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===July 28===
====[[:Category:Cities in Iceland]]====
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:''The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the category above. <span style="color:red;">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this page.''
The result of the debate was '''merge''' --[[User:Kbdank71|Kbdank71]] 14:22, 4 August 2005 (UTC)
'City' is a major misnomer for almost any settlement in Iceland. Reykjavík, yes, Akureyri, maybe, but Reykjahlíð and most others have tiny populations. Therefore, I suggest '''renaming''' the category to [[:Category:Towns and villages in Iceland]]. [[User:Worldtraveller|Worldtraveller]] 23:12, 28 July 2005 (UTC)
*'''Comment:''' Size is surely irrelevant. If the places are officially designated cities, they should be categorised as such. So... what is their official designation? [[User:Grutness|Grutness]]...<small>''[[User_talk:Grutness|<span style="color:green;">wha?</span>]]''</small> 08:08, 29 July 2005 (UTC)
*I am certain the they wouldn't be officially designated cities. For example [[Vík í Mýrdal]] is described [http://www.nat.is/travelguideeng/vik.htm here] as a hamlet, [[Egilsstaðir]] [http://www.travelnet.is/JKL/journey/sv_al/egilsstadir_map_town.htm here] as a town. [http://www.iceland.is/people-and-society/People/ This page] says that in 1998 there were 30 towns and 94 other municipalities, no figure for cities so maybe even Reykjavík is just a big town... [[User:Worldtraveller|Worldtraveller]] 09:28, 29 July 2005 (UTC)
*'''Keep''' for consistency. [[User:Radiant!|R]][[User_talk:Radiant!|adiant]][[meta:mergist|_<span style="color:orange;">>|<</span>]] 16:15, July 29, 2005 (UTC)
*'''Rename'''. I think these oddly-named categories we have all over the place stem from the U.S. custom of calling almost anything a city (e.g. [[Tenney, Minnesota]] and thousands of others). — [[User:Trilobite|Trilobite]] ([[User_talk:Trilobite|Talk]]) 23:47, 29 July 2005 (UTC)
*'''Merge''' with [[:Category:Settlements of Iceland]] which we have already. --[[User:Biekko|Bjarki]] 13:20, 30 July 2005 (UTC)
*'''Merge''' as per Bjarki (he is from Iceland, btw). [[User:Pavel Vozenilek|Pavel Vozenilek]] 18:09, 30 July 2005 (UTC)
*'''Merge''' per Bjarki (being from Iceland not relevant). [[User:Variable|siafu]] 14:12, 2 August 2005 (UTC)
*'''Merge''' as per Bjarki or '''rename''' to "Communities ..." or "Municipalities ..." per [[User:Maurreen|Maurreen]]'s suggestion under [[Wikipedia:Categories_for_deletion/Log/2005_August_2#Category:Cities_in_Greenland|Cities in Greenland]] above. — [[User:SebastianHelm|Sebastian]] [[User_talk:SebastianHelm|(talk)]] 19:21, August 2, 2005 (UTC)
*:I'd prefer "settlements" out of these options, although it should probably be "Settlements in..." and not "Settlements of Iceland". "Communities" might work but municipalities are a different thing altogether, a single municipality may include several towns and villages or none at all, Greenland's largest municipalities are larger in area than some European countries. Also, I think these votes (Faroes, Greenland and Iceland) should be merged for consistency.--[[User:Biekko|Bjarki]] 13:39, 3 August 2005 (UTC)
:''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <span style="color:red;">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this page.''</div>
====[[:Category:Obscene image candidates for speedy deletion]] and [[:Category:Obscene images]]====
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:''The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the category above. <span style="color:red;">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this page.''
The result of the debate was '''delete''' --[[User:Kbdank71|Kbdank71]] 14:19, 4 August 2005 (UTC)
Created to go along with [[Wikipedia:Obscene image]], which appears to be a proposed policy that has only been edited by one user. "Obscene" is, of course, extremely subjective, and the CSD-related category and the policy page [[WP:CSD#Images/Media|incorrectly]] state that images are speediable solely for being "obscene." [[WP:NOT#Wikipedia is not censored for the protection of minors|Wikipedia is not censored for the protection of minors]]. I'm guessing that ''some'' of these images ought to end up at IfD, but some of them may be used in articles. [[User:Android79|<span style="color:green;">android</span>]][[User talk:Android79|<span style="color:purple;">79</span>]] 22:10, July 28, 2005 (UTC)
*I removed all of the images in [[:Category:Obscene image candidates for speedy deletion]] from the category. All but four of them were linked solely from [[User:Evil Monkey/Nudity]]. Only after de-populating the category did I realize that this action was probably out of process. For this I apologize, and I will revert the de-population if requested, but I feel it is in our best interests that the bogus speedy deletion notices stay off of these images. An administrator could inadvertantly delete one of these images, and it could give users the wrong impression that Wikipedia is censored. [[User:Android79|<span style="color:green;">android</span>]][[User talk:Android79|<span style="color:purple;">79</span>]] 22:35, July 28, 2005 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' no rename. I oppose the proposal, and have noted such on its talk page. If there needs to be a category created at the time of proposal implementation, then it can be recreated. As of now, it is an empty directory. However, I did see the images listed there originally, and only seen one that was remotely obscene. Naked yoga is not obscene, nor are nude images. [[Special:Contributions/Who|<span style="color:#FF0033;">∞</span>]][[User:Who|Who]][[User talk:Who|<span style="color:#00Ff00;">?</span><span style="color:#FF00FF;">¿</span><span style="color:#0033FF;">?</span>]] 22:42, 28 July 2005 (UTC)
:'''Comment''' also see [[Wikipedia:Templates_for_deletion#.5B.5BTemplate:Speedyimage.5D.5D|this TFD]]. [[Special:Contributions/Who|<span style="color:#FF0033;">∞</span>]][[User:Who|Who]][[User talk:Who|<span style="color:#00Ff00;">?</span><span style="color:#FF00FF;">¿</span><span style="color:#0033FF;">?</span>]] 23:12, 28 July 2005 (UTC)
