Talk:Maypole: Difference between revisions

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==Phallic symbolism==

Is the Maypole considered a male penis and what do the ribbons represent? <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/62.252.96.14|62.252.96.14]] ([[User talk:62.252.96.14#top|talk]]) 19:43, 2 May 2005 (UTC)</small>

:I don't know about the ribbons but the maypole is a phallic symbol (i.e. "penis"). -[[User:Thorri|Thorri]] 14:12, 21 Aug 2005 (UTC)

::What evidence is there for the phallic symbol? Sounds speculative!--[[User:Jack Upland|Jack Upland]] 03:03, 7 October 2005 (UTC)

None, though I'm flinching as I write it because people take offence at that sometimes. It's basically psychoanalytic speculation. Sometimes a big stick is just a big stick. Even if it was once somehow linked to phallic symbolism, the time when that might have been the case is, ooh, let's say the best part of 2000 years ago i.e. more than 120 generations ago. how likely do you think it is that any "original" symbolism would still carry meaning today, given that this huge stretch of time has seen the maypole-celebrating regions invaded successively by romans, christians, vikings, christians again, and all before we've got as far as 1000 CE?

It is most likely, on the evidence that we have, that the maypole symbolises a tree. The ribbons do not represent anything other than themselves: they are decorative and/or functional. <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/83.100.210.163|83.100.210.163]] ([[User talk:83.100.210.163#top|talk]]) 11:11, 9 May 2006 (UTC)</small>

:The Man In The Pub brings up Sigmund Freud, and suddenly everything longer than it is wide is a giant schlong. That itself seems to be all that's ever needed or expected. Nobody needs to ask why it's supposed to be a cock, or why anyone would make great big wooden johnsons to dance round.

:I might guess that it goes back to people dancing round trees, which are also wooden and high. Getting rid of the branches means you can do more elaborate dancing. There's at least some tradition of that. It's only Freud and the Romans who saw dongs everywhere. Maybe everyone else was busy working for a living.

:We used to dance round the maypole as kids at school in the 1980s. We had a May Queen too. The less-talented dancers would sit on the feet at the bottom of the pole, as ballast. If we were lucky the ribbons would get tangled and we'd be treated to seeing a 5" woman in her sixties shinning her way up a 10 foot pole. She never failed, either! [[Special:Contributions/188.29.164.65|188.29.164.65]] ([[User talk:188.29.164.65|talk]]) 23:25, 26 September 2013 (UTC)

Ethnic Celtic people and Jews and Romans see penises everywhere. And those three peoples are anti-Germanic. <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/50.103.138.235|50.103.138.235]] ([[User talk:50.103.138.235#top|talk]]) 17:35, 2 April 2014 (UTC)</small>

==England vs. U.K.==

Was the maypole really traditional in the U.K. outside England ? &mdash;[[User:Ashley Y|Ashley Y]] 22:12, 22 May 2005 (UTC)

==John Ruskin==

Did John Ruskin really invent the ribbons? These claims are always hard to ascertain because folklore by its nature isn't written down.--[[User:Jack Upland|Jack Upland]] 03:03, 7 October 2005 (UTC)

"The plaiting of ribbons around the pole was not widely practiced in England until later in the nineteenth century. In 1881 John Ruskin suggested that it be part of the May Day celebrations at Whitelands Teacher Training College. From here it spread to schools all over the country."

http://www.tradamis.co.uk/t6mayp1.htm

[[User:Ogg|Ogg]] 11:23, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

==Sexual symbolism and the maypole==

I recently changed an edit that favors the view of the maypole as tree symbol over a phallic symbol. I can understand where you're coming from, however, I think it's important to note this is still possible since phallic symbolism was not unheard of for this area. Not only do unearthed figures of [[Freyr]] discovered show this very well but [[Adam of Bremen]] also noted similar happenings at the [[Temple at Uppsala]]. [[User:Bloodofox|:bloodofox:]] 09:44, 19 February 2006 (UTC)

:I think the rules round here are, if you haven't got a cite, you're not allowed to change it. This is folklore anyway so there are no true sources for anything. But people did used to worship trees a lot. And penii. Could be either, neither, or both.

