Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/ILNumerics.Net: Difference between revisions
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:''The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this page.''
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The result was '''Keep'''. Also moving article to [[ILNumerics]] to help remove the appearance of advertising. <small>([[Wikipedia:NACD#Non-administrators_closing_discussions|non-admin closure]])</small> — [[User:Jkudlick|Jkudlick]] <sup>[[User_talk:Jkudlick|t]]</sup><small>[[Special:Contributions/Jkudlick|c]]</small><sub>[[User:Jkudlick/sandbox|s]]</sub> 09:18, 1 December 2015 (UTC)
===[[ILNumerics.Net]]===
:{{la|ILNumerics.Net}} – (<includeonly>[[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/ILNumerics.Net|View AfD]]</includeonly><noinclude>[[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Log/2015 November 23#{{anchorencode:ILNumerics.Net}}|View log]]</noinclude>{{int:dot-separator}} <span class="plainlinks">[https://tools.wmflabs.org/jackbot/snottywong/cgi-bin/votecounter.cgi?page=Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/ILNumerics.Net Stats]</span>)
:({{Find sources AFD|ILNumerics.Net}})
<del>The article is unambiguous advertisement.</del> My request for speedy deletion was granted, although the article was restored when one contributor provided the following reasons: "The article exists for 10 years, addresses a technology used by an open source/commercial community of 25.000 users, won several awards". This reason itself sounds like advertisement to me. Also the "10 years" claim is inaccurate. [[User:Codename Lisa|Codename Lisa]] ([[User talk:Codename Lisa|talk]]) 19:52, 23 November 2015 (UTC)
:<small class="delsort-notice">Note: This debate has been included in the [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Software|list of Software-related deletion discussions]]. <span class="smallcaps" style="font-variant:small-caps;">[[User:Northamerica1000|North America]]<sup>[[User talk:Northamerica1000|<
:<small class="delsort-notice">Note: This debate has been included in the [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Computing|list of Computing-related deletion discussions]]. <span class="smallcaps" style="font-variant:small-caps;">[[User:Northamerica1000|North America]]<sup>[[User talk:Northamerica1000|<
:<small class="delsort-notice">Note: This debate has been included in the [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Mathematics|list of Mathematics-related deletion discussions]]. <span class="smallcaps" style="font-variant:small-caps;">[[User:Northamerica1000|North America]]<sup>[[User talk:Northamerica1000|<
* '''Speedy delete''' as unambiguous advertising. Topic does seem borderline notable, though: [https://msdn.microsoft.com/library/hh304368(v=vs.100).aspx this article on MSDN] discusses it and I'm able to verify the [https://web.archive.org/web/20080117112203/http://basta-award.de/basta_award/diegewinner.xhtml award]. [[User:Qwertyus|Q<small>VVERTYVS</small>]] <small>([[User talk:Qwertyus|hm?]])</small> 12:33, 24 November 2015 (UTC)
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:* After reworking the article and adding several references to reliable and independent sources, these references have been deleted by [[User:Qwertyus]] with the reason: "popularity is unsubstantiated; sources are either self-published or affiliated, and don't actually establish popularity". This statement is not true. I will re-add the references<ref>https://www.nuget.org/packages/ILNumerics/</ref><ref>http://stackoverflow.com/questions/tagged/ilnumerics</ref><ref>https://visualstudiogallery.msdn.microsoft.com/9a67b49d-b0b2-4073-97fd-3f18ba08cc61</ref> in order to proof the visibility of the project. <small><span class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Numbers303|Numbers303]] ([[User talk:Numbers303|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Numbers303|contribs]]) 15:34, 24 November 2015 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
:* A list of alternative projects were added in order to make the topic even more neutral and objective. However, the whole section has been deleted for unclear reasons: [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=ILNumerics.Net&diff=next&oldid=692247639 "none of this is reliably sourced by third-party comparisons"]. [[User:Numbers303|Numbers303]] ([[User talk:Numbers303|talk]]) 15:49, 24 November 2015 (UTC)
*'''Delete for now''' as the best I found were some News and browsers links, certainly nothing better for a better article. [[User:SwisterTwister|<
* '''Keep''' To the uninformed Delete voters, it was the first open source quality piece of engineering we took on and that you probably have not seen in performance and made available for free. The firm and project has supported a notable act of furthering good causes, in free grants of 2008 as well as GPL terms beforehand and thereafter. The arguments pointing to commercial nature are dubious at best as the piece of firmware, trackingware and trojanware most of the skeptics, and myself too, carry is commercial in nature too and described on WP. Did you argue to delete them? <small class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/31.223.132.167|31.223.132.167]] ([[User talk:31.223.132.167|talk]]) 23:53, 26 November 2015 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
* '''Delete''' There's many other libraries in this field available as open source. ILnumerics is a commercial product. They will have other ways of advertising. <small><span class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Harbran|Harbran]] ([[User talk:Harbran|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Harbran|contribs]]) 19:01, 26 November 2015 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> <small>— [[User:Harbran|Harbran]] ([[User talk:Harbran|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Harbran|contribs]]) has made [[Wikipedia:Single-purpose account|few or no other edits]] outside this topic. </small>
* '''Keep'''. [[Special:Contributions/91.44.79.238|91.44.79.238]] ([[User talk:91.44.79.238|talk]]) 11:21, 26 November 2015 (UTC) Clearly, ILNumerics is scientifically relevant – there even exists a diploma thesis about it: http://www.researchgate.net/publication/255988828_ILNumerics_-_High_Performance_Computing_With_.NET_-_Enabling_.NET_as_efficient_platform_for_numerical_computations_and_visualizations It belongs to the MATLAB/R family of scientific computation software all present at Wikipedia helping students and researchers all over the world to solve their problems. Deletion would only make it harder for interested people to find and compare the few programs in this area. <small>— [[Special:Contributions/91.44.79.238|91.44.79.238]] ([[User talk:91.44.79.238|talk]]) has made [[Wikipedia:Single-purpose account|few or no other edits]] outside this topic. </small>
* '''Keep'''. I can’t see any advertising in this article <small class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/212.172.128.106|212.172.128.106]] ([[User talk:212.172.128.106|talk]]) 15:02, 27 November 2015 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> <small>— [[Special:Contributions/212.172.128.106|212.172.128.106]] ([[User talk:212.172.128.106|talk]]) has made [[Wikipedia:Single-purpose account|few or no other edits]] outside this topic. </small>
*'''Keep''' as the nomination reason (advertising) has been removed.