*'''Delete'''. As to the depopulation question, well, it is perfectly usual practise to remove speedy tags from things that do not qualify. Admittedly, it is usual to take them somewhere else, but since [[Wikipedia is not a bureaucracy]], to take them all to IfD would have been unnecessary. -[[User:Splash|Splash]] 23:49, 28 July 2005 (UTC)
**Many of the images in question already had IfD or copyvio tags on them as well as the bogus speedy tags. Most of them should probably be deleted, as they are merely present in a single user's gallery of nudity and serve no other purpose. [[User:Android79|<span style="color:green;">android</span>]][[User talk:Android79|<span style="color:purple;">79</span>]] 23:54, July 28, 2005 (UTC)
***Yeah, thanks, I just discovered that. I was looking through IfD to oppose the deletion on censorship grounds, but most of them have copyvio problems it seems (which probably means they should go to [[WP:CP]] rather than IfD, but that's not relevant here). -[[User:Splash|Splash]] 00:26, 29 July 2005 (UTC)
*'''Delete'''. You had me at [[WP:NOT#Wikipedia is not censored for the protection of minors]]. [[User:Buffyg|Buffyg]] 01:08, 29 July 2005 (UTC)
*'''Delete'''. [[User:Evil Monkey|Evil Monkey]]∴[[User talk:Evil Monkey|Hello]] 01:34, 29 July 2005 (UTC)
*'''Delete''', [[User:Pavel Vozenilek|Pavel Vozenilek]] 23:37, 29 July 2005 (UTC)
:''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <span style="color:red;">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this page.''</div>
====[[:Category:Innocent people killed by police]]====
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The result of the debate was '''merge''' --[[User:Kbdank71|Kbdank71]] 14:13, 4 August 2005 (UTC)
Innocent is a subjective word in this context, better name for this catergory should be found. [[User:Jooler|Jooler]] 20:22, 28 July 2005 (UTC)
*<s>'''Delete'''</s> POV non-verifiable. [[Special:Contributions/Who|<span style="color:#FF0033;">∞</span>]][[User:Who|Who]][[User talk:Who|<span style="color:#00Ff00;">?</span><span style="color:#FF00FF;">¿</span><span style="color:#0033FF;">?</span>]] 22:44, 28 July 2005 (UTC)
::'''Merge''' [[:Category:Innocent people killed by police]] → [[:Category:People shot dead by police]]. [[Special:Contributions/Who|<span style="color:#FF0033;">∞</span>]][[User:Who|Who]][[User talk:Who|<span style="color:#00Ff00;">?</span><span style="color:#FF00FF;">¿</span><span style="color:#0033FF;">?</span>]] 21:38, 29 July 2005 (UTC)
*"Someone should improve it" is not helpful. Stop wasting our time. [[User:Mirror Vax|Mirror Vax]] 23:43, 28 July 2005 (UTC)
**Uh, that's what CfD is partly about. Working out how to improve things is best done by discussion. If you are short on time, you need not weigh yourself down by joining in. -[[User:Splash|Splash]] 23:49, 28 July 2005 (UTC)
***Discussion is done on talk pages. This is politics. [[User:Mirror Vax|Mirror Vax]] 23:59, 28 July 2005 (UTC)
***:I have to disagree with your statement here. We are here to improve things, not merely to delete them. Otherwise, we could just speedy everything that someone else already emptied. --[[User:Ssd|ssd]] 04:59, 1 August 2005 (UTC)
****In my experience, VFD/CFD is about deleting things, not improving them. I have no objection to aggressively recatagorizing articles (I do it myself). But I am careful to preserve useful information. CFD is about destroying (or censoring if you like) information that a majority of people who haunt this place determine, in a snap judgement, that they dislike. Reasoned discussion can't take place in such a hostile environment. [[User:Mirror Vax|Mirror Vax]] 06:12, 1 August 2005 (UTC)
*'''Comment'''. Innocence is not subjective. In most countries you are innocent until the moment you are proven guilty. Further, innocence is entirely verifiable as you just need to call up the relevant police authority/courthouse. However the cat does need a better name. I can't help thinking that we must already have [[:Category:People shot by police]], but apparently we do not. -[[User:Splash|Splash]] 23:49, 28 July 2005 (UTC)
*'''Keep'''. As Splash says, innocence is no more POV than guilty. You might argue that having an "Innocent people killed by police" cat but not "Guilty people killed by police" is biased, so we could create the latter, even though its members would probably not be notable for that reason alone. Seems fair? [[User:Agentsoo|Agentsoo]] 01:01, 29 July 2005 (UTC)
**You miss the point. If people are innocent until proven guilty, then by any definition there are NO guilty people shot at all. How many dead people are tried after their death and found guilty in a court of law? As I said "Innocent" '''in this context''' is subjective. - Furthermore this catergory used to contain [[James Ashley]] who was shot by Sussex Police during a drugs raid. He was an habitual criminal and drug dealer. What was he innocent or guilty of?. We now have [[:Category:People shot dead by police]], and so [[:Category:Innocent people killed by police]] should be removed. [[User:Jooler|Jooler]] 06:29, 29 July 2005 (UTC)
*'''Rename'''--[[User:Petaholmes|nixie]] 01:03, 29 July 2005 (UTC)
*'''Comment''' I se several problems here aside from the POV question. First what is police? Does intelligence agents, security forces or special units count? Secondly would murders commited by corrupt police officers be included? Finaly what about dictatorships? One could argue that most of the people killed in Stalin's purges where killed by police for example. --[[User:Sherool|Sherool]] 12:59, 29 July 2005 (UTC)
*'''Rename''' to [[people killed by police]] or something similar, guilty or not. [[User:Radiant!|R]][[User_talk:Radiant!|adiant]][[meta:mergist|_<span style="color:orange;">>|<</span>]] 16:15, July 29, 2005 (UTC)
*'''Rename'''. It is important to distinguish between people intentionally killed by police (e.g. for punishment or to suppress some form of activity) and those killed accidentally as a result of a misunderstanding. The current title is weighed against the police in question, and "innocent" makes the people killed seem like hapless, saintly victims, which is not always, if ever, the case. [[User:McPhail|McPhail]] 19:41, 29 July 2005 (UTC)
