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{{Article history
Because of their length, the previous discussions on this page have been archived.
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'''Previous discussions:'''
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*[[Talk:Iglesia ni Cristo/archive053005|Archive 1 (3 January 2005 to 30 April 2005)]]:
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*[[Talk:Iglesia ni Cristo/archive061705|Archive 2 (30 April 2005 to 17 June 2005)]]:
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*[[Talk:Iglesia ni Cristo/Archive04|Archive 4 (23 June 2005 to 7 July 2005)]]:
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*[[Talk:Iglesia ni Cristo/Archive05|Archive 5 (next to start)]]:
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*[[Talk:Iglesia ni Cristo/Archive04#Tagalog INC article]]
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== Semi-protected edit request on 23 September 2024 ==
==Sources==
Sources are requested for the following so that the Disputed flag can be removed:<br>
;The reason for Felix Manalo's departure from his early church memberships.
I believe that this can be sourced from ''God's Message'' for July-September 1994. Can someone verify this and give the title of the article? &mdash;[[User:TheoClarke|Theo ]] [[User_talk:TheoClarke|(Talk)]] 17:20, 10 July 2005 (UTC)
:I know it was also covered in the 1993 "25 Years in the West" Issue.--[[User:Onlytofind|Onlytofind]] 01:13, 12 July 2005 (UTC)
;Church structure&mdash;essentially the roles within its organisation.
;Church beliefs and practices.
Each doctrine is written in a book that is published by the INC but is not available to all members of the church. Is there a publicly available source? &mdash;[[User:TheoClarke|Theo ]] [[User_talk:TheoClarke|(Talk)]] 17:20, 10 July 2005 (UTC)
:Not to my knowledge. They might be covered in a Pasugo article though, I'm not sure.--[[User:Onlytofind|Onlytofind]] 01:13, 12 July 2005 (UTC)
;Missionary activities
;The four internal organizations.
 
{{edit semi-protected|Iglesia ni Cristo|answered=yes}}
== Personal Comment Moved from main article ==
Please update the reference for the following source:
 
"5. Adriel Obar Meimban (1994). 'A Historical Analysis of the Iglesia ni Cristo: ''Cult'' in the Far East, Philippine Islands' (PDF)."
*''Note to the members of the Iglesia Ni Cristo: Brethren, Let us make sure that this article contains only the truth about the true church. This article is a good tool for missionary activities therefore let us not allow our detactors to use this site to belittle the Church of Christ.''
 
The original title of the book, as verified through the Wayback Machine, is:
This statement was written by {{user|207.233.11.90}} on the top of the INC article. Since it's a comment written for the editors of the article, I've moved it to where it belongs. --[[User:Lbmixpro|LBMixPro]][[User talk:Lbmixpro|<sup><span style="text-decoration: none;">(Speak on it!)</span></sup>]] 02:59, July 15, 2005 (UTC)
 
"A Historical Analysis of the Iglesia ni Cristo: ''Christianity'' in the Far East, Philippine Islands."
:[[Wikipedia:Welcome, newcomers|Welcome to Wikipedia]]. Wikipedia (or WP as it's sometimes called) has a set of rules and policies, which are made so not to belittle the church, any other subject on the site, nor this site in general. For all new editors to the article, please read [[Wikipedia:Policies and guidelines|WP site policies]]. Most importantly, [[WP:NPOV#Religion|this one]]. Any contribution which fits in the rules of Wikipedia are most welcome, as this article is edited by both supporters and opponents of INC. No matter what their view of the church is, everybody is bound by the [[WP:NPOV|Neutural Point of View]] and must realize that [[Wikipedia:What_Wikipedia_is_not#Wikipedia_is_not_a_soapbox|WP is not a tool for advocacy of any kind]]. Also, you may want to create a username for yourself by clicking the link in the top right hand corner, so you can be easily identified and have many more features than of an anonymous contributer. --[[User:Lbmixpro|LBMixPro]][[User talk:Lbmixpro|<sup><span style="text-decoration: none;">(Speak on it!)</span></sup>]] 03:30, July 15, 2005 (UTC) (updated 14:05, July 21, 2005 (UTC))
 
Here is the archived link for reference: https://web.archive.org/web/20110826002343/http://repository.cc.sophia.ac.jp/dspace/bitstream/123456789/5124/1/200000079942_000012000_95.pdf
::Browsing the edit history of this article, it seems many INC members take this view towards the article. I'm especially concerned about the lack of neutrality towards other religions from their edits.--[[User:Ironbrew|Ironbrew]] 08:46, 19 July 2005 (UTC)
 
