Talk:Winston tastes good like a cigarette should: Difference between revisions

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|An entry from '''{{PAGENAME}}''' appeared on Wikipedia's [[Main Page]] in the '''[[:Template:Did you know|Did you know?]]''' column on [[20 July]], [[2006]].

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(nominated by ++[[User:Lar|Lar]]: [[User_talk:Lar|t]]/[[Special:Contributions/Lar|c]] 20:34, 16 July 2006 (UTC))

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==GA==

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Congrats, this is now officially a Good Article. Way to go on documenting such an interesting piece of Americana. [[User:pschemp|pschemp]] | [[User talk:pschemp|talk]] 03:59, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

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==[[MAD Magazine]] parody==

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The back cover of MAD's January 1971 issue (distributed in November 1970) features a color photograph of a cemetery with four [[thought balloon]]s superimposed. Their dialogue is as follows:

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*1: "Winston tasted good like a cigarette should've."

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*2: "You mean, <u>as</u> a cigarette should've."

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*3: "What did you want, good grammar or good taste?"

*4: "I wanted to live a lot longer than this!"

*Caption at bottom of page: "Winston may not say it right, but they sure know how to put you right -- six feet under with CANCER BLEND tobaccos."

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== Grammatically incorrect? ==

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|dykentry=...that the makers of [[Winston (cigarette)|Winston]] [[cigarette]]s responded to qualms about the incorrect grammar present in the [[ad campaign]] "'''[[Winston tastes good like a cigarette should]]'''" with a completely new campaign, noting the error?

I think it should be changed from "many noted that the slogan was grammatically incorrect; it should, correctly, say.." to "many ''claimed'' that the slogan was grammatical incorrect, ''saying'' that it should, correctly, be..". Somehow I doubt it actually is grammatically incorrect. --[[User:Ptcamn|Ptcamn]] 12:13, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

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:Your proposed change isn't right either. As far as I can tell from the article, consensus at the time was that the phrase ''was'' grammatically incorrect, even if modern standards of grammatical correctness might not have judged it incorrect back then (if it was already in use in speech, which the article doesn't address). To complicate matters, this use of ''like'' is no longer considered ungrammatical today by more than a minority.

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:I propose "many noted that the slogan was grammatically incorrect; it should have said..." This removes the present tense altogether. [[User:194.151.6.67|194.151.6.67]] 13:52, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

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::Grammatical correctness isn't just a "standard", defined by consensus. It's an objective thing. If they thought it was grammatically incorrect at the time, then they were just as wrong as they would be if they claimed the same today (in my opinion). --[[User:Ptcamn|Ptcamn]] 14:21, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

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::: I do agree that grammatical correctness is not defined by concensus--it's defined by what people actually do (Ptcamn, is that what you mean by it being 'an objective thing'?). I agree with Ptcamn's proposed changes above. Just because people agreed it was incorrect doesn't mean it was--it is quite normal that how people speak, and how they think they speak are quite different. Actually, I'd like to see someone characterise exactly what it is about the construction that is grammatically incorrect. [[User:Dougg|Dougg]] 00:57, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

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::::I think it ''is'' explained: like should not be used as a conjunction in this sense, but replaced with as. In any case, I do propose that any changes we do to that section be written out here and discussed before being changed. [[User:Mike Halterman|Mike H.]] [[User talk:Mike Halterman|I did "That's hot" first!]] 01:50, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

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::: That's an injunction, not an explanation. And 'like' (in this usage) is usually described as a comprative preposition: I'm not sure why it's called a conjunction here. Surely it's not very different from, say, 'he's strong like an ox'? [[User:Dougg|Dougg]] 05:26, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

(nominated by ++[[User:Lar|Lar]]: [[User_talk:Lar|t]]/[[Special:Contributions/Lar|c]] 20:34, 16 July 2006 (UTC))

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::::In any case, do find a source where grammarians or English professors or the like defend "like a cigarette should." It'd be an interesting addition to the article. [[User:Mike Halterman|Mike H.]] [[User talk:Mike Halterman|I did "That's hot" first!]] 06:57, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

::: I don't know if it'll be possible to find a discussion of exactly this example, but I'm sure similar constructions have been described. I've emailed a colleague (I'm a linguist, but not an English specialist) about this. Hopefully I'll have something to post soon. [[User:Dougg|Dougg]] 10:22, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

== PD on TV! ==

Evidently (one of) the TV version(s) of this is PD, as the Internet Archive/Prelinger Archives has this availible for download: http://www.archive.org/details/ClassicT1948_3 along with several other cigarette commericals. [[User:68.39.174.238|68.39.174.238]] 14:15, 21 July 2006 (UTC)