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Hi,
Not having managed to find this page on my own, I started a discussion at [[Wikipedia:Village_pump_(proposals)#Adding_dates_to_assessment_templates]] - please feel free to participate there or move the discussion here, whichever suits best.[[User:Dramatic|dramatic]] ([[User talk:Dramatic|talk]]) 09:13, 15 May 2010 (UTC)
{{WikiProject New Zealand/sandbox|class=C|category=no<!--|date=May 2010-->}}
:Interesting idea. I've posted an example of what I think you may be asking for. Is this correct? (This is on [[Template:WikiProject New Zealand/sandbox]], but is not yet in a state to be deployed.)
:*I see you have been given other suggestions and pointers on the village pump discussion. Perhaps you could try these and let us know if you still feel a template solution is warranted.
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:*At this stage we would probably look at adding this to the project banner you are working with. It is only if many projects were interested that we would start thinking about adding it to the meta-template.
:— Martin <small>([[User:MSGJ|MSGJ]] · [[User talk:MSGJ|talk]])</small> 19:50, 17 May 2010 (UTC)
{{WikiProject New Zealand/sandbox|class=C|category=no<!--|assess date=May 2010-->}}
::Thanks for putting some thought into this martin. Yes, it is pretty much what I was thinking of. I think that quality is the significant one here, as article quality changes significantly over time, whereas the importance of an article to a project seldom changes. While it would be great to have it on WPNZ, since I've been visiting unassessed articles, it is all the other projects I'm seeing the no-longer-appropriate ratings on (With WPBIO probably being the most common instance). I'll go and look at the other responses now. [[User:Dramatic|dramatic]] ([[User talk:Dramatic|talk]]) 02:10, 18 May 2010 (UTC)
== What do I need to do to get a task force quality template running? ==
Several WikiProjects have taskforces. I would like to add such taskforces to [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Sociology]] ([[Template:WikiProject Sociology]]), starting with the social movements task force, but I cannot find a guide on how to do so, and the code in existing templates with that functionality is too complex for me ([[Template:WPMILHIST]] or [[Template:AfricaProject]]). I'd appreciate your help! --<sub><span style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;">[[User:Piotrus|Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus]]|[[User_talk:Piotrus|<
:See [[Template:WPBannerMeta#Task forces]] –[[user:xeno|<
::Thanks. How can I get a task force assessment statitics to display (like [[Wikipedia:WikiProject_Military_history/Nordic_military_history_task_force#Tagging_and_assessment|here]])? The project list is [[Wikipedia:Version 1.0 Editorial Team/Sociology articles by quality statistics|here]]. Also - do I need to create the categories listed at [[Template:WikiProject Sociology]]? I don't think I want to reassess the articles for the taskforce, I just want them to have a category and to enable the task force stat list as mentioned above (like MILHIST does). --<sub><span style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;">[[User:Piotrus|Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus]]|[[User_talk:Piotrus|<
:::Just guessing here, but you probably need to create and fill the requisite categories, the toplevel quality (Social movements articles by quality) and importance categories probably need [[:Category:Wikipedia 1.0 assessments]] and then add {{tlx|Wikipedia:Version 1.0 Editorial Team/Social movement articles by quality statistics}} somewhere. (You could also [[WP:CWW|copy]] what milhist has done if you want it to be a malleable template that accepts the parameters for the different task forces) –[[user:xeno|<
::::I've created the top level category. I am not sure how to activate the other template to generate those nice quality stats... hopefully somebody can offer suggestions on that. --<sub><span style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;">[[User:Piotrus|Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus]]|[[User_talk:Piotrus|<
:::::I believe you need to wait for the bot to run ... once every 24 hours I guess? You also need to add TF_1_QUALITY=yes , I think... And create those cats, and so on. Best place to ask for more help on this would be [[Template talk:WPBannerMeta]], where the WPBM vets hang out... –[[user:xeno|<
::::::I asked there - thanks. I added the [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template%3AWikiProject_Sociology&action=historysubmit&diff=365531212&oldid=365518401 TF_1_QUALITY=yes] - don't recalling seeing it in the previous guide. So far, no visible changes, but there may be delayed due to the bot you mention or a need for a simple cache purge. I'll check on this tomorrow :) Thanks, --<sub><span style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;">[[User:Piotrus|Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus]]|[[User_talk:Piotrus|<
:::::::It may have something to do with the custom class mask in use. I'm sure the WPBM vets can help, in any case. –[[user:xeno|<
:''Moved from [[WP:VPT]]''
You need to set the ASSESSMENT_CAT parameter, which I have now done. I've also added prompts to the [[Template:WikiProject Sociology/class|custom class mask]] for all the categories which need creating. — Martin <small>([[User:MSGJ|MSGJ]] · [[User talk:MSGJ|talk]])</small> 05:38, 3 June 2010 (UTC)
:Thanks - now, how can I get a task force assessment statitics to display (like [[Wikipedia:WikiProject_Military_history/Nordic_military_history_task_force#Tagging_and_assessment|here]])? The project list is [[Wikipedia:Version 1.0 Editorial Team/Sociology articles by quality statistics|here]]? [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:WikiProject_Sociology/Social_movements_task_force&diff=365520344&oldid=365470165 This] is not working for me. --<sub><span style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;">[[User:Piotrus|Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus]]|[[User_talk:Piotrus|<
::You haven't yet created the categories required - these are shown on [[Template:WikiProject Sociology/class]]. — Martin <small>([[User:MSGJ|MSGJ]] · [[User talk:MSGJ|talk]])</small> 07:12, 8 June 2010 (UTC)
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== Sixteen task forces? ==
I am drafting in [[User:Strdst grl/ubx/sandbox|my sandbox]] to try and add [[WP:ROALD|the Roald Dahl task force]] to [[WP:NOVELS|WikiProject Novels]]. However, this project already has fifteen task forces. Is there a way to add any more? [[User:Strdst_grl|<span style="font-family:UnivrstyRoman BT,Garamond,serif;color:DodgerBlue">strdst_grl</span>]] <small>[[User talk:Strdst_grl|<span style="font-family:Kaufmann,Monotype Corsiva;color:DeepSkyBlue">(call me Stardust)
:You will need to add another taskforce hook, which will allow another 10. (Have a look at how [[Template:ChristianityWikiProject]] does it.) — Martin <small>([[User:MSGJ|MSGJ]] · [[User talk:MSGJ|talk]])</small> 10:22, 7 June 2010 (UTC)
== [[:Template:WikiProject Amiga]] ==
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I propose to add a '''{{{PROJECT NAME}}}''' parameter, which would default to '''WikiProject {{{PROJECT}}}'''. Thoughts? — Martin <small>([[User:MSGJ|MSGJ]] · [[User talk:MSGJ|talk]])</small> 13:12, 21 June 2010 (UTC)
:Code is in the sandbox now. Any objections? — Martin <small>([[User:MSGJ|MSGJ]] · [[User talk:MSGJ|talk]])</small> 09:49, 23 June 2010 (UTC)
{{WPBS|{{
::No objections. Code looks fine. -- [[User:WOSlinker|WOSlinker]] ([[User talk:WOSlinker|talk]]) 09:57, 23 June 2010 (UTC)
::TL;DR – looks good. There was some related discussion at [[WT:GLAM/BM#%7B%7BBM-related%7D%7D upgraded]] WRT possible plans for future project status but nothing that was in conflict with the meta template usage. [[User:Fæ|Fæ]] ([[User talk:Fæ|talk]]) 10:26, 23 June 2010 (UTC)
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:That is (just guessing) most likely caused by the images int he later category still calling it "images" and only showing File superficially on the front-end, compared to former category actually using "file", Although that probably should get fixed, it would caused a lot of empty categories I would be guessing, and a far bit of load changing all those categories around. [[User:Peachey88|Peachey88]] <sup>([[User_Talk:Peachey88|T]]<span style="font-weight:bold;"> ·</span>  [[Special:Contributions/Peachey88|C]])</sup> 01:59, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
:See [[WP:RIF]]/[[WT:RIF]]. Those are the last few stragglers... –[[user:xeno on an iPhone|<
:Yes, you're right. Since July the class mask is defaulting to File-class. I regard this sluggish movement of pages between categories as a bug. The majority moved over fairly quickly, but I don't think the job queue can be blamed for the others taking so long. — Martin <small>([[User:MSGJ|MSGJ]] · [[User talk:MSGJ|talk]])</small> 19:53, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
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I presume there's a master template for the plethora of minor wikiproject categorization templates (many unfilled, perhaps not helped by this tediousness). Wouldn't some template wiz feel great about disposing of unnecessary case (and order) sensitivities to help move this along a bit smoother? <span style="font-family: 'Brush script MT', cursive;font-size:1.4em;vertical-align:middle;"> [[User:Trev M|Trev M ]] [[User_talk:Trev_M|~ ]]</span> 12:38, 3 September 2010 (UTC)
:Suggest this at [[Template talk:WPBannerMeta]]. –[[user:xeno|<
::Always good to get a bit nearer to the business end of things – thanks Xeno.
