; [[User:Ram-Man|Ram-Man]] ^{([http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=User_talk:Ram-Man&action=edit&section=new comment]) ([[User talk:Ram-Man|talk]])} 13:34, July 21, 2005 (UTC)

*'''Keep''' until [[1 August]], per Cryptic. Then '''Delete'''. If we create a [[Template: New publication spoiler]], less visible than this one, but more visible than [[Template:spoiler]], we can avoid this discussion next year. [[User:Pmanderson|Septentrionalis]] 15:49, 21 July 2005 (UTC)

*'''Keep'''. I guess it could be made a bit smaller, but it is very helpful. I had just finished HBP and was looking at the [[Wizarding World]] page. It spoils who dies right there! I thought that the regular spoiler template meant it only had spoilers for the first five books.Keep for at least three more weeks. It takes some people a long time to read the books. It can get smaller over that time.[[User:Phoenix Song|Phoenix Song]] 16:15, 21 July 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete''' and replace all instances of this template with &#123;{[[Template:spoiler|spoiler]]}}. I don't think HBP-specific spoilers require their own templates. --[[User:Deathphoenix|Death]][[User_talk:Deathphoenix|'''phoenix''']] 16:26, 21 July 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete'''. We have our lovely [[:Template:Spoiler]]! --[[User:Imaglang|Neigel von Teighen]] 17:04, 21 July 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete''' and use {{tl|spoiler-about}} to make it clar that the spoilers are for the new work, where this might not be obvious. [[User:DESiegel|DES]] 18:51, 21 July 2005 (UTC)

*'''Keep''': Book 6 was spoiled for me when carlessly reading an article that just had a regular spoiler warning. I was not expecting, that the information was updated so soon and that such spoilers would be at places where I did not expect them (of course I would not have read sections that were specific to book 6). Leave it for one or two weeks, that should be enough to warn other careless readers like me. -- 19:40, 21 July 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete''' - waaaay too specific. We do not need a template ''just'' for spoilers in one book series. Find a better way of doing it. -- [[User:Cyrius|Cyrius]]|[[User talk:Cyrius|&#9998;]] 19:41, 21 July 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete''' - The regular spoiler warning is sufficient. Anyone that claims otherwise is, in my opinion, such a careless reader then they would probably have missed half the plot reading the book anyway. --[[User:Colin Angus Mackay|Colin Angus Mackay]] 22:33, 21 July 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete''' - regular spoiler warning sufficient. [[User:Ingoolemo|<font color=blue>Ingoolemo</font>]]&nbsp;[[User_talk:Ingoolemo|<font color=blue>^talk</font>]] 02:18, 2005 July 22 (UTC)

*'''Keep'''. The generic spoiler warning is actually insufficient in my interpretation. [[User:Zen-master|zen master]][[User talk:Zen-master| T]] 07:55, 22 July 2005 (UTC)

*I don't mind either way, as long as you remove all the old spoiler warnings for the previous books. 14:49, 22 July 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete''' - Do we really want or need 5,000 different spoiler templates? If we keep this one, why not create a new one for every article? Makes no sense and defeats the entire purpose of a template. [[User:Gblaz|Gblaz]] 15:51, July 22, 2005 (UTC)

=== July 20 ===

====[[Template:ImportantLabeledEquation]]====

A dotted box style for displaying equations. The mathematicians over here seem to think that an equation is better off without any box around it. See [[Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Mathematics#Dotted_framebox_around_formulas]] (that was discussed in other places too). [[User:Oleg Alexandrov|Oleg Alexandrov]] 18:41, 20 July 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete''' [[User:Oleg Alexandrov|Oleg Alexandrov]] 18:41, 20 July 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete''' because of aesthetic reasons. --[[User:R.Koot|R.Koot]] 18:50, 20 July 2005 (UTC)

=== July 19 ===

====[[:Template:Sopranos]]====

A very long list of Sopranos character articles, redundant with [[:Category:The Sopranos characters]]. This template is rather large, obtrusive, and unnecessary. [[User:Postdlf|Postdlf]] 19:29, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete''', category is far more useful. - [[User:SimonP|SimonP]] 22:40, July 19, 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete''', agree with Postdlf / SimonP. -- [[User:Lochaber|Lochaber]] 13:24, 20 July 2005 (UTC)

====[[Template:Europe]]====

Redundant with [[:Category:European countries]]. The same appearance objections as with [[Template:UNmembers]] below. The chief result of this template is an interminable [[Template_talk:Europe#Poll:_Which_items_should_be_listed.3F|poll]] over the question of whether [[Turkey]], [[Armenia]], and [[Kazakhstan]] are European. (Kazakhstan may '''never''' be settled.) [[:m:Polls are evil]], but this is more evil than most; the various nationalists have been roused to block voting. Let us be done with it. [[User:Pmanderson|Septentrionalis]] 17:20, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

Note: This is a test vote. The other continents can be discussed if this vote is '''delete''' and the grounds are not specifically European. [[User:Pmanderson|Septentrionalis]]

*'''Delete''' [I like [[Template:Canada ties]]; but its effect would be to make [[Template:North America]] ''doubly'' redundant, except perhaps as a merge with [[North America]] (which I would not oppose). 19:39, 19 July 2005 (UTC)] [[User:Pmanderson|Septentrionalis]] 17:20, 19 July 2005 (UTC)<br>

*'''Keep''' [[User:Alinor|Alinor]] 17:38, 19 July 2005 (UTC) correction of the introduction - the Turkey question is closed since a long time ago. 10 other states/issues are also closed - conclusion reached. There remain only 3 to close. Pools may be unwiki, but the template is usefull on its own and it should not be deleted becouse of a minor issue with 2 remaining unsettled states (and the Flag). The place for the pool/discussion is also not on the template-page (preferable places: pages for each disputable country, and also [[Talk:Transcontinental nation|here]]), but is already there for a long time. A ''category'' or a ''list'' (as in the main Europe article) is not the same as a ''template'' - the template is visualizing in a much more compact way the whole information and it has other advantages. To summurize: 'keep' the template; eventualy 'move' the discussion and/or the pool; eventualy 'cancel' the pool.

*'''Delete''' this is exactly what categories and lists are for. Note that the debate over which countries are part of eutope could just as well take place over a category or a list -- this template would be a bad idea if there were no debate at all -- a similer template for ''States of the US'' should likewise be deleted. [[User:DESiegel|DES]] 18:25, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

**Comment: And the debate might not be taking place. [[Kazakhstan]] is in [[:Category:European countries]] '''and''' [[:Category:Asian countries]]. If the argument did occur, it would be part of writing the article, as it ought to be. [[User:Pmanderson|Septentrionalis]] 18:42, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

*'''Comment''' there is a more general discussion of a complete overhaul of the country footers underway at [[Talk:United Kingdom]], [[Talk:Canada]], and [[Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Countries]]. This discussion should be finished before any templates are deleted. - [[User:SimonP|SimonP]] 18:46, July 19, 2005 (UTC)

*'''Keep''' Perfectly OK template needed in some places. [[User:Jtdirl|<font color="#006666">'''Fear'''<font color="#FF6600">'''''ÉIREANN''''']][[Image:Ireland coa.png|20px]]\^{<font color=blue>[[user_talk:Jtdirl|(caint)}<font color=black>]] 22:45, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete''' [[iff]] other contintent-templates are also deleted. If this nomination has been motivated by the poll precedings, then I might like to point out that the very same problems may be encountered by a category - which to include and exclude. -- [[User:Joolz|Joolz]] 02:17, 20 July 2005 (UTC)

*'''Keep''' because concept is reasonable whether it lists all members or only identifies membership. Whether implemented as a template or category, membership indicator is OK. And I won't vote to delete as a "test" of some sort when that should be resolved through other process than deletion through a backwater vote. ([[User:SEWilco|SEWilco]] 05:19, 20 July 2005 (UTC))

** '''Comment''': There is no notice on the template, it was removed. ([[User:SEWilco|SEWilco]] 05:19, 20 July 2005 (UTC))

*'''Delete''', one template for this purpose is useful but two is not. No forks please. [[User:Radiant!|R]][[User_talk:Radiant!|adiant]][[meta:mergist|_<font color="orange">&gt;|&lt;</font>]] 09:48, July 20, 2005 (UTC)

** I don't understand your comment, where is the second template? -- [[User:Joolz|Joolz]] 12:33, 20 July 2005 (UTC)

***Oops sorry, I misread the heading. Nevertheless, as this has no meaningful ordering other than alphabetical, I hold that the category is more appropriate. [[User:Radiant!|R]][[User_talk:Radiant!|adiant]][[meta:mergist|_<font color="orange">&gt;|&lt;</font>]] 14:32, July 20, 2005 (UTC)

**** The only problem with the category is it can't explain that some countries are not geographically in Europe, nor that some are only partly in Europe, which the template can do. -- [[User:Joolz|Joolz]] 18:45, 20 July 2005 (UTC)

*****But categories '''are''' doing this. [[Turkey]] is in a subcategory of both [[:Category:European countries]] and [[:Category:Asian countries]]; '''and''' has [[:Category:bicontinental countries]] as a warning marker. If this, with the article text, is not specific enough, notes can be added to the category pages, more legibly than to the Template. [[User:Pmanderson|Septentrionalis]] 15:52, 22 July 2005 (UTC)

*'''Keep''', type-boxes are useful. [[User:Jdforrester|James F.]] [[User_talk:Jdforrester|(talk)]] 02:28, 21 July 2005 (UTC)

*Strong '''keep'''. Useful. [[User:Nightstallion|Nightstallion]] 07:13, 21 July 2005 (UTC)

*'''Replace''' all similar templates with a single {{tl|Countries}} template (more compact than the present one of that name) listing all countries worldwide. [[User:Susvolans|Susvolans]] [[User talk:Susvolans|(pigs can fly)]] 07:23, 21 July 2005 (UTC)

*'''Keep'''. The template is useful --[[User:*drew|*drew]] 14:01, 21 July 2005 (UTC)

*'''Keep'''. Templates and categories are not at war. ''"There can be only one!"'' is not a truism. [[User:Unfocused|<FONT COLOR="#006699">Un</FONT>]][[User talk:Unfocused|focused]] 22:45, 21 July 2005 (UTC)

====[[Template:Calculus2]]====

Old version of [[Template:Calculus]]. I doubt it is worth keeping it. If somebody would really like to see how the calculus template looks like, one could see the page history. [[User:Oleg Alexandrov|Oleg Alexandrov]] 13:46, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete'''. [[User:Oleg Alexandrov|Oleg Alexandrov]] 13:46, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete'''. Obsolete. --[[User:R.Koot|R.Koot]] 01:44, 21 July 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete'''. [[User:Jayjg|Jayjg ]]^{<font color="DarkGreen">[[User_talk:Jayjg|(talk)]]</font>} 20:14, 21 July 2005 (UTC)

====[[Template:Atten]] and [[Template:Atten lite]]====

'''Delete''' created by an anon, and unused; also broken. Look like a suggestion for something to be used over at [[Wikipedia:Pages needing attention]], but none of those pages have a table that needs this. I left a message on the anon's talk page just in case.-[[User:Splash|Splash]] 00:28, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

:Additional note: there are some uses of {{tl|arttalk}} which give a visually similar effect, and so the nominees are also redundant with this. -[[User:Splash|Splash]] 01:13, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

*Redirect the lot of them to [[Template:Attention]]. Or delete for all I care. [[User:Radiant!|R]][[User_talk:Radiant!|adiant]][[meta:mergist|_<font color="orange">&gt;|&lt;</font>]] 09:22, July 19, 2005 (UTC)

==== [[Template:UNmembers]]====

'''Delete''': Something that is much better served as a category. Only used on two articles. [[User:Evil Monkey|Evil Monkey]]&#8756;[[User talk:Evil Monkey|Hello]] 04:53, July 19, 2005 (UTC)

