Talk:Catholic University of America: Difference between revisions

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Bravo to those making recent changes to the article; I admit my changes were pretty minor and I wish I'd have had the time to make such a comprehensive article as now exists. Again, thank you for your efforts. --[[User:Sarcasticninja|Sarcasticninja]] 03:51, Aug 3, 2004 (UTC)
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| date1 = 13 October 2015
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| date2 = 27 June 2025
| from2 = Catholic University of America
| destination2 = The Catholic University of America
| result2 = not moved
| link2 = Talk:Catholic University of America#Requested move 27 June 2025
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== Definite article ==
Thanks for the info box. Maybe we can make this as comprehensive as Georgetown's. --[[User:Jonathan.King|Jonathan.King]] 00:13, Aug 20, 2004 (UTC)
 
[[WP:THEUNI]] gives a two prong test for deciding if you should use a definite article in an article name: "only if ''The'' is used in running text throughout university materials and if that usage has caught on elsewhere."
lol, oh my, i should start making corrections.
--[[User:Evesummernight|Evesummernight]] 04:13, 17 July 2005 (UTC)--[[User:evesummernight|evesummernight]]
 
The T in "the" is clearly capitalized in [https://communications.catholic.edu/news/ CUA's own materials]. Most of the first page Google news results also use a capital T in "the": [https://www.cathstan.org/local/we-have-an-american-pope-students-at-washington-area-catholic-schools-witness-history Catholic Standard], [https://www.osvnews.com/catholics-at-national-shrine-in-washington-share-initial-reaction-hopes-for-new-pope/ OSV News], [https://dctheaterarts.org/2025/04/26/bluegrass-musical-bright-star-shines-at-catholic-university/ DC Theater Arts], and elsewhere. The correct title of the article should be The Catholic University of America. --[[User:Slugger O'Toole|Slugger O'Toole]] ([[User talk:Slugger O'Toole|talk]]) 12:08, 14 May 2025 (UTC)
Can someone put together a notable faculty list? People like [[Oleg Kalugin]], former [[KGB]] spy
 
== Requested move 27 June 2025 ==
 
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:''The following is a closed discussion of a [[Wikipedia:Requested moves|requested move]]. <span style="color: var(--color-error, red);">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a [[Wikipedia:move review|move review]] '''after''' discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.''
 
The result of the move request was: '''Not moved''' <small>([[Wikipedia:Requested moves/Closing instructions#Non-admin closure|non-admin closure]])</small>. [[User:Graham11|Graham11]] ([[User talk:Graham11|talk]]) 04:28, 5 July 2025 (UTC)
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[[:Catholic University of America]] → {{no redirect|The Catholic University of America}} – For the reasons stated above, and repeated here, which have been uncontested for the last 6 weeks.
 
[[WP:THEUNI]] gives a two prong test for deciding if you should use a definite article in an article name: "only if ''The'' is used in running text throughout university materials and if that usage has caught on elsewhere."
 
The T in "the" is clearly capitalized in [https://communications.catholic.edu/news/ CUA's own materials]. Most of the first page Google news results also use a capital T in "the": [https://www.cathstan.org/local/we-have-an-american-pope-students-at-washington-area-catholic-schools-witness-history Catholic Standard], [https://www.osvnews.com/catholics-at-national-shrine-in-washington-share-initial-reaction-hopes-for-new-pope/ OSV News], [https://dctheaterarts.org/2025/04/26/bluegrass-musical-bright-star-shines-at-catholic-university/ DC Theater Arts], and elsewhere. The correct title of the article should be The Catholic University of America. [[User:Slugger O&#39;Toole|Slugger O&#39;Toole]] ([[User talk:Slugger O&#39;Toole|talk]]) 01:24, 27 June 2025 (UTC)
*We should look at independent sources. The first independent source I notice in the article is [https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/2021/09/22/catholic-university-president-steps-down/ this] ''Washington Post'' article. It does not use "The". This seems rather similar to [[Ohio State University]] at first glance, where "The" is being used with a promotional intent rather than being a natural part of how people would refer to the place. Another source cited in the article that doesn't include "The" is [https://www.kgun9.com/news/education/catholic-university-to-launch-tucson-business-degree-program this]. —⁠ ⁠[[User:BarrelProof|BarrelProof]] ([[User talk:BarrelProof|talk]]) 03:19, 27 June 2025 (UTC)
*:Are the three sources I provided (and plenty of others) not independent? As I said, most of the first page Google news results use a capital T, which I contend makes it "''reasonably common'' in external sources."--[[User:Slugger O&#39;Toole|Slugger O&#39;Toole]] ([[User talk:Slugger O&#39;Toole|talk]]) 03:33, 27 June 2025 (UTC)
*::The first two of those appear to be Catholic publications and thus not especially independent at first glance. In such a case where the "The" appears unnatural and promotional, I would personally lean toward not including it. —⁠ ⁠[[User:BarrelProof|BarrelProof]] ([[User talk:BarrelProof|talk]]) 03:39, 27 June 2025 (UTC)
*:::1. You raise a fair concern about independence, but affiliation with the Catholic Church does not automatically entail editorial or institutional control. Outlets like OSV News and the Catholic Standard may share a religious orientation, but that doesn’t mean they lack independent judgment. The key is whether they reflect independent, external usage. In this case, multiple sources clearly do.
*:::2. Beyond those, there are ample secular examples of places to find a capital T, including: [https://cobbcountycourier.com/2025/06/kennesaw-state-assistant-professor-named-2025-aia-georgia-educator-of-the-year/ The Cobb County Courier], [https://irontontribune.com/2025/05/26/school-news-17/ The Ironton Tribune], [https://www.aei.org/research-products/journal-publication/constitutional-theory-at-a-catholic-university/ the American Enterprise Institute], etc.
*:::3. The naming convention asks whether the university itself uses a capital T (it does) and whether this usage is reasonably common in external sources (it is). That’s the whole test. Whether the name feels “promotional” isn’t part of the standard. --[[User:Slugger O&#39;Toole|Slugger O&#39;Toole]] ([[User talk:Slugger O&#39;Toole|talk]]) 04:15, 27 June 2025 (UTC)
 