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::the second {{para|class}} overrides the first, so the talk page goes in the "unassessed tulips articles" category.
::Most, if not all, project banners are completely tolerant about the capitalisation of parameter ''values''; so {{para|class|c}} is treated as if it were {{para|class|C}}; but I don't know of any that would allow {{para|Class|C}}. There seems to be a convention that parameter names are almost always entirely lowercase, with the capitalised form only used for proper names: for example, {{tlx|WikiProject Trains}} has {{para|Scotland}}, but not {{para|scotland}}. --[[User:Redrose64|<span style="color:#d30000; background:#ffeeee">Red</span>rose64]] ([[User talk:Redrose64|talk]]) 21:02, 3 September 2010 (UTC)
:::I don't think this is an issue; template parameters are generally assumed to be lower-case. Changing them to recognize upper-case and lower-case (i.e., {{code|1=class=}} versus {{code|1=Class=}}) has no purpose, in my opinion. <
:::The parameter is lower case but the value is not. It's correct to have class=C. I also don't think it's an issue but perhaps some WikiProjects have an issue like the above Scotland= example WikiProject Trains. Regards, [[User:SunCreator|SunCreator]] <sup>([[User talk:SunCreator|talk]])</sup> 00:26, 4 September 2010 (UTC)
::::It is only an issue at WP banner templates that use the upper case for parameters, and don't remember to double-code it to take both uc and lc characters. Maybe this could be pointed out in the TF setup instructions, somewhere? --[[User:Funandtrvl|Funandtrvl]] ([[User talk:Funandtrvl|talk]]) 20:19, 7 September 2010 (UTC)
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::::And wouldn't multiples of 20 just be easier for them as well? I looked at how some projects are coding this, and to say it's complex doesn't begin to cover it. And from what I can tell (though I'll admit to not being an expert at template coding), not everyone is coding them using your hooks method. So perhaps going to 20 might help with that as well. (And I would guess that anything we do to reduce the well-meaning usage of parser functions would be a plus too?)
::::So anyway, you've said that 10 was arbitrary, so if I or someone else were to boldly change it to 20, that wouldn't break anything. Am I understanding correctly? - [[User:Jc37|jc37]] 17:43, 5 October 2010 (UTC)
:::::If it gets upped to twenty, then twenty sets of parameters are needed which bloats the meta template - as opposed to simply tacking on a next set of ten via a hook. Perhaps a better solution would be to provide a "[[for dummies]]" instruction manual on how to properly use hooks? –[[user:xeno|<
== Formatting problems with {{tl|WikiProject Multi-sport events}} ==
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== Taskforce portal ==
{{tl|WikiProject Washington/sandbox}} - I can not get the Seattle Taskforce to show the [[Portal:Seattle|Seattle portal]] link. Help? --<span style="background:#DD7500; padding:2px">'''[[User:Admrboltz|<
:The portal for taskforces only works on the hooked version. I've updated the sandbox to use the hook. -- [[User:WOSlinker|WOSlinker]] ([[User talk:WOSlinker|talk]]) 21:38, 12 February 2011 (UTC)
::Thanks. I figured I was missing something. --<span style="background:#DD7500; padding:2px">'''[[User:Admrboltz|<
== To-do list ==
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I know that {{para|listas}} calls {{tl|DEFAULTSORT}} and that in the absence of an explicit sort value a page will be sorted by the PAGENAME. Why, on the fourth page of [[:Category:Biography articles without listas parameter]], does [[Talk:Aaron Sangala]] follow [[Talk:Azzo Alidosi]]? [[User:JimCubb|JimCubb]] ([[User talk:JimCubb|talk]]) 19:37, 10 March 2011 (UTC)
:See [[Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)#categorically random categories]]. Looks like updateCollation is still running on enwiki.[http://wikitech.wikimedia.org/view/Server_admin_log] ---'''''— [[User:Gadget850|<span style="color:gray">Gadget850 (Ed)</span>]]<span style="color:darkblue"> </span>'''''
== Hidden TOC ==
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== How can I get a report of a specific project articles with incomplete B-class checklists? ==
Also asked [[Wikipedia:Village_pump_(technical)#How_can_I_get_a_report_of_a_specific_project_articles_with_incomplete_B-class_checklists.3F|there]], after a while I was directed here... --<sub><span style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;">[[User:Piotrus|Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus]]|[[User_talk:Piotrus|<
:I don't know if there's anything on the toolserver that'll help you with this, but as an alternative solution one could create a maintenance cat and add code to {{tl|WikiProject Poland}} which would bucket all pages with the b1–b6 parameters set to "no" (or missing altogether, depending on what you mean by "incomplete") into it. It's the same principle used to populate [[:Category:Russian inhabited locality articles requiring maintenance|this category]]. Hope this helps,—[[User:Ezhiki|Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky)]] • ([[User talk:Ezhiki|yo?]]); April 14, 2011; 16:44 (UTC)
::Could somebody who knows wikicode better than I implement it for WikiProject Poland? For our use we would like the list of articles which are class B or C and do not have the checklist at all, or it is not filled. --<sub><span style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;">[[User:Piotrus|Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus]]|[[User_talk:Piotrus|<
:::Actually, come to think of it, it's not that difficult to implement. I've added the code to {{tld|WikiProject Poland}}, and [[:Category:WikiProject Poland articles with an incomplete B-Class checklist]] should start to populate soon (depending on the server lag). I left the cat red on purpose in case you want to rename it (if so, just change the cat name in the WP:POLAND's assessment banner code. The cat will include all C-Class articles, and all B-Class articles for which either b1, b2, b3, b4, b5, or b6 parameter are left unfilled. Will this work for you?—[[User:Ezhiki|Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky)]] • ([[User talk:Ezhiki|yo?]]); April 14, 2011; 19:56 (UTC)
::::See [[Template_talk:WPBannerMeta/hooks#Checklist_tracking_categories]]. -- [[User:WOSlinker|WOSlinker]] ([[User talk:WOSlinker|talk]]) 20:28, 15 April 2011 (UTC)
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== One more item to get from the template ==
Thanks to those who helped implement the incomplete B-class category for WP:POLAND. We have one more question: can we get a list of articles that are assessed as stub but do not have a stub-template in the main body? --<sub><span style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;">[[User:Piotrus|Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus]]|[[User_talk:Piotrus|<
:Sorry there is no way that a template can automatically detect whether a stub template is on a page. For that you would need to use [[wp:toolserver|toolserver]] or something similar. Or you could perhaps request a report at [[Wikipedia talk:Database reports]]. — Martin <small>([[User:MSGJ|MSGJ]] · [[User talk:MSGJ|talk]])</small> 16:27, 19 April 2011 (UTC)
== Proposal: IMAGE_NEEDED parameter ==
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=== Class issue ===
[[:Template:WikiProject_Turtles/class]] is empty and the template uses the extended class set. However, if you put |class=fm into the banner it comes up as NA class. Is there anything that I need to do to fix this? Is there any way to include this as a standard class so we don't need to add fm to the custom class list project by project? cheers --[[User:Guerillero|Guerillero]] | [[User_talk:Guerillero|<
:Currently, the only way to use FM-class is to set up a custom class mask at the /class subpage. There was a suggestion above that this new class be included in the "extended scale" set but this has not been done yet. The problems with retrospectively adding a class to a set are:
:*Suddenly there are a huge number of categories which need creating.
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:*You are imposing a class on many projects that may not necessarily want it.
