Wikipedia talk:Reference desk/header/howtoask: Difference between revisions
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== Edit Request ==
{{tlx|editprotected}}
<s>I'm having a discussion [[Wikipedia talk:Reference Desk#Posting guidelines|here]], and there appears to be consensus to change the template. It's a minor addition, and I don't see how ediitng this template is risky at all. It should be permanently unprotected.--[[User:Hello. I'm new here, but I'm sure I can help out.|Hello. I'm new here, but I'm sure I can help out.]] ([[User talk:Hello. I'm new here, but I'm sure I can help out.|talk]]) 04:46, 31 July 2008 (UTC)</s> [banned user Primetime]
:The template forms part of the header for all the reference desks, which are all highly visible pages. They are protected because clever vandalism to such templates can produce obscenities on the page that can be hard to source and remove. The link you have provided doesn't work - please provide some detail on what you want changed and why. [[User:Happy-melon|<b style="color:forestgreen;">Happy</b>]]‑[[User talk:Happy-melon|<b style="color:darkorange;">melon</b>]] 11:12, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
::<s>I have corrected the link. Feel free to follow it for an explanation. I am obviously not a vandal, but if you don't trust me, then feel free to leave the page protected.--[[User:Hello. I'm new here, but I'm sure I can help out.|Hello. I'm new here, but I'm sure I can help out.]] ([[User talk:Hello. I'm new here, but I'm sure I can help out.|talk]]) 17:20, 31 July 2008 (UTC)</s>
:::The issue is not whether you are a vandal - you are quite obviously not - but simply the fact that, were the page to be unprotected, ''anyone'' (including those people who ''are'' vandals) would be able to edit it. As you can see from threads like [[Wikipedia talk:Reference desk#avil lavigne]], the consequences of allowing edits to the reference desk to be concealed in subpages are problematic. There doesn't appear to be a clear consensus in that discussion to add anything to this header page at this time. [[User:Happy-melon|<b style="color:forestgreen;">Happy</b>]]‑[[User talk:Happy-melon|<b style="color:darkorange;">melon</b>]] 11:23, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
::::FYI, actually this user is a vandal and his other accounts have been engaged in template vandalism. [[Special:Contributions/Will_Beback| ·:· ]][[User:Will Beback|Will Beback]] [[User talk:Will Beback|·:·]]
==Request for re-wording==
The other day I posted a request at the Ref Desk talk page [[Wikipedia talk:Reference desk#Questions headed "Question"|here]], and I was redirected here. I'm afraid I'm not too sure what happens next. I'd have thought that various editors would have views on this suggested wording change and might want the chance to comment. But I, for one, never even knew about this page till yesterday, and I've been a regular on the ref desk for coming up to 5 years. Enlightenment, please? -- [[User:JackofOz|JackofOz]] ([[User talk:JackofOz|talk]]) 10:27, 26 September 2008 (UTC)
== Answer requests for clarification. ==
This page needs a line something like:
* You should check back on the progress of your question at least once a day because sometimes the respondants may need to ask you to clarify some aspect of your question. Replying to such requests quickly will help you get the answer you need.
[[User:SteveBaker|SteveBaker]] ([[User talk:SteveBaker|talk]]) 20:29, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
== add link ==
{{tlx|editprotected}}
'If you are considering suicide or self-harm, please talk to a doctor, friend, or counsellor, or call a hotline.'
I'd add a link:
'If you are considering suicide or self-harm, please talk to a doctor, friend, or counsellor, or call a [[crisis hotline|hotline]].'
anon, 21:38, 21 November 2008 (UTC)
:{{Not done}} - This needs [[WP:CONSENSUS|consensus]] before being added. - [[User:Rjd0060|Rjd0060]] ([[User talk:Rjd0060|talk]]) 15:32, 23 November 2008 (UTC)
It was added apparently without discussion. I've removed it. Please discuss here to assess consensus. –[[User talk:Moondyne|Moondyne]] 23:38, 7 January 2009 (UTC)
== Archive search box ==
{{tlx|edit protected}}
Propose adding an archive search box to the reference desk pages. Specifically, the following code on the [[Wikipedia:Reference_desk/header/howtoask| howtoask]]
<blockquote>
* '''Yes, you can search first. Please do this'''. Many questions can be immediately answered by a simple [http://www.google.com google search]. Entering search terms in the box to the left may locate useful articles in Wikipedia.
</blockquote>
should be replaced by
<blockquote>
* '''Yes, you can search first. Please do this'''.
:* Search the reference desk archive to see if your question has been asked and answered earlier.
