Talk:Michael Everson: Difference between revisions

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*[[/Archive]] mostly pre- and post-VfD discussions.

{{WikiProject Biography }}

{{Notable Wikipedian|Evertype|Everson, Michael}}

{{WikiProject Writing systems |importance=Mid}}

[[Category:Wikipedian autobiography|Everson, Michael]]

{{WikiProject Typography |importance=mid}}

{{oldafdfull|result='''keep'''|date=[[26 April]] [[2005]]|votepage=Michael Everson}}

{{WikiProject Celts |importance=low}}

{{oldafdfull|result='''keep'''|date=[[20 July]] [[2006]]|votepage=Michael Everson (2nd Nomination)}}

{{WikiProject Ireland |importance=Mid |needs-infobox=y }}

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{{Old AfD multi|date=April 30, 2005

|page=Michael Everson

|result=no consensus

|date2=July 25, 2006

|page2=Michael Everson (2nd Nomination)

|result2=no consensus

|date3=February 13, 2007

|page3=Michael Everson (3rd Nomination)

|result3=Kept

|collapse=yes

}}

{{Archive box|

#[[/Archive 1|mostly pre- and post-VfD discussions]]

#[[/Archive 2|discussion of how the Chinese name was chosen]]

#[[/Archive 3| July 2006 to November 2007]]

#[[/Archive 4| March 2009 to November 2010]]

}}

{{Connected contributor|Evertype|Michael Everson}}

{{Connected contributor|BabelStone|Michael Everson|declared=yes|otherlinks= COI declared [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia%3AConflict_of_interest%2FNoticeboard&diff=655313941&oldid=655293863 here]}}

{{COI editnotice}}

== Publishing activities ==

== Does Michael Everson have a Chinese name? ==

Evertype's Carrollian publishing activities have been mentioned in various publications by the Lewis Carroll Society (UK and North America), and the forthcoming Irish ''Hobbit'' has been referred to in the British and Irish press as well as elsewhere. I do not know whether other editors consider this notable enough to appear in the article, but references can be provided. -- [[User:Evertype|Evertype]]·[[User_talk:Evertype|✆]] 18:14, 20 March 2012 (UTC)

== Armenian Eternity Sign ==

We have an article for [[:zh:魏安|Andrew West]] and [[:zh:小林劍|Ken Lunde]], but not yet for Michael Everson, the major contributor of Unicode. ;-)

{|

=== It might be "Āi Fúsēn" ===

I've just learned that '''Āiwénsēn''' is a standard transliteration for the names '''Eavenson''', '''Evanson''', and '''Evenson''' in Chinese, so I suppose it isn't suitable after all. (I learned it from this rather comprehensive [http://messene.nmsu.edu:8082/dictionaries/search2.php?word=e&type=letter&lang=Chinese&id=4&alphaP=4 page].) So I'm going to have to think about this some more. [[User:Evertype|Evertype]] 20:30, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

That same site gives '''Āifúsēn''' 埃弗森 as a standard transliteration for the names '''Efferson''', '''Everson''', and '''Evertson'''. Apparently, '''fú''' 弗 was used at least in Korea and Japan as a sight-character equivalent to the [[dollar sign]] $; it has a [[Kun reading]] '''doru''' which would suggest ''dollar'' to me; the Korean reading is '''bul''' {{Unicode|불}}. I wouldn't think a currency character appropriate for my name at all; and '''fú''' 弗 also means 'not, negative', also infelicitous, in my view.

