Talk:Doctor Who missing episodes: Difference between revisions

Revision as of 16:43, 25 March 2006

Latest revision as of 15:22, 14 May 2025

(489 intermediate revisions by more than 100 users not shown)

Line 1:

{{featuredtalk header}}

{{Article history

{{Doctorwhoproject}}

|action1=PR

{{oldpeerreview}}

|action1date=04:05, 8 October 2005

|action1link=Wikipedia:Peer review/Doctor Who missing episodes/archive1

|action1result=reviewed

|action1oldid=24983250

|action2=FAC

==Missing episodes FA==

|action2date=11:07, 4 November 2005

I figured that splitting this off would make people more willing to dive in rather than expand an already bloated main article, and I'm happy to see I was right. :) This is on its way to being a candidate for peer review and perhaps after that FAC. It'd be good to have a completely non-crufty ''Doctor Who'' FA. --[[User:Khaosworks|khaosworks]] ([[User talk:Khaosworks|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Khaosworks|contribs]]) 02:18, 1 October 2005 (UTC)

|action2link=Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Doctor Who missing episodes

:I agree. Sometimes, it's difficult to find something to do when activity slows, so a new article always livens things up. Also, I was on RC patrol today and noticed you moving "Doctor Who Missing Episodes" (then a redirect) to the current title, and knew you were up to something :). It's interesting what you say about the FAC, because although I think [[Doctor (Doctor Who)]] and [[History of Doctor Who]] are fantastic articles, they get quite [[geek]]y at times (of course, I don't doubt that many of us consider that a ''good'' thing, but that's that) and are therefore unlikely to get Featured status :( , but I can see this one (with some rewriting and expanding, of course) getting through. --[[User:Sean Black|Sean]] [[User talk:Sean Black|Jelly Baby?]] 02:32, 1 October 2005 (UTC)

|action2result=promoted

|action2oldid=26697814

|action3=FAR

::I think [[History of Doctor Who]] only gets particularly geeky when it reaches the new series bit – mind you, I probably would say that given that I wrote most of the earlier stuff! However, there's a good reason for that. With the 'classic series' history it's easier to pick out what was important, but with the new series the temptation is to throw *everything* in because we have so much detail so readily available, which is why it's a bit out of proportion to the other sections at the moment. Anyway, as for this piece, it'd be great if we could get it up to FA standard. It would certainly be good to have a 'serious' ''Doctor Who'' piece there, and also it would be good to have a high-standard article on the problem of junkings, as the general [[Wiping (magnetic tape)]] page isn't that great and probably in the wrong place anyway, as it also refers to the junking of telerecordings. But anyway, that's not really for here. [[User:Angmering|Angmering]] 08:51, 1 October 2005 (UTC)

|action3date=07:49, 2 May 2007

|action3link=Wikipedia:Featured article review/Doctor Who missing episodes/archive1

|action3result=kept

|action3oldid=126914731

|action4=FTC

:::Hey, good luck with the current FA candidacy! I hope my little two cents can help :) --[[User:JohnDBuell|JohnDBuell]] | [[User talk:JohnDBuell|Talk]] 17:11, 23 October 2005 (UTC)

|action4date=21:03, 12 December 2008

:::Oh and one teeny weenie little quibble - chronologically shouldn't the section on Recovery come BEFORE the section on Restoration? --[[User:JohnDBuell|JohnDBuell]] | [[User talk:JohnDBuell|Talk]] 17:37, 23 October 2005 (UTC)

|action4link=Wikipedia:Featured topic candidates/Doctor Who serials and episodes/archive1

|action4result=not promoted

|action4oldid=255925517

|action5 = FAR

::::I thought that, and re-structured it as such at one point. M'learned friends disagreed by the looks of it. Anybody have any other thoughts on the matter? [[User:Angmering|Angmering]] 17:40, 23 October 2005 (UTC)

|action5date = 2021-05-15

|action5link = Wikipedia:Featured article review/Doctor Who missing episodes/archive2