:— Martin <small>([[User:MSGJ|MSGJ]] · [[User talk:MSGJ|talk]])</small> 13:57, 8 June 2011 (UTC)
::Where would it be best to get a consensus to add this to the extended list of classes --[[User:Guerillero|Guerillero]] | [[User_talk:Guerillero|<
:::We can still add it to the turtles project without adding it to the extended classes if you are interested in doing that. --[[User:Kumioko|Kumioko]] ([[User talk:Kumioko|talk]]) 20:00, 8 June 2011 (UTC)
::::Yes please. I would but I don't know all the needed formatting. --[[User:Guerillero|Guerillero]] | [[User_talk:Guerillero|<
* I think there should be a step-by-step guide somewhere that tells users how to use FM-Class, even if their banner does not use a custom class mask, to avoid a string of similar question popping up in the future. [[User:Titoxd|Tito<span style="color:#008000;">xd</span>]]<sup>([[User talk:Titoxd|?!?]] - [[WP:FAC|cool stuff]])</sup> 23:10, 8 June 2011 (UTC)
:Your right of course. I fixed the WPTurtles one so that should be working now. --[[User:Kumioko|Kumioko]] ([[User talk:Kumioko|talk]]) 23:52, 8 June 2011 (UTC)
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* This banner template includes a link to Portal:Internet. The name of the accompanying image is held here.
* The following categories are required for the banner to work correctly. Please either create these categories or adjust the banner so that they are not required. [[:Category:Semantic Web articles]]
<span style="border:2px solid red;padding:1px;background:navy">[[User:Senator2029|<
:The first two are informative, not errors; no action is needed.
:The third merely means that one of the categories required by the project banner hasn't been created. This is the category declared by the {{para|TF_1_ASSESSMENT_CAT|Semantic Web articles}} and {{para|TF_1_MAIN_CAT|Semantic Web articles}} parameters to {{tlx|WPBannerMeta}} within [[Template:WikiProject Internet]]. --[[User:Redrose64|<span style="color:#d30000; background:#ffeeee; text-decoration:inherit">Red</span>rose64]] ([[User talk:Redrose64|talk]]) 19:15, 19 October 2011 (UTC)
{{Thank you}}
<span style="border:2px solid red;padding:1px;background:navy">[[User:Senator2029|<
== Template:WikiProject Food and drink/sandbox ==
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== Issue I've encountered ==
<s>Hi, I'm having some trouble with this template at [[Template:WikiProject A Song of Ice and Fire]]. If it's something really simple I overlooked sorry, any help is really appreciated. Thanks, [[User:Magister Scienta|<
:Sorry, never mind. I found the issue (I accidentally included a period). [[User:Magister Scienta|<
== Implementing a task force ==
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It would be useful to have a link to the template page on every banner template, in the same way as {{tl|infobox}} (with its "View", "Talk", and "Edit" links, although I think only a "View" is necessary). This is useful in order to see what parameters it accepts, such as task force assignments, without having to edit the page, see its name, and looking it up.
Thank you! [[User:InverseHypercube|<
:The feature is already there but hidden by default. See [[Template talk:WPBannerMeta/Archive 2#Editlinks]]. -- [[User:WOSlinker|WOSlinker]] ([[User talk:WOSlinker|talk]]) 07:38, 6 April 2012 (UTC)
::Great, thank you! Maybe this should be mentioned in the documentation? [[User:InverseHypercube|<
== WikiProject Carrom template ==
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What I would like to do though is somehow, if possible, dynamically change the main part of the temaplate to display Arizona as the Main text with United States where Arizona is currently embedded, but only if something other than WPUS is there. The only way I could think of doing this was to create some kind of template switch that would look at something like
{{WikiProject United States/Arizona|US=Yes|category=no}} if the AZ parameter =yes and if so then it would display that instead of the WPUS/AZ example above. This would allow AZ to have top billing of WPUS but still display them both. I thought I could do it by using the BANNER NAME parameter like in Template WikiProject Computing but I couldn't make it work. [[User:Kumioko|Kumioko]] ([[User talk:Kumioko|talk]]) 21:23, 14 May 2012 (UTC)
== Questions ==
I am currently working on a major overhaul of the Christianity WikiProject Banner at [[User:John Carter/Christianity banner]]. Beyond the existing problems with the banner's sometimes unusual phrasing, two other questions come to mind:
*1) How would I implement FM class in the banner
*2) Is there any extant way in the template to indicate, like [[Template:WikiProject India]] does, when an article was last assessed? [[User:John Carter|John Carter]] ([[User talk:John Carter|talk]]) 20:41, 14 May 2012 (UTC)
:*1) set QUALITY_SCALE = subpage and then create a /class subpage with the following code:
<pre>
{{class mask<noinclude>/templatepage</noinclude>|{{{class|}}}
|topic=Christianity
|FQS=yes
|book=yes
|redirect=yes
|fm=yes
}}
</pre>
:*2) Not at present. A standardised version could be made into a [[Template:WPBannerMeta/hooks|hook template]]. -- [[User:WOSlinker|WOSlinker]] ([[User talk:WOSlinker|talk]]) 20:58, 14 May 2012 (UTC)
== Problem with Redirect not working with banners ==
There is a rather lengthy discussion brewing on my talk page [[User talk:Kumioko|here]] about errors caused by adding WikiProject banners on article talk pages with redirects. Obviously adding the banner above the redirect breaks the redirect so I had been adding the banner below that to ensure the article was tagged for the project but now have been told that this breaks the redirect too. Currently there are about 26300 redirect tagged for WikiProject United States/one of the supported projects and of these about 1350 are showing up on [http://toolserver.org/~dispenser/cgi-bin/rdcheck.py?page=Template:WikiProject_United_States the toolserver] as a broken link. For most of these I can probably just remove the #REDIRECT from the talk page, leave the banner and move on with my day but for some they are both needed.
So, is there a technical way to allow a page to contain #Redirect as well as a WikiProject Banner? My first thought is to create a template similar to [[template:Category redirect]] so that they can both function in the cases where its necessary to redirect the talk page and have a banner (which obviously isn't always needed) but I'm not sure if this the best way or the only way. Any help would be greatly appreciated. [[User:Kumioko|Kumioko]] ([[User talk:Kumioko|talk]]) 17:45, 8 June 2012 (UTC)
:You might want to consider using {{tl|Soft redirect}} which is not a proper redirect but would at least provide a link to the other talk page. -- [[User:WOSlinker|WOSlinker]] ([[User talk:WOSlinker|talk]]) 19:51, 8 June 2012 (UTC)
::Thank you would that allow the redirect to function along with the banner and can I use that in all namespaces or just certain ones? [[User:Kumioko|Kumioko]] ([[User talk:Kumioko|talk]]) 20:09, 8 June 2012 (UTC)
:::I think so, the code for the soft redirect tmp shows "talkspace". --[[User:Funandtrvl|Funandtrvl]] ([[User talk:Funandtrvl|talk]]) 20:19, 8 June 2012 (UTC)
::::It works in most namespaces but shouldn't be used for category pages. See [[Wikipedia:Soft redirect]]. --[[User:Redrose64|<span style="color:#a80000; background:#ffeeee; text-decoration:inherit">Red</span>rose64]] ([[User talk:Redrose64|talk]]) 21:11, 8 June 2012 (UTC)
:::::Great thank you. [[User:Kumioko|Kumioko]] ([[User talk:Kumioko|talk]]) 22:38, 8 June 2012 (UTC)
'''Oppose''' this breaks the functionality of the redirect, requiring an extra click; that's much more important than the WikiProject tag. --'''[[User:Rschen7754|Rs]][[User talk:Rschen7754|chen]][[Special:Contributions/Rschen7754|7754]]''' 08:34, 10 June 2012 (UTC)
:Its not a perfect solution but if I can't do it this way I will, in most cases, have to remove the #Redirect from the talk page when tagging it anyway in order for the main page to be tracked. Otherwise the page will have to be tagged with the categories directly rather than the template and that is counter productive and confusing. There needs to be a way to tag these pages with the template. I don't know how to do it personally but I am 100% sure that there is a technical solution to this problem. [[User:Kumioko|Kumioko]] ([[User talk:Kumioko|talk]]) 13:51, 10 June 2012 (UTC)