If '''fú''' is essential, there is a good one in 符 which means 'symbol' and is used in compounds: '''fúhào''' 符号 'symbol, mark'; '''biāodiān fúhào''' 标点符号 'punctuation mark'; '''fúhé''' 符合 'accord with, conform to' (nice for a standardizer); '''fúzhòu''' 符咒 'Daoist charm'. That's not so bad. [[User:Evertype|Evertype]] 17:40, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

: Not so bad. What about 傅埋刻: the grandmaster of arcane types? [http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E5%82%85 傅] (Fù) is an established surname. – [[User:Kaihsu|Kaihsu]] 21:28, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

{| align=center id=toc style="margin-center: 25px;"

|align=center colspan=5 bgcolor=#ccccff| '''Michael Everson's name in Chinese'''

|-

| '''Pinyin'''

| '''Simplified'''

| '''Traditional'''

| '''"Meaning"'''

| '''Comment'''

|-

| Āifúsēn

| 埃符森

| 埃符森

| Egypt symbol forest

| The ''Egypt'' character 埃 refers to dust fines; 土 'earth' is the radical. 埃及 ''āijí'' is 'Egypt' per se.; 符 ''fú'' is 'symbol' as noted above, and 森 ''sēn'' is a tree rising above the forest, indicating rich growth or abundance. Another reading: Dusty Sign-forest.

|-

|[[File:Armenian_Eternity_Sign_Regular.png|left|frameless]]

||[[File:Armenian_Eternity_Sign_Italic.png|left|frameless]]

|}

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Armenian_Eternity_Sign

=== When it was thought the name might be "Āi Wénsēn" ===

:The name '''Āi Wénsēn''' 埃文森 has been thought suitable. The name was drawn up in consultation with Dr Lu Qin (the chair of the [[Ideographic_Rapporteur_Group|IRG]]), and others at the January 2005 ISO/IEC JTC1/SC2/WG2 meeting in Xiamen. We rejected all of the '''Sūn Màikè''' choices in favour of a rather more appropriate name!

{| align=center id=toc style="margin-center: 25px;"

|align=center colspan=5 bgcolor=#ccccff| '''Another former candidate for Michael Everson's name in Chinese'''

|-

| '''Pinyin'''

| '''Simplified'''

| '''Traditional'''

| '''"Meaning"'''

| '''Comment'''

|-

| Āiwénsēn

| 埃文森

| 埃文森

| Egypt script forest

| The ''Egypt'' character 埃 refers to dust fines; 土 'earth' is the radical. 埃及 ''āijí'' is 'Egypt' per se.; 文 ''wén'' is 'writing' of course, and 森 ''sēn'' is a tree rising above the forest, indicating rich growth or abundance. Another reading: Dusty Word-forest.

|-

|}

Dear Michael, specially for You! Best regards, [[User:Vahram Mekhitarian|Vahram Mekhitarian]] ([[User talk:Vahram Mekhitarian|talk]]) 00:24, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

=== When it was thought the name might be "Sūn Màikè" ===

:The name '''Sūn Màikè''' 孙迈克 (Traditional 孫邁克) has been thought suitable. '''Màikè''' is a standard rendering of ''Michael'' and '''Sūn''' is a family name (see [[Sun Tzu]] 孫子 ('''Sūnzǐ''') where the Traditional, not the Simplified, character is given) which means 'grandson' – a bit like "Ever-son" I suppose, in meaning and a little bit in sound – though "ever" is more distinctive in my name than "son". ''Before'' you enshrine this forever in the Chinese Wikipedia, perhaps there could be some discussion of this?. [[User:Evertype|Evertype]] 19:18, 2004 Aug 15 (UTC)

== Registration of Armenian Western, Grabar and Middle languages in ISO 693 series ==

::'[http://www.landlubber.com/jun99/michael.html Michael]' is from [[Hebrew language|Hebrew]] ''Micha-el'' (מיכאל), 'Who is like God?'. In [[literary Chinese]], this may be rendered 何神 (Hé Shén), and in turn [[Taiwanese (linguistics)|Taiwanese]] (to which Everson has made a contribution) ''hô-sîn'', which is a minimal pair with ''hô·-sîn'', [[fly]], which is all the more curious as [[Michael]] is the name of an [[archangel]], and if he is not careful he can end up being [[Beelzebub]]. (By the way, the biblical Taiwanese transliteration for 'Michael' is Bí-ka-le̍k; but that is boring.) As for ''Everson'', how about 永子 (Yǒngzǐ)?, but maybe 孫 is better after all. So I suggest 孫何神 ([[Pinyin]]: Sūn Héshén). -- [[User:Kaihsu|Kaihsu]] 21:47, 2004 Aug 15 (UTC)