|action5result = demoted

|action5oldid = 1020662445

|currentstatus=FFA

:::::My fault, I'm afraid. I shuffled Restoration before Recovery because I felt that it made more chronological sense, as Recovery has specific events (i.e. the clips from ''The Power of the Daleks'') that take us all the way to the present day. Go ahead and resuffle them if you feel strongly enough about it. --[[User:Khaosworks|khaosworks]] ([[User talk:Khaosworks|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Khaosworks|contribs]]) 22:40, 23 October 2005 (UTC)

|maindate=November 23, 2008

}}

{{WikiProject banner shell|class=C|1=

{{WikiProject Doctor Who|importance=High}}

{{WikiProject Television|importance=Mid|episode-coverage=Yes|episode-coverage-importance=mid|british-television=yes|british-television-importance=High}}

{{WikiProject England|importance=Low}}

{{WikiProject BBC|importance=High}}

}}

{{British-English}}

{{User:MiszaBot/config

|archiveheader = {{aan}}

|maxarchivesize = 100K

|counter = 2

|minthreadsleft = 4

|minthreadstoarchive = 1

|algo = old(1000d)

|archive = Talk:Doctor Who missing episodes/Archive %(counter)d

}}

== Two Hartnell episodes have been found ==

::::::I've made the switch. Even with the specific events thing, I do feel it sits more comfortably that way — after all, you can't restore something if you've never recovered it. (Although of course much of the restoration work is on stuff that was never entirely missing, i.e. the Pertwees and some of the sixties serials). [[User:Angmering|Angmering]] 22:56, 23 October 2005 (UTC)

Two Hartnell episodes have been found [[Special:Contributions/197.89.10.49|197.89.10.49]] ([[User talk:197.89.10.49|talk]]) 09:15, 19 November 2023 (UTC)

:::::::That was about the way I felt about it. Perhaps not ''exactly'' chronological, but recovery, to me, logically seemed that it should precede restoration. You're doing an excellent job with the article and the material; I just cast my vote in the FA candidacy. --[[User:JohnDBuell|JohnDBuell]] | [[User talk:JohnDBuell|Talk]] 23:34, 23 October 2005 (UTC)

:A statement like that is so vague as to be worthless. Which episodes? When were they found? If it was in, say, 1984, then it is old news. But most importantly: how do you know this? Without a [[WP:RS|reliable source]], you're simply not going to be believed. --[[User:Redrose64|<span style="color:#a80000; background:#ffeeee; text-decoration:inherit">Red</span>rose64]] &#x1f339; ([[User talk:Redrose64|talk]]) 11:20, 19 November 2023 (UTC)

::A quick news search reveals they were probably referring to [https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2023/nov/11/lost-doctor-who-episodes-found-owner-reluctant-to-hand-them-to-bbc this story]. [[User:Bondegezou|Bondegezou]] ([[User talk:Bondegezou|talk]]) 21:54, 19 November 2023 (UTC)

:::Unfortunately I think the story is false as the people mentioned in the news article say they never said anything about it. [[User:IrishDeafBoy|IrishDeafBoy]] ([[User talk:IrishDeafBoy|talk]]) 10:59, 28 November 2023 (UTC)

This is now in the article, but unfortunately isn't accurate. The Observer article only cites John Franklin as their source, and he says that they misquoted him. An article covering this can be found [https://www.belloflostsouls.net/2023/11/classic-doctor-who-and-measuring-expectations-over-lost-episodes.html here] (seems to be a RS with editorial oversight). Would anyone object if I replaced the current paragraph with a final sentence added to the paragraph before, something along the lines of:

==Syfy Portal==

: {{tq|In November 2023, film collector John Franklin repeated these claims to ''[[The Observer]]'', which reported that two more episodes had been found, but the owners were reluctant to return them to the BBC.}}

Check [http://www.syfyportal.com/features.php?id=173 this] out - horrible typos (like BCC, and "103" missing episodes instead of 108), but does anyone else get the feeling this was researched using Wikipedia? --[[User:Khaosworks|khaosworks]] ([[User talk:Khaosworks|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Khaosworks|contribs]]) 22:27, 17 November 2005 (UTC)