*'''Comment''', having this category makes [[:Category:People shot dead by police]] very problematic as we are by association saying everyone in this other category is guilty. By definition nobody in this second category was found guilty in a court of law therefore they must be considered innocent, even if their guilt is seemingly self-evident. Who are we to assign guilt? Also I'm not sure if these categories aren't a little too specific anyway. [[User:Rje|Rje]] 19:48, July 29, 2005 (UTC)
*'''Merge''' with [[:Category:People shot dead by police]] ''asuming'' this category is intended to only list victims of ''deliberate'' use of [[deadly force]] (as seems to be the case). However if it's supposed to list any person killed by police by any method merging the two into [[:Category:People killed by police]] would be better (would also include drunken suspects that die from injuries sustained during a brawl with police officers and such). --[[User:Sherool|Sherool]] 22:58, 29 July 2005 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' and merge as above. (though it should really be [[:Category:People killed by police]] as there are other ways to kill people.)[[User:Osomec|Osomec]] 02:32, 30 July 2005 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' after any necessary merging into [[:Category:People shot dead by police]] <small><span class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:NatusRoma|NatusRoma]] ([[User talk:NatusRoma|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/NatusRoma|contribs]]) 04:49, 30 July 2005</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned -->
*'''Comment''' I really can't be sure what the point of this category is. Just about anywhere, including countries that don't have the death penalty, the police can shoot you without judicial process that determines guilt or innocence. Lethal force guidelines have a lot more to do with whether police or individual officers believe you to present an immediate threat to their lives or another's. You certainly have cases where the police use lethal force to lethal or non-lethal result and discover after the fact that the person they shot did not have the means or intent to harm others seriously. It is apparent from numerous cases, particularly in New York City in the United States, that being a threat in fact and presenting a merely apparent fact to the police leaves juries with sometimes reasonable doubts at the conclusion of criminal procedures. There is also an outstanding debate on this matter in the UK, where the London Metropolitan Police are reckoned to have discharged 55 shots under their lethal force rules without a single shot fired in return and several people with no demonstrable criminal involvement shot, sometimes fatally. Conversely, being a guilty of a crime has never been an acceptable basis for use of police violeance. Disturbing though much of this may be, I am not sure that the precise nature of that problem is effectively communicated by the category name. [[User:Buffyg|Buffyg]] 05:41, 30 July 2005 (UTC)
**'''Comment''' I had some of the same sentiment. I took a look at the articles, and these are noted for being killed by police (guilty or innocent), so I changed my vote from delete. I do not agree with the current name, and I'm not quite sure if I liked the one I even agreed upon for merge. All I know is its current name needs to go. [[Special:Contributions/Who|<span style="color:#FF0033;">∞</span>]][[User:Who|Who]][[User talk:Who|<span style="color:#00Ff00;">?</span><span style="color:#FF00FF;">¿</span><span style="color:#0033FF;">?</span>]] 06:02, 30 July 2005 (UTC)
*'''Merge''' [[:Category:Innocent people killed by police]] → [[:Category:People shot dead by police]]. We can then rename ''that'' category to [[:Category:People killed by police]]. [[User:Robert A West|Robert A West]] 19:28, 30 July 2005 (UTC)
*'''Comment''' I don't think ''shot dead'' is any better, plenty of people are beaten to death in cells/otherwise killed on purpose or by accident by the police. For instance of those who died in the [[Moscow theater hostage crisis]] not many were shot but a good proportion were obviously 'innocent', no POV involved. If some renaming were going on, I'd want something that enabled articles other that just person ones, something like, [[:Category:Wrongful killings by the police]] or somesuch. --[[User:Zippedmartin|zippedmartin]] 20:23, 30 July 2005 (UTC)
:*'''Comment''' That does seem like an improvement, but by what criteria ought one judge a killing wrongful, particularly in a comparative legal context? [[User:Buffyg|Buffyg]] 09:53, 1 August 2005 (UTC)
:*All three articles in this category are about people who were shot dead by the police. [[User:NatusRoma|NatusRoma]] 03:42, August 2, 2005 (UTC)
*'''Merge''' per Who, then Rename per Robert A West. [[User:Variable|siafu]] 14:16, 2 August 2005 (UTC)
* '''Don't Merge''' with general cat. Why destroy a meaningful distinction? I guess many people are interested in this sort of information just now. Even if it's imprecise, it's still better than having to read all articles on people shot dead by police (of which there should be many more. BTW, I'd be fine with including Stalin's victims, as per Sherool.) '''However''', as of now, all three articles could be merged into [[:Category:Unarmed people shot dead by police]]. — [[User:SebastianHelm|Sebastian]] [[User_talk:SebastianHelm|(talk)]] 19:44, August 2, 2005 (UTC)
:''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <span style="color:red;">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this page.''</div>
====[[:Category:Latvian education]]====
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The result of the debate was '''defer until category titles discussion completes''' --[[User:Kbdank71|Kbdank71]] 13:54, 4 August 2005 (UTC)