::: By the way, the character I have rendered above as a middle dot in ''hô·-sîn'' should actually be U+0358, which Everson helped to get into the Unicode standard. So he has enabled his minimal-pair counterpart to be expressed correctly. -- [[User:Kaihsu|Kaihsu]] 22:00, 2004 Aug 15 (UTC)

Dear Mr. Everson

:: Although 孙迈克 ("Michael Sun") is reasonably descriptive, the combination seems to lack "authority" (some say, stuffiness). On the plus side it projects friendliness. My 2 cents. [[User:A-giau|A-giau]] 02:56, 19 Aug 2004 (UTC)

:So far I don't detect consensus. [[User:Evertype|Evertype]] 19:43, 2004 Aug 21 (UTC)

My name is [https://www.facebook.com/gevorg.s.mkhitaryan Gevorg Mkhitaryan] and I am a representative of [http://www.sarm.am/ National Standardization body of Armenia]. Armenian Eastarn is already included in ISO 639-2 as an individual language. But we would also like to include Armenian Western, Grabar and Middle languages in these series of standards in accordance with language tags hyw, hyg, hym (see your page: http://www.evertype.com/standards/hy/ArmCS-005.html). Could you please give us some information about this procedure. Your help be will highly appreciated.

:: It is your name, Michael, so you can make a decision. One option is not to adopt a name in another language/script. -- [[User:Kaihsu|Kaihsu]] 12:33, 2004 Aug 22 (UTC)

:Thank you in advance.

::: Just leave it up to Michael, may be. People need time to decide a good name for himself as well as his family. :-D -- [[User:Tomchiukc|Tomchiukc]] 09:59, 8 Oct 2004 (UTC)

:Best regards

:I'm very interested in the question, of course. Let's consider my first name first. I see the humour, cleverness, and subtlety in 孙何神 (Traditional 孫何神) ''Sūn Héshén''. Back-translations through the Hebrew! But I don't know how I'd feel answering to "Héshén". ("Hey! Seán!") But I'm wondering if other substitutions could be made. What about 迈刻 (Traditional 邁刻) ''Màikè''? I guess this would mean 'engraved stride' (cf. 刻版 ''kèbàn'' 'to cut blocks for printing', 刻字 ''kèzì'' 'carve characters on a seal'); I like the "engraving" ''kè'' much better than the "gram" ''kè''. And to continue the substitution, a different ''mài'' would seem sensible; what about 麦刻 (Traditional 麥刻) ''Màikè''? I guess this would mean 'engraved wheat' (but cf. the use of 'wheat' phonetically in 麦克凤 ''màikèfēng'' 'microphone', 'mike'); that seems the best of the ''Màikè'' choices, to me. And a big question for me... is it permissible to change the tone? If so, how about 埋刻 (Traditional 埋刻) ''Máikè''? I guess this would mean 'hidden engraving' which reminds me of writing system analysis (cf. 埋头苦干 ''máitóu kǔgàn'' 'to quietly immerse onself in hard work'). But these thoughts are just me playing with the dictionary. What do you think? [[User:Evertype|Evertype]] 19:51, 2004 Oct 8 (UTC)

:Gevorg Mkhitaryan [[Special:Contributions/81.16.3.35|81.16.3.35]] ([[User talk:81.16.3.35|talk]]) 08:02, 30 July 2014 (UTC)

::Actually, it would be pronounced "huh, shun". "hey seán" would be written more like "hei shan". As for "maitou"... that allows for some pretty colourful plays on words.

This is clearly not the correct venue to request changes to ISO standards. See http://www.loc.gov/standards/iso639-2/ but note that these code elements are already included in ISO 639-3, which is good enough for almost everyone. [[User:DougEwell|Doug Ewell]] ([[User talk:DougEwell|talk]]) 23:06, 21 October 2018 (UTC)

:Let me try to put it in a tabular format (fun with Wiki HTML). The questions are: (1) Is it OK to substitute different characters for ''mài'' and ''kè''? (2) Is it OK to change the tone to ''mái''? (3) Are these names "good" with regard to "authority/stuffiness", "friendliness", authenticity, etc.?