* The information in there is useful, but just looking at the behemoth is scary. <s>'''Categorify''' or '''listify'''</s>, then '''delete'''. -- [[User:Titoxd|Titoxd]] 05:35, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

**We already have [[United Nations member states]]. [[User:Evil Monkey|Evil Monkey]]&#8756;[[User talk:Evil Monkey|Hello]] 09:55, July 19, 2005 (UTC)

***If that's done already, then '''delete'''. -- [[User:Titoxd|Titoxd]] 23:01, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete''': Huge template that really doesn't add anything to either of the articles it's found in. Since, with the notable exception of the [[Holy See]], ''all'' UN-recognized nations are now full UN members, this template is redundant. [[User:TShilo12|Tomer]] ^{<font size=-1 color=129DBC>[[User talk:TShilo12|TALK]]</font>} 05:46, July 19, 2005 (UTC)

*'''Categorify''' and '''Delete''': I think there may be an implementation problem (over 200 member states) but we can have subcats for the purpose. [[User:Pmanderson|Septentrionalis]] 17:04, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete''' - nearly all countries are UN members, it's almost like having a [[Template:Countries]]. I would suggest that it would be better if a template listed countries which aren't UN members, which is considerably fewer. -- [[User:Joolz|Joolz]] 02:19, 20 July 2005 (UTC)

* Comment: What's the point in having a category which will include 99.9% of countries? The only places without UN membership are [[Vatican City]] and... err, possibly [[Somaliland]]/[[Somalia]], I can't think of anywhere else ofhand (maybe [[Western Sahara]] too) -- [[User:Joolz|Joolz]] 18:50, 20 July 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete'''. [[User:Jayjg|Jayjg ]]^{<font color="DarkGreen">[[User_talk:Jayjg|(talk)]]</font>} 20:13, 21 July 2005 (UTC)

=== July 18 ===

====[[Template:USNavyAwards]]====

Previously only linked to one article. Really no point to keeping it. Actual table has been copied to [[Military awards of the United States Department of the Navy|that article]]. [[User:K1Bond007|K1Bond007]] 22:46, July 18, 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete''' author made good use of the table on article, no furhter need for template. <font color=#FF0033>[[Special:Contributions/Who|&infin;]]</font>[[User:Who|Who]][[User talk:Who|<font color=#00Ff00>?</font><font color=#FF00FF>&iquest;</font><font color=#0033FF>?</font>]] 23:12, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

====[[Template:MathematicsCOTW]]====

This template is obsolete. It is replaced by [[Template:Wikiportal:Mathematics/Opentask]]. --[[User:R.Koot|R.Koot]] 18:36, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

:Speedy delete. Simple housekeeping rather than a decision on content or display. [[User:Pcb21|Pcb21|]] [[User_talk:Pcb21|Pete]] 21:18, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

:'''Delete''', obsolete. -- [[User:Titoxd|Titoxd]] 05:37, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

:'''Merge''' with [[Template:Wikiportal:Mathematics/Opentask]]. BTW, this template is really ugly, I suggest something like [[Template:GCOTW]]. See below: -[[User:Hyad|Hyad]] 08:37, July 19, 2005 (UTC)

{| align=center class="current" style="background: #ADD8E6; border: 1px solid #000000; padding: .5em; margin-bottom: 3px; font-size: 90%; width: auto;"

|[[Image:Gamepad Icon.png|30px|Gaming collaboration of the week]]

|This article is a candidate for '''[[Wikipedia:Gaming Collaboration of the week|Gaming Collaboration of the week]]'''. Please visit that page to support or comment on the nomination.

|}

:Have you looked at the new template? It is already merged :). And it's meant to be put on the WikiPortal, there's a different template for articles (which looks like the one above). --[[User:R.Koot|R.Koot]] 11:59, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete''', obsolete. [[User:Radiant!|R]][[User_talk:Radiant!|adiant]][[meta:mergist|_<font color="orange">&gt;|&lt;</font>]] 11:08, July 19, 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete'''. I find the new [[Template:Wikiportal:Mathematics/Opentask]] ugly like hell though. I prefer something as simple as

<center>

<div style="width: 100%; background: #efe; border: 1px solid #AAA; margin: 0 auto .5em; padding: 2px 10px; text-align: left; font-size: 100%">

<strong style="padding-right:.2em">This is the current [[Wikipedia:Mathematics Collaboration of the Week|mathematics collaboration of the week]]!</strong> You are encouraged to edit this article, so that it may meet a higher standard of quality.</div>

</center>

[[User:Oleg Alexandrov|Oleg Alexandrov]] 12:02, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete'''. [[User:Jayjg|Jayjg ]]^{<font color="DarkGreen">[[User_talk:Jayjg|(talk)]]</font>} 20:15, 21 July 2005 (UTC)

====[[Template:Israel]] and [[Template:Israel infobox]]====

[[Template:Infobox Country]] is used in the [[Israel]] article instead. [[User:500LL|500LL]] 15:08, July 18, 2005 (UTC)

*'''Speedy delete''' - there are a lot of these one-use country infoboxes, and we shouldn't delay deleting them as they migrate to [[Template:Infobox Country]]. -- [[User:Netoholic|Netoholic]] [[User talk:Netoholic|@]] 18:57, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete''' per nomination and netoholic. [[User:TShilo12|Tomer]] ^{<font size=-1 color=129DBC>[[User talk:TShilo12|TALK]]</font>} 05:49, July 19, 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete'''. [[User:Jayjg|Jayjg ]]^{<font color="DarkGreen">[[User_talk:Jayjg|(talk)]]</font>} 20:22, 21 July 2005 (UTC)

====[[Template:Listdev]] <small>(and [[:Category:Incomplete lists]])</small>====

In the discussion at [[Wikipedia:Template locations]], several people expressed the opinion that there may not be a point to this template, as just about any list in Wikipedia can be expanded and developed. Therefore, I'm listing it here. [[User:Radiant!|R]][[User_talk:Radiant!|adiant]][[meta:mergist|_<font color="orange">&gt;|&lt;</font>]] 14:42, July 18, 2005 (UTC)

''P.S. according to [[Template_talk:Listdev]], this template was up for deletion previously in March 2005. <small>[[User:Ceyockey]]</small>''

*'''Keep''' Useful note to readers. In addition, as Courtland suggested, a Comprehensive List template and category should be added.

*'''Mild Keep''' There are lists of clearly enumerable items which ought to be complete. A hypothetical "List of all US Presidents" for example, should be complete, and if it isn't, a tag like this should warn the reader not to rely on it and encourage any editor to complete it. On the other hand [[List of legal terms]] or a hypothetical "List of Historical Novels" by their nature can't be expected to be complete, and certianly can't be proved compelete at any specific point. This tag should be reserved for soerts of list that a reader would naturally expect to be complete an even definitave, and warn when they fail of this standard. It should not be used on open-ended lists. With this limitation (which should be documeted on a proper talk page) I think the tempalte is of value I assume the category is simply of pages that havbe been tagged with the template. If so, the same remarks would apply. [[User:DESiegel|DES]] 14:51, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

*'''Keep''' for the same reasons as above. While it shouldn't be used for open-ended lists, it's a useful tool to let people know that a (generally) static list is not complete, such as the list of [[SkyTeam Destinations]]. [[User:Dbinder|Dbinder]] 14:56, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

*'''Keep''' Many lists on Wikipedia are enumerable, but incomplete. [[User:Kaldari|Kaldari]] 17:12, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

*'''keep'''--[[User:Striver|Striver]] 03:47, 20 July 2005 (UTC)

*'''Note''' I have added a usage note to the template's talk page, and i hav started to remove it from open-ended lists, which seem to be the majority of the places it has been used, of which there are over 2200. [[User:DESiegel|DES]] 18:11, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

* '''Keep'''. An "incomplete list" should be regarded as a list equivalent of a stub. &ndash;&nbsp;[[User:Kpalion|Kpalion]] [[User talk:Kpalion|(talk)]] 18:44, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

* '''keep''' I remember seeing another similar template up for deleteion vote about a month or two ago and the result was to use this one and delete the other. [[User:Slambo|slambo]] 18:53, July 18, 2005 (UTC) -- I just remembered, the previous vote was over [[Template:Expand list]] which is now a redirect to this template. [[User:Slambo|slambo]] 18:58, July 18, 2005 (UTC)

*'''Keep'''. This is a very useful template. --[[User:JonMoore|{{User:JonMoore/sig}}]] 19:00, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

*'''Keep'''. Is useful when the reader might otherwise be justified in assuming that the list is complete when in reality it is not. Lists which are only of "notable" entries would not necessarily need the template, but it really comes in handy otherwise. --[[User:BaronLarf|Baron]][[User talk:BaronLarf|Larf]] 21:01, July 18, 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete''' Currently written as if it should be used on article pages. But this sort of "please expand" information is clearly for editors, so should go on talk page. Second choice: Reword and limit to talk pages only. [[User:Pcb21|Pcb21|]] [[User_talk:Pcb21|Pete]] 21:25, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

*'''Keep'''. By the way, there is the ''Dynamic list'' template (see [[:Category:Dynamic lists]]) for the "incomplete and will never be complete lists". &mdash; [[User:Fingers-of-Pyrex|Fingers-of-Pyrex]] 21:42, July 18, 2005 (UTC)

*'''Keep'''. Regardless of whether a list will ever be complete, users can still be informed that the list is incomplete and that they can help expand it. {{User:Brian0918/sig}} 23:02, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

*'''Keep'''.Useful for works in progress. [[User:Walkerma|Walkerma]] 23:06, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

*'''Keep''' - useful template. [[User:Guettarda|Guettarda]] 23:20, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

*'''Keep'''.The lack of completeness in a list is an important piece of information with respect to interpretation of the context and validity of the list. However, considering the comments about most lists being incomplete (those which are not in the dynamic-class, that is), maybe we should consider making a replacement template ... {{tl|completelist}} => "to the best of our knowledge, this list is exhaustive and complete" ... which would be used on far fewer lists and would have a higher semantic value. Just a thought. Until such a debate has been raised and born fruit, let's keep this template or one of its cousins ({{tl|expand list}}, for instance). Also, I think this template should appear in the article space and not in the discussion space (referring to some comments in an earlier ''delete'' vote above). [[User:Ceyockey|Courtland]] 23:25, July 18, 2005 (UTC)

*'''Keep''' This template is in use by many thousands of articles, justifying it's usefulness. It also welcomes new visitors to add new information to the article. --[[User:Alterego|Alterego]] 01:54, July 19, 2005 (UTC)

* '''Keep''' Very useful for many articles. --[[User:Arbiteroftruth|Arbiteroftruth]] 03:54, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

* '''Keep''' Useful for pointing out lists that are woefully incomplete and encouraging edits. --[[User:Kzollman|Kzollman]] 04:43, July 19, 2005 (UTC)

*'''Keep''' I do admit though that almost every list of whatever has the potential for needing further edits.