:I wouldn't presume to "correct" anything unless I was a professor of history with particular expertise in English rites, and only if maypoles were something I'd done some productive research on. But as an ordinary person I'd guess that nobody knows, and nobody ever will, it's lost knowledge. Re-constructing history out of bits and pieces is really not something for the amateur. This thing has pretensions of being an encyclopaedia, you know! Who'd buy "Have-a-go Britannica"? Even when the pros do it, things get overturned every 60 years or so. [[Special:Contributions/188.29.164.65|188.29.164.65]] ([[User talk:188.29.164.65|talk]]) 23:38, 26 September 2013 (UTC)

=="Maia" & ribbons==

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Additionally, it is reported that the ribbons were not added until the 19th century and involved intricate dancing styles and weaves that now seem to be forgotten. From my perspective the dances and maypoles appear to be linked to pagan fertility celebrations as are the rabbits and eggs of Easter. Using children in these celebrations adds another link to new growth also associated with fertility.

[[User:83.100.210.163|83.100.210.163]] 11:18, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

==John Ruskin==

Did John Ruskin really invent the ribbons? These claims are always hard to ascertain because folklore by its nature isn't written down.--[[User:Jack Upland|Jack Upland]] 03:03, 7 October 2005 (UTC)

:you must remember, though, that the inestimable Funk and Wagnall were dependent on the works of reference available to them at the time. as every generation produced a new work of folklore reference it reproduced and recycled the mistakes and misconceptions of the past. so assertions about the connection with Maia (who was actually a pretty insignificant deity in the scheme of things) that featured in early reference works were picked up by later writers, which were picked up by later writers and so on. ironically, this process has ended up re-inforcing these weak ideas solely because they've been repeated a lot. they were often based on methodologically uncertain scholarship and the antiquarians who peddled them had little recourse to empirical or fieldwork data. ALL sources that cite them or were heavily influenced by them (funk and wagnall and the encyc brit. included, as well as practically everything on the internet) should be treated with caution. <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/83.100.210.163|83.100.210.163]] ([[User talk:83.100.210.163#top|talk]]) 11:18, 9 May 2006 (UTC)</small>

==England vs. U.K.==

Was the maypole really traditional in the U.K. outside England ? &mdash;[[User:Ashley Y|Ashley Y]] 22:12, 2005 May 22 (UTC)

==Use in secondary and high schools==

I've never even heard of a maypole being used in a school dance, neither in my high school, the one I used to go to, nor from any of my friends in different schools...and the picture is from 1910. Can anyone produce documented cases of ''modern'' use of the maypole in the U.S. in this context? If not, it may be a good idea to take that section down. <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/68.160.100.226|68.160.100.226]] ([[User talk:68.160.100.226#top|talk]]) 11:48, 7 September 2006 (UTC)</small>

Mayday exercises and maypoles have been used in South Carolina Schools, especially the black schools since at least 1942. Back then schools in South Carolina were segregated and the black schools used the mayday exercises to raise money to buy books for the students. Students being tired of hand-me-down books from the white schools used the money to buy new books for the students. I was a product of the maypole dancing from 1947 to 1955. However after I went on to high school, I learned that the maypole dancing was a fertility dance in the early spring to bring in good crops for the farmers. <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/70.61.213.66|70.61.213.66]] ([[User talk:70.61.213.66|talk]]) 15:16, 9 January 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

