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we only need to nowiki the brackets, not random strings of text
 
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{{Short description|Page for discussing mergers and deletions of templates}}
{{Wikipedia:Templates for deletion/Header}}
{{Redirect|WP:TFD|the page used for TimedText or talk page deletion discussions|Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion|a list of templates used for discussion|Wikipedia:List of discussion templates}}
==Stub templates for deletion==
{{pp-move-indef}}
{{main|Wikipedia:Stub types for deletion}}
{{sfd-currentoffer help}}
{{#ifexpr:{{#invoke:XfD old|total|title=Wikipedia:Templates for discussion}}>10|{{Admin backlog|bot=AnomieBOT}}}}
{{floating link|Closing instructions}}
<div class="tfd-header">
{{Ombox
| style = text-align: center
| type = notice
| image = none
| text = {{hlist|''[[#toc|Skip to table of contents]]''|''[[#Current discussions|Skip to current discussions]]''|''{{Purge|Purge this page}}''}}<inputbox>
type=fulltext
prefix=Wikipedia:Templates for d
break=no
width=50
placeholder=Enter &#x5b;&#x5b;Template:Example&#x5d;&#x5d; to find a discussion
searchbuttonlabel=Search archives
</inputbox>
| imageright = {{Shortcut|WP:TFD}}
}}
{{XFD backlog|right}}
{{Deletion debates}}
 
On this page, the deletion or merging of '''[[Help:Template|templates]]''' and '''[[Wikipedia:Lua|modules]]''', with a few [[#What not to propose for discussion here|exceptions]], is discussed.
==Listings==
{{TOC limit|3}}
 
==How to use this page==
'''Adding a listing'''
===<span id="NOT"></span> What ''not'' to propose for discussion here===
*Please put new listings under [[#{{CURRENTMONTHNAME}} {{CURRENTDAY}}|today's date ({{CURRENTMONTHNAMEGEN}} {{CURRENTDAY}})]] at the '''''top of the section'''''.
{{shortcut|WP:TFD#NOT}}
*When listing a template here, don't forget to add '''<nowiki>{{tfd|TemplateName}}</nowiki>''' to the template or its talk page, and to '''give notice''' of its proposed deletion at relevant talk pages.
The majority of deletion and merger proposals concerning pages in the [[WP:Template namespace|template namespace]] and [[WP:Lua|module namespace]] should be listed on this page. However, there are a few exceptions:
 
; Stub templates
=== October 23 ===
: Stub templates and categories should be listed at [[WP:CFD|Categories for discussion]], as these templates are merely containers for their categories, ''unless'' the stub template does not come with a category and is being nominated by itself.
; Userboxes
: Userboxes should be listed at [[WP:MFD|Miscellany for deletion]], regardless of the namespace in which they reside.
; Speedy deletion candidates
: If the template clearly satisfies a [[WP:CSD|criterion for speedy deletion]], tag it with a [[:Category:Speedy deletion templates|speedy deletion template]]. For example, if you wrote the template and request its deletion, tag it with {{t|Db-author}}. See also [[WP:T5]].
; Policy or guideline templates
: Templates that are associated with particular [[WP:PAG|Wikipedia policies or guidelines]], such as the [[:Category:Speedy deletion templates|speedy deletion templates]], cannot be listed at TfD separately. They should be discussed on the talk page of the relevant guideline.
; Template redirects
: List all redirects at [[WP:RFD|Redirects for discussion]].
; Moving and renaming a template
: Use [[Wikipedia:Requested moves|Requested moves]].
 
===<span class="anchor" id="REASONS"></span> Reasons to delete a template===
====[[Template:MobilePhoneNetworks]]====
{{shortcut|WP:TFD#REASONS}}
# The template violates some part of the [[WP:TMP|template namespace guidelines]], and can't be altered to be in compliance.
# The template is redundant to a better-designed template.
# The template is not used, either directly or by [[WP:SUBST|template substitution]] (the latter cannot be concluded from the absence of backlinks), {{Strong|and has no likelihood of {{em|being}} used}}.
# The template violates a policy such as [[WP:NPOV|Neutral point of view]] or [[WP:CIVIL|Civility]] and it can't be fixed through normal editing.
 
Templates should not be nominated if the issue can be fixed by normal editing. Instead, you should edit the template to fix its problems. If the template is complex and you don't know how to fix it, [[WP:WPT|WikiProject Templates]] may be able to help.
I bet we don't need a box bigger than most of the articles in it. [[User:Snowspinner|Snowspinner]] 04:31, 24 October 2005 (UTC)
 
Templates for which none of these apply may be deleted by [[Wikipedia:Consensus|consensus]] here. If a template is being misused, consider clarifying its documentation to indicate the correct use, or informing those that misuse it, rather than nominating it for deletion. Initiate a discussion on the template talk page if the correct use itself is under debate.
====[[Template:Afdm]]====
Fork of [[Template:Afd]] for a non-existent analogue to [[WP:AFD]], [[Wikipedia:Articles to move]]. I replaced it on [[List of sexual slang]] and [[Body parts slang]] with the standard afd template, since the articles to move subpages were redlinks, and the articles for deletion links were hard to spot. An separate articles-to-move process wouldn't be terribly helpful anyway; the volume's too low. (See, for example, [[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Old/Transwiki]].) &mdash;[[User:Cryptic|Cryptic]] [[User talk:Cryptic|(talk)]] 22:56, 23 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' as instruction creep. I've seen a few debates over moving content to other WP-related sites and never had any problem with simply using the talk page to mull it over or take a vote. &mdash;<span class="horsepunchkid">[[User:HorsePunchKid|<span style="font-family: monospace; font-variant: small-caps;">HorsePunchKid</span>]]&rarr;[[User talk:HorsePunchKid|<span style="color: #070;">&#x9F9C;</span>]]</span> 23:14, 23 October 2005 (UTC)
 
===Listing a template===
==== [[Template:GoogleCRAWL]] ====
{{shortcut|WP:TFDHOWTO|WP:TFDHOW}}
The template appears to be a warning similar to [[Template:AOL]], but its creation was misguided - the creator is confusing Google's WAP proxy with Google's web indexing bot. If people are using Google's WAP proxy for vandalism, they should be blocked from editing just like any other vandal. This won't affect the Googlebot, which does not edit Wikipedia. The warning is incorrect and unnecessary. [[User:Rhobite|Rhobite]] 19:44, 23 October 2005 (UTC)
{{Strong|To list a template for deletion or merging, follow the three-step process below.}} Do {{em|not}} include the "Template:" prefix in any of the steps.
*'''Delete.''' ~~ '''[[User:Nickptar|N]]''' ([[User talk:Nickptar|t]]/[[Special:Contributions/Nickptar|c]]) 19:56, 23 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Delete'''. Dangerous, as it shields vandals for no reason. [[User:Christopherparham|Christopher Parham]] [[User_talk:Christopherparham|(talk)]] 23:36, 23 October 2005 (UTC)
 
If you have never nominated a template for deletion or used [[WP:Twinkle|Twinkle]] before, you might want to do it manually to avoid making mistakes. For more experienced editors, using Twinkle is recommended, as it automates some of these steps. (After navigating to the template you want to nominate, click its dropdown menu in the top right of the page: TW [[File:OOjs UI icon caretDown.svg|15px|link=]], and then select "XFD".)
==== [[Template: Playstation Portable ]]====
{| class="wikitable" style="clear: both;"
'''Delete''': It isn't being used by any articles and not really needed for the [[PlayStation Portable]] article since the links on the template are already in the relevant sections. [[User:Thorpe|<font style="background: #E8F3FF" face="Trebuchet MS" color=#0088BB>'''&nbsp;Thorpe&nbsp;''']]<sup>[[User talk:Thorpe|talk</font>]]</sup><small> 16:37, 23 October 2005 (UTC)
|- id="Step I"
! scope="row" style="background-color: #ffff99;" | Step 1
Tag the template
| style="padding: 0.5em;" | '''Paste one of the following notices to the top of the template page:'''
* '''For deletion:''' {{Tlxs|Tfd}}
* For deletion of a sidebar or infobox template: {{Tlxs|Tfd|2=type=sidebar}}
* For deletion of an inline template: {{Tlxs|Tfd|2=type=inline}} and don't add a newline after the notice.
* '''For merging:''' {{Tlxs|Tfm|{{var|{{Gray|name of other template}}}}}}
* For merging an inline template: {{Tlxs|Tfm|2=type=inline|3={{var|{{Gray|name of other template to be merged}}}}}} and don't add a newline after the notice.
* To delete a [[Help:Module|module]] or a different type of template, see {{section link|Template:Template for discussion#Display on articles}}
 
'''Note:'''
==== [[Template: Felonious ]]====
* If the template is [[Wikipedia:Page protection|protected]], request that the TfD notice be added on the template's talk page using the {{Tlx|editprotected}} template, to catch the attention of [[Wikipedia:Administrators|administrators]] or [[Wikipedia:Template editors|template editors]].
''''''Delete'''''': Highly POV and just plain silly. See also Template:Politician below. [[User:SCZenz|SCZenz]] 09:56, 23 October 2005 (UTC)
* If the template is designed to be [[WP:SUBST|substituted]], add {{tag|noinclude}} around the TfD notice to prevent it from being substituted alongside the template. Example: <code><nowiki><noinclude></nowiki><nowiki>{{subst:Tfd}}</nowiki><nowiki></noinclude></nowiki></code>
*'''Speedy delete''', since this one does count as an attack template. [[User:Titoxd|Tito]]<font color="#008000">[[Wikipedia:Esperanza|xd]]</font><sup>([[User_talk:Titoxd|?!?]])</sup> 22:30, 23 October 2005 (UTC)
* Use an edit summary like<br /><code>Nominated for deletion/merging; see <nowiki>[[Wikipedia:Templates for discussion#</nowiki>Template:{{var|{{Gray|name of template}}}}<nowiki>]]</nowiki></code>
* Before saving your edit, preview the page to ensure the TfD notice is displayed properly.
 
<hr style="margin-top:1em; margin-bottom:1em;" />
====[[Template:Infobox Town noE]], [[Template:Infobox Town noCM]], and [[Template:Infobox Town noC]]====
All three of these templates are now redundant and currently unused in any articles after the recent changes to [[Template:Infobox Town]]. [[User:Zzyzx11|Zzyzx11]] [[User talk:Zzyzx11|(Talk)]] 06:35, 23 October 2005 (UTC)
 
; Multiple templates: If you are nominating multiple templates, choose a meaningful title for the discussion (like "[[Wikipedia:Templates for deletion/Log/2008 August 14#American films by decade|American films by decade templates]]"). Tag every template with {{Tlxs|Tfd|2=heading={{var|{{Gray|discussion title}}}}}} or {{Tlxs|Tfm|{{var|{{Gray|name of other template}}}}|3=heading={{var|{{Gray|discussion title}}}}}} instead of the versions given above, replacing <code>{{var|discussion title}}</code> with the title you chose (but still not changing the <code>PAGENAME</code> code).
====[[Template:Infobox Country2]]====
; Related categories: If including template-populated tracking categories in the TfD nomination, paste {{Tlx|Catfd|{{var|{{Gray|template name}}}}}} to the top of any categories that could be deleted as a result of the TfD, replacing <code>{{var|template name}}</code> with the name of the nominated template. (If you instead nominated multiple templates, use the meaningful title you chose earlier: {{Tlx|Catfd|2=header={{var|{{Gray|title of nomination}}}}}}.)
Unused. Found in the main namespace with an incomplete afd stuck to it. Be sure and delete its [[Infobox Country2|redirect]] regardless if it survives. &mdash;[[User:Cryptic|Cryptic]] [[User talk:Cryptic|(talk)]] 04:48, 23 October 2005 (UTC)
; TemplateStyles pages: If you are nominating [[WP:TemplateStyles|TemplateStyles]] pages, these templates won't work. Instead, paste this CSS comment to the top of the page:
*'''Comment''' This appears to be a customized variant of {{tl|Infobox Country}} intended for countries such as [[India]] that have an [[emblem]] instead of a [[coat of arms]]. [[User:Caerwine|Caerwine]] 14:29, 23 October 2005 (UTC)
:<code>/* This template is being discussed in accordance with Wikipedia's deletion policy. Help reach a consensus at its entry: <nowiki>https://</nowiki>en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/{{CURRENTYEAR}}_{{CURRENTMONTHNAME}}_{{CURRENTDAY}}#Template:{{var|{{Gray|template_name}}}}.css */</code>
 
|- id="Step II"
====[[Template:Infobox formerband]]====
! scope="row" style="background-color: #ffcc00;" | Step 2
Unused. Found in the main namespace with an incomplete afd stuck to it. Be sure and delete its [[Infobox formerband|redirect]] regardless if it survives. &mdash;[[User:Cryptic|Cryptic]] [[User talk:Cryptic|(talk)]] 04:48, 23 October 2005 (UTC)
List the template
| style="padding: 0.75em;" | {{Clickable button|Edit today's TfD log|url={{fullurl:Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/{{CURRENTYEAR}} {{CURRENTMONTHNAME}} {{CURRENTDAY}}|action=edit&section=1}}|class=mw-ui-progressive}} '''and paste the following text to the top of the list''':
 
* '''For deletion:''' {{Tlxs|Tfd2|{{var|{{Gray|template name}}}}|text{{=}}{{var|{{Gray|Why you think the template should be deleted.}}}} <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>}}
It is being used in the [[5ive|Five]] article. It can be used for other defunct bands. [[User:Sarz|Sarz]] 06:33, 23 October 2005 (UTC)
* '''For merging:''' {{Tlxs|Tfm2|{{var|{{Gray|template name}}}}|{{var|{{Gray|other template's name}}}}|text{{=}}{{var|{{Gray|Why you think the templates should be merged.}}}} <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>}}
 
If the template has had previous TfDs, you can add {{tlx|Oldtfdlist|{{var|{{Gray|previous TfD without square brackets}}}}|{{var|{{Gray|result of previous TfD}}}}}} in the {{para|text}} field immediately before your rationale (or alternatively at the very end, after the last <code><nowiki>}}</nowiki></code>).
====[[Template:USactpresidents]]====
<strike>[[David Rice Atchison]] cannot be president, as he has been dead for 119 years. ''(Joke template.)'' -[[User:Silence|Silence]] 04:02, 23 October 2005 (UTC)</strike>
Officially, only two [[Acting President of the United States|Acting President of the United States]] have ever existed: GHWB and Dick Cheney. Templates for only two articles are extraneous and clutter up important pages; just mentioning it in the text of the article makes more sense.
 