{| align=center id=toc style="margin-center: 25px;"

== COI ==

|align=center colspan=5 bgcolor=#ccccff| '''Former candidates for Michael Everson's name in Chinese'''

|-

Edits of these users to this page are subject to COI. Also see, [[Talk:Andrew West (linguist)#COI]]. --[[User:Shervinafshar|Shervinafshar]] ([[User talk:Shervinafshar|talk]]) 21:07, 4 April 2015 (UTC)

| '''Pinyin'''

:I did not see this until today, but evidently the accusation of COI is unwarranted. The Wikipedia rules ([[WP:AB]], [[WP:BLP]]) DO PERMIT subjects of articles to edit articles about themselves—advisedly with care and openness—and there is always a history retained for checking. So long as edits are informative and verifiable, there seems no reason to consider COI. COI would apply to unnecessarily self-serving edits. In the Real World, COI is invoked when e.g. politicians do work which benefits companies in which they have a financial interest (either benefitting from public funding or insider-trading). I don't see much of an analogy here. -- [[User:Evertype|Evertype]]·[[User_talk:Evertype|✆]] 11:56, 24 April 2015 (UTC)

| '''Simplified'''

::Based on today's edits, where this editor is under the impression that edits to the ''article'' are by extension implying ''he made any given previous edit'', and an editorial history of adding details claimed based on his own knowledge, it's clear there is a possible [[WP:COI]] and definite [[WP:V]] problem here. I am therefore re-adding the COI tag. Note that I am not asserting a TONE problem, but there is a ton of uncited biographical detail, and the subject seems intent to drive the content. [[User:DMacks|DMacks]] ([[User talk:DMacks|talk]]) 15:56, 8 August 2018 (UTC)

| '''Traditional'''

| '''"Meaning"'''

:Shervinafshar and DMacks -- it seems a little strange that if you have concerns about Michael Everson's edits, that you never talk to him, but merely about him in the third person... [[User:AnonMoos|AnonMoos]] ([[User talk:AnonMoos|talk]]) 22:13, 10 March 2019 (UTC)

| '''Comment'''

|-

== External links modified ==

| Sūn Màikè

| 孙迈克

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

| 孫邁克

| grandson step able

I have just added archive links to {{plural:2|one external link|2 external links}} on [[Michael Everson]]. Please take a moment to review [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=prev&oldid=698604943 my edit]. If necessary, add {{tlx|cbignore}} after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{tlx|nobots|deny{{=}}InternetArchiveBot}} to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:

| one standard for "Michael" (Not necessarily the best standard for ''Michael''.)

*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20130123110829/http://www.xn--volapk-7ya.com/kadam/Dalebud_Cifala_de_2012-07-01,_Num-_1.html to http://volapük.com/kadam/Dalebud_Cifala_de_2012-07-01,_Num-_1.html

|-

*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20070927214309/http://www.kernowak.com/kernowak-revision-15.pdf to http://www.kernowak.com/kernowak-revision-15.pdf

| Sūn Màikè

| 孙麦克

| 孫麥克

| grandson wheat able

| ''mài'' substituted, cf. 麦克凤 ''màikèfēng'' 'microphone', 'mike' (The best of the ''Sūn Màikè'' names.)

|-

| Sūn Màikè

| 孙麦刻

| 孫麥刻

| grandson wheat carve

| ''kè'' substituted, cf. 刻字 ''kèzì'' 'carve characters on a seal' (Not so bad.)

|-

| Sūn Máikè

| 孙埋刻

| 孫埋刻

| grandson cover carve

| tone changed to ''mái'', cf. 埋头苦干 ''máitóu kǔgàn'' 'to quietly immerse onself in hard work' (Not at all inappropriate...)

|-

|}

[[User:Evertype|Evertype]] 20:35, 2005 Feb 1 (UTC)

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the ''checked'' parameter below to '''true''' to let others know.