The high school in Portales, New Mexico currently does the Maypole every year and has been doing it for the past 80 years. The senior class participates in this event, practicing for months to perfect the dances as well as the winding of the pole. Girls wind the pole and wear Southern belle type dresses in pastel colors while being escorted by the boys who wear tuxedos. It is a very formal event and began as an alternative to high school dances or proms and has continued throughout many generations. Students also are allowed the opportunity to perform musical pieces (vocal or instrumental). Through the number of participants has varied over the years, in recent times there have been anywhere from 60-80 students involved each year, making up 14-20 couples on each pole (our Maypole consists of two poles) and the Maypole Queen as well as her court. Practices start at the beginning of March and continue until the performances (three performances total) in early May. As far as I know, Portales High School is the only remaining high school in the United States to still do the Maypole, at least in this formal context. <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/71.33.48.213|71.33.48.213]] ([[User talk:71.33.48.213|talk]]) 06:24, 29 April 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

In the 1960's, my all female Roman Catholic High School in Rochester, New York had a May Pole Dance, performed by the elected Senior Class members, while the student body sung hymns. It was held in conjunction with May Day... Towards the end of May, May Day is held. A senior is elected May Queen and has a court of peer elected juniors and seniors that help her organize the ceremony. The Seniors dance around the decorated 'May Pole' and after the statue of 'Mary' is crowned in the Grotto, the seniors prepare for Senior Ball. The year ends in June with the Moving Up Ceremony where the classes provide advice to the classes below them. At the end, the student body moves up seats in the auditorium and the seniors join hands and walk to the stage. It was a tradition of the school since its inception. To my knowledge, the pole did not have any significance or symbolism attached to it. It just held the ribbons and flowers that where used to perform the dance. There are pictures of the May Pole dance on their web site. <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/174.29.158.35|174.29.158.35]] ([[User talk:174.29.158.35#top|talk]]) 17:55, 1 March 2015 (UTC)</small>

==Asherah poles==

Is there any connection between Maypoles and the Asherah poles in Canaan described in the Bible? <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/66.235.44.230|66.235.44.230]] ([[User talk:66.235.44.230#top|talk]]) 04:45, 22 May 2007 (UTC)</small>

==Merge discussion==

The article [[Maypole dance]] contains nothing of significance that is not discussed here. ([[User talk:Lumos3|talk]]) 12:17, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

== Symbolism and Ronald Hutton ==

This section is poorly written. There is no need to insert Ronald Huttons comments all over the place as it's still an ongoing debate. Put his studies in a separate paragraph. It's especially suspicious that his name was introduced by one editor only. Additionally his comments refer to British paganism only. [[Special:Contributions/93.212.51.10|93.212.51.10]] ([[User talk:93.212.51.10|talk]]) 11:56, 30 April 2011 (UTC)

:Agreed. Hutton is hardly an expert on Germanic paganism—which he awkwardly brushes here and there—and the dependence upon him throughout the article is absolutely ridiculous. [[User:Bloodofox|:bloodofox:]] ([[User talk:Bloodofox|talk]]) 20:08, 23 June 2011 (UTC)

I am almost certain the the insistence on Hutton was due to the unyielding "hero worship" given to him by American pagans as the only authority worthy of citation in paganism due to the belief by my fellow American coevals that he has apparently "closed the book" on any debate surrounding most folk-practices and British/ European paganism in general. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/70.39.20.110|70.39.20.110]] ([[User talk:70.39.20.110|talk]]) 19:43, 4 June 2013 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

== Maypole in the Czech Republic ==

Maypoles (Majka in Czech) are also erected in the Czech Republic, on the evening April 30th, and this habit is associated with various folk traditions, especially with guarding the Majka overnight, drinking beer, folk dances (polka etc.). The habit is especially common in South Bohemia, where Majka stands in many villages over the entire year and is replaced by a new one just on April 30th. Majka in CZ is usually a spruce where all lateral branches except of the top are removed, as well as the bark, and the tree is decorated by colourful ribbons and one wreath. In many villages the habit is also associated with Beltaine fires and the celebration of Walpurgis night (see also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walpurgis_Night) <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/90.176.141.38|90.176.141.38]] ([[User talk:90.176.141.38|talk]]) 20:43, 30 April 2012 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

==Merging content from Maypole Dancing==

Proposed in 2011, so I'm doing it. I made sure the various external pages were still there and folded in any cited, live, and non-spam material.