Use an edit summary such as <code>Adding deletion/merger nomination of <nowiki>[[</nowiki>Template:{{var|{{Gray|template name}}}}<nowiki>]]</nowiki></code>.
*'''Comment''': Perhaps I'm not getting the joke, but I think you have misunderstood the template. See [[David Rice Atchison#President for a day... or was he?]], maybe? &mdash;<span class="horsepunchkid">[[User:HorsePunchKid|<span style="font-family: monospace; font-variant: small-caps;">HorsePunchKid</span>]]&rarr;[[User talk:HorsePunchKid|<span style="color: #070;">&#x9F9C;</span>]]</span> 04:40, 23 October 2005 (UTC)
:<strike>It's a joke based on the longstanding legend that Atchison briefly served as president between two actual presidents' terms. Atchison was never officially president, but the creator of this template decided to have a little ha-ha about the fact that he was never sworn ''out'', therefore one could still consider him president along with George W. Bush, by some elaborate mangling of the way U.S. presidencies work. And then I think he also included "Dick Cheney" to allude to the common joke about Cheney being the president for all practical purposes, the guy "pulling the strings" behind Bush. In both Cheney's and Atchison's cases, it's untrue, and that would leave a whole redundant template for whoever's the current president, which is already covered by the U.S. presidential succession box. Get the joke now? -[[User:Silence|Silence]] 04:50, 23 October 2005 (UTC)</strike>
::Well, perhaps Atchison should be removed, then, but [[GHWB]] (which you incorrectly changed to the current Bush) and [[Dick Cheney]] were both Acting President briefly, right? (Search for ''acting'' in either of those articles.) Both for [[colon]]-related reasons, interestingly. <tt>:)</tt> &mdash;<span class="horsepunchkid">[[User:HorsePunchKid|<span style="font-family: monospace; font-variant: small-caps;">HorsePunchKid</span>]]&rarr;[[User talk:HorsePunchKid|<span style="color: #070;">&#x9F9C;</span>]]</span> 04:56, 23 October 2005 (UTC)
::[http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=1960579 This article] from [[NPR]] is a good confirmation, if you'd prefer a non-Wikipedia reference. &mdash;<span class="horsepunchkid">[[User:HorsePunchKid|<span style="font-family: monospace; font-variant: small-caps;">HorsePunchKid</span>]]&rarr;[[User talk:HorsePunchKid|<span style="color: #070;">&#x9F9C;</span>]]</span> 05:17, 23 October 2005 (UTC)
:::Urk. Confused "acting president" with "current president", assumed bad faith, jumped to huge conclusions, failed to check all relevant links before VfTing. How world-shatteringly mortifying. That, or not a big deal and just a silly mistake. Either way, ignore all my comments about it being a joke. (I think. It still ''almost'' reeks of parody.) Though now I have a totally unrelated new justification for TfD: Do we need a template that only relates to two people? There, much better. -[[User:Silence|Silence]] 05:25, 23 October 2005 (UTC)
::::Well, we don't need a template ''that big'' for just two people. <tt>:)</tt> I'll see if I can trim it down a bit. Maybe this could just be a category instead? &mdash;<span class="horsepunchkid">[[User:HorsePunchKid|<span style="font-family: monospace; font-variant: small-caps;">HorsePunchKid</span>]]&rarr;[[User talk:HorsePunchKid|<span style="color: #070;">&#x9F9C;</span>]]</span> 22:15, 23 October 2005 (UTC)
:'''Categorize''', a template for only two Vice-Presidents is unnecessary. [[User:Titoxd|Tito]]<font color="#008000">[[Wikipedia:Esperanza|xd]]</font><sup>([[User_talk:Titoxd|?!?]])</sup> 22:22, 23 October 2005 (UTC)
::Is a category ''or'' a template (even a small template) necessary for only ''two'' people? The whole points of templates and categories of this sort is to easily navigate fairly long lists of links and thus quickly reach the many other people who have something in common with the guy you started from! When there's only two people, the usefulness is very minimal, no matter how small the template is (and it's much more managable now, at least). I'm sure in a few decades we'll probably have a couple more Acting Presidents to add to the template and it'll be somewhat useful then, but until that happens I really don't see the point. -[[User:Silence|Silence]] 23:31, 23 October 2005 (UTC)
:::To boot, there is already a very detailed article, [[Acting President of the United States]], that lists people who have held the title. I believe both (or all three) pages about said people already link to that article. &mdash;<span class="horsepunchkid">[[User:HorsePunchKid|<span style="font-family: monospace; font-variant: small-caps;">HorsePunchKid</span>]]&rarr;[[User talk:HorsePunchKid|<span style="color: #070;">&#x9F9C;</span>]]</span> 02:59, 24 October 2005 (UTC)
 
<hr style="margin-top:1em; margin-bottom:1em;" />
=== October 22 ===
====[[Template:XGSC image]]====
All images which used this template have been moved to commons, and there is no reason why any future images should be uploaded here instead of in commons. See [[:commons:Template:XGSC image]]. [[User:Thue|Thue]] | [[User talk:Thue|talk]] 21:35, 22 October 2005 (UTC)
 
; Multiple templates: If you are nominating multiple templates, paste the following code instead. You can add up to 50 template names (separated by vertical bar characters <code>|</code>). Use the same meaningful title that you chose in Step 1.
====[[Template:Politician]]====
:* Multiple templates for deletion: {{Tlxs|Tfd2|{{var|{{Gray|template name 1}}}}|{{var|{{Gray|template name 2 ...}}}}|title{{=}}{{var|{{Gray|meaningful title}}}}|text{{=}}{{var|{{Gray|Why you think the templates should be deleted.}}}} <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>}}
One look at it shows why it should be deleted. '''POV'''.--May the Force be with you! [[User:Shreshth91|Shreshth91]]<small>[[User talk:Shreshth91|<font color=green>($ |-| r 3 $ |-| t |-|)</font>]]</small> 09:10, 22 October 2005 (UTC)
:* Multiple templates for merging: {{Tlxs|Tfm2|{{var|{{Gray|template name 1}}}}|{{var|{{Gray|template name 2 ...}}}}|with{{=}}{{var|{{Gray|main template (optional)}}}}|title{{=}}{{var|{{Gray|meaningful title}}}}|text{{=}}{{var|{{Gray|Why you think the templates should be merged.}}}} <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>}}
*'''Delete''' uncivil nonsense. -[[User:GregAsche|Greg Asche]] [[User_talk:GregAsche|(talk)]] 00:29, 23 October 2005 (UTC)
:** If there is a template you want the other templates to be merged into, you can optionally specify it using {{para|with}}.
*'''Delete''' POV [[User:Erikssond|Drdan]] 21:17, 23 October 2005 (UTC)
; Related categories: If this template deletion proposal involves a category populated solely by templates, paste this code in the {{para|text}} field of the <code><nowiki>{{Tfd2}}</nowiki></code> template, before your rationale: {{Tlxs|Catfd2|{{var|{{Gray|category name}}}}}}
*'''Delete''', although it is very close to being [[WP:CSD]] material. [[User:Titoxd|Tito]]<font color="#008000">[[Wikipedia:Esperanza|xd]]</font><sup>([[User_talk:Titoxd|?!?]])</sup> 22:24, 23 October 2005 (UTC)
|- id="Step III"
! scope="row" style="background-color: orange" | Step 3
Notify users
| style="padding: 0.5em;" | Notify the creator of the template, the main contributors, and (if you're proposing a merger) the creator of the other template. (To find them, look in the [[Help:Page history|page history]] or [[Help:Talk page|talk page]] of the template.) To do this, paste one of the following in their user talk pages:
 
* '''For deletion:''' {{Tlxs|Tfd notice|{{var|{{Gray|template name}}}}}} <code><nowiki>~~~~</nowiki></code>
==== [[Template:White Rajah]]====
* '''For merging:''' {{Tlxs|Tfm notice|{{var|{{Gray|template name}}}}|{{var|{{Gray|other template's name}}}}}} <code><nowiki>~~~~</nowiki></code>
'''Delete''': Serves no purpose. Technically the content seems like an article. It is re-created (see [[Wikipedia:Templates_for_deletion/Log/Deleted/October_2005#Template:White_Rajah|here]]). --[[User:*drew|*drew]] 08:00, 22 October 2005 (UTC)
* '''Multiple templates:''' There is no template for notifying an editor about a multiple-template nomination. In these cases, write a personal message.
*'''Speedy delete''', as it falls under [[WP:CSD|CSD]] G4 (recreation of previously deleted content). [[User:Titoxd|Tito]]<font color="#008000">[[Wikipedia:Esperanza|xd]]</font><sup>([[User_talk:Titoxd|?!?]])</sup> 08:04, 22 October 2005 (UTC)
==== [[Template:Untrustworthy]]====
'''Delete''' This ''template'' is POV. It states that the contents in the article are not trustworthy and that one should proceed with caution. It is also a borderline [[Wikipedia:Disclaimer_templates]]. -- [[User:Bmicomp|BMIComp]] [[User_talk:bmicomp|(talk]], [[User:bmicomp/RfC|HOWS MY DRIVING)]] 08:36, 22 October 2005 (UTC)
:'''BJAODN''' <small>[[User:RN|Ryan Norton]] <sup><font color="#6BA800">[[User talk:RN|T]]</font> | <font color="#0033FF">[[Special:Emailuser/RN|@]]</font> | <font color="#FF0000">[[Special:Contributions/RN|C]]</font></sup></small> 08:39, 22 October 2005 (UTC)
::Doesn't belong in Wikipedia at all. Speedy deleted and moved to BJAODN. <span style="border: 2px solid #ba0000;">&nbsp;[[User:Denelson83|Denelson]][[User talk:Denelson83|'''83''']]&nbsp;</span> 08:44, 22 October 2005 (UTC)
 
If you see any [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Directory|WikiProjects]] banners ([[Template:WikiProject banner shell/testcases#Template|they look like this]]) at the top of the template's talk page, you can let them know about the discussion. Most WikiProjects are subscribed to [[Wikipedia:Article alerts|Article alerts]], which means they are automatically notified. If you think they have not been notified, you can paste the same message in the projects' talk pages, or use [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Compact|Deletion sorting lists]]. Note that Twinkle does not notify WikiProjects.
=== October 21 ===
|}
==== [[Template: welcome5 ]]====
'''Delete''': We already have more than enough welcoming templates, we don't need every single user to make a seperated welcome-template..it'd be flooding Wikipedia with superfluousness -- [[User:SoothingR|SoothingR]] 07:46, 22 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Delete''', or at least make it usable by more than just the one user. — [[User:Ceejayoz|ceejayoz]] <sup><font color="darkred">[[User_talk:Ceejayoz|&#9733;]]</font> <font color="darkred">[http://ceejayoz.com/ .com]</font></sup> 22:17, 22 October 2005 (UTC)
*''' Delete'''. Death to personalized templates!--May the Force be with you! [[User:Shreshth91|Shreshth91]]<small>[[User talk:Shreshth91|<font color=green>($ |-| r 3 $ |-| t |-|)</font>]]</small> 09:49, 23 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Move''' to a subpage of this user's user page. [[User:Jhs|Jon Harald Søby]] \ <sup>[[:no:Bruker:Jhs|no]] [[:na:User:Jon Harald Søby|na]]</sup> 13:02, 23 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Userfy''', no need to delete this. [[User:Titoxd|Tito]]<font color="#008000">[[Wikipedia:Esperanza|xd]]</font><sup>([[User_talk:Titoxd|?!?]])</sup> 22:27, 23 October 2005 (UTC)
 
Consider adding any templates you nominate to your watchlist. This will help ensure that your nomination notice is not mistakenly or deliberately removed.
==== [[Template:United States Junior High and Secondary School ]]====
'''Delete:''': I created this template as part of the [[Wikipedia: WikiProject Schools|WikiProject Schools]] because this template allowed a listing for additional administrators (vice principal, guidance counselor, etc.) What I did not realize was that another template, [[Template:U.S. School]], could be modified to allow the extra members of the adminstration to be listed, so as such this template is unnecessary and should be deleted.--[[User:D-Day|D-Day]] 20:39, 21 October 2005 (UTC)
: '''Delete''', per nom. I would have said speedy delete under [[WP:CSD|CSD]] G7, but [[User:Sasa Stefanovic|Sasa Stefanovic]] has modified it, so that won't work. [[User:Titoxd|Tito]]<font color="#008000">[[Wikipedia:Esperanza|xd]]</font><sup>([[User_talk:Titoxd|?!?]])</sup> 22:06, 21 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' per nom. [[User:*drew|*drew]] 07:50, 22 October 2005 (UTC)
 
=== After nominating: Notify interested projects and editors ===
==== [[Template: History of literature ]]====
While it is sufficient to list a template for discussion at TfD, nominators and others sometimes want to attract more attention from and participation by informed editors. All such efforts must comply with [[WP:CANVASS|Wikipedia's guideline against biased canvassing]].
'''Delete''': This template is large and intrusive. It takes up half the screen and is very long and has a giant out-of-focus picture of unrelated books. Examples at [[Matter of Britain]] and [[Latin literature]] among others. [[User:Stbalbach|Stbalbach]] 18:08, 21 October 2005 (UTC)
*Agreed. '''Delete''', or replace with something much smaller. - [[User:SimonP|SimonP]] 18:37, 21 October 2005 (UTC)
**This my first template. I created it a few days ago and have now tweaked it to a smaller width and image. It would be more constructive to post a message to me suggesting changes rather than going straight to the most extreme option available (i.e: deletion) we're all trying to make this encyclopedia the best it can be. Going straight to the deletion option without even discussing the matter with the person who's created it is destructive. I hope the smaller image and slimmer box is an improvement. I can, of course, take a different photo with a new selection of books, or leave out the image altogether. ''Constructive'' suggestions please... --[[User:Wayland|wayland]] 14:28, 23 October 2005 (UTC)
 