I propose correcting the reference to reflect the accurate title. [[User:Tagaluto|Tagaluto]] ([[User talk:Tagaluto|talk]]) 00:30, 23 September 2024 (UTC)
 
:Fixed citation. Regards. [[User:Sanglahi86|Sanglahi86]] ([[User talk:Sanglahi86|talk]]) 03:56, 23 September 2024 (UTC)
:::Can you tell us which parts of the article you feel are particularly biased, so we can tackle down the issues? --[[User:Lbmixpro|LBMixPro]][[User talk:Lbmixpro|<sup><span style="text-decoration: none;">(Speak on it!)</span></sup>]] 08:39, July 20, 2005 (UTC)
::::I think the major issues have been hammered out already, but it seems the same lady or gentleman who wrote the above POV comment is beginning to insert their personal opinion into this and other INC-related pages as seen by their edits to this and Eduardo Manalo.--[[User:Ironbrew|Ironbrew]] 04:20, 22 July 2005 (UTC)
::::The other side of the coin is that they are preventing you from inserting your personal opinion to the said articles.
:::::You have removed contributions with succinct evidence and proof because it seems that you are afraid of any statement which portrays the INC in an unfavourable light, no matter how factual it is. You can either abide by NPOV or have your malicious edits reverted.--[[User:Ironbrew|Ironbrew]] 18:33, 23 July 2005 (UTC)
:::::I'm afraid I'll have to agree with whoever's reverting Ironbrew's edit. Not for POV pushing, which I believe the edit is perfectly NPOV, since it states ''why'' religious groups critisize INC, but for the reason of not having a sufficient reference link. The disputed text here is "''<nowiki>with the INC holding the belief that it has the sole authority from God to interpret and preach the Bible, and that other religions do not.[http://student631.tripod.com/biblestudentspage/id29.html]</nowiki>''"
But one problem remains. The link referenced shows proof about INC's belief of sole authority, but it ''doesn't'' show proof of ''why it is critisized.''Until you provide a reference link which actually cites ''critisism'' for sole authority, I'll have to assume it as [[WP:NOR|original research]] or personal opinion, sorry. --[[User:Lbmixpro|LBMixPro]][[User talk:Lbmixpro|<sup><span style="text-decoration: none;">(Speak on it!)</span></sup>]] 01:27, July 24, 2005 (UTC)
 
[[File:Pictogram voting wait.svg|20px|link=|alt=]] '''Already done'''<!-- Template:ESp --> [[User:PianoDan|PianoDan]] ([[User talk:PianoDan|talk]]) 05:41, 23 September 2024 (UTC)
==Forum links==
I removed the following from the main article:
*''Iglesia ni Cristo in a nutshell (Doctrines exposed) - Postings by ''Cultic Research'' in 2002/2003 on an INC forum.''
:[http://www.network54.com/Forum/message?forumid=70213&messageid=1026252678 1] [http://www.network54.com/Forum/message?forumid=70213&messageid=1026324020 2] [http://www.network54.com/Forum/message?forumid=70213&messageid=1027009581 3] [http://www.network54.com/Forum/message?forumid=70213&messageid=1028060947 4] [http://www.network54.com/Forum/message?forumid=70213&messageid=1028667258 5] [http://www.network54.com/Forum/message?forumid=70213&messageid=1029361399 6] [http://www.network54.com/Forum/message?forumid=70213&messageid=1029533764 7] [http://www.network54.com/Forum/message?forumid=70213&messageid=1029956744 8] [http://www.network54.com/Forum/message?forumid=70213&messageid=1029875190 9] 10[http://www.network54.com/Forum/message?forumid=70213&messageid=1030652399 (1)] [http://www.network54.com/Forum/message?forumid=70213&messageid=1031429301 (2)] [http://www.network54.com/Forum/message?forumid=70213&messageid=1031781903 (3)] [http://www.network54.com/Forum/message?forumid=70213&messageid=1032396374 11] 12[http://www.network54.com/Forum/message?forumid=70213&messageid=1032638943 (1)] [http://www.network54.com/Forum/message?forumid=70213&messageid=1032976378 (2)] 13[http://www.network54.com/Forum/message?forumid=70213&messageid=1032994478 (1)] [http://www.network54.com/Forum/message?forumid=70213&messageid=1033151658 (2)] [http://www.network54.com/Forum/message?forumid=70213&messageid=1033770567 14] [http://www.network54.com/Forum/message?forumid=70213&messageid=1034203351 15] [http://www.network54.com/Forum/message?forumid=70213&messageid=1036708772 16] 17[http://www.network54.com/Forum/message?forumid=70213&messageid=1040757380 (1)] [http://www.network54.com/Forum/message?forumid=70213&messageid=1046124296 (2)] [http://www.network54.com/Forum/message?forumid=70213&messageid=1046720614 (3)] 18[http://www.network54.com/Forum/message?forumid=70213&messageid=1047936469 (1)] [http://www.network54.com/Forum/message?forumid=70213&messageid=1048542713 (2)] [http://www.network54.com/Forum/message?forumid=70213&messageid=1048796337 (3)] 19[http://www.network54.com/Forum/message?forumid=70213&messageid=1051568522 (1)] [http://www.network54.com/Forum/message?forumid=70213&messageid=1051914699 (2)] [http://www.network54.com/Forum/message?forumid=70213&messageid=1052173693 (3)] 20[http://www.network54.com/Forum/message?forumid=70213&messageid=1053375745 (1)] [http://www.network54.com/Forum/message?forumid=70213&messageid=1054326233 (2)] 21[http://www.network54.com/Forum/message?forumid=70213&messageid=1054746505 (1)] [http://www.network54.com/Forum/message?forumid=70213&messageid=1054766072 (2)] 22[http://www.network54.com/Forum/message?forumid=70213&messageid=1055799566 (1)] [http://www.network54.com/Forum/message?forumid=70213&messageid=1056047298 (2)] [http://www.network54.com/Forum/message?forumid=70213&messageid=1056224188 (3)] 23[http://www.network54.com/Forum/message?forumid=70213&messageid=1057348541 (1)] [http://www.network54.com/Forum/message?forumid=70213&messageid=1058394307 (2)] 24[http://www.network54.com/Forum/message?forumid=70213&messageid=1059165417 (1)] [http://www.network54.com/Forum/message?forumid=70213&messageid=1060040448 (2)] 25[http://www.network54.com/Forum/message?forumid=70213&messageid=1065652079 (1)] [http://www.network54.com/Forum/message?forumid=70213&messageid=1065741260 (2)]
 
