Talk:Reggae: Difference between revisions

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Ska and rocksteady are actually the precursors to reggae. Can they really be qualified as sub-genres?
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:Hi, I asked myself the very same question when I first put the box together. See here: [[Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Music_genres]] for my question about this. The thing is though, I think the box is about reggae in its broadest sense, and in that sense Ska and Rocksteady are a type of reggae music. I asked myself, when I'm filing my music, where do Ska and Rocksteady go? In my collection, they go in amongst all the other Reggae records. Do feel free to change this though - I'm still unsure about this myself --[[User:Bwmodular|Bwmodular]] 14:47, 6 Apr 2004 (UTC)
 
== Clean up ==
I'm pretty new to wiki, and I am defender of the ska, but hey, most people associate ska & rocksteady as being a form of reggae. In retrospect, I say let it stand, because if you go to [[Ska]], it does say that it was the origin of reggae. I'm not familiar enough with [[Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Music_genres]], so it has given me something new to learn --[[User:Isol8d|Isol8d]] 08:48, 7 Apr 2004
 
This article's wealth of information is a bit disorganized at the moment. I'm taking a stab at organizing what's here without adding or changing the material. Some tasks that need addressing:
There are two meanings of the word ''reggae'', one being essentially a synonym for [[Jamaican music]], and the other referring to a specific genre that evolved out of ska and rocksteady. Since there's already an article on Jamaican music in general, the first paragraph should make it clear how the word is used and then focus on the more specific term, IMO. [[User:TUF-KAT|Tuf-Kat]] 16:28, Apr 7, 2004 (UTC)
* Putting things in a more chronological order
:Whenever I get the chance, I will make this change unless someone convinces me not to. Another question: Is the piano really typical in reggae? Doesn't strike me as being very common at all, but I may be out of touch... [[User:TUF-KAT|Tuf-Kat]] 05:13, Apr 8, 2004 (UTC)
* Removing instances of repeated information
* Checking for consistency in style
* Formatting the lede and moving inline citations to the article's body
Please list any other tasks of this nature here. Perhaps we can even get the article up to GA status. [[User:Morganfitzp|Morganfitzp]] ([[User talk:Morganfitzp|talk]]) 14:51, 28 May 2019 (UTC)
 
==Earliest reggae record==
: I've moved Ska and Rocksteady from the sub-genres section of the info box to the influences section. However, I've left them in the genres section of the box which appears at the bottom of the all the Reggae genre pages - I think in that context it still makes sense to have them linked along with the other genres, even if they're not reggae in the strictest sense of the word.
The claim in the article that "The Pioneers' 1968 track "Long Shot (Bus' Me Bet)" has been identified as the earliest recorded example of the new rhythm sound that became known as reggae" is only made by one person, Mick Sleeper ([http://www.upsetter.net/scratch/about.htm]), and he no longer makes that claim in the same article: [http://www.upsetter.net/scratch/biography.htm]. Yet that claim has been copied from Wikipedia by at least two books: [https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=wDSanYFJRZ0C&pg=PT24&dq=The+Pioneers%27+1968+track+%22Long+Shot+(Bus%27+Me+Bet)%22&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiK-6WdzMriAhUpRhUIHU8qC18Q6AEIKjAA#v=onepage&q=The%20Pioneers'%201968%20track%20%22Long%20Shot%20(Bus'%20Me%20Bet)%22&f=false], [https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=10rEGSIItjgC&pg=PA1198&dq=The+Pioneers%27+1968+track+%22Long+Shot+(Bus%27+Me+Bet)%22&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiK-6WdzMriAhUpRhUIHU8qC18Q6AEIPTAE#v=onepage&q=The%20Pioneers'%201968%20track%20%22Long%20Shot%20(Bus'%20Me%20Bet)%22&f=false]. We need to be very careful when making such claims that there is a wide acceptance, or the source needs to be very authoritative; and even then we don't state it as a fact in the voice of Wikipedia, but make clear that only one person says it. We're now in a position where books we might use as reliable sources to confirm the truth have taken that "fact" straight from Wikipedia (without even changing the words much), while the original (dubious?) source - a self published site run as a hobby which is by its own admission "long on enthusiasm and short on facts", has withdrawn the claim. It may well be true, but at the moment it's an opinion that isn't supported, and an opinion that the originator himself no longer believes in. I'm removing it until a better source can be found (other than Wikipedia mirrors). [[User:SilkTork|SilkTork]] ([[User talk:SilkTork|talk]]) 10:45, 2 June 2019 (UTC)
:Re. Piano - well, maybe it would be better to replace both piano and organ with the more generic 'keyboards' as there are plenty of albums with Piano, Electric Piano, Organ, Clavinet, Synths, etc, but the Wiki page for musical keyboards really doesn't convey what would be needed here. It's unusual for a reggae album not to have keyboards of some sort, but I've removed Piano for now, as you're right - organ is really the keyboard sound one most associated with reggae. --[[User:Bwmodular|Bwmodular]] 10:25, 8 Apr 2004 (UTC)
:[[The Pioneers (band)|The Pioneers]]' 1968 track "Long Shot (Bus' Me Bet)" has been identified as the earliest recorded example of the new rhythm sound that became known as reggae.<ref>{{cite web |url=http://www.upsetter.net/scratch/biography01.htm |title=Shocks of Mighty: An Upsetting Biography |website=Upsetter.net |date=1936-03-20 |accessdate=2013-06-18 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20120728130952/http://www.upsetter.net/scratch/biography01.htm |archive-date=2012-07-28 |dead-url=yes |df= }}</ref>
{{reflist-talk}}
 