To encourage participation by less experienced editors, avoid Wikipedia-specific abbreviations in the messages you leave about the discussion, link to any relevant policies or guidelines, and link to the TfD discussion page itself. If you are recommending that a template be speedily deleted, please give the [[Wikipedia:Criteria for speedy deletion|criterion]] that it meets.
==== [[Template:POV-AIC]] ====
I don't like the idea of specialized POV templates. First, it's [[m:Instruction creep|instruction creep]]. Second, shunting articles aside in a subcategory of [[:Category:NPOV disputes]] might distract attention from articles that need it. [[User:Szyslak|<font color=green>{{IPA|s&#618;zl&#230;k}}</font>]] [ [[User talk:Szyslak|+t]], [[Special:Contributions/Szyslak|+c]], [[Special:Emailuser/Szyslak|+m]], <font color=green>[[Wikipedia:Esperanza|+e]]</font> ] 10:18, 21 October 2005 (UTC)
:<s>Note: I've also nominated the category it populates, [[:Category:Arab-Israeli conflict NPOV disputes]], for deletion [[Wikipedia:Categories for deletion#Category:Arab-Israeli conflict NPOV disputes|here]]. [[User:Szyslak|<font color=green>{{IPA|s&#618;zl&#230;k}}</font>]] [ [[User talk:Szyslak|+t]], [[Special:Contributions/Szyslak|+c]], [[Special:Emailuser/Szyslak|+m]], <font color=green>[[Wikipedia:Esperanza|+e]]</font> ] 10:30, 21 October 2005 (UTC)</s> Whoops, didn't realize the cat would be automatically deleted and the CFD would be unnecessary. Eh, you live and learn. [[User:Szyslak|<font color=green>{{IPA|s&#618;zl&#230;k}}</font>]] [ [[User talk:Szyslak|+t]], [[Special:Contributions/Szyslak|+c]], [[Special:Emailuser/Szyslak|+m]], <font color=green>[[Wikipedia:Esperanza|+e]]</font> ] 07:18, 22 October 2005 (UTC)
* '''Delete'''. You're correct. Also, besides being unnecessary, the template's POV in itself. Why is the Arab-Israeli conflict such an important POV dispute? [[User:Superm401|Superm401]] | [[User_talk:Superm401|Talk]] 00:46, 22 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' concurring with [[User:Superm401|Superm401]]. -- [[User:NSLE|NSLE]] <sub>([[User_talk:NSLE|Communicate!]])</sub> <sup><[[Special:Contributions/NSLE|Contribs]]></sup> 00:48, 22 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Delete'''. If we had content-specific NPOV notices, I would shutter to think the templates we would see.--[[User:Pharos|Pharos]] 09:12, 23 October 2005 (UTC)
 
* '''Notifying related WikiProjects:''' [[WP:WikiProject|WikiProjects]] are groups of editors that are interested in a particular subject or type of editing. If the article is within the scope of one or more WikiProjects, they may welcome a brief, neutral note on their project's talk page(s) about the TfD. You can use {{Tls|Tfd notice}} for this. Tagging the nominated template's talk page with a relevant Wikiproject's banner will result in the template being listed in that project's ''[[WP:AALERTS|Article Alerts]]'' automatically, if they are [[Wikipedia:Article_alerts/Subscription_list|subscribed to the system]]. For instance, tagging a template with {{tl|WikiProject Physics}} will list the discussion in [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Physics/Article alerts]].
=== October 20 ===
* '''Notifying main contributors:''' While not required, it is generally considered courteous to notify the creator and any main contributors of the template and its talk page that you are nominating for discussion. To find the creator and main contributors, look in the [[Help:Page history|page history]] or [[Help:Talk page|talk page]].
 
At this point, no further action is necessary on your part. Sometime after seven days have passed, someone other than you will either close the discussion or, if needed, "[[WP:RELIST|relist]]" it for another seven days of discussion. If the nomination is successful, it will be moved to the [[WP:TFDH|Holding Cell]] until the change is implemented. There is no requirement for nominators to be part of the implementation process, but they are allowed to if they so wish.
==== [[Template: WorldTagTeamChampions ]]====
'''Delete''': This table is huge and it's only going to get larger as new champions are added to it. It restates information available in the in-depth [[List of World Tag-Team Champions]] and since the table is so big it's difficult to serve as a useful form of navigation. --[[User:Jtalledo|Jtalledo]] [[User_talk:Jtalledo|(talk)]] 17:17, 20 October 2005 (UTC)
 
==Discussion==
'''Delete''' - ↪[[User:Lakes|Lakes]] 17:26, 20 October 2005 (UTC)
Anyone can join the discussion, but please understand the [[WP:deletion policy|deletion policy]] and explain your reasoning.
 
People will sometimes also recommend '''[[Wikipedia:Template substitution|subst]]''', '''subst and delete''', or similar. This means they think the template text should be "[[Hard coding|hard-coded]]" into the articles that are currently using it. Depending on the content, the template itself may then be deleted; if preserving the edit history for attribution is desirable, it may be [[Wikipedia:History merging|history-merged]] with the target article or moved to mainspace and redirected.
*'''Delete'''. [[User:McPhail|McPhail]] 17:38, 20 October 2005 (UTC)
 
Templates are rarely orphaned—that is, removed from pages that transclude them—before the discussion is closed. A list of open discussions eligible for closure can be found at [[Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Old unclosed discussions]].
*'''Take from articles'''. i guess we should '''''delete''''' it but i think we should keep one copy (just cus alot of effort must have went into that)... also we must remeber all these tables are going to get this size sooner or later -- [[User:Paulley|Paulley]] 18:00, 20 October 2005 (UTC)
 
=== Closing discussion ===
*'''Subst''' into [[List of World Tag-Team Champions]] (which could actually use it) and replace with {{tl|otherarticles-alph}}. [[User:Pmanderson|Septentrionalis]] 19:33, 20 October 2005 (UTC)
Administrators should read the [[Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Closing instructions|closing instructions]] before closing a nomination. Note that [[WP:XFDcloser]] semi-automates this process and ensures all of the appropriate steps are taken.
*'''Delete'''. [[User:Evil Monkey|Evil Monkey]]&#8756;[[User talk:Evil Monkey|Hello]] 11:07, 21 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Delete'''. [[User:*drew|*drew]] 07:50, 22 October 2005 (UTC)
 
</div>
*''' Do not Delete''' - Anonymous ??:??, 22 October 2005 (UTC) - split it into Tag Team Champions by decade. Eg. Tag Team Champions, 1980-1989.
 
== Current discussions ==
*'''Delete'''. --[[User:Lbmixpro|LBMixPro]][[User talk:Lbmixpro|<sup><span style="text-decoration: none;">(Speak on it!)</span></sup>]] 20:46, 22 October 2005 (UTC)
{{Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/{{ #time: Y F j }}}}
{{Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/{{ #time: Y F j | -1 days }}}}
{{Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/{{ #time: Y F j | -2 days }}}}
{{Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/{{ #time: Y F j | -3 days }}}}
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{{Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/{{ #time: Y F j | -5 days }}}}
{{Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/{{ #time: Y F j | -6 days }}}}
{{Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/{{ #time: Y F j | -7 days }}}}
 
== Old discussions ==
*<s>'''Split''' as per the Anonymous guy above</s> '''Delete'''. I don't know what I was thinking (how do you split a template)--May the Force be with you! [[User:Shreshth91|Shreshth91]]<small>[[User talk:Shreshth91|<font color=green>($ |-| r 3 $ |-| t |-|)</font>]]</small> 09:53, 23 October 2005 (UTC)
{{#invoke:XfD old|transclude}}
 
== Completed discussions ==
==== [[Template:Offensive/StealthVersion]]====
A list of completed discussions that still require action taken on the template(s) — for example, a merge between two infoboxes — can be found at [[Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Holding cell|the "Holding Cell"]].
'''Delete''': Sneaky insertion of Category: Wikipedia offensive material. &mdash;&nbsp;[[User:Davenbelle|Davenbelle]] 07:18, 20 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Delete'''. ~⌈[[User:Markaci|Mar]][[User_talk:Markaci|'''ka''']][[Special:Contributions/Markaci|''ci'']]⌋ <small>2005-10-20 T 09:17:44 Z</small>
*'''Delete''', inherently anti-Wiki. --[[User:Angr|Angr]]/[[User_talk:Angr|<sub>{{IPA|tɔk tə mi}}</sub>]] 09:21, 20 October 2005 (UTC)
*No there is nothing sneaky about it. The category should be renamed or removed. There are other stealth templates such as [[Template:Interwikiconflict]]. -- [[User:Zondor|Zondor]] 09:29, 20 October 2005 (UTC) "Offensive" can be renamed to something else like "objectionable" -- [[User:Zondor|Zondor]] 09:33, 20 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Speedy delete'''. This proposal (censorship tagging) has been rejected time and again under many names. --[[User:Fubar Obfusco|FOo]] 10:10, 20 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' <nowiki>{{My usual comments why we should not have these templates}}</nowiki>--[[User:Clawed|Clawed]] 10:37, 20 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Delete'''. [[WP:POINT]]. Please stop creating new offensive material templates. [[User:Rhobite|Rhobite]] 12:29, 20 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Speedy delete'''--[[User:Cyberjunkie|Cyberjunkie]] | [[User_talk:Cyberjunkie|Talk]] 12:31, 20 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Delete''', offensiveness marking is POV no matter what. ~~ '''[[User:Nickptar|N]]''' ([[User talk:Nickptar|t]]/[[Special:Contributions/Nickptar|c]]) 14:13, 20 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Delete'''. Serves no purpose. [[User:Kaldari|Kaldari]] 14:33, 20 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''strong delete''' Absolutely '''any''' attempt to indicate that certian pages are offensive ot contain offensive content is inherently PoV. Who deciedes. The fact that this version is realaitely unobtrusive makes that '''worse''', not better. Please don't create any more versions of this template. [[User:DESiegel|DES]] [[User talk:DESiegel|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] 15:50, 20 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Delete'''. I am offended being labeled offensive. ;-) --'''>:''' [[User:RobyWayne|'''Roby Wayne''']] <sup>[[User talk:RobyWayne|Talk]]&nbsp;&bull;&nbsp;[[Special:Contributions/RobyWayne|Hist]]&nbsp;&bull;&nbsp;[[Wikipedia:Esperanza|<span style="color:green">E@</span>]]</sup> 16:09, 20 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Delete''', not a stealth template as it contains a category. [[User:JYolkowski|JYolkowski]] // [[User talk:JYolkowski|talk]] 23:25, 20 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' Inaccurate, POV. [[User:Jkelly|Jkelly]] 03:42, 21 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Delete''', no way this can ever be [[WP:NPOV]]. Also, Wikipedia is [[WP:NOT|NOT]] censored for the protection of minors. [[User:Titoxd|Tito]]<font color="#008000">[[Wikipedia:Esperanza|xd]]</font><sup>([[User_talk:Titoxd|?!?]])</sup> 22:07, 21 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Delete'''; same as below {{tl|Offensive}} nominations. [[User:Superm401|Superm401]] | [[User_talk:Superm401|Talk]] 00:43, 22 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Delete''': for any number of the reasons above.{{User:Gaff/Sig}} 07:05, 22 October 2005 (UTC)
 
For an index of all old and archived discussions, see [[Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/Archives]].
==== [[Template:User du-0 ]]====
* '''Delete''': Inherently uncivil. &mdash;&nbsp;[[User:Davenbelle|Davenbelle]] 03:20, 20 October 2005 (UTC)
: See: [[m:Incivility]]; [[Wikipedia:Civility]], [[Wikipedia:Wikiquette]], [[Wikipedia:Assume good faith]] and [[m:Don't be a dick]].
 
[[Category:Non-talk pages with subpages that are automatically signed]]
:'''Comment:''' This TFD listing is arguably a violation of an ArbCom ruling against Davenbelle stalking Cool Cat - see [[Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Coolcat, Davenbelle and Stereotek]]. As such, I've removed the TFD notice from the template itself - [[User:David Gerard|David Gerard]] 18:39, 23 October 2005 (UTC)
[[Category:Wikipedia deletion|Templates for discussion]]
 