::Certainly not. What is more important, having a functioning redirect, or having a WikiProject tag? (By the way, don't use AWB to do this, as it is clearly controversial). --'''[[User:Rschen7754|Rs]][[User talk:Rschen7754|chen]][[Special:Contributions/Rschen7754|7754]]''' 22:59, 10 June 2012 (UTC)
:::Well I think there both important and I think that fixing the problem is important too particularly if its a known issue and its been going on for a while which its seems to have been. What does seem to irritate me is that this is turning into a USRoads against United States discussion and it shouldn't be. There's no need for threats and there's no room on Wikipedia for article ownership. The bottom line is there is a problem with the template that is causing redirects to not work. Either we need to fix the template or we need to do a bugzilla report and work it from the Wikisoftare side but clearly and without a doubt in my mind there is a fix to this problem that doesn't involve turning this into an us against them dispute. [[User:Kumioko|Kumioko]] ([[User talk:Kumioko|talk]]) 23:07, 10 June 2012 (UTC)
::::If you put the redirect at the top, and the WikiProject banner below that, the redirect works, as does the categorisation, even though the banner does not show. See {{oldid|User talk:Redrose64/Sandbox2|497094687|here}}. --[[User:Redrose64|<span style="color:#a80000; background:#ffeeee; text-decoration:inherit">Red</span>rose64]] ([[User talk:Redrose64|talk]]) 18:09, 11 June 2012 (UTC)
:::::Thats what I thought to but Rschen7754 and a couple of others insist it breaks the redirect. [[User:Kumioko|Kumioko]] ([[User talk:Kumioko|talk]]) 19:19, 11 June 2012 (UTC)
::::::No... my opposition is to your using a soft redirect. --'''[[User:Rschen7754|Rs]][[User talk:Rschen7754|chen]][[Special:Contributions/Rschen7754|7754]]''' 19:41, 11 June 2012 (UTC)
:::::::Sorry Rschen7754 I must have misunderstood the discussion you started on my page [[User talk:Kumioko|here]] where you and Imzadi were indicating that I was breaking the redirects by applying banners. [[User:Kumioko|Kumioko]] ([[User talk:Kumioko|talk]]) 19:51, 11 June 2012 (UTC)
::::::::Well, I also oppose your putting the banner as the very first thing on a redirect page, as that clearly breaks the redirect. When you're using AWB you have to be careful that you don't break pages. --'''[[User:Rschen7754|Rs]][[User talk:Rschen7754|chen]][[Special:Contributions/Rschen7754|7754]]''' 19:59, 11 June 2012 (UTC)
:::::::::I again find myself confused because I have purposfully putting the banner '''below''' the redirect because I knew that putting the banner above the redirect caused the redirect to not function. I am fine with the banner not showing on redirects but it still helps for categorization purposes and so bots like ArticleAlertbot will function. In fact I have logic built in AWB that will not allow me (at least I haven't found an exception yet) to put the banner above the redirect. [[User:Kumioko|Kumioko]] ([[User talk:Kumioko|talk]]) 20:12, 11 June 2012 (UTC)
::::::::::Putting the template below the redirect code still breaks the redirect page, as has been explained above; not as badly, but it still does. Furthermore, I oppose this on the grounds that you're adding ''another project's pages in project space'' to your WikiProject. I'm sorry, but this is a solution looking for a problem. --'''[[User:Rschen7754|Rs]][[User talk:Rschen7754|chen]][[Special:Contributions/Rschen7754|7754]]''' 20:22, 11 June 2012 (UTC)
:::::::::::The bottom line is this is another ridiculous attempt at article ownership by you and certain members of US Roads. Your using the excuse that I am breaking redirects but thats what it boils down too. The fact that you and some other members of USRoads think that they have sole ownership over pages that say stuff like WikiProject Rhode Islands roads and that Rhode Island nor United States have the right to put their banner on it andn watch it is pure hog wash. If it says USRoads X or WikiProject US Roads X or something like that you '''might''' have a leg to stand on but even then I doubt it. If the page pertains to another project like a State project or a City project then there is an inferred collaboration wether you choose to accept that or not. I have already told you that US Roads is free to tag whatever they want if they think it will help yuor project or the articles in it. You don't have the right to tell our project that we can't tag it. Period. I'm not going to keep having this debate with you just because no one wants to enforce the article ownership policy and I'mm getting really tired of the same 3-5 members of US Roads ganging up on me every time I tag an article in your scope. Get over it, you don't own them. [[User:Kumioko|Kumioko]] ([[User talk:Kumioko|talk]]) 20:29, 11 June 2012 (UTC)
== Template:WikiProject Food and drink ==
Hi, [[Template:WikiProject Food and drink]] has errors that are placing it into [[:Category:Pages where expansion depth is exceeded]]. I tried paring down the /doc page, but that didn't get rid of the error. Could someone take a look at the template? Thanks, --[[User:Funandtrvl|Funandtrvl]] ([[User talk:Funandtrvl|talk]]) 23:35, 13 July 2012 (UTC)
*Per [[WP:MULTI]] I have replied at [[Template talk:WikiProject Food and drink#Pages where expansion depth is exceeded]] because that thread pre-dates this one. --[[User:Redrose64|<span style="color:#a80000; background:#ffeeee; text-decoration:inherit">Red</span>rose64]] ([[User talk:Redrose64|talk]]) 14:05, 14 July 2012 (UTC)
== Adding Quality (FL) to the Assessment table ==
In [[Wikipedia:WikiProject_Israel#Assessment]], I have added the FL tag and created the categories like the FA does but when putting the class=FL in the talk page of the articles I only get ??? (like in here [[Talk:List of Israeli football champions]]) and an empty note in the FL-class category. After using the [http://toolserver.org/~enwp10/bin/update.fcgi?projectselect=Israel-related&project=Israel-related toolserver updater] the FL was removed. Can someone see what I did wrong and add FL correctly to the Assessment of WikiProject_Israel so we have it aswell. <br /> – ''[[User:HonorTheKing|HonorTheKing]] ([[User talk:HonorTheKing|talk]])'' 15:56, 26 July 2012 (UTC)
:At [[Template:WikiProject Israel/class]] you need to amend {{para|fl|no}} to {{para|fl|yes}}. --[[User:Redrose64|<span style="color:#a80000; background:#ffeeee; text-decoration:inherit">Red</span>rose64]] ([[User talk:Redrose64|talk]]) 16:11, 26 July 2012 (UTC)
:There is a separate problem that right now the toolserver database is severely lagged - more than a week. There is a thread about it on [[WP:VPT]]. So, even once things are correct on the wiki, it will take a long time for the WP 1.0 statistics to reflect them. — Carl <small>([[User:CBM|CBM]] · [[User talk:CBM|talk]])</small> 16:32, 26 July 2012 (UTC)
::Thank you. <br /> – ''[[User:HonorTheKing|HonorTheKing]] ([[User talk:HonorTheKing|talk]])'' 17:03, 26 July 2012 (UTC)
== B icon size ==
Please see an issue I'm wondering about for the [[Template_talk:WikiProject_Ships#Metabanner_functions|B-class icon]] and it's appearance. I found an [[Template_talk:WPBannerMeta/Archive_3#B-class_checklist|archived discussion]] about reducing the size as it appears in the banner but either it's not working, needs adjustment or something is wrong on my end. [[User:Brad101|Brad]] ([[User talk:Brad101|talk]]) 23:58, 26 July 2012 (UTC)
== WikiProject Soap Operas ==
Hello. I recently added the extended quality scale to the banner for {{tl|WikiProject Soap Operas}}. I'm in the process of making sure everything is properly classified, but for some reason the articles tagged with "class=redirect" are still showing up as "NA-class". I'm sure that there is something simple that I am missing, but something needs to be fixed, so that all the redirects in the project show up in the proper category. Thanks! [[User:Fortdj33|Fortdj33]] ([[User talk:Fortdj33|talk]]) 12:55, 6 August 2012 (UTC)
:Redirect is not part of the extended class scale. I've created a [[Template:WikiProject Soap Operas/class|custom class mask]] page so that the banner will work with the redirect class. -- [[User:WOSlinker|WOSlinker]] ([[User talk:WOSlinker|talk]]) 13:10, 6 August 2012 (UTC)