**''Disclaimer:'' I created this article in 2008. I also started the ILNumerics project and also participated in the founding of the related company in 2013. So I am biased, obviously.
**''Commercial:'' The fact, that a commercial entity is now supporting the project is not a reason to bann a topic from WP. (I do understand if some are angry for not receiving the same support for the free version anymore, though. But I don’t assume it relates to the topic here ...)
**''Advertising:'' if there was any in the article it has been completely removed. Btw: we did not edit the page for ages. We ''don’t'' see WP as marketing platform and will not change this perspective. Its less than 1% of our visitors coming from WP, btw.
**''Notability:'' [[WP:Notability_(organizations_and_companies)]] From the guide: „Notable means ...[that the] product has attracted the notice of reliable sources unrelated to the organization or product.“ This applies to all of: article<ref> https://msdn.microsoft.com/library/hh304368%28v=vs.100%29.aspx#hghg</ref> on [[Microsoft_Developer_Network|MSDN]], another one<ref> http://www.hanselman.com/blog/GeneratingComplexMathVisualizationsInSVGUsingCAndILNumerics.aspx</ref> by [[Scott Hanselman]], ILNumerics was the cover story([[WP:AUD]])<ref> https://entwickler.de/windows-developer-magazin/dot-net-magazin-12-08-118599.html</ref> of the DOT.NET Magazin<ref>https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows.developer</ref> 02/08, several reviews<ref> http://www.infoq.com/news/2014/05/ILNumerics</ref><ref> https://channel9.msdn.com/coding4fun/blog/Mastering-your-Net-Math-needs-with-ILNumerics </ref><ref>http://www.kdnuggets.com/2013/07/ilnumerics-high-performance-math-library-csharp-net.html</ref><ref>http://www.automatedtrader.net/articles/software-review/137332/software-review-ilnumerics-_-faster-numbers</ref><ref>http://insidebigdata.com/2014/01/21/ilnumerics-high-performance-math-library-c/</ref>, and there has been this award (10k EUR, best of DACH area)<ref>https://web.archive.org/web/20080117112203/http://basta-award.de/basta_award/diegewinner.xhtml</ref>. Download numbers of the GPL version mirrors as posted by [[Numbers303]] are verifiable on their respective (reliable, unrelated) sites. Together with codeplex<ref>http://ilnumericsnet.codeplex.com</ref> and sourceforge <ref>http://sourceforge.net/projects/ilnumericsnet/</ref> they sum up to ~10k something. (Internal numbers are not publicly verifiable, hence not counted here.)
**''Nomination proccess:'' Both, the speedy deletion request and the speedy deletion itself are questionable here. See the proposed procedure [[WP:ARTSPAM]]: „Blatant examples of advertising masquerading as articles can be speedily deleted.... Before trying to get an advertisement masquerading as an article deleted, please check the article's history to see if an acceptable revision exists there. If so, please revert to the latest acceptable version of the article.“ (There must be one from the past 7 years since its creation?) From [[WP:corp]]:
***"Clean up per [[Wikipedia:NPOV]],
***Erase remaining advertising content from the article,
***Delete the article by listing it at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion ''if no notable content remains.''" But after removing any pot. promotional content<ref>https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=ILNumerics.Net&oldid=691972256</ref> clearly notable content remains. So a deletion is not justified. [[User:Phonologue|Phonologue]] ([[User talk:Phonologue|talk]]) 20:24, 27 November 2015 (UTC)
** We should consider renaming / relinking the article to: "ILNumerics" instead of "ILNumerics.Net".[[User:Phonologue|Phonologue]] ([[User talk:Phonologue|talk]]) 08:50, 30 November 2015 (UTC)
*'''Note''' I have reverted the nom's withdrawal on the grounds that there are delete !votes. <span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS; font-variant:caps;">[[User:Kharkiv07|<span style="color:black">Kharkiv07</span>]] ([[User talk:Kharkiv07|<span style="color: black">T</span>]])</span> 22:57, 30 November 2015 (UTC)
:*Hi. The guideline governing withdrawal is [[WP:SNOW]]: There is not a snowball's chance in hell that this article may be deleted now. The least you could was to contact me and ask me to change my closure to a "[[WP:NAC|NAC]] keep". Best regards, [[User:Codename Lisa|Codename Lisa]] ([[User talk:Codename Lisa|talk]]) 05:42, 1 December 2015 (UTC)
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:''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this page.'' <!--Template:Afd bottom--></div>
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