Talk:Reform Party of Canada: Difference between revisions

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Shouldn't this article end at the point where the Reform party ceases to exist (i.e., when the Alliance was created)? Anyone wanting to know more can click on the link to the Alliance article. [[User:HistoryBA|HistoryBA]] 14:03, 11 Jul 2004 (UTC)

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==Free trade==

Was the Reform party really pro free trade? I distinctively remember our local MP campaigning against NAFTA. <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/58.94.176.150|58.94.176.150]] ([[User talk:58.94.176.150#top|talk]]) 11:24, 16 September 2020 (UTC)</small>

== Why the name Reform? ==

: I agree with you - it would be worth spending a few minutes to end the Reform article with the creation of the CA, and begin the CA article there, rather than having both articles bleed into one another. I doubt anyone would object if you did this. [[User:Kevintoronto|Kevintoronto]] 19:47, 13 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Why name this centre-right party Reform?

On the question of 'democrat' vs. 'right-wing', 'democrat' is meaningless in this context. With the exception of the Communist and Marxist-Leninist parties, all of the parties are in favour of democracy. Even then, those two parties would argue that ''they'', not the other parties, are the true democratic parties. On the other hand, I cna't imagine anyone, including reformers, disagreeing with the term 'right-wing'. As an activist in the PC Party in the 1980s, I recall seeing t-shirts, buttons and bumper stickers being sold at party conventions referring to ourselves as being right-wing. This were especially popular amongst those members of the party who left to join Reform. thouhgt the change to 'right wing-populist' was an excellent change. As far as the Liberals being left-wing, I think that they would be commonly understood to be centrist, and the NDP to be left-wing. [[User:Kevintoronto|Kevintoronto]] 21:20, 16 Jul 2004 (UTC)

:I sense an edit war brewing. I would agree that democrat-populist means nothing, but I'm not sure if calling it "right-wing" is the best description either. And how populist are they really? I don't think most Canadians would agree with most of their policies. [[User:Earl Andrew|Earl Andrew]] 21:56, 20 Jul 2004 (UTC)

When I first learnt the word conservative it was that of somebody who opposes great change in society and yet reform sounds like the opposite to that.

::I agree -- I don't want to see an edit war. But, on the other hand, the mystery person who keeps putting "democrat" in doesn't offer any real defence. Here are some other parties whose supporters view their parties as being "democratic": the Liberal Party, the PC party, the NDP, Libertarians, Freedom Party, Christian Heritage, Bloc Quebecois, Marijuana, etc. For crying out loud, even the Communists would argue that they are the only true democratic party. The M-Lers would probably say the same. Here are some other uses of the word "democratic": the Democratic Republic of Korea (which is the northern bit), the German Democratic Republic (the former eastern bit), the Democratic Republic of Congo (that's the large chunk of central Africa over-run by thieves and thugs). The word "democrat" does not distinguish the Reform Party from any other party on the scene, so what does it add? Should someone go into each of the articles for the other parties and add the word "democrat"?

Surely the purpose of reform is to make a great change.[[Special:Contributions/49.3.72.79|49.3.72.79]] ([[User talk:49.3.72.79|talk]]) 19:10, 21 June 2021 (UTC)

::Because I don't want to an edit war, I don't want to make this edit. But I think that someone should go in and change the part of the mystery person's recent edits that are so very clearly the POV of a partisan. (And also, the run-on sentences that stop making sense half-way through could use some editing.) My vote would also be to get rid of the meaningless (in this context) descriptor "democrat'. Anyone else? [[User:Kevintoronto|Kevintoronto]] 13:00, 21 Jul 2004 (UTC)

:That was the name of the party. They can choose whatever name they wish. [[User:GoodDay|GoodDay]] ([[User talk:GoodDay|talk]]) 02:17, 28 September 2021 (UTC)

That is not helpful. If you did not know the reason either say you did not know or don't respond at all. [[Special:Contributions/49.3.72.79|49.3.72.79]] ([[User talk:49.3.72.79|talk]]) 17:59, 1 October 2021 (UTC)