*'''Keep'''. extremely useful. Not sure who made the last edit, but it's not strictly true - many lists have a finite number of possible members. A list of 20th century heads of state may be incomplete on Wikipedia (if such a list exists), but it is a finite list. [[User:Grutness|Grutness]]...<font color=green><small>''[[User_talk:Grutness|wha?''</small></font>]] 05:30, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

*'''Keep'''. No need to even justify. (rolling eyes). [[User:Nricardo|Nelson Ricardo]] 08:02, July 19, 2005 (UTC)

*'''Keep'''. Very useful. [[User:Jni|jni]] 08:04, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

*'''Keep'''. Clearly. [[User:Dmn|Dmn]] '''/''' [[User talk:Dmn|&#1332;&#1396;&#1398;]] 10:31, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

*'''Keep'''. As Brian0918 mentioned, while some lists may never be truly completed, there is a difference between "almost complete" and "woefully incomplete"; despite the wording, I think the template serves to stave off the latter pretty well.--[[User:Mitsukai|Mitsukai]] 13:16, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

*'''Keep'''. This is useful for lists whose members can be determined with a reasonable amount of effort. Obviously it doesn't apply for open-ended lists. [[User:Superm401|Superm401]] | [[User_talk:Superm401|Talk]] 19:58, July 19, 2005 (UTC)

*'''Keep'''. Very useful. Some lists can be completed. --[[User:PSzalapski|Locarno]] 21:39, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

*'''Keep'''. Useful for lists that have a finite member count, but where the original author e.g. did not have the knowledge to supply all members. Both useful for readers (as a warning) and editors (as an encouragement). Perhaps even useful for some not-so finite lists. For instance a hypothetical list ''Norse mythical beings'' featuring only "Verðandi" could perhaps use this template. [[User:Gerbrant|Shinobu]] 22:53, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

*'''Keep'''. [[User:Sarge Baldy|Sarge Baldy]] 23:32, July 19, 2005 (UTC)

*'''Kee[''' ovbiously. [[User:Duncharris|Dunc]]|[[User talk:duncharris|&#9786;]] 23:44, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

*'''Keep''' - I think it does serve a useful purpose. --[[User:Shawn K. Quinn|Shawn K. Quinn]] 01:44, 20 July 2005 (UTC)

*'''Keep''': Useful. For example, see its use at the article on [[My System]], where it is used to mark a list of book editions. — '''[[User:Bcat|Bcat]]''' ([[User talk:Bcat|talk]] | [[Special:Emailuser/Bcat|email]]) 02:55, 20 July 2005 (UTC)

*'''Strong Keep''' Useful for many of the above reasons. ~ [[User:Dpr|Dpr]] 05:48, 20 July 2005 (UTC)

*'''Keep'''. Not all newbies realize they can edit wikipedia, and many lists are incomplete, thus this list is useful for ''at least'' two reasons. -[[User:JCarriker|JCarriker]] 12:38, July 20, 2005 (UTC)

*'''Comment'''. While it is certainly true that almost any article can be updated there are specific lists which are in obvious need of expansion. [[User:MadMax|MadMax]] 23:48, 20 July 2005 (UTC)

*'''Keep'''. There is such a thing as a complete list (czars of Russia), ergo, there is such a thing as an incomplete list. Just because incomplete is in the majority doesn't mean it should be taken for granted that all lists are complete. [[User:Jengod|jengod]] 18:59, July 21, 2005 (UTC)

*'''Keep'''. Many people might not know ''all'' of something, but would at least like to start the list. First, the template alerts other people who visit the article that the list is incomplete; second, the category alerts other people browsing for work that that list is incomplete. For example, if a person knew most of the enemy names from [[Super Mario RPG]], but not all, yet wanted to make a list of them, he/she could make the list of whatever he/she knows and then let someone else finish it. (Whether or not a SMRPG enemy list would be suitable on Wikipedia is another story, but that's just an example.) [[User:Glenn Magus Harvey|Glenn Magus Harvey]] 03:27, 22 July 2005 (UTC)

*'''Keep''' [[User:Cburnett|Cburnett]] 06:09, July 22, 2005 (UTC)

====[[Template:Unprotected]]====

This template seems to be well intentioned, but looks like unnecessary clutter for the reader and contains information that could just as well be placed in a comment at the top of the article containing advice for editors. --[[User:Tony Sidaway|Tony Sidaway]]|[[User talk:Tony Sidaway|Talk]] 05:22, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

*I support a '''delete''', but I do think that it may be slightly useful in a few articles. Anyways, it's not worth it. &mdash; [[User:Stevey7788|Stevey7788]] ([[User talk:Stevey7788|talk]]) 06:19, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete''' slightly useful, but I support a note made by the admin on the talk page, at the time of unprotecting. This template could be userfied for those purposes. <font color=#FF0033>[[Special:Contributions/Who|&infin;]]</font>[[User:Who|Who]][[User talk:Who|<font color=#00Ff00>?</font><font color=#FF00FF>&iquest;</font><font color=#0033FF>?</font>]] 23:14, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete'''. This could actually be harmful. Why bring other users into an edit war that's dying down? If there is still a dispute, {{tl|NPOV}} would be appropriate. Otherwise, drop it. [[User:Superm401|Superm401]] | [[User_talk:Superm401|Talk]] 20:01, July 19, 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete''' pointless. [[User:Duncharris|Dunc]]|[[User talk:duncharris|&#9786;]] 21:36, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

=== July 17 ===

====[[Template:Begin code]] and [[Template:End code]]====

*'''Delete''': Both are used on a single page: [[Wikipedia:WikiProject C/Syntax highlighting]], an apparently stillborn idea from nearly a year ago. The template's creator, [[User:Eequor]], is the single edit to both the page and the templates. -[[User:Splash|Splash]] 20:59, 17 July 2005 (UTC)

*'''Keep''' It's not exactly cluttering namespace that might be used for other things, it's not likely to cause trouble if it's used, and it's a good idea. That it is, at present, unused and appears to be part of an abandoned project is not sufficient reason to delete it. It's not hurting anything, so why get rid of it? [[User:Kmweber|Kurt Weber]] 21:06, 17 July 2005 (UTC)

**Because [[Wikipedia:Templates for deletion/Instructions#Deletion criteria|the deletion criteria]] say that not being used is a reason to delete. -[[User:Splash|Splash]] 21:12, 17 July 2005 (UTC)

***Fair enough. I'm going to propose that that be deleted from the deletion criteria; could we suspend this TfD until a decision is reached on that proposal? If not then I'll just archive them in my userspace, and then if the proposal passes (and "it's not being used" is the only significant argument for deleting these particular templates) [[User:Kmweber|Kurt Weber]] 21:30, 17 July 2005 (UTC)

****No, we can't really just artbitrarily suspend policy. You might want to make your proposal at either the [[WP:VP|Village Pump]] or the instruction page's [[Wikipedia talk:Templates for deletion/Instructions|talk page]]. -[[User:Splash|Splash]] 21:34, 17 July 2005 (UTC)

*****I already made the proposal...and I wasn't talking about "suspending policy", just suspending this particular vote until a yes or no is reached on the particular proposal I made. [[User:Kmweber|Kurt Weber]] 21:39, 17 July 2005 (UTC)

******Kurt, where did you make this proposal? [[User:TShilo12|Tomer]] ^{<font size=-1 color=129DBC>[[User talk:TShilo12|TALK]]</font>} 06:05, July 19, 2005 (UTC)

*******Thanks. Found at [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_%28policy%29#Changing_Template_for_Deletion_criteria]. [[User:TShilo12|Tomer]] ^{<font size=-1 color=129DBC>[[User talk:TShilo12|TALK]]</font>} 02:20, July 21, 2005 (UTC)

*'''Keep''' "Being unused" may be a sufficient reson for deletion, it is not a necessary reson -- in other words although we can delete soemthing unused, we don't have to. i find [[User:Kmweber|Kurt Weber]]'s arguments above persuasive. [[User:DESiegel|DES]] 22:35, 17 July 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete'''. The syntax highlighting proposal doesn't seem to have gone anywhere. In fact, the entire [[Wikipedia:WikiProject C]] doesn't seem to be all that active. On top of that, I don't think templates are going to be a good way to bring [[syntax highlighting]] to Wikipedia. This is something that (as far as I can see) could only be implemented effectively with new wiki markup. &mdash;[[User:HorsePunchKid|<span style="font-family: monospace; font-variant: small-caps;">HorsePunchKid</span>]]&rarr;[[User talk:HorsePunchKid|<span style="color: #070;">&#x9F9C;</span>]] 00:46, July 18, 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete''' Any programming code that is used in relation to an article should appear on [http://commons.wikimedia.org Wikimedia Commons] anyhow. --[[User:Jb-adder|JB Adder]] | [[User talk:Jb-adder|Talk]] 01:24, July 18, 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete''' - manual syntax highlighting is an exercise in tedium. Better to write an extension to do it. That the templates have sat around utterly unused for a very long time is a bonus. -- [[User:Cyrius|Cyrius]]|[[User talk:Cyrius|&#9998;]] 01:46, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

* '''Delete'''. I share [[User:Cyrius|Cyrius]]'s sentiment. {{User:Eequor/Signature/Syllabic}} 13:52, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

**Should just point out, in case the signature is unfamiliar, that the immediately above vote is by [[User:Eequor]], the creator and only editor of the template. -[[User:Splash|Splash]] 20:28, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

* '''Abstain'''. Agree with Splash and and Cyrius about the usefulness of this template, but also with Kurt that this vote should be suspended until the <s>(reportedly)</s> proposed policy change is addressed. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_%28policy%29#Changing_Template_for_Deletion_criteria] [[User:TShilo12|Tomer]] ^{<font size=-1 color=129DBC>[[User talk:TShilo12|TALK]]</font>} 06:05, July 19, 2005 (UTC)

*'''Keep''', could be useful, let's not eliminate the potential for usage by deleting them. [[User:JYolkowski|JYolkowski]] // [[User talk:JYolkowski|talk]] 22:00, 21 July 2005 (UTC)

==== [[Template:20-cen]] ====

'''Delete''' after subst:ing. This effectively is just article text and is redundant with straightforward wikimarkup. It's only used in two articles (despite the bazillion that must refer to the 20thC), and has only been used by its author, who has been notified of this TfD. -[[User:Splash|Splash]] 20:11, 17 July 2005 (UTC)

:'''Delete''' -- [[User:Cyrius|Cyrius]]|[[User talk:Cyrius|&#9998;]] 01:47, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

:'''Delete''', not useful. &mdash; [[User:Stevey7788|Stevey7788]] ([[User talk:Stevey7788|talk]]) 06:21, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

:'''Delete''', most articles in the Wikipedia would need it, and pretty much none do; this says that this template is a bad idea. -- [[User:Titoxd|Titoxd]] 05:44, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

:'''Comment''' as "author":

:: (a) 102 K using "20th" followed by "century" is about a bazillion, i guess, but "most" of 600K is over 300K, and

::: only 50% of the ''first'' ten of those Google hits ''could'' use the hyphen in their titles,

::: ''none'' could have used the template, without a construction like

:::: <nowiki>List of {{subst:20-cen}} [[List of 20th century classical

composers|classical composers]]</nowiki>

:::to produce the very odd and probably unhelpful

:::: List of [[20th century|20^th-century]] [[List of 20th century classical composers|classical composers]]

::: and two more randomly chosen sets of 10 hits had 1 that could use a hyphen, and the template,

:: so 5% of 102K, or 5K is a sounder estimate than 300K,

:: (b) i may have used it more as (invisible) subst than as transclusion, so you have no idea how much i did,

:: (c) for reason of the same invisibility, no one else is likely to use it without its being better publicized,

:: (d) ''i'd'' have used it more if i could recall the mnemonic reliably, or could look it up other than in my voluminous watch-list

:: (e) one of the best reasons for it is to encourage the superscripting, which is never used e.g. within the number one Google hit, [[20th century]], nor within any of the top 10 hits,

:: (f) the other best reason for it is encourage the hyphen, which is applicable not to every instance, but only to the adjectivial uses, such as (choosing from those first ten hits) the titles

::: [[20th century classical music]]

::: [[List of 20th century classical composers]]

::: [[:Category:20th century classical composers]]

::: [[:Category:20th century philosophers]]

::: [[20th-century philosophy]]

:: of which all 5 call for the hyphen in the title but only the last i've named has it there;

:: (g) encouragement is needed, not just to overcome ignorance and carelessness, but bcz it's ''fussy'' wikimarkup: instead of the usual 16 chars for

::: <nowiki>[[20th century]]</nowiki>

:: (with 14 changes of key and two probable keyboard-peeks (one for each non-letter, non-digit, non-shift-key finger positioning), it takes 40 chars to do it right w/o the template, adding (efficiently, with a typo-saving cut&paste, but counting getting onto any shift key as the traditional half-stroke allowed for the ''case''-shift key where the others are absent) not 14 keystrokes, but 29 further keystrokes and 9 further keyboard peeks,