== Cod reggae? ==
re: Piano - Look no further than the classic album '''Double Barrel'''... yeah, keyboards would make more sense, as they play the offbeat with the guitar....[[User:Isol8d|Isol8d]] 10:57, 8 Apr 2004
 
I've recently seen the term "cod reggae" in a few other Wikipedia articles, but not in this one. This seems to be "imitation reggae". It would be useful if there were a brief explanation of the term someone in Wikipedia. Is it enough to warrant a separate article? Or might it be better as a short, anchored section in this article? [[User:Feline Hymnic|Feline Hymnic]] ([[User talk:Feline Hymnic|talk]]) 21:46, 3 December 2019 (UTC)
Keyboards: the piano off beat "bang" is very important, frequently played with the guitar, but lower in the mix. As well as playing riffs, keyboard players help define whether the tune is rocksteady, ska by accenting high-hat beats. A dry "pop" noise is played quickly twice on the 2nd and 4th beat for ska, but a hammond organ "stab" is played on the 3rd beat of the bar for rocksteady. email sue-keys@hotmail.com
:"Cod" in this context simply means "inauthentic". I agree that the term "cod reggae" is used, usually to describe white rock bands attempting to play the music, and perhaps should be mentioned in this article - not a separate article - if good sources for its use can be found. [[User:Ghmyrtle|Ghmyrtle]] ([[User talk:Ghmyrtle|talk]]) 07:03, 4 December 2019 (UTC)
::Thanks. I've added a short section at the end of the article, using a Guardian article as a source. [[User:Feline Hymnic|Feline Hymnic]] ([[User talk:Feline Hymnic|talk]]) 22:19, 7 December 2019 (UTC)
 