:Their idea was to reform society from what they understood as a recently established "left-wing bias", so, to return to old, conservative ways. And the notion of this party was not only about conservatism, but also about [[Western Canada]]. <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/37.144.245.25|37.144.245.25]] ([[User talk:37.144.245.25#top|talk]]) 10:45, 4 September 2022 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

== political position ==

Lets get some sources to talk about [[WP:SCHOLARSHIP]]...pls avoid [[WP:NEWSORG|media junk]].--<span style="font-weight:bold;color:darkblue">[[User:Moxy|Moxy]]</span>-[[File:Maple Leaf (Pantone).svg|15px|link=User talk:Moxy]] 20:53, 28 September 2021 (UTC)

Right-wing populist Or center-right on the Canadian scale ?

*{{Cite web|url=https://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.ca/en/article/reform-party-of-canada|title=Reform Party of Canada &#124; The Canadian Encyclopedia}} (currently in article)

*{{Cite web|url=https://thecanadaguide.com/government/political-parties/|title=Political Parties}} J.J. McCullough - columnist (currently in article)

What Moxy found

*{{cite journal |last1=Soutar |first1=Kristina |title=The Rise of the Reform Party: the Changing Face of Canada |journal=The Ohio State University |date=1994 |url=https://origins.osu.edu/sites/origins.osu.edu/files/origins-archive/Volume2Issue1Article4.pdf}}

*Finkel, Alvin. Review of Of Passionate Intensity: [https://muse.jhu.edu/article/574837/pdf Right-Wing Populism and the Reform Party of Canada,] by Trevor Harrison. The Canadian Historical Review, vol. 77 no. 3, 1996, p. 454-456. Project MUSE muse.jhu.edu/article/574837.

*Friesen, K. R. (2021). "[http://www.inquiriesjournal.com/a?id=1860 Reimagining Populism to Reveal Canada's Right-Wing Populist Zeitgeist]." Inquiries Journal, 13(01).

:(full disclosure: Moxy pinged me on my talk page) From a very quick JSTOR search for ["Reform party" AND Canada]:

:*{{cite journal |last1=Archer |first1=Keith |last2=Ellis |first2=Faron |title=Opinion Structure of Party Activists: The Reform Party of Canada |journal=Canadian Journal of Political Science / Revue canadienne de science politique |date=1994 |volume=27 |issue=2 |pages=277–308 |url=https://www.jstor.org/stable/3229397 |issn=0008-4239}}

:*{{cite journal |last1=Srebrnik |first1=Henry F. |title=Is the Past Prologue?: The Old-New Discourse of the Reform Party of Canada |journal=International Social Science Review |date=1997 |volume=72 |issue=1/2 |pages=5–13 |url=https://www.jstor.org/stable/41882224 |issn=0278-2308}}

:*{{cite journal |last1=Lusztig |first1=Michael |last2=Wilson |first2=J. Matthew |title=A New Right? Moral Issues and Partisan Change in Canada |journal=Social Science Quarterly |date=2005 |volume=86 |issue=1 |pages=109–128 |url=https://www.jstor.org/stable/42956052 |issn=0038-4941}}

:*{{cite journal |last1=Laycock |first1=David |title=Reforming Canadian Democracy? Institutions and Ideology in the Reform Party Project |journal=Canadian Journal of Political Science / Revue canadienne de science politique |date=1994 |volume=27 |issue=2 |pages=213–247 |url=https://www.jstor.org/stable/3229395 |issn=0008-4239}}

:I have not taken the time to look at the content of these yet, but I have full text access to all if need be. [[User:RandomCanadian|RandomCanadian]] ([[User talk:RandomCanadian|talk]] / [[Special:Contributions/RandomCanadian|contribs]]) 21:54, 28 September 2021 (UTC)

:Three more book chapters:

:*{{cite book |last1=FARNEY |first1=JAMES |title=Social Conservatives and Party Politics in Canada and the United States |date=2012 |publisher=University of Toronto Press |isbn=978-1-4426-1260-0 |pages=98-113 |url=https://www.jstor.org/stable/10.3138/9781442699618.10 |chapter=6 Social Conservatives and the Reform Party of Canada}}