== Death of Gold Dagal ==
because it feels like just too much. Is there some way that this can be consolidated into a single source? &mdash;[[User:TheoClarke|Theo ]] [[User_talk:TheoClarke|(Talk)]] 19:06, 17 July 2005 (UTC)
 
This should be added under controversies.
==An outsider's comment==
 
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_Dagal 08:16, 24 April 2025 (UTC)
I am not familiar with the INC, and hadn't heard of it before reading this article. I have to say that the introduction is quite strange and not particularly clear.
*The intro indicates that most notable thing about the INC is the architecture of it's church. Is that correct?
*Did Felix Manalo found the INC? If so, the intro should state it.
* I don't what to say about the grammar of this sentence: ''"It claims to be the reestablishment in the last days of the first church established by Jesus through fulfillment of biblical prophecies."''
* ''"It is a Christian church that does not accept the doctrine of the Trinity."'' Why is this in the intro?
--[[User:Konrad West|K.]] 05:38, 23 July 2005 (UTC)
 
== Semi-protected edit request on 16 July 2025 ==
From a physical perspective, yes. But from a religious standpoint, they're mostly viewed in a way which violates NPOV. According to members, Manalo isn't the founder, but [[Jesus]] is, hence the name "Church of ''Christ''". Which brings us to your next question... A clearer way to say the above could be: INC claims to have been the reestablshment of the original Church, ran by Jesus; which is the fulfillment of prophecies based around the [[Revealation]]. The reason why that sentence about the trinity is in the intro paragraph because it's a distinguishing feature that sets itself apart from most Christian chruches. --[[User:Lbmixpro|LBMixPro]][[User talk:Lbmixpro|<sup><span style="text-decoration: none;">(Speak on it!)</span></sup>]]
 
{{Edit semi-protected|Iglesia ni Cristo|answered=yes}}
I have taken the suggestion of [[User:Lbmixpro|LBMixPro]] and recast that confusing sentence. &mdash;[[User:TheoClarke|Theo ]] [[User_talk:TheoClarke|(Talk)]] 10:45, 23 July 2005 (UTC)
Hello! I would just like to make one incorrect mistake in this article. The mistake that I would request to fix is the part where is reads "founded by Felix Manalo", just to let you know; this Church believes that Jesus Christ founded the Church, and was RESTORED by Felix Manalo.
Another thing I would like to edit is that the name is not "Iglesia ni Cristo", its "Iglesia Ni Cristo" (uppercase N in the 'ni'), and Church of Christ, to Church Of Christ.
 