== Featured Media class assessment for subprojects in Christianity banner ==
OK, I went ahead and did the appropriate changes to the Christianity WikiProject banner to allow for FM class, but when I have done a few assessments with it for FM class, and added the parameters for some of the subprojects, they only come up as being "File" class for the subprojects. Any idea where I screwed up in adjusting the banner, because I fairly obviously did somewhere? [[User:John Carter|John Carter]] ([[User talk:John Carter|talk]]) 00:10, 10 August 2012 (UTC)
:Just needed to do set it for the taskforce templates as well. See [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:WikiProject_Christianity&diff=506685447&oldid=506600383 this]. -- [[User:WOSlinker|WOSlinker]] ([[User talk:WOSlinker|talk]]) 06:42, 10 August 2012 (UTC)
== This is the most confusing template ever, I need someone smart ==
Does anyone have a clue as to a way to add [[:Category:Articles covered by WikiProject Wikify]] (dated) and [[:Category:All articles covered by WikiProject Wikify]] to all articles tagged as needing an infobox? This would be in addition to the current default and the WikiProject categories. {{tlx|DMCA|Articles covered by WikiProject Wikify|from|{{{date|}}}|All articles covered by WikiProject Wikify}} would work, it's just a matter of where to put it so it is only enabled if the page needs an infobox and doesn't get overriden. [[User:Ryan Vesey|'''''Ryan''''']] [[User talk:Ryan Vesey|'''''Vesey''''']] 15:19, 11 August 2012 (UTC)
:I guess this is follow-up to [[WP:VPT#WPBannerMeta categorization]]. --[[User:Redrose64|<span style="color:#a80000; background:#ffeeee; text-decoration:inherit">Red</span>rose64]] ([[User talk:Redrose64|talk]]) 17:59, 11 August 2012 (UTC)
::Here's something in the [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:WPBannerMeta/core/sandbox&diff=506920145&oldid=506919602 sandbox] to add those two cats. working with dates would need few more changes to WPBannerMeta and also to all of the individual banner templates to pass through the date param as well. -- [[User:WOSlinker|WOSlinker]] ([[User talk:WOSlinker|talk]]) 18:25, 11 August 2012 (UTC)
:::If it's undated, I wouldn't want it to be a part of the non-all category. Is there any reason that the two wikimarkup categories couldn't be replaced with the template I provided? In either situation, we need to hold off for [[User talk:Ryan Vesey#WikiProject Wikify]] to be cleared up before we move forward. [[User:Ryan Vesey|'''''Ryan''''']] [[User talk:Ryan Vesey|'''''Vesey''''']] 18:30, 11 August 2012 (UTC)
::::[//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:WPBannerMeta/core/sandbox&diff=506930484&oldid=506920145 Here it is] using the DMCA template. -- [[User:WOSlinker|WOSlinker]] ([[User talk:WOSlinker|talk]]) 19:41, 11 August 2012 (UTC)
:::::Oh, now I see what you meant by a date parameter. I guess that wouldn't work very well since there isn't a date parameter in the templates. The best solution then is probably to only add the "all" one. [[User:Ryan Vesey|'''''Ryan''''']] [[User talk:Ryan Vesey|'''''Vesey''''']] 19:46, 11 August 2012 (UTC)
== Clarification of discussion links ==
{{Editprotected|Template:WPBannerMeta/core|ans=yes}}
Where a talk page has more than one instance of this template, we end up with two or more, ambiguous <code><nowiki>[[...|discussion]]</nowiki></code> links. Also, the wording suggests that discussion takes place on the project page itself, (not the talk page) I therefore propose, to resolve these issues, that we change:
<code><nowiki>|If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the [[{{TALKPAGENAME:{{{PROJECT_LINK}}}}}|discussion]] and see a list of open tasks.</nowiki></code>
to:
<code><nowiki>|If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can see a list of open tasks; or join the [[{{TALKPAGENAME:{{{PROJECT_LINK}}}}}|{{{PROJECT_NAME}}} discussion]].</nowiki></code>
<span class="vcard"><span class="fn">[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]</span> (<span class="nickname">Pigsonthewing</span>); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]</span> 09:43, 4 September 2012 (UTC)
:I've amended the {{tlx|editprotected}} because the code for this is in {{tlx|WPBannerMeta/core}}, not {{tlx|WPBannerMeta}} - this talk page is shared. --[[User:Redrose64|<span style="color:#a80000; background:#ffeeee; text-decoration:inherit">Red</span>rose64]] ([[User talk:Redrose64|talk]]) 13:14, 4 September 2012 (UTC)
:In my opinion there is no confusion possible, because of the previous sentence. ''(This article is within the scope of XYZ ...)'' And using {{{PROJECT}}} before discussion would sound unnatural in many cases. In any case, this needs more discussion, so I have disabled the request. — Martin <small>([[User:MSGJ|MSGJ]] · [[User talk:MSGJ|talk]])</small> 20:01, 4 September 2012 (UTC)
::It wouldn't be <code>{{{PROJECT}}}</code> alone - when <code>{{{PROJECT_LINK}}}</code> or <code>{{{PROJECT_NAME}}}</code> are unspecified, the code in [[Template:WPBannerMeta]] creates replacements for those as <code>Wikipedia:WikiProject {{{PROJECT}}}</code> or <code>WikiProject {{{PROJECT}}}</code> respectively. Consider {{tlx|WikiProject Albums}}: the message would be <code><nowiki>or join the [[{{TALKPAGENAME:Wikipedia:WikiProject Albums}}|WikiProject Albums discussion]].</nowiki></code> which produces "or join the [[{{TALKPAGENAME:Wikipedia:WikiProject Albums}}|WikiProject Albums discussion]]." --[[User:Redrose64|<span style="color:#a80000; background:#ffeeee; text-decoration:inherit">Red</span>rose64]] ([[User talk:Redrose64|talk]]) 21:33, 4 September 2012 (UTC)
:::Okay, I see. In that case it would possibly look okay, so my opposition is reduced. But I still question whether this is needed. — Martin <small>([[User:MSGJ|MSGJ]] · [[User talk:MSGJ|talk]])</small> 11:55, 5 September 2012 (UTC)
::Assistive technologies like screen readers used by people who have sight impairment offer the option to read links in isolation. [[WCAG]] accessibility standards say that links should be distinguishable in such circumstances. <span class="vcard"><span class="fn">[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]</span> (<span class="nickname">Pigsonthewing</span>); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]</span> 13:00, 5 September 2012 (UTC)
In the absence of a response by Martin, does anyone else have a view? <span class="vcard"><span class="fn">[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]</span> (<span class="nickname">Pigsonthewing</span>); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]</span> 20:44, 10 September 2012 (UTC)
== Add category Exclude in Print ==
{{Edit protected|ans=yes}}
I recommend adding logic to include all WikiProject banners using this template to be included in [[:Category:Exclude in print]]. [[User:Kumioko|Kumioko]] ([[User talk:Kumioko|talk]]) 18:42, 5 September 2012 (UTC)
:I also suggest someone remove the affected WikiPrjoject banners from [[MediaWiki:PDF Template Blacklist]]. I can't think of a good reason they are there anyway.[[User:Kumioko|Kumioko]] ([[User talk:Kumioko|talk]]) 18:59, 5 September 2012 (UTC)
::[[Template:WPBannerMeta/templatepage]] is only semi-protected so you can do that yourself. -- [[User:WOSlinker|WOSlinker]] ([[User talk:WOSlinker|talk]]) 19:34, 5 September 2012 (UTC)
:::Its done thanks. [[User:Kumioko|Kumioko]] ([[User talk:Kumioko|talk]]) 19:58, 5 September 2012 (UTC)
== Limit to the number of task forces? ==
Hi. I am currently looking at adding [[Wikipedia:WikiProject UK Parliament constituencies|UK Parliament constituencies]] as a task force of the broader [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Politics of the United Kingdom|Politics of the United Kingdom]]. It has [[Wikipedia talk:WikiProject UK Parliament constituencies#Sharing the UK Politics banner|now been suggested]] that we have separate task forces for [[UK Parliament]] constituencies (eg [[Argyll and Bute (UK Parliament constituency)|Argyll and Bute]]) and [[Scottish Parliament]] constituencies (eg [[Argyll and Bute (Scottish Parliament constituency)|Argyll and Bute]]) so there are separate sets of quality data. This suggestion has merit but could lead us to having 5 or 6 different task forces to cover the various political institutions.