[[Category:Wikipedia template administration|Templates for discussion]]
* So nu, if you find du-0 offensive, what is YOUR ability level in du? If you want to delete du-0 template, it surely must be greater. --[[User:Node ue|Node]] 23:54, 22 October 2005 (UTC)
[[Category:Wikipedia discussion]]
**We do not need comments such as this [[User:Node ue]], questioning another user's being a dumbass. That is too close to [[WP:NPA]]. That is also not at all what the spirit of this template represents.<em>&mdash;<font color="Indigo">[[User:Gaff|Gaff]]</font> <sup><small><b><font color="MediumSlateBlue">[[User_talk:Gaff|ταλκ]]</font></sup></small></b></em> 00:20, 23 October 2005 (UTC)
* '''del''' agree it's uncivil -- ([[User:Drini|drini's page]]|[[User talk:Drini|<big>&#x260E;</big>]]) 04:20, 20 October 2005 (UTC)
* '''Delete''' - it's useless and possibly offensive. And don't forget to delete [[:Category: User du-0]] along with it - I placed it on [[WP:CFD]] and it was referred here. --[[User:Gurch|Gurch]] 12:31, 20 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''keep''', used. And it is not uncivil, not even inherently --[[User:MarSch|MarSch]] 13:57, 20 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Keep.''' How is it uncivil or offensive? ~~ '''[[User:Nickptar|N]]''' ([[User talk:Nickptar|t]]/[[Special:Contributions/Nickptar|c]]) 14:14, 20 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Keep'''. If you're insulted by this, then...well, really I don't know what to say. Don't be. I think it's a kinda fun template, and I've certainly seen it in use. [[User:Lord Bob|Lord Bob]] 15:24, 20 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' as per nom. [[User:DESiegel|DES]] [[User talk:DESiegel|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] 15:51, 20 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Keep''', it is a joke template, not meant to be uncivil. This one is similar to the {{tl|User 1337-0}} series of templates which have already been discussed and kept, if I recall correctly. [[User:Titoxd|Tito]]<font color="#008000">[[Wikipedia:Esperanza|xd]]</font><sup>([[User_talk:Titoxd|?!?]])</sup> 18:30, 20 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Keep''' Its just a joke. [[User:Private Butcher|<font color="black">Privat</font>]][[Wikipedia:Esperanza|<font color="green">'''''e'''''</font>]] [[user talk:Private Butcher|<font color="brown">Butcher</font>]] 19:16, 20 October 2005 (UTC)
: re joke comments: "jokes" such as this serve the project how? &mdash;&nbsp;[[User:Davenbelle|Davenbelle]] 08:40, 21 October 2005 (UTC)
::Lets see. It points out commets from dumbasses are not welcome. While it is a "joke" it goes along with [[m:Don't be a dick]] and [[m:Bash]]. It is a joke template given "dumbass" is not a real language. It benefits the project by discourageing dumbass comments which are by nature dumb. --[[User:Cool Cat|Cool Cat]] [[User talk:Cool Cat|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 23:21, 21 October 2005 (UTC)
:::My experience with Internet [http://www.penny-arcade.com/view.php?date=2004-03-19 dumbasses] is that warnings like this do more to goad them into action than to discourage them. <tt>;)</tt> &mdash;<span class="horsepunchkid">[[User:HorsePunchKid|<span style="font-family: monospace; font-variant: small-caps;">HorsePunchKid</span>]]&rarr;[[User talk:HorsePunchKid|<span style="color: #070;">&#x9F9C;</span>]]</span> 01:41, 23 October 2005 (UTC)
::You going to nominate [[Wikipedia:Department of Fun]] next? ~~ '''[[User:Nickptar|N]]''' ([[User talk:Nickptar|t]]/[[Special:Contributions/Nickptar|c]]) 23:33, 21 October 2005 (UTC)
::*It does not say that comments from dumbasses are not welcome. It says, "This person does not understand dumbass (or understands it with considerable difficulties, or does not want to speak dumbass)". This would imply that dumbass comments be directed elsewhere. This is an important distinction.{{User:Gaff/Sig}} 03:44, 22 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Delete'''. Serves no useful function. --[[User:Nlu|Nlu]] 19:35, 20 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Keep''', why one would find this uncivil (at least in a Wikipedia context) I don't know. [[User:Christopherparham|Christopher Parham]] [[User_talk:Christopherparham|(talk)]] 21:23, 20 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' Does not promote [[WP:WQT]]. [[User:Jkelly|Jkelly]] 03:43, 21 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' Associated with an already deleted immature category. -[[User:Husnock|Husnock]] 05:06, 21 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' Decidely mean-spirited. [[User:Philip Taron|Philip]] 05:38, 21 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''D'''elete. Witty but unnecessary. [[User:Jfdwolff|JFW]]&nbsp;|&nbsp;[[User_talk:Jfdwolff|<small>T@lk</small>]] 08:41, 21 October 2005 (UTC)
*It may be a joke template, but it's not one that's needed. '''Delete'''... -- [[User:NSLE|NSLE]] <sub>([[User_talk:NSLE|Communicate!]])</sub> <sup><[[Special:Contributions/NSLE|Contribs]]></sup> 10:28, 21 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Delete''': Template links to a category of the same name, consensus on CFD was to delete category but it was referred here. Template is similarly unnecessary and IMO [[Wikipedia:Patent nonsense|patent nonsense]]. [[User:Valiantis|Valiantis]] 12:34, 21 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Keep''': What's wrong with letting people vent their frustration on their ''own'' user pages? Rather that than they do it elsewhere (and scare away the newbies). --[[User:Taejo|Taejo]] | [[User talk:Taejo|Talk]] 13:12, 21 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Keep''':The template is ment to be used in peoples user pages. The tfding of this page screwed up my userpage and I am not happy about this. Additionaly I refuse to believe Davenbelle's deletion request of something in my userspace is a coincidence. --[[User:Cool Cat|Cool Cat]] [[User talk:Cool Cat|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 20:28, 21 October 2005 (UTC)
:[[Wikipedia:Assume good faith]]. &mdash;&nbsp;[[User:Davenbelle|Davenbelle]] 02:17, 22 October 2005 (UTC)
::According to arbcom you have been hounding me. The case closed and that was one of the results and now you are trying to get a template on my userpage deleted and you come and post random policies. Tell, me how is your continuing hounding benefiting the project? Leave me alone damn it. --[[User:Cool Cat|Cool Cat]] [[User talk:Cool Cat|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 02:45, 22 October 2005 (UTC)
:::It seems to be on the pages of at least 9 different users. It is not unique to Cool Cat's user page. [[User:DESiegel|DES]] [[User talk:DESiegel|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] 03:02, 22 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Userfy'''. People have the right to use it as a joke on their user pages, but it doesn't deserve the endorsement of template namespace placement. [[User:Superm401|Superm401]] | [[User_talk:Superm401|Talk]] 00:22, 22 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Strong Keep'''. Its a joke. Its not uncivil. Writing "you are a dumbass" is uncivil. Posting a template that says "this user is a dumbass" on anothers userpage is uncivil. Also, '''this template is useful''' in the following way: Some people find a sense of humor to be indicative that a person may be approachable, easy to talk to. This makes it more likely that the user might be asked a question by a newbie, who has this posted next to the smiley face template that says that the user is happy to help out a newbie. (Where I first saw this template in use) Personally, I find the user pages that have like 4 different languages and all other "official" looking templates to be a little cold, sterile and off-putting. As a user with less than a month of experience, I would be more likely to ask a question of somebody with this template on their user page. ''Just because you do not understand another users method of communication (in this instance, humor) does not mean that their language is invalid''.{{User:Gaff/Sig}} 01:22, 22 October 2005 (UTC)
:*I think that my view above are much in keeping with [[Wikipedia:Wikiquette]].{{User:Gaff/Sig}} 07:08, 22 October 2005 (UTC)
::*I would be much ''less'' likely to ask a question of a user with this template - if they don't understand 'dumbass', then they are implying that they won't really understand any question asked by someone with less knowledge, and at the very least are indicating a willingness to attack question(ers) as stupid. I think it's counterproductive. -- <font color="#668353">[[User:Stillnotelf|stillnotelf]]</font> <font color="#ff4487">[[User talk:Stillnotelf|has a talk page]]</font> 04:32, 24 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Keep'''. — [[User:Ceejayoz|ceejayoz]] <sup><font color="darkred">[[User_talk:Ceejayoz|&#9733;]]</font> <font color="darkred">[http://ceejayoz.com/ .com]</font></sup> 01:25, 22 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Keep'''.--[[User:Fito|Fito]] 03:16, 22 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Delete (Userfy)'''. I second [[User:Superm401|Superm401]] -- users can [[m:Help:Template#subst|subst]] it on their pages. There's no point having it in the template namespace. // [[User:Pathoschild|Pathoschild]] 09:54, 22 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' This is an encyclopedia, and not a place for such childish "jokes". -- [[User:Karl Meier|Karl Meier]] 10:18, 22 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Delete''', unfunny joke. [[User:Radiant!|R]][[User_talk:Radiant!|adiant]][[meta:mergist|_<font color="orange">&gt;|&lt;</font>]] 13:10, 22 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Delete'''. Uncivil. [[User:*drew|*drew]] 13:27, 22 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Keep''' —{{User:Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason/Sig}} 13:54, 22 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Keep'''. People seem to have forgotten the meaning of fun, which used to be a part of the English Wikipedia but apparently no longer is. I find that in the intervening times when I am less active here, things often change for the worse -- people getting meaner, rules getting stricter to the detriment of the project, people getting too serious, bureaucracy expanding unnessecarily... We've gotten to the point where we even resort to a sort of Newspeak now -- Articles for Deletion is Doubleplusgood, while Votes for Deletion was Doubleplusungood, and they are definitely different things because their names are different. right. Anyhow. Keep. And it seems that today most Wikipedians should have a [[Template:User du]] on their upg. --~~<small>(unsigned comment by [[User:Node ue]])</small>
*'''Keep''' -[[User:GregAsche|Greg Asche]] [[User_talk:GregAsche|(talk)]] 00:28, 23 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Delete'''. Condones an uncivil tone, which should be reason enough for it to go or be [[WP:BJAODN]]-inated. &mdash;<span class="horsepunchkid">[[User:HorsePunchKid|<span style="font-family: monospace; font-variant: small-caps;">HorsePunchKid</span>]]&rarr;[[User talk:HorsePunchKid|<span style="color: #070;">&#x9F9C;</span>]]</span> 01:41, 23 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''keep''' mostly harmless --[[User:Doc glasgow|Doc]] [[User talk:Doc glasgow|(?)]] 01:50, 23 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Keep'''. I like it so much I just put it on my own user page, but even if I didn't - surely incivility is incivility ''towards'' someone specific. I, at least, can't make sense of the notion of something being uncivil ''simpliciter''. Who exactly is this supposed to be uncivil ''to''? Anyone who would see this on someone's user page and take it personally is someone I think the project is likely better off without anyway. [[User:PurplePlatypus|PurplePlatypus]] 23:35, 23 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Delete'''. I appreciate the joke, but I think it's just too harsh. I was surprised to see it, and even more surprised that it was actually a template and not just local to one page—it doesn't fit the community tone of Wikipedia. Userfy would be okay. -- <font color="#668353">[[User:Stillnotelf|stillnotelf]]</font> <font color="#ff4487">[[User talk:Stillnotelf|has a talk page]]</font> 04:32, 24 October 2005 (UTC)
 
=== October 19 ===
====[[Template:Mallorca infobox]]====
This was created by an anonymous, unregistered user, and is only currently used on [[Mallorca]]. Since I cannot see any other page where this template might be used, I think we should "subst" the template code directly into that article, then delete it. [[User:Zzyzx11|Zzyzx11]] [[User talk:Zzyzx11|(Talk)]] 22:10, 19 October 2005 (UTC)
* '''Keep''' per [[#Country Specific Infoxboxes that only redirect to Template:Infobox Country]] below; maybe refactor to use [[Template:Infobox Country]]. &mdash;&nbsp;[[User:Davenbelle|Davenbelle]] 03:04, 20 October 2005 (UTC)
*:This template is different because it never calls or redirects to &#123;{[[Template:Infobox_Country|Infobox_Country]]}}. All wiki code for the formatting and the tables are hard-coded onto it. [[User:Zzyzx11|Zzyzx11]] [[User talk:Zzyzx11|(Talk)]] 05:48, 21 October 2005 (UTC)
* '''Subst and delete'''. Single-use template; refactoring turns it into a single-use metatemplate. --[[User:Golbez|Golbez]] 04:33, 20 October 2005 (UTC)
* '''Subst and delete''', as per Golbez. [[User:Superm401|Superm401]] | [[User_talk:Superm401|Talk]] 00:41, 22 October 2005 (UTC)
*<span style="text-decoration: line-through;">'''Move''': Why not just move it to [[Mallorca/infobox]]? // [[User:Pathoschild|Pathoschild]] 09:56, 22 October 2005 (UTC)</span>
*:Because subpages are even worse than single-use and metatemplates. --[[User:Golbez|Golbez]] 16:16, 22 October 2005 (UTC)
*::Thanks for pointing out the reason on my talk page. I've retracted my vote on this one. // [[User:Pathoschild|Pathoschild]] 21:00, 22 October 2005 (UTC)
 
====[[Template:Chocolate and slavery]]====
This type of political campaign is out of place in Wikipedia articles. The template is inherently POV. [[User:Tupsharru|Tupsharru]] 19:43, 19 October 2005 (UTC)
* '''Keep'''. As the person who created the template, I object to its characterization as inherently POV -- but even more so that this was a "political campaign". It was created because the various chocolate company pages were getting lots and lots of POV edits regarding slavery. This was an attempt to reduce the POV-ness by reducing the amount of information on it while still permitting those interested in the issue to get to [[Chocolate and slavery]]. If template is deleted, expect major edit wars to reerupt (not involving me). Please check the history of the pages that currently link to this template before you accuse me of politicizing the issue or of deliberately introducing POV into the articles. --[[User:Nlu|Nlu]] 19:53, 19 October 2005 (UTC)
**N1u, if editors have something to say about the involvement of any specific chocolatier in contributing to the mistreatment of plantation workers, they'll have to do so in each individual article and support the claims with more than just circumstancial evidence. I've already pointed this out in [[Talk:Chocolate_and_slavery#More NPoV?]]. / [[User:Peter Isotalo|Peter]] <sup>[[User talk:Peter Isotalo|Isotalo]]</sup> 23:55, 19 October 2005 (UTC)
* '''Delete.''' Insisting on mentioning this in a unified form in every article on a chocolate-related subject is POV. Mentioning particular chocolatiers' human rights records (if they are are documented) would not be POV. ~~ '''[[User:Nickptar|N]]''' ([[User talk:Nickptar|t]]/[[Special:Contributions/Nickptar|c]]) 20:03, 19 October 2005 (UTC)
* '''Delete'''. [[User:Violetriga|violet/riga]] [[User_talk:violetriga|(t)]] 23:27, 19 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Delete.''' [[WP:NOT#Wikipedia is not a propaganda machine|Wikipedia is not a propaganda machine]]. Prove the allegations on an individual basis or keep them in general articles like [[chocolate]] or [[chocolate and slavery]]. / [[User:Peter Isotalo|Peter]] <sup>[[User talk:Peter Isotalo|Isotalo]]</sup> 23:55, 19 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' - feel free to add notes to the relevant talk pages that refer to other discussion, but standardization like this just looks like an attempt to cut off legitimate debate. [[User:Cdc|<small>CDC</small>]] [[User talk:Cdc|<small>(talk)</small>]] 00:09, 20 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' --[[User:Rogerd|Rogerd]] 05:31, 20 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' There is no need for this information to be standardized. If it is relevant and NPOV, include it in the prose of the pages you would have tagged with this template. [[User:Philip Taron|Philip]] 05:41, 21 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' per nominator and Peter Isotalo. -- [[User:NSLE|NSLE]] <sub>([[User_talk:NSLE|Communicate!]])</sub> <sup><[[Special:Contributions/NSLE|Contribs]]></sup> 10:30, 21 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Delete'''. As per Philip, this message is better addressed using specific evidence relevant to each page. [[User:Superm401|Superm401]] | [[User_talk:Superm401|Talk]] 00:40, 22 October 2005 (UTC)
 
==== [[Template: User_zb ]]====
'''delete''': A hoax; the article "Zlatiborian language" is already deleted as a hoax. --[[User:Millosh|millosh]] ([[:sr:Разговор са корисником:Милош|talk (sr:)]]) 19:00, 19 October 2005 (UTC)
 