I also couldn't find Philip Morris saying "he was negotiating their return to the BBC" in the interview linked to, but he does say that the last episode of ''The Web of Fear'' is also out there. --<span style="text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em">[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]</span><span style="text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em">^{[[User talk:Yodin|T]]}</span> 01:21, 17 July 2024 (UTC)

:If by "research", you mean they skimmed this article and didn't look at anything else, then yes :). Nice to know somebody's watching, though. BTW, how'd you find that?--[[User:Sean Black|Sean]]|[[User talk:Sean Black|Bla]][[Wikipedia:Esperanza|<font color="green">ck</font>]] 22:51, 17 November 2005 (UTC)

:I've made the above changes. It seems like the Morris negotiation claims were from [https://thewertzone.blogspot.com/2020/08/seven-missing-doctor-who-episodes.html this blog], which Morris called [https://mobile.twitter.com/archives1963/status/1297858028952268800 "completely false and fake"]. Might be worth moving this entire paragraph from the "List of missing episodes" section to the "Continuing search" section above, and including the counterclaims by Morris and Franklin. --<span style="text-shadow:grey 0.15em 0.15em 0.1em">[[User:Yodin|Yodin]]</span><span style="text-shadow:grey 0.25em 0.25em 0.12em">^{[[User talk:Yodin|T]]}</span> 10:36, 17 July 2024 (UTC)

::Now that I read it more I think whoever wrote it based it on an older version of the missing episodes info. But be that as it may - I found it on Google News, doing a periodic "Doctor Who" troll through the search engine. --[[User:Khaosworks|khaosworks]] ([[User talk:Khaosworks|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Khaosworks|contribs]]) 23:24, 17 November 2005 (UTC)

== Celestial Toymaker DVD release date ==

==Missing Without Trace==

Should the Missing Without Trace [http://www.btinternet.com/~dr_paul_lee/MWT.htm website] be listed as a link? Much of the information is inaccurate. Although significantly improved over the years, there are still some really wild and unrealistic comments in it. And it doesn't appear to have been a reference used in writing the text? [[User:DrPaulLee]] appears to have added this link today to this article. [[User:Nfitz|Nfitz]] 19:38, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

:Technically, it isn't listed as a reference, but given that it's been put in by the author, we can justifably remove it as vanity. --[[User:Khaosworks|khaosworks]] ([[User talk:Khaosworks|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Khaosworks|contribs]]) 23:46, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

::Agreed. Though Paul's article is certainly quite noteworthy in some manner - if only for it's place in fandom history. I've put some text on his own [User:DrPaulLee|page]. Perhaps it is his [http://google.com/group/rec.arts.drwho/msg/e268496f1e011d24 original article] that is noteworthy! There aren't any "Doctor Who Fandom" pages are there? Or some kind of section on history and rumours, etc ... [[User:Nfitz|Nfitz]] 18:50, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

{{u|Offa29}}, you keep reverting people saying that there's no release date for the Celestial Toymaker DVD. As per a previous edit summary, [https://www.radiotimes.com/tv/sci-fi/doctor-who-60th-specials-dvd-release-newsupdate/ this] gives a 2023 release date. This is also the date given at [[The_Celestial_Toymaker#Home_media]]. [[User:Bondegezou|Bondegezou]] ([[User talk:Bondegezou|talk]]) 14:24, 8 December 2023 (UTC)

==Death in Canada==

Why would the [[CBC]] have had a copy of ''[[Death to the Daleks]]'' episode one? Surely they didn't show anything between ''[[The Keys of Marinus]]'' and ''[[Rose (Doctor Who)|Rose]]''? Should this in fact read [[TV Ontario]]? [[User:Angmering|Angmering]] 18:25, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

:That seems to be the release date for the 60th anniversay specials, Celestial Toymaker isn't mentioned at that link. '''--[[User:Woodensuperman|<span style="background:yellow; color:red;;">wooden</span>]][[User talk:Woodensuperman|<span style="background:yellow; color:blue;;">superman</span>]]''' 14:36, 8 December 2023 (UTC)

:Ah, mea culpa. I knew it was a Canadian station and thought it was that one. But which station was it who took over from TV Ontario in the late 1980s and took the series across the whole continent? [[User:Timrollpickering|Timrollpickering]] 22:14, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