<br/>Is there a limit to the number of task forces that can be supported by this template? I wouldn't want to use up so many task forces if the number is limited but there won't be an issue if the number is very large or infinite. [[User:Road Wizard|Road Wizard]] ([[User talk:Road Wizard|talk]]) 16:16, 8 September 2012 (UTC)
:There is a builtin limit of 5 but you can add more using the [[Template:WPBannerMeta/hooks|hooks]] system. See {{tl|WikiProject United States}}, {{tl|WikiProject India}}, {{tl|WikiProject Film}} and others for examples of the use. -- [[User:WOSlinker|WOSlinker]] ([[User talk:WOSlinker|talk]]) 17:49, 8 September 2012 (UTC)
::By using hooks, you can ''in theory'' have an infinite number of taskforces, but in practice the MediaWiki template limits will kick in at some point. Where that point exactly lies varies according to what else (primarily other WikiProject banners) is on the target talk page. In the UK we have something like 650 parliamentary constituencies, and I don't know of any WikiProject banner that has that many task forces. The one that I know of with the highest number is {{tlx|WikiProject United States}} - that has over 100 taskforces, one or more for each state plus a few more besides. --[[User:Redrose64|<span style="color:#a80000; background:#ffeeee; text-decoration:inherit">Red</span>rose64]] ([[User talk:Redrose64|talk]]) 19:37, 8 September 2012 (UTC)
:::If a taskforce was needed for each parliamentary constituency then something custom could be written rather than using the standard taskforce hook template. -- [[User:WOSlinker|WOSlinker]] ([[User talk:WOSlinker|talk]]) 21:34, 8 September 2012 (UTC)
::::Thank you both for the replies. Just brainstorming a list of potential sub-topics for the project I can only come up with 30 distinct areas, so it sounds like we have plenty of capacity. However I expect most of those sub-topics will never get to stage of having their own task force. I'll take a closer look at those suggested banners if I need to add the hook code. [[User:Road Wizard|Road Wizard]] ([[User talk:Road Wizard|talk]]) 21:42, 8 September 2012 (UTC)
== Taskforce parameter syntax ==
At present the syntax for a taskforce is:
: <code>[taskforce name] = yes</code>
I would like to see it changed to:
: <code>taskforce = [taskforce name] </code>
The latter is more intuitive for new editors.
The old syntax may have to be retained? Is all this feasible? -- [[User:Alan Liefting|Alan Liefting]] ([[User_talk:Alan_Liefting|talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Alan_Liefting|contribs]]) 21:14, 8 September 2012 (UTC)
:There are banners that have more than one taskforce enabled at once, so would also need
:: <code>taskforce2 = [taskforce name] </code>
:: <code>taskforce3 = [taskforce name] </code>
:: <code>taskforce4 = [taskforce name] </code>
:: <code>taskforce5 = [taskforce name] </code>
:The old syntax would have to be retained, not may. It's all possible to implement but would probably need discussing somewhere more visible first if it were to be configured on all banners. -- [[User:WOSlinker|WOSlinker]] ([[User talk:WOSlinker|talk]]) 21:27, 8 September 2012 (UTC)
:::Would also need corresponding params for importance for those taskforces that assess importance independantly. -- [[User:WOSlinker|WOSlinker]] ([[User talk:WOSlinker|talk]]) 21:30, 8 September 2012 (UTC)
::: <code>taskforce-importance = value </code>
::: <code>taskforce2-importance = value </code>
::: <code>taskforce3-importance = value </code>
::: <code>taskforce4-importance = value </code>
::: <code>taskforce5-importance = value </code>
::So it is feasible? Also, if the new method is adopted I would like the current syntax to eventually be deprecated. -- [[User:Alan Liefting|Alan Liefting]] ([[User_talk:Alan_Liefting|talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Alan_Liefting|contribs]]) 21:56, 8 September 2012 (UTC)
::I think the current syntax is probably clearer than what is proposed. It may make sense for projects with mutually exclusive task forces, but this is not usually the case. — Martin <small>([[User:MSGJ|MSGJ]] · [[User talk:MSGJ|talk]])</small> 16:46, 10 September 2012 (UTC)
:::Please don't do this. WikiProject US has like 90+ subprojects all using the same banner and this new code would make that impossible and or a complete nightmare to update. A lot of other projects are similar like Canada, Milhist and others all have a lot of taskforces. [[User:Kumioko|Kumioko]] ([[User talk:Kumioko|talk]]) 16:52, 10 September 2012 (UTC)
::::Martin, whta prompted me to propose this change is that creating <code><nowiki>{{WikiProject Africa|Nigeria=yes}}</nowiki></code> is completely counter-intuitive. <code><nowiki>{{WikiProject Africa|taskforce=Nigeria}}</nowiki></code> seems better to me. -- [[User:Alan Liefting|Alan Liefting]] ([[User_talk:Alan_Liefting|talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Alan_Liefting|contribs]]) 20:49, 17 September 2012 (UTC)
::::Kumioko, if both formats are used it is not an issue. Also if the current format could be deprecated and a bot could make the tedious and extensive changes to the proposed format. -- [[User:Alan Liefting|Alan Liefting]] ([[User_talk:Alan_Liefting|talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Alan_Liefting|contribs]]) 20:49, 17 September 2012 (UTC)
:::::Why is <code><nowiki>{{WikiProject Africa|Nigeria=yes}}</nowiki></code> completely counter-intuitive? To me, this is saying "yes, this is related to Nigeria". Besides, it's the same technique as is used for virtually every other taskforce or subproject in virtually all WikiProject banners (I say "virtually", because I can't prove 100%: but I don't recall seeing it done any other way). For example, {{tlx|WikiProject Trains}} allows {{para|stations|yes}}, {{para|locos|yes}}, and many others, meaning "yes, this is related to stations", "... to locomotives", etc. --[[User:Redrose64|<span style="color:#a80000; background:#ffeeee; text-decoration:inherit">Red</span>rose64]] ([[User talk:Redrose64|talk]]) 21:26, 17 September 2012 (UTC)
::::::IMHO {{para|taskforce|Trains}} and {{para|taskforce|Stations}} would be better for newbies. -- [[User:Alan Liefting|Alan Liefting]] ([[User_talk:Alan_Liefting|talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Alan_Liefting|contribs]]) 00:46, 19 September 2012 (UTC)
I think it is worth reiterating the point made by WOSlinker above, that would make this system less intuitive than you might think. Suppose we had an article related to Nigeria and Cameroon, of high importance to the former, but low importance to the latter. Under the current system, you would enter the following:
<pre>{{WikiProject Africa|Nigeria=yes|Nigeria-importance=high|Cameroon=yes|Cameroon-importance=low}}</pre>
which is fairly clear. However, under the proposed system, this would become:
<pre>{{WikiProject Africa|taskforce=Nigeria|taskforce-importance=high|taskforce2=Cameroon|taskforce2-importance=low}}</pre>
It is now not as clear that the "high" is related to Nigeria, and the "low" is related to Cameroon. — Martin <small>([[User:MSGJ|MSGJ]] · [[User talk:MSGJ|talk]])</small> 09:05, 19 September 2012 (UTC)
== Taskforce portals ==
I notice that the recognised parameters for the five "main" taskforces are not the same as those for those provided via {{tlx|WPBannerMeta/hooks/taskforces}}. Ignoring the permitted number of taskforces (5 vs 10), I've found that {{tlx|WPBannerMeta}} doesn't recognise {{para|TF_1_PORTAL}}. This has come to light because {{diff|Template:WikiProject Novels|prev|517453725|this edit}} only added two portal boxes, not the expected three. --[[User:Redrose64|<span style="color:#a80000; background:#ffeeee; text-decoration:inherit">Red</span>rose64]] ([[User talk:Redrose64|talk]]) 19:50, 12 October 2012 (UTC)
:The TF PORTAL params are only support through the hook mechnism. As to reason why, I'm not sure. But I've fixed it by stopping to use the 5 builtin ones and adding more hooks. See [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:WikiProject_Novels&diff=517459238&oldid=517453725 this edit]. -- [[User:WOSlinker|WOSlinker]] ([[User talk:WOSlinker|talk]]) 20:16, 12 October 2012 (UTC)
== Request for Modification ==
Hi. On what page is the the text, "This article has been rated as ???-importance on the project's importance scale." Specifically I am asking about the output from {{tl|WikiProject Freemasonry|class=|importance=}} template. I want to know where to go to look at the code that outputs the text, "This article has been rated."
Thanks. <span style="font-family:Georgia">[[User:RiverStyx23|RiverStyx23]]</span>{<sup>[[User talk:RiverStyx23|talk]]</sup><sub>[[Special:EmailUser/RiverStyx23|email]]</sub>} 18:38, 31 December 2012 (UTC)
:It's in [[Template:WPBannerMeta/importancescale]] -- [[User:WOSlinker|WOSlinker]] ([[User talk:WOSlinker|talk]]) 20:20, 31 December 2012 (UTC)
::OK, the talk page for that comes back here, so here goes. As I understand the importance rating, it grades the importance of the <u>subject matter</u> of the article, not the article itself. Thus I suggest the wording be changed from "This article has been rated as ???-importance on the project's importance scale" to "This <u>subject matter of this</u> article has been rated as ???-importance on the project's importance scale." <span style="font-family:Georgia">[[User:RiverStyx23|RiverStyx23]]</span>{<sup>[[User talk:RiverStyx23|talk]]</sup><sub>[[Special:EmailUser/RiverStyx23|email]]</sub>} 20:46, 31 December 2012 (UTC)
Burp... or bump... or something...? <span style="font-family:Georgia">[[User:RiverStyx23|River<span style="color:black;">Styx</span>23]]</span>{<sub>[[Special:EmailUser/RiverStyx23|submarine]]</sub><sup>[[User talk:RiverStyx23|target]]</sup>} 23:47, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
== These banners might be breaking WP's community ==
Hi,
Discussion on Talk pages has been dwindling for years. I used to be able to post questions and expect some kind of reply in the coming weeks or months, but the replies have been drying up drastically.