:: (h) the previously undiscussed hyphen, IMO mandated for adjectivial use, may or not be why this tmplt was not deleted when the no-hyphen one was, ''much'' sooner after creation than this one. <br>--[[User:Jerzy|Jerzy]]·[[User talk:Jerzy|t]] 23:47, 2005 July 20 (UTC)

:'''Keep''' It ain'o big thang, especially since ''i'' have no intention of being the one to do more than this to bring it to anyone else's attention. But here's a vote after all, on the chance that some minds might change in response to the second set of arguments that suggests ''anything near'' a thorough look at the question. <br>--[[User:Jerzy|Jerzy]]·[[User talk:Jerzy|t]] 23:47, 2005 July 20 (UTC)

==== [[Template:2004Earthquake]]====

'''Delete''' after subst:ing. This (badly named) template is just article text (which is forbidden in [[Wikipedia:Template namespace]]) about deaths in the tsunami. Only added tfd notice to talk page, but will leave notices on the articles' talks. -[[User:Splash|Splash]] 19:16, 17 July 2005 (UTC)

*'''Subst'''. As far as I know, the outcome of the article text/template debates was that they should be strongly discouraged and used only as a temporary solution, rather than forbidden per se. I assume the point of this was to be able to efficiently update the death toll across multiple pages. But now it's July and I think we can probably be done wiht this. [[User:Dragons flight|Dragons flight]] 21:08, July 17, 2005 (UTC)

*'''Strong Delete''' Useless template. Should have just used plain text --[[User:Exir Kamalabadi|Exir Kamalabadi]] | [[Special:Contributions/Exir_Kamalabadi|Contributions]] 03:46, July 19, 2005 (UTC)

==== [[Template:Advert]] ====

Since advertising is not a speedy criterion, and this template is promoted for usage on several people's toolkit templates, I've reworded it to become a cleanup template instead. If you voted before, please consider if you wish to change your vote now that the template has changed. [[User:Radiant!|R]][[User_talk:Radiant!|adiant]][[meta:mergist|_<font color="orange">&gt;|&lt;</font>]] 08:23, July 17, 2005 (UTC)

----

*The following votes and comments were made before the template was reworded. The votes are, of course, still valid, but the comments may no longer be appropriate to the reworded version.

''Redundant with more flexible use of {{tl2|db|''reason''}}. We don't need a separate template for each [[WP:CSD]] reason. I'm not even sure what "blatant advertising" means, and I see this could be misused. Spamming porn links is vandalism (so already covered), but advertising your band still means a trip to [[WP:VFD]]. -- [[User:Netoholic|Netoholic]] [[User talk:Netoholic|@]] 13:10, 15 July 2005 (UTC)''

* ''I would prefer to replace this with a cleanup template stating something like "This article reads like an advertisement, which is inappropriate. You can improve Wikipedia by rewording it to be descriptive and NPOV". [[User:Radiant!|R]][[User_talk:Radiant!|adiant]][[meta:mergist|_<font color="orange">&gt;|&lt;</font>]] 13:17, July 15, 2005 (UTC)''

*: ''Quite a few existing [[Wikipedia:Cleanup resources|cleanup templates]] would work, along with an explanation on the talk page. -- [[User:Netoholic|Netoholic]] [[User talk:Netoholic|@]] 13:51, 15 July 2005 (UTC)''

*<s>''I'd like to note that advertising is NOT listed at [[WP:CSD]], and as such this template is highly misleading. It should be deleted or reworded per Radiant!. [[User:Meelar|Meelar]] [[User talk:Meelar|(talk)]] 13:55, July 15, 2005 (UTC)''</s> '''Keep''', now that it has been reworded. [[User:Meelar|Meelar]] [[User talk:Meelar|(talk)]] 18:37, July 17, 2005 (UTC)

*<s>'''''Delete''' since advertising is, for some reason, not a candidate for CSD (not even under the current proposals). As Netoholic says, there are other cleanup templates that can be used. -[[User:Splash|Splash]] 14:03, 15 July 2005 (UTC)''</s>

*<s>'''''Delete''' as per [[User:Splash|Splash]]. This tempalte makes an incorrect statemetn, as simply being advertising is not currently a valid reason for speedy deletion under the CSD. [[User:DESiegel|DES]] 21:30, 15 July 2005 (UTC)''</s>

*'''''Keep''' -- It is true that we do not need a template for every possible speedy delete reason, however it is '''very useful''' to have a short way of entering the common cases that show up in practice: a common case is an article that is clearly spam, i.e. just a link to a commercial website. This is useful for reducing the amount of time it takes to label these advertisements, therefore I think '''Advert''' will be useful, and I believe the burden to delete this template should now be on the supporters to show that it is actually ''not'' useful, it is new, promising, and that it should be properly noted and given a chance to see if it is a useful template or not. --[[User:Mysidia|Mysidia]] 06:07, 16 July 2005 (UTC)''

**<s>This template claims that a page to which it has been applied is subject to speedy deletion per [[WP:CSD]]. If a page is meaningful spam, even blantent advertising spam, exactly which of the CSD criteria apply to it? As far as i can see, none of them, so such a page must go to VfD under the current rules. This template says otherwise. If this template denounced ads and put them on VfD, that would be another matter. It doesn't. It contains incorrect statements, and might lead to incorrect action under the current rules. It should go. [[User:DESiegel|DES]] 21:42, 16 July 2005 </s>(UTC)''

*'''''<s>Delete<s>'''. As Above. Advertising, in and of itself, is not a reason for speedy deletion since some non-trivial fraction of all things that get advertised are in fact notable, in which case the facts provided in the advertisement can be used as the foundation for a real page. I would '''not object''' to keeping this if Radiant's suggestion for turning this into a cleanup template specifically targeting pages that read like advertisements is followed. [[User:Dragons flight|Dragons flight]] 06:38, July 16, 2005 (UTC)''

----

*'''Keep''' new version. [[User:Radiant!|R]][[User_talk:Radiant!|adiant]][[meta:mergist|_<font color="orange">&gt;|&lt;</font>]] 08:23, July 17, 2005 (UTC)

*'''Keep''' revised version. [[User:DESiegel|DES]] 08:27, 17 July 2005 (UTC)

*'''Keep''' [[User:Dragons flight|Dragons flight]] 08:32, July 17, 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete''' - Too narrow. Use the other [[Wikipedia:Template messages/Cleanup|standard, existing cleanup templates]], whichever is most fitting (cleanup-importance or cleanup-tone, maybe). Saying it reads like an advertisement does not give specific direction for future work. -- [[User:Netoholic|Netoholic]] [[User talk:Netoholic|@]] 08:40, 17 July 2005 (UTC)

*'''Keep''' the new version. --[[User:KFP|KFP]] 13:24, 17 July 2005 (UTC)

*'''Keep''' the new version. I think it gives quite a bit of direction, linking as it does to [[WP:NOT]] a soapboax, [[Wikipedia:cleanup]], [[Wikipedia:Style and How-to Directory]] and [[Wikipedia:NPOV]]. -[[User:Splash|Splash]] 17:59, 17 July 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete'''. Having a myriad of templates like this encourages users to spend time dicking around thinking about what template to put on an article rather than fixing the thing. Second choice: Use only on talk pages. Content for editors goes on the talk page! [[User:Pcb21|Pcb21|]] [[User_talk:Pcb21|Pete]] 21:20, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

*'''Keep'''. It seems like this issue has been fixed. -- [[User:Titoxd|Titoxd]] 05:50, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

*The new version is fine, but I think it is still desirable to separately have a quick way of marking unfixable spam for speedy deletion, particularly since <nowiki>{{</nowiki>[[Template:d]]}} by itself seems to have been changed to include a rather unsightly <nowiki>{{1}}</nowiki> as of late when an explicit reason is given; even if "it is spam" is not one of the explicit criteria for speedy deletion, it is no coincidence that an article nominated for such deletion was Spam.. probably the '''real reason''' an article get nominated which is what should be shown, the CSD just which one it was (Vfd or Speedy), and probably many such advertisement do in fact get nominated for speedy deletion do not strictly meet the CSD, so the template should make it clear that advertisement itself is not the criteria but '''the article contains no useful content and is /no spam..''' or ''the article contains a link only'', i.e. <nowiki>{{d-link}}</nowiki> --[[User:Mysidia|Mysidia]] 22:24, 20 July 2005 (UTC)

==== [[Template:TitleDisputed]] ====

Duplicates existing (and more descriptive) "[[Template:NPOV-title]]". -- [[User:Netoholic|Netoholic]] [[User talk:Netoholic|@]] 06:02, 17 July 2005 (UTC)

* '''Keep'''. This template has been used on a handful of articles for over 2 months without any complaints. It signifies the dispute is specific to the title whereas "NPOV-title" is overly broad and too general because it mentions subject matter and organization (could be a dispute over anything which lessens the fact to the reader that there is a legitimate neutrality dispute somewhere) and its font is too small. [[User:Zen-master|zen master]][[User talk:Zen-master| T]] 06:08, 17 July 2005 (UTC)

:*The editor is forgetting my complaints about its use on every page that he added it to. (see my vote and comments below). -[[User:Willmcw|Willmcw]] 10:08, July 17, 2005 (UTC)

*'''Comment''' {{tl|TitleDisputed}} seems to be in much more frequent use than {{tl|NPOV-title}} although neither is used all that much, unless they are normally substed, which seems unlikely. [[User:DESiegel|DES]] 06:09, 17 July 2005 (UTC)

*'''Comment''' I don't think there is much practical use for this tag. If there is a dispute on a title, they should be directed to use [[Wikipedia:Requested moves]], by leaving a note on the users talk page. If for some odd reason there is a revert war, then one could use one of these tags. The more useful title should be used, and then placed on the templates page, where {{tl|TitleNPOV}} already exists btw, and redirect to the non-deleted one. It seems that [[User:Zen-master|zen master]] has been in a few 3RR situations, and can only suggest that maybe a nice note on where to find the existing templates [[Wikipedia:Template messages]] and how to propose templates would be helpful to them later. <font color=#FF0033>[[Special:Contributions/Who|&infin;]]</font>[[User:Who|Who]][[User talk:Who|<font color=#00Ff00>?</font><font color=#FF00FF>&iquest;</font><font color=#0033FF>?</font>]] 07:39, 17 July 2005 (UTC)

::{TitleDisputed} has been used on articles where there was no consensus for a new title (requested moves failed) and a legitimate neutrality dispute over the title remains. What is the relevance of 3RR as far as the quality of this template is concerned? Would netoholic's infamous history be relevant on this TfD using your logic then too? This template has been used for 2 months without complaint, it is more specific and clearer than {NPOV-title}. [[User:Zen-master|zen master]][[User talk:Zen-master| T]] 09:26, 17 July 2005 (UTC)

:::I appologize, I did not mean it in an offensive manner, I merely stated that your history showed that you did not defer to the discussion pages. As far as the title, like I said, I think the one that is used the most often or is easier, should be used, and one of them redirected. I did not mean to belittle your comments, only was trying to make the suggestion to view the discussions and propose template creation first, as I myself am guilty of doing. <font color=#FF0033>[[Special:Contributions/Who|&infin;]]</font>[[User:Who|Who]][[User talk:Who|<font color=#00Ff00>?</font><font color=#FF00FF>&iquest;</font><font color=#0033FF>?</font>]] 09:50, 17 July 2005 (UTC)

::::Your post once again is inaccurate/suggestive, I defer to the talk page all the time (look at my ratio of talk page edits to article edits on editcount). To what articles are you referring specifically? How does supporting {TitleDisputed} not "defer" to the talk page?? Either there is a legitimate neutrality dispute or there is not. What about the point that {TitleDisputed} actually signifies specifically that the title is disputed whereas {NPOV-title} suggests that any number of multiple nebulous things could be disputed? [[User:Zen-master|zen master]][[User talk:Zen-master| T]] 10:15, 17 July 2005 (UTC)

