Talk:Partial discharge: Difference between revisions

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==PD Comments/Questions under this heading please==

''To all interested in this page '''Please''' do not start to confuse partial discharges with [[corona discharge]] or we will get into a heck of a mess which will take weeks of painful and acrimonious argument to resolve. Corona is '''not''' the same as [[partial discharge]]. Partial discharges always occur '''inside''' the [[insulation]] of a cable or transformer windings. Corona is a ''surface'' phenomenon occuring on overhead lines and their insulator strings etc.''LC''

Corona is '''not''' in my view, the same as [[partial discharge]].

Partial discharges always occur '''inside''' the [[dielectric]] of a cable or transformer windings. Corona is a ''surface'' phenomenon occuring on overhead lines and their insulator strings etc.''LC''

Not sure how corona can occur in solid insulation. It can occur in air,gases maybe even liquids. But solids?? I don't think so, Can anyone explain this??[[User:Light current|Light current]] 23:31, 8 August 2005 (UTC)

:There is a great deal to say about partial discharges and their measurement. I have worked on and with instrumentation to do just that. Maybe best get a word from '''Bert''' to confirm what I say as some people dont seem to believe '''me'''. He seems to know a lot about corona etc. [[User:Light current|Light current]] 06:25, 8 August 2005 (UTC)

:'''HELP!!'''dont know how to do diagrams. can someone advise me of best drawing package for both mechanical drawings and cct diags for import into WP?. THanx [[User:Light current|Light current]] 14:27, 13 August 2005 (UTC)

===Definition=Corona ofand partial discharge====

:Kuffel &Zaengl (K&Z from now on) say [[PD]] can occur in any combination of solid, liquid, or gas and that corona is sometimes grouped under the term partial discharge. However in the industry, corona and partial discharge are treated as two distinct phenomena.Includes a wide variety of discharge phenomena.(K&S)[[User:Light current|Light current]] 14:14, 13 August 2005 (UTC)

::Dont think so[[User:Light current|Light current]] 14:50, 13 August 2005 (UTC)

Not sure how corona can occur in solid [[insulation]]. It can occur in air,gases[[gas]]es maybe even liquids[[liquid]]s. But solids[[solid]]s?? I don't think so, Can anyone explain this??[[User:Light current|Light current]] 23:31, 8 August 2005 (UTC)

:PLEASE DO NOT PUT COMMENTS IN THE PROTO PAGE AREA BELOW - THANX

== If any one would like to help me expand this stub, please add proposed headings/content under here (not on article page yet!)Thanx== [[User:Light current|Light current]] 14:35, 13 August 2005 (UTC)

:Kuffel & Zaengl (K&Z from now on) say [[PD]] can occur in any combination of solid, liquid, or gas and that corona is sometimes grouped under the term [[partial discharge]]. However in the industry, corona and partial discharge are treated as two distinct phenomena. Includes a wide variety of discharge phenomena. (K&SZ)[[User:Light current|Light current]] 14:14, 13 August 2005 (UTC)

===Definition of partial discharge===

Partial discharges are localised discharges inside an [[electrical]] [[insulation]] system which are limited to a part of the insulation and so only partially bridge the [[electrodes]]. It occurs in cavities or voids within liquid or solid dielectrics. Also surface charges appear between different insulating materials (so what? is this PD as well?).

:There is a great deal to say about partial discharges and their [[measurement]]. I have worked on and with [[instrumentation]] to do just that. Maybe best get a word from '''Bert''' to confirm what I say as some people dont seem to believe '''me'''. He seems to know a lot about [[corona]] etc. [[User:Light current|Light current]] 06:25, 8 August 2005 (UTC)

===Partial discharge equivalent circuit===

:[[Dielectric]] breakdown within liquids and solids is considerably more complex and less understood than within gases. However, breakdown within either solids or gases seems to be preceeded by the formation of gas-filled cracks or bubbles which have significantly lower dielectric strength than the parent dielectric material. Once these voids form, you will get corona/PD within them (hence the K&Z comment). You can increase the breakdown voltage of oil by putting it under pressure (thereby helping to prevent initial bubble formation). However, there are a number of other mechanisms that can also lead to internal field concentrations and treeing/breakdown, such as long term space charge injection within solid and liquid dielectrics, alignment of particulates along E-field lines in iquids, etc. I've modified the wording a bit in the PD article to provide a bit more information on the physics/chemistry underlying the phenomenon. [[User:Bert Hickman|Bert]] 15:08, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

Need to do a diagram here- (obviously!)