Empty. I've changed the category for the corresponding articles into [[:Category:Education in Latvia]] (or into relevant subcategory) which is consistent with the names of other subcategories of [[:Category:Education by country]]. --[[User:Juzeris|Jūzeris]] | [[User talk:Juzeris|Talk]] 20:18, 28 July 2005 (UTC)
*Please call by [[Wikipedia:Category titles]] which is discussing this very issue. -[[User:Splash|Splash]] 23:49, 28 July 2005 (UTC)
*'''Defer''' per Splash. [[User:Radiant!|R]][[User_talk:Radiant!|adiant]][[meta:mergist|_<span style="color:orange;">>|<</span>]] 16:15, July 29, 2005 (UTC)
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====[[:Category:Politics of the United Kingdom]]====
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The result of the debate was '''defer until category titles discussion completes''' --[[User:Kbdank71|Kbdank71]] 13:53, 4 August 2005 (UTC)
Empty, cfd notice added on July 26 by [[User:Agentsoo|Agentsoo]] but not listed here. --[[User:Kbdank71|Kbdank71]] 18:47, 28 July 2005 (UTC)
*This is replaced by [[:Category:Politics of the UK]]. Any interested parties may wish to call by [[Wikipedia:Category titles]] which is dealing with the question of abbreviations of country names. -[[User:Splash|Splash]] 23:49, 28 July 2005 (UTC)
*'''Object''' Move all contents to the category with the full name to be consistent with the majority of United Kingdom categories. [[User:Osomec|Osomec]] 02:29, 30 July 2005 (UTC)
*'''Object''' and agree with Osomec.--[[User:Huaiwei|Huaiwei]] 12:47, 31 July 2005 (UTC)
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====[[:Category:Olympic Champions: 4x100m Women]] → [[:Category:Olympic champions in athletics 4 x 100 m relay (women)]]====
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The result of the debate was '''listify''' --[[User:Kbdank71|Kbdank71]] 13:41, 4 August 2005 (UTC)
1. Capitalize: champions <br>
2. Sport ''must'' be mentioned here (could be swimming or athletics). btw: it is athletics.<br>
3. Maybe the name of the event should be written "4 × 100 m relay", lots of alternatives.<br>
4. Maybe the ":" should be removed; describing is prefered.<br>
BTW: there is (or should be) a same content in [[Olympic medalists in athletics (women)#4 × 100 m relay]]. Remove the category altogether? -[[User:DePiep|DePiep]] 12:11, 28 July 2005 (UTC)
*'''Delete'''. As noted, it's duplicate information. --[[User:Kbdank71|Kbdank71]] 17:38, 28 July 2005 (UTC)
*'''Comment''' - this is another instance of a general problem with using categories for things, that IMO, ought to be lists. Without a separate category the champions cannot be distinguished from the other, non-gold, medalists, so in a strict sense the information is not duplicated (another example is the set of [[:Category:Academy Awards|Oscar related categories]] where there are separate categories for winners, non-winning nominees, films casting winners and films casting non-winning nominees). As far as I know we don't have any ''policy'' about this, so I think the only principled vote here should be '''keep''' ('''rename''' as suggested) since I don't think it meets any deletion criteria (if you disagree, please state which one, be specific). I would love to codify something about this as policy, or even a guideline, so CFD discussions such as this have something to point to. There have been some abortive attempts to revise [[WP:CSL]] along these lines. Is there any interest in pursuing this? -- [[user:Rick Block|Rick Block]] <small>([[user talk:Rick Block|talk]])</small> 19:02, July 28, 2005 (UTC)
**So even though you think this ought to be in a list, you're in favor of keeping the category, even though the list that already exists (hence my delete/duplicate vote), in fact it contains much more information than the category does (who won gold, silver, bronze; the category, as you pointed out, only lists gold). Might I ask why? --[[User:Kbdank71|Kbdank71]] 19:38, 28 July 2005 (UTC)
***Because there's no specific criteria we can point to that says it should be deleted. We chose not to delete the Oscar categories a while back (actually, the latest time there were basically no votes either way), so there's a precedent. I'd like us to be consistent. Unless there's a specific criteria that's part of some policy or guideline, I think the default has to be "keep" (sort of like you can't speedy something just because you don't like it). -- [[user:Rick Block|Rick Block]] <small>([[user talk:Rick Block|talk]])</small> 20:23, July 28, 2005 (UTC)
****I don't think the Oscar categories were precedent setting for this. There were many oscar categories covering every award. I could only see this one category for one event for women. There is no men's category for the same event, no other categories. As for a specific policy or guideline, there may not be, just like there isn't for many Cfd's. But common sense tells me that if we have duplicate information, we don't need to keep both. Especially when the category has far less information than the list does. --[[User:Kbdank71|Kbdank71]] 20:45, 28 July 2005 (UTC)
***The specific Oscar category CFD I'm referring to is [[Wikipedia:Categories for deletion/Category:Best Supporting Actor Oscar Nominee (film)|this one]] which has the same attributes (same information plus much more redundantly available in a list). Your common sense today, in fact the collective common sense of everyone choosing to vote in CFD today, does not necessarily arrive at the same conclusion as the collective common sense some other day (and, per the vote below, doesn't seem to match [[user:Splash]]'s). Perhaps you and Splash want to verbally duke it out, but since the current policy doesn't support ''my'' common sense I'll abstain (please note I didn't actually vote above). -- [[user:Rick Block|Rick Block]] <small>([[user talk:Rick Block|talk]])</small> 01:20, July 29, 2005 (UTC)
*<s>'''Rename''' per nominator, '''do not delete'''. </s>The cat only includes gold-medallists (I presume) so is distinct from the list in question which includes all of the medallists. Extracting infomation about gold medal achievment is surely encyclopedic? -[[User:Splash|Splash]] 23:49, 28 July 2005 (UTC)