*'''fierce keep'''. Despite the fact that Zlatiborian isn't a real "language", ''I feel that we need to allow users to claim '''whichever''' native languages they want'', no matter how ridiculous. What language people want to claim, we should give to them. --[[User:Node ue|Node]] 00:11, 20 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Although most linguists do not consider Zlatiborian to be a language, in the most recent Serbian census about 250 people claimed that their native language was Zlatiborian.''' I think that is a major blow against the argument that it's a _complete hoax_ (while it may not be a "language" per se, it can still have native speakers -- perhaps it should just say "zlatiborski" and not "zlatiborski jezik").
**Mark, this is a hoax, unlike Montenegrin. I never heard except on this Wikipedia that some people say that they are talking Zlatiborian. If it is OK to keep it, I would make a box for Belgradian and Zarkovian because I can say that those languages are my native languages. --[[User:Millosh|millosh]] ([[:sr:Разговор са корисником:Милош|talk (sr:)]]) 08:07, 20 October 2005 (UTC)
***I realise that. I have followed the previous debate on Zlatiborian. As I said, we should allow users to claim whichever native language they want. If you want to claim you speak Beogradian and Zarkovian, I have no problem with you creating thosie templates. But, if you're NOT actually going to use them on your userpage, you should not create them (dont disrupt wp to make a point). --[[User:Node ue|Node]] 00:13, 21 October 2005 (UTC)
***I made [[Template:User bel]] as well as I am starting to make templates for all regions from Serbia. --[[User:Millosh|millosh]] ([[:sr:Разговор са корисником:Милош|talk (sr:)]]) 08:13, 20 October 2005 (UTC)
****It's fine with me for you to create templates WHICH YOU ARE GOING TO USE on your own userpage. I doubt you will use any of those templates, and if you do, I think you will only use the Belgrade and Zarkovian ones, so if you create the others you will be disrupting wp to make a point. --[[User:Node ue|Node]] 00:13, 21 October 2005 (UTC)
****And after regions of Serbia, I would continue with New York streets. --[[User:Millosh|millosh]] ([[:sr:Разговор са корисником:Милош|talk (sr:)]]) 08:31, 20 October 2005 (UTC)
*****Are you going to use any of those templates? IF you are, I don't mind that you create them. But if not, DO not create them because it is disrupting WP to make a point which is a no-no. --[[User:Node ue|Node]] 00:13, 21 October 2005 (UTC)
******Of course, I would use it because I know languages of every New York street at level 2, as well as level 4 of every Shtokavian based language. --[[User:Millosh|millosh]] ([[:sr:Разговор са корисником:Милош|talk (sr:)]]) 08:56, 21 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Keep''' per Node, else '''userfy''' to the one guy who uses it. ~~ '''[[User:Nickptar|N]]''' ([[User talk:Nickptar|t]]/[[Special:Contributions/Nickptar|c]]) 00:13, 20 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Delete.''' Local dialects are not separate languages, at least not when they're not politically acknowledged. Keeping separate Babel-templates for them serves no purpose. / [[User:Peter Isotalo|Peter]] <sup>[[User talk:Peter Isotalo|Isotalo]]</sup> 08:51, 20 October 2005 (UTC)
**I don't see how the debate over this, or for that matter any babel template, should centre around whether or not it's a real language. I think the issue here should be: does a user have a right to claim whichever native language they want, even if it's a ridiculous one, or are we going to force them to conform to our ideas of what is a language and what isn't? --[[User:Node ue|Node]] 00:13, 21 October 2005 (UTC)
***This is a user template, not article content. Having Babel templates for every imaginable dialect of every region, city, town, village and hamlet is pointless and clutters up the namespace. [[WP:NOT#Wikipedia is not an anarchy|Wikipedia is not an anarchy]] and I'm not about to encourage this kind of dubious language separatism just to please a handful of users. / [[User:Peter Isotalo|Peter]] <sup>[[User talk:Peter Isotalo|Isotalo]]</sup> 09:12, 21 October 2005 (UTC)
****I'm not advocating for templates for "every imaginable dialect". I think that they should be allowed, ''where demand exists''. If nobody wants to add a Babel template for Newyorkian to their page, then there is no reason for the template to exist. But if more than one person wants to, why not let them? There is obviously the argument that eventually it may become a _real_ problem, with huge demands for astronomical numbers of babel templates. However, I don't see that happening, as MOST people don't claim to speak a "language" like Zlatiborian or Nuyorkian. If it ever _were_ to become a /real/ problem, we could cross that bridge when we came to it. --[[User:Node ue|Node]] 00:21, 23 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''DELETE''' as fiercely as possible. This represents a disgrace, regression, spitefulness, monstrosity, abomination and a serious detriment. There is no reason whatsoever for "languages" like these to have their templates. I might as well create Pančevian language because I live in Pančevo, or better yet, Teslian, because the part of my town I'm living in is named after Nikola Tesla. This is absurd and I highly disagree with Node's comment, because if people want languages based on their absolute geographic ___location, there will be more Babel templates than eligible articles. --[[User:Dungodung|<font color=blue>'''Dungo'''</font>]] [[User_talk:Dungodung|(<font color=blue>'''''talk'''''</font>)]] 09:08, 20 October 2005 (UTC)
**But the thing is, people ''don't'' want to create these. How many people here will claim they speak Belgradian, or Zagrebian, or Krkish? My guess is 0. If somebody wants to claim they speak these "languages", I support them. But so far nobody does. So the thing you say about so many templates is purely fud. --[[User:Node ue|Node]] 00:13, 21 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Delete''', nonexistent language. --[[User:Angr|Angr]]/[[User_talk:Angr|<sub>{{IPA|tɔk tə mi}}</sub>]] 09:30, 20 October 2005 (UTC)
**I don't see how the debate over this, or for that matter any babel template, should centre around whether or not it's a real language. I think the issue here should be: does a user have a right to claim whichever native language they want, even if it's a ridiculous one, or are we going to force them to conform to our ideas of what is a language and what isn't? --[[User:Node ue|Node]] 00:13, 21 October 2005 (UTC)
***Just because you keep saying it doesn't make it so! (from The Simpsons) Seriously, I think that Babel templates should be as clean as possible and that they should contain only true languages, whereas there could be some other templates created for fun purposes, like '''user fox''' or '''user 1337'''. So, the two should be separated into Babel and something different. Also, if a template like that is going to be used in only one user page, the user can simply, make templates in his own namespace (transclude subpages), or copy/paste the template source and adjust it or simply do what Angela said. --[[User:Dungodung|<font color=blue>'''Dungo'''</font>]] [[User_talk:Dungodung|(<font color=blue>'''''talk'''''</font>)]] 14:07, 22 October 2005 (UTC)
****"True languages" is very POV. ''There is no concrete division between dialect and language'', and nowadays many linguists opt for alternative terms so as to avoid the connotations of either term. Thus, they might say "The speech of Zlatibor", "The speech of Bosnia", "The speech of Russia", "The speech of Japan", rather than "Zlatiborian language/dialect", "Bosnian language/dialect", etc. There are basically no differences between the official forms of Moldovan and Romanian, yet for ''sociolinguistic'' and ''politicolinguistic'' reasons, they are allowed to be considered separate in some situations (30% of Moldovans claim Moldovan as their mother tongue). Now, obviously 250 people is a tiny minority of the population of Zlatibor, but we now have two users who claim that Zlatiborian is their mother tongue. See [[language]], it explains very well that NO MATTER how sure you may be, there is no real line between a language and a dialect. Some people have said things like "well to be a separate language, it must have different grammar", but this is pure b.s because many widely recognised "languages" today are different really only on the bases of pronunciation and vocabulary, with few or no [[morphology|morpho]][[syntax|syntactical]] (morfosintakticki??) differences. Thus, to claim that Zlatiborian, Bosnian, Spanish, or Quechua is a dialect of or a separate language from Serbian, Serbocroatian, Italian, and English respectively is considered by most experts to have been superceeded by the idea that they can be both, depending on what makes a language different from a dialect (most dictionaries describe a dialect as a "regional variant of a language" -- this is unhelpful. one could easily say that Spanish is a regional variant of Portuguese or vc-vrs). To say that we should only have Babel templates for "true languages" is an uninformed and indefensible statement based solely on the fallacious supposition that there really is a distinct division or a set of widely agreed-upon defining differences between what is a "dialect" and what is a "language". --[[User:Node ue|Node]] 00:21, 23 October 2005 (UTC)
*****Okay. I'm not a linguist, but no one can persuade me that Zlatiborian is a language in the strict sense of the word (which is very important seeing as Babel has to support some conventions). Just because 200 or so people speak in a way ever so similar to the Serbian language, it doesn't automatically make that speech a language. As far as I know, language needs to comply to certain conventions and you can't just arrange a meeting, have a vote and decide that a language is created. If that were the case, I'd stand corrected, but alas it isn't. Why you're on this pursuit is beyond me; nevertheless, I don't see how this speech can be proclaimed a language based on the fact that 200 Zlatiborians speak a variant of the Serbian language. Bottom line, this is all beside the point. I'm no linguist and I don't want to argue over stuff like this. I just what to make a point that not every so called "language" (the loose term) should be included in the Babel, because I see Babel as a place for every language. If you want to goof with things like that, don't make a template and/or use Uncyclopedia or whatever. --[[User:Dungodung|<font color=blue>'''Dungo'''</font>]] [[User_talk:Dungodung|(<font color=blue>'''''talk'''''</font>)]] 19:32, 23 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Delete''', nonexistent language. --[[User:Elephantus|Elephantus]] 10:39, 20 October 2005 (UTC)
**I don't see how the debate over this, or for that matter any babel template, should centre around whether or not it's a real language. I think the issue here should be: does a user have a right to claim whichever native language they want, even if it's a ridiculous one, or are we going to force them to conform to our ideas of what is a language and what isn't? --[[User:Node ue|Node]] 00:13, 21 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Delete''', nonexistent language, fully agree with Dungo. -- [[User:Arwel Parry|Arwel]] 13:59, 20 October 2005 (UTC)
**I don't see how the debate over this, or for that matter any babel template, should centre around whether or not it's a real language. I think the issue here should be: does a user have a right to claim whichever native language they want, even if it's a ridiculous one, or are we going to force them to conform to our ideas of what is a language and what isn't? --[[User:Node ue|Node]] 00:13, 21 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Keep''', I must agree with Alexandra. Language used in Pancevo, Belgrade, and other cities of Serbia is Serbian, but Zlatiborian is different: while a Belgradian or Pancevan would say ''Lepo vreme, lepi ljudi, lepe face Beograda'' and ''Ovde je sahranjen moj deka kojega sam mnogo voleo'', а Zlatiboian would say ''Lijepo vrijeme, lijepi ljudi, lijepa lica Biograda'' and ''Vodje je saranjen moj djedo kog sam mnogo volio'', etc. It is similar, but many languages are.--[[User:Ђорђе Д. Божовић|Ђорђе Д. Божовић]] 14:20, 20 October 2005 (UTC)
**That's iyekavian Serbian standard with one or two ___location-based words that differ from the "Belgradian or Pancevan". What we're talking about here is merely a dialect of Serbian language and BTW, I thought you were over this, Djorđe. --[[User:Dungodung|<font color=blue>'''Dungo'''</font>]] [[User_talk:Dungodung|(<font color=blue>'''''talk'''''</font>)]] 19:38, 20 October 2005 (UTC)
***Oh, come on. Remind me why Serbian is a real language separate from Bosnian and Croatian?? That is nearly as much or as hardly ludicrous as the claim that there is a real Zlatiborian language. Serbian language is a nationalist fiction, and its consideration is more one of sociolinguistics than the sort of careful areal linguistic analysis with which we would expect "lang" vs "d.t" to be judged on given the purported existence of "true languages" (this is acc'd to you). --[[User:Node ue|Node]] 00:21, 23 October 2005 (UTC)
**** It's really unfair (and you know it) to include Bosnian and Croatian. Those languages (+Serbian) diverge more every second and they were separated strictly because of political reasons. There is no such thing when we're talking about Zlatibor. It's a part of Serbia and the chances are it'll stay there for a long time. --[[User:Dungodung|<font color=blue>'''Dungo'''</font>]] [[User_talk:Dungodung|(<font color=blue>'''''talk'''''</font>)]] 19:32, 23 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Delete'''. There's no need for a template used by only one user. Subst it onto the user page and delete it. See [[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Zlatiborian speech]] for the deletion of the page on this language. [[User:Angela|Angela]][[user talk:Angela|.]] 19:02, 20 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''<s>Speedy</s> delete''', it's a hoax, but '''userfy''' also works too. [[User:Titoxd|Tito]]<font color="#008000">[[Wikipedia:Esperanza|xd]]</font><sup>([[User_talk:Titoxd|?!?]])</sup> 19:06, 20 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Userfy'''. Given that the language doesn't exist I can't imagine more than one person really wanting to use this, but there's no reason why that one person can't. [[User:Christopherparham|Christopher Parham]] [[User_talk:Christopherparham|(talk)]] 03:47, 21 October 2005 (UTC)
** You are right. Userfy is enough good for this case. --[[User:Millosh|millosh]] ([[:sr:Разговор са корисником:Милош|talk (sr:)]]) 19:07, 21 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Keep''' or '''Userfy''' - if someone wants to put this on his userpage, there is no problem with it. It will only be used in the User:-namespace. Who cares? What's the problem? [[User:Gerritholl|Gerrit]] <sup>[[Special:Contributions/Gerritholl|C]][[User:Gerritholl|U]][[User_talk:Gerritholl|T]][[Special:Emailuser/Gerritholl|E]][[Special:Whatlinkshere/User:Gerritholl|D]][http://topjaklont.student.utwente.nl/ H]</sup> 08:32, 21 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Userfy'''. There's absolutely no reason that "we need to allow users to claim '''whichever''' native languages they want'', no matter how ridiculous''". If it doesn't exist, it shouldn't be in template space. It can still be a user template, or someone can just add it to their page manually. However, since it's not a real language, it shouldn't have a real template. It's that simple. [[User:Superm401|Superm401]] | [[User_talk:Superm401|Talk]] 00:35, 22 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Delete''', per nomination. '''Userfy''' if needed, per resons stated above.
*'''delete''': a hoax. I'm typically pro giving anyone a right to do or say stupid things (to the extent of not harming other person's freedoms), but this is an encyclopedia (an encyclopedia people should be able to trust), and this kind of information could easily mislead someone into mistake. So if there are a lot of ''Non-language Babel entries'' (<nowiki>{{user fox}}</nowiki> for example), visitors can easily identify them as jokes, but if someone isn't really familiar with European linguistics, he will believe that there really is such thing as Zlatiborian language (and may embarrass himself somewhere and '''never trust Wikipedia again''') -- [[User:Obradovic Goran|Obradovi&#263; Goran ]] [[User talk:Obradovic Goran|(<font color="red">t</font><font color="blue">a<sup>l</sup></font><font color="gray">k</font>]] 12:49, 22 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Delete''', nonexistent language, fully agree with Dungo and Obradovic Goran --[[User:Jovanvb|Jovanvb]] 13:04, 22 October 2005 (UTC)
*If you follow 'What links here' on the template page, you'll see that two users, not one, speak the language.
**Wow! Me and a friend of mine speak English when we hang out, but once in a while we coin a new funny word. I guess we speak Fenglish and I can make a template. Not good enough, I'm afraid. --[[User:Dungodung|<font color=blue>'''Dungo'''</font>]] [[User_talk:Dungodung|(<font color=blue>'''''talk'''''</font>)]] 19:32, 23 October 2005 (UTC)
 