I'm starting to think that the problem is that when someone clicks on a Talk page, they used to see a table of contents with a list of discussions and questions, but nowadays they see a bunch of boxes.
I don't know where to raise this. Anyone got ideas for other ways to include these boxes without hiding the Talk page table of contents? And what forum I should use to raise this issue? [[User:Gronky|Gronky]] ([[User talk:Gronky|talk]]) 17:44, 7 January 2013 (UTC)
:You could enclose the WikiProject banners in either {{tlx|WikiProjectBanners}} or {{tlx|WikiProjectBannerShell}}; or you could set {{para|small|yes}} on each WikiProject banner. The {{para|small|yes}} parameter, although not documented on all WikiProject banners, is recognised by the vast majority (I don't know of any that don't, but I've not checked them all). Please note:
:*{{para|small|yes}} doesn't work properly in conjunction with either {{tlx|WikiProjectBanners}} or {{tlx|WikiProjectBannerShell}} so you should pick one method or the other, but not both;
:*these techniques don't work for those boxes which are not WikiProject banners. --[[User:Redrose64|<span style="color:#a80000; background:#ffeeee; text-decoration:inherit">Red</span>rose64]] ([[User talk:Redrose64|talk]]) 18:06, 7 January 2013 (UTC)
::Thanks. I'll look into that. I fear it won't be enough to make the table of contents visible without scrolling, but there might be ways to get there from what you recommend. One idea would be to have the small banners appear on the right-hand edge of the screen. Fixing the problem this way would also involve all banners having this feature, and it being on by default, so I'll still have to find the forum where such conventions can be suggested and defended. [[User:Gronky|Gronky]] ([[User talk:Gronky|talk]]) 21:27, 7 January 2013 (UTC)
:::Er... don't the small banners already appear on the right? --[[User:Redrose64|<span style="color:#a80000; background:#ffeeee; text-decoration:inherit">Red</span>rose64]] ([[User talk:Redrose64|talk]]) 22:16, 7 January 2013 (UTC)
::::Thanks :-) I was thinking of something else. I've got it working now on [[Talk:Emacs]]. I'll give that a try for a few months and see if things pick up again. [[User:Gronky|Gronky]] ([[User talk:Gronky|talk]]) 06:03, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
:Or there's {{tl|skip to talk}} where the. But if people don't feel like pressing the "down" button on the keyboard to get past the boxes (which aren't generally as numerous as at, say, [[Talk:Richard Nixon]], what makes you think that they would be bothered to reply to messages anyway? Isn't more likely to be related to a decline in active editors? [[User:Bencherlite|Bencherlite]][[User talk:Bencherlite|<i><sup>Talk</sup></i>]] 22:27, 7 January 2013 (UTC)
::I think this problem began before the problem of declining editors, and I think replies have declines faster than number of editors. Just my perceptions. {{tl|skip to talk}} is better than nothing, but I think the problem is that the table of contents doesn't stand out when people look at Talk pages. (It's often not even in the first screenful.) ...and I think this my require a project-wide solution rather than one where I modify the Talk pages I use (which might then be undone by the archive bots - who are probably also a lesser cause of this problem). [[User:Gronky|Gronky]] ([[User talk:Gronky|talk]]) 05:50, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
== Long portal name = empty space on right ==
Wikiprojects with long names that use this template like [[Template:WikiProject Bosnia and Herzegovina|Bosnia and Herzegovina]] and [[Template:WikiProject Trinidad and Tobago|Trinidad and Tobago]] have an odd and unnecessary empty space in their portal link box. Could someone fix this? --<span style="font-family:xx-medium serif;">◅ [[User:PRODUCER|<span style="color:black; letter-spacing: 0.2cm;">PRODUCER</span>]] <small>([[User talk:PRODUCER|<span style="color:black;">TALK</span>]])</small></span> 22:51, 31 January 2013 (UTC)
:Does the extra space only appear in certain browsers (e.g. Chrome) and not in others (e.g. Internet Explorer)? If so, I suspect the same issue as described at [[Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)/Archive 107#Portal Links]]. --[[User:Redrose64|<span style="color:#a80000; background:#ffeeee; text-decoration:inherit">Red</span>rose64]] ([[User talk:Redrose64|talk]]) 23:08, 31 January 2013 (UTC)
== [[:Category:WikiProject Categories articles]] ==
See [[Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2013 January 21#Category:WikiProject_Categories_articles]], where there was a local consensus to rename [[:Category:WikiProject Categories articles]] to [[:Category:WikiProject Categories pages]].
Can this be implemented? --[[User:BrownHairedGirl|<span style="color:#663200;">Brown</span>HairedGirl]] <small>[[User talk:BrownHairedGirl|(talk)]] • ([[Special:Contributions/BrownHairedGirl|contribs]])</small> 17:51, 10 February 2013 (UTC)
:Fairly sure this doesn't require anything more than changing
::<code>|MAIN_CAT = WikiProject Categories articles</code>
:to
::<code>|MAIN_CAT = WikiProject Categories pages</code>
:On {{tlx|WikiProject Categories}}. [[User:Happy-melon|<b style="color:forestgreen">Happy</b>]]‑[[User talk:Happy-melon|<b style="color:darkorange">melon</b>]] 18:06, 10 February 2013 (UTC)
::Thanks! Done that. --[[User:BrownHairedGirl|<span style="color:#663200;">Brown</span>HairedGirl]] <small>[[User talk:BrownHairedGirl|(talk)]] • ([[Special:Contributions/BrownHairedGirl|contribs]])</small> 18:13, 10 February 2013 (UTC)
:See also [[:Category:Project-Class Editor Retention articles]], per [[Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2013 January 18#Category:Project-Class_Editor_Retention_articles]]. --[[User:BrownHairedGirl|<span style="color:#663200;">Brown</span>HairedGirl]] <small>[[User talk:BrownHairedGirl|(talk)]] • ([[Special:Contributions/BrownHairedGirl|contribs]])</small> 18:09, 10 February 2013 (UTC)
== Misunderstanding of Book-class ==
Do we have any tools for detecting when {{para|class|book}} has been used for a page which isn't a [[Wikipedia:Book]], but is in fact a regular article that just happens to be about a published book? See {{diff|Talk:The American Boy's Handy Book|prev|537495367|here}} for example. While we're about it, can we detect any other inappropriate uses of {{para|class}} such as Stub on a category, or Template on an image? --[[User:Redrose64|<span style="color:#a80000; background:#ffeeee; text-decoration:inherit">Red</span>rose64]] ([[User talk:Redrose64|talk]]) 19:34, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
:I suppose a check for this could be added to [[Template:Class mask]] and a tracking category could be populated. Or if there are certain combinations of class and namespace which would never be appropriate, we could simply prevent them from occuring by overriding the ''class'' parameter. — Martin <small>([[User:MSGJ|MSGJ]] · [[User talk:MSGJ|talk]])</small> 09:29, 15 February 2013 (UTC)
::The check may be better at the end of [[Template:WPBannerMeta/core]] after the class param has been cleansed by class mask. There would still be quite a few combinations to check though. -- [[User:WOSlinker|WOSlinker]] ([[User talk:WOSlinker|talk]]) 10:21, 15 February 2013 (UTC)
:::If you could do such a check, couldn't it just set or override the class? --'''''— [[User:Gadget850|<span style="color:gray">Gadget850 (Ed)</span>]]'''''<sup>[[User talk:Gadget850| ''talk'']]</sup> 12:09, 15 February 2013 (UTC)
== |category=no conflict with FQS ==
I was just doing some cleanup and came across [[Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Law/Archive_13#Changing_the_WP_Law_template_to_include_a_link_to_Portal:Law_of_England_and_Wales | an example]] of someone trying to use the <code>|category=no</code> switch with a WPBM-based banner. AFAICT, the problem is that {{tl|WikiProject Law}} uses a custom class list with {{tl|class mask}} <code>|FQS=yes</code>. What seems to be happening is that <code>|category=no</code> seems to be applied by {{tl|class mask}} to stop the category class being used, rather than applying to WPBM to stop the article being included in a category. Am I right in that interpretation? It's obviously not ideal having the same parameter being used by two parts of the same template, particularly when the less important bit is "winning" the battle to use that parameter. I'm not sure what is the least bad way to fix this, perhaps we need two new versions of FQS in {{tl|class mask}}, one where <code>category=yes</code> is assumed, and one with <code>category=no</code> implied, so that {{tl|class mask}} doesn't need a separate <code>category</code> parameter? (I did search the archives to see if this had come up before, apologies if it has) [[User:Le Deluge|Le Deluge]] ([[User talk:Le Deluge|talk]]) 19:55, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