{{merged-from|Maypole dance|3 February 2014}}

[[User: Cryptosmith]]

<span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|undated]] comment added 04:23, 4 February 2014 (UTC)</span><!--Template:Undated--> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

== Maypoles in the US ==

I'm American, and I've never heard of anyone having a maypole here. The article that's cited is from only *one* ___location where they had one for ten years. No one else knew what it was, so their website explains it. They no longer even have this festival. How this could lead to someone saying that we have maypoles at our schools and festivals, I don't know. A Renaissance festival is a place to celebrate European traditions, not American ones, so the picture of a maypole at a Renn Faire doesn't demonstrate in any way that Americans have maypoles. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/71.191.228.222|71.191.228.222]] ([[User talk:71.191.228.222|talk]]) 01:30, 25 May 2014 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

I recall Maypole dancing being halted and prohibited in our school system (Birmingham, ALabama because any perceived celebration of May Day was seem not only as sacreligious, but also as support for the Communist revolution in the USSR. To my knowledge, it has not been brought back yet. Old prejudice dies hard. <!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Papabill1945|Papabill1945]] ([[User talk:Papabill1945#top|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Papabill1945|contribs]]) 03:37, 17 August 2019 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

==Concerns of User:CorbieVreccan ==

Hi,

First of all I have not edited this article ever even anonymously. I wanted to source brief content from this article to other article regarding [[Pole worship]]. But another [[User:CorbieVreccan]]

has informed that he has got some objection with the content, basically content of this article needs to be debated in this article. I call upon [[User:CorbieVreccan]] to detail his objections here and request other users to form a consenus and improve this article.

While considerable content of this article seems to have been written anonymously ([https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Maypole&action=info Page information uptill now of this article] shows Total number of distinct authors352, Total number of edits 612 number of page watchers are 62 out of that 10 vesited recently so article is of intrest to enough editors then why not have a healthy discussion) just I will request other users who have already participated in this article development like [[User:Fizzypopman]] [[User:Jonathan de Boyne Pollard]] [[User:Rjencylopedia]] and others to help address concerns of [[User:CorbieVreccan]]

Thanks and regards

[[User:Mahitgar|Mahitgar]] ([[User talk:Mahitgar|talk]]) 07:46, 27 September 2015 (UTC)

== External links modified ==

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== One possible origin of Maypoles ==

Ancient Hungarians were definitely not Germans and lived thousands of kilometres east from the alleged source of this traditon (Rhineland) and used maytrees centuries before germans, but we are used to being neglected while searching for roots of traditions of the western folks. Our "barbarian" ancestors brought horses, carriages, even the underwear to Europe, and I'm not surprised this article doesn't even mention the Hungarian may-tree. Check the hungarian article for details, but to summarize the essence of it: ancient Hungarians used some wonderfully constructed mobile-yurts that had an important element: the "god-tree", which actually was the main holding pole at the center of the yurt, about 4,5 meters high. It's important part was the "karim", which was a horizontal woodden circle near the top - it functioned as a holder for the strings that were attached to the "walls" of the yurt that was hung on it. When a young boy reached manhood, his first thing to do was to show he is able to establish a new family and to build his own yurt, so he went into a forest and cut his own "god-tree". He often carved some traditional motifs into it. The god-tree couldn't be used right then, it needed to cut out before Spring and needed to let it get dried until Autumn when it could be used, so the young lads had these trees around their yurts, waiting to be used. When a young lad had a god-tree he could choose a wife for himself, he took his friends and during nighttime they dug the pole in front of his sweetheart's family yurt - signalling he is an able man to marry the girl. They decorated the pole with gifts to the girl. The girl was supposed to receive the maytree by lighting a candle and servicing drinks to the guys. [[User:Zoltan bereczki|Zoltan_Bereczki]] ([[User talk:Zoltan bereczki|talk]]) 20:59, 30 March 2018 (UTC)