==Does Michael Everson have an Irish name?==

A question waiting to be asked, for symmetry of sorts. – [[User:Kaihsu|Kaihsu]] 21:09, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

:Yes, it's '''Michael Everson'''. Irish speakers often use the Irish form of my first name, '''Mícheál''' (vocative '''a Mhichíl'''). '''Everson''' is not an Irish name, and is possibly [[Old English]] '''Eoforssunu''' 'boar's son'. That could be literally gaelicized as '''Mac Toirc''' which is usually anglicized as '''Mac Turk''', a name rarely found in [[County Down|Co. Down]] and originating from [[Galloway]] in [[Scotland]]. One could invent things, like '''Mac Eabhair''' 'ivory's son' or '''Mac Eibhir''' 'granite's son' but those aren't attested Irish names either. [http://ga.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pádraig_Ó_Snodaigh Pádraig Ó Snodaigh], owner of the [http://ga.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coiscéim Coiscéim] publishing house, calls me '''Mac Síorraí''' 'eternal son', a translation playing on 'ever', which is rather [[Peter Pan]]-like. But really, it's '''Michael Everson''' in Irish, gaelicized a bit in '''An tEversonach''' 'Mr Everson'. On my mother's side we know of one Irish name, '''Doran''', which is '''Ó Deoráin'''. [[User:Evertype|Evertype]] 10:18, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

{{sourcecheck|checked=false}}

== Why is Michael Everson important? ==

Cheers.—[[User:Cyberbot II|<sup style="color:green;font-family:Courier">cyberbot II</sup>]]<small><sub style="margin-left:-14.9ex;color:green;font-family:Comic Sans MS">[[User talk:Cyberbot II|<span style="color:green">Talk to my owner</span>]]:Online</sub></small> 04:04, 7 January 2016 (UTC)

In response to the current AfD in progress for this article, I'd like to ask an honest question: Why, exactly, is Michael Everson important? Specifically, in reference to the opening paragraph of the article:

*He's "an expert in the writing systems of the world" ... what, exactly, does that mean? That he can write in many different languages, or that he has won awards related to etymological research, or that he is a translator, or what? The rest of the article doesn't make this clear.

*He's "a linguist, typesetter, and font designer." So what? There are many linguists, typesetters, and font designers in the world. What makes this particular one encyclopedic?

*He's "one of the co-authors of the Unicode Standard." Unicode was developed by the Unicode Consortium, and the article [[Unicode]] says: ''Members include virtually all of the main computer software and hardware companies with any interest in text-processing standards, such as Apple Computer, Microsoft, IBM, Xerox, HP, Adobe Systems and many others.'' Is he an employee of one of these companies, or did he have a more active role in Unicode development; and if so, what exactly?

In short: this article talks about the problems in which the subject "has been active in supporting" or "has been actively involved in" or "has an interest in", but it doesn't go into ''specifics'' about what the level of this involvement is, and as a result the article comes off sounding a lot more like a resumé cover letter. So, why - exactly - is Michael Everson important enough to deserve an entry in an encyclopedia? I'm not saying he ''isn't'', I'm just saying the article doesn't answer this clearly. Don't answer me here - please answer by improving the article's opening paragraph. - [[User:Brian Kendig|Brian Kendig]] 02:55, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

== External links modified (January 2018) ==

:I've never met Michael Everson, but I did interact with him briefly several years ago on the IETF language mailing list. I came to this page after reading on [[Apple_typography#Fonts_in_Mac_OS_X]] that he had done work on OS X fonts. I'll just say that I find Everson's work fascinating and his bio eminently suitable for Wikipedia. Unicode is an incredibly important standard for enabling the world to communicate, and Everson has played an integral role at a number of levels. He's continually consulted on some of the tougher issues, and the whole Klingon thing is quite amusing. I think it's absurd that this page is still flagged for possible deletion and has its neutrality questioned. My only question is who he could have annoyed so much to justify spending the time to create [[User:SayWhatYouMeanAndMeanWhatYouSay]]. --[[User:DanKohn|DanKohn]] 08:44, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