:::::Mainly referring to [[Template talk:TitleDisputed]] (note the red link, hence no discussion), may have saved a lot of the conflicts in its [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:TitleDisputed&action=history history]. [[Wikipedia talk:Template messages]], to propose the template and discuss its creation and format. These two places minimum. As for disputed titles, there was the other template, which could have been used. Now we have redundant templates, and I only made the suggestion that you propose the template, before creating it to avoid Tfd. <font color=#FF0033>[[Special:Contributions/Who|&infin;]]</font>[[User:Who|Who]][[User talk:Who|<font color=#00Ff00>?</font><font color=#FF00FF>&iquest;</font><font color=#0033FF>?</font>]] 10:27, 17 July 2005 (UTC)

::::The need arose to signify that just the title of an article was disputed, {NPOV-title} is/was insufficient as it is too generic/nebulous. {TitleDisputed} has been accepted for over 2 months, someone could have suggested a move/merge on the template's talk page to spark a discussion rather than going ahead with a TfD. [[User:Zen-master|zen master]][[User talk:Zen-master| T]] 10:40, 17 July 2005 (UTC)

*'''Merge''' the two templates. I can see the use but we don't need two of them, so pick whatever wording/layout is best and redirect the other there. [[User:Radiant!|R]][[User_talk:Radiant!|adiant]][[meta:mergist|_<font color="orange">&gt;|&lt;</font>]] 08:23, July 17, 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete'''. Other template is sufficient. This template was created simply to address one set of article titles that the community had a full discussion and vote.([[Wikipedia talk:Conspiracy theory]]) The vote was clearly in favor of existing titles, yet the editor who proposed the original changes added this template to several articles anyway. I complained about it on each of the talk pages. [[Talk:AIDS conspiracy theories#Title disputed]], [[Talk:Saddam Hussein and Al-Qaeda#Disputed title]], [[Talk:9/11 conspiracy theories#Disputed title]] and [[Talk:9/11 domestic complicity conspiracy theories#Disputed title]]. In each case the discussion tended more towards the suitability of applying the template than to the template itself. Nonetheless, its use has been discussed at some length previously. -[[User:Willmcw|Willmcw]] 10:08, July 17, 2005 (UTC)

==== [[Template:LAME]] ====

We shouldn't advertise our past transgressions. The existence of [[WP:LAME]] is more than enough. This will only stir the pot. -- [[User:Netoholic|Netoholic]] [[User talk:Netoholic|@]] 05:14, 17 July 2005 (UTC)

*Wasn't this nominated last week as well? '''Delete''', irrelevant meta-data. [[User:Radiant!|R]][[User_talk:Radiant!|adiant]][[meta:mergist|_<font color="orange">&gt;|&lt;</font>]] 08:23, July 17, 2005 (UTC)

*<b>Delete.</b> [[User:Almafeta|Almafeta]] 12:52, 17 July 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete'''. People are getting way too enamored with this sort of thing. I like [[WP:LAME]] a lot, but I don't want it advertised on every article it lists. (Would consistency require that it be added to the talk page of the Main Page, for example? Say it isn't so. :-) [[User:JRM|JRM]] · [[User talk:JRM|Talk]] 12:54, 17 July 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete''' Another edit war template!? [[Template:editwar]] is sufficient. --[[User:Jb-adder|JB Adder]] | [[User talk:Jb-adder|Talk]] 01:32, July 18, 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete'''. &mdash; [[User:Stevey7788|Stevey7788]] ([[User talk:Stevey7788|talk]]) 06:22, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete'''. Inflaming recently-hurt egos by leaving a notice on the disputed page calling their efforts "lame" sounds like poking a beehive with a stick. -- [[User:Titoxd|Titoxd]] 05:55, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

*'''Keep'''. Sadly useful. And some users need a clue-by-four to get thier attention. --[[User:Calton|Calton]] | [[User talk:Calton|Talk]] 02:29, July 21, 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete'''. Neither amusing nor instructive. -[[User:Jmh123|Jmh123]] 15:42, 21 July 2005 (UTC)

=== July 16 ===

==== [[Template:AubreyMaturinSeries]] ====

The pages that this navigated among have now all been merged, so this tempalte is no longer needed. [[User:DESiegel|DES]] 21:28, 16 July 2005 (UTC)

*Well done! '''Delete''' then. [[User:Radiant!|R]][[User_talk:Radiant!|adiant]][[meta:mergist|_<font color="orange">&gt;|&lt;</font>]] 08:23, July 17, 2005 (UTC)

==== [[Template:Privileged access]] ====

We have a general disclaimer. Usage not worthy of a template. -- [[User:Netoholic|Netoholic]] [[User talk:Netoholic|@]] 21:21, 16 July 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete''': there's a general disclaimer as [[User:Netoholic|Netoholic]] says, and [[WP:NOT]] a FAQ, either, which this has overtones of. Also, WP shouldn't make 'recommendations' in the way this tl does. -[[User:Splash|Splash]] 22:54, 16 July 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete''', pointless. People who can't handle BOFH status in Linux generally aren't given it anyway. [[User:Radiant!|R]][[User_talk:Radiant!|adiant]][[meta:mergist|_<font color="orange">&gt;|&lt;</font>]] 08:23, July 17, 2005 (UTC)

**You forget that linux impementations are not infrequently installed on single-user computers as replacements for/alternatives to Windoes. In such cases the user generally has full rights, but may not know as much as s/he ought to about the dangers of some commands. [[User:DESiegel|DES]] 17:06, 17 July 2005 (UTC)

*'''Weak keep''' this is important info about such commnds, but might be better ingtegrated into the article directly. [[User:DESiegel|DES]] 17:06, 17 July 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete''' Agree to some extent about WP not making recommendations (but weakly, because I think there can be [[CPR_summary#1._Check_for_DANGER|exceptions]]). More to the point, this template will not make this warning appear where it is most needed. It is currently just linked from [[chown]], because it ''requires'' root access. But many commands which don't necessarily ''require'' root access are much more dangerous if invoked as root, for example [[rm (unix)|rm]]. I think the general comment on [[superuser]] is enough. [[User:80.229.160.150|80.229.160.150]] 21:10, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete''', agree with Splash, Netoholic. [[User:Pcb21|Pcb21|]] [[User_talk:Pcb21|Pete]] 21:22, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

==== [[Template:Dangerous]] ====

We have a general disclaimer. Maybe a joke creation? -- [[User:Netoholic|Netoholic]] [[User talk:Netoholic|@]] 20:55, 16 July 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete''', per Netoholic. -[[User:Splash|Splash]] 22:54, 16 July 2005 (UTC)

*Not a bad idea per se but I can't really think of a place to put it, and from its talk page neither can the creator, so '''delete'''. [[User:Radiant!|R]][[User_talk:Radiant!|adiant]][[meta:mergist|_<font color="orange">&gt;|&lt;</font>]] 08:23, July 17, 2005 (UTC)

==== [[Template:Policysuspended]] ====

I'd say redirect to [[Template:Notpolicy]], but that one was deleted too. -- [[User:Netoholic|Netoholic]] [[User talk:Netoholic|@]] 20:37, 16 July 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete''' &mdash; there's no page this could apply to. Either it ''is'' policy or it is ''not''. I suppose this is intended for a hypothetical current policy which is being repolled with a view to removal. Even then, it would presumably remain policy until consensus decided against it - it wouldn't be 'suspended'. -[[User:Splash|Splash]] 22:54, 16 July 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete''', [[m:instruction creep]]. We don't suspend policy (''"hey, I don't like the NPOV policy, how about we suspend it for today?"''). We do have disputed guidelines but that's entirely different. [[User:Radiant!|R]][[User_talk:Radiant!|adiant]][[meta:mergist|_<font color="orange">&gt;|&lt;</font>]] 08:23, July 17, 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete''', as per [[User:Splash|Splash]] above. -- [[User:Titoxd|Titoxd]] 04:59, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete''' -- If a policy is suspended, then remove the <nowiki>{{policy}}</nowiki> tag from it to indicate that fact. --[[User:Mysidia|Mysidia]] 22:31, 20 July 2005 (UTC)

==== [[Template:TPOV]] ====

Since when do we have a problem with POV ''templates''? Redundant with {{tl|tfd}} and the Edit button. :) -- [[User:Netoholic|Netoholic]] [[User talk:Netoholic|@]] 20:45, 16 July 2005 (UTC)

*'''Hmmm'''. Nothing links here. But POV is not a case for {{tl|tfd}}, it just needs reworking and the tag indicates that (on a talk page, I presume). The nomination argument applies equally well to articles, so we could do away with all the POV templates on that basis, which we clearly can't. I'm inclined to suggest a weak delete, but I'd be interested in other arguments too. -[[User:Splash|Splash]] 22:54, 16 July 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete''', fork. Wow, is it general cleanup day in template land? Not that I mind :) [[User:Radiant!|R]][[User_talk:Radiant!|adiant]][[meta:mergist|_<font color="orange">&gt;|&lt;</font>]] 08:23, July 17, 2005 (UTC)

*I created this because I thought a certain template was non-neutral and I thought a POV notice would be of use. It was a little ad-hoc but I used it at least once. &mdash; '''[[User:Philwelch|Phil]]''' ''[[User_talk:Philwelch|Welch]]'' 08:11, 17 July 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete'''. --[[User:Minghong|minghong]] 09:57, 17 July 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete''' -- or at least it should not be in a box and look more like [[Template:tfd]], so it is clear that it is a dispute about the template and not the article that uses it.. I cannot think of a likely situation where this applies.. the meaning of having many of the templates on an article is inherently POV at a meta level.. take <nowiki>{{cleanup}}</nowiki> it represents the opinion of a few editors who think an article needs to be cleaned up, a '''vfd''' tag on an article represents a point of view by as few as 1 persons that an article merits listing for deletion, a '''POV''' tag in and of itself is POV. There is the issue of '''uses of a template''' and what is expressed by its appearance in a specific spot versus its contents in general. So templates are allowed to be POV, and if someone makes a <nowiki>{{sucks}}</nowiki> template with text "This subject really sucks" or "This is a sucky stub", then the right tag to add to it is <nowiki>{{tfd}}</nowiki> not <nowiki>{{tpov}}</nowiki>, or EDIT and fix the text, since templates are short enough to do this easily -- with long articles, it may be rather difficult to edit them into NPOV. --[[User:Mysidia|Mysidia]] 22:45, 20 July 2005 (UTC)

==== [[Template:Long NPOV]] ====

The very subtle text differences seems like it would be something which could be added to [[Template:POV]], rather than forking a whole new template. -- [[User:Netoholic|Netoholic]] [[User talk:Netoholic|@]] 19:46, 16 July 2005 (UTC)

*'''Agree''' with nom. Maybe a proposal on the talk page to adjust the existing template. <font color=#FF0033>[[Special:Contributions/Who|&infin;]]</font>[[User:Who|Who]][[User talk:Who|<font color=#00Ff00>?</font><font color=#FF00FF>&iquest;</font><font color=#0033FF>?</font>]] 07:41, 17 July 2005 (UTC)

* '''Delete''' - agree with Netoholic. Have seen this cause large problems on a few pages. - [[User:Ta bu shi da yu|Ta bu shi da yu]] 07:42, 17 July 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete''', fork. [[User:Radiant!|R]][[User_talk:Radiant!|adiant]][[meta:mergist|_<font color="orange">&gt;|&lt;</font>]] 08:23, July 17, 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete''' It looks worse and says nothing extra. [[User:Hipocrite|Hipocrite]] 16:49, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