===Partial discharge currents===

:Linked Partial Discharge to newly created [[Electrical_treeing|Electrical Treeing]] article, since older "treeing" article only discussed hunting dogs. [[User:Bert Hickman|Bert]] 17:34, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

==='Apparent charge'===

Yes we used to do all this sort of work, but discharges inside insulation were always refered to and treated as PD. How would you know corona is happening deep inside a solid and be able to tell the difference from PD by external measurements? Can corona and PD be lumped together in one measurement of discharge magnitude I wonder?--[[User:Light current|Light current]] 17:34, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

While the same test is used for PD and Corona the two are different. You can have PD without Corona, but you cannot have Corona without PD. Corona occurs only when the PD has hit the threshold of the material where it starts to ionize. Part of what makes identifying Corona and PD difficult to detect in a solid is that one of the key indicators - light - cannot always be seen in the solid. The photons that are released when the material is ionized are absorbed quickly in the solid.[[User:Kevin McGivern|Kevin McGivern]] ([[User talk:Kevin McGivern|talk]]) 23:27, 27 April 2015 (UTC)

===Discharge detection and measuring circuits===

A number of discharge detection schemes have been invented since the importance of PD was realised early in the last century

====Wideband PD detection ccts====

====Tuned (narrowDrawing band)diagrams detectionfor this page ccts====

:'''HELP!!''' dont know how to do diagrams. can someone advise me of best drawing package for both mechanical drawings and cct diags for import into WP?. THanx [[User:Light current|Light current]] 14:27, 13 August 2005 (UTC)

:There is no best drawing package. :-) Different people use different things. The only requirement is that photographic images are in [[jpeg]] format and diagrams and such are in [[png]] format. See [[Wikipedia:Graphics tutorials]], [[User:Omegatron#Electronics diagrams]], [[Wikipedia:How to create graphs for Wikipedia articles]]. I use the [[GIMP]], [[Inkscape]], and Klunky, as described on my userpage. - [[User:Omegatron|Omegatron]] 22:57, August 13, 2005 (UTC)

===Disadvantages of partial discharge in insulation systems===

==Suggest merge==

The effects of PD within [[high voltage]] cables with solid insulation can be very serious and lead to complete failure of the cable. (an explosion)

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The continuous effect of discharge in solid dielectrics results in formation of discharge channels. This is called [[treeing]]. Discharge events deteriorate the insulating material by the energy dissipated by high energy [[electrons]] or [[ions]] and can cause chemical transformation of the [[dielectric]](K&S)

[[Partial discharge measurement]] would be more useful to the reader as a section of this article, to give context and iluustration of the phenomenon. --[[User:Wtshymanski|Wtshymanski]] ([[User talk:Wtshymanski|talk]]) 13:21, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

:'''Decline merge''' I don't think this makes a lot of sense. In the interest of clarity it makes more sense to seperate the articles. However, it is a good idea to have a crosslink in each article! Such crosslinks are already available! <small><span class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:HVWeb|HVWeb]] ([[User talk:HVWeb|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/HVWeb|contribs]]) 09:20, 27 April 2011 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

:'''Support''' - [[Partial discharge measurement]] would be better as a section of this article. There appears to be a [[WP:Conflict of interest]] by the editor, who has been creating several articles like [[Partial discharge measurement]], along with links to one company's product pages. [[User:Mr. Credible|Mr. Credible]] ([[User talk:Mr. Credible|talk]]) 09:50, 27 April 2011 (UTC)

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