::Unicode is great; I agree with you there, and the [[Unicode]] article does a good job of explaining why. But this [[Michael Everson]] article simply doesn't explain what's important about him. It says he was born in Norristown, it says he's a Buddhist, it says he likes the works of Tolkien... but it doesn't mention any of the rest of why you say he's great: on what "tougher issues" is he "continually consulted"? What "whole Klingon thing"? Why is his work particularly "fascinating"? Please edit the article to remove the unimportant personal details and highlight exactly why you respect the man so much, so that other people can learn to have the same appreciation for him! - [[User:Brian Kendig|Brian Kendig]] 18:00, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

==Co-operation==

Let's go through it with the aim of removing the "autobiography" notice on the top. Cheers. &ndash; [[User:Kaihsu|Kaihsu]] 21:24, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

I have just modified one external link on [[Michael Everson]]. Please take a moment to review [[special:diff/822656494|my edit]]. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit [[User:Cyberpower678/FaQs#InternetArchiveBot|this simple FaQ]] for additional information. I made the following changes:

== Cleaning up and moving forward ==

*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20061012190755/http://www.unescap.org/rural/doc/pai/paivol13no2.pdf to http://www.unescap.org/rural/doc/pai/paivol13no2.pdf

The article having survived its second VfD, I have decided to clean up the talk page by moving all of the previous discussion about whether the page should be here at all to an archive, for simplicity's sake. I see that [[User:SayWhatYouMeanAndMeanWhatYouSay|SayWhatYouMeanAndMeanWhatYouSay]], who proposed the second VfD is now editing the article, and '''''asking <u>me</u> questions directly''''' in the edit summaries. I therefore consider it pretty fair game to take continued interest in the contents of this page, particularly as SayWhatYouMean doesn't appear to actually know ''anything'' about me ''or'' about the work I do; he has from the very beginning said that all I do is "make Unicode fonts", which isn't true, and indeed is not why I am "notable". [[User:Brian Kendig|Brian Kendig]] asked similar questions, and by the gods, I'm going to feel perfectly free to answer them. But first I will note two things. It is '''not against the rules''' for the subject of an article to edit the article.

*Added {{tlx|dead link}} tag to http://portal.unesco.org/ci/admin/ev.php?URL_ID=17490&URL_DO=DO_TOPIC&URL_SECTION=201&reload=110024633

:From [[Wikipedia:Autobiography]]

:"It is difficult to write neutrally about yourself. Therefore, it is considered proper on Wikipedia to let others do the writing. Instead, contribute material or make suggestions on the article's [[Wikipedia:Talk pages|talk page]] and let independent editors write it into the article itself. ''However, in clear-cut cases, it is permissible to edit pages connected to yourself.'' [My italics.] So, you can revert [[Wikipedia:Vandalism|vandalism]]; but of course it has to be ''simple'', obvious vandalism, and not just a content dispute. Similarly, you should feel free to correct mistaken or out-of-date facts about yourself, such as marital status, current employer, place of birth, and so on. However, be prepared that if the fact has different interpretations, others [[WP:BB|will edit it]]."

:From [[WP:BLP|Biographies of living persons]]

:"In some cases the subject may become involved in an article. They may edit it themselves or have a representative of theirs edit it. They may contact Wikipedians either through the article's talk page or via email. Or, they may provide information through press releases, a personal website or blog, or an autobiography. When information supplied by the subject conflicts with unsourced statements in the article, the unsourced statements should be removed. Information supplied by the subject may be added to the article if:

:* It is relevant to the person's notability;

:* It is not contentious;

:* It is not unduly self-serving;

:* It does not involve claims about third parties, or about events not directly related to the subject;

:* There is no reasonable doubt that it was written by the subject.