*'''Keep''', the invitation to discuss the problems can be useful in certain cases. [[User:JYolkowski|JYolkowski]] // [[User talk:JYolkowski|talk]] 22:28, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

*'''Keep''', I can see a use for this in some cases. --[[User:Shawn K. Quinn|Shawn K. Quinn]] 01:46, 20 July 2005 (UTC)

*'''Provisional Delete''' if wording of NPOV template is at least reviewed. [[User:Robert McClenon|Robert McClenon]] 19:12, 20 July 2005 (UTC)

*'''Merge to POV''' and maintain the longer text as the better version. Note that the present style of [[Template:Long NPOV|Long NPOV]] is listed at [[Template_talk:POV#Style_change_proposal]], but for some reason, Template:POV is protected. --[[User:Mysidia|Mysidia]] 22:52, 20 July 2005 (UTC)

*'''Keep''' More ways to say NPOV are good. [[User:Unfocused|<FONT COLOR="#006699">Un</FONT>]][[User talk:Unfocused|focused]] 22:43, 21 July 2005 (UTC)

==== [[Template:Cleanuplo]] ====

(also the generated [[:Category:Cleanup leftovers]])

This "leftover" designation seems all-but abandoned. They now use [[Template:Cleanup-date]]. -- [[User:Netoholic|Netoholic]] [[User talk:Netoholic|@]] 19:17, 16 July 2005 (UTC)

* '''Delete''' tl and cat, but '''replace current uses with {{tl|cleanup-date}}'''. This has been superseded. -[[User:Splash|Splash]] 22:54, 16 July 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete''', good idea but doesn't actually work. [[User:Radiant!|R]][[User_talk:Radiant!|adiant]][[meta:mergist|_<font color="orange">&gt;|&lt;</font>]] 08:23, July 17, 2005 (UTC)

==== [[Template:Cleanupcsh]] ====

Topic-specific cleanup messages are not needed. -- [[User:Netoholic|Netoholic]] [[User talk:Netoholic|@]] 19:11, 16 July 2005 (UTC)

*'''Weak Keep'''. Since this is part of a wiki project, it might actually serve a purpose since there are specific guidelines for those articles. However not putting these articles into a category seems to be self defeating in getting someone to find and fix them. If that project is producing high quality articles, maybe it should be expanded to all state highways and this template expanded, and renamed, so it is less specific. [[User:Vegaswikian|Vegaswikian]] 19:21, 16 July 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete''' but possibly get a new template "this article is related to that wikiproject" (but it would require rewording and renaming so I'm voting del on this one). [[User:Radiant!|R]][[User_talk:Radiant!|adiant]][[meta:mergist|_<font color="orange">&gt;|&lt;</font>]] 08:23, July 17, 2005 (UTC)

**A such template exists- {{tl|California State Highway WikiProject}}. It goes on the talk page of each article. --[[User:Rschen7754|Rschen7754]] 16:13, July 19, 2005 (UTC)

*'''Keep'''. This is part of a [[Wikipedia:WikiProject California State Highways|WikiProject]], and I have used it in the past to mark articles that really need some help. --[[User:Rschen7754|Rschen7754]]

*'''Keep'''. This is part of the ongoing CA highway wikiproject. A full state highway project for all states is too daunting at this time.[[User:Gateman1997|Gateman1997]]

*'''Keep'''. It's easier for the project people [us] to see which project-related articles need cleanup by looking at the 'what links here' as as well as the reasons stated by Gateman1997 and Rschen7754. [[User:Atanamir|atanamir]] 22:52, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

==== [[Template:Cleanup-serious]] ====

(also the generated [[:Category:Wikipedia serious cleanup]])

This template is in serious need of deletion. -- [[User:Netoholic|Netoholic]] [[User talk:Netoholic|@]] 19:00, 16 July 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete'''. Cleanup seems to do a better job in explaining the work needed. [[User:Vegaswikian|Vegaswikian]] 19:14, 16 July 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete''' per above. -[[User:Splash|Splash]] 22:54, 16 July 2005 (UTC)

*<s>'''Merge''' with [[Template:Cleanup-just kidding]]</s> '''delete'''. [[User:Radiant!|R]][[User_talk:Radiant!|adiant]][[meta:mergist|_<font color="orange">&gt;|&lt;</font>]] 08:23, July 17, 2005 (UTC)

**I actually physically laughed out loud when I read that! -[[User:Splash|Splash]] 18:03, 17 July 2005 (UTC)

==== [[Template:Cleanup-s]] & [[Template:Cleanuplite]] ====

More miniature versions of an established template. Orphaned, not worth redirecting. -- [[User:Netoholic|Netoholic]] [[User talk:Netoholic|@]] 19:15, 16 July 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete'''. Cleanup seems to do a better job in explaining the work needed. [[User:Vegaswikian|Vegaswikian]] 19:11, 16 July 2005 (UTC)

*: I added [[Template:Cleanuplite]] after your vote, please confirm whether you agree with that one's deletion. -- [[User:Netoholic|Netoholic]] [[User talk:Netoholic|@]] 19:15, 16 July 2005 (UTC)

*::'''Delete'''. Cleanup still explains what to do in a better way. [[User:Vegaswikian|Vegaswikian]] 19:23, 16 July 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete both''', cleanup does the job fine. -[[User:Splash|Splash]] 22:54, 16 July 2005 (UTC)

*'''Cleanup''', oh wait, I mean '''delete'''! Agree. --[[User:Dmcdevit|Dmcdevit]]·[[User talk:Dmcdevit|t]] 07:50, July 17, 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete''' forks. [[User:Radiant!|R]][[User_talk:Radiant!|adiant]][[meta:mergist|_<font color="orange">&gt;|&lt;</font>]] 08:23, July 17, 2005 (UTC)

*Maybe keep cleanuplight -- it looks slicker for marking just a section for cleanup. --[[User:Mysidia|Mysidia]] 22:57, 20 July 2005 (UTC)

==== [[Template:Cleanup-nonsense-serious]] ====

Funny, but not an appropriate template. -- [[User:Netoholic|Netoholic]] [[User talk:Netoholic|@]] 18:51, 16 July 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete''' per [[User:Netoholic|Netoholic]]. -[[User:Splash|Splash]] 22:54, 16 July 2005 (UTC)

*'''Redirect''' to {{tl|delete}}. If something is patent nonsense, there's no point in cleaning it up except with a flamethrower. [[User:Radiant!|R]][[User_talk:Radiant!|adiant]][[meta:mergist|_<font color="orange">&gt;|&lt;</font>]] 08:23, July 17, 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete'''. Not a needed template, as nonsense falls under the criteria for speedy deletion. --[[User:Blu Aardvark|Blu Aardvark]] | ^{[[User_talk:Blu Aardvark|(talk)]] | [[special:contributions/Blu Aardvark|(contribs)}]] 09:50, 17 July 2005 (UTC)

* The only possible use I can see for this is as a decoy that can be used by sysops so that they can see which articles link to the template so that the articles can be speedy-deleted. Unfortunately, such use will catch articles for five minutes until someone figures out what the admins are doing and the template becomes useless. Then, I vote '''delete'''. -- [[User:Titoxd|Titoxd]] 06:04, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete'''...funny...did anyone bother to look at the choice of image for this template? :-p [[User:TShilo12|Tomer]] ^{<font size=-1 color=129DBC>[[User talk:TShilo12|TALK]]</font>} 06:37, July 19, 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete'''. [[User:Jayjg|Jayjg ]]^{<font color="DarkGreen">[[User_talk:Jayjg|(talk)]]</font>} 20:12, 21 July 2005 (UTC)

==== [[Template:MergeVfD]] ====

Seems a little too specific, and is currently unused. -- [[User:Netoholic|Netoholic]] [[User talk:Netoholic|@]] 18:34, 16 July 2005 (UTC)

*'''Weak delete'''. I didn't know this existed. Having a link to the VfD discussion might quite possibly be useful so that the merging editor can see what particular things people thought. However, nearly all merge votes on VfD are pretty non-specific in what they mean, so there would not be much to gain. Seeing as a link to the VfD ought to be on the talk page and a merging editor ought to read the talk page, that ought to be enough...-[[User:Splash|Splash]] 22:54, 16 July 2005 (UTC)

*<s>'''Reluctant delete'''</s> I agree with [[User:Splash|Splash]]. If this were listed on the templates page, it would probably be used more often. I think it is useful to be able to easily access the Vfd discussion, but that can always be annotated on the talk page. <font color=#FF0033>[[Special:Contributions/Who|&infin;]]</font>[[User:Who|Who]][[User talk:Who|<font color=#00Ff00>?</font><font color=#FF00FF>&iquest;</font><font color=#0033FF>?</font>]] 07:45, 17 July 2005 (UTC)

:*'''Keep''', change vote, as I fealt it was useful, if other editors are ready to accept it's usage, than it should be kept. It should be added to Template messages after this Tfd. <font color=#FF0033>[[Special:Contributions/Who|&infin;]]</font>[[User:Who|Who]][[User talk:Who|<font color=#00Ff00>?</font><font color=#FF00FF>&iquest;</font><font color=#0033FF>?</font>]] 23:09, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

*'''Keep''' this one, but reword and relayout to match {{tl|merge}}, and advertise its usage. This is useful because VFD closing admins often don't perform a merge for lack of time, and a regular tl:merge is sometimes removed swiftly by people unaware of the VFD. [[User:Radiant!|R]][[User_talk:Radiant!|adiant]][[meta:mergist|_<font color="orange">&gt;|&lt;</font>]] 08:23, July 17, 2005 (UTC)

*'''Keep''' as per Radient. [[User:DESiegel|DES]] 04:23, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

*'''Keep''' and '''Advertise'''. [[User:TShilo12|Tomer]] ^{<font size=-1 color=129DBC>[[User talk:TShilo12|TALK]]</font>} 06:39, July 19, 2005 (UTC)

*'''Keep'''. I know of two articles that could use it right now. [[User:Jayjg|Jayjg ]]^{<font color="DarkGreen">[[User_talk:Jayjg|(talk)]]</font>} 20:24, 21 July 2005 (UTC)

==== [[Template:Merge-tasks]] ====

Orphaned, no purpose. -- [[User:Netoholic|Netoholic]] [[User talk:Netoholic|@]] 18:32, 16 July 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete''', goodness knows what that was meant for. -[[User:Splash|Splash]] 22:54, 16 July 2005 (UTC)

*If anything would link here, I'd say redir to {{tl|merge}}. Since that isn't the case, '''delete'''. [[User:Radiant!|R]][[User_talk:Radiant!|adiant]][[meta:mergist|_<font color="orange">&gt;|&lt;</font>]] 08:23, July 17, 2005 (UTC)

*'''del''', no clear usage --[[User:MarSch|MarSch]] 07:37, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

====[[Template:End Spoiler]]====

Unused, poorly worded (I read this as "Details of the ending or end of plot"), and redundant to [[Template:Endspoiler]] (which is itself undocumented and barely used, but might be worth salvaging). &mdash;[[User:Cryptic|Cryptic]] [[User talk:Cryptic|(talk)]] 08:57, 16 July 2005 (UTC)

*'''del''' unused camelcase poorly worded fork --[[User:MarSch|MarSch]] 12:46, 16 July 2005 (UTC)

* ''delete''' -- [[User:Netoholic|Netoholic]] [[User talk:Netoholic|@]] 18:32, 16 July 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete''' as above. -[[User:Splash|Splash]] 22:54, 16 July 2005 (UTC)

*'''Merge with [[Template:spoiler]]''' They are both the same, so having two different templates that talk of the same thing isn't much use. (I think it might be instruction creep, I don't know.) --[[User:Jb-adder|JB Adder]] | [[User talk:Jb-adder|Talk]] 01:22, July 18, 2005 (UTC)