**Actually, the cat includes articles for silver and bronze meadalists also (of course, they don't appear in the table above, but I guess that's neither here nor there). --[[User:Kbdank71|Kbdank71]] 14:32, 29 July 2005 (UTC)#
***Oh right. I'm a little confused. The table referenced in the nomination appears to include all the medallists. The table in the cat includes...some countries, all medallists?I presumed the cat was only gold because of the word 'champion'. Very confused. I think the best representation for the information is in a list which allows for more usful information to be included. So '''listify and delete'''. -[[User:Splash|Splash]] 17:17, 29 July 2005 (UTC)
*'''Listify & delete'''. Overcategorization. This is better covered in a list since that would allow us to specify the exact lap times, countries of origin, etc. [[User:Radiant!|R]][[User_talk:Radiant!|adiant]][[meta:mergist|_<span style="color:orange;">>|<</span>]] 16:15, July 29, 2005 (UTC)
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==== [[:Category:Movie websites]] ====
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The result of the debate was '''keep''' --[[User:Kbdank71|Kbdank71]] 13:31, 4 August 2005 (UTC)
Same anon as below added the cfd notice but didn't list it here. Wants to rename it to [[:Category:Film-related websites]] or [[:Category: Film websites]] . --[[User:Kbdank71|Kbdank71]] 18:43, 28 July 2005 (UTC)
*As below, '''oppose'''. [[All Movie Guide]], [[Internet Movie Database]], [[MovieLens]] pretty much sums up what these sites are. Even [[Ifilm]]'s website's title is "IFILM - '''Movies''', Trailers, Music and Viral Videos". --[[User:Kbdank71|Kbdank71]] 18:43, 28 July 2005 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' as below. -[[User:Splash|Splash]] 23:49, 28 July 2005 (UTC)
*'''Rename'''. [[User:12.73.195.132|12.73.195.132]] 00:01, 29 July 2005 (UTC)
:<small>{{user|12.73.195.132}} user assumed to be the same as the user who originally added the cfd tag [[Special:Contributions/Who|<span style="color:#FF0033;">∞</span>]][[User:Who|Who]][[User talk:Who|<span style="color:#00Ff00;">?</span><span style="color:#FF00FF;">¿</span><span style="color:#0033FF;">?</span>]] 03:39, 2 August 2005 (UTC)</small>
*'''Oppose''' as below. [[User:Radiant!|R]][[User_talk:Radiant!|adiant]][[meta:mergist|_<span style="color:orange;">>|<</span>]] 16:15, July 29, 2005 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' The majority of sites use the name movie. There is nothing inherently wrong with having a "movie" subcategory in the "film" category. I could possibly see renaming this to "Film and movie websites", but I don't see the need. It is irrelevant who added the cfd notice. -- [[User:SamuelWantman|Samuel Wantman]] 08:13, 1 August 2005 (UTC)
:*I agree it is irrelevant who added the notice for the most part. Like I stated before, the problem is we never reached a consensus, and some of these could be considered bad faith noms. But consider them good, thats ok, now we don't have consistency because then we will have "Cinema", "Film" and "Movie", so there is no longer consistency. This is why I proposed a suspend on specific Cfd's until we can discuss it on [[Wikipedia:Category titles|Category titles]]. Otherwise I fear we will be back here again deciding the same issue due to lack of consistency. For this particular Cfd,I '''oppose''' per [[User:Kbdank71|Kbdank71]]. [[Special:Contributions/Who|<span style="color:#FF0033;">∞</span>]][[User:Who|Who]][[User talk:Who|<span style="color:#00Ff00;">?</span><span style="color:#FF00FF;">¿</span><span style="color:#0033FF;">?</span>]] 08:42, 1 August 2005 (UTC)
::*I think that the consensus was to use "film" in most of the CfD discussions. The only one that did not reach a conclusion was "Cinema of Foo". For the most part there was a consensus to call the things that we watch "films" instead of "movies" or "cinemas". The problem was what to call the entire film enterprise in a specific country. The consistent naming of categories is a good thing, but not an unbreakable rule. It is a good thing because it helps make sense of the topic and helps us be clear about how we are using words. When consistency does not help make sense of the topic, then we should use a different word and forgo being consistent. The categorization of film as it stands now is pretty good. Most of the categories and most of the articles say "film". Some do not, but I don't find that to be a glaring problem. If you think we need to discuss cinema/film all over again, bring it up here or at [[Wikipedia:Category titles|Category titles]]. But I think we are almost done, and consensus is within our grasp. -- [[User:SamuelWantman|Samuel Wantman]] 09:27, 1 August 2005 (UTC)
:::*I agree, there doesnt have to be strict consistency, especially with items such as these where "film" is definately not a good choice. I see your point about the problem with "Cinema of Foo", and how it does and does not relate to other Cfd's. I am willing to change or not change those cat's which will not be arguably ambigous or poorly named. The point of suspending is because a consistency was being asked for such ridiculous categories as these, and if it didn't stop, it would be better for the whole to take it to Category titles. When the rest of these Cfd's listed finish, if there are no more similar listings, then there probably will not be a need to go there, as long as the consensus, or lack there of is followed by all parties this time. [[Special:Contributions/Who|<span style="color:#FF0033;">∞</span>]][[User:Who|Who]][[User talk:Who|<span style="color:#00Ff00;">?</span><span style="color:#FF00FF;">¿</span><span style="color:#0033FF;">?</span>]] 09:46, 1 August 2005 (UTC)
:''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <span style="color:red;">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this page.''</div>
==== [[:Category:Movie theaters]] ====
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:''The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the category above. <span style="color:red;">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this page.''