*'''Oppose''', per BarrelProof, [[WP:THEUNI]], and [[WP:COMMONNAME]]. Nationally recognized [[newspaper of record]] [[NYTimes]] consistently uses "... the Catholic University of America" instead of "... The Catholic University of America" (the capitalized "The" version) in running text ([https://www.nytimes.com/2021/12/24/arts/design/george-floyd-painting-catholic-university.html 1], [https://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/18/us/nationalspecial2/18students.html 2], [https://www.nytimes.com/1967/10/01/archives/catholic-u-strike-backed-by-rector-new-official-is-adherent-of.html 3]). This is also the case with the other three newspapers of record in the United States: [[WSJ]] ([https://www.wsj.com/articles/top-colleges-in-the-south-for-student-to-faculty-ratio-1483731527 1], [https://www.wsj.com/articles/BL-LB-40279 2]), [[WaPo]] ([https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/catholic-university-plans-to-cut-full-time-faculty-by-9-percent/2018/04/30/f824d0c2-4c82-11e8-af46-b1d6dc0d9bfe_story.html 1], [https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/four-nuns-have-formed-a-band-yes-its-called-force-of-habit/2017/04/21/06d5198c-1f8a-11e7-be2a-3a1fb24d4671_story.html 2]), [[LATimes]] ([https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1990-06-23-ca-295-story.html 1], [https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1996-11-14-mn-64669-story.html 2]). I would suggest not to move the page title. Moreover, there was a prior discussion on the page title at [[Talk:Catholic University of America/Archive 1#Requested move 13 October 2015]], which I found persuasive. [[User:Cfls|Cfls]] ([[User talk:Cfls|talk]]) 01:28, 1 July 2025 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' per BarrelProof, Cfls and [[WP:THE]]. -- [[User:Necrothesp|Necrothesp]] ([[User talk:Necrothesp|talk]]) 14:03, 2 July 2025 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' per Barrel Proof and Cfls. THEUNI's two-pronged test is clear that <u>both</u> conditions must be met. Reasonable editors may disagree about the threshold, but I am persuaded by pattern of usage in reliable, independent sources surveyed here. As to whether {{tq|feels “promotional”}} is a valid consideration, this is in fact a theme throughout our naming conventions and MOS with respect to capitalization and fanciful styling. In general, we ignore such non-standard capitalization and other flourishes that brands and institutions commonly adopt, except when such usage predominates in the wild. --[[User:Myceteae|<span style="font-family: verdana; color: blue;"><b>MYCETEAE</b></span>]] 🍄‍🟫—[[User talk:Myceteae|<span style="font-family: verdana;"><i>talk</i></span>]] 19:48, 4 July 2025 (UTC)
<div style="padding-left: 1.6em; font-style: italic; border-top: 1px solid #a2a9b1; margin: 0.5em 0; padding-top: 0.5em">The discussion above is closed. <b style="color: var(--color-error, red);">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.</div><!-- from [[Template:Archive bottom]] -->
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