== Reggae FestivalsSka ==
 
Does anyone here think Ska is a genre of Reggae? <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/2601:C7:C201:C640:D5B6:50B1:EBB3:570F|2601:C7:C201:C640:D5B6:50B1:EBB3:570F]] ([[User talk:2601:C7:C201:C640:D5B6:50B1:EBB3:570F#top|talk]]) 03:02, 18 June 2021 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
Reggae Sunsplash has not been held for a few years now. The festival is defunct. It has been replaced by Reggae Sumfest, which is held in Montego Bay, Jamaica each year. The website is www.reggaesumfest.com
:Ska pre-dates reggae, so can't be a sub-genre of it. [[User:Ghmyrtle|Ghmyrtle]] ([[User talk:Ghmyrtle|talk]]) 08:15, 18 June 2021 (UTC)
::Is reggae a subgenre of ska? <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/2601:C7:C201:C640:D5B6:50B1:EBB3:570F|2601:C7:C201:C640:D5B6:50B1:EBB3:570F]] ([[User talk:2601:C7:C201:C640:D5B6:50B1:EBB3:570F#top|talk]]) 16:36, 18 June 2021 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
:::No. Please get over your obsession with genres and subgenres. [[User:Ghmyrtle|Ghmyrtle]] ([[User talk:Ghmyrtle|talk]]) 16:50, 18 June 2021 (UTC)
 
== HomophobiaUNESCO inworld reggae musictreasure? ==
 
Sorry if this is mentioned in the article, although skimming over the introduction where I think it should possibly be mentioned, UNESCO deeming it a global treasure: https://www.npr.org/2018/11/29/671996688/unesco-designates-reggae-as-intangible-cultural-heritage
what about homophobia in reggae music and - inspired by reggae and rastafari - queerbashing and murder (esp. in Jamaica)?
[[User:Dudanotak|Dudanotak]] ([[User talk:Dudanotak|talk]]) 07:32, 29 July 2025 (UTC)
 
: By all means write something up about this - either start a new page, or add to existing ones where appropriate. There is a less positive side of Jamaican music which should be acknowledged - homophobia, misogyny, gun culture have all been features of some artists' work, and how many jamaican artists have been murdered? Go ahead and write an article about this if you feel inspired to do so.--[[User:Bwmodular|Bwmodular]] 15:17, 21 Jul 2004 (UTC)
 
[http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,,1263245,00.html Police seek Jamaican singer after armed attack on gay men]
 
[http://www.outinamerica.com/home/news.asp?articleid=6573 Sports Giant Threatens Antigay Reggae Singers]
 
[http://uk.gay.com/headlines/6710 Puma threatens sponsorship withdrawal over anti-gay reggae row]
 
[http://www.365gay.com/newscon04/08/081604beenie.htm Police Begin Criminal Probe Of Beenie Man, Three Other Anti-Gay Singers]
 
:I think you'll find that Reggae's often homophobic lyrics are a result of the homophobic culture in jamaica, not the other way around. Don't beleive everythying Peter Thatchell tells you. [[User:Birdseed|Birdseed]] 19:22, 2004 Sep 24 (UTC)
 
::I think this article is the only appropriate place for any mention of homophobia in reggae music. It is NOT required on EVERY popular reggae artists page and I will continue to delete the contributions of those who seek to grind their particular axe anywhere but this page. --[[User:Scientz|Scientz]]
 
:::I think it's worth pointing out that at least one Reggae artist, [[Judge Dread]], was never homophobic in his records (not with typical Jamaican intensity and venom), and did include comic homosexual references in the British music-hall tradition.
:::[[User:Nuttyskin|Nuttyskin]] 05:24, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
 
== Closely realted to... ==
 
Rastafarianism? Surely not. A small minority of Reggae artists have been rastafarians. [[User:Birdseed|Birdseed]] 19:24, 2004 Sep 24 (UTC)
 
You what? I totally disagree. Its like saying that gospel has got nothing to do with Christianity, [[User:SqueakBox|SqueakBox]] 14:51, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
 
:[[User:Birdseed|Birdseed]] didn't say ''it had nothing to do with it'', but that it was of relatively minor importance. I agree, not Rasta ''per se''; however, the broad brush of its cultural influence cannot be underestimated. [[Marcus Garvey]] was a Jamaican, remember.
:[[User:Nuttyskin|Nuttyskin]] 05:28, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
 
== Origins of the word Reggae ==
 
Since it seems to be a fairly new word, I'd assume we'd know where it came from etymologically. However, there is no mention of it in the [[Reggae]] article. Can someone amend it with that information please?
 
Answer- Some Ska band had a song called "Do the Reggay," and it was a Reggae-sounding song, and that's where the term came from.
 