*This is '''not''' the same as [[Template:spoiler]], it is more or less the same as [[Template:Endspoiler]]. That is, it indicates the end of a an area of text that contains spoilers. '''Merge with [[Template:Endspoiler]]''' and document. [[User:DESiegel|DES]] 04:20, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

**On [[Wikipedia:Spoiler warning]] {{tl|Endspoiler}} has now been documented.

*'''Delete''' -- [[User:Paultran|takagawa-kun]] 16:12, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

*'''Merge''' per [[User:DESiegel|DES]]. [[User:TShilo12|Tomer]] ^{<font size=-1 color=129DBC>[[User talk:TShilo12|TALK]]</font>} 06:42, July 19, 2005 (UTC)

====[[Template:Jeopardy! Ultimate Tournament of Champions spoiler]]====

Unused, and far, far too specific. &mdash;[[User:Cryptic|Cryptic]] [[User talk:Cryptic|(talk)]] 08:57, 16 July 2005 (UTC)

*'''del''' unused --[[User:MarSch|MarSch]] 12:43, 16 July 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete''' - Warning: Results of this TFD vote follow. -- [[User:Netoholic|Netoholic]] [[User talk:Netoholic|@]] 18:32, 16 July 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete'''. way to specific, though i do love Jeopardy!. [[User:Sasquatch|Sasquatch{{unicode|&#08242;}}]]{{unicode|&#08596;}}[[User_talk:Sasquatch|Talk]]{{unicode|&#08596;}}[[Special:Contributions/Sasquatch|Contributions]] 04:41, July 19, 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete'''. "What is a rake?" [[User:TShilo12|Tomer]] ^{<font size=-1 color=129DBC>[[User talk:TShilo12|TALK]]</font>} 06:43, July 19, 2005 (UTC)

==== [[Template:Change]] ====

(see also [[Template:Space]] right below)

Not a very useful math template, uniting topics as distinct as arithmetic and calculus (the former is not about change by the way). Calculus is a subset of analysis, so both should not be in that template. I believe this template is not very helpful. The discussion at [[Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Mathematics#Templates_for_thought]] seems to confirm that. [[User:Oleg Alexandrov|Oleg Alexandrov]] 06:42, 16 July 2005 (UTC)

* '''Delete'''. [[User:Oleg Alexandrov|Oleg Alexandrov]] 06:42, 16 July 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete''', if the project that would use it thinks it's not wanted. As the nominator says, it groups together things that don't have any particularly convincing relationship. -[[User:Splash|Splash]] 22:54, 16 July 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete'''. [[User:Linas|linas]] 17:57, 17 July 2005 (UTC)

* '''Delete'''. [[User:Dominus|Dominus]] 13:56, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

====[[Template:Space]]====

(See also [[Template:Change]] right above). This template puts together a lot of articles having rather little in common, like [[Trigonometry]], [[Algebraic topology]], and [[Functional analysis]]. I doubt the concept of space is so important in trigonometry and also in fractal geometry listed there. In short, I don't think that template is terribly helpful for navigating between articles. [[User:Oleg Alexandrov|Oleg Alexandrov]] 06:42, 16 July 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete''' [[User:Oleg Alexandrov|Oleg Alexandrov]] 06:46, 16 July 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete''', there's not really a topic called 'space' in mathematics anyway, is there? -[[User:Splash|Splash]] 22:54, 16 July 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete'''. [[User:Linas|linas]] 17:58, 17 July 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete''', for the same reasons as [[Template:Structure]] and [[Template:Quantity]]. [[User:Jitse Niesen|Jitse Niesen]] ([[User talk:Jitse Niesen|talk]]) 13:49, 21 July 2005 (UTC)

==== [[Template:Magic-spoiler]] ====

Far too specific. We already have [[Template:Spoiler]] and even better [[Template:Solution]]. -- [[User:Netoholic|Netoholic]] [[User talk:Netoholic|@]] 06:19, 16 July 2005 (UTC)

*

*'''Keep'''. Specific, yes, but I think it feels a meaningful niche. {{tl|spoiler}} clearly isn't appropriate since magic tricks don't really have "plot and/or ending details". {{tl|solution}} is a lot closer, but "Warning: Solution details follow" is really not a strong or specific enough warning to my taste. I would expect to see something like {{tl|solution}} before the answer to a math problem or a riddle, i.e. the kind of problems that one could figure out by logical deduction. In most cases, magic tricks simply can't be figured out merely from a description of their appearance. As such, I favor the stronger warning for magic secrets. [[User:Dragons flight|Dragons flight]] 07:03, July 16, 2005 (UTC)

*'''Keep'''. I don't think one more spoiler template is going to kill us, and there is a good case for a difference in phrasing. Note that people are currently getting quite excited about the fact that Wikipedia reveals the secrets to magic tricks. I recently added this template to [[Wikipedia:Spoiler warning]]. I wonder how many other spoiler templates exist that are not listed there. [[User:Bovlb|Bovlb]] 07:57:41, 2005-07-16 (UTC) ''rephrased [[User:Bovlb|Bovlb]] 17:43:25, 2005-07-16 (UTC)''

*'''Keep''' at least until the furor that Bovlb mentions dies down. (See [[Talk:Out of This World (card trick)]].) &mdash;[[User:Cryptic|Cryptic]] [[User talk:Cryptic|(talk)]] 08:57, 16 July 2005 (UTC)

*'''Strong Keep''' This is a very specific and special kind of spoiler, not like the more literary uses for {{tl|spoiler}} and most of the other spoiler templates. A specific warning is very useflu in this case. [[User:DESiegel|DES]] 21:34, 16 July 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete''', replace with {{tl|spoiler-about}} or {{tl|spoiler-other}} as appropriate. [[User:Radiant!|R]][[User_talk:Radiant!|adiant]][[meta:mergist|_<font color="orange">&gt;|&lt;</font>]] 08:23, July 17, 2005 (UTC)

*:Both of those still reference "plot and/or ending details", which is a poor fit for magic secrets, in my opinion. [[User:Dragons flight|Dragons flight]] 08:29, July 17, 2005 (UTC)

*'''Keep'''. Neither of the cited alternatives has applicable language. -- [[User:Finlay McWalter|Finlay McWalter]] | [[User talk:Finlay McWalter | Talk]] 17:43, July 17, 2005 (UTC)

*'''Keep''' I agree, the wording in the suggested alternatives seems quite inapplicable --[[User:Johnjosephbachir|Johnjosephbachir]] 18:23, 17 July 2005 (UTC)

*'''Keep''' Unlike [[Template:spoiler]] (which is used for novels and movies) and [[Template:Solution]] (which is used for common mathematical problems), this spoiler warning actualy goes "behind-the-scenes" with a magic trick; thus, adding this to a magic trick article (eg sleight-of-hand) will tell the reader to steer from it if they do not want to destroy the 'magic' of the illusion. To say ''plot details follow'' or ''solution follows'' really are out-of-place in an article. --[[User:Jb-adder|JB Adder]] | [[User talk:Jb-adder|Talk]] 04:01, July 18, 2005 (UTC)

*'''Note''' There is a discussion now going on at [[Template talk:Magic-spoiler]] about whether this template (assuming it is kept, as now seems likely to me) should retain its current image or be just a line of text. Anyone intersted in this matter, please join that discussion, so that a proper consensus can form. So far exactly two people have expressed views, one for and one against the image. [[User:DESiegel|DES]] 18:10, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

*'''Keep''' None of the proposed alternatives seem to appropriately work. -- [[User:Krash|Krash]] 15:06, 20 July 2005 (UTC)

*'''Keep''' for the same reasons everybody else has cited. &mdash; [[User:The Storm Surfer|The Storm Surfer]] 17:45, 20 July 2005 (UTC)

*'''Keep''' for the same reasons. --[[User:UrmasU|U.U.]] 08:21, July 21, 2005 (UTC)

*'''Keep'''. This was my first time seeing the template (on [[billet reading]]) and it was what I expected. Magic secrets are somewhere between plot spoilers and solutions; the secret is only a "solution" for those who were exclusively looking at it as an unsolved puzzle to begin with. I think the wording makes sense. --[[User:Closeapple|Closeapple]] 10:43, 21 July 2005 (UTC)

Consider adding any templates you nominate to your watchlist. This will help ensure that your nomination notice is not mistakenly or deliberately removed.

====[[Template:Portal skeleton]]====

This uses an old standard for creating a Wikiportal.A new template has replaced it {{tl|box portal skeleton}} but sometime people still use this old one.[[User:Trevor macinnis|Trevor macinnis]] 03:39, 16 July 2005 (UTC)

*'''Query?''' Since {{tl|box portal skeleton}} doesn't actually seem to be in use presently, is there some reason why you don't copy the new template contents over the old template? [[User:Dragons flight|Dragons flight]] 05:03, July 16, 2005 (UTC)

*'''copy box portal skeleton to portal skeleton and redirect''' --[[User:MarSch|MarSch]] 12:33, 16 July 2005 (UTC)

*Ok, I thought that the instructions on [[Wikipedia:Wikiportal]] were specific enough that people would use "box portal" instead of "portal" skeleton (several prominent pages now do, including some newly created ones), and these instuctions will probably need to be changed, but I support '''copy box portal skeleton to portal skeleton and redirect''' [[User:Trevor macinnis|Trevor macinnis]] 16:11, 16 July 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete''' this one, '''Rename''' the other to not involve the skeleton as the name is misleading. Make it a prototype instead. [[User:Radiant!|R]][[User_talk:Radiant!|adiant]][[meta:mergist|_<font color="orange">&gt;|&lt;</font>]] 08:23, July 17, 2005 (UTC)

**what name do you suggest? --[[User:MarSch|MarSch]] 07:34, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

***Portal prototype. [[User:Radiant!|R]][[User_talk:Radiant!|adiant]][[meta:mergist|_<font color="orange">&gt;|&lt;</font>]] 09:47, July 18, 2005 (UTC)

=== After nominating: Notify interested projects and editors ===

====[[Template:User la]]====

While it is sufficient to list a template for discussion at TfD, nominators and others sometimes want to attract more attention from and participation by informed editors. All such efforts must comply with [[WP:CANVASS|Wikipedia's guideline against biased canvassing]].

I didn't know there were any native speakers of Latin since about 500 years ago? [[User:Luigi30]] ([[User_talk:Luigi30|&Tau;&alpha;&lambda;&kappa;]]) 02:04, 16 July 2005 (UTC)

*'''keep''', 2 users apparently do. --[[User:MarSch|MarSch]] 12:30, 16 July 2005 (UTC)

:Uh, no. Not natively, that's not possible. They might be la-3, perhaps. -[[User:Splash|Splash]] 22:54, 16 July 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete''' impossible. -[[User:Splash|Splash]] 22:54, 16 July 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete or reformat''' Haha... sorry... I updated this this morning and assumed that "naturaliter" implied fluency in written and spoken Latin, since my fluency in German is from years living in Germany, but again I'm not a "Muttersprache" in the strict sense, moving there as a teenager. Yet since vulgar Latin has degenerated into the Romance languages, and I am not fluent in vulgar Latin, I'll change it without complaint!

To encourage participation by less experienced editors, avoid Wikipedia-specific abbreviations in the messages you leave about the discussion, link to any relevant policies or guidelines, and link to the TfD discussion page itself. If you are recommending that a template be speedily deleted, please give the [[Wikipedia:Criteria for speedy deletion|criterion]] that it meets.

And just a correction, there have been no native speakers of the Latin we know and write in for probably over 1000 years. Evidence suggests the language was deteriorating even in the second century AD! (And with the Germanic invasions and such, from the 6th to 11th centuries it split into French, Italian, etc.)