So, now. We've got people agreeing that the article should be here. We have concerns about verifiability and neutrality. Let's improve the article and get Brian and SayWhatYouMean the answers to their questions. The current spate of edits hasn't been very balanced. I don't mind [[Elves]], but I suspect the insertion of them into the article was driven by whimsy (to ba charitable) rather than by the thought that it might improve the article. [[User:Evertype|Evertype]] 21:55, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

:In light of recent discussions, I am going to remove the "autobiography" notice on the top. Let's now focus on the substantive, not the procedural (which has been dealt with already). &ndash; [[User:Kaihsu|Kaihsu]] 22:19, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

::I just wanted to say that the article has improved immensely today; recent edits have tightened the article's focus, removing irrelevant detail and making it clear why the rest is relevant. Reading the article now, I can see why the subject is not just another linguist and font designer, and in fact is noteworthy in his field. It's become an article worth keeping. - [[User:Brian Kendig|Brian Kendig]] 03:08, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

{{sourcecheck|checked=false|needhelp=}}

Cheers.—[[User:InternetArchiveBot|'''<span style="color:darkgrey;font-family:monospace">InternetArchiveBot</span>''']] <span style="color:green;font-family:Rockwell">([[User talk:InternetArchiveBot|Report bug]])</span> 18:41, 27 January 2018 (UTC)

Actually, Everson, the inclusion of the Elves part gives your bio a bit of a thesis since in your "early life" you get started with Tolkien then you're on a project to include Tolkien typefaces. And actually, I'm a bit confused here, dwarvish and elfish are languages, they're just fictional ones. --[[User:SayWhatYouMeanAndMeanWhatYouSay|SayWhatYouMeanAndMeanWhatYouSay]] 16:24, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

:Quenya and Sindarin are languages. Tengwar and Cirth are not languages, they are scripts. I corrected your error. The text "two other conscripts under consideration are [[Tengwar]] and [[Cirth]], scripts used by [[J.R.R. Tolkien|Tolkien's]] fictional [[Elves]] and [[Dwarves]] respectively." [...]

::[Actually, I found out a whole lot about Tegwar and Cirith in just a few minutes of research. They're both used by both races. I'm suprised you didn't know that.... LOL. -- [[User:SayWhatYouMeanAndMeanWhatYouSay|SayWhatYouMeanAndMeanWhatYouSay]] 18:53, 26 July 2006 (UTC)]

:::You wish. Of course I knew. But the Tengwar are chiefly used by the Elves and the Cirth are chiefly used by the Dwarves. It seems to me that the words "races of' in one of your latest edits is superfluous. And could you please nest replies on the Talk page? It makes it easier for the reader. Better still, don't insert things into people's posts. [[User:Evertype|Evertype]] 20:16, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

:[...] is more accurate than what you have restored, and the text should be reverted for accuracy. In my view, the description of Tolkien's novels as "fantasy novels" to be dismissive in any context (not just the context of this page). They are "heroic romances". I should also mention that "childhood interest" is not an accurate description either as I was not a "child" when I encountered Tolkien.

::[Oh god, who cares! --[[User:SayWhatYouMeanAndMeanWhatYouSay|SayWhatYouMeanAndMeanWhatYouSay]] 18:37, 26 July 2006 (UTC)]

:::Apparently accuracy is appreciated on the Wikipedia. And verifiability. Well, I know when I started reading Tolkien and you don't, so it's not unreasonable for me to inform you that your insertion was inaccurate. [[User:Evertype|Evertype]] 20:16, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

:However this bears on your other summary deletions regarding relevant biographical data, but I shall raise this issue on another occasion. [[User:Evertype|Evertype]] 17:19, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

::(Please do not vandalize what people say on the Talk page. as you did with your inaccurate "sour grapes" edit. Thank you.) [[User:Evertype|Evertype]] 20:16, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

Furthermore, I'm going to have to give you a big fat *nobody cares* with the "whimsy" of the edits. They've been collaborated, checked and balanced. Bad faith/good faith that's your personal opinion and it's all cited, so quit trying to revert it back into your autobiography. --[[User:SayWhatYouMeanAndMeanWhatYouSay|SayWhatYouMeanAndMeanWhatYouSay]] 16:27, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