EDIT 1: '''Change the part where it says "FOUNDED BY FELIX MANALO" to "FOUNDED BY JESUS CHRIST AND RESTORED BY FELIX MANALO'''
:I see your point about Manalo founding the church. But saying "it was registered" sounds like it was operating in the Philipines prior to that, which doesn't seem to be the case. It needs to be worded differently.
EDIT 2: '''Change the title of the article and any other mentions where it says "Iglesia ni Cristo / Church of Christ" to "Iglesia Ni Cristo / Church Of Christ'''
:I am amazed that the spires are most notable thing. I've never heard of a church being notable for it's spires! Seriously though, what source says that it is noted for the spires? --[[User:Konrad West|K.]] 11:06, 23 July 2005 (UTC)
 
::Well, if you look at the [http://goasia.about.com/od/philippines/a/INC.htm about.com entry about INC], it says this: ''"One way to recognize them is that they are built to be aerodynamic and include structures on the sides of the church building that could be mistake for a rocket; INC members believe that a time will comes when Christ removes his church from the earth for a period of time during which non-believers will suffer tribulation -- and when they say "remove his church" they mean that the actual building will take off into the air and up into heaven, and that the believers who are inside at the time will go with it..."'' So from a physical standpoint, in a sense you only know about INC just by looking at the outside of a chapel, it is noted by its spires. It's other source of noteritey is the anti-NPOV perception of INC being a cult. --[[User:Lbmixpro|LBMixPro]][[User talk:Lbmixpro|<sup><span style="text-decoration: none;">(Speak on it!)</span></sup>]] 01:06, July 24, 2005 (UTC)
Thank you! [[User:In4m4w(353)|In4m4w(353)]] ([[User talk:In4m4w(353)|talk]]) 01:35, 16 July 2025 (UTC)
::: Checking back in - hi [[User:Konrad West|K.]]! - it's neo-Gothic architecture, which has spires, and there are many other churches elsewhere with similar designs. That may well be uncommon in the Philippines, but the explanation about aerodynamics looks absolute tosh to me. About.com is far less accountable for its contents than Wikipedia. [[User:Tearlach|Tearlach]] 22:51, 24 July 2005 (UTC)
:{{Not done}}: please provide [[Wikipedia:Reliable sources|reliable sources]] that support the change you want to be made.<!-- Template:ESp --> <span style="background:#39FF14;padding:4px;border-radius:.3em;">[[User:Dahawk04|<b style="color:#fff">Dahawk04</b>]]</span> <span style="background:#1F51FF;padding:4px;border-radius:.3em;">[[User talk:Dahawk04|<b style="color:#fff">Talk 💬</b>]]</span> 02:24, 16 July 2025 (UTC)
* I have some comments with the new intro: It says "in fulfillment of prophecies in the Book of Revelation". The biblical prophecies that the INC cites is not limited to the Book of Revelations, "biblical prophecies", as it was before, is quite enough. [[User:Ealva|Ealva]] 22:57, 24 July 2005 (UTC)
::'''Comment''' also this change is from an INC-POV, virtually most Christian churches considers Jesus Christ as its founder but consensus (including secular sources) states Felix Manalo is the founder of the INC. Capitalization of prepositions "of" and "ni" is also non-standard. If In4m4w(353) posts a verifiable source that it is the legal name/trademark of the church to capitalize the preposition. Then it can be noted in the lead or somewhere ''once''. [[User:Hariboneagle927|Hariboneagle927]] ([[User talk:Hariboneagle927|talk]]) 09:40, 16 July 2025 (UTC)
 
== Sources for the Controversy section ==
 
I’ve noticed that nearly all of the material in the Controversy section is drawn from [[Rappler]] (particularly pieces by Katerina Francisco). While Rappler is a news website, Wikipedia’s sourcing guidelines [[WP:RS]] ask for multiple, independent, high-quality sources when covering potentially contentious or critical claims. Rappler itself has been the subject of reliability discussions (see [[Rappler]]), and reliance on a single outlet can give undue weight [[WP:UNDUE]] or risk [[NPOV]] issues.
Questions for the group:
Can anyone point to additional reliable coverage of these controversies?
If no other sources are available, should we consider trimming or summarizing this section more neutrally until further references surface?
Should we add {{more citations}} or {{undue}} tags to the section?
I’m not advocating deletion of well-sourced material, but I’d like to be sure we’re meeting WP:VERIFY and WP:WEIGHT. Thoughts? — —[[User:Drakegone|Drakegone]] ([[User talk:Drakegone|talk]]) 19:45, 1 August 2025 (UTC)
:Absolutely not. The assertion that ''Rappler'' is unreliable hinges on claims of the Duterte government—itself certainly far from a reliable source. If you could point out an instance where a consensus of Wikipedia editors questioned the reliability of ''Rappler'', that would be different. Best, ~ [[User:Pbritti|Pbritti]] ([[User talk:Pbritti|talk]]) 20:04, 1 August 2025 (UTC)