<inputbox>
bgcolor=
type=fulltext
prefix=Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives
break=yes
width=60
searchbuttonlabel=Search reference desk archives
</inputbox>
:* Entering search terms in the box to the left may locate useful articles in Wikipedia.
:* Many questions can be immediately answered by a simple [http://www.google.com google search].
</blockquote>
See earlier discussion on the [[Wikipedia_talk:Reference_desk#Archive_search_box| Reference desk talk page]]. [[User:Abecedare|Abecedare]] ([[User talk:Abecedare|talk]]) 23:27, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
::'''Strong support''': Yes coz we have the same questions coming up again and again! --[[User:KnowledgeHegemonyPart2|<span style="color:darkblue;font-size:small;;font-family:Segoe Print;">'''KnowledgeHegemony'''</span>]] [[User talk:KnowledgeHegemonyPart2|<sup><span style="color:black;">talk</span></sup>]] 17:20, 11 January 2009 (UTC)
:::No objections in a few days so [[File:Yes check.svg|20px|link=|alt=]] '''Done'''<!-- Template:EP -->. - [[User:Rjd0060|Rjd0060]] ([[User talk:Rjd0060|talk]]) 03:58, 14 January 2009 (UTC)
== Explanation of what a reference desk is ==
I propose that their should be an explanation of what a reference desk is, either at the top of this section or immediately above it. It would look something like this:
The Wikipedia reference desk attempts to provide services comparable to those of a [[library reference desk]]. Questions posed by users are answered by other Wikipedians.
<big>'''Is there any way I can get a faster answer?'''</big><br>
* '''Yes, you can search first. Please do this'''.
.
.
.
[[User:Yaris678|Yaris678]] ([[User talk:Yaris678|talk]]) 21:04, 26 July 2009 (UTC)
== proposed change to add general wikipedia search ==
{{tl|editprotected}}
because of some comments over on the reference desk talk page about how the 'box to the left' line isn't correct for all skins (including the new default Vector skin), I suggest we simple add a search box to the header, the way it's done on the [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/RD_header|main ref desk page]]. this code changes the wording on the first bullt point of the "Yes, you can search first" section, adds another input box, and deletes the redundant second bullet point. I;m not sure whether the 'wikitable' class works right with the series of templates involved - you might test it with and without that class first to see how it looks.
use the following code (beginning here with line 2 of the template):
<pre>* '''Yes, you can search first. Please do this'''.
:* Search the reference desk archive to see if your question has been asked earlier, or search wikipedia as a whole.
{| class="wikitable" style="margin-left: 5em;text-align: center;"
! style="width:300px" | Search Reference Desk Archives
! style="width:300px" | Search Wikipedia Main Site
|-
|<inputbox>
type=fulltext
prefix=Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives
break=yes
width=40
searchbuttonlabel=Search archives
</inputbox>
|<inputbox>
type=search
buttonlabel=Try exact match
searchbuttonlabel=Search full text
break=yes
width=40
id=MP
</inputbox>
|}
:* Many questions can be immediately answered by a simple [http://www.google.com google search].</pre>
it looks like the following (without the dotted border, that I added for clarity):
<div style="border: thin darkgrey dotted">
* '''Yes, you can search first. Please do this'''.
:* Search the reference desk archive to see if your question has been asked earlier, or search wikipedia as a whole.
{| class="wikitable" style="margin-left: 5em;text-align: center;"
! style="width:300px" | Search Reference Desk Archives
! style="width:300px" | Search Wikipedia Main Site
|-
|<inputbox>
type=fulltext
prefix=Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives
break=yes
width=40
searchbuttonlabel=Search archives
</inputbox>
|<inputbox>
type=search
buttonlabel=Try exact match
searchbuttonlabel=Search full text
break=yes
width=40
id=MP
</inputbox>
|}
:* Many questions can be immediately answered by a simple [http://www.google.com google search].
</div>
--[[User_talk:Ludwigs2|<span style="color:darkblue;font-weight:bold">Ludwigs</span><span style="color:green;font-weight:bold">2</span>]] 19:54, 9 June 2010 (UTC)
:Seems reasonable enough. But I had a quick question, does the Wikipedia search box (input box) on the right look like it's 1 pixel lower than the input box on the left to anyone else? [[User:Killiondude|Killiondude]] ([[User talk:Killiondude|talk]]) 20:47, 9 June 2010 (UTC)
::It does to me. Can this be fixed before its implemented? [[User:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Teal; font-family:Tahoma;">'''HJ Mitchell'''</span>]] | [[User talk:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color:Navy; font-family:Times New Roman;">Penny for your thoughts? </span>]] 17:30, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
:::sorry for the delay getting back on this - I missed your responses and forgot to check back.