:It's fine. The {{para|category}} parameters are used in the different templates in different ways and one does not affect the other. For example: {{tlx|WikiProject Law|2=class=category|3=category=no}}
{{WikiProject Law|class=category|category=no}}
:-- [[User:WOSlinker|WOSlinker]] ([[User talk:WOSlinker|talk]]) 20:12, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
::Ach, sorry to bother you like that. I've now realised that the sandbox version of the template had a not-very-obvious transclusion that applied a category and was ignoring <code>category=no</code>. My fault, apologies again. [[User:Le Deluge|Le Deluge]] ([[User talk:Le Deluge|talk]]) 00:44, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
:::Hmm, altering the WPLAW banner so that it would take an optional additional portal link was an idea I had, but I never got round to taking it live. Does the code you've now tweaked fix a problem I didn't even know I had?! Can you see anything stopping the revised code being used? Thanks for looking at this. [[User:Bencherlite|Bencherlite]][[User talk:Bencherlite|<i><sup>Talk</sup></i>]] 08:30, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
::::I thought it was working, but now it's definitely not. I've tried to simplify it (take it out of the EW detection etc) just for now but it still doesn't seem to be picking up the <code>{{{category}}}</code> correctly. I'm very much a beginner at template synbtax, if anyone wants to have a look the relevant transclude is at [[Template:WikiProject Law/sandbox/portalbox]], the rest of it is at [[Template:WikiProject Law/sandbox]] and a test is at [[Template talk:WikiProject Law/sandbox ]] - one thing I did find is that it works much better if you test the version you've been editing in the sandbox rather than the "live" one that's not been touched!!! [[User:Le Deluge|Le Deluge]] ([[User talk:Le Deluge|talk]]) 22:40, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
:::::The reason was that you weren't passing the category param through from one template to the next template. I edited [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:WikiProject_Law/sandbox&diff=540396708&oldid=455414433 Template:WikiProject_Law/sandbox] to add that. I've also edited [[Template:WikiProject Law/sandbox/portalbox]] to make it use {{tl|WPBannerMeta/hooks/cats}} but you can go back to your original method if you want to. -- [[User:WOSlinker|WOSlinker]] ([[User talk:WOSlinker|talk]]) 23:33, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
Thank you to everyone for fixing my inelegant and inaccurate (and incomplete!) attempts. I've now updated the main template with the new code. [[User:Bencherlite|Bencherlite]][[User talk:Bencherlite|<i><sup>Talk</sup></i>]] 23:56, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
:I made {{diff|Template:WikiProject Law/portalbox|prev|540405314|a further fix}}. --[[User:Redrose64|<span style="color:#a80000; background:#ffeeee; text-decoration:inherit">Red</span>rose64]] ([[User talk:Redrose64|talk]]) 00:04, 26 February 2013 (UTC)
== Rewriting in Lua ==
Hello.
I am interested in having the templates using {{tl|WPBannerMeta}} being rewritten to use a Lua module.
Possible benefits:
* '''Cleaner code.''' It can make banner template code less verbose, easier to maintain, more self-documenting and semantic. As the developer of [[User:Kephir/gadgets/rater|Rater]], I would also like to be able to parse banner template code directly instead of relying on separate data blobs, prone to errors, being incomplete and outdated. Doing that with current templates is rather hard, with all the subtemplates, nested parameters and parser function calls. (Try reading the code of [[Template:WikiProject United States]] to see what I mean)
* '''More uniform parameters.''' Was it "US", "US-task-force" or "US-work-group"? "musician-importance" or "musician-priority"? "image-needed" or "needs-photo"? A Lua function could recognise all variants in all templates without hassle.
* '''Automatic documentation generation.''' The Lua code may detect when it is being called on the documentation subpage and generate a list of recognised parameters and their descriptions.
A module, [[Module:WikiProjectBanner]] should be written, with functions generating banner fragments based on parameters pulled from the template call and their own invocations.
Thoughts? <span class="signature">[[User:Kephir|Keφr]]</span> 10:57, 9 March 2013 (UTC)
:I'd be interested in this too. The various templates used by WPBannerMeta account for a great deal of the top entries at [[Wikipedia:Database reports/Templates transcluded on the most pages]], and it would be a good chance for me to learn Lua. It looks like it will be a heck of a job though. I think I'll start small with things like [[Template:Portal]]. If anyone else wants to help, or has a grand vision of how to implement this, I'm all ears. :) — '''''[[User:Mr. Stradivarius|<span style="color: #194D00; font-family: Palatino, Times, serif">Mr. Stradivarius</span>]]''''' <sup>[[User talk:Mr. Stradivarius|♪ talk ♪]]</sup> 13:45, 23 March 2013 (UTC)
:: Me too! Perhaps we could also wait for WikiData transclusion to be enabled, and figure out if we can use it to store some of the primary data (per project ratings/importances?)? [[User:Yuvipanda|YuviPanda]] ([[User talk:Yuvipanda|talk]]) 02:37, 31 March 2013 (UTC)
:Please do so. This template seems to be really punishing the job queue for a while. '''[[User talk:Aaron Schulz|<span style="color:blue;">Aar</span><span style="color:darkblue;">on Sc</span><span style="color:black;">hulz</span>]]''' 23:51, 24 May 2013 (UTC)
* Consider below: "[[#Streamline to bypass /core for simple options]]" because rewriting so many parameter options in [[Lua script]] could take weeks of coding and testing. Unless weeks of testing of the Lua version were done, then the rewrite in Lua could break some banners, which would prompt some users to really complain. -[[User_talk:Wikid77|Wikid77]] 14:47, 25 May 2013 (UTC)
*I don't think a rewrite in Lua should be done as a drop in replacement for Template:WPBannerMeta anyway. It would be better to create Module:WPBannerMeta and then gradually go around and update each of the projects banner templates to use the module directly. -- [[User:WOSlinker|WOSlinker]] ([[User talk:WOSlinker|talk]]) 16:33, 25 May 2013 (UTC)
* I agree that a Lua rewrite is the way to go, as opposed to the streamlining option. That said, I do ask that you keep [[WP:1.0/I]] in the loop about any proposed changes to the quality/importance display, such as the WikiData proposal above. [[User:Titoxd|Tito<span style="color:#008000;">xd</span>]]<sup>([[User talk:Titoxd|?!?]] - [[WP:FAC|cool stuff]])</sup> 17:29, 25 May 2013 (UTC)
== Streamline to bypass /core for simple options ==
Rather than rewriting in [[Lua script]], the top-level [[Template:WPBannerMeta]] could be modified to quickly format the banner-box, using similar table-box structure, when only the basic options are used, else call {WPBannerMeta/core} when rare parameters are also passed. The typical template speed seems to be {WPBannerMeta} runs in 0.34s (one-third second), which is equivalent to running about 300 #ifeq conditions. So, if the template were modified to run with a streamlined design, with only 50 #ifeq conditions to format the banner-box for the basic parameters, then it would run 6x faster, as 18x times per second, rather than 3/sec. The current expansion-depth level is 33, which would increase by 1 as 34 levels to format rare options, after the template became streamlined. A similar streamlined design was used in [[Template:Cite_web/sandbox4]], to only call {Citation/core} when rare parameters were used. Note: all banner parameters would still be allowed, but using only the basic parameters would format a banner over 6x faster, as with perhaps 95% of current banners. -[[User:Wikid77|Wikid77]] ([[User talk:Wikid77|talk]]) 14:47, 25 May 2013 (UTC)
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