The result of the debate was '''rename''' --[[User:Kbdank71|Kbdank71]] 13:27, 4 August 2005 (UTC)
Same anon as below added the cfd notice but didn't list it here. Wants to rename it to [[:Category:Film theaters]]. --[[User:Kbdank71|Kbdank71]] 18:43, 28 July 2005 (UTC)
*As below, '''oppose'''. The main article is [[Movie theater]], not [[Film theater]]. --[[User:Kbdank71|Kbdank71]] 18:43, 28 July 2005 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' as below. -[[User:Splash|Splash]] 23:49, 28 July 2005 (UTC)
*'''Rename''', and the main article too. [[User:12.73.195.132|12.73.195.132]] 00:02, 29 July 2005 (UTC)
:<small>{{user|12.73.195.132}} user assumed to be the same as the user who originally added the cfd tag. [[Special:Contributions/Who|<span style="color:#FF0033;">∞</span>]][[User:Who|Who]][[User talk:Who|<span style="color:#00Ff00;">?</span><span style="color:#FF00FF;">¿</span><span style="color:#0033FF;">?</span>]] 03:42, 2 August 2005 (UTC)</small>
*'''COMMENT''' definitely not [[:Category:Cinemas]], that would be ambiguous; "film theatre" is kinda rare... how about [[:Category:Motion picture screening venues]]? [[User:132.205.3.20|132.205.3.20]] 14:19, 29 July 2005 (UTC)
**Mmm, that just rolls off the tongue. How about [[:Category:Big old buildings where you can sit with your family in creaky seats and eat tasty popcorn and wonder what that sticky stuff on your feet is while the management shows talkies all for a low low price]]? --[[User:Kbdank71|Kbdank71]] 14:26, 29 July 2005 (UTC)
***I disagree, not all of them are ''big''. [[Special:Contributions/Who|<span style="color:#FF0033;">∞</span>]][[User:Who|Who]][[User talk:Who|<span style="color:#00Ff00;">?</span><span style="color:#FF00FF;">¿</span><span style="color:#0033FF;">?</span>]] 04:59, 30 July 2005 (UTC)
***Clearly you have not been to [[:Category:Massive computer-designed multiplex structure featuring pseudo art-deco mixed with loud colors, flashing lights, screaming children, and overpriced candy and refreshments after you spend an arm and a leg to get in]]. Low price my butt. [[User:Variable|siafu]] 14:23, 2 August 2005 (UTC)
*'''Rename''' to [[:Category:Cinemas]] to avoid discussion between 'film' and 'movie'. Everybody knows what a cinema is. [[User:Radiant!|R]][[User_talk:Radiant!|adiant]][[meta:mergist|_<span style="color:orange;">>|<</span>]] 16:15, July 29, 2005 (UTC)
*Rename Cinemas. [[User:Jooler|Jooler]] 21:52, 31 July 2005 (UTC)
*<s>'''Rename''' to [[:Category:Cinemas]] as per [[User:Radiant!|R]][[User_talk:Radiant!|adiant]].</s> I feel this is a good compromise and doesn't need to be handled by [[Wikipedia:Category titles|Category titles]]. [[Special:Contributions/Who|<span style="color:#FF0033;">∞</span>]][[User:Who|Who]][[User talk:Who|<span style="color:#00Ff00;">?</span><span style="color:#FF00FF;">¿</span><span style="color:#0033FF;">?</span>]] 22:48, 31 July 2005 (UTC)
:*'''Rename''' [[:Category:Cinemas and movie theaters]], see below. [[Special:Contributions/Who|<span style="color:#FF0033;">∞</span>]][[User:Who|Who]][[User talk:Who|<span style="color:#00Ff00;">?</span><span style="color:#FF00FF;">¿</span><span style="color:#0033FF;">?</span>]] 09:40, 1 August 2005 (UTC)
*'''Rename''' to [[:Category:Cinemas and Movie theaters]]. This should be understandable to all speakers of English. "Movie Theater" is an Americanism. "Cinemas" can be mistaken by Americans as being "Cinema in Foo". Using both recognizes that there are two common names depending upon where you are from and that neither name is more correct than the other. I'd also recommend soft redirects from both [[:Category:Cinemas]] and [[:Category:Movie theatres]]. -- [[User:SamuelWantman|Samuel Wantman]] 08:23, 1 August 2005 (UTC)
:*I think I can agee with that, but shouldn't we use [[:Category:Cinemas and movie theaters]]? [[Special:Contributions/Who|<span style="color:#FF0033;">∞</span>]][[User:Who|Who]][[User talk:Who|<span style="color:#00Ff00;">?</span><span style="color:#FF00FF;">¿</span><span style="color:#0033FF;">?</span>]] 08:34, 1 August 2005 (UTC)
::* Of course. I mistyped. Sorry. -- [[User:SamuelWantman|Samuel Wantman]] 09:02, 1 August 2005 (UTC)
::*I'm ok with that rename. --[[User:Kbdank71|Kbdank71]] 13:26, 4 August 2005 (UTC)
*'''Rename''' per Wantman/Who. [[User:Variable|siafu]] 14:23, 2 August 2005 (UTC)
:''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <span style="color:red;">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this page.''</div>
==== [[:Category:Cinema pioneers]] ====
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:''The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the category above. <span style="color:red;">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this page.''