[[User:Amicuspublilius|Amicuspublilius]] 04:08, 17 July 2005 (UTC)

*'''Delete''' post haste; the relevant category was CFD'ed a couple of weeks ago, no point in repeating the debate. [[User:Radiant!|R]][[User_talk:Radiant!|adiant]][[meta:mergist|_<font color="orange">&gt;|&lt;</font>]] 08:23, July 17, 2005 (UTC)

*<b>Keep.</b> Being able to use it like a native speaker is quite possibile, though difficult. [[User:Almafeta|Almafeta]] 12:59, 17 July 2005 (UTC)

*'''Comment.''' [[Wikipedia:Babel]] says to use '''la''' "if you're a native speaker or have a grasp of the language comparable to a native speaker", which seems possible to achieve. -- [[User:Jitse Niesen|Jitse Niesen]] ([[User talk:Jitse Niesen|talk]]) 13:22, 17 July 2005 (UTC)

**[[Wikipedia:Babel]] seems to be a bit inconsistent. The list gives levels 1, 2, 3 and native but the example given immediately below makes reference to a level 4. {{tl|User en-4}} states "''This user speaks English at a near-native level.''" which would seem to cover the "comparable to a native speaker" sentence currently mentioned in the native level. --[[User:TheParanoidOne|TheParanoidOne]] 18:20, 17 July 2005 (UTC)

*** Not necessarily. Someone whose understanding of the language is NEAR that of a native speaker may know the grammar, syntax, and vocabulary perfectly but may not necessarily get the full meaning of various idioms and cultural references, while a native speaker or someone whose understanding of the languages is that of a native speaker would. [[User:Kmweber|Kurt Weber]] 19:31, 17 July 2005 (UTC)

*'''Keep''' Jitse Niesen is right...it doesn't require that someone be a native speaker, just that he have an understanding of the language equivalent to that of a native speaker. [[User:Kmweber|Kurt Weber]] 18:04, 17 July 2005 (UTC)

*'''Keep''' Latin is not a dead language. It is spoken in Homilies, and official documents of the Roman Catholic Church. As the official language of the Vatican, a city and independent state - it is possible to be a native speaker of Latin (OK, I can your point, but I still think it should be kept). [[User:Oliverkeenan|Oliver Keenan]] 21:54, July 17, 2005 (UTC)

*'''Keep'''. Why bother deleting it? I think that deleting any part of Wikipedia that's obviously "symmetric" will only lead to its re-creation. {{tl|User en}} exists, so {{tl|User la}} should too. If nobody uses it, it will remain unused. But if it's deleted, somebody will come along next week and say, "Aha! {{tl|User la}} doesn't exist yet! I'd better create it," and we'll repeat this whole process. --[[User:Quuxplusone|Quuxplusone]] 17:08, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

*'''Conservamus hunc''' [[User:TShilo12|Tomer]] ^{<font size=-1 color=129DBC>[[User talk:TShilo12|TALK]]</font>} 06:58, July 19, 2005 (UTC)

*'''Comment'''--one we ''should'' probably try to get rid of is "Native Speaker of Gothic" ~ [[User:Dpr|Dpr]] 05:51, 20 July 2005 (UTC)

*'''Keep'''. Utterly harmless. If we accept "native equivalent" for other languages, why not for this one also? There are people in this world who use Latin as a working language; what a boon it would be to us if Wikipedia caught on in [[.va]].--[[User:Pharos|Pharos]] 06:32, 20 July 2005 (UTC)

*'''Keep'''. [[User:Jdforrester|James F.]] [[User_talk:Jdforrester|(talk)]] 02:31, 21 July 2005 (UTC)

* '''Notifying related WikiProjects:''' [[WP:WikiProject|WikiProjects]] are groups of editors that are interested in a particular subject or type of editing. If the article is within the scope of one or more WikiProjects, they may welcome a brief, neutral note on their project's talk page(s) about the TfD. You can use {{Tls|Tfd notice}} for this. Tagging the nominated template's talk page with a relevant Wikiproject's banner will result in the template being listed in that project's ''[[WP:AALERTS|Article Alerts]]'' automatically, if they are [[Wikipedia:Article_alerts/Subscription_list|subscribed to the system]]. For instance, tagging a template with {{tl|WikiProject Physics}} will list the discussion in [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Physics/Article alerts]].

<!-- New listings *DO NOT* go here; please read the instructions. -->

* '''Notifying main contributors:''' While not required, it is generally considered courteous to notify the creator and any main contributors of the template and its talk page that you are nominating for discussion. To find the creator and main contributors, look in the [[Help:Page history|page history]] or [[Help:Talk page|talk page]].

At this point, no further action is necessary on your part. Sometime after seven days have passed, someone other than you will either close the discussion or, if needed, "[[WP:RELIST|relist]]" it for another seven days of discussion. If the nomination is successful, it will be moved to the [[WP:TFDH|Holding Cell]] until the change is implemented. There is no requirement for nominators to be part of the implementation process, but they are allowed to if they so wish.

==Holding Cell==

:''Move templates to the appropriate subsection '''here''' to prepare to delete '''if''' process guidelines are met. Anything listed here or below should have its discussion moved to [[Wikipedia:Templates for deletion/Log]].''

==Discussion==

*[[Template:Skinheadz]] (5d, 0k)

Anyone can join the discussion, but please understand the [[WP:deletion policy|deletion policy]] and explain your reasoning.

*[[Template:Nationalist Movement]] (5d, 0k)

*[[Template:Richard Barrett]] (5d, 0k)

*[[Template:Phi Delta Theta infobox]] (2d, 0k, deprecated for generic frat infobox)

*[[Template:Lame edit war]] (7d, 2k)

*[[Template:Current sports]] (4d, 0k)

*[[Template:^]] (7d, 0k)

*[[:Template:Structure]] (7d, 1k)

*[[Template:Quantity]] (9d, 1k)

People will sometimes also recommend '''[[Wikipedia:Template substitution|subst]]''', '''subst and delete''', or similar. This means they think the template text should be "[[Hard coding|hard-coded]]" into the articles that are currently using it. Depending on the content, the template itself may then be deleted; if preserving the edit history for attribution is desirable, it may be [[Wikipedia:History merging|history-merged]] with the target article or moved to mainspace and redirected.

===To orphan===

:''These templates need to be deleted, but may still be in use on some pages. Somebody (it doesn't need to be an admin, anyone can do it) should fix and/or remove significant usages from pages so that they can be deleted. Note that simple references to them from Talk: pages need not (and in fact should not) be removed.''

Templates are rarely orphaned—that is, removed from pages that transclude them—before the discussion is closed. A list of open discussions eligible for closure can be found at [[Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Old unclosed discussions]].

(none at this time)

===To convertClosing todiscussion category===

Administrators should read the [[Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Closing instructions|closing instructions]] before closing a nomination. Note that [[WP:XFDcloser]] semi-automates this process and ensures all of the appropriate steps are taken.

:''Templates for which the consensus is that they ought to be converted to categories get put here until the conversion is completed.''

</div>

*[[Template:Worldperks]] (5d, 1k, should be ''listified'')

*[[Template:Sailing ship elements]] will not be deleted, but it was suggested that a category be also created for the articles listed here.

**Created [[:Category:Sailing ship elements]], and added all listed items. Not sure what to do with template. Remove from articles? <font color=#FF0033>[[Special:Contributions/Who|&infin;]]</font>[[User:Who|Who]][[User talk:Who|<font color=#00Ff00>?</font><font color=#FF00FF>&iquest;</font><font color=#0033FF>?</font>]] 09:44, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

== Current discussions ==

===Ready to delete===

{{Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/{{ #time: Y F j }}}}

:''Templates for which consensus to delete has been reached, have been orphaned, and the discussion logged to [[Wikipedia:Templates for deletion/Log/Deleted]], can be listed here for an admin to delete.''

{{Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/{{ #time: Y F j | -1 days }}}}

{{Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/{{ #time: Y F j | -2 days }}}}

{{Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/{{ #time: Y F j | -3 days }}}}

{{Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/{{ #time: Y F j | -4 days }}}}

{{Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/{{ #time: Y F j | -5 days }}}}

{{Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/{{ #time: Y F j | -6 days }}}}

{{Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/{{ #time: Y F j | -7 days }}}}

== Old discussions ==

*[[Template:Judaism-Attention]] (6d, 1k)

{{#invoke:XfD old|transclude}}

*[[Template:Kubrick]] (12 catify/del, 8 keep)

*[[Template:Steven Spielberg's films]] (12 catify/del, 8 keep)

*[[Template:Alfred Hitchcock's films]] (12 catify/del, 8 keep)

*[[Template:(disambiguation)]] (11d, 3k; voting suggests to put this layout on existing {{tl|disambig}})

**someone needs to unprotect the latter--[[User:MarSch|MarSch]] 10:08, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)

***Layout copied over {{tl|disambig}}. [[User:Radiant!|R]][[User_talk:Radiant!|adiant]][[meta:mergist|_<font color="orange">&gt;|&lt;</font>]] June 28, 2005 07:55 (UTC)

****And reverted :( --[[User:MarSch|MarSch]] 28 June 2005 14:15 (UTC)

*****'''I've created a poll at [[Template talk:disambig]]. Please vote there --[[User:MarSch|MarSch]] 28 June 2005 15:01 (UTC)'''

******obnoxified --[[User:MarSch|MarSch]] 1 July 2005 13:52 (UTC)

== Completed discussions ==

*[[Template:swwiki]] (6d, 1k)

A list of completed discussions that still require action taken on the template(s) — for example, a merge between two infoboxes — can be found at [[Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Holding cell|the "Holding Cell"]].

*[[Template:WAEduGov]] (4d, 0k)-[[User:Splash|Splash]] 9 July 2005 03:18 (UTC)

*[[Template:CONTROVERSIAL TOPIC - please read the talk page discussion before making substantial changes]] (9d, 1k). Also applies to [[Template:Controversial note]] which just transcludes this template. -[[User:Splash|Splash]] 17:05, 17 July 2005 (UTC)

*[[Template:Sane]] and [[Template:SANE]] (4d, 0k) -[[User:Splash|Splash]] 17:15, 17 July 2005 (UTC)

*[[Template:Alert]] (4d, 2 redir to {{tl|comment}}) -[[User:Splash|Splash]] 17:15, 17 July 2005 (UTC)

*[[Template:Parliament Malaysia Seats]] (3d, 0k) -[[User:Splash|Splash]] 17:15, 17 July 2005 (UTC)

*[[Template:Revertwarinprogress]] (6d, 1k) -[[User:Splash|Splash]] 17:15, 17 July 2005 (UTC)

*[[Template:RWIP]] (6d, 1k) -[[User:Splash|Splash]] 17:15, 17 July 2005 (UTC)

*[[Template:Sisterprojects]] (2.5d, 0k) -[[User:Splash|Splash]] 17:31, 17 July 2005 (UTC)

*[[Template:Siterprojects]] (5d, 0k) -[[User:Splash|Splash]] 17:31, 17 July 2005 (UTC)

*[[Template:Live]] (10d, 5k, suggested redirecting to {{tl|current}}) -[[User:Splash|Splash]] 17:31, 17 July 2005 (UTC)

*[[Template:Survey]] (3d, 2u'fy, 0k - consider userfy) &mdash;[[User:Cryptic|Cryptic]] [[User talk:Cryptic|(talk)]] 11:51, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

*[[Template:0/5]] [[Template:0.5/5|0.5/5]] [[Template:1/5|1/5]] [[Template:1.5/5|1.5/5]] [[Template:2/5|2/5]] [[Template:2.5/5|2.5/5]] [[Template:3/5|3/5]] [[Template:3.5/5|3.5/5]] [[Template:4/5|4/5]] [[Template:4.5/5|4.5/5]] [[Template:5/5|5/5]] (3d, including creator, 0k)

For an index of all old and archived discussions, see [[Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/Archives]].

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[[Category:Non-talk pages with subpages that are automatically signed]]

[[Category:Wikipedia deletion|Templates for deletion]]

[[nlCategory:Wikipedia:Te verwijderendeletion|Templates for sjablonendiscussion]]

[[Category:Wikipedia template administration|Templates for discussion]]

[[Category:Wikipedia discussion]]