:::On my Mac, using Firefox, Safari, and my high tech testing tool (I used the bottom edge of a Finder window to get a sightline), there is no difference. it may be an optical illusion based on the fact that because of the table size the input boxes are not perfectly centered in the table cells. or it may be a PC/IE thing. can one of you confirm that it's a real issue instead of an apparent issue? --[[User_talk:Ludwigs2|<span style="color:darkblue;font-weight:bold">Ludwigs</span><span style="color:green;font-weight:bold">2</span>]] 01:44, 10 July 2010 (UTC)
::::I did the same test and it showed up 2 pixels lower. [[User:1234r00t|<span style='color:#383132'><i><u><b>Mr. R00t</b></u></i></span>]] [[User Talk:1234r00t| <span style="color:#46520C"><sup><u><i>Talk</i></u></sup></span>]] 00:18, 11 July 2010 (UTC)
:::::Which browser were you using, on what platform? --[[User_talk:Ludwigs2|<span style="color:darkblue;font-weight:bold">Ludwigs</span><span style="color:green;font-weight:bold">2</span>]] 00:37, 11 July 2010 (UTC)
:::::Ah, never mind. I figured out that the (undocumented) search2 option doesn't accept the break parameter, and that was throwing off vertical centering. I've modified the table above - problem should be fixed now. let me know if it isn't. --[[User_talk:Ludwigs2|<span style="color:darkblue;font-weight:bold">Ludwigs</span><span style="color:green;font-weight:bold">2</span>]] 01:11, 11 July 2010 (UTC)
::::::I was using Firefox (and tested in Safari) on Mac OS X Snow Leopard. [[User:1234r00t|<span style='color:#383132'><i><u><b>Mr. R00t</b></u></i></span>]] [[User Talk:1234r00t| <span style="color:#46520C"><sup><u><i>Talk</i></u></sup></span>]] 00:00, 12 July 2010 (UTC)
:::::::It's fixed now. [[User:1234r00t|<span style='color:#383132'><i><u><b>Mr. R00t</b></u></i></span>]] [[User Talk:1234r00t| <span style="color:#46520C"><sup><u><i>Talk</i></u></sup></span>]] 00:01, 12 July 2010 (UTC)
::::::::alright, I'm going to reopen the editprotected template. --[[User_talk:Ludwigs2|<span style="color:darkblue;font-weight:bold">Ludwigs</span><span style="color:green;font-weight:bold">2</span>]] 00:19, 12 July 2010 (UTC)
:::::::::{{done}}, I think. Just re-open if it wasn't implemented correctly. <code>[[User:Decltype|decltype]]</code> <small>([[User talk:Decltype|talk]])</small> 00:29, 12 July 2010 (UTC)
::::::::::Looks good and works as expected, thank you. however, if you're in the mood to do a little more I just noticed that the bit immediately following this change (the section on advice and opinions) is a bit whacked. it should be as follows, for consistency with the other sections:
<pre><big>'''Can I ask for advice or opinions, as opposed to references or information?'''</big><br>
* The reference desk does not answer ([[Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Guidelines/Medical_advice|and will probably remove]]) requests for [[Wikipedia:Medical disclaimer|medical]] or [[Wikipedia:Legal disclaimer|legal]] advice. Ask a doctor, dentist, veterinarian, or lawyer instead.
* The reference desk does not answer requests for [[opinions]] or predictions about future events. Do not start a debate; please seek an [[internet forum]] instead.</pre>
::::::::::I'll make a separate editprotected request if you don't get to it. --[[User_talk:Ludwigs2|<span style="color:darkblue;font-weight:bold">Ludwigs</span><span style="color:green;font-weight:bold">2</span>]] 00:56, 12 July 2010 (UTC)
== Search engine change ==
{{tlx|Editprotected}}
Per discussion at RD talk, the line:
:Many questions can be immediately answered by a simple <nowiki>[http://www.google.com google search]</nowiki>.
should be changed to:
:Please try <nowiki>[[internet search|searching the web]] using [[List of search engines|a web search engine]]</nowiki>.
Because this page is protected, I cannot make the change. -- [[User:Kainaw|<span style="color:#ff0000;">k</span><span style="color:#cc0033;">a</span><span style="color:#990066;">i</span><span style="color:#660099;">n</span><span style="color:#3300cc;">a</span><span style="color:#0000ff;">w</span>]][[User talk:Kainaw|™]] 12:56, 14 July 2010 (UTC)
:I added the editprotected template to speed this up. To the admin: [[Wikipedia_talk:Reference_desk#RD_Header|here is a link]] to the discussion on the refdesk talk page. [[Special:Contributions/Zain Ebrahim111|Zain Ebrahim]] ([[User talk:Zain Ebrahim111|talk]]) 15:08, 14 July 2010 (UTC)
::{{done}} — Martin <small>([[User:MSGJ|MSGJ]] · [[User talk:MSGJ|talk]])</small> 15:13, 14 July 2010 (UTC)
== wording change request ==
{{tlx|editprotected}}
please allow a day or two for discussion (if there is any) before implementing.
