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{{merged-to|Joel Spolsky|date=22 February 2014}}
Folks,▼
==Comments==
▲Folks,
I searched wikipedia for "schlemiel the painter's algorithm", and found it listed as a "requested article", so I wrote the article (probably badly, because I've never written an encyclopedia article before), but now it's been flagged with "This article or section may contain material not appropriate for an encyclopedia."
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I think it's safe to say that "a Schlemiel" is a "contemporary name" for an eternal problem, which heretofore has remained nameless, and it's a problem which programmers are wanting to learn and think about... and I submit that on these grounds the topic is worthy of a Wikipedia article.
:It is, indeed. And I've been sprinkling /* schlemiel the painter here! */ in comments for inneficient code I cross with ever since I heard the enlightned anecdote from Joel. Let it be known, so it can be sanitized. :) [[Special:Contributions/189.27.24.86|189.27.24.86]] ([[User talk:189.27.24.86|talk]]) 06:17, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
I accept that the style of the article is (in parts) inappropriate for an encylopedia... but I hope that the "under construction" tags buys me a few days to get that sorted out. I'm new at this, and I think I'm doing OK so far, getting some ideas down... could be better, but could be a lot worse.
Cheers. Keith. [[User:Wookie2u|Wookie2u]] ([[User talk:Wookie2u|talk]]) 06:34, 11 May 2008 (UTC)▼
▲[[User:Wookie2u|Wookie2u]] ([[User talk:Wookie2u|talk]]) 06:34, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
:Had a pop at fleshing out the intro, making the significance of the term clearer to a layman (e.g., me). Hope that helps... only one of the footnotes appeared at the bottom, but I can't see what I've done wrong. If anyone knows how to fix it, that'd be great.[[User:Señor Service|Señor Service]] ([[User talk:Señor Service|talk]]) 15:56, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
::Something else occurs - the original blog article spelled it "Shlemiel" or something (certainly without a C). Don't know if that means we should use that spelling in the article...?[[User:Señor Service|Señor Service]] ([[User talk:Señor Service|talk]]) 16:22, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
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#** First, Spolsky did ''not'' see "<code>the schlemiel as a pandemic spread by improperly-educated Computer Science graduates.</code>"<br />'Schlemiel' is Spolsky's word for ''any'' kind of inefficient code/coding practice, of which he provides six or seven examples. Lack of understanding of the basics (irrespective of the cause of that lack) causes such poor coding habits. That lack of education ''in'' the basics results in lack of understanding ''of'' the basics is orthogonal to his point, which is "[Back to] Basics."<br />There is also nothing in the essay that suggests that the issue is ''specific'' to improperly-educated Computer Science graduates.
#** Also, Spolsky was making a ''prediction'' that poor education would lead to inefficient programming. Note the future tense in "<code>this is a pedagogical disaster waiting to happen.</code>"
#Finally, "<code>[Spolsky saw] the schlemiel as a pandemic spread by improperly-educated Computer Science graduates</code>" is a poor choice of words.<br />A 'schlemiel' is an inefficient way to do something. It is not an infectious disease. It does not spread. An 'improperly-educated Computer Science graduate' is not a host of an infection.<br />"<code>The 'schlemiel' was identified and named by software engineer ...</code>" is hardly better, but is superfluous anyway since it duplicates the opening words of the very next paragraph.<br />A better way to have said all that might have been: "<code>The term 'schlemiel' was originally used to express a dissatisfaction with the beginner-level education of computer science students; <etc>.</code>" But as noted in #2 above, it would have still been incorrect. -- [[User:Fullstop|Fullstop]] ([[User talk:Fullstop|talk]]) 02:02, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
Hey Fullstop - I'm not going to change it back (or at all), because it's clear from your article that you know more about the subject matter than I do. But for info, "pandemic" doesn't have anything to do with disease or infectiousness per se; it just means general and widespread (literally "of all the people"). It's often used in the context of disease, where it has a specific meaning, but not always.
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:There - perfection, surely![[User:Señor Service|Señor Service]] ([[User talk:Señor Service|talk]]) 19:21, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
::(Think I'm muddying the water by arguing the toss about what "Pandemic" means above - you're right insofar as it's enough of a stretch to be OR - better to focus on why I wrote the sentence in the first place, which was because I thought Spolsky should appear in the first para. I think it works nicely now, insofar as the last lines of the opening lead naturally to the first section heading and make it feel like less of a non-sequitur.) <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/86.149.229.25|86.149.229.25]] ([[User talk:86.149.229.25|talk]]) 21:54, 5 June 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
:Right. As I said before... "He does suggest something to that effect in relation to graduates, but [being ''specific'' to graduates is] not the same thing as schlemiels being ''generally'' widespread."
:As for the name in the lead, thats fine. :) Btw, I don't know "more" than what Joel said in his essay. I'm just a close reader. -- [[User:Fullstop|Fullstop]] ([[User talk:Fullstop|talk]]) 22:02, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
== Doesn't quite work ==
strcat() isn't calculating the length: it's merely looking for the terminating NUL. Also, it doesn't have to walk back to the start of the string; at the next call, <em>it's already there</em>. One can only assume that there is some sort of teleportation device in use here… [[User:Dsalt|Dsalt]] ([[User talk:Dsalt|talk]]) 12:49, 12 December 2009 (UTC)
uh, dude, you better read Joel again... strcat does indeed start over at the begining with each new request (I'm guessing that you are not actually a programmer?). strcat does not and cannot retain any knowledge about the previous state of the strings that it has been handed, therefore it must start at the begining. IMHO this is a classic example of why C is a very defective language and a blight upon the computer industry. In reference to the debate about about how widespread the problem is, yes, it is indeed a pandemic, strcat is used everywhere, as are c-strings, which is the actual root of this problem, and many other related problems such as the endless number of buffer overflow exploits, all being caused by this fundamental bad design of the C language. P.S. I am speaking from the prespective of someone who has actually designed a computer language, so I do have expert knowledge of this subject. I am not just some blithering idiot with an ego and an opinion to pontificate as so many random commentators tend to be. That comment is not aimed at you Dsalt, but just a general observation about the state of the internet in which everyone on it seems to think that their opinions all have equal merit, they don't. [[User:OldCodger2|OldCodger2]] ([[User talk:OldCodger2|talk]]) 20:48, 3 June 2012 (UTC)
== Can't we take down the notability banner yet? ==
We should leave the orphan banner, though. [[User:smaines|-SM]] 09:16, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
This is a notable article in the field of Computer Science, My vote is that the banner should be removed. but since I am not knowledgable of wiki procedures I shall leave it for someone else to do, at least until I become more knowledgable of wiki, in which case I may do it myself, if nobody else has by done it by then. [[User:OldCodger2|OldCodger2]] ([[User talk:OldCodger2|talk]]) 21:17, 3 June 2012 (UTC)
For completions sake it'd be good to have a code snippet underneath that explains a less expensive way of concatenating those strings together. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/220.245.169.212|220.245.169.212]] ([[User talk:220.245.169.212|talk]]) 08:47, 27 September 2013 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
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