==== [[Template:Offensive/NewVersion]] ====
Same reasons as {{tl|Offensive}} below. Inherently PoV, and contradicts [[WP:NOT]] policy. [[User:DESiegel|DES]] [[User talk:DESiegel|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] 17:19, 19 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' as per [[Wikipedia:No disclaimer templates]]. --[[User:CesarB|cesarb]] 17:32, 19 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Delete''', again.[[User:Gateman1997|Gateman1997]] 17:49, 19 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' per Cesarb. --[[User:Idont havaname|Idont Havaname]] 18:33, 19 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Delete''', but see my comments at the listing for the original one. [[User:JYolkowski|JYolkowski]] // [[User talk:JYolkowski|talk]] 23:47, 19 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' &mdash; [[WP:POINT]]. &mdash;&nbsp;[[User:Davenbelle|Davenbelle]] 03:09, 20 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''KEEEEEEEEP!!!'''. Just kidding, '''Delete'''. <small>[[User:RN|Ryan Norton]] <sup><font color="#6BA800">[[User talk:RN|T]]</font> | <font color="#0033FF">[[Special:Emailuser/RN|@]]</font> | <font color="#FF0000">[[Special:Contributions/RN|C]]</font></sup></small> 03:11, 20 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Delete''', as with [[Template:Offensive]]. [[User:Rhobite|Rhobite]] 03:12, 20 October 2005 (UTC)
*Look: [[Template:Offensive/StealthVersion]] -- [[User:Zondor|Zondor]] 04:02, 20 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Delete'''. ~⌈[[User:Markaci|Mar]][[User_talk:Markaci|'''ka''']][[Special:Contributions/Markaci|''ci'']]⌋ <small>2005-10-20 T 09:17:50 Z</small>
*'''Delete''', inherently anti-Wiki. --[[User:Angr|Angr]]/[[User_talk:Angr|<sub>{{IPA|tɔk tə mi}}</sub>]] 09:21, 20 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' <nowiki>{{My usual comments why we should not have these templates}}</nowiki>--[[User:Clawed|Clawed]] 10:37, 20 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' per usual. [[User:Kaldari|Kaldari]] 14:34, 20 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Speedy delete'''--[[User:Cyberjunkie|Cyberjunkie]] | [[User_talk:Cyberjunkie|Talk]] 03:26, 20 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Delete'''; looks like I'm late to this party, but delete. Almost anything is offensive to someone, and use of the template is impossibly subjective. [[User:Antandrus|Antandrus ]] [[User_talk:Antandrus|(talk)]] 01:42, 21 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Delete'''. Could not hope to be NPOV. [[User:Jkelly|Jkelly]] 03:44, 21 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' per nomination. -- [[User:NSLE|NSLE]] <sub>([[User_talk:NSLE|Communicate!]])</sub> <sup><[[Special:Contributions/NSLE|Contribs]]></sup> 10:31, 21 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Delete''', no way this can ever be [[WP:NPOV]]. Also, Wikipedia is [[WP:NOT|NOT]] censored for the protection of minors. [[User:Titoxd|Tito]]<font color="#008000">[[Wikipedia:Esperanza|xd]]</font><sup>([[User_talk:Titoxd|?!?]])</sup> 22:08, 21 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Delete'''. Thanks for nominating, DES. As per nominator, unacceptable for same reasons {{tl|Offensive}} is. [[User:Superm401|Superm401]] | [[User_talk:Superm401|Talk]] 00:27, 22 October 2005 (UTC)
 
==== [[Template: Infobox Irish hills ]]====
'''Delete''': No pages use this template, it has been replaced by the generic infobox at WikiProject Mountains [[User:Grinner|Grinner]] 09:55, 19 October 2005 (UTC)
 
==== [[Template: Infobox Irish hills (no image) ]]====
'''Delete''': No pages use this template, it has been replaced by the generic infobox at WikiProject Mountains [[User:Grinner|Grinner]] 09:55, 19 October 2005 (UTC)
 
==== [[Template:Offensive]]====
*'''Delete''': Clearly violates the spirit of [[Wikipedia is not censored for the protection of minors]]. Proponents claim it is only to protect mirrors; however, the template is visible on Wikipedia, which is unacceptable. They even tried to add it to [[WP:WWIN]] to self-justify. I removed it because it had no consensus. Indeed, it wasn't mentioned on talk at all. [[User:Superm401|Superm401]] | [[User_talk:Superm401|Talk]] 05:51, 19 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Keep'''. Okay, I think this can do good in that it will allow more users including minors, schools, religions and any others to be more accepting of Wikipedia by way of a different, less "offensive" mirror or fork version of Wikipedia. That is, "offending" material can be programatically be removed. There are various opinions of what is or not "offensive". However, it should do no harm in that you can still post up "offensive" images or materials -- [[User:Zondor|Zondor]] 05:58, 19 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Delete'''. Again with the "content warning" templates. [[Wikipedia:Content disclaimer|This]] is the only content warning we need. [[User:Szyslak|<font color=green>{{IPA|s&#618;zl&#230;k}}</font>]] [ [[User talk:Szyslak|+t]], [[Special:Contributions/Szyslak|+c]], [[Special:Emailuser/Szyslak|+m]], <font color=green>[[Wikipedia:Esperanza|+e]]</font> ] 06:00, 19 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''strong delete'''. Inherently PoV, violates [[WP:NOT]] If we ar to start addign some sort of content warnings to articels or images, ther must be consensus on a policy for when and how we should do this, and who/how a particualr case is to be decided. (A PICS-type system could in theory work, if we agreed on such a thing). Absent such a policy, this template and any similer template is out of line. [[User:DESiegel|DES]] [[User talk:DESiegel|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] 06:04, 19 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Speedy delete''' as re-creation of deleted content. This particular bad idea has gone by a few times before. --[[User:Carnildo|Carnildo]] 06:07, 19 October 2005 (UTC)
*Okay, biased it is. Then I shall be bold in my editing that I shall start [[Template:bodypart]] to link to [[:Category:Images of body parts]]. -- [[User:Zondor|Zondor]] 06:39, 19 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Speedy delete''' as per [[User:Carnildo|Carnildo]]. ~⌈[[User:Markaci|Mar]][[User_talk:Markaci|'''ka''']][[Special:Contributions/Markaci|''ci'']]⌋ <small>2005-10-19 T 06:43:18 Z</small>
*'''Speedy delete''', prior deleted content.[[User:Gateman1997|Gateman1997]] 07:32, 19 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Speedy delete''' per above.--[[User:Cyberjunkie|Cyberjunkie]] | [[User_talk:Cyberjunkie|Talk]] 09:01, 19 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Delete''', anti-Wiki. --[[User:Angr|Angr]]/[[User_talk:Angr|<sub>{{IPA|tɔk tə mi}}</sub>]] 09:10, 19 October 2005 (UTC)
* '''Speedy Delete''' this old issue. &mdash;&nbsp;[[User:Davenbelle|Davenbelle]] 09:26, 19 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Speedy delete'''. [[User:The Land|The Land]] 11:41, 19 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Keep'''. The purpose of creating this template was ''not'' to censor material as many people think &ndash; I happen to be proud of my [[First Amendment]] rights. I created the original template because I felt that some content should simply be marked as ''potentially inappropriate'' for younger readers and/or other easily offended persons, for example to help parents keep their kids safe or to provide some sort of warning if anyone accidentally misclicked a link. Obviously the name wasn't the best choice but I wanted something fast and easy to remember.<br />My idea for how it would work would be like follows:
*#Certain pages (such as those relating to certain body parts which we generally do not discuss in public, or things related to really controversial stuff like [[Grand Theft Auto]]) could be marked with the template to serve as kind of a warning, like this: "Hey, just so you know this stuff may not be appropriate for all ages, reader discretion advised." The articles would be left otherwise intact, just like inserting any other template.
*#If someone then opened a page &ndash; intentionally or otherwise &ndash; they would see the message and be given a chance to decide whether they need to be reading it or not.
*Again, the idea was not at all censorship, just clearly marking content which some may take offense at. [[User:Martinultima|multima]] 11:53, 19 October 2005 (UTC)
**And by the way, before you get any more stupid ideas: '''THIS IS NOT A <nowiki>{{delete}}</nowiki>-TYPE THING.''' The articles would not at all be deleted, merely marked in such a way as to allow users to decide for themselves whether or not to read it. I don't think it's anti-wiki at all.
 
OK, re-designed version at [[Template:Offensive/NewVersion]].
**'''comment''' Unless we '''first''' establish a policy statign that we will designate particular articles as needing "reader discretion", and establishing a mechanism or process for chosing which items should be so marked, I oppose the creation of any such warning tempalte or tag, or placing any such warnings in any form on any article or image. The choice of which items shall be so lableled and how the label shall be worded is inherently PoV. Al of wikipedia already is a "reader discretion advised' zine, that is what our general disclaimer is for. Warking our particualr ares is invidious and clarly PoV. [[User:DESiegel|DES]] [[User talk:DESiegel|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] 17:16, 19 October 2005 (UTC)
***I agree. Even if it were acceptable to have this template (and it isn't), who gets to decide what's potentially offensive? [[George W. Bush]]'s face makes me want to puke, does that mean I can put {{tl|Offensive}} on his page without being accused of [[WP:POINT|disrupting Wikipedia to make a point]]? --[[User:Angr|Angr]]/[[User_talk:Angr|<sub>{{IPA|tɔk tə mi}}</sub>]] 09:27, 20 October 2005 (UTC)
 
*'''Delete'''. [[User:Bogdangiusca|bogdan]] | [[User talk:Bogdangiusca|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 15:18, 19 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Delete'''. Unless we seriously plan to mark all pictures of women who aren't wearing a burqa. The selection of pictures that I've seen has been seriously POV, calling all pictures with nudity offensive.--[[User:Prosfilaes|Prosfilaes]] 16:47, 19 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' as per [[Wikipedia:No disclaimer templates]]. --[[User:CesarB|cesarb]] 17:29, 19 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Delete''', for reasons already listed. [[WP:NOT]] c------d for the protection of minors. --[[User:Idont havaname|Idont Havaname]] 18:34, 19 October 2005 (UTC)
 
*Whatever, wiki-assholes. {{unsigned2|20:34, 19 October 2005|Martinultima}}
* '''Delete'''. [[User:Violetriga|violet/riga]] [[User_talk:violetriga|(t)]] 23:28, 19 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Keep''' [[iff]] the actual template text is removed, to make it a stealth template. [[User:JYolkowski|JYolkowski]] // [[User talk:JYolkowski|talk]] 23:46, 19 October 2005 (UTC)
**Note the debate on the stealth version, higher up on this page. i have voted delete on all versions. [[User:DESiegel|DES]] [[User talk:DESiegel|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] 20:42, 21 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Delete'''. No warnings. [[User:Rhobite|Rhobite]] 03:11, 20 October 2005 (UTC)
 
*Look: [[Template:Offensive/StealthVersion]] -- [[User:Zondor|Zondor]] 04:03, 20 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Delete.''' Stealth versions are bad because tagging with them is still POV. ~~ '''[[User:Nickptar|N]]''' ([[User talk:Nickptar|t]]/[[Special:Contributions/Nickptar|c]]) 14:12, 20 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Delete.''' Too subjective. [[User:Kaldari|Kaldari]] 14:32, 20 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Delete'''. Could not hope to be NPOV. [[User:Jkelly|Jkelly]] 03:45, 21 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Delete'''. --[[User:Joy|Joy <small><small>&#91;shallot&#93;</small></small>]] 11:14, 21 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Delete''', no way this can ever be [[WP:NPOV]]. Also, Wikipedia is [[WP:NOT|NOT]] censored for the protection of minors. [[User:Titoxd|Tito]]<font color="#008000">[[Wikipedia:Esperanza|xd]]</font><sup>([[User_talk:Titoxd|?!?]])</sup> 22:09, 21 October 2005 (UTC)
*Then for the sake of consistency, get rid of the fucking "''WARNING: PORNOGRAPHY''" links on pages like [[List of shock sites]] so users will [http://www.goatse.cx click here] and see something rather undesirable without any warning. Hey, you said yourselves that Wikipedia is not censored for minors. Oh, and please go fuck yourselves.<br /><br />By the way, all wiki messages on this are now going to be ignored so don't waste your time.{{unsigned|Martinultima|20:16, 23 October 2005}}
::There is a significant difference between a link to a Wikipedia page and a link to an external site. If that it is not immediately obvious why, you may want to read up on [[Wikipedia]] or [[wiki]]s in general; I'm afraid I don't know a specific section to point you to. &mdash;<span class="horsepunchkid">[[User:HorsePunchKid|<span style="font-family: monospace; font-variant: small-caps;">HorsePunchKid</span>]]&rarr;[[User talk:HorsePunchKid|<span style="color: #070;">&#x9F9C;</span>]]</span> 02:54, 24 October 2005 (UTC)
:::Yes, I am well aware of that. I have been a Wikipedian for quite a while (some stuff I've written is on my [[User:Martinultima|user page]], or just look at [[Vivian Vande Velde]], [[QEMU]], etc.) and am also administrator of a wiki for [http://ultima-inet.kicks-ass.org/~multima/ultimalinux/wiki my own project]. I do know how wikis display links differently depending on internal or external links and I have read through every last page of the style section.
 
:::The point I have been trying to make is that, while Wikipedia should not be censored, advance warning should be provided for certain pages which some may take offense at or otherwise not wish to see. Perhaps instead of a very subjective template there could be a user-controllable filter worked into the MediaWiki software itself that would allow everyone to choose for themselves what type of content can and can be displayed, but the point is there is some content that some people will need to see, and that others will not desire to have appear on their screen. By now I really don't care about ''how'' it's implemented, my point is that there should be a system.
 
:::By the way, a good deal of negative criticism about the wiki is aimed right at its lack of content control. While the ability to view and post anything is absolutely wonderful I really do think that certain content needs to be labeled properly. Would you like it then if we decided to no longer provide ratings on video games? Oh, wait, I know: Let's just link to the images on the [[Hot Coffee]] page and let ''anyone in the world'' see them. Graphic depictions of simulated sex for the masses! See how parents, schools, churches, and concerned individuals in general like ''that''. I don't approve of outright [[censorship]] at all, but gentle content warnings are sometimes necessary.
 
:::So I hope that this helps to clear a few things up for you, seeing as you're just clueless otherwise.
 
:::[[User:Martinultima|multima]] 03:14, 24 October 2005 (UTC)
 
::::Frankly i '''do''' strongly disapprove of ratings for video games, movies, and the like. I cheered when the Comics Code Authority went bust. I won't buy a TV with a "V-chip" inside, and I am far less likely to contribute to a censored wikipedia. Taht said, limited nmon-coercive warnings that are unobtrusive and palced in accordance with an agreed policy, via a [[PICS]] or simialr scheme, might be a good idea. But this template isn't even a step in the right direction. [[User:DESiegel|DES]] [[User talk:DESiegel|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] 03:53, 24 October 2005 (UTC)
 
:::Listen. The template wasn't the best idea, and I'll admit to it. And I don't like the "V-Chip" either, there's a reason all my TV equipment was made back in the 1980's before that stuff came out. Now, let me make one thing clear.
 
:::'''I'm not aiming for censorship.'''
 