::My apologies. I don't know who put the date at [[The_Celestial_Toymaker#Home_media]], but I'll remove it from there too. [[User:Bondegezou|Bondegezou]] ([[User talk:Bondegezou|talk]]) 14:42, 8 December 2023 (UTC)

:::Oh, god, my apologies again. The text there gives a date of the announcement, not the release! Doh. [[User:Bondegezou|Bondegezou]] ([[User talk:Bondegezou|talk]]) 14:43, 8 December 2023 (UTC)

== Bad citations ==

::I'm no expert on the Canadian showings, but I believe that aside from the CBC showings in the 1960s and from 2005, it's only ever been nationally networked in Canada on the [[Space: The Imagination Station]] cable network for a brief period in the 1990s. Aside from that I think it was all regional. I wouldn't take that as gospel however &mdash; I will change the CBC mention in the article, though. [[User:Angmering|Angmering]] 22:21, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

"Doctor Who is unusual in that each of its 97 missing episodes survives in audio form, recorded off-air by fans at home.[4] "

:::[[YTV (Canadian television)|YTV]] started airing Doctor Who nationally in around 1988; being the first network to air Season 25 and Season 26. They aired the older material until 1992 or 1993 or so. [[Space: The Imagination Station|Space]] picked up the Hartnell through Ambassadors of Death which they aired nationally from 1996 to 2000. And [[BBC Kids]] has been airing all the extant colour serials (Pertwee to McCoy) nationally continuously since 2001. Regionally, [[TVO]] aired Doctor Who from 1976 to 1991, but only in [[Ontario]] (though I used to watch it on cable in [[Quebec]]). [[CKVU]] in [[Vancouver]] aired 13 of the Pertwee serials in the early 1980's. And the only other Canadian airing I'm aware of is [[TFO]]'s French-language Ontario broadcasts in the 1990's. Wasn't Death to the Daleks colour material from Canada returned from BBC Enterprises office in Toronto? Not sure if the tape that was returned was ever at YTV (or just a copy that they would have later wiped). [[User:Nfitz|Nfitz]] 00:49, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

Is there any actual source for this? From what I can tell the citation here is being used for a footnote about an unrelated TV show, and the statement is not supported. [[Special:Contributions/2600:1700:96D3:D900:B041:90FF:FEA3:27B9|2600:1700:96D3:D900:B041:90FF:FEA3:27B9]] ([[User talk:2600:1700:96D3:D900:B041:90FF:FEA3:27B9|talk]]) 04:11, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

== Z-Cars claim ==

== [[The Web of Fear]] episode 1 ==

The statement "while other series such as ''[[Z-Cars]]'' and ''[[Dixon of Dock Green]]'' are missing episodes from as late as 1975" would not seem to be correct for the former. According to [[List of Z-Cars episodes]] every episode still exists from the series that started in September 1974 and from all later series. Indeed this article would indicate that the last missing episode of ''Z-Cars'' was ''Dinner Break'' broadcast on 11 March 1974. [[User:Dunarc|Dunarc]] ([[User talk:Dunarc|talk]]) 21:49, 25 February 2024 (UTC)

A listing of archive material drawn up in 1976 for the ''[[Whose Doctor Who]]'' documentary (reproduced in ''Nothing at the End of the Lane'' 2) apparently shoots down a number of previously assumed facts about the archives (although it may not be 100% accurate - the holdings for Season 6 suggests someone got their episode numbers muddled). One of the surprises is that it lists a copy of this episode as existing back in 1976. Should we list this as a subsequent recovery or not? [[User:Timrollpickering|Timrollpickering]] 21:35, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

'''Questions about Editing'''

Okay, why are you allowed to edit items, but when I do, I immediately get threatened to have my access revoked? Seems like someone is having a power trip in my opinion. I am only trying to improve the site. Ian Levine's harsh comments are necessary in my view due to the fact that he represents the attitude of the average fan who was taken in by "fans" like Roger Barret and Darren Gregory. I can also back up the source of these materials if necessary.