I'd like to make the following wording change. the line:
:"The reference desk does not answer ([[Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Guidelines/Medical_advice|and will probably remove]]) requests for [[Wikipedia:Medical disclaimer|medical]] or [[Wikipedia:Legal disclaimer|legal]] advice. Ask a doctor, dentist, veterinarian, or lawyer instead."
be changed to read as follows:
:"The reference desk will not answer (and will [[Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Guidelines/Medical_advice|usually remove]]) questions that require medical diagnosis or request medical opinions, or seek guidance on legal matters. Such questions should be directed to an appropriate professional, or brought to an internet site dedicated to [[List of search engines#Medical|medical]] or [[List of search engines#Legal|legal]] questions."
This should help end some protracted disputes over what questions and answers are appropriate on the reference desk. --[[User_talk:Ludwigs2|<span style="color:darkblue;font-weight:bold">Ludwigs</span><span style="color:green;font-weight:bold">2</span>]] 23:39, 19 October 2010 (UTC)
:I think this would be a useful change. '''Support''' and will come back in a few days and maybe do it myself. I'm not seeing any particular downside to this change. [[User:Franamax|Franamax]] ([[User talk:Franamax|talk]]) 02:18, 20 October 2010 (UTC)
::I '''oppose''' this change. Those removing such questions are going far beyond the policy as stated, but some of us oppose that.
::* Changing "'''requests for advice'''" to "'''questions that require diagnosis... or opinions... or guidance...'''" is a massive step in the wrong direction. It changes it from a simple evaluation of what's being posted to a guess about what a responder might "need" to do.
::* Changing "probably" to "usually" gives ground in their direction which I am unwilling to do.
::* I have removed the <nowiki><pre></nowiki> tags from the above proposed text and simply indented it, because I believe that the unreadability of the boxed text was designed to distract attention from these major changes.
: [[User:Wnt|Wnt]] ([[User talk:Wnt|talk]]) 03:33, 20 October 2010 (UTC)
{{done}}. Wnt: I'm not really sure what your problem with this edit is, but I see little strength in your argument. There is little difference in meaning between "probably" and "usually" and yet it seems to flow better. If you really think the pre tags were to distract attention you may want to go and read [[Wikipedia:Assume good faith]] again. — Martin <small>([[User:MSGJ|MSGJ]] · [[User talk:MSGJ|talk]])</small> 21:02, 20 October 2010 (UTC)
== Search box and search label need to be on one line ==
See '''[[Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)/Archive 200#How to search just the technical village pump archives?]]''' (now an '''archive link'''). <s>It may be found in the archives there by the time you read this.</s> Scroll down to the discussion concerning the Reference Desks.
See '''[[Special:Diff/1108768023]].''' Now the search box and search label is on one line. Search suggestions now do not block the search button on my monitor. This happens when the search button is below the search box.
I greatly increase my text size in my browser. That makes the search box and search label even wider. So further efforts have been made to allow search to work well in even narrower devices. Without the search button wrapping below the search box. See
'''[[Special:Diff/1109066550]].'''
The 2 search forms will wrap to 2 lines on narrower screens, or large enough text. Method is described here:
*'''[[Help:Table#Side by side tables]].''' Narrow your browser window to see below:
<div style=display:inline-table>
<inputbox>
type=fulltext
prefix=
break=no
width=30
placeholder = Search Wikipedia
searchbuttonlabel = 🔍
</inputbox>
</div>
<div style=display:inline-table>
</div>
<div style=display:inline-table>
<div style="height:5px"><!-- hidden margin --></div>
<inputbox>
type=fulltext
prefix=Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/{{SUBPAGENAME}}
break=no
width=30
placeholder = Search {{lc:{{SUBPAGENAME}}}} archives
searchbuttonlabel = 🔍
</inputbox>
</div>
To see it in use see:
*'''[[Wikipedia:Reference desk/Humanities]].'''
Or go to any of the other topic pages linked from here:
*'''[[Wikipedia:Reference desk]].'''
--[[User:Timeshifter|'''Timeshifter''']] ([[User talk:Timeshifter|talk]]) 19:29, 10 September 2022 (UTC)
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