:::What I am aiming for is a Wikipedia which will be much more accessible for a wider range of age groups and beliefs on different topics. I have come up with [[User:Martinultima/Content controlling the wiki|a basic plan]] which would outline how the system I've envisioned would work if it had been done the way it was supposed to, and have no problem if anyone wants to contribute or make changes.
 
:::The problem is, while I don't want censorship, I also don't want to just click a random link and find myself looking at a picture of a guy's ****, and I don't want to see every third-grader with a modem able to see the [[Hot Coffee]] screenshot so conspicuously displayed where the entire world will notice. It's a tricky thing to balance all this but someone's got to do it.
 
:::[[User:Martinultima|multima]]
 
=== October 18 ===
 
====[[Template:Donotstealorlinkimages]]====
'''Delete''' as a hoax. I should not create bogus templates or articles! [[User:RyanCahn|RyanCahn]]
:''I found this at the bottom of the TfD page, so have moved it up here and formatted it properly. -[[User:Splash|Splash]]<small><sup>[[User talk:Splash|talk]]</sup></small> 20:30, 18 October 2005 (UTC)''
*'''Delete''' Unnecessary template [[User:Soltak|Soltak]] | [[User_talk:Soltak|Talk]] 22:42, 19 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Delete''', orphan template, and I sincerely don't see how this can be useful. [[User:Titoxd|Tito]]<font color="#008000">[[Wikipedia:Esperanza|xd]]</font><sup>([[User_talk:Titoxd|?!?]])</sup> 19:08, 20 October 2005 (UTC)
 
==== [[Template:River ]]====
 
'''Delete''': No longer used; deprecated by [[Template:Infobox river]]. [[User:Wikiacc|Wikiacc]] [[User talk:Wikiacc|(talk)]] 19:57, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
 
*'''Delete''': I agree with Wikiacc, and confirm that it's no longer in use. &mdash;[[User:Papayoung|Papayoung]] [[User_talk:Papayoung|&#9775;]] 01:16, 19 October 2005 (UTC)
 
*'''Redirect''' to the new one. In this way, we can keep the history. [[User:Gerritholl|Gerrit]] <sup>[[Special:Contributions/Gerritholl|C]][[User:Gerritholl|U]][[User_talk:Gerritholl|T]][[Special:Emailuser/Gerritholl|E]][[Special:Whatlinkshere/User:Gerritholl|D]][http://topjaklont.student.utwente.nl/ H]</sup> 16:04, 19 October 2005 (UTC)
 
====[[Template:User want admin]]====
 
Template is somewhat useless. We don't give out administrator status to those users who make a big thing of it, as far as I know. In addition, the creator ([[User:Adam1213]]) ''likely'' created this after making a big song-and-dance about his two failed Requests for Adminship, and supplemented it all with spamming Jimbo's talk page demanding adminship. [[User:Robchurch|Rob Church]] <sup>''[[User_talk:Robchurch|Talk]]'' | ''[[Wikipedia:Featured Article Help Desk|FAHD]]''</sup> 16:10, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
 
*'''Delete''' - per nomination. [[User:Robchurch|Rob Church]] <sup>''[[User_talk:Robchurch|Talk]]'' | ''[[Wikipedia:Featured Article Help Desk|FAHD]]''</sup> 16:10, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' agree with nom -- ([[User:Drini|drini's page]]|[[User talk:Drini|<big>&#x260E;</big>]]) 16:12, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Delete'''. I happened to see this on a user page several days ago and thought "hmm, that definitely shouldn't exist" but forgot about it. Now I happened to see people talking about this TfD so I think it should go. [[User:Silsor|silsor]] 16:15, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Delete'''. There's a list of non-admins with high edit counts somewhere where you can note your interest in becoming an admin, and I think that's about the extent of advertising one should do about that. '''''<font color="green">[[Wikipedia:Esperanza|a]]</font>'''''<font color="green">[[User:Android79|ndroid]]</font><font color="purple">[[User talk:Android79|79]]</font> 16:18, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
*<s>'''Delete'''</s>, we don't give out adminship on basis of "wanting" it. Often, asking for something is the surest way not to get it. [[User:Titoxd|Tito]]<font color="#008000">[[Wikipedia:Esperanza|xd]]</font><sup>([[User_talk:Titoxd|?!?]])</sup> 16:28, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Strongest possible keep'''. This nomination is absurd. Let people do what they want with their userspace, so long as it isn't harmful, and this clearly isn't. [[User:Christopherparham|Christopher Parham]] [[User_talk:Christopherparham|(talk)]] 20:34, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
**Then he can subst it. You might be unaware that the template is ''not'' in his userspace, so your entire argument is moot. '''Delete'''. --[[User:Golbez|Golbez]] 20:49, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
***Of course, I'm totally aware that the template itself is not in the userspace, but the fact that it is being used only in userspace should extend the privilege of userspace to the template. The only reasons to delete a template used in userspace, that I can see, would be (1) if the template is destructive or harmful, or (2) if it is only used by one user, in which case substing or userfying might be a better solution. [[User:Christopherparham|Christopher Parham]] [[User_talk:Christopherparham|(talk)]] 21:07, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
**** I have to object with the Template: namespace having protections similar to the User: namespace. That defeats the whole purpose of templates, to be able to offer a standarized interface to Wikipedia viewers. However, moving to the userspace is entirely acceptable, so I change my vote to '''delete or userfy'''. [[User:Titoxd|Tito]]<font color="#008000">[[Wikipedia:Esperanza|xd]]</font><sup>([[User_talk:Titoxd|?!?]])</sup> 00:05, 19 October 2005 (UTC)
*****I don't think in general that it should. However, when a template are being used in User space or Usertalk, I think it should recieve the same protections as User space in that 90% of users finding the template unattractive or useless shouldn't impose themselves on the 10% of users who like it. A template to be used in userspace should still have the attributes we usually associate with a template -- i.e. it's used in multiple places, it saves space in the wikitext -- but "somewhat useless" is not a good reason to get rid of templates that other people are using in their userspace. If you really want to get rid of something like this then, before you pull the trigger on deletion, talk to the people using it and ask them to drop it (which in this case probably would have worked just fine). Simple politeness to fellow users is a virtue. [[User:Christopherparham|Christopher Parham]] [[User_talk:Christopherparham|(talk)]] 00:58, 19 October 2005 (UTC)
* '''Delete'''. &mdash; [[User:Rdsmith4|Dan]] | [[User talk:Rdsmith4|Talk]] 21:09, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
* '''Delete''' I had that template but I thought that was a years old template fot if you have intrest on admin and I thought alot of users have or had that template until admin came but than I found out who the creator is........ --[[User:Aranda56|JAranda]]'' | [[User talk:Aranda56|watz sup]] 21:59, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' if a user wants to be an admin she should nominate herself. [[User:BL Lacertae|<font color=red>BL]] [[User talk:BL Lacertae|<font color=gray><small>kiss the lizard</small></font>]] 22:24, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' Silly --[[User:Rogerd|Rogerd]] 22:48, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
* I currently employ this template, although at the same time I don't really care if it gets deleted. The part I don't like is that Rob Church is taking a non-NPOV in his nomination by saying that "it's likely due to adam1234's song and dance after two failed RfA's. That is completely irrelivant to whether or not the template should be deleted. It makes it seem partially like a grudge match, delete someone's template for spamming Jimbo's page. I know Rob Church to be a good man, and this is nothing personal, but I just don't like the tactics employed in trying to get it deleted. --[[User:Appleboy|AppleBoy]] [[User talk:Appleboy|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 23:09, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Strong Keep''' per [[User:Christopherparham|Christopher Parham]]. Template not harmful or offensive, and also very unlikely to actually factor into [[WP:RfA|RfA]]s. Why the fuss? Nobody really speaks [[leet]], but we keep the [[Template:User 1337|template]] that says they do. Almost everybody wants to be an admin, yet we want to delete this template? {{User:Freakofnurture/sig}} 23:23, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
::It ''will'' factor into RfAs. Users with this template will get Oppose votes as they do not believe adminship is "no big deal". [[User:Wikiacc|Wikiacc]] [[User talk:Wikiacc|(talk)]] 21:19, 23 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Delete'''. It is harmful to new users who think that it is part of process rather than one user's well-intentioned but misguided attempt at fast-tracking. It implies that the process works very differently than it does. &mdash; [[Image:Ontario trillium sig.png|15px]][[User:mendel|mendel]] [[User_talk:Mendel|&#9742;]] 23:40, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
*Oooh, I should put this on my userpage :) '''Delete'''. <font color=#9999ff>[[Special:Contributions/Who|&laquo;&raquo;]]</font>[[User:Who|Who]][[User talk:Who|<font color=#00Ff00>?</font><font color=#FF00FF>&iquest;</font><font color=#0033FF>?</font>]]<sup><font color=#cc6600>[[m:User:Who|meta]]</font></sup> 23:42, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Keep'''. I threw this onto my userpage yesterday. I saw it on somebody elses and thought it was funny. More of a joke than something that should be taken seriously...<em>&mdash;<font color="Indigo">[[User:Gaff|Gaff]]</font> <sup><small><b><font color="MediumSlateBlue">[[User_talk:Gaff|ταλκ]]</font></sup></small></b></em> 00:08, 19 October 2005 (UTC)
:*This whole '''debate''' looks like something that I am seeing a '''lot''' of around here: [[Entropy|Wikipedians taking wikipedia too seriously]].<em>&mdash;<font color="Indigo">[[User:Gaff|Gaff]]</font> <sup><small><b><font color="MediumSlateBlue">[[User_talk:Gaff|ταλκ]]</font></sup></small></b></em> 06:22, 19 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Delete'''. Ignore [[User:Robchurch|Rob Church]]'s unfortunate text; I think [[User:mendel|mendel]] has hit on the best reason. I have no problem with someone having a template like this in their user space, certainly, but to have it in the Template namespace is to condone it as a method, isn't it? That's certainly how I (a newcomer) would interpret it. &mdash;<span class="horsepunchkid">[[User:HorsePunchKid|<span style="font-family: monospace; font-variant: small-caps;">HorsePunchKid</span>]]&rarr;[[User talk:HorsePunchKid|<span style="color: #070;">&#x9F9C;</span>]]</span> 00:47, 19 October 2005 (UTC)
::If nothing else, it should be renamed to "user want'''s''' admin". "User want admin" has a very "[[Caveman|Grog]] need fire!" sound to it. <tt>;)</tt> &mdash;<span class="horsepunchkid">[[User:HorsePunchKid|<span style="font-family: monospace; font-variant: small-caps;">HorsePunchKid</span>]]&rarr;[[User talk:HorsePunchKid|<span style="color: #070;">&#x9F9C;</span>]]</span> 00:51, 19 October 2005 (UTC)
::As far as I know, expressing desire to be an admin '''is''' condoned. What would lead us to believe that it's not? [[User:Christopherparham|Christopher Parham]] [[User_talk:Christopherparham|(talk)]] 07:16, 19 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Delete''': It's tacky and misleading. Users are welcome to use the format, but there's no cause to templatise it. --[[User:Cyberjunkie|Cyberjunkie]] | [[User_talk:Cyberjunkie|Talk]] 06:42, 19 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' - the argument that the template namespace gets the same protection as userspace would be valid, if only pages in the template namespace could be used like templates(i.e. including or transcluding(subst)). However, this is not true. Any page can be used as a template, just by surrounding it with <nowiki>{{, }}</nowiki> tags. So, leave templates that are inappropriate or opposed by most wikipedians out of the public areas, and put them in userspace. I'm tempted to vote keep on this, as it does provide a nice list of people who should never, under any circumstances, ever become admins, but that's probably a little too harsh, and some innocent newbies might be caught in it, so, *'''delete'''. [[User:JesseW/sig|JesseW, the juggling janitor]] 06:57, 19 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Delete'''. Tacky and unnecessary. [[User:Gamaliel|Gamaliel]] 07:23, 19 October 2005 (UTC)
* '''Delete''', per nom. &mdash;&nbsp;[[User:Davenbelle|Davenbelle]] 08:44, 19 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Keep'''. Mainly as per Gaff. It's slightly frivolous, but who cares? [[User:The Land|The Land]] 11:46, 19 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''No vote'''. It's been userfied now. use <nowiki>{{User:wantadmin}}</nowiki> instead. Thank you.
**Note that this is unacceptable. That is obviously a role account, and a misunderstanding of the meaning of "userfy". I have listed the page for deletion, as a violation of WP:POINT. Userfy means to make it a subpage of an identified, real wikipedia user, not to create a new user account(sockpuppet) just for this. [[User:JesseW/sig|JesseW, the juggling janitor]] 23:47, 19 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Keep''' harmless. [[User:Grue|<font style="background: black" face="Courier" color=#FFFFFF>'''&nbsp;Grue&nbsp;'''</font>]] 17:20, 19 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Delete'''. Tacky. It feels like a political candidate legally changing his name to "President". [[User:DragonflySixtyseven|DS]] 17:36, 19 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Keep'''. I don't think I'd use it, but there are some people who do, so there's no harm done in keeping it. --[[User:Idont havaname|Idont Havaname]] 18:41, 19 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Keep''' We have user templates for all sorts of things, why not this? One would think that it applies to a significant number of users, so the problem isn't being too specialized. [[User:Y0u|Y0u]] [[User talk:Y0u|(Y0ur talk page)]] [[Special:Contributions/Y0u|(Y0ur contributions)]] 00:03, 20 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Keep or userfy''' per everyone else. I agree that its use is silly, but why is that a reason to delete? ~~ '''[[User:Nickptar|N]]''' ([[User talk:Nickptar|t]]/[[Special:Contributions/Nickptar|c]]) 00:11, 20 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Keep or userfy'''. Slightly frivolous, but utterly harmless (I mean, it's just a ''template''). Wikipedia is not a black-tie formal gathering where people can't use contractions and speak in absurd upper-class English accents. Plus, I like the title. Say it in your [[Strong Mad]] voice. "USER WANT ADMIN! USER WANT ADMIN!!!!" [[User:Lord Bob|Lord Bob]] 15:30, 20 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Delete.''' We have [[WP:RfA|RfA]] for theis kind of thing. / [[User:Peter Isotalo|Peter]] <sup>[[User talk:Peter Isotalo|Isotalo]]</sup> 09:14, 21 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' or keep, but everyone who uses it can never me made an admin. [[User:BrokenSegue|'''B'''roken]] [[User talk:BrokenSegue|'''S''']] 21:26, 23 October 2005 (UTC)
 