:Thanks for sharing. It is an interesting article! I like this factual interpretation of the maypole much better than all of the fiction hypothesis I have read. [[Special:Contributions/2603:6010:AB04:85F1:7880:82F7:D36F:4797|2603:6010:AB04:85F1:7880:82F7:D36F:4797]] ([[User talk:2603:6010:AB04:85F1:7880:82F7:D36F:4797|talk]]) 00:47, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

==May/ Summer Poles as an Axis Mundi==

Which (preferably contemporary) scholars advocate for this theory? It is a theory of mine, as well, which I would like to investigate further. <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/70.39.20.64|70.39.20.64]] ([[User talk:70.39.20.64#top|talk]]) 19:19, 22 September 2018 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

== Maypole Dancing ==

I see that the (small) Maypole Dancing article was merged into this one, but the info is hard to find. Would it be a good idea for it to be a labelled section at least? Unless I've missed another bit, there's just some stuff about it under the Britain regional section with no heading. The info there does seem to be as good as what was in the separate article but if I hadn't gone digging I'd have missed it - indeed at first I thought there was nothing on wikipedia about the dancing at all. (I actually feel like the topic is worthy of a separate article but it would need more content than the original article had or this one has.) <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/14.200.198.24|14.200.198.24]] ([[User talk:14.200.198.24#top|talk]]) 02:46, 20 June 2021 (UTC)</small>

== "[[:MAYPOLE TRADITION IN BAVARIA]]" listed at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|Redirects for discussion]] ==

[[File:Information.svg|30px]]

The redirect <span class="plainlinks">[//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=MAYPOLE_TRADITION_IN_BAVARIA&redirect=no MAYPOLE TRADITION IN BAVARIA]</span> has been listed at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|redirects for discussion]] to determine whether its use and function meets the [[Wikipedia:Redirect|redirect guidelines]]. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at '''{{slink|Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 September 27#MAYPOLE TRADITION IN BAVARIA}}''' until a consensus is reached. <!-- from Template:RFDNote --> [[User:JalenFolf|<span style="font-size:1.2em;font-family:eurofurence;background:#368ec9;color:white">Jalen Folf</span>]] [[User talk:JalenFolf|<span style="background:#6babd6;color:black">(talk)</span>]] 17:38, 27 September 2023 (UTC)

==Non-Euro/North American countries==

can someone do a section on maypole in non-Euro/North American countries? You find maypole traditions in the Caribbean and Latin American countries <!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Nigel Durrant|Nigel Durrant]] ([[User talk:Nigel Durrant#top|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Nigel Durrant|contribs]]) 21:28, 29 September 2023 (UTC)</small>

==Wiki Education assignment: Dance and Society==

{{dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment | course = Wikipedia:Wiki_Ed/Cooper_Union/Dance_and_Society_(Fall_2024) | assignments = [[User:Joanmn0213|Joanmn0213]] | start_date = 2024-09-04 | end_date = 2024-12-20 }}

<span class="wikied-assignment" style="font-size:85%;">— Assignment last updated by [[User:Archival-dance|Archival-dance]] ([[User talk:Archival-dance|talk]]) 14:04, 10 December 2024 (UTC)</span>

== Moving the 'symbolism' section to after the 'regional traditions' section? ==

I find it a little weird that the 'symbolism' section is the very first thing in the article after the introduction, as if the symbolism is the most important part of a maypole. I propose moving it to after the 'regional traditions' section, as the things people do with a maypole is kind of the key part of what an encyclopedia article about a maypole should be. Thoughts? [[User:Zhuvelo|Zhuvelo]] ([[User talk:Zhuvelo|talk]]) 18:40, 10 June 2025 (UTC)