:*{{cite book |last1=Tolley |first1=Erin |title=The Blueprint: Conservative Parties and their Impact on Canadian Politics |date=2017 |publisher=University of Toronto Press |isbn=978-1-4875-2168-4 |pages=101-128 |url=http://www.jstor.org/stable/10.3138/j.ctv1n358pg.7 |chapter=5 Political Players or Partisan Pawns?: Immigrants, Minorities, and Conservatives in Canada}}

:*{{cite book |last1=MALLOY |first1=JONATHAN |title=Conservatism in Canada |date=2013 |publisher=University of Toronto Press |isbn=978-1-4426-1456-7 |pages=184-206 |url=http://www.jstor.org/stable/10.3138/j.ctt5hjvkc.15 |chapter=10 The Relationship between the Conservative Party of Canada and Evangelicals and Social Conservatives}}

:[[User:RandomCanadian|RandomCanadian]] ([[User talk:RandomCanadian|talk]] / [[Special:Contributions/RandomCanadian|contribs]]) 22:01, 28 September 2021 (UTC)

Reform is centre-right to right-wing as per global standards and right-wing as per the Canadian political spectrum. It's better to put right-wing in the infobox rather than centre-right to right-wing because it matches Canada's political spectrum. [[User:Ak-eater06|'''<span style="color:#A2CEC2">Ak-eater06</span>''']] ([[User talk:Ak-eater06#top|talk]]) 22:36, 28 September 2021 (UTC)

:Agree [https://globalnews.ca/video/6336235/is-the-left-right-political-spectrum-outdated Is the Left/Right political spectrum outdated?].<span style="font-weight:bold;color:darkblue">[[User:Moxy|Moxy]]</span>-[[File:Maple Leaf (Pantone).svg|15px|link=User talk:Moxy]] 22:55, 28 September 2021 (UTC)

:I know they started out as protest party on behalf of Western Canada, who felt ignored by the federal government. [[User:GoodDay|GoodDay]] ([[User talk:GoodDay|talk]]) 23:14, 28 September 2021 (UTC)

== The Reform Party of Canada changed its name to the Canadian Reform Conservative Alliance ==

The current version of this article ([https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Reform_Party_of_Canada&oldid=1056881857]) states in the infobox that the Reform Party was dissolved in March 25, 2000, but that is incorrect (at least from the perspective of Elections Canada). The Chief Electoral Officer approved the Reform Party's application to change its name to Canadian Reform Conservative Alliance (short name Canadian Alliance) on April 2, 2000, retroactive to March 27, 2000. See refs at [[Talk:Canadian Alliance#The Canadian Alliance was the new name of the Reform Party]]. [[User:Mathew5000|Mathew5000]] ([[User talk:Mathew5000|talk]]) 01:55, 27 November 2021 (UTC)

: I corrected the article in several places [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Reform_Party_of_Canada&type=revision&diff=1059693648&oldid=1058495556&diffmode=source] to clarify that Canadian Alliance was not a newly created political party, but the new name of the Reform Party. [[User:Mathew5000|Mathew5000]] ([[User talk:Mathew5000|talk]]) 00:29, 11 December 2021 (UTC)

:: Sorry Matthew, but Reform was rebranded (not renamed) into the Canadian Alliance. It was suceeded and rebranded as a pan-Canadian party rather than a Western regionalist party. Also, if you wish to make such important edits, please discuss them on [[Wikipedia talk:Canadian Wikipedians' notice board]], or you may be warned. [[User:Ak-eater06|'''<span style="color:#A2CEC2">Ak-eater06</span>''']] ([[User talk:Ak-eater06#top|talk]]) 01:43, 11 December 2021 (UTC)