====[[Template:Biovan]]====
Useless fork of [[Template:Afd]]. &mdash;[[User:Cryptic|Cryptic]] [[User talk:Cryptic|(talk)]] 14:12, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
:'''Delete''' unneeded. Most vanity fails also under nnbio, and those who not could well use the standard AfD template and then explain on the discussion page the reasons of nomination. -- ([[User:Drini|drini's page]]|[[User talk:Drini|<big>&#x260E;</big>]]) 16:52, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Delete as per [[User:Drini]]. [[User:DESiegel|DES]] [[User talk:DESiegel|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] 21:42, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' per nom --[[User:Rogerd|Rogerd]] 22:52, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
 
 
 
====[[Template:Format]]====
'''Delete''': This template is harsh in its request for <nowiki>{{cleanup}}</nowiki> of a section or article or '''laying down the law'''. '''>:''' [[User:RobyWayne|<span style="color:blue">'''Roby Wayne'''</span>]] <sup>[[User talk:RobyWayne|<span style="color:blue">Talk</span>]]&nbsp;&bull;&nbsp;[[Special:Contributions/RobyWayne|<span style="color:blue">Hist</span>]]&nbsp;&bull;&nbsp;[[Wikipedia:Esperanza|<span style="color:green">E@</span>]]</sup> 00:35, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
:Note: I was trying to find the comment that sayd "Add sections and format this appropriately", but the obvious one didn't exist so I created it. [[User:68.39.174.238|68.39.174.238]] 00:54, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
::Hi, Anon ;-). Thanks for replying. Consider reviewing [[Wikipedia:Template messages/Cleanup]]. There are already quite a few message templates for requesting cleanup, copyediting, etc. '''>:''' [[User:RobyWayne|<span style="color:blue">'''Roby Wayne'''</span>]] <sup>[[User talk:RobyWayne|<span style="color:blue">Talk</span>]]&nbsp;&bull;&nbsp;[[Special:Contributions/RobyWayne|<span style="color:blue">Hist</span>]]&nbsp;&bull;&nbsp;[[Wikipedia:Esperanza|<span style="color:green">E@</span>]]</sup> 01:10, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
:::Alright, ax it. [[User:68.39.174.238|68.39.174.238]] 00:36, 19 October 2005 (UTC)
 
*'''Delete''', as per [[User:RobyWayne|Roby Wayne]]. &mdash; [[User:EagleOne|EagleOne]]\<sup>[[User_talk:EagleOne|Talk]]</sup> 17:20, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Delete''', then create it as a redirect to <nowiki>{{cleanup}}</nowiki>. [[User:Zzyzx11|Zzyzx11]] [[User talk:Zzyzx11|(Talk)]] 01:31, 19 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Delete'''. "Destroy all data?" "Laying down the law?" This reads like a cleanup request written for evil supervillains. --[[User:Aquillion|Aquillion]] 04:48, 19 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Delete''', no redirect [[User:Cdc|<small>CDC</small>]] [[User talk:Cdc|<small>(talk)</small>]] 23:56, 19 October 2005 (UTC)
* I sympathize, but '''delete''' per above. [[User:Jkelly|Jkelly]] 03:46, 21 October 2005 (UTC)
 
=== October 17 ===
 
==== [[Template:Arab subdivision]]====
'''Delete''': This template contains only four links and it is unlikely that there will ever be significantly more. Furthermore:
* [[imarah]] is a redlink;
* [[mintaqah]] has only two links on it and may therefore be more suitable as a disambig page;
* [[muhafazah]] is a duplication of [[governorate]] and should therefore be merged and redirected;
* [[wilayah]] appears to be the only one that is a genuine article. [[User:Timwi|Timwi]] 17:57, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
 
'''Keep''':
* imarah is ''not'' a redlink
* mintaqah has ''not'' only two links on it and is not a mere dab page
* muhafazah is ''not'' a duplicat of governorate. Furthermore consensus was reached to keep [[guberniya]] (russian) seperate from governorate. Are arab governorates worth less? Are they less important than guberniyas? Or french [[département]]?
* wilayah is ''not'' the only genuine article
Instead of deleting the template it and the articles should be extended. A similiar template could be created for russian subdivision terms. These templates easily bind together related articles. It does not harm anybody. But helps the editors. [[User:Timwi]] already deleted this template by abusing his admin rights. He did not ask any involved person before nor did he put up "see also" references, linking the terms together. [[User:Tobias Conradi|Tobias Conradi]] [[User_talk:Tobias Conradi|(Talk)]] 02:06, 18 October 2005 (UTC) AND [[User:Tobias Conradi|Tobias Conradi]] [[User_talk:Tobias Conradi|(Talk)]] 03:14, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
 
:*[[Imarah]] ''was'' a red link when Timwi submitted this template for comment. Now it's just a redirect to [[Emirate]], itself just a paragraph of text with a couple of links.
:*[[Mintaqah]] has more than two links, but that doesn't mean it's not a candidate for being a disambiguation page. See [[Lincoln]], for example. Don't assume that "disambiguation" is somehow a denigration of your work or a demotion of your page.
:*[[Muhafazah]] clearly duplicates the information in [[Governorate]]. The extra information could easily be merged into [[Governorate]], if it is deemed appropriate to do.
::Let's keep the discussion civil and factually accurate. I have no opinion (yet) on the deletion. &mdash;<span class="horsepunchkid">[[User:HorsePunchKid|<span style="font-family: monospace; font-variant: small-caps;">HorsePunchKid</span>]]&rarr;[[User talk:HorsePunchKid|<span style="color: #070;">&#x9F9C;</span>]]</span> 04:18, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
:::*it seems you speak with me - Tobias. I never thought the number of links is any relevant to decide whether the page is dab-tagable. Anyway, is the dab-tag relevant to template deletion as implied by User:Timwi? [[User:Tobias Conradi|Tobias Conradi]] [[User_talk:Tobias Conradi|(Talk)]] 05:32, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
:::*when I visit [[governorate]] I see content that is not on [[muhafazah]]. When I visit muhafazah I see content that is not on governorate. The statement that one is a duplicate of the other is therefore wrong for my computer.
:::*is it any relevant that imarah was a redlink when User:Timwi posted his claimes? I think the template-deletion decision should take into account the most recent status. [[User:Tobias Conradi|Tobias Conradi]] [[User_talk:Tobias Conradi|(Talk)]] 05:32, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
::::I'm sorry I wasn't clear. By "duplicates", I did not mean "completely duplicates everything and contains no other information than what is duplicated". I just meant that it is largely redundant. I thought this was fairly clear from my acknowledgement that ''if necessary'', some information would need to be merged into [[Governorate]]. It is relevant to point out the timing of the red link because you seem to be using it to discredit Timwi's motivations instead of just pointing out the obvious fact that you have (rightly!) fixed it. <small>Side note: please try not to interleave your comments with mine; it makes things harder to follow in the long run.</small> <tt>;)</tt> &mdash;<span class="horsepunchkid">[[User:HorsePunchKid|<span style="font-family: monospace; font-variant: small-caps;">HorsePunchKid</span>]]&rarr;[[User talk:HorsePunchKid|<span style="color: #070;">&#x9F9C;</span>]]</span> 05:44, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
:::::for interleaving: thanks for pointing this out. :-) [[User:Tobias Conradi|Tobias Conradi]] [[User_talk:Tobias Conradi|(Talk)]] 20:36, 19 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Keep'''. A fairly useful template, IMO, especially to people who are interested in Arab subdivisions but have no clue what other subdivisions exist&mdash;for these people the template provides a clean and easy way to review the whole set. Its inclusion into the {{tl|Subnational entity}} template is possible, but it may (and will) make that template cluttered and unwieldy as more national entities are added.&mdash;[[User:Ezhiki|Ëzhiki (erinaceus amurensis)]] 20:23, 19 October 2005 (UTC)
 
*'''Delete''', Wikipedia is [[WP:NOT|not]] a dictionary (much less an Arabic one). The ''subdivisions'' may be important, but not the terms themselves. [[User:Kirill Lokshin|Kirill Lokshin]] 02:15, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
::??????? do you vote for delete muhafazah? I think this is the wrong place. [[User:Tobias Conradi|Tobias Conradi]] [[User_talk:Tobias Conradi|(Talk)]] 02:59, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
:::No, I'm referring to the template. If the terms represent unique ''types'' of subdivisions, they should be added to {{tl|Subnational entity}} directly; if they are merely Arabic terms for subdivisions already present in that template, then they do not require a separate template. [[User:Kirill Lokshin|Kirill Lokshin]] 10:49, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
::::of course they are unique types. But there are maybe 500 unique types around the world (and more). They cannot all go into {{tl|Subnational entity}}. [[User:Tobias Conradi|Tobias Conradi]] [[User_talk:Tobias Conradi|(Talk)]] 20:36, 19 October 2005 (UTC)
 
*'''Comment''' by the creator. I thought of making series for different languages, like it exists on [[Template:Subnational entity]] as far a I can see the latter really has been a success and animated others to add english terms. There are lots of foreign terms around. See [[List of terms for subnational entities]] Maybe the terms can be grouped to make the templates bigger, e.g. the slavic terms may have something in common. Arab probably will stay a smaller template for some time. If you merge the content into worldwide translation pages you cannot give easily an overview to the reader about the terms used in one language region. [[User:Tobias Conradi|Tobias Conradi]] [[User_talk:Tobias Conradi|(Talk)]] 06:05, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
** Wikipedia is not the right place for a collection of foreign-language terms used in other languages. If the subdivisions in all Arab countries are referred to in English as either [[governorate]]s, [[province]]s or anything else already present on {{tl|Subnational entity}}, then the Arab terms should only be redirects to those, and your template becomes redundant as the articles are already linked by {{tl|Subnational entity}}. – [[User:Timwi|Timwi]] 16:04, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
***since they are as far as i know official terms, translation is not that easy. Same terms are translated different. Furthermore, there are whole article series that use foreign terms and there were heavy discussions on whether to translate the terms or not. Take a look on [[Subdivisions of Russia]]. Oblasts are nowhere translated. Same with Ukraine. Maybe dive a little bit more into the subdivisions stuff. As mentioned above for guberniya it was decided not to merge. if template deletion is based on merge and deletion of subnational entity terms, then go through this process first [[User:Tobias Conradi|Tobias Conradi]] [[User_talk:Tobias Conradi|(Talk)]] 17:28, 19 October 2005 (UTC)
**** "since they are as far as i know official terms, translation is not that easy." -- Well, that's funny; let's see, there's [[Provinces of Afghanistan]], [[Governorates of Tunisia]], [[Regions of Oman]] ... where are all the ones with Arab terms? – [[User:Timwi|Timwi]] 22:44, 19 October 2005 (UTC)
 
==== [[Template: Notvandalism ]]====
'''Delete''': Silly-looking box meant to be left at the top of some articles for all time, apparently. There's nothing this template does that can't be done better using HTML comments. [[User:Carnildo|Carnildo]] 06:26, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
*How do you know it's not vandalised? It might have been unlikely to begin with and then vandalised. '''Delete'''. --[[User:fvw|fvw]][[User talk:Fvw|<SMALL><FONT COLOR="green">*</FONT></SMALL>]] 06:46, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Comment From Creator''' Not a problem with me as long as the average user can avoid an rv double take like I almost did today on [[Shin Megami Tensei: Digital Devil Saga]] regarding the mantra called "Wikipedia". Carnildo, i'm only a so-so HTML editor, so I assume you're talking about a <comment> </comment> tage seen only in the editing page or something like that, which should be fine as long as it isn't inadvertently deleted during re-edits. Also, please avoid low level [[WP:CIVIL]] violations such as in the history of Shin Megami Tensei: Digital Devil Saga [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Shin_Megami_Tensei:_Digital_Devil_Saga&action=history]. Trust me, i've been down that road, and although you mean well, that tone will cause anger in alot of people which will just add to the exacerbation of pointless shouting matches over wording. [[User:Karmafist|Karmafist]] 06:58, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
**'''Comment''' I back you 100% on the civility comment. "Stupid-looking" is a phrase that never has any use while editing Wikipedia. I've made that mistake myself, and gotten into long and unnecessarily hostile arguments because of it. -- [[User:SCZenz|SCZenz]] 22:16, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Delete''': potentially misleading, unless the page is protected immediately after applying the tag. Short of that, there' no way to verify whether a page has been re-vadalized after the tag was applied. &mdash; [[User:EagleOne|EagleOne]]\<sup>[[User_talk:EagleOne|Talk]]</sup> 16:57, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' ... or, for that matter, whether the template has been added by a vandal. [[User:FreplySpang|FreplySpang]] [[User talk:FreplySpang|(talk)]] 22:03, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Delete'''. I rather like the thumbs up, but the template is too likely to be misleading. I second the suggestion of using HTML comments; that way at least nobody will complete an edit before they see that it's not vandalism, and the text can be specific to the seemingly-questionable fact. -- [[User:SCZenz|SCZenz]] 22:16, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Delete'''. Box-templates like this over articles are supposed to be ''temporary'' measures, used to encourage the resolution of a dispute... putting one over an article, as the nominator says, "for all time" doesn't strike me as the right thing to do. Additionally, it isn't very informative to place it over the top of a whole article when just one line or word (as in the Shin Megami Tensei article noted above) is really what sparked it. A better way to serve the intended purpose would be to reword the article to make it clear that the 'unlikely-sounding' bit in question is, indeed, true despite sounding unlikely, for instance, by explaining it in greater detail. --[[User:Aquillion|Aquillion]] 04:57, 19 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Delete'''. Wait till a vandal who knows anything about templates discovers this one! --[[User:Idont havaname|Idont Havaname]] 18:43, 19 October 2005 (UTC)
*'''Keep'''. It doesn't hurt anything. [[User:Octalc0de|Octalc0de]] 21:24, 23 October 2005 (UTC)
 
==Holding cell==
:Move templates to the appropriate subsection '''here''' to prepare to delete '''if''' process guidelines are met. Anything listed here or below should have its discussion moved to [[Wikipedia:Templates for deletion/Log]].
 
===To orphan===
:''These templates need to be deleted, but may still be in use on some pages. Somebody (it doesn't need to be an admin, anyone can do it) should fix and/or remove significant usages from pages so that they can be deleted. Note that simple references to them from Talk: pages need not (and in fact should not) be removed.''
 
===To convert to category===
:''Templates for which the consensus is that they ought to be converted to categories get put here until the conversion is completed.''
 
===Ready to delete===
:''Templates for which consensus to delete has been reached, have been orphaned, and the discussion logged to [[Wikipedia:Templates for deletion/Log/Deleted]], can be listed here for an admin to delete. Remove from this list when link indicates the page no longer exists. If these are to be [[WP:CSD|candidates for speedy deletion]], please give a specific reason.''
 
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[[Category:Wikipedia deletion|Templates for deletion]]
[[Category:Wikipedia templates]]
 
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