The result of the debate was '''no consensus (keep)''' --[[User:Kbdank71|Kbdank71]] 13:24, 4 August 2005 (UTC)
Same issue, rename to [[:Category:Film pioneers]], replace "Cinema" with "Film" for terminological consistency. [[User:12.73.195.155|12.73.195.155]] 02:22, 28 July 2005 (UTC)
*'''Oppose'''. I find myself unable to support a user who has unilaterally wholesale reversed a previous CfD, is trying to force the issue (which is back under discussion [[#Category:Film by country|below]]) with all of these nominations and has [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia%3ACategories_for_deletion&diff=19752908&oldid=19724461 vandalized the CfD page]. Considering that the issue has been returned to discussion below, I see no value in contemplating these CfRs until that one is complete. At that point they will either be no-brainer keep or renames as appropriate. -[[User:Splash|Splash]] 02:58, 28 July 2005 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' agree with [[User:Splash|Splash]]. Also this user removed the {{tl|Cfd}} from [[:Category:Film by country]], and attemped to get [[:Category:Cinema by country]] speedied. I would not mind this Cfr in general, if there wan't such a strong oppostion and support (no consensus) for the original Cfr. This naming needs to be decided as a whole.
:*'''Comment''' as a whole, I meant in [[Wikipedia:Category titles|Category titles]], suggest '''suspend''', including similar cats involved. [[Special:Contributions/Who|<span style="color:#FF0033;">∞</span>]][[User:Who|Who]][[User talk:Who|<span style="color:#00Ff00;">?</span><span style="color:#FF00FF;">¿</span><span style="color:#0033FF;">?</span>]] 23:02, 31 July 2005 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' as per Splash and Who. --[[User:Kbdank71|Kbdank71]] 14:20, 28 July 2005 (UTC)
*'''Warning'''. The 3 of you are engaging in wholesale assumption-making about who the current anon is who's requesting changes, accusing him of dubious 'crimes' committed by someone else, and blanketly refusing to discuss the merits of this and other changes he proposes. You have lost all sense of civility, objectivity, and reasonableness, and your "Oppose" votes cannot be taken seriously by any reasonable Wikipedian. In fact, your statements are an embarrassment to this site. For the record, I have reported your actions here on the [[:Wikipedia:Wikiquette alerts]] page earlier today, and hopefully someone will give you three the needed kick in the ass for your asinine conduct. PS - I '''support''' the change. <small><span class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:12.73.195.132|12.73.195.132]] ([[User talk:12.73.195.132|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/12.73.195.132|contribs]]) 23:57, 28 July 2005</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <small>assumed to be same user as nom. [[Special:Contributions/Who|<span style="color:#FF0033;">∞</span>]][[User:Who|Who]][[User talk:Who|<span style="color:#00Ff00;">?</span><span style="color:#FF00FF;">¿</span><span style="color:#0033FF;">?</span>]] 03:45, 2 August 2005 (UTC)</small>
*'''Oppose''' as per [[User:Splash|Splash]], [[User:Who|Who]]. [[User:Buffyg|Buffyg]] 01:12, 29 July 2005 (UTC)
*'''Support''' for consistency. [[User:Radiant!|R]][[User_talk:Radiant!|adiant]][[meta:mergist|_<span style="color:orange;">>|<</span>]] 16:15, July 29, 2005 (UTC)
*'''Support'''. (Wow! For once I actually agree with Radiant!) It doesn't matter who listed this at CfD. On its own, I could go either way, but unless someone is proposing to switch all the film categories back to "cinema", it doesn't make sense to keep this one saying "cinema". "Film pioneers" makes as much sense on its own, and more sense in relation to all the other categories and articles that are named "film". -- [[User:SamuelWantman|Samuel Wantman]] 08:33, 1 August 2005 (UTC)
*'''Suspend''' per Who. [[User:Variable|siafu]] 14:25, 2 August 2005 (UTC)
:''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <span style="color:red;">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this page.''</div>
==== [[:Category:Movie soundtracks]] ====
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:''The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the category above. <span style="color:red;">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this page.''