::: Yes, this was discussed at WT:CANADA and on this page before I made the edit. It was agreed that from the point of view of Elections Canada, the Canadian Alliance was not a new party but the new name of the Reform Party [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:Canadian_Wikipedians%27_notice_board&type=revision&diff=1057273071&oldid=1057194982&diffmode=source]. This was adequately sourced in the edit I made [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Reform_Party_of_Canada&diff=1059693648&oldid=1058495556&diffmode=source] which you reverted [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Reform_Party_of_Canada&diff=next&oldid=1059699693&diffmode=source] and I reinstated [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Reform_Party_of_Canada&type=revision&diff=1059820586&oldid=1059803594&diffmode=source]. I am not aware of any reliable sources stating that the Reform Party was dissolved or disbanded. Instead of reverting the sources I put in this article relating to the renaming of the party in 2000, you may wish to discuss the matter, either in this thread or in the thread at WT:CANADA. [[User:Mathew5000|Mathew5000]] ([[User talk:Mathew5000|talk]]) 20:55, 11 December 2021 (UTC)

::[[User:GoodDay]] please help this poor guy and assure that Reform was meant to be "rebranded" and not renamed. [[User:Ak-eater06|'''<span style="color:#A2CEC2">Ak-eater06</span>''']] ([[User talk:Ak-eater06#top|talk]]) 20:54, 11 December 2021 (UTC)

:::There's very little I can do, if Elections Canada considers them to be the same political party. I know us folks in eastern Canada, didn't fall for the 'new brand'. Anyways, either of you may have to open an RFC on this matter. [[User:GoodDay|GoodDay]] ([[User talk:GoodDay|talk]]) 21:01, 11 December 2021 (UTC)

::[[User:Mathew5000]] you need to get a consensus on [[Wikipedia talk:Canadian Wikipedians' notice board]] for such an important edit. It's important to note that no one brought this up before, meaning that it seems like you're the only one who believes that Alliance and Reform are the same party. [[User:Ak-eater06|'''<span style="color:#A2CEC2">Ak-eater06</span>''']] ([[User talk:Ak-eater06#top|talk]]) 21:02, 11 December 2021 (UTC)

::: @Ak-eater06, It's not accurate that "no one brought this up before". I brought it up on November 26 at WT:CANADA, and also raised the matter on this talk page and [[Talk:Canadian Alliance]]. It was agreed at WT:CANADA that I am correct on this matter. You may have overlooked the prior discussion, but that's no excuse for your uncivil comments toward me above, for which you have not yet apologized.

:::In your comments above, you have said three times that the Reform Party was "rebranded". But in your edits to the article ([https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Reform_Party_of_Canada&type=revision&diff=1059699806&oldid=1059695941&diffmode=source][https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Reform_Party_of_Canada&type=revision&diff=1059820808&oldid=1059820586&diffmode=source]) you have not used the word "rebranded" at all. Instead, you reverted the article to include words like "dissolution" and "disbanding" which are not a correct description of what happened to the Reform Party in 2000. Are there any reliable sources that use any of those words ("rebranding", "dissolution", "disbanding") in relation to the Reform Party in 2000?

:::Even without a source specifically using the word "rebranding", it's probably fair for us to use that term in this article. The sources (which I put in the article and you removed) clearly state that the Reform Party changed its name and its logo. In my view, subject to further discussion, the name and logo change amount to a rebranding. But I don't understand your insistence that the party was "rebranded and not renamed". [[User:Mathew5000|Mathew5000]] ([[User talk:Mathew5000|talk]]) 22:20, 11 December 2021 (UTC)

:::Elections Canada would seem to be the deciding factor. PS- I've yet to see any attempts to ''merge'' the two articles, btw. [[User:GoodDay|GoodDay]] ([[User talk:GoodDay|talk]]) 04:18, 12 December 2021 (UTC)

::::No. Please don't merge. Please. [[User:Ak-eater06|'''<span style="color:#A2CEC2">Ak-eater06</span>''']] ([[User talk:Ak-eater06#top|talk]]) 05:21, 12 December 2021 (UTC)

== Spoiler ==

It should be mentioned that this party acted a a [[spoiler candidate]] against the more moderate PCP in the reality of the [[first-past-the-post]] system. <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/37.144.245.25|37.144.245.25]] ([[User talk:37.144.245.25#top|talk]]) 10:29, 4 September 2022 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->