:Do try to be civil. I did not suggest that [[Elves]] be removed. Regarding the number of authors/editors of the standard, I changed "one of the twelve" to "one of the" because this number is not constant. It was 12 for Unicode 3.0. It was 13 for Unicode 4.0. Unicode 5.0 is about to come out. Saying "one of the editors" is surely sufficient. I know that it is your view that I try to aggrandize my importance with regard to the the other authors, which is why you maintain that the number is relevant. This is your presumption, and has nothing to do with my motivations. Your recent edit "one of the twelve primary" is infelicitous. The Unicode Standard 4.0 used the word "principal" which has a different connotation. [[User:Evertype|Evertype]] 17:19, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

::Fine, we'll go with "one of the editors". --[[User:SayWhatYouMeanAndMeanWhatYouSay|SayWhatYouMeanAndMeanWhatYouSay]] 20:12, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

:::Look, the Unicode Standard has authors and it has editors. It's a cooperative team. Various people are titled "editor", and own various chapters and so on that get handed on to the editor in chief, Julie Allen. I'm not one of those. I work as an author providing text, typically the block descriptions for new scripts, or rewrites of existing ones when necessary. That's why the back of TUS 4.0 says "the principle authors and editors". The title page of TUS 4.0 says "editors". The current text "one of the primary contributing editors" is a bit inaccurate because "contributing editor" is a term used in ISO/IEC JTC1/SC2/WG2 for the ISO/IEC 10646 editing process. Surely "one of the co-authors" is not worse than this?

I believe it's useful to give a scope to the number. He's one of the editors of the Unicode standard... how is a reader to know how many editors are there? Two? Two hundred? Two thousand? How large is the group of which he is a member? - [[User:Brian Kendig|Brian Kendig]] 20:03, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

== Ongoing work ==

=="Probably the world's leading expert"==

* Georgian, 2016: http://georgiatoday.ge/news/5321/INTERVIEW%3A-Michael-Everson-Publisher-and-Owner-of-Evertype <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/31.173.35.205|31.173.35.205]] ([[User talk:31.173.35.205#top|talk]]) 07:13, 6 September 2019 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

"Michael Everson (born January 9, 1963) has been described by Rick McGowan, the vice president of the Unicode Consortium, as "probably the world's leading expert in the computer encoding of scripts""

== Everson Gunn Teoranta ==

Statements like these are simply unecessary and uninformative. Please, stop it with the vanity. [[User:Zombies|Zombies]] 17:24, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

::::Evertype is fighting that one. I actually agree entirely with you that it doesn't belong. If you want, please remove it. I won't because Everson thinks i'm just being "mean". I think this whole article shouldn't exist. i'm the one who was going for the second AfD. If you think its vain and uninformative now, you should have seen it a week ago --[[User:SayWhatYouMeanAndMeanWhatYouSay|SayWhatYouMeanAndMeanWhatYouSay]] 17:46, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

There are several references to a company called "Everson Gunn Teoranta" in the context of Unicode alphabets. The company was dissolved some time ago. Was Michael involved? [[User:Jorge Stolfi|Jorge Stolfi]] ([[User talk:Jorge Stolfi|talk]]) 16:52, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

In my opinion, the "world's leading expert" quote is very good for this article, because it shows that an important person (the vice president of the Unicode Consortium) has high regard for Everson in his field of work. It's not mere vanity; it provides context and credence to the rest of the article - it would be as if [[Steve Jobs]], for example, said that so-and-so is a leading expert in interface design; right there it gives you a clear picture of the person's relevance. If you can think of any better way to open this article while conveying the sense that Everson is a leader in his community, go ahead and edit. - [[User:Brian Kendig|Brian Kendig]] 19:57, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

: [https://unicode.org/mail-arch/unicode-ml/y2001-m09/0289.html this] might have the answer you wanted? --[[User:JMF|𝕁𝕄𝔽]] ([[User talk:JMF|talk]]) 16:57, 23 August 2023 (UTC)