The result of the debate was '''keep''' --[[User:Kbdank71|Kbdank71]] 13:22, 4 August 2005 (UTC)
Same issue rename to [[:Category:Film soundtrack albums]], replace "Movie" with "Film" for terminological consistency, plus add "albums" to clarify that this Cat actually deals with music track recordings and not other aspects of complete soundtrack. [[User:12.73.195.155|12.73.195.155]] 02:22, 28 July 2005 (UTC)
*See above. Although there is some discussion to be had about the word "albums". -[[User:Splash|Splash]] 02:58, 28 July 2005 (UTC)
*Same as above, also agree about "albums" discussion.
:*'''Oppose''' reguardless of consistency, I think current name is better, however it can still be further discussed / suspended if need be. [[Special:Contributions/Who|<span style="color:#FF0033;">∞</span>]][[User:Who|Who]][[User talk:Who|<span style="color:#00Ff00;">?</span><span style="color:#FF00FF;">¿</span><span style="color:#0033FF;">?</span>]] 09:49, 1 August 2005 (UTC)
*Same as above. --[[User:Kbdank71|Kbdank71]] 14:21, 28 July 2005 (UTC)
*'''Rename''' as requested. [[User:|12.73.195.132]] 23:58, 28 July 2005 (UTC)
:<small>{{user|12.73.195.132}} assumed to be the same user as nom. [[Special:Contributions/Who|<span style="color:#FF0033;">∞</span>]][[User:Who|Who]][[User talk:Who|<span style="color:#00Ff00;">?</span><span style="color:#FF00FF;">¿</span><span style="color:#0033FF;">?</span>]] 04:23, 2 August 2005 (UTC)</small>
*Same as above. [[User:Buffyg|Buffyg]] 01:12, 29 July 2005 (UTC)
*'''COMMENT''', I think [[:Category:Motion picture soundtrack albums]] would be more appropriate. [[User:132.205.3.20|132.205.3.20]] 14:21, 29 July 2005 (UTC)
*'''Rename to [[:Category:Soundtrack albums]]'''. Then we don't have to argue about film vs. movie! This seems to be a common usage in the articles. It seems unambiguous. Recordings are still called albums, even though they haven't really been albums for over 50 years. -- [[User:SamuelWantman|Samuel Wantman]] 08:41, 1 August 2005 (UTC)
:''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <span style="color:red;">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this page.''</div>
==== [[:Category:Movie genres]] ====
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:''The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the category above. <span style="color:red;">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this page.''
The result of the debate was '''keep''' --[[User:Kbdank71|Kbdank71]] 13:20, 4 August 2005 (UTC)
Rename to [[:Category:Film genres]] for consistent header terminology. "Movie" is slang, juvenile, in addition. Primary category is [[:Category:Film]] and subcategory's contents reflect change to Film. Ergo... [[User:12.73.195.155|12.73.195.155]] 02:22, 28 July 2005 (UTC)
*See above. -[[User:Splash|Splash]] 02:58, 28 July 2005 (UTC)
*Same as above.
*Same as above. --[[User:Kbdank71|Kbdank71]] 14:21, 28 July 2005 (UTC)
*'''Rename''' as requested. [[User:12.73.195.132|12.73.195.132]] 23:59, 28 July 2005 (UTC)
:<small>{{user|12.73.195.132}} assumed to be the same user as nom. [[Special:Contributions/Who|<span style="color:#FF0033;">∞</span>]][[User:Who|Who]][[User talk:Who|<span style="color:#00Ff00;">?</span><span style="color:#FF00FF;">¿</span><span style="color:#0033FF;">?</span>]] 03:47, 2 August 2005 (UTC)</small>
*Same as above. [[User:Buffyg|Buffyg]] 01:13, 29 July 2005 (UTC)
*'''COMMENT''' [[:Category:Film]] uses an ambiguous name. This should probably be called [[:Category:Motion picture genres]]. [[User:132.205.3.20|132.205.3.20]] 14:23, 29 July 2005 (UTC)
*'''NOTE''' that this issue seems broad enough to become a later topic in our Category Titles discussion. [[User:Radiant!|R]][[User_talk:Radiant!|adiant]][[meta:mergist|_<span style="color:orange;">>|<</span>]] 16:15, July 29, 2005 (UTC)
*'''Rename'''. Most of the genres listed have the word "film" and not "movie". "Film genres" is perfectly understandable, and consistent with all the other film categories. Another choice would be "Cinematic genres". There is already an article called [[Cinematic genre]]. -- [[User:SamuelWantman|Samuel Wantman]] 08:49, 1 August 2005 (UTC)
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====[[:Category:Towns in Switzerland]] ====
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The result of the debate was '''delete''' --[[User:Kbdank71|Kbdank71]] 13:18, 4 August 2005 (UTC)
In Switzerland, town and city are synonymes for all practical uses of the word - there are no towns which are not cities as well and vice versa. So this (meanwhile empty) category should be removed. ([[:Category:Cities in Switzerland]] exists and the articles in [[:Category:Towns in Switzerland]] have been moved to either [[:Category:Cities in Switzerland]] or [[:Category:Municipalities of Switzerland]] (which is the official generic name in Switzerland for places of any size which are official government subdivisions) . --[[User:Irmgard|Irmgard]] 22:30, 3 August 2005 (UTC)
*'''Delete'''. No argument. [[User:Variable|siafu]] 22:33, 3 August 2005 (UTC)
:''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <span style="color:red;">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this page.''</div>
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