That was a song by [[Toots & The Maytals]], released in 1968. It even has its own wiki article: [[Do the Reggay]] --[[User:Jakup r|Jakup r]] 09:28, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
 
In the 3rd edition of the ''Rough Guide to Reggae'', [[Lerry Marshall]] is interviewed about his musical style, and makes mention of the word "reggae" in conjunction with the word "ragged." Whether or not this bears any influence on the origin of the word is unspecific, though it is not entirely implausible, as reggae music reflects a poor Jamaica.
 
== "th" and "dh" sounds ==
 
Isn't it standard in reggae music to change "th" and "dh" sounds to "t" and "d"? I believe this is even used in rhymes sometimes.
 
:I wouldn't say it's a standard in reggae music, but it's a feature of [[Jamaican Creole]]. [[User:Teklund|Teklund]] 13:03, 29 August 2005 (UTC)
 
== Ranking? ==
 
What does "Ranking" mean, as in "Ranking Ann", or "Ranking Joe"? Is it similar to "Ranks" as in "Shabba Ranks"? It looks like a lot of performers/DJs, etc., used to call themselves "Ranking" something, then it stopped. Any reason why?
 
:It's short for 'high ranking'. It has military connnotations and probably derives from street gangs and rudeboy culture where it would be used to describe criminals ' ie. 'ranking gunman'. Cheers [[User:Will Lakeman|illWill]] 10:22, 29 August 2005 (UTC)
 
Also the ranking within a dancehall competition. Top ranking will be the winner, hence the Bob Marley song, [[User:SqueakBox|SqueakBox]] 14:04, August 29, 2005 (UTC)
 
== Skinhead Reggae ==
 
Suggestion. Add chapter about traditional skinheads and their favorite artists like Laurel Aitken, Desmond Dekker, Judge Dread, Symarip/Pyramids, The Pioneers, Dice The Boss etc. Describe skinhead reggae as another related genre like rocksteady.
 
Links to read: [http://www.trojanrecords.net Trojan Records] [http://www.trojanrecords.net/articles/symarip/sleevenotes.htm Symarip] [http://oioioi.ru/links/rocksteady.html Reggae] [http://oioioi.ru/links/ska.html Ska] [http://oioioi.ru/mp3/skinhead/moonstomp.html?english MP3 samples]
 
==Nov. 20 Edit==
This did not fit in the edit summary, so I'm puting it here: Copyedits, wikilinks, removed external links to websites of a personal nature, non-english language websites, websites with no informative content or no information of general interest to the subject matter, and removed one POVish paragraph (the one about the king and prince of Reggae / [[User:Ezeu|Ezeu]] 19:58, 20 November 2005 (UTC)
 
== Generic radio stations ==
 
The article claims that no generic radio station plays reggae. This is clearly not true, as plenty of radio stations around the world often play reggae. Is this some US-centric thing? [[User talk:Zocky|Zocky]] | [[User:Zocky/Picture Popups|picture popups]] 14:24, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
 
Well spotted and removed. Unfortunatrely many especially new US editors labour under the illusion that this a US encyclopedia whereas nothing could be further from ther truth. It is an international encyclopedia with a strong US bias that needs lots of volunteers to counteract, [[User:SqueakBox|SqueakBox]] 14:53, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
 
 
== Homophobia ==
I removedthat quotation from village voice that asserted that homophobia, sexism and misogyny "blight almost all current reggae." These things are present in some modern dancehall, but "almost all current reggae"!? That's a hugely exaggerated, unqualified statement.
 
==Catch a fire==
Good day to all. I believe that the section regarding the album cover art of Catch a Fire: ''"...was first issued primarily for its novelty. That the album cover was issued at all indicates some difference in society's views at the time, and such an album cover would never be issued by a major record label today."'' is nothing but the authors opinion and should be removed. It's a Wikiworld out there.
 
So go edit. [[User:TV Genius|TV Genius]] 22:35, 2 August 2006 (UTC)